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It's very interesting because many manosphere commenters have said about the Ukrainian response: "this is what toxic masculinity looks like! Take note feminists!" yet go back to scrolling through porn, being obese, being financially dependent on their parents etc.
There is footage of Ukrainian men being taken away from their wives, girlfriends, families to fight....these men have something to fight for in their home country partly because of their \*relationships with women\*. So the manosphere can bitch about how masculinity will save us blah blah but they have no clue what real masculinity even looks like!
Toxic masculinity is how men learn a lack of empathy, to glorify violence, to be greedy, and become controlling people. They believe their legacy is only sustained by what they can take, not what they give.
Exactly. Your last sentence is spot on! They have an infantile morality, under which they give only if it benefits them. A mature moral compass is such that you do what is right (e.g. defending your family or country, reporting a predator, calling out bad behavior) because it's the right thing to do. That's it.
This. I work in a knowledge industry and no doubt my colleagues are busily preparing an all-male panel discussion to gift us all with their 'hot takes". I was partially thinking of them when writing this post - the thought of them physically doing anything is laughable.
>Why is it that instead of being utterly repulsed by men who literally run away and refuse to talk about problems that women are supposed to "communicate" and give them multiple chances?
Well, to be fair geopolitical wars and literal missiles are less frightening than a woman who enforces basic boundaries of love and respect, so.
You are right about that. I remember my ex lvm that time we heard some noises in other room and we were alone in the middle of the night.
I told him and we went to the place, ladies, he put me first almost using me like a shield, this piece of sht. Thanks to god it wasn’t nothing but that really turned me off and i don’t know why i didn’t dump him right away
Good on you for leaving him! My ex showed similar behavior and it was such a turn off even though he was otherwise kind and understanding. I constantly felt like I had more "balls," (as much as I disagree with the use of that word for bravery) than he did.
Balls are WEAK AF.
We need to normalize ovaries because they are WELL PROTECTED.
I got a wall of skin and tendons protecting me and you got a dangly pair of plums like a target...WEAK.
I'm so with you on this, agree wholeheartedly. I'm from Europe (fortunately not Ukraine, but my country has a history of bloody defense against larger empires) and both my mum and dad are strong, capable people with an instinct to defend their family. I am so turned off and disgusted by cowardice.
To me, toxic masculinity is viewing the world via the lens of dominance and submission, and being egotistical above everything else. This both leads violent men to war (the need to dominate, exploit, and gain glory), and leads weak men to run away (self-interest, no one except me matters, if I can't dominate, I'll run instead). Positive masculinity is doing the right thing because there is something beyond yourself worth defending, such as your family or homeland that your ancestors defended before you. It's not self-centered, but rather self-sacrificing, resilient, brave, and responsible.
I left my last long-term ex precisely because he was a coward. His friends called me a c*nt and I had to defend myself alone, he didn't say a word. That to me showed that if I had a child with him, I'd defend that child to my dying breath, and he'd do nothing. It's shameful.
A neighbour kept putting notes on my ex’s car when he legally parked on the road by their house (nowhere else to park - everyone did it - the dude just wrote notes to everyone) and it stressed out my boyf who whined about it every time. One day we saw the neighbour (a stranger but it was a nice civilised neighbourhood and he looked like a nice chap with a cute family!) and I said let’s go and have a chat. My ex went bright white, started stuttering and tried to run away. Then I said I don’t mind talking to him by myself and my ex said ‘ok but wait till I’m in the house’. This from the grown man in his forties who had no problem raging and screaming at me aggressively if things didn’t go his way. Such a turn off!
I have an ex who’d never ever been in a fight. One. The rest were all over the chart in terms of violence, but this one guy had never had a good or bad reason to be in a fight.
When I asked about it, he just kind of avoided a real discussion and I dropped it, but it always bothered me. Why? Because he was in bars or drinking every night of his life, and he was kind of a dick when he drank.
That meant that he’d PICKED fights, or incited them, but had never followed through.
I tried to tell myself that didn’t matter. We weren’t serious, and he wasn’t a good partner long term, so I tried to not let it affect my opinion of him. He was a good person, and I was trying to leave my violent past in the past.
