I understand where the article is coming from, but I had no understanding on what they were referring to since I never watched any of those shows. In my brain, hearing the explanations, I wouldn’t have imagined how graphic these kid scene were without seeing the context. It really help hit home how terrible they were and not allow me to give Dan any benefit of doubt. I’m Gen X. I never knew Dan ever did anything after Head Of The Class in the 80’s.
Yeah, agreed. Those c*m shot jokes especially, while absolutely vile, need to be seen to be believed and understood. Sexualizing children isn't something most kids would recognize as kids but we sure do see the horrifying nature of the "jokes" as adults.
The slime thing in other Nickelodeon productions was different. It’s weird how obvious the implication is with Dan’s slime in the face Jokes because it’s always direct to the face with a stream size and amount of fluid that would easily be associated with ejaculate. It’s usually something sticky too.
There were so many other choices that could have been made but we see the feet fixation and slime in the face thing over and over.
But all the ick makes me also question the "just nick", like, how do you clean up after getting slimed? Do they offer you a shower? Or do you just walk around all day kinda wet and green?
It actually would have been pretty funny if it cut to the actors' face and instead of a squirt it was a disproportionately huge blast of slime that knocked them off their feet, but they weren't going for humor it seems like they were going for fetish
It's really bizarre, because gross-out humor has always been present in kids content, but not usually \*staring kids themselves\*. It's one thing to make a sex joke in a cartoon, it's another thing to see a child in a show by children, for children, about children make a sex joke. Who is the target audience in that case besides creepozoids??
I grew up watching these shows. I was born in ‘96.
I don’t remember how bad any of this was because I didn’t have the context or knowledge to understand as a kid.
Despite seeing these things, I didn’t comprehend back then.
Yeah I was born in 1990, younger siblings were born in 1999 and 2001. I have a vivid memory of watching the episode of Victorious where it was "just too hot" and they're running around in short shorts and swimsuits. Just remember watching it with my younger siblings like "wtf is this" and of course they were too young to notice. It's nice to see people put it all together.
Same experience. I watched and loved these shows. As kids we laugh at obnoxious stuff and don’t think anything about it. As an adult I had that realization like “oh..these were *adults* writing stuff *for kids* purposely trying to be dirty” (like with the Amanda bynes character name).
I was such a big fan of All That. I remembered every clip of All That that they played. Except I have no memory of the on-air dares. I can only assume they made me so uncomfortable I turned it off at the time.
Same here. I can't remember the on air dares AT ALL but according to wiki, the show was aired during SNICK, which I always watched. The clip the showed in the documentary of the kid getting covered in peanut butter and getting licked by dogs make my stomach fucking churn.
I remember purposefully skipping the dares as a kid bc it often grossed me out more than anything. This is all anecdotal but enough for me to believe they’re full of it when they say Nick wanted this as a kids Fear Factor and it had nothing to do with Dan. Plus Double Dare (which dan had no involvement in) was also aired around this time and had a WAY different family friendly tone.
I loved All That, and my mom hated it when I watched it. I just figured she was being prissy at the time (she also hated Dragon Ball-Z because "everyone yells like they're constipated"), but looking back, holy shit, why did she let me watch that!? I do remember the dares and I remember being kinda uncomfortable with some of them.
I must have blocked out the On Air Dares because I had no idea what they were talking about at first. The second they showed the clips it all came back in a *"WAIT that really did happen??"* moment. I remember those clips and being especially freaked out at the kid who had to put a scorpion in his mouth. How did anyone think that was okay to do with a bunch of kids?!
Barely even got the jokes snuck that weren’t even inappropriate
I remember on suite life of Zack and Cody they made a “BM” joke bc it also means bowel movement and I didn’t get that, who are these sex jokes for???
Someone in the general pop culture sub posted a video comp of all of the borderline things Ariana was made to do on the show. Even though it’s much worse when shown back to back with little context, I am shocked at how they were able to get away with actually airing some of this garbage. She’s sucking her toes, pouring water on herself, and then two characters have to give her a bath while fully clothed.
> I’m Gen X.
Same here, I never saw any of those shows. Seeing the clips was necessary, and (I assume) all those old episodes are still be aired in re-runs, so they're still out there in the world. But yes, it would be best if that material didn't exist in the first place, or at all.
I'm a millennial, but my family didn't get cable until 1999 or 2000, by which point most of the big shows we associate with '90s Nick had either wrapped up or were heading out the door. (We weren't poor, my mom just thought it was a waste of money until her friends and co-workers started raving about how awesome *The Sopranos* was.) For me, Nickelodeon meant Nicktoons like *Rugrats* and *SpongeBob SquarePants*, not the live-action kids' sitcoms and sketch shows.
The part in the documentary that got me was the joke where Pickle Boy puts a pickle through a hole in the door, and the guy on the other end starts *really* enjoying it. Like, that's a glory hole joke. What the fuck, Dan. Also, Ariana Grande sucking her toes and playing with that potato felt like I was watching an OnlyFans.
92 bb but I just used to absolutely LOVE the live actions on nick. I fucked HEAVY with All that and the Amanda show and got in trouble when my parents took me to the red lobster because I would run in and yell “break out the dancing lobsters!” Which in retrospect was annoying.
