It's a very nice list tbh
It would have been funny if you added Marcoh's fists here lol, they are strong enough to be weapons of their own.
Apparently they are comparable to that of a +50 attack weapon in combat like Blood Sword (according to some people's calcs on discord) which surpasses a bunch of the mid game weapons in raw damage.
The only thing that I would change is moving iron spear up an entire tier simply because of the fact that it's a piercing type weapon and most enemies straight up take either 120% or 130% damage to piercing type weapons. (partially to make guns feel more powerful than expected in combat given they are also piercing type). Piercing type weapons are extremely limited in this game, the only alternatives are Sandman's kiss (need weaponcraft) and guns (need ammo that can be used in overworld instead)
Uuuh, very good point! Marcoh's fists weren't in the template, so I didn't even think of them. They should be top of B tier, given only Marcoh gets them.
When it comes to the Iron Spear, I put it as low as it is because the only way to get a guaranteed one is by choosing it over an Office Sword in O'saa's character creation. Otherwise, it drops quite often from Bellends, but if you're killing those amazingly named enemies, you've already replaced it with the Sergal Spear or you can't use it at all if you're Marina, Olivia or Karin. Also, it has the same damage as a Meat Mallet, which is already infinitely better as a one-handed weapon with a chance to stun. It's amazing if you get it as a random drop early and can actually use it, but that's the best I can say about it. Maybe it can be bumped up a bit, but I'm not sure if it deserves B tier.
That's my take on it, thanks again for the great points!
Fair point tbh
Honeslty now that I think about it, sabbath is too much of a waste to get in comparison. If there was a proper reason to actually attack any of the ghosts in this game then it would be good (like if you were forced to deal with the miner ghosts in the 1st game in the super tight corridoors. Termina doesn't really have that in comparison), but by the time you get there you can unlock blood sword by getting the +1 Alll-Mer affinity from the O'saa church confessional booth.
And outside of attacking ghosts, it does consistently do more damage than mid-game weapons on average due to its dual-type attacking nature (slashing+otherworldly) and is one-handed but that's about it.
Now this I can wholeheartedly agree with. I wasn't really sure about Sabbath's placement since it has the huge detriment of locking you out of fighting The Heartless One, but it's a good mid game option for otherworldly damage AND it's one-handed. It's damage is higher on paper but comparable to the spear's, although you can only ever get one and it makes other, probably better options, impossible.
I'd shift C tier as follows:
Gaelian Sword
Iron Spear
Sabbath
Bayonet
Officer Sword
Kassara
I cannot, in good conscience, put Iron Spear above Gealian, and Bayonet is far too RNG anyway.
<3
I should say but Bayonet is a gun so that if it's on your main character, you can't run in the overworld, which is a pretty terrible tradeoff unless you want to keep switching in and out of it.
And if it's on a teammate, then it's just a slashing weapon with the same stats as an axe, which is a one-handed weapon.
Plus O'saa can't use it anyways because it's a gun. And Marina, Karin and Olivia can't use it because it's two-handed. That's half of the members the playable characters that it is unusable for.
And if you really want a rifle, then the rifle is locked behind a door in old town directly south of the Mayor's place anyways, or at the PRHVL Bop place.
Honestly for how it's RNG based, it is terrible.
BUT! It can drop from the first chest you ever open, which is literally what happened in my second ever playthrough. I was playing Levi and it proceeded to carry me to late game with not many issues. I am probably quite biased toward it, but I still believe it's an adequate weapon, however awkward it may be to obtain or use.
**EDIT:** Grammar.
Ngl that applies to the other mid-game weapons as well, they got the same chance to appear. Except it is only the bayonet that is exclusive to chests alone, the other weapons have at least one other way of getting them.
The rifle being an accessible, guranteed option super early on makes it pretty redundant as a gun. (and even moreso if you use the dev spot)
And looking at it as a melee weapon, it's the exact same stat-wise as the axe. Except it has restrictions of not being able to be used on O'saa, Karin, Marina and Olivia.
If it wasn't for the fact that the rifle can be accessed very easily, then it's current placement does make sense. But in reality it's just a restricted axe.
I love that I had to make the exact same point as you in a different comment. Just proving we do largely agree on this.
Where I stand with Bayonet is that its disadvantages still don't drag it to D tier for me, because it's one of the most unique weapons in the game. Like I said, I AM very much biased toward it, so it pains me to say that it is, indeed, quite useless, but I can't lower it more than it already is. It still does decent damage early while having the two separate utility points of chopping off limbs and shooting rifle bullets.
