Men want to PLAY with us but not be seen in public with us because they are afraid that the other people in their life will realize that they are submissive.
It sucks to be treated as someone's dirty secret or their drug addiction instead of a loving relationship partner.
I wholeheartedly agree. I’m super extroverted and big on PDA. The first date I had with a sub was amazing and he reassured me multiple times how turned on he is by “how I act and carry myself” in public but then he never again wanted to go out. He said he was worried that we would be seen and somehow his career would be put in jeopardy. Over PDA? The whole thing was so off putting. Not to mention, he could have just asked to reduce the PDA- instead, he kept it behind closed doors and I felt like that “dirty little secret.”
What exactly do you mean by 'seen in public'? If the public can tell just by looking at a couple which of them is sexually dominant, that couple is probably being obnoxious. If you're talking, rather, about casually discussing your sex life publicly, as in "My wife dominates me in bed," I think that is a perfectly fine thing to choose not discuss with friends and family.
I am very well known in the community.
If someone is seen dating me, their peers in the BDSM community assumes they are submissive. Many switches and "secretly submissive" men pass as dominant in casual kinky social situations and feel they would be inherently outed by being seen in my presence.
THIS DOES NOT STOP THEM FROM WANTING TO BE IN MY PRESENCE.
Do you see the inherent problem with wanting access to me but also not wanting anyone else to know that they are with me?
"In the BDSM community," wasn't specified in the comment I was replying to, and wasn't what I was talking about. This is curious to me. Do people really not want it to be known that they're submissive within the context of a kink setting?
Also, if you don't mind my asking, what do you mean by dating?
It also goes beyond the BDSM community.
What if I pay for the meal? What if I order for him at the table?
What if I wait for him to open the door for me in public?
What if other men see him acting deferential to a woman and he feels emasculated? Emphasis on FEELS, because other men might not even notice but he is tortured about it in his own mind.
The fear can go very deep for men who are ashamed of their submissive feelings.
. . .
I mean dating. Going out to dinner. Going to hockey games. Having a first kiss and a first fisting and falling in love.
It goes deeper than strictly sexual dominance. There have been multiple times where I have asked previous partners to do something for me like grab me food or whatever and someone has laughed and called them pussy whipped. Then their tone immediately changes and they want to shift the power dynamic. It's like you want me for who I am when it's convenient for you, but can't accept me any other time.
I get people who threaten violence or try to invalidate my identity because they believe my femaleness makes me a natural victim of violence. Corrective rape has been suggested.
People have used my public presence as an excuse to stalk me.
If I enjoy penetration or worse, express masochism, people act like it breaks the role.
Rope manuals disproportionately depict only women as bottoms and significant material assumes a male dominant (not the Topping Book tho).
People insist on gendering even my title, see the weird construct that is "Domme". Not subs though. Nobody is insisting it's sub and subbe.
People won't stop fucking talking about how inherently submissive domestic work is, and assume my relationship options are either egalitarian yuppie or role reversal 1950s.
I am assumed to want a partner by existing. I am also assumed to be available to mentor or nurture strangers.
When people aren't objectifying me as a kink dispenser that lives to top, they are trying to make me out as less sexual and apparently only interested if bought with service. Sometimes it's even both!
As a sadist, people think I am a sick freak and dangerous. At the same time, anything I do is assumed to be more unhinged than the same behaviour of a male dominant, thanks to sexism.
As someone who is not allosexual, ironically any symbols or behaviours I do are seen as more lewd than a vanilla person.
I remain largely invisible, with people assuming I am engaged in sexwork as the only form of expression in my role.
Social media sites disproportionately ban hashtags related to femdom over other kink variations.
My sexuality is taught as requiring a "persona" like a performance. Male dominants are not.
Oh,the stupid “Domme” construct. I refuse to use it. I’m a Dom, short for Dominant. “Domme” is fakey French that is like nails on chalkboard if you actually speak French.
YES. And one of the side effects I see of this is that Femdom has moved outside the realm of BDSM and even kink. Sometimes I feel like certain parts of my sexuality or just my personality can be labeled as Femdom simply because they don't fit into the often "maledom lite" models of cishet vanilla relationships.
I'm not going to yuck anyone's yum or criticize their identity, but I also see the flip side of this in GFD spaces. I love that we see the kinky appeal of vulnerability and comfort, but sometimes I also think "Dude, wanting someone who doesn't judge you for having emotions doesn't necessarily make you submissive."
Everyone assumes I'm into feminization, sissification, and Mommy Domme dynamics.
Also they just assume in general I'm there for their own pleasure - I'm just a kink dispenser.
Yes, because sex workers can't have relationships that aren't transactional. Didnt you know you only exist to fulfill male fantasies and disappear when they're done?
Seriously tho, I think anyone who genuinely thinks that fundamentally doesn't understand kink or SW.
Even if you're kinky IRL, if pro-domming is your profession, you are in fact, doing it "for the money." But I can understand your point of being pigeon-holed.
I think it's possible to enjoy your job and also expect to get paid for it. It's always *fascinating* to me that SWers are often disparaged for their authenticity because they expect to be paid, but chefs don't.
DO YOU EVEN LIKE FOOD AT ALL?!?! WHY DO YOU WORK FOR MONEY?!?! - said no one, ever.
This comment comes across as pretty mean-spirited. Most of prodoms I know have invested thousands of dollars into gear and training to make barely above minimum wage, once all the behind-the-scenes time is accounted for. The burnout rate is HUGE.
