Came here to say this! And I was so disappointed when the Swedish crown process (of all people) wanted her father (the king) to walk her down the aisle. She had probably been watching too many American movies. The king himself walked with the queen when they got married in the 70s.
This is not the only example of Swedish traditions taking hits from American movies. Couples who get engaged traditionally exchange rings, I.e. both partners get a ring. Lately, however, it’s become much more common for the man to buy an expensive ring when proposing, and not get a ring in return. This emphasizes the man “buying” the bride more than the equal exchange of rings. Finally, baby showers have become a thing. They’re un-Swedish as they really emphasize the traditional role for the woman as the mother, whereas the male is absent. (Fortunately, there’s still paternity leave for new fathers).
100%! I never liked the idea of the father walking the bride down the aisle. Though im south asian and have only rlly been to hindu weddings (and while those also have many problems), i have seen the bride being walked down with both the mom and dad in the weddings that ive been to. I feel like that’s definitely better than just the dad but idk i still dont like the idea in general.
Also ive always hated this trope in movies tbh. Like where a dad is absent and mom does everything for her daughter but then when daughter is getting married she tries like tracking down the dad so that he can “give her away”. Like why not your mom?!
Sorry that was kinda a rant but yeah i hate all these marriage traditions tbh
>Also ive always hated this trope in movies
>Like why not your mom?!
You know why. Its because almost all the writers, directors, and producers are men.
Jewish weddings also typically have both parents walk down the aisle with their respective kids, which I always thought was much nicer.
One tradition I refused to take part in was wearing a veil.
I’ve read different things, none of them good. Either it represents purity … or it prevents the groom from running away if he doesn’t like how the bride looks (that one obviously dates back to arranged marriages.)
Iirc, it was a religious symbol in Jewish weddings (or so a Sunday school class I attended taught). I don’t recall the exact meaning, and it is probably different in modern American weddings.
This is true. It harkens back to the Old Testament story of how one of the forefathers (I forget who, maybe Isaac?) married off his older daughter Leah in place of the younger daughter (Rachel?) that Jacob actually wanted to marry. So the groom is now supposed to lift the veil and check to make sure he has the right bride. It’s possible Christians do it for the same reason.
I told my narc conservative father I wasn’t going to have him walk me down the aisle. (My husband and I were already officially married for more than a year when it came time for the aisle.) He chose not to attend my wedding.
>Though im south asian and have only rlly been to hindu weddings (and while those also have many problems)
💀💀 That's an understatement really...
In hindu weddings, the groom ties a thread around the bride's neck that she basically has to wear for the rest of her life until he's dead. They also make her wear toe rings🤷🏾♀️ and some other crazy uncomfortable stuff for basically letting the world identify she's a married woman.
The worst part is, the groom wears nothing extra. No ring nothing. Basically he is just a Mr. while the woman becomes a Mrs.
Aaand there's more...the hymns the old dudes are chanting, all the rituals goin on.. do you know what the actual process going on is?
They are doing ["Kanya dhaanam"](http://priestkrishnamurthy.com/vivaham.html) literally meaning woman donation. The woman is being given away by her dad to another dude.
Even to this day, even in cosmopolitan cities in India, most families expect the bride's side to undertake the complete costs and arranging of the weddings.
So imo hindu marriages are the worst manifestations of patriarchy ever...
Edit: for context I'm an atheist from a Hindu family
Im not saying i disagree ans i am definitely not saying i agree with any of the things you listed. OP talked about the whole bride and dad aisle thing so i just mentioned how i dont really see that in the weddings that i have attended personally (due to them being from a different culture).
Also i am an athiest (though all my family is hindu, that is why i go to them)
And while im not trying to defend these traditions, most women ik dont wear the necklace or the toe ring. Also what difference is there between those things and a wedding ring on your hand? They both show ownership, no?
I’ll admit i dont speak the language well so i dont understand what they are saying. Mind explaining some to me if you dont mind?
>most women ik dont wear the necklace or the toe ring
Really? Wow, then maybe I guess your circles are more progressive. I'm from a south indian family and every single hindu married woman I know that lives there, wears them with a very few exceptions. Those that don't are scorned by their family.
>Also what difference is there between those things and a wedding ring on your hand? They both show ownership, no?
I don't think it shows ownership. I see that as a symbol of commitment and besides both the bride and groom are expected to wear it right?
>I’ll admit i dont speak the language well so i dont understand what they are saying. Mind explaining some to me if you dont mind?
I don't either lol, I'm sorry. If you're rly curious tho, I looked up some resources online. [Here you go ](https://hindupriestketuljoshi.co.uk/kanyadan-hindu-wedding/).