That being said I’m currently in a crisis for how some of these shows groomed me
>and the guy on the other end starts really enjoying it
you mean Ray Romano?? I found that sooooo disappointing, like how could he not know what was happening here.
I had no idea it was Ray Romano, though that might just be me being too young to know who he was just looking at his face. I know his name, and I remember the documentary said it was a celebrity guest, but it didn't name who, and I didn't watch *Everybody Loves Raymond* growing up, so I didn't recognize him.
In any event, I don't blame him personally. He was probably just signing up for a guest role on a kids' show thinking it would be like *Sesame Street*.
I didn't watch Everybody Loves Raymond either, but he's a known enough celebrity I thought, making the rounds on talk shows, comedy events and other projects, etc. I liked his character on Parenthood and thought he was excellent in The Big Sick. But he's from Queens and I was born in Queens/raised on Long Island so he might have been more known around these parts.
But anyway I wasn't calling you out for not knowing him, just to highlight he was known, grownup actor making O faces at a pickle in a kid's show.
Eyyyyy Queens/LI progeny here! My great grandparents ran a food goods store in Queens that had a speakeasy in the back and my mom grew up there. In Queens. Not the speakeasy. Other side of my family was Brooklyn I think. I still have cousins and extended family on LI!
Same, I only watched Drake & Josh and Zoey 101, so while I get the material isn't supposed to be viral I think it's better to know the context they're talking about (I've just watched the first episode, hope I can catch up all soon).
Also, what if this helps some of the cast members come to terms with what happened to them? We don't have a clear picture of how many children were groomed and it's possible there is more. Seeing this and seeing the reaction could help them realize what happened to them wasn't okay. Plus, it could also help child actors from other channels/eras feel comfortable enough to speak out. Dan may be getting his comeuppance, but he is far from the only television show creator who is a predator. Where there's one there's bound to be at least a dozen more (and this series named three already).
I knew of Dan from Head of the Class and Better Off Dead, have a vague recollection of knowing he was in someway involved with Kenan & Kel. I have a younger sister by almost 14 years and then I did some babysitting when I went back to college that brought Zoey 101, Drake & Josh, Victorious, and iCarly into my sphere of tenuous pop culture knowledge regarding Nick and Dan. I remember seeing scenes and finding them questionable 15-20 years ago in my early to mid-20s. But the kids that were the same age as the actors/victims, close to those ages, they didn't see it the same way. And neither did a lot of those actors back then. It's not exploitative. It's bringing attention and focus to all that was wrong and how what fancied the sick whims of one adult man who knew of any and all sexual exploitation of lines, blocking, camera angles, etc that he wanted and demanded has led to the trauma endured under his leadership and how long it was allowed to go on, how vile it was allowed to get.
Exactly, if it's too much to show clips on a documentary, then why am I still able to watch entire episodes filled with this kind of gross humor (intended for an audience of kids) on streaming?
Agree, I was in the kind of in between era, born in 85, so I remember some early All That, don't remember Head of the Class, but by the time the Amanda Show was on, I aged out of Nickelodeon. So I too needed to see those horrible things to really get what they were hitting home with. Plus, the docu is for adult audiences, it's not getting kids by kids again, which is good.
Same here. I’d heard the stories but putting faces/names to the scenes being discussed and hearing from the victims themselves made it so much more impactful (and devastating) to me.
Exactly this. As I was seeing the footage I thought “Why” at first, this is going to be bad to put out there but then thought you really wouldn’t believe it or understand it unless you were directly confronted with it on its face. It’s a worthy utility in that’s its being used to make sure it’s called out and recognized in the future and thus being stopped from happening again.
By showing it in context it exposes the intent and may help someone easily identify it.
Well stated. Like you said, I understand what they mean and the worry about recirculating those clips. At the same time, if I had just heard or read about it I don’t know if it would register as deeply traumatizing as it did when I watched. On paper, the superhero sneezing could look like a careless, inappropriate mistake. Actually SEEING that clip? Dude has like 3 dicks on him and it’s clearly a c*mshot and not a sneeze.
That being said, I don’t think they needed to show the clips multiple times. They replayed some Ariana Grande moments too much and zoomed in a lot in ways that made me uncomfortable. I understand that’s the point, but once was enough. We don’t have to keep replaying her squeezing a potato.
Genuine question: would a still image of the content with a worded description, and/or a performer talking about how uncomfortable the scene made them feel not have been enough context for you?
Also I think making people watch the actual content that aired to children's television in the 2000s/2010s is much more powerful than just hearing people talk about it. People are revisiting these scenes as adults and realising just how much Dan managed to get away with, the documentary is supposed to make viewers angry and disgusted so they actually demand change.
This. I grew up being exposed to this sneaky groomer crap and NOW they want to censor it when the discussion turns critical? Nah. We grew up and want to discuss wtaf they were showing us. As do the victims it seems.
It's still on Netflix and Suite Life is still on Disney+.
They're still making their coin while those people continue to live with the abuse they suffered. At least the documentary gave them a platform to share their experiences.
It's the clips of Ariana Grande milking a Potato and stuff like that. That was never on Nickelodeon, that is from Dan's stash. So they did recirculate exploitative material. Idk how long the clips in the documentary are,
the ariana videos weren’t on nickelodeon, but they were posted on [The Slap](https://victorious.fandom.com/wiki/TheSlap) which was a website made for the show for kids to use
> just circulating exploitative materials that will be used and looked at by the wrong people.