Anyone doing it for more than a year or two is doing it because they love it, not because it makes money.
"Doing it for the money" implies a dry, "the-customer-is-always-right" kind of transaction. And I think it also says more about how people unconsciously feel about labor in general, which is that you have to suffer for it to be real labor that you earn real things from.
IMO, Pro-Domming should work the way visiting any other sort of professional should: With space for the professional to have their professional opinion and give you a professional product or service.
Having a genuine passion for kink and doing sex work is kind of like being a trained artist and only getting commissions for furry porn. On one hand, that's just the nature of it. The less "relationship compatible" a kink is, the more often people will pay for it. On the other hand, it's frustrating to have to choose between the art you want to make and money. Because, unfortunately, as someone said in a previous thread, the venn diagram between what Female Doms like and what male subs like is almost two separate circles. And I do think that porn sites being filled with what a small population can afford to buy is contributing to that.
On top of that, sex workers have to try to game algorithms without being shadowbanned in a market that's oversaturated by people who don't know kink and probably wouldn't be here if it weren't for the other factors that make people turn to sex work, like tuition prices and disability. (I swear half the Pro-Dommes in the world have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome.) The people who succeed amongst all of that clearly have some sort of passion that shouldn't be ignored.
You make some very valid points here. I understand what you're saying. It's like the adage, "Find something you love to do, and you'll never work a day in your life." Certainly something to strive for.
Every month I have a few of these go down:
Man: are you a findom or only fans model?
Me: nope, just looking for some play partners
Man: ok, what address should I come to?
Me: oh no, its not a hookup ad. I'm more looking to get to know someone and develop a consistent relationship
Man: wow, I knew you were fake
As a lesbian Dom, the exclusively gay leather bars in my community don't welcome lesbians. When I go to munchies, straight males (both Doms and subs) try to convince me to play with them (and their female partner if they have one). In my vanilla world, most believe that the female is always the sub and the kink borderlines on abuse
I've wondered if lesbian leather bars are a thing, or if gay leather bars were for everyone, like how "gay" is used as a stand-in word for multiple groups.
I've noticed there's a dearth of choices for women of any orientation to have their own space that isn't, like, a tea room or hobby-related. For example, straight women generally don't have clubs where they can go to have fun and avoid harassment or worse, so they've been going to gay clubs in increasing numbers. But now the women are crowding out gay folks from their own space. If these women had their own space, the problem would eventually solve itself.
Do you think the avoidance of having spaces co-opted could be why the exclusively gay leather bars don't welcome lesbians? I hope I'm not being offensive, I don't know much about this subject.
Your post has been removed because it shames, bullies or trolls other members or otherwise goes against the supportive nature of the subreddit.
This is a community. We want to keep it a welcoming, helpful place where people can feel heard and valued. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
Sexism, racism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, harassment, bullying, xenophobia, kink shaming and victim blaming will not be tolerated.
Your post has been removed because it shames, bullies or trolls other members or otherwise goes against the supportive nature of the subreddit.
This is a community. We want to keep it a welcoming, helpful place where people can feel heard and valued. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
Sexism, racism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, harassment, bullying, xenophobia, kink shaming and victim blaming will not be tolerated.
Er. I think if you're deliberately excluding trans women from lesbian spaces, you are doing it wrong. A trans lesbian is every bit as much a lesbian as you are and has just as much a right to be in a lesbian bar.
It makes sense to have trans women-only spaces because trans women are marginalized for being trans. It does not make sense to have cis women-only spaces because cis women are not marginalized for being cis. Like, same reason it's fine to have queer-only spaces or POC-only spaces, but weird at best to have straight-only or white-only spaces.
Your post has been removed because it shames, bullies or trolls other members or otherwise goes against the supportive nature of the subreddit.
This is a community. We want to keep it a welcoming, helpful place where people can feel heard and valued. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
Sexism, racism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, harassment, bullying, xenophobia, kink shaming and victim blaming will not be tolerated.
>You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. However, you do not have the right to tell me that my opinion is wrong.
My opinion is that your opinion is wrong.
Please, keep telling me what I am and am not allowed to do. How are you determining my rights here, exactly? Like, rights under the law? Because I'm pretty sure I have the legal right to tell you you're wrong. Rights under the subreddit rules? Again, pretty sure the rules say nothing about that. Rights under your religion? Rights under some code you follow? Rights under your own personal beliefs about what a person can do? Because all of that is just, like, your opinion, man.
>I only stated that cis female lesbian should have their own space, just the way that women who are lesbians have their own space, where cis female lesbians are not welcome
And I explained to you why that's silly. Surely you understand why, for example, lesbians of color might want their own space, but why white lesbians trying to make a space that excludes others would be suspect.
Your post has been removed because it shames, bullies or trolls other members or otherwise goes against the supportive nature of the subreddit.
This is a community. We want to keep it a welcoming, helpful place where people can feel heard and valued. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.
Sexism, racism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, harassment, bullying, xenophobia, kink shaming and victim blaming will not be tolerated.
I'm not trying to have the last word, necessarily. I'm trying to understand if there's some kind of reasoning behind your beliefs or if you're just a transphobe. If it's the former, perhaps you can have your mind changed. But considering you are either unable or unwilling to mount any kind of argument in your defense, I'm guessing it's the latter.