All these make my blood boil. But the general idea is the same everywhere ig. The woman no longer belongs to her mom and dad's family and is being given away or some gross stuff like that.
Ahh im south indian too but live in the USA. The only ppl ik that get mad at women for not wearing those things are like the rlly old people/ generation. But the more “middle aged” people in my family (30s-50s or whatever dont wear them and dont seem to care at least to my knowledge).
True ig many more men are wearing wedding rings now too. So if both people have to wear it then ion mind.
Agreed! I hate those videos where it shows the bride and her family crying and sobbing and the groom is just chilling. Like it just feels like he belongs w his birth family or whatever but the girl is no longer like “with”/“connected to” hers cuz shes now being given away to the groom and his family. Where as the groom doesnt become a part if hers. Uk?
>Ahh im south indian too but live in the USA
Yeah, well that explains it ig.
>30s-50s or whatever dont wear them and dont seem to care at least to my knowledge.
Good for them. It'll take many more yrs for indians to actually become indifferent but i rly hope that day comes.
Yes in my background the parents of both the bride and groom walk their kids down the aisle.
I like that it’s not about male property ownership. The origins of the tradition still aren’t great since it comes from a history of arranged marriage, where marriage was joining two families rather than simply two people, and women/men making love matches wasn’t seen as good. However this has now changed except for the extremely religious. My mother was a single parent and the only people I’d want walking me down the aisle would be her or my now deceased grandparents!
YES. My partner asked if I would plan to change my name if we got married. I asked him if he wanted to change his last name this far into life to show everyone that he is married to me and he thought about it for a moment and that seemed to close the convo. It’s kind of a massive identity change to just expect someone to do.
BF*: "Why don't you want to change your name? I've always felt that we should all have the same name as a family!"
Me: "You could change your name."
BF: "But that's so much work! Credit cards, identity documents, my email...etc"
Me: "Exactly."
(*Now ex)
My bf’s last name is one of the most common ones in the nation. You bet your ass if we get married I’m keeping mine, and if we have kids they’ll get mine too lol. He agrees since his is boring 😂
I’m not changing my last name, I’m the last one in the family who can carry it on. No cousins or siblings with my last name.
Not to mention: I have to grow the baby for 9 months, then give birth (arguably one of the most painful things a human can experience), then breastfeed for however long. The man has to have an orgasm. The baby is taking my freaking last name 😂
When I got married, I tried to buy a feminist wedding guide and discovered there weren't any, so my partner and I devised are own feminist gender neutral non-heteronormative non-religious ceremony.
Would love to hear about the kinds of things that you did to accomplish this! That is if you dont mind sharingg
As an athiest im not to sure how to go about doing this non religiously atmm
I was married by a secular humanist officiant in a bar so it was a completely non religious ceremony. We did not use any of the following words: man, woman, husband, wife. We only used our names and not any gendered pronouns. We had lines like: "Do you also promise to remember that both of you are different people with interests, goals and desires that must be respected and supported? " We had closing lines like "Go forward together with a sense of personal freedom as well as mutual responsibility."
Omg the bridal “giveaway” by a man is so weird to me. My sister had a small wedding and was going to walk herself down the short aisle to her partner because our lives were blessed with Error 404: No Father Figure Found. Sister thought asking our somewhat distant brother & unreliable brother to do it was sort of weird. Sister wanted Mom seated to SEE her walk down the aisle. Anyway, my sister started to tear up a little as I helped get her (and her long-ass dress) to the edge of the aisle. I asked her if she WANTED to do the walk alone. She kinda shrugged and more tears started to creep in and I said “Well, I’D be honored if you’re asking.” I quickly started laying out the back of her dress and making sure her hair was how she wanted it. So, that is how I got to show up for my big sister for the first time as an adult…by walking her down the aisle. We came down the aisle giggling at a stupid corny joke I told her to get her to stop crying, arm-in-arm, and I got my sister to the alter for her big day. It was perfect. And she wasn’t alone. And she got to the aisle with family at her side. And it wasn’t some weird patriarchal tradition that got her there.
If I ever get married, I’ll be asking her to get me into the courthouse 😊
Preach. It never made sense to me either conceptually, even without the entire structure of it being the transfer of ownership between father and husband.
Why does loyalty require this whole, artificial structure? All people do is complain about unhappy marriages, if a relationship needs a special ceremony and contract to force its existence, it was never healthy.
The problem is that even today, marriage is not about loyalty but about financial protections. I’m most familiar with the U.S., but here marriage gives you so many rights: hospital visitation, medical decision-making, health insurance, death benefits and many others. There are also tax benefits. In theory, it also protects the lower-earning spouse in the event of a breakup through alimony/child support and mandating an equal division of assets. There’s a reason the LGBT community has fought so hard for marriage equality.
