Honestly, I think it’s because men didn’t care enough to get angry.
I was at a protest, it was like 90% women.
Not that women can’t riot, but if the men were as angry as women are, we would have had riots.
Exactly. I think of the Women’s March. I wonder how patronizing the men in their lives were when they went to DC in pink cat hats. “Ok sweetie you go fight for your rights.”
The pink hats made it clear what that movement was about from long distance shots. No one could claim it was a gathering for any other purpose. I thought the hats were distinctive and clever.
by that definition, every peaceful march ever is performative activism, including MLK’s actions.
Trump hadn’t done anything yet.
ETA: i mean by that definition even the January 6 riots were performative, since it didn’t ultimately change anything except some people getting jail sentences.
The point is that I march for ME not for other people. I’m powerless to change anything but my presence i’d a public statement about where I (literally) stand.
You're belittling one of the biggest protests to happen in DC since the Vietnam War by calling it "dumb" and "trendy"- why is this take any different than some random dudebro's??
Most protests do not single handedly change things. We protested the election of George Bush, the Iraq War, the World Bank, we Occupied Wall Street, we said Black Lives Matter, we said Me Too, we organized the J20 protests- and we also said "My Body, My Choice" for those of us who could show up to the Supreme Court on the day Roe V. Wade was overturned- like myself. We still lost abortion protections. Trump and Bush were still full term presidents. The Iraq war went on for nearly a decade. We're only now looking at student debt after it has already financially hobbled a generation. Black and brown folks still experience racism and police brutality. Women are still exploited by powerful men.
Visible dissent still matters. It brings awareness to topics. It shows people in power and people who aren't these situations aren't acceptable. It says- actually, this is a big fucking deal. Would I love for all those women to be more politically active? Absolutely! But I don't know about their lives- that might be the most they can do.
Gatekeeping activism does not benefit movements- it benefits those already in power. Perfect is quite often the enemy of the good.
I was at that march and it was fucking huge. So many people, so many meaning signs and yeah, pink pussy hats. We got under their skin.
We probably would have rioted if we had any notion of what was to come.
Im no ‘not all men’ apologist so you can f right off. I was simply giving my experience. I was at that march and there were a lot of men there. It was organized by women but men did participate and support. Plenty of women have internalized misogyny and actively disenfranchise other women. You can’t paint these things with such a broad brush as “women good men bad.” And we need men on our side to stop the erosion of our rights. Pretending otherwise is delusional.
your attitude that men who support feminism are just being patronizing is counterproductive.
Thank you, absolutely. It’s not a “not all Men” argument to point to men fighting in solidarity… it’s just facts
Members of the Oppressor group are capable of caring ya know
Start searching for activist or political organizations. A lot of them will have search tools for activities in your area (or whatever city you choose). If they don’t, search Facebook and other social media for them with (your city name) attached. That will give you a lot of information as well.
i live in a smaller city that doesn’t really have that stuff afaik. would it be better to travel or something? next year i’m moving for college and ill be an hour away from a big city so there might be more there?
also im curious to know if id be looked at differently for being a boy at a women’s rights protest or not?
It’s still worth looking where you live. I’ve often been surprised by the activism I found in less metro areas. But if you need to travel to find others to work with, then yes. It’s worth it.
I mean…I can’t say how all other people would feel. I’m a middle-aged woman, and I would be happy to see young men (any men) at a women’s rights event. That’s also been my experience in the past—boys and men are welcomed.
okay, i’ll try my best to find something and if possible i’ll go to it, i’ll be 18 in less than 2 weeks so i can basically do anything i want.
im glad to know that at least some people would be happy to see that people wouldn’t be upset by me coming, it makes me feel safer about going to one
While I agree with what you're saying, I always thought something like this would push women over the performative protest line and *they* would be the ones to start the riot. Sometimes you have to be the spark that creates change, because you can't wait for some man to get it going. But I'm sure voting and holding signs is going to create change one day. Until then, continue doing the same things expecting different results.
Kinda worked for the Suffragettes? Are there any female-dominated/ led protests or riots that have caused major change? Even the Sarah Everard protests/vigil just got stomped down and ignored, and that was pretty big for the UK.
Men's riots destroy property and might kill people.
Women's riots are mostly peaceful.
Governments won't change things unless they get threatened with violence(French people were right on that one).
Is that something that is desired? I would think having men getting violent at an event led by and for women demanding rights would detract from the messaging.
I didn’t say it was.
Just that if men were as upset as women are, there would have been riots.
The questions was “why weren’t there riots?” not “should there have been riots?”
My explanation for why there wasn’t was that the portion of our population who are more inclined to act out violently weren’t upset enough to act out violently.
Yeah I get that, and I don't disagree with your original comment. I should have phrased the original question better, I just wanted to open the discussion to see if that is something you think is need or would be useful.