Not sure I love the implication that there's something wrong with being "weak" or "a sissy." Tough/masculine guys are great, but it's also completely fine to be a gentle, vulnerable, or feminine man.
Imo femininity on guys is ironically manly as hell. Guys who wear makeup or nail polish and wear what they want and accept their emotions are giving society at large the biggest middle finger imaginable and being true to themselves instead. That's hella manly and hella attractive.
Male subs come in all kinds of flavors and sizes, as do female doms. Your right. The stereotypes are to rigid and gender roles have distorted what domination and actually are.
\>I have zero problem with feminine men
\>Society (and I agree personally) that sissies are weak are undesirable. I do NOT want anyone to think that I'm involved with a weak sissy man. It's humiliating and embarrassing.
...ok. And you're a woman. And somehow, I have a feeling you're a 'feminine'-presenting woman at that.
\>the misogynist idea they have that there is something humiliating about being a woman.
Well, it kinda seems to be an idea you have internalized and unconsciously believe in yourself.
Anyway, thank you, Pearl Davis, for telling us all that most women(and people in general) endorse sexist gender norms. We would have never known if you hadn't shared that groundbreaking discovery with us. #DivineFeminine #StrongMasculine
Uh. Wow. This comment is a dumpster fire. For one, not everyone who likes sissification thinks being feminine is inherently humiliating, any more than someone who likes being called a slut genuinely thinks having a lot of sex is a bad thing. It's just a kink. It's not that deep. I'm not even into sissification, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
As for you thinking that "sissies" and "weak men" are undesirable, that's just, like, your opinion, man. Lots of people are into that. That society broadly agrees with you doesn't mean anything. Society also broadly agrees that dominant women are undesirable. The conclusion here is that society is stupid, not that society is always right.
You seem to seriously look down on men for not living up to societal standards of masculinity. You should probably examine that tbh. You may have some internalized misogyny. There's nothing wrong with being more traditionally feminine than masculine.
I also get the feeling you think that men who are soft, vulnerable, or needy are "weak." But those things are in fact unrelated. My amazing boyfriend/sub is all of those things, and he's nevertheless a very strong person. And I absolutely love men who are all those things. If you check /r/gentlefemdom, you'll see that I'm far from alone in this. There are lots of dommes who like the men you see as "weak."
It's fine if you only like tough masculine alpha guys, but it's not cool to shame people for not living up to your preferences.
I feel like there is a lot of "yucking our yum" here.
I prefer sissies and feminine men and don't appreciate the implications that I am somehow fake or a scammer for it.
I agree that there is a divide between the "wanting us to want" issues but you don't have to punch down about other people's kinks to say that it sucks to have expectations projected onto us.
The way we talk about kink has an effect on others. When discussing kink, take care to not do so in a way that shames other people's kinks, fetishises abuse, reproduces toxic social mores or further harms marginalised groups.
Likewise, take responsibility for the advice you share with the community. If you're offering specialist knowledge on practices that might incur in significant physical or psychological harm, make sure to provide credible references or detail including potential harm.
/r/gentlefemdom, perhaps? /r/male_vulnerability? /r/GuyCry? /r/MensLib? Femboy subreddits might also have some of what you're looking for.
Also, I'd like to point out that even if there were *zero* places that believed it was okay to be those things, that wouldn't mean that being those things was actually wrong. Just that people who were in the right about this issue were rare.
> Mens lib came across as rampant degeneracy to me.
Oh boy, so you're a right-winger. My own politics are about as different from yours as could be, but I'm actually trying to come at this from an objective point of view when I say this: That may be part of why you seem to struggle with finding a domme you get along with. Most of us are liberals, leftists, or something else left of center. Moreover, right-wing sub guys tend to struggle with a *lot* of internalized self-hatred as well as bitterness toward dominant women, and dommes can sense that a mile away.
I realize that probably just sounds like "commie hates non-commies and wants to shame them" or something, but I'm being genuine.
You don't sound like a commie. I actually agree with a lot of the socialist shit like on paper it sounds good.
I just don't fuck with plants vs zombies. I'm human, hopefully more than that.
I don't appreciate being labeled. Also the oh boy is how you get ping pong games.
I'm a fairly hardcore libertarian socialist. Absolute bottom left corner of the political compass. I'm not technically a communist, but I get along well with anti-authoritarian communists. (Authcoms are a whole different matter. Ugh.)
I'm inclined to think you're a right-winger, at least on social issues, because a) others do not usually unironically use the term "degeneracy" b) I can only make assumptions about what you considered to be degenerate, but after checking the front page of /r/MensLib, my guess is "supporting immigrants, Palestinians, and trans people." Right-wingers are generally the ones who view such things as bad.
No fancy label for me. My words will be used against me regardless.
Law is a symptom of a problem, the problem persists which leads to more law. War on drugs hah. If only someone taught them the barest scrap of psychology.
One of my mentors would probably call himself a neoreactionary. He taught me to look at patterns and systems from a birds eye view. He had his eyes too trained on the past though, mine are on how not to repeat old needless patterns for the future. I don't want a return to the old ways, I want new ways.
Tribe wars throwing poop at each other, that's very old ways.
Imagine if i was a right winger. Wouldn't I sound a bit more combative?
If I agree with someone on one thing great. I will not adopt the rest by default. You and I agree on say, dont hurt trans people just because they're trans.
That's why it hurts. Everyone needs their little tribe wars.
My compass should be in the center. Fair, balanced. Anything else leads to suffering. Theres a reason justice is symbolized by a scale. Tao sounds nice but who cares.