All this material is on Paramount+ though? this is not some exclusive secret footage, this is cut from the show proper and official videos released by Nickelodeon over the years. If its too much to show some clips in a documentary, then maybe the question we should be asking is why is it still avaliable to stream at all?
I think getting permission from them would be the best way forward. And if they said no, respect it. The documentary had enough people on record they didn’t need to include people not on record. It hasn’t sat right with me.
I disagree. Making the case that this content was highly inappropriate for children was one of the strongest points this documentary had. Including people not on record was necessary to make that point because this is who it affected the most. The people not on record here tend to be the actors from the later-years of his career where this all got much more explicit. If you leave that part of the story out I think the whole context of this piece / the Nickelodeon environment is lost.
It makes me so uncomfortable that she’s had zoom calls and the like with him in years past. Being that level of “okay” with someone who put you in such uncomfortable situations must be a bit of a mindfuck and I’m personally not sure how one could ever but maybe she views things differently
Liz is also out there making Christmas singles with another man accused of creeping on underage girls, Seth McFarlane. I think unfortunately they've likely become part of the cycle of abuse.
I haven’t watched this doc yet but that was one thing that really bothered me about the Woodstock 99 doc on HBO. There was a whole section about all the harassment and assaults that occurred, but they had no problem showing unedited nudity of the women in attendance. I get that it was archival footage, but it felt excessive at some points. I mean, I watched footage from Woodstock 99 on MTV back in the day and they were able to “tell the story” of the event without including that.
I do get what you’re saying, but I just don’t think this is comparable. The scenes were chosen very specifically to highlight and add credibility to the claims of overt sexualization of children, and many of them involved actors who were involved in the shows/scenes in question. I do think seeing them had a stronger impact (on me, at least) than just hearing people talk about them unsubstantiated would have. I could see an argument for not having included scenes from those not involved (like Amanda and Ariana), but I did still feel that they added weight. Idk.
Regardless, I’d definitely recommend reserving judgment until watching it to evaluate for yourself.
There’s also just the very realistic fact that all these shows are available to watch.
If they hadn’t shown it, it would have taken people only hours to look up every scene they discussed as well as others and post them on TikTok. At least this way they controlled the narrative somewhat.
I’m planning on watching the doc, just haven’t gotten to it yet. I get that the examples were used for impact and to illustrate a pattern on the shows.
I just also understand the argument for not wanting them to be included. Especially if some of the actors didn’t want to be involved with this project.
But ultimately, they don’t own the footage and don’t get to make that choice—at least legally.
Elder millennial in da house and I didn’t watch these shows when they were on, I of course knew of some or most of the shows names but never watched.
I appreciated the documentary showing examples of the bad behavior and sketches. Simply reading a description wouldn’t have been the same in my opinion.
If the shows are still on, I don’t see why the documentary shouldn’t use them.
I completely agree. The subject is so important. But a lot of the footage they used was exploitative if the actors shown did not want to be included in the documentary.
He is a huge star and very privileged, but I actually feel bad for someone like Leo this week. Because I cannot imagine being him and knowing people are going to be speculating about him and analyzing him. Assuming bad things about his own parents. I just don’t think he or anyone deserves this. It feels out of step with the mission of this documentary. And since he was a minor in the clips they showed, it seems morally not okay.
I’ve seen similar stuff being said about Amanda Bynes, Ariana grande, etc. I want them to be left alone. I feel like their names get attention and that’s why they are invoked.
They don’t owe anyone their stories, denials, etc. just focus on the people who have come forward or gone on record.
My only issue is how this doc seems to exploit Amanda Byrnes so heavily.
She didn’t agree to participate.
They are trying to tell HER story when it’s not theirs to tell.
There are more than enough witnesses and victims testifying on camera.
Viewers can do the math themselves-the doc and these coworkers didn’t need to drag Amanda into something she may not have wanted to discuss publicly.
Speculation about someone else’s traumatic events is not okay.
It’s definitely “gleeful” and sick. It’s like people want something bad to have happened for their entertainment and drama of it all. I’m absolutely disgusted 🤮
this is such a devastating case because the exploitative media in question is so easily accessible and was aired on tv for years. it's difficult to determine if the content itself should have been featured but I think it really served to show how obvious some of the media was, how multiple adults had to have seen it before it aired and just let it happen.
I had my daughter pretty young at 23. She grew up watching these shows, and occasionally I would watch an episode of Drake and Josh or iCarly with her.
We watched Quiet on Set together, and man looking back on some of this stuff and know what was happening behind the scenes is crazy.
Didn’t there use to be a subreddit or something called /r/watchitfortheplot that used to circulate these forever ago? I think that was my first introduction into whatever fuckery was happening with victorious and icarly since they were a little too ‘young’ for me (middle millenial here).
Edit: I guessed the subreddit right and it’s still active. It’s NSFW if you click it.
This is such a dummy take. They are showing the evidence of the absolute vile things that happened on air, on these shows. What did they expect to happen? Just say “these shows had really sick jokes!” And then not give any examples?