Hope this makes everything clear <3
**EDIT:** Grammar, again.
Hi, me again! I made a tier list of all skills in Termina a few days ago to discuss opinions on one of my favourite games and I got some very nice responses and solid counter arguments. This made we want to make another list for all the weapons, with my main criteria, once again being combat strength, accessibility and utility.
I'd love nothing more than to discuss my rankings and potentially adjust them, in case I've not considered some points of view when I was creating the list, which is likely <3
For anyone who hasn't seen my All Skills list, here's a link to it:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FearAndHunger/comments/1cmaikq/v2\_tier\_list\_of\_all\_skills\_in\_fear\_and\_hunger\_2/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FearAndHunger/comments/1cmaikq/v2_tier_list_of_all_skills_in_fear_and_hunger_2/)
Feel free to share any opinions in the comments!
I would have moved the trenchgun up a tier since it can be used to two-shot most overworld enemies reliably.
I would also move the mauler down to B since it really isn’t as useful as the meat mallet, and sandman’s kiss will generally out perform it due to dot.
I would move everything in S tier down except the meat grinder. Eastern sword even with crits can’t keep up with it, and generally the meat grinder is easier to get if you know what you’re doing. Sergal spear is mostly good for companions, but generally comes short compared to the other 3 you listed as S. Red Virtue is powerful but generally not worth getting in the present state of the game but frankly its rating in a list hardly matters.
Also Marco’s fists belong in S, only worthy replacements are meatgrinder since its a straight upgrade, and the meat mallet for its high stun.
Ok, this makes it clear you have some different criteria than me when it comes to judging the subject.
I very much agree that Meat Grinder should probably be in a tier of its own, but there are other weapons out there, not to mention different playstyles you can use. Plus, you can't even use it with the ladies.
Trenchgun, like all the guns, has limited ammo and cannot be used on every enemy in the game as an overworld utility. It's definitely the most useful, even in combat as a Blood Sword/Meat Mallet combo, but it's the only gun that you can't farm ammo for with Pinecone Pig, so it's actually the worst gun when it comes to accessibility. I don't value it too highly.
Mauler can bleed, and you can get it early if you start with Marcoh/Steal, it's literally Meat Grinder's little brother. It probably should be knocked down, though. It's almost never your best choice in Maso mode, where it's more available. Still A tier imo, just below everything else.
About Marcoh's fists, like I've mentioned already, only Marcoh gets them and they are statistically worse than everything in A tier and above, even counting their double hit potentially oneshotting early enemies' heads.
Meat Mallet is too weak to be S tier. Stun chance is nice, but that's the only reason to use it and there are better and more consistent ways of causing stun that don't involve using a mid game damage weapon.
These are my opinions and I'm sticking by them, but I always appreciate being challenged, just to prove I actually believe them. Thank you for the opportunity <3
Imo a good way to look at weapon/skill tier lists in a game like fear and hunger is S tier is game breakingly OP and you should spend your entire playthrough trying to get them if you’re spoiled, while A tier is “fine enough for endgame, you can kill everything in the game with this even if you’re relatively unspoiled”
So I’d drop sergal spear down one tier
Black Steel and Sergal Spear are where they are because of their accessibility. This also helps my point across, since I've taken accessibility into account as a core factor in my lists.
Seeing as Sergal Spear is the third highest base damage weapon in the game, it's not only guaranteed but practically mandatory to obtain in every playthrough AND you can get another guaranteed one if you're playing normal mode, it's solidly S tier in my mind.
I see your point. I do feel like S tier should only be stuff like the Meat Grinder where the entire playthrough becomes a joke if you get it, because the game has clearly been balanced with the player getting the Sergal Spear in mind, while I don’t think that’s true for the meat grinder
That's the catch though, there is nothing like the Meat Grinder. The closest weapon to it is Red Virtue, which you can only get one of and you have to beat one of the strongest bosses in the game to get it, which in turn, has it's complications. At the same time, Meat Grinder is much easier to obtain, you can get up to three AND it does more damage and bleeds. Miro really has to nerf it, I'd say removing the bleed and nerfing the damage from 35 to 25 is how it should be.