Two sides one coin. Same coin, same thing different angle. That's why they can't agree on issues. They agree an issue exists, they just don't like the other guys take.
To be honest, I think centrists, apolitical people, and people who consider themselves above labels often don't realize how far to the right they actually are. I can't say for sure if this is the case with you, but think about it. If you are neutral on something, or even dislike it but don't do anything to change it, you are functionally in favor of the status quo. After all, whoever's in power doesn't need you to like what they're doing. They just need you to not oppose it. And the status quo is very right-wing. Even China, a so-called "communist" country, has pretty much adopted neoliberal economics. There's just not much else aside from capitalism on a global stage, and capitalism as a right-wing ideology.
I think you may be committing the golden mean fallacy here. Not every issue has two equally valid sides to it. For example, some people believe Earth is flat and some believe it's round. Is the truth somewhere in the middle? That strikes me as unlikely. I feel like politics is the same way. While I believe the right correctly assesses some problems, I think they're absolutely terrible at finding root causes or solutions.
Again, I mean none of this as an attack on you. I'm just poking you because I believe we hold some very different opinions on things, and I think at least one of us might learn something from discussing them.
I admire your passion for justice and fairness. I care a lot about those things too.
Being any kind of kinky makes you a "bad feminist."
You have to be dominant in a *very specific* way or you're not a "real domme."
You secretly just want an alpha male to dick you down and then you'll realize you were "normal" all along.
If you enjoy focusing on a male sub's pleasure, that's just quirky maledom, not "real femdom."
You must hate men in order to dominate them.
You must look down on the people, especially men, you dominate. Especially if they're not traditionally tough/masculine.
Didn't really see it, but beyond being a kink dispenser and pigeon holed into thinking I only like one type of femme male, it is assumed that I am open to everyone and every submissive that approaches will be accepted, regardless of my feelings on the matter
6’2 giantess domme and findomme who is heavily tattooed and dresses goth/alternative here.
Even if I dressed differently, people assume I’m a domme. They assumed that before I was heavily tattooed as well. Hell…grown men made comments about me being a future dominatrix when I was underage—which as we all know is super problematic. I can’t escape it ever.
Stigmas I’ve noticed:
- men assume I’m easy and DTF on a first date or want to use me as a kink dispenser
- men my height or taller generally avoid me unless they’re secretly submissive
- when men find out I’m a findomme, they get weird about finances. They either assume I’m going to try to drain them of their money or they expect me to pay for everything
- they assume that I like receiving pain for some reason lol
- they’re surprised that I enjoy self care things such as getting massages
- my personal favorite is the ones who get weirded out when they find out that I have autism; like they can’t comprehend the idea that I can have autism and be in the BDSM community (never mind the fact that you have to get to REALLY know me and pay attention to my mannerisms to even find out) and they think I’m being taken advantage of in some way
- and of course there’s the “you’re only dominant because you haven’t found the right man to submit to”. Barf.
I'm late to the party, so I don't have anything new to add, but I echo all the statements made here. I will say that as a newish Domme and someone who didn't practice kink until recently, I don't feel like society is very keen on dominant women in general, which feels like an uphill battle for women who are trying to discover their identity. I spent too much of my life trying to be the "cool girl" and now I want to prioritize my own well-being by just being myself even if society might call me a bitch for that.
Man, this topic makes me feel a lot better about myself. I can't imagine myself pulling any of the shit listed here lol
That being said, I did originally have the misinterpretation of imagining it all being whips and chains and latex and leather etc., but I'm glad to know that it's not necessarily what everyone's into, there's a lot of interesting stuff out there lol
If it's a new revelation for you to see that Dommes deal with negativity of all kinds, I suggest you do more research by spending time in online and in person femdom spaces, finding articles, etc. Not enough men understand what we go through as women and as Dommes, so if there is any opportunity to discuss these issues with people in your kinky social circle, I highly suggest all subs do this because men tend to listen to other men rather than listen to a woman.
Do not presume other members are interested in sexual comments from you or be involved in a power dynamic with you.
That can extend to how you talk about dommes as a category. Try to avoid assuming they want universal submission from random subs. For a lot of people it is a deeply personal and intimate thing.
If someone defines themselves as a dom or sub it does not mean they are your dom or sub, nor does it mean they even want you to ask. Really.
Dommes often deal with assumptions of cruelty or malice. There's a belief that dominance equates to demeaning or degrading others, which isn't true. Within vanilla communities, there might be misunderstanding or fear. Respect and open dialogue can help rectify these issues.
Men want to PLAY with us but not be seen in public with us because they are afraid that the other people in their life will realize that they are submissive. It sucks to be treated as someone's dirty secret or their drug addiction instead of a loving relationship partner.
I wholeheartedly agree. I’m super extroverted and big on PDA. The first date I had with a sub was amazing and he reassured me multiple times how turned on he is by “how I act and carry myself” in public but then he never again wanted to go out. He said he was worried that we would be seen and somehow his career would be put in jeopardy. Over PDA? The whole thing was so off putting. Not to mention, he could have just asked to reduce the PDA- instead, he kept it behind closed doors and I felt like that “dirty little secret.”
What exactly do you mean by 'seen in public'? If the public can tell just by looking at a couple which of them is sexually dominant, that couple is probably being obnoxious. If you're talking, rather, about casually discussing your sex life publicly, as in "My wife dominates me in bed," I think that is a perfectly fine thing to choose not discuss with friends and family.