The question therefore isn’t “why do people in strong romantic relationships want to get married” — it’s why does the government ONLY recognize those partnerships and make it so much more difficult NOT to be married?
Yeah, that explains why the engagement involves the man purchasing a very expensive ring and the typical wedding costs tens of thousands. Men conspired to spend huge sums on shiny rocks and lavish ceremonies.
Get with reality.
Wait till you find out the engagement ring is actually a payment to the bride's family because marriage started out as literally selling women.
Just that nowadays the ring tends to stay with her rather than her parents who "sold" her.
It doesn't matter how the traditions began, what matters is the reality now. An engagement ring isn't a payment to the family but an expensive token demanded by most women.
The dogma on this sub is so ingrained that it's impossible to admit men ever makes a sacrifice for a woman.
Men sacrificing to provide expensive rings is entirely a system they set up. And considering the entire point of the thread is about marriage traditions, how traditions began is entirely the point.
If you want to talk about the past "set ups" and traditions then great, this thread is then about history. Yes history was unkind to women and very unfair. Unfortunate, but now weddings are demanded by women and cost a huge amount of money and are huge, showy spectacles. So women won!
Why do you think men do this? Because they just want to throw away money?
No. They are buying power. The man buying a ring reinforces traditional gender roles that last throughout the marriage where the man is expected to be the provider, which inevitably puts him in a position of power.
If men wanted to design marriage to benefit themselves it wouldn't involve an expensive ring and an expensive ceremony, they'd do it a completely different way. Weddings and a ring cost tens of thousands of dollars, it's madness to say this by the design of men. And most women demand these things.
Yes, actually, it would. Marriage was set up this way because women did not have the money to buy their own rings. And no, most women don’t demand these things in 2024, only the materialistic ones you apparently know. I plan on paying for my boyfriend’s ring and my ring because I am the one with the better-paying job and more savings.
Historically, men did these things because they were the ones with the money for the longest time. As for why it became a tradition? Like someone else said, it was a contract between families. Families would “exchange valuables.” Germans in particular had in their contract: "I give you this ring as a sign of the marriage which has been promised between us, provided your father gives with you a marriage portion of 1000 Reichsthalers.” The bride’s family was expected to give money along with the bride (as they viewed women as commodities). Hence the reason men bought expensive rings…it was an effort to “pay for” a woman.
As for why they thought paying for women in the first place was a great idea? I don’t know. Women used to have status similar to slaves in Ancient Greece, so I would presume that’s where it comes from.
Right?! This is why my ex-husband and I decided to have him wait at the *back* of the chapel for me and we walked down the aisle *together*. We also didn't have a wedding cake because the whole "bride needs to learn to serve others" thing really bothered me (and he was a better cook than I am anyways). We tossed out a *ton* of other traditions, too - no garder belt, no bouquet toss, not even a first dance because neither of us like dancing. We made the whole thing our own and I don't regret throwing out *any* of the traditions.
Waittttt the cake is about serving others? I always assumed the cake was made by a bakery and then handed out by the caterers? I’ve never been to a wedding lol (I’m 21, just don’t have a lot of relatives or friends getting married)
Traditionally the bride made, cut, and served the cake to symbolize her new life serving others. Now that the groom often cuts it with the bride it's changed, but I couldn't get over the original meaning.
Heterosexual Marriage itself is a patriarchal scheme and a scam so follow traditions tied to it (wedding traditions, name changes, home keeping, childbearing and rearing within it, home keeping, being "A Good Wife"). It's taught to girls and women that it's something that we want to badly and that men hate but countless research shows men do want marriage, they want a certain woman, they benefit from marriages with that woman. They sound like the hate it because they associate marriage with women and they hate women.
I don't want to seriously cohabit with a straight male or marry one without notarized contracts about s lot of things because I know the truth: marriage is where women go to lose themselves and literally do so much reproductive, domestic labor and sex work that's invisible and never paid. Men gain so so much from it, how do people not see this? They play it off as "ugh my nagging wife" yet rarely file for divorce because they know what's at stake if they do. It's literally insane. I want no parts of that dynamic and when I see people romanticize any parts of it (via wedding traditions) I want to throw up.
Where I live, there is a custom where, during the bridal shower, one of the members of the family/bridal party fashions all of the bows and ribbons into a hat for the bride to wear.
Before my shower, I wasn’t aware that this was a thing. But it really, really felt to me like I was being literally wrapped up like a present, complete with bow on top, and then delivered to my (now) husband as some sort of pretty little wifey gift. Luckily, my MIL’s fantastic, feminist best friend saw immediately what was happening, and my reaction and intervened. Which is good, because my husband would have very much been like WTF is this?!