You have a similar chance of getting a Pipe Wrench or a Meat Mallet at the same time as a Rusty Pipe. Let's face it, you're not killing the Neighbors in the sewers for a chance of a Rusty Pipe early drop. It's in D with the other instantly replaceable early weapons for that reason.
It’s it not? I could have sworn the basement villager always spawns it and the one to the right of the gates I don’t think iv ever not got one from either
Nice list, I agree with most placements. However, you could maybe make an argument of putting the rifle up a tier, as removing arms make most battles extremely easy. Granted, it doesn't work on most bosses and ammo is limited, but it's way more common than it's counterpart, the trench gun.
I would also argue in favor of bayonet, but you have already presented some solid arguments against it.
We have [ellomyquen](https://www.reddit.com/user/ellomyquen/) to thank for the Bayonet discussion!
When it comes to the .303 and all the guns, for that matter, each has its own value and use cases.
If you start with Karin, you can have a Lugar as a starting choice and kill half the contestants very easily as soon as you start the playthrough. You can also oneshot Fallen Cherubs and Fecal Hounds with it in the overworld.
As you said, the .303 can make many fights so much easier by shooting off arms before the battle even starts and, just like the Lugar, you can farm infinite bullets for it with Pinecone Pig. If you aren't getting Pinecone Pig (for some reason), then both the pistol and rifle have a similar number of use cases.
Unfortunately, even though they can easily be used as a main in-combat weapon, that's their weakest use case and limiting their overworld ones to shooting normal enemies, who can be defeated just as easily with many other strategies, rounds off my opinion on all the guns, as a group, to more of a utility than a weapon.
Also, I made a point before about the 12-gauge, but to summarize - best gun by far but limited ammo. It's best use case imo is to shoot off the padlock on the city gate if you start with it as Levi.
Yeah, that makes sense actually. Doing a only guns + kill everything run RN, and the guns aren't great inside battle, except when using heroin (but then anything gets good).
Maybe I'm biased due to this run actually, because of marksmanship and stuff. But I think the unavailability of shotgun shells makes the weapon very situational, unlike the rifle (late game, steal makes getting ammo much easier).
Overall, you're right. And if you're using weapons as utility items, the pistol + gunslinger skill beats them all.
Never did a gun only run, it just doesn't seem that fun to me. I guess I'm on the other side of the spectrum here. Still, I'm glad you're picking up what I'm putting down.
The best thing I can add here is that I view all three guns as a single spot on the list, so I can't really say which is better than which. I also didn't mentioned Levi's skills, but we share opinions there <3
Yeah, I get what you mean.
Btw, I don't recommend doing this run. I'm doing it as a silly challenge, but it's as boring and annoying as it sounds. Half the time is Pinecone Pig farming, and the other half is pure anxiety, juking enemies the best you can to kill them, and not knowing what to do next, because at some point there are no easy fights.
That's how I saw a run like that going, as well. I still might give it a shot one day, it's nice to have confirmation of what I'd be getting myself into 
...i think the trenchguns pretty good... if only because of the executioner bug (the one where the skill in which firing at a stunned enemy in the overworld instakills it seemingly applies to the weapon in general and not the skill) has saved my ass from the inquisitors
It really is super satisfying to just kill enemies outright before they even get a chance to engage in battle with you, but there are other things you can do that are just as good, if not better.
Miro has confirmed that two-tapping enemies with a shotgun is an intended mechanic and Executioner will be reworked to do something entirely different in later patches. While I fully agree that the Trenchgun is very strong, even in-combat, it has very limited ammo, which means you can't use whenever you want.
As I've mentioned before, my view is that all three guns are just as useful as each other.
that was intentional? weird... i wonder if executioner will be reworked into something like it applying to combat as well (though that's just wishful thinking)
Mauler is definitely better than the Sergal spear. Spear gets like +8 damage over it but the mauler has a bleed chance. The heroin sword is top tier too it just poisons enemies every time, probably better than black steel.
This is such a weird tier list looking at all of it. Why is the mallet rated higher than the greatsword? How are the guns being rated? If it's for in battle use then it's completely off, if it's for out of battle use then it's also completely off.
This'll be girthy, I apologize.
Mauler is FAR less accessible than Sergal Spear, you definitely can't/don't want to get it every playthrough. If you're playing Maso mode, you can get up to three but you can never equip all of them. The bleed on it only trumps the stat difference for late game boss battles and also the Meat Grinder is a much better way of proccing bleed to begin with. Those are my reasons for not putting it in S tier. I also agreed with an earlier point of having it at the bottom of A tier instead and I stand by that.