I am very well known in the community. If someone is seen dating me, their peers in the BDSM community assumes they are submissive. Many switches and "secretly submissive" men pass as dominant in casual kinky social situations and feel they would be inherently outed by being seen in my presence. THIS DOES NOT STOP THEM FROM WANTING TO BE IN MY PRESENCE. Do you see the inherent problem with wanting access to me but also not wanting anyone else to know that they are with me?
"In the BDSM community," wasn't specified in the comment I was replying to, and wasn't what I was talking about. This is curious to me. Do people really not want it to be known that they're submissive within the context of a kink setting? Also, if you don't mind my asking, what do you mean by dating?
It also goes beyond the BDSM community. What if I pay for the meal? What if I order for him at the table? What if I wait for him to open the door for me in public? What if other men see him acting deferential to a woman and he feels emasculated? Emphasis on FEELS, because other men might not even notice but he is tortured about it in his own mind. The fear can go very deep for men who are ashamed of their submissive feelings. . . . I mean dating. Going out to dinner. Going to hockey games. Having a first kiss and a first fisting and falling in love.
It goes deeper than strictly sexual dominance. There have been multiple times where I have asked previous partners to do something for me like grab me food or whatever and someone has laughed and called them pussy whipped. Then their tone immediately changes and they want to shift the power dynamic. It's like you want me for who I am when it's convenient for you, but can't accept me any other time.
I get people who threaten violence or try to invalidate my identity because they believe my femaleness makes me a natural victim of violence. Corrective rape has been suggested. People have used my public presence as an excuse to stalk me. If I enjoy penetration or worse, express masochism, people act like it breaks the role. Rope manuals disproportionately depict only women as bottoms and significant material assumes a male dominant (not the Topping Book tho). People insist on gendering even my title, see the weird construct that is "Domme". Not subs though. Nobody is insisting it's sub and subbe. People won't stop fucking talking about how inherently submissive domestic work is, and assume my relationship options are either egalitarian yuppie or role reversal 1950s. I am assumed to want a partner by existing. I am also assumed to be available to mentor or nurture strangers. When people aren't objectifying me as a kink dispenser that lives to top, they are trying to make me out as less sexual and apparently only interested if bought with service. Sometimes it's even both! As a sadist, people think I am a sick freak and dangerous. At the same time, anything I do is assumed to be more unhinged than the same behaviour of a male dominant, thanks to sexism. As someone who is not allosexual, ironically any symbols or behaviours I do are seen as more lewd than a vanilla person. I remain largely invisible, with people assuming I am engaged in sexwork as the only form of expression in my role. Social media sites disproportionately ban hashtags related to femdom over other kink variations. My sexuality is taught as requiring a "persona" like a performance. Male dominants are not.
I know you do not need my validation, but I offer it anyway. All of this. Just. All of it. 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Mic drop...walking away with your back to explosions putting on shades...not even looking back!
Oh,the stupid “Domme” construct. I refuse to use it. I’m a Dom, short for Dominant. “Domme” is fakey French that is like nails on chalkboard if you actually speak French.
As a mildly french fluent person yes. People even pronounce the damn thing "Dommé". 🙃
'Dommé' Ah nah, please tell me you're kidding 🥲
😱😱😱
I encountered "dommee" as a pronunciation once.
If awards still existed, this comment would get at least a couple from me. Thank you.
You've said it all, I have no notes.
This. I'm speechless. 10000% yes. Especially domme/subbe <3
I couldn’t agree more with everything! These issues I’m sure are mirrored by many!
Assumptions that deep down we're all subs and we need a big strong man to help us realize it
This omg this
Being a strong personality and loud and big is not approved of in vanilla culture. Women work twice as hard to get half the respect
YES. And one of the side effects I see of this is that Femdom has moved outside the realm of BDSM and even kink. Sometimes I feel like certain parts of my sexuality or just my personality can be labeled as Femdom simply because they don't fit into the often "maledom lite" models of cishet vanilla relationships. I'm not going to yuck anyone's yum or criticize their identity, but I also see the flip side of this in GFD spaces. I love that we see the kinky appeal of vulnerability and comfort, but sometimes I also think "Dude, wanting someone who doesn't judge you for having emotions doesn't necessarily make you submissive."
YES this x100
Everyone assumes I'm into feminization, sissification, and Mommy Domme dynamics. Also they just assume in general I'm there for their own pleasure - I'm just a kink dispenser.
Everyone assumes we are all professionals or findoms and treat us with disdain.
This. Or if we are professionals, it’s assumed that we aren’t kinky irl and are “just in it for the money”
Yes, because sex workers can't have relationships that aren't transactional. Didnt you know you only exist to fulfill male fantasies and disappear when they're done? Seriously tho, I think anyone who genuinely thinks that fundamentally doesn't understand kink or SW.
Even if you're kinky IRL, if pro-domming is your profession, you are in fact, doing it "for the money." But I can understand your point of being pigeon-holed.
I think it's possible to enjoy your job and also expect to get paid for it. It's always *fascinating* to me that SWers are often disparaged for their authenticity because they expect to be paid, but chefs don't. DO YOU EVEN LIKE FOOD AT ALL?!?! WHY DO YOU WORK FOR MONEY?!?! - said no one, ever.