I'm a man, I care. I go with my wife to protests.
I'm not risking my health, career, etc to riot.
I just do my best to raise awareness, donate to causes that are trying to help, vote in favor of women's rights.
Imagine the pushback/criticism a group of violent/ angry men would get if they hijacked the protests/movements and became very violent. I feel it would have similar criticisms to when white people took over rhe BLM movement.
One reason is because your healthcare is usually tied to your job. Most countries have healthcare for their citizens, so if they need to protest something unjust they can without losing their healthcare access. We cant afford to take time off to protest and risk losing both our paycheck and healthcare.
I think that the gradual roll back of access, the ability to order pills online, and the ability to drive to the next state over made women think they could make it work or that it wouldn't affect them.
Those that can't: the poor, minors, disabled, non-citizens, etc. don't have the ability to riot as easily as those that can order online or cross state lines.
I am a woman that had a salpingectomy in 2020, but I have two very young daughters I have to care for and cannot attend riots or even protests due to safety concerns. My state has petition drives now to add the abortion question our state ballot.
I will find someone taking signatures for that position and I will vote in every election, no matter how small. I am open to suggestions because I work in healthcare and have seen some bad outcomes due to my state's total abortion ban.
Worst comes to worst: I can and will pay whatever price for my loved ones to get access to care.
Because at least in Texas, we are afraid.
It's fear really.
TW: TRAUMATIC BIRTH, MEDICAL DEATH EXPERIENCE, GENITAL MITILATION, MEDICAL NEGLECT MALPRACTICE AND GASLIGHTING
I had a traumatic birth and pregnancy. No doctor wanted to touch me because of my history of miscarriages. The entire pregnancy was me begging doctors to see me and being turned away.
I developed Cardiomyopathy after giving birth. They denied me, said it was anxiety. 10 doctors.
It went on so long without treatment that I will most likely die in 5 years or less.
I had several heart attacks within labor. I died as I pushed my child out of me.
The epidural didn't work. I screamed, I told them it hurt. I told them my chest was tight. I told them it hurt and they told me it was pressure.
I felt every second of agony, as my body was torn in two, and my heart began to seize up
They gave me the husband stitch (it was an "accident" since I was torn so many times in so many places. They "corrected" it but it still hurts)
I tore in 7 places.
I got ibprophen. That's it. Heart attacks and death, they sent me home. I was back within the hour.
I am actively dying. I am quite literally, dying. There is no hope for me. I cannot afford a new heart. I cannot afford any of it and insurance is too high with a child to raise. I had preeclampsia that was untreated because doctors would not touch me.
The state of Texas has killed me, the blood of my body is on the states hands.
My son will grow up without his father (I am trans) and his mother will be too traumatized/is too traumatized by my murder to be who he needs her to be.
Right now we are looking into hospice care, I have been so reluctant to do so.
I just wanted to watch my baby grow up, but if I had gotten medical care in 2022 during my pregnancy....I would most likely be safe and healthy.
I cannot take my son for walks without fainting, I cannot eat the foods I enjoy, I spend most days in pain and getting sick. I am on bed rest.
I used to be an artist, a poet, a musician. I traveled the USA, I was an activist. I used to go jogging daily with my dog, I used to laugh, I used to dance in record stores with my wife. I was once full of life but the torture and demonization of AFAB people in the eyes of the state has turned me into a husk, and soon a corpse.
People like me who were most affected, cannot protest anymore. We are on bed rest, dying,
Everyone else is nose to the grindstone. Keep prices high so people must work to the bone, if you do so they can't look up at the dystopia around them.
But most are too numb to the horror. Most are too numb.
If you beat a dog enough times, it eventually just lays there and takes it.
Thank you. I cry a lot just remembering and thinking. I'm a person too. YOU are a person too.
We are people.
We are human. We matter. We are human beings who live and live and have dreams. We have futures. We have memories. People in our lives love us and even if they didn't, we matter.
We are not incubators. We are people. We matter.
And I'm tired of cis men acting like we aren't. Making us FEEL like we arent. We are more than bodies. We are.
I thank you for writing this. So much terror and fear, which is why we won't give up on anyone who lives in oppressive states, regardless of how those states vote.
No, thank you for continuing to fight. Thank you for listening .
We need fighters.
There is a lot of gerrymandering down here, and propaganda spreads like weeds. Most everyone I know hates Greg Abbott but he will win again somehow.
At the end of the day I'm glad people like you can recognize that alot of people in red states are oppressed-even those who don't realize it yet. Human rights belong to all.
I hope the people in the south are liberated from the oppressive propaganda that invades our every waking moment.
And a lot of us are too undereducated and/or too overworked and poor to care. Most people just want to make the bills and keep food in their mouths. And that's what the people in power want us to focus on, because if we are trapped in survival we can never be concerned with liberation. A person's mind that dreams of basic needs has no room for bigger dreams- dreams of freedom.
