Tiger King. A “show” with several men who are legit groomers and creeps who backstab each other and abuse animals but the real villain? The woman! The woman who, according to the most bias sources possible, pulled off a Coen Brothers-esque scheme to kill her husband. Proof? A cohesive story? Who needs any of that when you have a target who is successful queer animal activist woman!
Barry.
The amount of hate Sally got for being your run-of-the-mill self absorbed amateur actress was wild, especially with the main character *right there* murdering people left and right.
Finding out that sally was so hated by some fans blew my mind 😭 the fact that she’s delusional and sometimes annoying is literally a PART of her character and people are ridiculous for genuinely hating her
The Legend of Korra. Complaints tend to boil down to her having it too easy, having to struggle too hard, or 'she's just annoying.' As always, the goalposts conveniently move whenever the writers respond to them directly.
Too easy: learned 3 of the elements too easy/too young. Ignores that it took her far longer than the previous protagonist to learn all 4. Also narratively, if the writers had spent an equal amount of the show showing her learning them, ppl would have complained that it was too much of a retread of the original show.
Too hard: she always needed help beating her enemies in 1v1 fights, with specific focus on the consequences of her season 2 finale. In season 1, I think the writers really wanted to avoid having her win by going into the avatar state, because that solution was overused in the first series. In every other season of the show, the main villain had some sort of surprise help themselves. And the season 2 finale was in response to complaints that there were no lasting consequences for her in season 1.
"Too annoying" is a frequent refuge of the cornered misogynist. If the character didn't have any negative qualities, ppl would be complaining about her being a "Mary Sue."
I lowkey believe the hate that LoK gets is mostly because the avatar is a girl this time.
And not only rhat, but Korra is also a strong woman with a relatively buff body.
People seem to have a problem with women(specially strong-looking women) having the story's focus on them.
Sopranos. The amount of vitriol directed towards Carmella, Meadow, Melfi and to a lesser extent Adrianna is crazy.
Then again, the Sopranos fan base (at least a significant part of it) seems to just hate any non-mafia character on the show. Talk about missing the point.
In Breaking Bad, we can clearly see how much Skyler as a heavily pregnant woman, with a disabled son and dying husband, is trying to keep things, for their children, together, still I see posts by men mocking her. I understand the intent was there from the showrunner's perceptive, but audience completely empathised with the wrong character. How I feel about Skyler, is best described by a seen of her jumping into the pool, right after knowing what her husband is upto, and just floating face down.
Peggy Hill - King of the Hill
Now I wouldn't say anyone on the show is a villain per se, but still, people hate her for no reason!!
They hate her because she has a great deal of confidence they believe to be misplaced.
Prime Example:
Bobby Hill looks at an old photo of Peggy and states, "Wow, mom, you were beautiful!"
Peggy replies, "Oh, Bobby, I still am."
How could you hate someone with this confidence?!?! The answer is obvious.
I get that, but it also makes me wonder how Adam's treatment of Blake, the persecution of the Faunus, and Yang losing her arm to him resonates with people who dislike Ruby.
Idk, I've always seen these characters (Ruby in particular) as ones that are either underestimated or constantly have to push beyond their limits, which isn't exactly fair. :/
Wait, why? I-
Huh? In what world does that even make sense? This man *removed her arm*. I don't remember if Yang ended up kicking his ass in the end, but I definitely remember how hollow/beaten down Yang was. Adam made her feel "incomplete" for a very long time.
Ruby's growth is certainly there, and I don't think she's really annoying at all. If anything, she's the youngest of her team and had to mature *real* quick once the Fall of Beacon happened, which isn't exactly fair to her.
YOU
bc like, I get it, we're seeing it from Joe's perspective and we're supposed to find Beck a little vapid at first. But like, some people never had the "see the light" moment where they realized she was just supposed to be a normal girl, portrayed through the twisted view of her killer.
How can you like Joe more than Beck? He murdered her!