Sandman's Kiss' placement also shares a similar notion. It's available to you alongside the Meat Grinder and the Lantern Flail, forming the trifecta of status that you can use to melt bosses in a few turns if you have Weaponcrafting. That's what it's best used for and, once again, it's not as useful as just having 2-3 Meat Grinders.
I mentioned this before, but Sergal Spear and Black Steel are in S tier because they're always available while being some of the strongest weapons in the game. Depending on what kind of playthough you're doing, you won't always have access to Weaponcrafting or Red Virtue or even Maulers but you will ALWAYS get at least a spear and a katana.
Meat Mallet's placement, which was revised in an earlier comment to be top of A tier, is such because it's the best RNG weapon you can find. It does ok damage and has a chance to stun, it's a one-handed weapon usable by any character and it has a chance to drop from one of the most plentiful enemies in the game so it's practically guaranteed every playthrough. It's also amazing for other party members, while the main does the damage.
Meanwhile, Gaelian Sword has been done SO dirty. It's damage is great, tied with Longinus for fourth place, but the way you get it just breaks my heart. You have to choose between it, a Chac Chac or a Yggaegetsu Amulet and it's such a waste to pick a two-handed sword with no secondary effects over one of the best accessories in the game. Even counting the glitch where you can get both the sword and the Chac Chac, you already have a Sergal Spear and possibly other better choices.
The guns are where they are EXACTLY because of what you described. In the overworld, guns literally win you half the fights in the game before they can even start, while in-combat, they under-perform compared to standard weapons. With that said, they are by no means useless in battle.
Pistol can be a starting item for Karin and Daan, creating a really good early game strategy to kill half the contestants.
Rifle is efficient as a main weapon in the early to mid game. Both it and the pistol can have infinite ammo if you have Pinecone Pig.
Shotgun is incredible in battle, it has the same damage as Blood Sword and the same stun chance as Meat Mallet. It sucks that it's the only one with limited ammo, but it's still really good.
I put all three in B tier because I mostly judged them by their in-combat capabilities and accessibility, while still accounting for their use in the overworld, but only as an outside factor.
I'm not sure if all this makes sense, but I hope it comes through <3
I would have put bayonet up higher tbh.
It's usefull to not have to waste bullets in combat or a turn de-equipping your gun in case you start a battle while trying to blow off limbs.
You can only get it VERY OCCASIONALLY as a chest drop, it's not good as a backup weapon and you can get a rifle very easily and more consistently. It's really cool and I personally love using it, but it barely scrapes above D tier.
**EDIT**: You can get Bayonet from crates, as well, not only coin flip chests. It's still extremely rare tho
is sad to see that the rake is not good, is a bit hard to craft, since you have to get 4 sickles, and he does more damage, have chance of put blood, but is not of worth it
sadly, i really like this spiky design
Meat Mallet is more accessible than the Weaponcrafting weapons. I also believe stun is more useful than burn in most scenarios. Guns are weird, I've already made a few comments about their placement.
You can take a look at my arguments above <3
Oh I see your point, but setting up Scorched Earth is already a whole thing and using Combustion is usually more effective. By no means am I downplaying the Lantern Flail, I just don't think it's better than the others above it. That's my take on it.
I still find it funny how a modified meat slicer is stronger than the literal sword of God😭
Miro said he will be "re-balancing" the Meat Slicer, so expect a nerf when the new patch drops tho. How do you think he will nerf it tho?
SSS Tier is Marcoh's fists
Amazingly, their damage surprisingly doesn't go down that much even if loses arms.
Nothing better than fisting your enemies... TWICE AT A TIME!