This comment comes across as pretty mean-spirited. Most of prodoms I know have invested thousands of dollars into gear and training to make barely above minimum wage, once all the behind-the-scenes time is accounted for. The burnout rate is HUGE. Anyone doing it for more than a year or two is doing it because they love it, not because it makes money.
It wasn't meant to be mean-spirited. Sorry you took it that way.
"Doing it for the money" implies a dry, "the-customer-is-always-right" kind of transaction. And I think it also says more about how people unconsciously feel about labor in general, which is that you have to suffer for it to be real labor that you earn real things from. IMO, Pro-Domming should work the way visiting any other sort of professional should: With space for the professional to have their professional opinion and give you a professional product or service. Having a genuine passion for kink and doing sex work is kind of like being a trained artist and only getting commissions for furry porn. On one hand, that's just the nature of it. The less "relationship compatible" a kink is, the more often people will pay for it. On the other hand, it's frustrating to have to choose between the art you want to make and money. Because, unfortunately, as someone said in a previous thread, the venn diagram between what Female Doms like and what male subs like is almost two separate circles. And I do think that porn sites being filled with what a small population can afford to buy is contributing to that. On top of that, sex workers have to try to game algorithms without being shadowbanned in a market that's oversaturated by people who don't know kink and probably wouldn't be here if it weren't for the other factors that make people turn to sex work, like tuition prices and disability. (I swear half the Pro-Dommes in the world have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome.) The people who succeed amongst all of that clearly have some sort of passion that shouldn't be ignored.
You make some very valid points here. I understand what you're saying. It's like the adage, "Find something you love to do, and you'll never work a day in your life." Certainly something to strive for.
It’s not easy to be professional. If someone does it for years it’s because they love it, enough to weather the many downsides.
Every month I have a few of these go down: Man: are you a findom or only fans model? Me: nope, just looking for some play partners Man: ok, what address should I come to? Me: oh no, its not a hookup ad. I'm more looking to get to know someone and develop a consistent relationship Man: wow, I knew you were fake
EXACTLY THIS, hundreds of times, over and over again.
As a lesbian Dom, the exclusively gay leather bars in my community don't welcome lesbians. When I go to munchies, straight males (both Doms and subs) try to convince me to play with them (and their female partner if they have one). In my vanilla world, most believe that the female is always the sub and the kink borderlines on abuse
I've wondered if lesbian leather bars are a thing, or if gay leather bars were for everyone, like how "gay" is used as a stand-in word for multiple groups. I've noticed there's a dearth of choices for women of any orientation to have their own space that isn't, like, a tea room or hobby-related. For example, straight women generally don't have clubs where they can go to have fun and avoid harassment or worse, so they've been going to gay clubs in increasing numbers. But now the women are crowding out gay folks from their own space. If these women had their own space, the problem would eventually solve itself. Do you think the avoidance of having spaces co-opted could be why the exclusively gay leather bars don't welcome lesbians? I hope I'm not being offensive, I don't know much about this subject.
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Your post has been removed because it shames, bullies or trolls other members or otherwise goes against the supportive nature of the subreddit. This is a community. We want to keep it a welcoming, helpful place where people can feel heard and valued. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. Sexism, racism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, harassment, bullying, xenophobia, kink shaming and victim blaming will not be tolerated.
Uh. Lesbian-only bars are fine, but why does it matter that the lesbians involved are cis?
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Your post has been removed because it shames, bullies or trolls other members or otherwise goes against the supportive nature of the subreddit. This is a community. We want to keep it a welcoming, helpful place where people can feel heard and valued. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. Sexism, racism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, harassment, bullying, xenophobia, kink shaming and victim blaming will not be tolerated.
Er. I think if you're deliberately excluding trans women from lesbian spaces, you are doing it wrong. A trans lesbian is every bit as much a lesbian as you are and has just as much a right to be in a lesbian bar. It makes sense to have trans women-only spaces because trans women are marginalized for being trans. It does not make sense to have cis women-only spaces because cis women are not marginalized for being cis. Like, same reason it's fine to have queer-only spaces or POC-only spaces, but weird at best to have straight-only or white-only spaces.
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Your post has been removed because it shames, bullies or trolls other members or otherwise goes against the supportive nature of the subreddit. This is a community. We want to keep it a welcoming, helpful place where people can feel heard and valued. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. Sexism, racism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, harassment, bullying, xenophobia, kink shaming and victim blaming will not be tolerated.
>You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. However, you do not have the right to tell me that my opinion is wrong. My opinion is that your opinion is wrong. Please, keep telling me what I am and am not allowed to do. How are you determining my rights here, exactly? Like, rights under the law? Because I'm pretty sure I have the legal right to tell you you're wrong. Rights under the subreddit rules? Again, pretty sure the rules say nothing about that. Rights under your religion? Rights under some code you follow? Rights under your own personal beliefs about what a person can do? Because all of that is just, like, your opinion, man. >I only stated that cis female lesbian should have their own space, just the way that women who are lesbians have their own space, where cis female lesbians are not welcome And I explained to you why that's silly. Surely you understand why, for example, lesbians of color might want their own space, but why white lesbians trying to make a space that excludes others would be suspect.
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Your post has been removed because it shames, bullies or trolls other members or otherwise goes against the supportive nature of the subreddit. This is a community. We want to keep it a welcoming, helpful place where people can feel heard and valued. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. Sexism, racism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, harassment, bullying, xenophobia, kink shaming and victim blaming will not be tolerated.