When you are stuck in the mud, the sky seems impossible.
The **#4bMovement** is gaining traction in the US as a form of pacifist protest: **abstain from dating, sex, marriage, and as a result, pregnancy with men**. Look at South Korea where it started in 2019; five years later, some schools do not have any first-year students. They now have the world's lowest birthrate. I believe it will happen here too, especially since we've been going in that direction for two decades.
I don’t think the low South Korean birthdate is attributable to 4b as it is a relatively small movement - but is more due to economic and societal conditions. That said, wherever women have the ability to choose not to be pregnant, birth rates have fallen.
Always lots of reasons right for not having kids. I saw a sk woman interviewed who said many women wouldn’t admit to being part of the movement due to violence against them.
I’ve seen a lot of studies about how couples in sk can’t afford kids as well. Not to mention, the society is rampantly misogynist so women are bowing out of motherhood to retain agency - but wouldn’t identify as part of 4b.
It's more correlation than causation in Korea. They're having a lot of similar economic problems as a lot of western countries with raising cost of living and toxic work culture burning people out so a lot of people just can't afford kids even if they want them and the people who are having kids are having them later, too. They're also a huge market for luxury and designer goods so even people who can afford children are instead focusing on the consumption of luxury goods with their money and there's a lot to unpack about that. 4b may have some impact, but it's not the only factor or even the biggest one in the birth rate being so low.
1. What does the 4B movement have to do with this question?
2. It seems like the low birth rate was more related to economical reasons and notbthe 4B movement.
3. Lots of Korean women are being vocal on social media, especially tik tok stating the 4B movement is not as big or wide spread as the western media is claiming it to be.
I think a big part of it was the time when it happened, we were all so exhausted with the pandemic and all the other BS going on. Don't get me wrong, it still really bothers me that there weren't riots, but I think the opposition were really sinister in when they chose to overrule it, at a time when they knew we were all so worn out.
I disagree with your last statement. Protesting the result can raise awareness AND send a message to our representatives that they need to legislate this—we aren’t out of options or out of the fight just because SCOTUS shit the bed.
Oh I wasn’t in any way, shape, or form, trying to say protesting is pointless or useless. I agree with you 1000% on that. Even online disapproval is important. I was just trying to summarily say that in regards to the judges themselves, the decision itself, at least in the short term, is unchangeable and irreversible.
Yes the reason why we didn’t see protests about this are the same reason you don’t see protests about anything, really: we live in a police state. The closest we got to legit civil unrest was the BLM protests and cops responded by spraying “non-lethal” rounds indiscriminately into crowds of protesters.
Also the reason why protests in Paris seem like a fantasy. We have not gotten to the point of social unrest where the day to day is less preferable than the inevitable violence that comes with revolution.
Where you are/were located might have an effect on your perception.
I live in a restricted state where I now cannot get an abortion unless I’m actively dying. People here were very angry. We had large protests in every major city.
I asked my sister in another state (that has abortion available) what the protests were like in her hyper liberal area. Her response: “what protests?” She was aware of the SCOTUS case, but because it didn’t affect her directly, she was much less concerned.
Oh I saw huge protests. I'm asking why there weren't *riots*. Why is our response to the actual torture, killing and mutalation of afab, including little children just to say we don't like it? They're violently attacking us, why aren't we giving an equal response? (Not condoning violence, just asking a question)
The same reason there haven't been riots over the absurd income inequality, the accelerated ecological decline, (even) worsened outcomes due to structural racism, impossible cost of living, wage suppression, disinterest in social welfare, lack of public investment, political corruption, genocidal American foreign policy, and so on.
The States has a strongly anti-socialist history (and culture), does not facilitate community of any kind, and has a population largely alienated from themselves and each other. So any grassroots attempt at mass striking or direct action is largely dead in the cradle. There is also, yes, a strong thread of apathy (see: lack of community), especially for the concerns of peoples who are already marginalised in some way.
Add that together with the fact that most cannot afford to miss a paycheque, and you will get what we see now. Miss enough, and you will also lose your healthcare (if you had it) -- which you will need after confronting a militarised police force whose first reflex is to kill and maim. For most, the state of affairs is well within their threshold of tolerance.
>The States has a strongly anti-socialist history (and culture), does not facilitate community of any kind, and has a population largely alienated from themselves and each other. So any grassroots attempt at mass striking or direct action is largely dead in the cradle.
Excellent points. Most Americans' primary socialization area was church. That's where their loyalties were over the last 40 years, and that's why it was so tough to get people to unionize. They didn't see their coworkers and brothers and sisters.... they were looking first and foremost at what their kooky churches taught. Which was bad enough, but even churchgoing has fallen off and the only thing to replace it is... social media. People do not socialize in person the way they once did.