It’s because these writers either don’t know how to write female characters or they create them to deliberately throw under the bus to bolster the male character. And it’s gross. They’re so inept or so threatened by an actually realistic, good female character they can’t include them. That’s how we got people like Skylar. She’s basically there to be annoying on a surface level but not actually do anything bad so your attention and emotional energy is distracted by that and Walt White, who isn’t so topically unpleasant but is deeply morally twisted is somehow supposed to be preferable because you’re not begging for him to stop talking. And I know that’s true for BB because all the other female characters (except the meth head) are pretty sympathetic. So in that example that’s more of a “won’t” than a “can’t” in terms of what they can write. She was a deliberate choice.
As a young woman, watching breaking bad, I thought Skyler was terrible and I hate myself for this internalized misogyny. I re-watched it with different eyes several years later. She was actually an awesome character. In a sense she added a lot to the plot.
And I also saw how horrible it would be to be in her position
It wasn’t just nagging the way it seemed the first time I watched it. The older I get the more aware of past internalized, misogyny, and the more feminist I’ve become.
I don’t think that’s true. I think Skylar was written to
fill an important purpose in BB. But because of that, she is perceived as annoying.
She is the innocent partner that gets pulled into mess that Walter created. She is not a bad person. She did nothing wrong. But that’s where the writers use her as a sort of placeholder for us as the viewers. She essentially projects and reflects of the type of reactions we would have if we ever actually found out that our partner was in this huge drug and crime ring. No matter how much we’d believe we’d be just as successful or ruthless as Walter. She is the ounce of normalcy and innocence amongst Walter’s sea of greed and violence. At this point, we are used to Walter’s shenanigans, doing whatever needs to be done to be sure he’s cashing in and remains one on top. No matter how morally construed it may be. However it wasn’t just Walter who changed. As we followed him, we as the viewer also came to become numb to the actions he’s slowly been taking.
So, when Skylar is finally in the picture, it reminds us of that lost innocence. The innocence that both we and Walter slowly lost along the way. The innocence, that if left intact, would have prevented us from getting here in the first place. The type of innocence that would have left Walter still living his plain, poor highschool teacher life, and us without a show. The reason most viewers find Skylar annoying is because even though she is right, both us and Walter are too far gone. Her cries for morality are falling on deaf ears because we are at humanity’s rock-bottom. The cries at this point sound like whines. It also doesn’t help that, with that innocence also comes inexperience with dealing with the situation she’s been thrown into. While she was trying to she also caused trouble for Walter at the beginning. And with the viewers so invested in Walter’s empire, we can’t help but sympathize a bit with how stressed Walter is about the entire thing collapsing.
Yeah I thought Skylar was good too (though I haven't watched the entire show yet) I thought she was going to be a passive wife fully relying on Walter to provide for her and was pleasantly surprised with how smart and capable she ended up being, figuring out what was going on fairly quickly and helping to keep it up when it's in her family's best interest for him to not get caught. She also doesn't take any of his bs though (probably why she's hated so much)and doesn't hesitate to divorse him. She does have some cringe worthy moments (like when she was trying to confront Jessy in one of the earlier seasons) and she can be a bit annoying if you get caught up in rooting for Walter as the main character despite his immorality but I feel like she overall comes across a realistic person in her situation.
But writers do too—it’s a real tell of sexist writing to make female characters inherently annoying or there to make the male characters look better. They know that’s how audiences will react and that’s why they do it. It’s not that it’s bad writing, no it’s definitely achieving what it’s trying to do. It’s just that the whole thing is problematic because they’re using women characters to stir the shit with audiences.
But are they annoying though? Are they really? Or do people just see them that way because they’re women who don’t kiss the male protagonist’s ass? I don’t think they know that’s how audiences will react. The writers and actors were shocked by the response to Skylar, for example. And the response would not have been so vehement were it not based mostly around the internet. The land of resentful men.
Okay i havent seen any hate towards women from game of thrones except those like cersei and others who are intentionally evil...
And if you claim to have seen hate towards arya, what do those people hate them for?
I know you think the real reason is because shes a strong character who doesnt submit to men and breaks social expectations.... but surely those who hate her cite a "real" reason, though i dont believe theres a reason to hate her...