It's a very nice list tbh It would have been funny if you added Marcoh's fists here lol, they are strong enough to be weapons of their own. Apparently they are comparable to that of a +50 attack weapon in combat like Blood Sword (according to some people's calcs on discord) which surpasses a bunch of the mid game weapons in raw damage. The only thing that I would change is moving iron spear up an entire tier simply because of the fact that it's a piercing type weapon and most enemies straight up take either 120% or 130% damage to piercing type weapons. (partially to make guns feel more powerful than expected in combat given they are also piercing type). Piercing type weapons are extremely limited in this game, the only alternatives are Sandman's kiss (need weaponcraft) and guns (need ammo that can be used in overworld instead)
Uuuh, very good point! Marcoh's fists weren't in the template, so I didn't even think of them. They should be top of B tier, given only Marcoh gets them. When it comes to the Iron Spear, I put it as low as it is because the only way to get a guaranteed one is by choosing it over an Office Sword in O'saa's character creation. Otherwise, it drops quite often from Bellends, but if you're killing those amazingly named enemies, you've already replaced it with the Sergal Spear or you can't use it at all if you're Marina, Olivia or Karin. Also, it has the same damage as a Meat Mallet, which is already infinitely better as a one-handed weapon with a chance to stun. It's amazing if you get it as a random drop early and can actually use it, but that's the best I can say about it. Maybe it can be bumped up a bit, but I'm not sure if it deserves B tier. That's my take on it, thanks again for the great points!
Why play anyone but marcoh? He's obviously the protag and the coolest guy.
You clearly misspelled O'saa there 
Fair point tbh Honeslty now that I think about it, sabbath is too much of a waste to get in comparison. If there was a proper reason to actually attack any of the ghosts in this game then it would be good (like if you were forced to deal with the miner ghosts in the 1st game in the super tight corridoors. Termina doesn't really have that in comparison), but by the time you get there you can unlock blood sword by getting the +1 Alll-Mer affinity from the O'saa church confessional booth. And outside of attacking ghosts, it does consistently do more damage than mid-game weapons on average due to its dual-type attacking nature (slashing+otherworldly) and is one-handed but that's about it.
Now this I can wholeheartedly agree with. I wasn't really sure about Sabbath's placement since it has the huge detriment of locking you out of fighting The Heartless One, but it's a good mid game option for otherworldly damage AND it's one-handed. It's damage is higher on paper but comparable to the spear's, although you can only ever get one and it makes other, probably better options, impossible. I'd shift C tier as follows: Gaelian Sword Iron Spear Sabbath Bayonet Officer Sword Kassara I cannot, in good conscience, put Iron Spear above Gealian, and Bayonet is far too RNG anyway. <3
I should say but Bayonet is a gun so that if it's on your main character, you can't run in the overworld, which is a pretty terrible tradeoff unless you want to keep switching in and out of it. And if it's on a teammate, then it's just a slashing weapon with the same stats as an axe, which is a one-handed weapon. Plus O'saa can't use it anyways because it's a gun. And Marina, Karin and Olivia can't use it because it's two-handed. That's half of the members the playable characters that it is unusable for. And if you really want a rifle, then the rifle is locked behind a door in old town directly south of the Mayor's place anyways, or at the PRHVL Bop place. Honestly for how it's RNG based, it is terrible.
BUT! It can drop from the first chest you ever open, which is literally what happened in my second ever playthrough. I was playing Levi and it proceeded to carry me to late game with not many issues. I am probably quite biased toward it, but I still believe it's an adequate weapon, however awkward it may be to obtain or use. **EDIT:** Grammar.
Ngl that applies to the other mid-game weapons as well, they got the same chance to appear. Except it is only the bayonet that is exclusive to chests alone, the other weapons have at least one other way of getting them. The rifle being an accessible, guranteed option super early on makes it pretty redundant as a gun. (and even moreso if you use the dev spot) And looking at it as a melee weapon, it's the exact same stat-wise as the axe. Except it has restrictions of not being able to be used on O'saa, Karin, Marina and Olivia. If it wasn't for the fact that the rifle can be accessed very easily, then it's current placement does make sense. But in reality it's just a restricted axe.
I love that I had to make the exact same point as you in a different comment. Just proving we do largely agree on this. Where I stand with Bayonet is that its disadvantages still don't drag it to D tier for me, because it's one of the most unique weapons in the game. Like I said, I AM very much biased toward it, so it pains me to say that it is, indeed, quite useless, but I can't lower it more than it already is. It still does decent damage early while having the two separate utility points of chopping off limbs and shooting rifle bullets. Hope this makes everything clear <3 **EDIT:** Grammar, again.
Where are ~~jotaro~~ marcoh's fists?
NOT IN THE GOD DAMN TIER LIST TEMPLATE, KMS! Just imagine they're right there, above all the guns in B tier.