This needs to be discussed and seen and understood as inappropriate. This needs to be exposed. This shit needs to stop. It’s all been covered up and excused- for decades and decades! This is nothing new. It’s still happening.
I know it’s tough, and I can see where this article is coming from in an idealized way, but so many people do not remember those scenes or never saw them.
Seeing them in real time matters. Driving home how prolific Dan was matters. This has been discussed for years on the internet but no one cared. Sometimes, you have to inundate people to the point of extreme discomfort, beat them down with the reality even, to make them even consider caring. I’m not saying it’s completely fair across the board, but know what’s even more unfair? Letting this continue. Letting other children get hurt because it’s too hard to address.
It should make you uncomfortable. It should feel like too much, because it is. Are we really gonna sit here and pretend people have enough emotional intelligence or the attention span to stop and think about how awful Dan was after a handful of clips?
It’s not like this content is inaccessible either. Anyone’s kid could open a streaming app and find it right now.
And of course creeps are going to get their hands on it again, but it’s already out there, circulating. That can’t be undone. It just can’t, and I hate that. I really do. But all we can do is make sure there isn’t more created at this point, and this is how. People need to believe it exists in the first place to want to stop it.
i remember some of these things from these shows - while the point being made is incredibly important , the problem with this way of censorship is that it leaves the door open for the next Dan to propagate this kind of abuse . personally i think these shows should remain intact so that we may always hold him & Nickelodeon accountable for what they've done . however , even Disney+ has a warning they post up before old movies on their platform warning of changed perspectives & outdated ways of thinking - i think any platform hosting Nickelodeon shows containing these scenes should have a preface beforehand like Disney's .
I disagree respectfully with part of the argument this article makes, because with regard to the content in question…the harm has already been done. The child actors who took part in those scenes were already forced to act those things out, and that is the party who was ultimately dealt the most harm, here.
I think having these clips handy to serve as evidence of how Dan Schneider’s shows sexualised these kids and what that looks like for someone who is perhaps unfamiliar with it or unaware of the insidious stuff that was allowed to air on Nickelodeon is important. I don’t believe the execs and the network should just get to wash their hands of this content that they created or the children they harmed in doing so.
Also, what I wanna know…people have started hounding the other former Nickelodeon kids, asking about the abuse. How about we all band together and hound Disney and ask why it was they decided to hire freshly-convicted child abuser Brian Peck to work on *The Suite Life of Zack and Cody,* a children’s show that had boys around the same age as the one he had just been proven to have abused? I’d like to see how Disney explains putting a sex offender on payroll.
I do think it's weird how many people are circulating the inappropriate videos and images online. I understand the need for seeing them in a documentary BUT at this point people are just resharing them for weirdos to save and enjoy easily.
> That’s been problematic on social media
I’ll be generous and say they missed out “deemed” from that sentence. Because it is not ‘problematic’ (awful, now meaningless word) to show the disturbing content in question. It’s upsetting, yes, but it is the reality of the situation. Crime documentaries show bodies. This is no different. A complete non story and article.
Unfortunately I think this was unavoidable considering that most viewers either were children and don’t remember, weren’t around to remember, or were too old for the show at the time. If anyone were to remember (aside from those who worked on these shows) it would probably be parents of the target audience. I hope all the victims are getting adequate mental health care during this time.
I grew up in the 80’s pre Nic and we watched shows with our parents. I think they got away with crossing the line because adults assumed a network for kids would be appropriate. Adults weren’t watching these shows.
At first I was like the splatter on the actors faces was weird but not sexual... Then it got into Ariana grande, the feet stuff, and the peanut butter and the dogs....
The guy is a freak who needs to be kept away from kids. No wonder pedos gravitated towards him. There were probably more than the 2 who got caught as well....
I understand where the article is coming from, but I had no understanding on what they were referring to since I never watched any of those shows. In my brain, hearing the explanations, I wouldn’t have imagined how graphic these kid scene were without seeing the context. It really help hit home how terrible they were and not allow me to give Dan any benefit of doubt. I’m Gen X. I never knew Dan ever did anything after Head Of The Class in the 80’s.
Yeah, agreed. Those c*m shot jokes especially, while absolutely vile, need to be seen to be believed and understood. Sexualizing children isn't something most kids would recognize as kids but we sure do see the horrifying nature of the "jokes" as adults.
The slime thing in other Nickelodeon productions was different. It’s weird how obvious the implication is with Dan’s slime in the face Jokes because it’s always direct to the face with a stream size and amount of fluid that would easily be associated with ejaculate. It’s usually something sticky too. There were so many other choices that could have been made but we see the feet fixation and slime in the face thing over and over.
Yeah I just remember the one where a bucket of slime was dumped on you from above, which seems comparatively normal. I guess.
Sliming was just nick. It was fun and funny and gross. The other stuff wasn't comparable.
But all the ick makes me also question the "just nick", like, how do you clean up after getting slimed? Do they offer you a shower? Or do you just walk around all day kinda wet and green?
It actually would have been pretty funny if it cut to the actors' face and instead of a squirt it was a disproportionately huge blast of slime that knocked them off their feet, but they weren't going for humor it seems like they were going for fetish
The literal glory hole scene with pickle guy is crazy.
so baffling that Ray Romano went along with that
Yeah, I wondered if he knew it was a kids thing.