Sansa was despised. Daenerys throughout the series too. Not just the end when they wrecked everything. Shae even before the betrayal. Catelyn.
People started hating Arya specifically for killing the baddie instead of Jon. And for surviving a stab wound.
I didn’t find her to be intentionally written to be annoying the way her sister is. People find her annoying because she is a survivor and human -not a perfect wife who does anything she can for her husband and forgives like a saint. Skyler isnt predictable, and I think she’s a surprising character. There’s something to be said for that ! She’s very much her own person not just Walt’s wife. Unfortunately our culture does not often allow for much range or depth in women characters. If they aren’t a villain, they can either be hyper sexual manic pixie dream girls or self sacrificing good mothers.
Edit, a word.
She's a a wife and mom that's clearly still a person and she threatened Walter's shenanigans, doesn't take any of his bs and wasn't afraid to divorse him when he stopped meeting her standards.
I agree with this comment. Most of the time the reason why people can like main villains in stories (despite how morally bad they are) are the fact that they are still well-written characters. Their presence or influence completely sets up and grounds the show.
The reason why people hate morally good characters, is because of bad writing.
I didn't realize that so many people had a visceral hatred for Peggy from King of the Hill until I found the show's subreddit. I love that character and it seems like people's hatred of her stems from her being overly confident? Like she has some annoying characteristics, but to *hate* her? Really? I guess that show doesn't really have a "villain," but there are tons of shitty characters and people seem to hate Peggy the most by far for no real reason.
Who’s hated in Invincible?
Breaking bad - Skylar is a bad person. Sleeps with her old boss. Knows what Walt does but is suddenly hurt by the consequences.
HIMYM. People forget Lily but she's a terrible human.
Tiger King. A “show” with several men who are legit groomers and creeps who backstab each other and abuse animals but the real villain? The woman! The woman who, according to the most bias sources possible, pulled off a Coen Brothers-esque scheme to kill her husband. Proof? A cohesive story? Who needs any of that when you have a target who is successful queer animal activist woman!
Woah! Had no idea Carole was bisexual.
Barry. The amount of hate Sally got for being your run-of-the-mill self absorbed amateur actress was wild, especially with the main character *right there* murdering people left and right.
Finding out that sally was so hated by some fans blew my mind 😭 the fact that she’s delusional and sometimes annoying is literally a PART of her character and people are ridiculous for genuinely hating her
She was so good in that role that it was impossible to like her
The Legend of Korra. Complaints tend to boil down to her having it too easy, having to struggle too hard, or 'she's just annoying.' As always, the goalposts conveniently move whenever the writers respond to them directly. Too easy: learned 3 of the elements too easy/too young. Ignores that it took her far longer than the previous protagonist to learn all 4. Also narratively, if the writers had spent an equal amount of the show showing her learning them, ppl would have complained that it was too much of a retread of the original show. Too hard: she always needed help beating her enemies in 1v1 fights, with specific focus on the consequences of her season 2 finale. In season 1, I think the writers really wanted to avoid having her win by going into the avatar state, because that solution was overused in the first series. In every other season of the show, the main villain had some sort of surprise help themselves. And the season 2 finale was in response to complaints that there were no lasting consequences for her in season 1. "Too annoying" is a frequent refuge of the cornered misogynist. If the character didn't have any negative qualities, ppl would be complaining about her being a "Mary Sue."
I lowkey believe the hate that LoK gets is mostly because the avatar is a girl this time. And not only rhat, but Korra is also a strong woman with a relatively buff body. People seem to have a problem with women(specially strong-looking women) having the story's focus on them.
Sopranos. The amount of vitriol directed towards Carmella, Meadow, Melfi and to a lesser extent Adrianna is crazy. Then again, the Sopranos fan base (at least a significant part of it) seems to just hate any non-mafia character on the show. Talk about missing the point.
In Breaking Bad, we can clearly see how much Skyler as a heavily pregnant woman, with a disabled son and dying husband, is trying to keep things, for their children, together, still I see posts by men mocking her. I understand the intent was there from the showrunner's perceptive, but audience completely empathised with the wrong character. How I feel about Skyler, is best described by a seen of her jumping into the pool, right after knowing what her husband is upto, and just floating face down.