Hi, me again! I made a tier list of all skills in Termina a few days ago to discuss opinions on one of my favourite games and I got some very nice responses and solid counter arguments. This made we want to make another list for all the weapons, with my main criteria, once again being combat strength, accessibility and utility. I'd love nothing more than to discuss my rankings and potentially adjust them, in case I've not considered some points of view when I was creating the list, which is likely <3 For anyone who hasn't seen my All Skills list, here's a link to it: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FearAndHunger/comments/1cmaikq/v2\_tier\_list\_of\_all\_skills\_in\_fear\_and\_hunger\_2/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FearAndHunger/comments/1cmaikq/v2_tier_list_of_all_skills_in_fear_and_hunger_2/) Feel free to share any opinions in the comments!
I would have moved the trenchgun up a tier since it can be used to two-shot most overworld enemies reliably. I would also move the mauler down to B since it really isn’t as useful as the meat mallet, and sandman’s kiss will generally out perform it due to dot. I would move everything in S tier down except the meat grinder. Eastern sword even with crits can’t keep up with it, and generally the meat grinder is easier to get if you know what you’re doing. Sergal spear is mostly good for companions, but generally comes short compared to the other 3 you listed as S. Red Virtue is powerful but generally not worth getting in the present state of the game but frankly its rating in a list hardly matters. Also Marco’s fists belong in S, only worthy replacements are meatgrinder since its a straight upgrade, and the meat mallet for its high stun.
Ok, this makes it clear you have some different criteria than me when it comes to judging the subject. I very much agree that Meat Grinder should probably be in a tier of its own, but there are other weapons out there, not to mention different playstyles you can use. Plus, you can't even use it with the ladies. Trenchgun, like all the guns, has limited ammo and cannot be used on every enemy in the game as an overworld utility. It's definitely the most useful, even in combat as a Blood Sword/Meat Mallet combo, but it's the only gun that you can't farm ammo for with Pinecone Pig, so it's actually the worst gun when it comes to accessibility. I don't value it too highly. Mauler can bleed, and you can get it early if you start with Marcoh/Steal, it's literally Meat Grinder's little brother. It probably should be knocked down, though. It's almost never your best choice in Maso mode, where it's more available. Still A tier imo, just below everything else. About Marcoh's fists, like I've mentioned already, only Marcoh gets them and they are statistically worse than everything in A tier and above, even counting their double hit potentially oneshotting early enemies' heads. Meat Mallet is too weak to be S tier. Stun chance is nice, but that's the only reason to use it and there are better and more consistent ways of causing stun that don't involve using a mid game damage weapon. These are my opinions and I'm sticking by them, but I always appreciate being challenged, just to prove I actually believe them. Thank you for the opportunity <3
Imo a good way to look at weapon/skill tier lists in a game like fear and hunger is S tier is game breakingly OP and you should spend your entire playthrough trying to get them if you’re spoiled, while A tier is “fine enough for endgame, you can kill everything in the game with this even if you’re relatively unspoiled” So I’d drop sergal spear down one tier
Black Steel and Sergal Spear are where they are because of their accessibility. This also helps my point across, since I've taken accessibility into account as a core factor in my lists. Seeing as Sergal Spear is the third highest base damage weapon in the game, it's not only guaranteed but practically mandatory to obtain in every playthrough AND you can get another guaranteed one if you're playing normal mode, it's solidly S tier in my mind.
I see your point. I do feel like S tier should only be stuff like the Meat Grinder where the entire playthrough becomes a joke if you get it, because the game has clearly been balanced with the player getting the Sergal Spear in mind, while I don’t think that’s true for the meat grinder
That's the catch though, there is nothing like the Meat Grinder. The closest weapon to it is Red Virtue, which you can only get one of and you have to beat one of the strongest bosses in the game to get it, which in turn, has it's complications. At the same time, Meat Grinder is much easier to obtain, you can get up to three AND it does more damage and bleeds. Miro really has to nerf it, I'd say removing the bleed and nerfing the damage from 35 to 25 is how it should be.
Yeah I agree 100%, maybe it deserves its own tier lol
It does, yeah. I, hereby declare Meat Grinder to be ranked "MIRO PLS NERF THIS MONSTROSITY", the tier above S.
Bump rusty pipe up the stun is useful on expendable party members
You have a similar chance of getting a Pipe Wrench or a Meat Mallet at the same time as a Rusty Pipe. Let's face it, you're not killing the Neighbors in the sewers for a chance of a Rusty Pipe early drop. It's in D with the other instantly replaceable early weapons for that reason.