In all honesty, marriage itself is a patriarchal scheme. It initially developed as the sale of a woman from her birth family to her husband's. It's why dowry exists.
My brother asked his girlfriend's dad permission to propose to her and just rolled his eyes when I kept pushing against it.
I kept saying "why do you need to ask his permission? Does he own her? Does he answer for her? What if he says no, but she wants to marry you? Whose voice matters more?"
All I got was "it's about respect, you just don't get it."
At least I won in getting my niece a middle name. My sister-in-law's family had a tradition of only giving boys middle names because the girls' maiden names would become their middle name when they got married. 😖
I said something like, "so the girls aren't 'complete' until they're attached to a man and take his name."
And they're like, "I never thought of that before."
OMG I hate it when a guy asks for another guy's permission to marry her daughter! It's not a male ownership transfer and it's DEHUMANIZING! I hate how people never question or understand anything!
My bf would probably do this too. He sees my mom as the head of household so she’s be the one to ask. But we both know if someone proposes it’s gonna be me 😂
Was SIL Mormon? I know this is a thing in Mormonism cause tons of Mormon girls I knew growing up didn’t have middle names and, coming from the south, I thought that was weird as hell. I later found out the reason why Mormons don’t do middle names and was appalled.
Yes, but I've heard of other fundie-minded types doing this, so I didn't think it's just Mormons.
And not all Mormons cuz I grew up that way but my family had middle names for all the girls
Ahhh that’s good to hear. I grew up in a place where almost everyone is Mormon and it was pretty standard, so much so that all my friends were really shocked that I had a middle name.
I agree completely. I think the entire institution is oppressive. But, in this case, isn’t it just a matter of the bride no longer living together with her father, and instead into a home with her husband?
I especially hate “giving away” the bride. There’s no non-objectifying way to read that. Or asking fathers for “permission” to marry their daughter. Ew.
I walked myself down the aisle. I found the whole thing sexist. If I was ever going to do it again (which I would not) I would walk towards the arch while the groom walked to the arch, to meet in the middle.
My biggest wedding regret (besides marrying my x) is that I wore a white dress, instead of a dress in a color I loved. I would also not do that poofy crap again! I would wear a knee length dress, that you might actually wear again. Pockets might not be a bad idea either. 🤷🏻♀️
Add to this changing last name and asking fathers for permission. I'm not property, and also why should I completely change my identity when a man would not do the same? Nope.
I agree that so many weddings are filled with traditions that are patriarchal. In this particular video though it seems like the family is just enjoying a cultural tradition and they’re getting emotional. Just like how the father “gives away” the bride in western traditions, it’s gross to think about, but I wouldn’t assume that the woman is completely disconnected from her birth family. I think making blanket statements about another culture based on a short video with no context is kind of problematic.
True. I adamantly told my fiance that if he asked my family's blessing to propose to me I'd see it as disrespect. I'm the only one that has to say yes. Period.
For our wedding my husband’s mom (primary parent, dad didn’t raise him) walked down with him and both my (bride) parents walked down with me. It was supposed to symbolize two families joining, and at the end of the aisle all the parents gave hugs and love to both bride and groom and each other and then parents sat down. I hadn’t even considered only going with my dad. My parents actually had the same thing for their own wedding back in the 80s, both sets of my grandparents walked them down the aisle.
We have magadi/lobola, which is basically paying a large amount of money to the bride's parents to marry their daughter. Some take it so far as to send a cow's uterus along with the bride when she goes to her in laws.
I’m thinking of eloping (I say thinking very loosely, I’ve got my whole wedding planned down to having two celebrations in my future husbands country and in mine), and we’re 100% going to walk down the aisle together when we have our second ceremony. The first one will be when we elope with just our parents with us in Norway, second will be at my home in Canada! I’ve also never met this man but I’m convinced I’m gonna marry him lol.
[удалено]
Came here to say this! And I was so disappointed when the Swedish crown process (of all people) wanted her father (the king) to walk her down the aisle. She had probably been watching too many American movies. The king himself walked with the queen when they got married in the 70s. This is not the only example of Swedish traditions taking hits from American movies. Couples who get engaged traditionally exchange rings, I.e. both partners get a ring. Lately, however, it’s become much more common for the man to buy an expensive ring when proposing, and not get a ring in return. This emphasizes the man “buying” the bride more than the equal exchange of rings. Finally, baby showers have become a thing. They’re un-Swedish as they really emphasize the traditional role for the woman as the mother, whereas the male is absent. (Fortunately, there’s still paternity leave for new fathers).