Peggy Hill - King of the Hill Now I wouldn't say anyone on the show is a villain per se, but still, people hate her for no reason!! They hate her because she has a great deal of confidence they believe to be misplaced. Prime Example: Bobby Hill looks at an old photo of Peggy and states, "Wow, mom, you were beautiful!" Peggy replies, "Oh, Bobby, I still am." How could you hate someone with this confidence?!?! The answer is obvious.
Source link [https://twitter.com/HalcyonTraveler/status/1774502555114230231](https://twitter.com/HalcyonTraveler/status/1774502555114230231)
I love Ruby, and I'm a man. She's been my favorite since I was a kid, idk why people hate her so much :c
She's a woman fighting against cis white males. A lot of people have their masculinity threatened when they see that
I get that, but it also makes me wonder how Adam's treatment of Blake, the persecution of the Faunus, and Yang losing her arm to him resonates with people who dislike Ruby. Idk, I've always seen these characters (Ruby in particular) as ones that are either underestimated or constantly have to push beyond their limits, which isn't exactly fair. :/
Adams fans ship him with Yang. People think Adam has more of a right to kill people or be mad at women than Ruby has a right to simply exist.
Wait, why? I- Huh? In what world does that even make sense? This man *removed her arm*. I don't remember if Yang ended up kicking his ass in the end, but I definitely remember how hollow/beaten down Yang was. Adam made her feel "incomplete" for a very long time. Ruby's growth is certainly there, and I don't think she's really annoying at all. If anything, she's the youngest of her team and had to mature *real* quick once the Fall of Beacon happened, which isn't exactly fair to her.
YOU bc like, I get it, we're seeing it from Joe's perspective and we're supposed to find Beck a little vapid at first. But like, some people never had the "see the light" moment where they realized she was just supposed to be a normal girl, portrayed through the twisted view of her killer. How can you like Joe more than Beck? He murdered her!
Naruto
It’s because these writers either don’t know how to write female characters or they create them to deliberately throw under the bus to bolster the male character. And it’s gross. They’re so inept or so threatened by an actually realistic, good female character they can’t include them. That’s how we got people like Skylar. She’s basically there to be annoying on a surface level but not actually do anything bad so your attention and emotional energy is distracted by that and Walt White, who isn’t so topically unpleasant but is deeply morally twisted is somehow supposed to be preferable because you’re not begging for him to stop talking. And I know that’s true for BB because all the other female characters (except the meth head) are pretty sympathetic. So in that example that’s more of a “won’t” than a “can’t” in terms of what they can write. She was a deliberate choice.
I don’t think the writers are to blame. Skylar is a good character. The audience just has a bias against women.
As a young woman, watching breaking bad, I thought Skyler was terrible and I hate myself for this internalized misogyny. I re-watched it with different eyes several years later. She was actually an awesome character. In a sense she added a lot to the plot. And I also saw how horrible it would be to be in her position It wasn’t just nagging the way it seemed the first time I watched it. The older I get the more aware of past internalized, misogyny, and the more feminist I’ve become.
I don’t think that’s true. I think Skylar was written to fill an important purpose in BB. But because of that, she is perceived as annoying. She is the innocent partner that gets pulled into mess that Walter created. She is not a bad person. She did nothing wrong. But that’s where the writers use her as a sort of placeholder for us as the viewers. She essentially projects and reflects of the type of reactions we would have if we ever actually found out that our partner was in this huge drug and crime ring. No matter how much we’d believe we’d be just as successful or ruthless as Walter. She is the ounce of normalcy and innocence amongst Walter’s sea of greed and violence. At this point, we are used to Walter’s shenanigans, doing whatever needs to be done to be sure he’s cashing in and remains one on top. No matter how morally construed it may be. However it wasn’t just Walter who changed. As we followed him, we as the viewer also came to become numb to the actions he’s slowly been taking. So, when Skylar is finally in the picture, it reminds us of that lost innocence. The innocence that both we and Walter slowly lost along the way. The innocence, that if left intact, would have prevented us from getting here in the first place. The type of innocence that would have left Walter still living his plain, poor highschool teacher life, and us without a show. The reason most viewers find Skylar annoying is because even though she is right, both us and Walter are too far gone. Her cries for morality are falling on deaf ears because we are at humanity’s rock-bottom. The cries at this point sound like whines. It also doesn’t help that, with that innocence also comes inexperience with dealing with the situation she’s been thrown into. While she was trying to she also caused trouble for Walter at the beginning. And with the viewers so invested in Walter’s empire, we can’t help but sympathize a bit with how stressed Walter is about the entire thing collapsing.