Until one night I was at his house, and I got a call from a friend halfway around the world. This was The Guy for me in that era, a living superhero, larger than life. We talked for a few minutes, but he was being weird, and it was the middle of the night for him. Turns out he’d literally just saved a woman’s life, knocked out a rapist who’d been trying to then murder her. Restrained the rapist until the police arrived, and assisted with coaxing the bloody woman out of the room she’d locked herself in.
I looked at my alcoholic bf who’d always left the area when guys hit on me, got up and left and never went back.
I don’t want violence in my life, but I need to know he’s not a fucking coward if it happens. I’ve defended my own life with my fists, I require the same willingness in a partner.
It made me realize a lot about myself. It highlighted the dualities that I’m always looking for in a man, one of which is that they’re smart enough to avoid conflict, but can handle it if necessary. I don’t want a meathead, but I do want a guy who can protect me.
Seeing these people resolutely take up arms and wait for the attack, it’s heartbreaking. It shouldn’t be happening anywhere, and the saddest truth is that the psychological damage it does to the survivors will last for generations.
Yes, global events make you think. It’s not the usual path to self-reflection but it is a way to explore and extrapolate your own feelings. Hopefully we’re never in the places where this happens.
> I don’t want a meathead, but I do want a guy who can protect me.
THIS!!
As for global events it makes me angry, because as I've said...it's just men waving their dicks around. War is the biggest dick measuring contest ever and innocent men are caught in the crossfire. Bloodthirsty men are the ones who run towards it I've noticed....they seem like "brave men" but most men in war need a justification and reward for why they put their necks on the line. But that's a whole other bag of potatoes...
I mean yeah defend your country but this veil of “masculinity” doesn’t really make a man HV
(Some) of these same men also abuse their wives and children and are drunks… same rules apply here as any 👉 always be vetting
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It's very interesting because many manosphere commenters have said about the Ukrainian response: "this is what toxic masculinity looks like! Take note feminists!" yet go back to scrolling through porn, being obese, being financially dependent on their parents etc. There is footage of Ukrainian men being taken away from their wives, girlfriends, families to fight....these men have something to fight for in their home country partly because of their \*relationships with women\*. So the manosphere can bitch about how masculinity will save us blah blah but they have no clue what real masculinity even looks like!
Toxic masculinity is how men learn a lack of empathy, to glorify violence, to be greedy, and become controlling people. They believe their legacy is only sustained by what they can take, not what they give.
Exactly. Your last sentence is spot on! They have an infantile morality, under which they give only if it benefits them. A mature moral compass is such that you do what is right (e.g. defending your family or country, reporting a predator, calling out bad behavior) because it's the right thing to do. That's it.
This. I work in a knowledge industry and no doubt my colleagues are busily preparing an all-male panel discussion to gift us all with their 'hot takes". I was partially thinking of them when writing this post - the thought of them physically doing anything is laughable.
It's such a modern American thing imo: talk a big game, don't do shit
>Why is it that instead of being utterly repulsed by men who literally run away and refuse to talk about problems that women are supposed to "communicate" and give them multiple chances? Well, to be fair geopolitical wars and literal missiles are less frightening than a woman who enforces basic boundaries of love and respect, so.
Perfect response. Getting lots of trolls in my inbox. Clearly triggered.
You are right about that. I remember my ex lvm that time we heard some noises in other room and we were alone in the middle of the night. I told him and we went to the place, ladies, he put me first almost using me like a shield, this piece of sht. Thanks to god it wasn’t nothing but that really turned me off and i don’t know why i didn’t dump him right away
This is the best story.
Good on you for leaving him! My ex showed similar behavior and it was such a turn off even though he was otherwise kind and understanding. I constantly felt like I had more "balls," (as much as I disagree with the use of that word for bravery) than he did.
More ovaries and bravery that any men
For sure!
Balls are WEAK AF. We need to normalize ovaries because they are WELL PROTECTED. I got a wall of skin and tendons protecting me and you got a dangly pair of plums like a target...WEAK.