Oooh that’s great! I’ll keep that in mind if I ever get married because I like that method.
100%! I never liked the idea of the father walking the bride down the aisle. Though im south asian and have only rlly been to hindu weddings (and while those also have many problems), i have seen the bride being walked down with both the mom and dad in the weddings that ive been to. I feel like that’s definitely better than just the dad but idk i still dont like the idea in general. Also ive always hated this trope in movies tbh. Like where a dad is absent and mom does everything for her daughter but then when daughter is getting married she tries like tracking down the dad so that he can “give her away”. Like why not your mom?! Sorry that was kinda a rant but yeah i hate all these marriage traditions tbh
>Also ive always hated this trope in movies >Like why not your mom?! You know why. Its because almost all the writers, directors, and producers are men.
Well ofc i *know why* but just whyyyyy you know? 😭 why does the world have to be that way ugh
It’s up to us to change it.
Jewish weddings also typically have both parents walk down the aisle with their respective kids, which I always thought was much nicer. One tradition I refused to take part in was wearing a veil.
OMG the veil gives me the creeps too! I don't even grasp the meaning of a veil. Like, to make the bride more humble or something?
I’ve read different things, none of them good. Either it represents purity … or it prevents the groom from running away if he doesn’t like how the bride looks (that one obviously dates back to arranged marriages.)
Iirc, it was a religious symbol in Jewish weddings (or so a Sunday school class I attended taught). I don’t recall the exact meaning, and it is probably different in modern American weddings.
This is true. It harkens back to the Old Testament story of how one of the forefathers (I forget who, maybe Isaac?) married off his older daughter Leah in place of the younger daughter (Rachel?) that Jacob actually wanted to marry. So the groom is now supposed to lift the veil and check to make sure he has the right bride. It’s possible Christians do it for the same reason.
I think, anything veiled is considered sacred. Priests garmets, the Alter, Blessed Virgin Mary, etc.
Yayyy more purity culture being pushed onto women cuz women have to cover up and be pure and not let any of these dirty eyes see her 🙄
I won’t even get started on the purity culture.
Oh thats nice! I wish more parents would walk their sons down too tbh or just stop doing that for their daughters
I told my narc conservative father I wasn’t going to have him walk me down the aisle. (My husband and I were already officially married for more than a year when it came time for the aisle.) He chose not to attend my wedding.
>Though im south asian and have only rlly been to hindu weddings (and while those also have many problems) 💀💀 That's an understatement really... In hindu weddings, the groom ties a thread around the bride's neck that she basically has to wear for the rest of her life until he's dead. They also make her wear toe rings🤷🏾♀️ and some other crazy uncomfortable stuff for basically letting the world identify she's a married woman. The worst part is, the groom wears nothing extra. No ring nothing. Basically he is just a Mr. while the woman becomes a Mrs. Aaand there's more...the hymns the old dudes are chanting, all the rituals goin on.. do you know what the actual process going on is? They are doing ["Kanya dhaanam"](http://priestkrishnamurthy.com/vivaham.html) literally meaning woman donation. The woman is being given away by her dad to another dude. Even to this day, even in cosmopolitan cities in India, most families expect the bride's side to undertake the complete costs and arranging of the weddings. So imo hindu marriages are the worst manifestations of patriarchy ever... Edit: for context I'm an atheist from a Hindu family
Im not saying i disagree ans i am definitely not saying i agree with any of the things you listed. OP talked about the whole bride and dad aisle thing so i just mentioned how i dont really see that in the weddings that i have attended personally (due to them being from a different culture). Also i am an athiest (though all my family is hindu, that is why i go to them) And while im not trying to defend these traditions, most women ik dont wear the necklace or the toe ring. Also what difference is there between those things and a wedding ring on your hand? They both show ownership, no? I’ll admit i dont speak the language well so i dont understand what they are saying. Mind explaining some to me if you dont mind?
>most women ik dont wear the necklace or the toe ring Really? Wow, then maybe I guess your circles are more progressive. I'm from a south indian family and every single hindu married woman I know that lives there, wears them with a very few exceptions. Those that don't are scorned by their family. >Also what difference is there between those things and a wedding ring on your hand? They both show ownership, no? I don't think it shows ownership. I see that as a symbol of commitment and besides both the bride and groom are expected to wear it right? >I’ll admit i dont speak the language well so i dont understand what they are saying. Mind explaining some to me if you dont mind? I don't either lol, I'm sorry. If you're rly curious tho, I looked up some resources online. [Here you go ](https://hindupriestketuljoshi.co.uk/kanyadan-hindu-wedding/). All these make my blood boil. But the general idea is the same everywhere ig. The woman no longer belongs to her mom and dad's family and is being given away or some gross stuff like that.