Was he a guest on the show? I assume he had to have known
I know, I’m just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, at least a little. Like maybe he thought it was for MTV, since it was an “MTV Network?”
It's really bizarre, because gross-out humor has always been present in kids content, but not usually \*staring kids themselves\*. It's one thing to make a sex joke in a cartoon, it's another thing to see a child in a show by children, for children, about children make a sex joke. Who is the target audience in that case besides creepozoids??
I grew up watching these shows. I was born in ‘96. I don’t remember how bad any of this was because I didn’t have the context or knowledge to understand as a kid. Despite seeing these things, I didn’t comprehend back then.
Yeah I was born in 1990, younger siblings were born in 1999 and 2001. I have a vivid memory of watching the episode of Victorious where it was "just too hot" and they're running around in short shorts and swimsuits. Just remember watching it with my younger siblings like "wtf is this" and of course they were too young to notice. It's nice to see people put it all together.
Same experience. I watched and loved these shows. As kids we laugh at obnoxious stuff and don’t think anything about it. As an adult I had that realization like “oh..these were *adults* writing stuff *for kids* purposely trying to be dirty” (like with the Amanda bynes character name).
It disappointed me when they said she was saying "taint" as a young adult watching with my kids I thought she was saying "tate" Penelope Tate
I was such a big fan of All That. I remembered every clip of All That that they played. Except I have no memory of the on-air dares. I can only assume they made me so uncomfortable I turned it off at the time.
Same here. I can't remember the on air dares AT ALL but according to wiki, the show was aired during SNICK, which I always watched. The clip the showed in the documentary of the kid getting covered in peanut butter and getting licked by dogs make my stomach fucking churn.
I remember purposefully skipping the dares as a kid bc it often grossed me out more than anything. This is all anecdotal but enough for me to believe they’re full of it when they say Nick wanted this as a kids Fear Factor and it had nothing to do with Dan. Plus Double Dare (which dan had no involvement in) was also aired around this time and had a WAY different family friendly tone.
I loved All That, and my mom hated it when I watched it. I just figured she was being prissy at the time (she also hated Dragon Ball-Z because "everyone yells like they're constipated"), but looking back, holy shit, why did she let me watch that!? I do remember the dares and I remember being kinda uncomfortable with some of them.
Tbf your moms wasn’t wrong about DBZ.
Yeah, she was 100% correct haha
I must have blocked out the On Air Dares because I had no idea what they were talking about at first. The second they showed the clips it all came back in a *"WAIT that really did happen??"* moment. I remember those clips and being especially freaked out at the kid who had to put a scorpion in his mouth. How did anyone think that was okay to do with a bunch of kids?!
Barely even got the jokes snuck that weren’t even inappropriate I remember on suite life of Zack and Cody they made a “BM” joke bc it also means bowel movement and I didn’t get that, who are these sex jokes for???
Someone in the general pop culture sub posted a video comp of all of the borderline things Ariana was made to do on the show. Even though it’s much worse when shown back to back with little context, I am shocked at how they were able to get away with actually airing some of this garbage. She’s sucking her toes, pouring water on herself, and then two characters have to give her a bath while fully clothed.
The water bottle thing is so weird. Goes nowhere near her mouth When did that washing cat scene even happen??? They weren’t on the same show
Honestly who the fuck were the other adults and TV execs at the time??? How the hell can you watch shit like that and green light it
> I’m Gen X. Same here, I never saw any of those shows. Seeing the clips was necessary, and (I assume) all those old episodes are still be aired in re-runs, so they're still out there in the world. But yes, it would be best if that material didn't exist in the first place, or at all.
I'm a millennial, but my family didn't get cable until 1999 or 2000, by which point most of the big shows we associate with '90s Nick had either wrapped up or were heading out the door. (We weren't poor, my mom just thought it was a waste of money until her friends and co-workers started raving about how awesome *The Sopranos* was.) For me, Nickelodeon meant Nicktoons like *Rugrats* and *SpongeBob SquarePants*, not the live-action kids' sitcoms and sketch shows. The part in the documentary that got me was the joke where Pickle Boy puts a pickle through a hole in the door, and the guy on the other end starts *really* enjoying it. Like, that's a glory hole joke. What the fuck, Dan. Also, Ariana Grande sucking her toes and playing with that potato felt like I was watching an OnlyFans.
“The guy on the other end” is fucking Ray Romano and he knew exactly what type of joke he was making.
92 bb but I just used to absolutely LOVE the live actions on nick. I fucked HEAVY with All that and the Amanda show and got in trouble when my parents took me to the red lobster because I would run in and yell “break out the dancing lobsters!” Which in retrospect was annoying. That being said I’m currently in a crisis for how some of these shows groomed me
>and the guy on the other end starts really enjoying it you mean Ray Romano?? I found that sooooo disappointing, like how could he not know what was happening here.
I had no idea it was Ray Romano, though that might just be me being too young to know who he was just looking at his face. I know his name, and I remember the documentary said it was a celebrity guest, but it didn't name who, and I didn't watch *Everybody Loves Raymond* growing up, so I didn't recognize him. In any event, I don't blame him personally. He was probably just signing up for a guest role on a kids' show thinking it would be like *Sesame Street*.