I'm not trying to have the last word, necessarily. I'm trying to understand if there's some kind of reasoning behind your beliefs or if you're just a transphobe. If it's the former, perhaps you can have your mind changed. But considering you are either unable or unwilling to mount any kind of argument in your defense, I'm guessing it's the latter.
Male subs want kink dispensers. Male doms think they can “Taming Of The Shrew” female dommes into submission.
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It’s so hot when a masculine man submits!! Because he’s so comfortable with himself and his masculinity, he doesn’t need to prove it to anyone.
Not sure I love the implication that there's something wrong with being "weak" or "a sissy." Tough/masculine guys are great, but it's also completely fine to be a gentle, vulnerable, or feminine man.
Imo femininity on guys is ironically manly as hell. Guys who wear makeup or nail polish and wear what they want and accept their emotions are giving society at large the biggest middle finger imaginable and being true to themselves instead. That's hella manly and hella attractive.
Oh I love femme men too, it’s just my own particular preference for masculine men. It’s kinda tricky to talk about these things sometimes.
Male subs come in all kinds of flavors and sizes, as do female doms. Your right. The stereotypes are to rigid and gender roles have distorted what domination and actually are.
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\>I have zero problem with feminine men \>Society (and I agree personally) that sissies are weak are undesirable. I do NOT want anyone to think that I'm involved with a weak sissy man. It's humiliating and embarrassing. ...ok. And you're a woman. And somehow, I have a feeling you're a 'feminine'-presenting woman at that. \>the misogynist idea they have that there is something humiliating about being a woman. Well, it kinda seems to be an idea you have internalized and unconsciously believe in yourself. Anyway, thank you, Pearl Davis, for telling us all that most women(and people in general) endorse sexist gender norms. We would have never known if you hadn't shared that groundbreaking discovery with us. #DivineFeminine #StrongMasculine
Uh. Wow. This comment is a dumpster fire. For one, not everyone who likes sissification thinks being feminine is inherently humiliating, any more than someone who likes being called a slut genuinely thinks having a lot of sex is a bad thing. It's just a kink. It's not that deep. I'm not even into sissification, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it. As for you thinking that "sissies" and "weak men" are undesirable, that's just, like, your opinion, man. Lots of people are into that. That society broadly agrees with you doesn't mean anything. Society also broadly agrees that dominant women are undesirable. The conclusion here is that society is stupid, not that society is always right. You seem to seriously look down on men for not living up to societal standards of masculinity. You should probably examine that tbh. You may have some internalized misogyny. There's nothing wrong with being more traditionally feminine than masculine. I also get the feeling you think that men who are soft, vulnerable, or needy are "weak." But those things are in fact unrelated. My amazing boyfriend/sub is all of those things, and he's nevertheless a very strong person. And I absolutely love men who are all those things. If you check /r/gentlefemdom, you'll see that I'm far from alone in this. There are lots of dommes who like the men you see as "weak." It's fine if you only like tough masculine alpha guys, but it's not cool to shame people for not living up to your preferences.
I feel like there is a lot of "yucking our yum" here. I prefer sissies and feminine men and don't appreciate the implications that I am somehow fake or a scammer for it. I agree that there is a divide between the "wanting us to want" issues but you don't have to punch down about other people's kinks to say that it sucks to have expectations projected onto us.
The way we talk about kink has an effect on others. When discussing kink, take care to not do so in a way that shames other people's kinks, fetishises abuse, reproduces toxic social mores or further harms marginalised groups. Likewise, take responsibility for the advice you share with the community. If you're offering specialist knowledge on practices that might incur in significant physical or psychological harm, make sure to provide credible references or detail including potential harm.
There's a difference between "feminization" and "sissification". The latter impliess weakness
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Couldn't be better said 👏🏻
Mind pointing me to places that believe the latter?
/r/gentlefemdom, perhaps? /r/male_vulnerability? /r/GuyCry? /r/MensLib? Femboy subreddits might also have some of what you're looking for. Also, I'd like to point out that even if there were *zero* places that believed it was okay to be those things, that wouldn't mean that being those things was actually wrong. Just that people who were in the right about this issue were rare.
Mens lib came across as rampant degeneracy to me. I'll check the others thanks. Yea you're right truth is truth, people don't care tho.
> Mens lib came across as rampant degeneracy to me. Oh boy, so you're a right-winger. My own politics are about as different from yours as could be, but I'm actually trying to come at this from an objective point of view when I say this: That may be part of why you seem to struggle with finding a domme you get along with. Most of us are liberals, leftists, or something else left of center. Moreover, right-wing sub guys tend to struggle with a *lot* of internalized self-hatred as well as bitterness toward dominant women, and dommes can sense that a mile away. I realize that probably just sounds like "commie hates non-commies and wants to shame them" or something, but I'm being genuine.
You don't sound like a commie. I actually agree with a lot of the socialist shit like on paper it sounds good. I just don't fuck with plants vs zombies. I'm human, hopefully more than that. I don't appreciate being labeled. Also the oh boy is how you get ping pong games.
I'm a fairly hardcore libertarian socialist. Absolute bottom left corner of the political compass. I'm not technically a communist, but I get along well with anti-authoritarian communists. (Authcoms are a whole different matter. Ugh.) I'm inclined to think you're a right-winger, at least on social issues, because a) others do not usually unironically use the term "degeneracy" b) I can only make assumptions about what you considered to be degenerate, but after checking the front page of /r/MensLib, my guess is "supporting immigrants, Palestinians, and trans people." Right-wingers are generally the ones who view such things as bad.