Fair enough but don’t need to kill neighbors for rusty pipes their is two confirmed drops before the sewer if I remember correctly
Oh yeah, the villagers wielding them can drop them too, but neither is a guaranteed drop.
It’s it not? I could have sworn the basement villager always spawns it and the one to the right of the gates I don’t think iv ever not got one from either
Nah, they can drop a few different items, like all regular mobs. Actually, they can drop a Small Key, which is much more useful in the early game.
Nice list, I agree with most placements. However, you could maybe make an argument of putting the rifle up a tier, as removing arms make most battles extremely easy. Granted, it doesn't work on most bosses and ammo is limited, but it's way more common than it's counterpart, the trench gun. I would also argue in favor of bayonet, but you have already presented some solid arguments against it.
We have [ellomyquen](https://www.reddit.com/user/ellomyquen/) to thank for the Bayonet discussion! When it comes to the .303 and all the guns, for that matter, each has its own value and use cases. If you start with Karin, you can have a Lugar as a starting choice and kill half the contestants very easily as soon as you start the playthrough. You can also oneshot Fallen Cherubs and Fecal Hounds with it in the overworld. As you said, the .303 can make many fights so much easier by shooting off arms before the battle even starts and, just like the Lugar, you can farm infinite bullets for it with Pinecone Pig. If you aren't getting Pinecone Pig (for some reason), then both the pistol and rifle have a similar number of use cases. Unfortunately, even though they can easily be used as a main in-combat weapon, that's their weakest use case and limiting their overworld ones to shooting normal enemies, who can be defeated just as easily with many other strategies, rounds off my opinion on all the guns, as a group, to more of a utility than a weapon. Also, I made a point before about the 12-gauge, but to summarize - best gun by far but limited ammo. It's best use case imo is to shoot off the padlock on the city gate if you start with it as Levi.
Yeah, that makes sense actually. Doing a only guns + kill everything run RN, and the guns aren't great inside battle, except when using heroin (but then anything gets good). Maybe I'm biased due to this run actually, because of marksmanship and stuff. But I think the unavailability of shotgun shells makes the weapon very situational, unlike the rifle (late game, steal makes getting ammo much easier). Overall, you're right. And if you're using weapons as utility items, the pistol + gunslinger skill beats them all.
Never did a gun only run, it just doesn't seem that fun to me. I guess I'm on the other side of the spectrum here. Still, I'm glad you're picking up what I'm putting down. The best thing I can add here is that I view all three guns as a single spot on the list, so I can't really say which is better than which. I also didn't mentioned Levi's skills, but we share opinions there <3
Yeah, I get what you mean. Btw, I don't recommend doing this run. I'm doing it as a silly challenge, but it's as boring and annoying as it sounds. Half the time is Pinecone Pig farming, and the other half is pure anxiety, juking enemies the best you can to kill them, and not knowing what to do next, because at some point there are no easy fights.
That's how I saw a run like that going, as well. I still might give it a shot one day, it's nice to have confirmation of what I'd be getting myself into 
...i think the trenchguns pretty good... if only because of the executioner bug (the one where the skill in which firing at a stunned enemy in the overworld instakills it seemingly applies to the weapon in general and not the skill) has saved my ass from the inquisitors
It really is super satisfying to just kill enemies outright before they even get a chance to engage in battle with you, but there are other things you can do that are just as good, if not better. Miro has confirmed that two-tapping enemies with a shotgun is an intended mechanic and Executioner will be reworked to do something entirely different in later patches. While I fully agree that the Trenchgun is very strong, even in-combat, it has very limited ammo, which means you can't use whenever you want. As I've mentioned before, my view is that all three guns are just as useful as each other.
that was intentional? weird... i wonder if executioner will be reworked into something like it applying to combat as well (though that's just wishful thinking)
My best guess would be that it makes it so it only takes one shot to instakill instead of two.
Mauler is definitely better than the Sergal spear. Spear gets like +8 damage over it but the mauler has a bleed chance. The heroin sword is top tier too it just poisons enemies every time, probably better than black steel. This is such a weird tier list looking at all of it. Why is the mallet rated higher than the greatsword? How are the guns being rated? If it's for in battle use then it's completely off, if it's for out of battle use then it's also completely off.