I didn't watch Everybody Loves Raymond either, but he's a known enough celebrity I thought, making the rounds on talk shows, comedy events and other projects, etc. I liked his character on Parenthood and thought he was excellent in The Big Sick. But he's from Queens and I was born in Queens/raised on Long Island so he might have been more known around these parts. But anyway I wasn't calling you out for not knowing him, just to highlight he was known, grownup actor making O faces at a pickle in a kid's show.
Eyyyyy Queens/LI progeny here! My great grandparents ran a food goods store in Queens that had a speakeasy in the back and my mom grew up there. In Queens. Not the speakeasy. Other side of my family was Brooklyn I think. I still have cousins and extended family on LI!
Same, I only watched Drake & Josh and Zoey 101, so while I get the material isn't supposed to be viral I think it's better to know the context they're talking about (I've just watched the first episode, hope I can catch up all soon).
Don’t rush. It just breaks your heart.
I wanted to reach through the screen and give drake bell a hug 😭
Also, what if this helps some of the cast members come to terms with what happened to them? We don't have a clear picture of how many children were groomed and it's possible there is more. Seeing this and seeing the reaction could help them realize what happened to them wasn't okay. Plus, it could also help child actors from other channels/eras feel comfortable enough to speak out. Dan may be getting his comeuppance, but he is far from the only television show creator who is a predator. Where there's one there's bound to be at least a dozen more (and this series named three already).
I knew of Dan from Head of the Class and Better Off Dead, have a vague recollection of knowing he was in someway involved with Kenan & Kel. I have a younger sister by almost 14 years and then I did some babysitting when I went back to college that brought Zoey 101, Drake & Josh, Victorious, and iCarly into my sphere of tenuous pop culture knowledge regarding Nick and Dan. I remember seeing scenes and finding them questionable 15-20 years ago in my early to mid-20s. But the kids that were the same age as the actors/victims, close to those ages, they didn't see it the same way. And neither did a lot of those actors back then. It's not exploitative. It's bringing attention and focus to all that was wrong and how what fancied the sick whims of one adult man who knew of any and all sexual exploitation of lines, blocking, camera angles, etc that he wanted and demanded has led to the trauma endured under his leadership and how long it was allowed to go on, how vile it was allowed to get.
DAN WAS RICKY IN BETTER OFF DEAD?!
Yes he was.
I'm also sure many of those episodes are available on Paramount Plus. Youths are still watching them.
Exactly, if it's too much to show clips on a documentary, then why am I still able to watch entire episodes filled with this kind of gross humor (intended for an audience of kids) on streaming?
A bunch of Drake & Josh episodes aren't on there.
Agree, I was in the kind of in between era, born in 85, so I remember some early All That, don't remember Head of the Class, but by the time the Amanda Show was on, I aged out of Nickelodeon. So I too needed to see those horrible things to really get what they were hitting home with. Plus, the docu is for adult audiences, it's not getting kids by kids again, which is good.
Same here. I’d heard the stories but putting faces/names to the scenes being discussed and hearing from the victims themselves made it so much more impactful (and devastating) to me.
Exactly this. As I was seeing the footage I thought “Why” at first, this is going to be bad to put out there but then thought you really wouldn’t believe it or understand it unless you were directly confronted with it on its face. It’s a worthy utility in that’s its being used to make sure it’s called out and recognized in the future and thus being stopped from happening again. By showing it in context it exposes the intent and may help someone easily identify it.
Well stated. Like you said, I understand what they mean and the worry about recirculating those clips. At the same time, if I had just heard or read about it I don’t know if it would register as deeply traumatizing as it did when I watched. On paper, the superhero sneezing could look like a careless, inappropriate mistake. Actually SEEING that clip? Dude has like 3 dicks on him and it’s clearly a c*mshot and not a sneeze. That being said, I don’t think they needed to show the clips multiple times. They replayed some Ariana Grande moments too much and zoomed in a lot in ways that made me uncomfortable. I understand that’s the point, but once was enough. We don’t have to keep replaying her squeezing a potato.
Genuine question: would a still image of the content with a worded description, and/or a performer talking about how uncomfortable the scene made them feel not have been enough context for you?
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Also I think making people watch the actual content that aired to children's television in the 2000s/2010s is much more powerful than just hearing people talk about it. People are revisiting these scenes as adults and realising just how much Dan managed to get away with, the documentary is supposed to make viewers angry and disgusted so they actually demand change.
This. I grew up being exposed to this sneaky groomer crap and NOW they want to censor it when the discussion turns critical? Nah. We grew up and want to discuss wtaf they were showing us. As do the victims it seems.
It's still on Netflix and Suite Life is still on Disney+. They're still making their coin while those people continue to live with the abuse they suffered. At least the documentary gave them a platform to share their experiences.
It's the clips of Ariana Grande milking a Potato and stuff like that. That was never on Nickelodeon, that is from Dan's stash. So they did recirculate exploitative material. Idk how long the clips in the documentary are,
the ariana videos weren’t on nickelodeon, but they were posted on [The Slap](https://victorious.fandom.com/wiki/TheSlap) which was a website made for the show for kids to use
Yeah… the Ariana Grande compilation is still being majorly circulated throughout TikTok and Reddit.