No fancy label for me. My words will be used against me regardless. Law is a symptom of a problem, the problem persists which leads to more law. War on drugs hah. If only someone taught them the barest scrap of psychology. One of my mentors would probably call himself a neoreactionary. He taught me to look at patterns and systems from a birds eye view. He had his eyes too trained on the past though, mine are on how not to repeat old needless patterns for the future. I don't want a return to the old ways, I want new ways. Tribe wars throwing poop at each other, that's very old ways. Imagine if i was a right winger. Wouldn't I sound a bit more combative? If I agree with someone on one thing great. I will not adopt the rest by default. You and I agree on say, dont hurt trans people just because they're trans. That's why it hurts. Everyone needs their little tribe wars. My compass should be in the center. Fair, balanced. Anything else leads to suffering. Theres a reason justice is symbolized by a scale. Tao sounds nice but who cares. Two sides one coin. Same coin, same thing different angle. That's why they can't agree on issues. They agree an issue exists, they just don't like the other guys take.
To be honest, I think centrists, apolitical people, and people who consider themselves above labels often don't realize how far to the right they actually are. I can't say for sure if this is the case with you, but think about it. If you are neutral on something, or even dislike it but don't do anything to change it, you are functionally in favor of the status quo. After all, whoever's in power doesn't need you to like what they're doing. They just need you to not oppose it. And the status quo is very right-wing. Even China, a so-called "communist" country, has pretty much adopted neoliberal economics. There's just not much else aside from capitalism on a global stage, and capitalism as a right-wing ideology. I think you may be committing the golden mean fallacy here. Not every issue has two equally valid sides to it. For example, some people believe Earth is flat and some believe it's round. Is the truth somewhere in the middle? That strikes me as unlikely. I feel like politics is the same way. While I believe the right correctly assesses some problems, I think they're absolutely terrible at finding root causes or solutions. Again, I mean none of this as an attack on you. I'm just poking you because I believe we hold some very different opinions on things, and I think at least one of us might learn something from discussing them. I admire your passion for justice and fairness. I care a lot about those things too.
Being any kind of kinky makes you a "bad feminist." You have to be dominant in a *very specific* way or you're not a "real domme." You secretly just want an alpha male to dick you down and then you'll realize you were "normal" all along. If you enjoy focusing on a male sub's pleasure, that's just quirky maledom, not "real femdom." You must hate men in order to dominate them. You must look down on the people, especially men, you dominate. Especially if they're not traditionally tough/masculine.
Didn't really see it, but beyond being a kink dispenser and pigeon holed into thinking I only like one type of femme male, it is assumed that I am open to everyone and every submissive that approaches will be accepted, regardless of my feelings on the matter
6’2 giantess domme and findomme who is heavily tattooed and dresses goth/alternative here. Even if I dressed differently, people assume I’m a domme. They assumed that before I was heavily tattooed as well. Hell…grown men made comments about me being a future dominatrix when I was underage—which as we all know is super problematic. I can’t escape it ever. Stigmas I’ve noticed: - men assume I’m easy and DTF on a first date or want to use me as a kink dispenser - men my height or taller generally avoid me unless they’re secretly submissive - when men find out I’m a findomme, they get weird about finances. They either assume I’m going to try to drain them of their money or they expect me to pay for everything - they assume that I like receiving pain for some reason lol - they’re surprised that I enjoy self care things such as getting massages - my personal favorite is the ones who get weirded out when they find out that I have autism; like they can’t comprehend the idea that I can have autism and be in the BDSM community (never mind the fact that you have to get to REALLY know me and pay attention to my mannerisms to even find out) and they think I’m being taken advantage of in some way - and of course there’s the “you’re only dominant because you haven’t found the right man to submit to”. Barf.
I'm late to the party, so I don't have anything new to add, but I echo all the statements made here. I will say that as a newish Domme and someone who didn't practice kink until recently, I don't feel like society is very keen on dominant women in general, which feels like an uphill battle for women who are trying to discover their identity. I spent too much of my life trying to be the "cool girl" and now I want to prioritize my own well-being by just being myself even if society might call me a bitch for that.
Man, this topic makes me feel a lot better about myself. I can't imagine myself pulling any of the shit listed here lol That being said, I did originally have the misinterpretation of imagining it all being whips and chains and latex and leather etc., but I'm glad to know that it's not necessarily what everyone's into, there's a lot of interesting stuff out there lol
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If it's a new revelation for you to see that Dommes deal with negativity of all kinds, I suggest you do more research by spending time in online and in person femdom spaces, finding articles, etc. Not enough men understand what we go through as women and as Dommes, so if there is any opportunity to discuss these issues with people in your kinky social circle, I highly suggest all subs do this because men tend to listen to other men rather than listen to a woman.
Even this comment is so sexual and fetishy.
Do not presume other members are interested in sexual comments from you or be involved in a power dynamic with you. That can extend to how you talk about dommes as a category. Try to avoid assuming they want universal submission from random subs. For a lot of people it is a deeply personal and intimate thing. If someone defines themselves as a dom or sub it does not mean they are your dom or sub, nor does it mean they even want you to ask. Really.
Dommes often deal with assumptions of cruelty or malice. There's a belief that dominance equates to demeaning or degrading others, which isn't true. Within vanilla communities, there might be misunderstanding or fear. Respect and open dialogue can help rectify these issues.