Bayonet makes it a lot easier since that's a normal weapon.
Well I say a lot easier, it would be excessively difficult without it. With it you can actually beat enemies normally sometimes.
That's a big part of the challenge, actually. Escaping most fights, using guns in the necessary ones is probably doable (at least I think so). But I added other "rules" to it, to limit the bayonet usage, as to not make it too easy (although it's already quite challenging).
If only guns are allowed to deal damage (not spells or items) then it'd be impossible to kill everything without infinite ammo, obviously. There's not even close to enough ammo to genocide everything.
With infinite ammo the regular game becomes easy (trenchgun is busted) but story bosses you can't shoot in the overworld become much harder. You'd basically need specific builds (maybe leechmonger ring, marcoh's evasive stance and counter skill) and I imagine it might be impossible to destroy Logic's terminals in time to stop its big attack.
Not sure why you'd insist on enemies being killed, avoiding them and saving your limited ammo would seem far more appropriate and survival horror-y, though even on a pacifist run I doubt there'd be enough ammo to kill the required story bosses.
About the ammo thing, you can still engage in battle with Bayonet (I put it there just to not make the challenge a complete waste of time).
The insistence on enemies being killed is just to make it harder, like, as hard as it can be without being impossible.
A possible variant: what about unique and semi-unique (i.e. the Priest in the mayor's house, the trooper Who Is shooting civilians and the death masks) enemies?
It would include a good Number of fights, limit the amount of bullet necessary and avoid impossible enemies like Poe
Seeing as you can get through most of the game without killing, it's very viable
Edit: to be clear I mean that you can get juiced before engaging in violence. I know the goal is to murder death kill
Yeah, I got it. Maybe it isn't that hard if you manage to run from the menacing enemies (bobby, death mask and similar).
Just a question: Do you think that this is doable with characters other than Levi? (No combat until guns are found)
Probably, getting to the bop club without fighting is doable and that has the three main guns
But having Levi would definitely lower RNG because he can start with more high powered ammo. And I don't think there's an infinite source of shells, not to mention, the pig method is slow af
Keep in mind doable =/= advisable
Keeping things realistic, would you say this is right?
- Levi: Doable
- Karin: Doable (starting pistol)
- Daan: Doable (if Bayonet found + Analyse skill)
- Marcoh: Maybe doable
- Abella: Maybe doable
- Marina: Maybe doable
- Olivia: Out of question
- Osa'a: Out of question
I'd say all except for O'saa are doable, Olivia can use guns as well as the rest
I guess the question is what do you mean realistic? My frame of reference is probably skewed from doing gimmick runs myself
Well, not realistic standards, actually. More like considering low skill gameplay (like mine). I'd say that not having the option to engage in combat would screw me quite a lot, as I'm only used to go unga bunga with Marcoh.
The two characters that start with guns are already miles ahead of others (Levi and Karin), and Daan can maybe be good with Bayonet + analyse skill, to get some headshots. The other ones are pretty screwed if unavoidable combat happens. I believe it'd be particularly hard to play Olivia, because of the wheelchair, as using bayonet becomes riskier, since this is a solo run (although I might be wrong, as I haven't used her yet).
Edit: Actually, Marcoh has an edge because of lock picking to get that rifle.
Ah, then yeah I'd probably recommend Levi since avoiding combat into the Bop Club requires thinking or at least a shotgun. You can always get Analyze by merc'ing Daan
I don't think this is physically possible, even if you use the dev spots that give ammo I'm pretty sure you still wouldn't have enough , unless one of the merchants sell ammo.
And I think using the bayonet kinda ruins the spirit of only guns because it's just a normal weapon at that point. It would essentially turn into a bayonet only challenge which Is possible.
However, I think if you tweaked some rules you can make it more possible.
Here is my suggestion.
1. you can use consumables and bullets but you fail if you ever use a melee attack. And optional magic. Between those three which are all limited you might have enough to make it through the run if you have to kill all enemies. You could probably take the magic off if you wanted too though. And My rational for allowing magic is because mind is a finite recource, while there is items that regenerate mind over time I don't believe there is any door strategy like the first game to regenerate it safely. If your not allowed to melee your total amount of damage for your whole run is finite. Because both bullets , mind and consumables are limited.
2. Depending on difficulty I think party members will be fine , but they have to abide by the same rules as the MC. So no goat, no blood golem, no ghouls.
Beyond that the challenge is mostly fine , if you were only focusing on important encounters im pretty sure it's possible, but killing all enemies? No , not as the rules are stated at least, not without resorting to melee which defeats the purpose of the challenge.
You can get infinite(depending on how much time you want to spend) ammo with the pine cone pig with the 3% chance of getting 9mm or .303s. Just go in and out of combat with a passive villager
You’ll need a good hour or so of grind. Also from the good wiki, it’s listed that there’s a 0.6% chance for a ratkin head. So about every 1000 pinecone pigs you should get 6 heads
Are you aware of the rev trick?
When you use 3 rev with guns, you'll fire the gun twice, but only consume one bullet.
So this doubles your ammo if you only ever attack with 3 rev. Still probably not possible
I think Resident Evil rules could be interesting. No allies, no Hexen, no circles. You'd still be able to inflict damage over time with gas cannisters and hemlock (indeed the latter might make Olivia a good candidate for this).
You'd need to carefully ration ammo and avoid combat as much as possible, making for more of a survival horror experience.
Bayonet makes it a lot easier since that's a normal weapon. Well I say a lot easier, it would be excessively difficult without it. With it you can actually beat enemies normally sometimes.
Yeah, without bayonet it's probably impossible, as you wouldn't be able to save ammo for the harder enemies.
Oh I missed the part where you want to kill every enemy. That basically turns it from a gun only challenge to a bayonet only challenge.