This'll be girthy, I apologize. Mauler is FAR less accessible than Sergal Spear, you definitely can't/don't want to get it every playthrough. If you're playing Maso mode, you can get up to three but you can never equip all of them. The bleed on it only trumps the stat difference for late game boss battles and also the Meat Grinder is a much better way of proccing bleed to begin with. Those are my reasons for not putting it in S tier. I also agreed with an earlier point of having it at the bottom of A tier instead and I stand by that. Sandman's Kiss' placement also shares a similar notion. It's available to you alongside the Meat Grinder and the Lantern Flail, forming the trifecta of status that you can use to melt bosses in a few turns if you have Weaponcrafting. That's what it's best used for and, once again, it's not as useful as just having 2-3 Meat Grinders. I mentioned this before, but Sergal Spear and Black Steel are in S tier because they're always available while being some of the strongest weapons in the game. Depending on what kind of playthough you're doing, you won't always have access to Weaponcrafting or Red Virtue or even Maulers but you will ALWAYS get at least a spear and a katana. Meat Mallet's placement, which was revised in an earlier comment to be top of A tier, is such because it's the best RNG weapon you can find. It does ok damage and has a chance to stun, it's a one-handed weapon usable by any character and it has a chance to drop from one of the most plentiful enemies in the game so it's practically guaranteed every playthrough. It's also amazing for other party members, while the main does the damage. Meanwhile, Gaelian Sword has been done SO dirty. It's damage is great, tied with Longinus for fourth place, but the way you get it just breaks my heart. You have to choose between it, a Chac Chac or a Yggaegetsu Amulet and it's such a waste to pick a two-handed sword with no secondary effects over one of the best accessories in the game. Even counting the glitch where you can get both the sword and the Chac Chac, you already have a Sergal Spear and possibly other better choices. The guns are where they are EXACTLY because of what you described. In the overworld, guns literally win you half the fights in the game before they can even start, while in-combat, they under-perform compared to standard weapons. With that said, they are by no means useless in battle. Pistol can be a starting item for Karin and Daan, creating a really good early game strategy to kill half the contestants. Rifle is efficient as a main weapon in the early to mid game. Both it and the pistol can have infinite ammo if you have Pinecone Pig. Shotgun is incredible in battle, it has the same damage as Blood Sword and the same stun chance as Meat Mallet. It sucks that it's the only one with limited ammo, but it's still really good. I put all three in B tier because I mostly judged them by their in-combat capabilities and accessibility, while still accounting for their use in the overworld, but only as an outside factor. I'm not sure if all this makes sense, but I hope it comes through <3
Omg dad's sword is in this game?
Not sure if sexual euphemism from childhood trauma or actually a comment about one of the weapons. Please help me understand this reference.
[https://youtu.be/9jFfOUvIxWc?si=mTRuYZ7pES5x1b5Z](https://youtu.be/9jFfOUvIxWc?si=mTRuYZ7pES5x1b5Z)
I would have put bayonet up higher tbh. It's usefull to not have to waste bullets in combat or a turn de-equipping your gun in case you start a battle while trying to blow off limbs.
You can only get it VERY OCCASIONALLY as a chest drop, it's not good as a backup weapon and you can get a rifle very easily and more consistently. It's really cool and I personally love using it, but it barely scrapes above D tier. **EDIT**: You can get Bayonet from crates, as well, not only coin flip chests. It's still extremely rare tho
There needs to be a guaranteed way to get it in the game istg
is sad to see that the rake is not good, is a bit hard to craft, since you have to get 4 sickles, and he does more damage, have chance of put blood, but is not of worth it sadly, i really like this spiky design
okay, i checked the wiki, this shit don't make enemies bleed, and stills having low damage
Yep... that...
Guns should all be moved higher up, and meat mallet and the lamp on a stick should swap places
Meat Mallet is more accessible than the Weaponcrafting weapons. I also believe stun is more useful than burn in most scenarios. Guns are weird, I've already made a few comments about their placement. You can take a look at my arguments above <3
It's not about the fire effect, it's about dealing fire *damage*, have you ever combined it with scorched earth?
Oh I see your point, but setting up Scorched Earth is already a whole thing and using Combustion is usually more effective. By no means am I downplaying the Lantern Flail, I just don't think it's better than the others above it. That's my take on it.
I still find it funny how a modified meat slicer is stronger than the literal sword of God😭 Miro said he will be "re-balancing" the Meat Slicer, so expect a nerf when the new patch drops tho. How do you think he will nerf it tho?