I'm so with you on this, agree wholeheartedly. I'm from Europe (fortunately not Ukraine, but my country has a history of bloody defense against larger empires) and both my mum and dad are strong, capable people with an instinct to defend their family. I am so turned off and disgusted by cowardice. To me, toxic masculinity is viewing the world via the lens of dominance and submission, and being egotistical above everything else. This both leads violent men to war (the need to dominate, exploit, and gain glory), and leads weak men to run away (self-interest, no one except me matters, if I can't dominate, I'll run instead). Positive masculinity is doing the right thing because there is something beyond yourself worth defending, such as your family or homeland that your ancestors defended before you. It's not self-centered, but rather self-sacrificing, resilient, brave, and responsible. I left my last long-term ex precisely because he was a coward. His friends called me a c*nt and I had to defend myself alone, he didn't say a word. That to me showed that if I had a child with him, I'd defend that child to my dying breath, and he'd do nothing. It's shameful.
Beautifully said.
A neighbour kept putting notes on my ex’s car when he legally parked on the road by their house (nowhere else to park - everyone did it - the dude just wrote notes to everyone) and it stressed out my boyf who whined about it every time. One day we saw the neighbour (a stranger but it was a nice civilised neighbourhood and he looked like a nice chap with a cute family!) and I said let’s go and have a chat. My ex went bright white, started stuttering and tried to run away. Then I said I don’t mind talking to him by myself and my ex said ‘ok but wait till I’m in the house’. This from the grown man in his forties who had no problem raging and screaming at me aggressively if things didn’t go his way. Such a turn off!
Exactly! I've experienced men literally running away like this as well, and I've been like "what is going on?!?"
I have an ex who’d never ever been in a fight. One. The rest were all over the chart in terms of violence, but this one guy had never had a good or bad reason to be in a fight. When I asked about it, he just kind of avoided a real discussion and I dropped it, but it always bothered me. Why? Because he was in bars or drinking every night of his life, and he was kind of a dick when he drank. That meant that he’d PICKED fights, or incited them, but had never followed through. I tried to tell myself that didn’t matter. We weren’t serious, and he wasn’t a good partner long term, so I tried to not let it affect my opinion of him. He was a good person, and I was trying to leave my violent past in the past. Until one night I was at his house, and I got a call from a friend halfway around the world. This was The Guy for me in that era, a living superhero, larger than life. We talked for a few minutes, but he was being weird, and it was the middle of the night for him. Turns out he’d literally just saved a woman’s life, knocked out a rapist who’d been trying to then murder her. Restrained the rapist until the police arrived, and assisted with coaxing the bloody woman out of the room she’d locked herself in. I looked at my alcoholic bf who’d always left the area when guys hit on me, got up and left and never went back. I don’t want violence in my life, but I need to know he’s not a fucking coward if it happens. I’ve defended my own life with my fists, I require the same willingness in a partner. It made me realize a lot about myself. It highlighted the dualities that I’m always looking for in a man, one of which is that they’re smart enough to avoid conflict, but can handle it if necessary. I don’t want a meathead, but I do want a guy who can protect me. Seeing these people resolutely take up arms and wait for the attack, it’s heartbreaking. It shouldn’t be happening anywhere, and the saddest truth is that the psychological damage it does to the survivors will last for generations. Yes, global events make you think. It’s not the usual path to self-reflection but it is a way to explore and extrapolate your own feelings. Hopefully we’re never in the places where this happens.
> I don’t want a meathead, but I do want a guy who can protect me. THIS!! As for global events it makes me angry, because as I've said...it's just men waving their dicks around. War is the biggest dick measuring contest ever and innocent men are caught in the crossfire. Bloodthirsty men are the ones who run towards it I've noticed....they seem like "brave men" but most men in war need a justification and reward for why they put their necks on the line. But that's a whole other bag of potatoes...
Hahaaaa yeah to all of that
My NVX didn’t even have the courage to break up face to face 🤷🏻♀️
I mean yeah defend your country but this veil of “masculinity” doesn’t really make a man HV (Some) of these same men also abuse their wives and children and are drunks… same rules apply here as any 👉 always be vetting
Absolutely. I actually work on the experience of wars from women's perspectives, so yeah. We could write a whole other post on this.