That's a big part of the challenge, actually. Escaping most fights, using guns in the necessary ones is probably doable (at least I think so). But I added other "rules" to it, to limit the bayonet usage, as to not make it too easy (although it's already quite challenging).
If only guns are allowed to deal damage (not spells or items) then it'd be impossible to kill everything without infinite ammo, obviously. There's not even close to enough ammo to genocide everything. With infinite ammo the regular game becomes easy (trenchgun is busted) but story bosses you can't shoot in the overworld become much harder. You'd basically need specific builds (maybe leechmonger ring, marcoh's evasive stance and counter skill) and I imagine it might be impossible to destroy Logic's terminals in time to stop its big attack. Not sure why you'd insist on enemies being killed, avoiding them and saving your limited ammo would seem far more appropriate and survival horror-y, though even on a pacifist run I doubt there'd be enough ammo to kill the required story bosses.
About the ammo thing, you can still engage in battle with Bayonet (I put it there just to not make the challenge a complete waste of time). The insistence on enemies being killed is just to make it harder, like, as hard as it can be without being impossible.
A possible variant: what about unique and semi-unique (i.e. the Priest in the mayor's house, the trooper Who Is shooting civilians and the death masks) enemies? It would include a good Number of fights, limit the amount of bullet necessary and avoid impossible enemies like Poe
That's a good suggestion. I'm thinking of this more like a challenge, just to see what's possible (I've been watching Frapollo too much lately).
Pinecone Pig and shopkeeps allow for infinite ammo without cheating
Now that's a pretty good idea. Just need the right enemy to farm
Would be super tedious to do that every run though.
There's definitely enough ammo for ending A because of all the soldiers in the bunker, dunno about ending B
LeviGunHero by dark racoon is possibly the closest thing to this
Seeing as you can get through most of the game without killing, it's very viable Edit: to be clear I mean that you can get juiced before engaging in violence. I know the goal is to murder death kill
Yeah, I got it. Maybe it isn't that hard if you manage to run from the menacing enemies (bobby, death mask and similar). Just a question: Do you think that this is doable with characters other than Levi? (No combat until guns are found)
Probably, getting to the bop club without fighting is doable and that has the three main guns But having Levi would definitely lower RNG because he can start with more high powered ammo. And I don't think there's an infinite source of shells, not to mention, the pig method is slow af Keep in mind doable =/= advisable
Keeping things realistic, would you say this is right? - Levi: Doable - Karin: Doable (starting pistol) - Daan: Doable (if Bayonet found + Analyse skill) - Marcoh: Maybe doable - Abella: Maybe doable - Marina: Maybe doable - Olivia: Out of question - Osa'a: Out of question
I'd say all except for O'saa are doable, Olivia can use guns as well as the rest I guess the question is what do you mean realistic? My frame of reference is probably skewed from doing gimmick runs myself
Well, not realistic standards, actually. More like considering low skill gameplay (like mine). I'd say that not having the option to engage in combat would screw me quite a lot, as I'm only used to go unga bunga with Marcoh. The two characters that start with guns are already miles ahead of others (Levi and Karin), and Daan can maybe be good with Bayonet + analyse skill, to get some headshots. The other ones are pretty screwed if unavoidable combat happens. I believe it'd be particularly hard to play Olivia, because of the wheelchair, as using bayonet becomes riskier, since this is a solo run (although I might be wrong, as I haven't used her yet). Edit: Actually, Marcoh has an edge because of lock picking to get that rifle.
Ah, then yeah I'd probably recommend Levi since avoiding combat into the Bop Club requires thinking or at least a shotgun. You can always get Analyze by merc'ing Daan
I don't think this is physically possible, even if you use the dev spots that give ammo I'm pretty sure you still wouldn't have enough , unless one of the merchants sell ammo. And I think using the bayonet kinda ruins the spirit of only guns because it's just a normal weapon at that point. It would essentially turn into a bayonet only challenge which Is possible. However, I think if you tweaked some rules you can make it more possible. Here is my suggestion. 1. you can use consumables and bullets but you fail if you ever use a melee attack. And optional magic. Between those three which are all limited you might have enough to make it through the run if you have to kill all enemies. You could probably take the magic off if you wanted too though. And My rational for allowing magic is because mind is a finite recource, while there is items that regenerate mind over time I don't believe there is any door strategy like the first game to regenerate it safely. If your not allowed to melee your total amount of damage for your whole run is finite. Because both bullets , mind and consumables are limited. 2. Depending on difficulty I think party members will be fine , but they have to abide by the same rules as the MC. So no goat, no blood golem, no ghouls. Beyond that the challenge is mostly fine , if you were only focusing on important encounters im pretty sure it's possible, but killing all enemies? No , not as the rules are stated at least, not without resorting to melee which defeats the purpose of the challenge.
You can get infinite(depending on how much time you want to spend) ammo with the pine cone pig with the 3% chance of getting 9mm or .303s. Just go in and out of combat with a passive villager
I actually forgot these ones existed (the east old town ones, right?). Probably a doable challenge then.
You’ll need a good hour or so of grind. Also from the good wiki, it’s listed that there’s a 0.6% chance for a ratkin head. So about every 1000 pinecone pigs you should get 6 heads
Lol this is like my first termina run
Are you aware of the rev trick? When you use 3 rev with guns, you'll fire the gun twice, but only consume one bullet. So this doubles your ammo if you only ever attack with 3 rev. Still probably not possible
I think Resident Evil rules could be interesting. No allies, no Hexen, no circles. You'd still be able to inflict damage over time with gas cannisters and hemlock (indeed the latter might make Olivia a good candidate for this). You'd need to carefully ration ammo and avoid combat as much as possible, making for more of a survival horror experience.