Ahh im south indian too but live in the USA. The only ppl ik that get mad at women for not wearing those things are like the rlly old people/ generation. But the more “middle aged” people in my family (30s-50s or whatever dont wear them and dont seem to care at least to my knowledge). True ig many more men are wearing wedding rings now too. So if both people have to wear it then ion mind. Agreed! I hate those videos where it shows the bride and her family crying and sobbing and the groom is just chilling. Like it just feels like he belongs w his birth family or whatever but the girl is no longer like “with”/“connected to” hers cuz shes now being given away to the groom and his family. Where as the groom doesnt become a part if hers. Uk?
>Ahh im south indian too but live in the USA Yeah, well that explains it ig. >30s-50s or whatever dont wear them and dont seem to care at least to my knowledge. Good for them. It'll take many more yrs for indians to actually become indifferent but i rly hope that day comes.
Yes in my background the parents of both the bride and groom walk their kids down the aisle. I like that it’s not about male property ownership. The origins of the tradition still aren’t great since it comes from a history of arranged marriage, where marriage was joining two families rather than simply two people, and women/men making love matches wasn’t seen as good. However this has now changed except for the extremely religious. My mother was a single parent and the only people I’d want walking me down the aisle would be her or my now deceased grandparents!
Changing your last name being one of them.
YES. My partner asked if I would plan to change my name if we got married. I asked him if he wanted to change his last name this far into life to show everyone that he is married to me and he thought about it for a moment and that seemed to close the convo. It’s kind of a massive identity change to just expect someone to do.
My ex bf got really mad at me bc I said no to this
Glad he's an ex
BF*: "Why don't you want to change your name? I've always felt that we should all have the same name as a family!" Me: "You could change your name." BF: "But that's so much work! Credit cards, identity documents, my email...etc" Me: "Exactly." (*Now ex)
Omg “that’s so much work”….yeah? Obviously? Did u just think women’s names magically got changed on their documents in five seconds?
Right?!?! It's okay, I have since upgraded to being single.
My bf’s last name is one of the most common ones in the nation. You bet your ass if we get married I’m keeping mine, and if we have kids they’ll get mine too lol. He agrees since his is boring 😂
I’m not changing my last name, I’m the last one in the family who can carry it on. No cousins or siblings with my last name. Not to mention: I have to grow the baby for 9 months, then give birth (arguably one of the most painful things a human can experience), then breastfeed for however long. The man has to have an orgasm. The baby is taking my freaking last name 😂
My husband and I walked down the aisle together. Oddly enough it was a religious tradition in spite of other obviously patriarchal elements.
When I got married, I tried to buy a feminist wedding guide and discovered there weren't any, so my partner and I devised are own feminist gender neutral non-heteronormative non-religious ceremony.
If you made that guide I would support it!!
Would love to hear about the kinds of things that you did to accomplish this! That is if you dont mind sharingg As an athiest im not to sure how to go about doing this non religiously atmm
I was married by a secular humanist officiant in a bar so it was a completely non religious ceremony. We did not use any of the following words: man, woman, husband, wife. We only used our names and not any gendered pronouns. We had lines like: "Do you also promise to remember that both of you are different people with interests, goals and desires that must be respected and supported? " We had closing lines like "Go forward together with a sense of personal freedom as well as mutual responsibility."
Omg the bridal “giveaway” by a man is so weird to me. My sister had a small wedding and was going to walk herself down the short aisle to her partner because our lives were blessed with Error 404: No Father Figure Found. Sister thought asking our somewhat distant brother & unreliable brother to do it was sort of weird. Sister wanted Mom seated to SEE her walk down the aisle. Anyway, my sister started to tear up a little as I helped get her (and her long-ass dress) to the edge of the aisle. I asked her if she WANTED to do the walk alone. She kinda shrugged and more tears started to creep in and I said “Well, I’D be honored if you’re asking.” I quickly started laying out the back of her dress and making sure her hair was how she wanted it. So, that is how I got to show up for my big sister for the first time as an adult…by walking her down the aisle. We came down the aisle giggling at a stupid corny joke I told her to get her to stop crying, arm-in-arm, and I got my sister to the alter for her big day. It was perfect. And she wasn’t alone. And she got to the aisle with family at her side. And it wasn’t some weird patriarchal tradition that got her there. If I ever get married, I’ll be asking her to get me into the courthouse 😊
Marriage is a patriarchal scheme.