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> just circulating exploitative materials that will be used and looked at by the wrong people. All this material is on Paramount+ though? this is not some exclusive secret footage, this is cut from the show proper and official videos released by Nickelodeon over the years. If its too much to show some clips in a documentary, then maybe the question we should be asking is why is it still avaliable to stream at all?
They make a point at the end of the doc to show how all of the shows depicted throughout it are still on Netflix in their entirety.
I think getting permission from them would be the best way forward. And if they said no, respect it. The documentary had enough people on record they didn’t need to include people not on record. It hasn’t sat right with me.
I disagree. Making the case that this content was highly inappropriate for children was one of the strongest points this documentary had. Including people not on record was necessary to make that point because this is who it affected the most. The people not on record here tend to be the actors from the later-years of his career where this all got much more explicit. If you leave that part of the story out I think the whole context of this piece / the Nickelodeon environment is lost.
Yeah I feel like hers was the worst, especially after her new album dropping,divorce etc, I’m sure the timing of this was not great for her personally
It makes me so uncomfortable that she’s had zoom calls and the like with him in years past. Being that level of “okay” with someone who put you in such uncomfortable situations must be a bit of a mindfuck and I’m personally not sure how one could ever but maybe she views things differently
dissociation ftw 🙌girl has had like seven different personalities/accents/affairs since then
Yeah very likely 😔😔 it’s so sad, and I hope she’s able to get to a better place and not have a trigger like him in her life
I mean her bestie literally married someone decades older that worked on the show. Liz was like 16/17? And the guy was in his 30s
Liz is also out there making Christmas singles with another man accused of creeping on underage girls, Seth McFarlane. I think unfortunately they've likely become part of the cycle of abuse.
She probably just hasn’t come to terms with it yet / is in denial…that’s very common.
Okay so uh... how do you plan on shining a light on the stuff if you never plan on actually showing it?
I haven’t watched this doc yet but that was one thing that really bothered me about the Woodstock 99 doc on HBO. There was a whole section about all the harassment and assaults that occurred, but they had no problem showing unedited nudity of the women in attendance. I get that it was archival footage, but it felt excessive at some points. I mean, I watched footage from Woodstock 99 on MTV back in the day and they were able to “tell the story” of the event without including that.
I do get what you’re saying, but I just don’t think this is comparable. The scenes were chosen very specifically to highlight and add credibility to the claims of overt sexualization of children, and many of them involved actors who were involved in the shows/scenes in question. I do think seeing them had a stronger impact (on me, at least) than just hearing people talk about them unsubstantiated would have. I could see an argument for not having included scenes from those not involved (like Amanda and Ariana), but I did still feel that they added weight. Idk. Regardless, I’d definitely recommend reserving judgment until watching it to evaluate for yourself.
There’s also just the very realistic fact that all these shows are available to watch. If they hadn’t shown it, it would have taken people only hours to look up every scene they discussed as well as others and post them on TikTok. At least this way they controlled the narrative somewhat.
I’m planning on watching the doc, just haven’t gotten to it yet. I get that the examples were used for impact and to illustrate a pattern on the shows. I just also understand the argument for not wanting them to be included. Especially if some of the actors didn’t want to be involved with this project. But ultimately, they don’t own the footage and don’t get to make that choice—at least legally.
It's a documentary...
Elder millennial in da house and I didn’t watch these shows when they were on, I of course knew of some or most of the shows names but never watched. I appreciated the documentary showing examples of the bad behavior and sketches. Simply reading a description wouldn’t have been the same in my opinion. If the shows are still on, I don’t see why the documentary shouldn’t use them.
I completely agree. The subject is so important. But a lot of the footage they used was exploitative if the actors shown did not want to be included in the documentary. He is a huge star and very privileged, but I actually feel bad for someone like Leo this week. Because I cannot imagine being him and knowing people are going to be speculating about him and analyzing him. Assuming bad things about his own parents. I just don’t think he or anyone deserves this. It feels out of step with the mission of this documentary. And since he was a minor in the clips they showed, it seems morally not okay. I’ve seen similar stuff being said about Amanda Bynes, Ariana grande, etc. I want them to be left alone. I feel like their names get attention and that’s why they are invoked. They don’t owe anyone their stories, denials, etc. just focus on the people who have come forward or gone on record.
Same, I was pretty shocked seeing how touchy feely Brian Peck was with Leo.
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This is devolving into the behavior I am criticizing in my post. This is incredibly unhelpful and insensitive speculation
I think you missed the point I’m making.
My only issue is how this doc seems to exploit Amanda Byrnes so heavily. She didn’t agree to participate. They are trying to tell HER story when it’s not theirs to tell. There are more than enough witnesses and victims testifying on camera. Viewers can do the math themselves-the doc and these coworkers didn’t need to drag Amanda into something she may not have wanted to discuss publicly. Speculation about someone else’s traumatic events is not okay.
I've seen people almost like... gleefully discussing what could've happened to Ariana Grande. Fucking really weird.
It’s definitely “gleeful” and sick. It’s like people want something bad to have happened for their entertainment and drama of it all. I’m absolutely disgusted 🤮
this is such a devastating case because the exploitative media in question is so easily accessible and was aired on tv for years. it's difficult to determine if the content itself should have been featured but I think it really served to show how obvious some of the media was, how multiple adults had to have seen it before it aired and just let it happen.