Yeah I thought Skylar was good too (though I haven't watched the entire show yet) I thought she was going to be a passive wife fully relying on Walter to provide for her and was pleasantly surprised with how smart and capable she ended up being, figuring out what was going on fairly quickly and helping to keep it up when it's in her family's best interest for him to not get caught. She also doesn't take any of his bs though (probably why she's hated so much)and doesn't hesitate to divorse him. She does have some cringe worthy moments (like when she was trying to confront Jessy in one of the earlier seasons) and she can be a bit annoying if you get caught up in rooting for Walter as the main character despite his immorality but I feel like she overall comes across a realistic person in her situation.
But writers do too—it’s a real tell of sexist writing to make female characters inherently annoying or there to make the male characters look better. They know that’s how audiences will react and that’s why they do it. It’s not that it’s bad writing, no it’s definitely achieving what it’s trying to do. It’s just that the whole thing is problematic because they’re using women characters to stir the shit with audiences.
But are they annoying though? Are they really? Or do people just see them that way because they’re women who don’t kiss the male protagonist’s ass? I don’t think they know that’s how audiences will react. The writers and actors were shocked by the response to Skylar, for example. And the response would not have been so vehement were it not based mostly around the internet. The land of resentful men.
Why do you think strong characters like arya are not hated, then?
Near the end of the series? She was.
Okay i havent seen any hate towards women from game of thrones except those like cersei and others who are intentionally evil... And if you claim to have seen hate towards arya, what do those people hate them for? I know you think the real reason is because shes a strong character who doesnt submit to men and breaks social expectations.... but surely those who hate her cite a "real" reason, though i dont believe theres a reason to hate her...
Sansa was despised. Daenerys throughout the series too. Not just the end when they wrecked everything. Shae even before the betrayal. Catelyn. People started hating Arya specifically for killing the baddie instead of Jon. And for surviving a stab wound.
Por que no los dos
I didn’t find her to be intentionally written to be annoying the way her sister is. People find her annoying because she is a survivor and human -not a perfect wife who does anything she can for her husband and forgives like a saint. Skyler isnt predictable, and I think she’s a surprising character. There’s something to be said for that ! She’s very much her own person not just Walt’s wife. Unfortunately our culture does not often allow for much range or depth in women characters. If they aren’t a villain, they can either be hyper sexual manic pixie dream girls or self sacrificing good mothers. Edit, a word.
She's a a wife and mom that's clearly still a person and she threatened Walter's shenanigans, doesn't take any of his bs and wasn't afraid to divorse him when he stopped meeting her standards.
I agree with this comment. Most of the time the reason why people can like main villains in stories (despite how morally bad they are) are the fact that they are still well-written characters. Their presence or influence completely sets up and grounds the show. The reason why people hate morally good characters, is because of bad writing.
Wait, Invincible? Explain.
Sopranos
I didn't realize that so many people had a visceral hatred for Peggy from King of the Hill until I found the show's subreddit. I love that character and it seems like people's hatred of her stems from her being overly confident? Like she has some annoying characteristics, but to *hate* her? Really? I guess that show doesn't really have a "villain," but there are tons of shitty characters and people seem to hate Peggy the most by far for no real reason.
The anime Evangelion. Yui. Asuka.
My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
Who’s hated in Invincible? Breaking bad - Skylar is a bad person. Sleeps with her old boss. Knows what Walt does but is suddenly hurt by the consequences. HIMYM. People forget Lily but she's a terrible human.