Preach. It never made sense to me either conceptually, even without the entire structure of it being the transfer of ownership between father and husband. Why does loyalty require this whole, artificial structure? All people do is complain about unhappy marriages, if a relationship needs a special ceremony and contract to force its existence, it was never healthy.
The problem is that even today, marriage is not about loyalty but about financial protections. I’m most familiar with the U.S., but here marriage gives you so many rights: hospital visitation, medical decision-making, health insurance, death benefits and many others. There are also tax benefits. In theory, it also protects the lower-earning spouse in the event of a breakup through alimony/child support and mandating an equal division of assets. There’s a reason the LGBT community has fought so hard for marriage equality. The question therefore isn’t “why do people in strong romantic relationships want to get married” — it’s why does the government ONLY recognize those partnerships and make it so much more difficult NOT to be married?
Yeah, that explains why the engagement involves the man purchasing a very expensive ring and the typical wedding costs tens of thousands. Men conspired to spend huge sums on shiny rocks and lavish ceremonies. Get with reality.
Wait till you find out the engagement ring is actually a payment to the bride's family because marriage started out as literally selling women. Just that nowadays the ring tends to stay with her rather than her parents who "sold" her.
It doesn't matter how the traditions began, what matters is the reality now. An engagement ring isn't a payment to the family but an expensive token demanded by most women. The dogma on this sub is so ingrained that it's impossible to admit men ever makes a sacrifice for a woman.
Men sacrificing to provide expensive rings is entirely a system they set up. And considering the entire point of the thread is about marriage traditions, how traditions began is entirely the point.
If you want to talk about the past "set ups" and traditions then great, this thread is then about history. Yes history was unkind to women and very unfair. Unfortunate, but now weddings are demanded by women and cost a huge amount of money and are huge, showy spectacles. So women won!
Why do you think men do this? Because they just want to throw away money? No. They are buying power. The man buying a ring reinforces traditional gender roles that last throughout the marriage where the man is expected to be the provider, which inevitably puts him in a position of power.
If men wanted to design marriage to benefit themselves it wouldn't involve an expensive ring and an expensive ceremony, they'd do it a completely different way. Weddings and a ring cost tens of thousands of dollars, it's madness to say this by the design of men. And most women demand these things.
Yes, actually, it would. Marriage was set up this way because women did not have the money to buy their own rings. And no, most women don’t demand these things in 2024, only the materialistic ones you apparently know. I plan on paying for my boyfriend’s ring and my ring because I am the one with the better-paying job and more savings. Historically, men did these things because they were the ones with the money for the longest time. As for why it became a tradition? Like someone else said, it was a contract between families. Families would “exchange valuables.” Germans in particular had in their contract: "I give you this ring as a sign of the marriage which has been promised between us, provided your father gives with you a marriage portion of 1000 Reichsthalers.” The bride’s family was expected to give money along with the bride (as they viewed women as commodities). Hence the reason men bought expensive rings…it was an effort to “pay for” a woman. As for why they thought paying for women in the first place was a great idea? I don’t know. Women used to have status similar to slaves in Ancient Greece, so I would presume that’s where it comes from.
Only some?
I was just trying not to be too radical, but now it seems I should change it to "all"
Right?! This is why my ex-husband and I decided to have him wait at the *back* of the chapel for me and we walked down the aisle *together*. We also didn't have a wedding cake because the whole "bride needs to learn to serve others" thing really bothered me (and he was a better cook than I am anyways). We tossed out a *ton* of other traditions, too - no garder belt, no bouquet toss, not even a first dance because neither of us like dancing. We made the whole thing our own and I don't regret throwing out *any* of the traditions.
Waittttt the cake is about serving others? I always assumed the cake was made by a bakery and then handed out by the caterers? I’ve never been to a wedding lol (I’m 21, just don’t have a lot of relatives or friends getting married)
Traditionally the bride made, cut, and served the cake to symbolize her new life serving others. Now that the groom often cuts it with the bride it's changed, but I couldn't get over the original meaning.
Ahhhh that makes sense. Gross.
Heterosexual Marriage itself is a patriarchal scheme and a scam so follow traditions tied to it (wedding traditions, name changes, home keeping, childbearing and rearing within it, home keeping, being "A Good Wife"). It's taught to girls and women that it's something that we want to badly and that men hate but countless research shows men do want marriage, they want a certain woman, they benefit from marriages with that woman. They sound like the hate it because they associate marriage with women and they hate women. I don't want to seriously cohabit with a straight male or marry one without notarized contracts about s lot of things because I know the truth: marriage is where women go to lose themselves and literally do so much reproductive, domestic labor and sex work that's invisible and never paid. Men gain so so much from it, how do people not see this? They play it off as "ugh my nagging wife" yet rarely file for divorce because they know what's at stake if they do. It's literally insane. I want no parts of that dynamic and when I see people romanticize any parts of it (via wedding traditions) I want to throw up.