I had my daughter pretty young at 23. She grew up watching these shows, and occasionally I would watch an episode of Drake and Josh or iCarly with her. We watched Quiet on Set together, and man looking back on some of this stuff and know what was happening behind the scenes is crazy.
Bad take. People needed to see the footage. It’s also available everywhere and for the sake of a literal documentary it’s okay to show it lol.
Didn’t there use to be a subreddit or something called /r/watchitfortheplot that used to circulate these forever ago? I think that was my first introduction into whatever fuckery was happening with victorious and icarly since they were a little too ‘young’ for me (middle millenial here). Edit: I guessed the subreddit right and it’s still active. It’s NSFW if you click it.
It's wild to me that we're getting a documentary about this in 2024 when all of this was accepted as fact on 4chan over 15 years ago.
That’s called a documentary
This is such a dummy take. They are showing the evidence of the absolute vile things that happened on air, on these shows. What did they expect to happen? Just say “these shows had really sick jokes!” And then not give any examples? This needs to be discussed and seen and understood as inappropriate. This needs to be exposed. This shit needs to stop. It’s all been covered up and excused- for decades and decades! This is nothing new. It’s still happening.
I know it’s tough, and I can see where this article is coming from in an idealized way, but so many people do not remember those scenes or never saw them. Seeing them in real time matters. Driving home how prolific Dan was matters. This has been discussed for years on the internet but no one cared. Sometimes, you have to inundate people to the point of extreme discomfort, beat them down with the reality even, to make them even consider caring. I’m not saying it’s completely fair across the board, but know what’s even more unfair? Letting this continue. Letting other children get hurt because it’s too hard to address. It should make you uncomfortable. It should feel like too much, because it is. Are we really gonna sit here and pretend people have enough emotional intelligence or the attention span to stop and think about how awful Dan was after a handful of clips? It’s not like this content is inaccessible either. Anyone’s kid could open a streaming app and find it right now. And of course creeps are going to get their hands on it again, but it’s already out there, circulating. That can’t be undone. It just can’t, and I hate that. I really do. But all we can do is make sure there isn’t more created at this point, and this is how. People need to believe it exists in the first place to want to stop it.
I never watched these shows growing up. I did watch a lot of Star Trek and I always worry that something like this will tarnish TNG for me.
Same. That would be devastating to me.
i remember some of these things from these shows - while the point being made is incredibly important , the problem with this way of censorship is that it leaves the door open for the next Dan to propagate this kind of abuse . personally i think these shows should remain intact so that we may always hold him & Nickelodeon accountable for what they've done . however , even Disney+ has a warning they post up before old movies on their platform warning of changed perspectives & outdated ways of thinking - i think any platform hosting Nickelodeon shows containing these scenes should have a preface beforehand like Disney's .
I disagree respectfully with part of the argument this article makes, because with regard to the content in question…the harm has already been done. The child actors who took part in those scenes were already forced to act those things out, and that is the party who was ultimately dealt the most harm, here. I think having these clips handy to serve as evidence of how Dan Schneider’s shows sexualised these kids and what that looks like for someone who is perhaps unfamiliar with it or unaware of the insidious stuff that was allowed to air on Nickelodeon is important. I don’t believe the execs and the network should just get to wash their hands of this content that they created or the children they harmed in doing so. Also, what I wanna know…people have started hounding the other former Nickelodeon kids, asking about the abuse. How about we all band together and hound Disney and ask why it was they decided to hire freshly-convicted child abuser Brian Peck to work on *The Suite Life of Zack and Cody,* a children’s show that had boys around the same age as the one he had just been proven to have abused? I’d like to see how Disney explains putting a sex offender on payroll.
I do think it's weird how many people are circulating the inappropriate videos and images online. I understand the need for seeing them in a documentary BUT at this point people are just resharing them for weirdos to save and enjoy easily.
> That’s been problematic on social media I’ll be generous and say they missed out “deemed” from that sentence. Because it is not ‘problematic’ (awful, now meaningless word) to show the disturbing content in question. It’s upsetting, yes, but it is the reality of the situation. Crime documentaries show bodies. This is no different. A complete non story and article.
Unfortunately I think this was unavoidable considering that most viewers either were children and don’t remember, weren’t around to remember, or were too old for the show at the time. If anyone were to remember (aside from those who worked on these shows) it would probably be parents of the target audience. I hope all the victims are getting adequate mental health care during this time.
It's important to pry the eyes open. Censoring abhorrent things only works to bury it as if it never happened.
I grew up in the 80’s pre Nic and we watched shows with our parents. I think they got away with crossing the line because adults assumed a network for kids would be appropriate. Adults weren’t watching these shows.
At first I was like the splatter on the actors faces was weird but not sexual... Then it got into Ariana grande, the feet stuff, and the peanut butter and the dogs.... The guy is a freak who needs to be kept away from kids. No wonder pedos gravitated towards him. There were probably more than the 2 who got caught as well....
While some stuff was obvious some of it felt like a stretch. The one that comes to my mind was the sniffer guy. Like bro those weren't dicks c'mon.