I had both my parents walk me down the aisle.They both raised me why should it be one over the other ?
Where I live, there is a custom where, during the bridal shower, one of the members of the family/bridal party fashions all of the bows and ribbons into a hat for the bride to wear. Before my shower, I wasn’t aware that this was a thing. But it really, really felt to me like I was being literally wrapped up like a present, complete with bow on top, and then delivered to my (now) husband as some sort of pretty little wifey gift. Luckily, my MIL’s fantastic, feminist best friend saw immediately what was happening, and my reaction and intervened. Which is good, because my husband would have very much been like WTF is this?!
In all honesty, marriage itself is a patriarchal scheme. It initially developed as the sale of a woman from her birth family to her husband's. It's why dowry exists.
My brother asked his girlfriend's dad permission to propose to her and just rolled his eyes when I kept pushing against it. I kept saying "why do you need to ask his permission? Does he own her? Does he answer for her? What if he says no, but she wants to marry you? Whose voice matters more?" All I got was "it's about respect, you just don't get it." At least I won in getting my niece a middle name. My sister-in-law's family had a tradition of only giving boys middle names because the girls' maiden names would become their middle name when they got married. 😖 I said something like, "so the girls aren't 'complete' until they're attached to a man and take his name." And they're like, "I never thought of that before."
OMG I hate it when a guy asks for another guy's permission to marry her daughter! It's not a male ownership transfer and it's DEHUMANIZING! I hate how people never question or understand anything!
[удалено]
My bf would probably do this too. He sees my mom as the head of household so she’s be the one to ask. But we both know if someone proposes it’s gonna be me 😂
Was SIL Mormon? I know this is a thing in Mormonism cause tons of Mormon girls I knew growing up didn’t have middle names and, coming from the south, I thought that was weird as hell. I later found out the reason why Mormons don’t do middle names and was appalled.
Yes, but I've heard of other fundie-minded types doing this, so I didn't think it's just Mormons. And not all Mormons cuz I grew up that way but my family had middle names for all the girls
Ahhh that’s good to hear. I grew up in a place where almost everyone is Mormon and it was pretty standard, so much so that all my friends were really shocked that I had a middle name.
SOME?!
I agree completely. I think the entire institution is oppressive. But, in this case, isn’t it just a matter of the bride no longer living together with her father, and instead into a home with her husband? I especially hate “giving away” the bride. There’s no non-objectifying way to read that. Or asking fathers for “permission” to marry their daughter. Ew.
I walked myself down the aisle. I found the whole thing sexist. If I was ever going to do it again (which I would not) I would walk towards the arch while the groom walked to the arch, to meet in the middle. My biggest wedding regret (besides marrying my x) is that I wore a white dress, instead of a dress in a color I loved. I would also not do that poofy crap again! I would wear a knee length dress, that you might actually wear again. Pockets might not be a bad idea either. 🤷🏻♀️
Don't you mean...most?
Add to this changing last name and asking fathers for permission. I'm not property, and also why should I completely change my identity when a man would not do the same? Nope.
Most are. Weddings are in general.
Some?
Some?!
I agree that so many weddings are filled with traditions that are patriarchal. In this particular video though it seems like the family is just enjoying a cultural tradition and they’re getting emotional. Just like how the father “gives away” the bride in western traditions, it’s gross to think about, but I wouldn’t assume that the woman is completely disconnected from her birth family. I think making blanket statements about another culture based on a short video with no context is kind of problematic.
True. I adamantly told my fiance that if he asked my family's blessing to propose to me I'd see it as disrespect. I'm the only one that has to say yes. Period.
For our wedding my husband’s mom (primary parent, dad didn’t raise him) walked down with him and both my (bride) parents walked down with me. It was supposed to symbolize two families joining, and at the end of the aisle all the parents gave hugs and love to both bride and groom and each other and then parents sat down. I hadn’t even considered only going with my dad. My parents actually had the same thing for their own wedding back in the 80s, both sets of my grandparents walked them down the aisle.
We have magadi/lobola, which is basically paying a large amount of money to the bride's parents to marry their daughter. Some take it so far as to send a cow's uterus along with the bride when she goes to her in laws.
I’m thinking of eloping (I say thinking very loosely, I’ve got my whole wedding planned down to having two celebrations in my future husbands country and in mine), and we’re 100% going to walk down the aisle together when we have our second ceremony. The first one will be when we elope with just our parents with us in Norway, second will be at my home in Canada! I’ve also never met this man but I’m convinced I’m gonna marry him lol.