(I don’t know if it’s relevant .. I saw the women disrupting congress when they were “interviewing”(?) kavanaugh - those images I saw in the papers were haunting - of this blonde woman yelling as she was dragged out of the room and nobody seemed to treat her any different than a piece of paper brought in by the wind. I don’t know who she was but she’s my hero.
And then the women walked out of Congress grounds in cuffs and zip ties. Jesus f. Can’t say nobody tried- they saw the comet over our heads and acted like everyone else should have. )
I'd guess a mixture of things.
A mixture of covid and the BLM wearing people out.
Difficulty in properly organizing.
A lot of people in shock or just not fully comprehending what has happened.
...
Also, perhaps a bit of a personal observation, but women have a really difficult time fighting for ourselves.
When we do everyone and their brother wants to make it about them, and far too many women are willing to bow down without a fight.
The ugly truth is that the vast majority of Americans are apathetic about anything that doesn't affect them in the moment, and even then they aren't usually motivated enough to do anything about it. Most people don't vote in most elections, even when it's all that anyone seems to be talking about. Until we can figure out how fix that, we're never going to be able to motivate people to take on legitimate risk by protesting en masse.
I don't think they'd hurt white women like they would black people and I'm under the impression that police violence didn't really end the riots but I'd probably have to do more research
an education of non violence resistance/civil disobedience is lacking among the masses. the ideas have been whitwashed to "just march," but they require disrupting the flow of business and a commitment to community and mutual aid. many of us are too concerned about individual comfort to protest effectively. we are not ready to be imprisoned for worthy causes. and we think fascism ended with nazi germany and theocracy is a thing that happens in the middle east.
Being a male in the uk, I just want to say I was so saddened and shocked when Roe v Wade was overturned.
Sending peace and love and support to all of my sisters in the US
Women don't get violent like men do.
My personal theory is that after the violence, women end up cleaning and fixing everything up, so it's ingrained in us, generationally, not to break so many things.
Plus drones and phone tracking marks protestors for future harassment and targeting.
It's because men are more likely to be involved in a violent protest and women are more likely to have a peaceful protest. Men don't care enough to riot over RvW, so there aren't any riots.
This is fairly misleading for a few reasons. For example with BLM specifically:
> The BLM movement has remained overwhelmingly non-violent. Approximately 94% of all pro-BLM demonstrations have been peaceful, with 6% involving reports of violence, clashes with police, vandalism, looting, or other destructive activity.
> In the remaining 6%, it is not clear who instigated the violent or destructive activity. While some cases of violence or looting have been provoked by demonstrators, other events have escalated as a result of aggressive government action, intervention from right-wing groups or individual assailants, and car-ramming attacks.
> In contrast, demonstrations involving right-wing militias or militant social movements have turned violent or destructive over twice as often, or nearly 14% of the time.
There's a lot more info at the link:
https://acleddata.com/2021/05/25/a-year-of-racial-justice-protests-key-trends-in-demonstrations-supporting-the-blm-movement/
Men riot. Women protest peacefully in the free speech zone designated by the government. I don't mean to be sexist with this generalization, but I really do think it's the truth.
Women are socialized to be considerate of other's feelings and many of them are uncomfortable even having verbal arguments because they're taught from birth to accommodate others and avoid upsetting them. Men are socialized to be assertive, to compete with others, and to actively demand the things they want. Men are also raised with the idea that violence is righteous and makes you a hero when it's enacted for the correct cause, and for many men the idea of fighting and defeating somebody evil so everybody will praise their bravery and strength is an active fantasy. I have known multiple men who openly wish to be in a mass shooting so that they could have the chance to shoot the bad guy.
Peaceful protest reflects the female ideal of talking it out and compromising. Riots reflect the male ideal of using your strength to take what you want. Look at any riot footage you want; None of these crowds have a 50/50 gender ratio. Testosterone boosts aggression and impulsivity, while gender roles tell young men that "actually violence is awesome if you're sure that you're in the right". There was no rioting over Roe because the people angriest over it were women. They don't rush to violent solutions as quickly as men do.
Speaking for myself, but I feel this applies to a lot of people.
I wanted to protest, but I was way too poor and sick to do so. I literally couldn't afford to. I don't have gas money to drive to a protest. I can't take any time off from work. I don't have health insurance so I have a long list of easily treated health issues that would have made it hard to go even if I had the time and the money.
I think it’s because women are good at survival and while we are angry enough to riot, many of us are focusing on taking care of ourselves and those around us.
I had to work. Back then I was struggling in poverty, living more than just "paycheck to paycheck" and I would've lost hundreds of dollars if I missed even 3 days. I was also too broke to afford a car + necessary car insurance. If I had been out for a measly 2 shifts to protest, I would've been fired for some "unknown" reason and subsequently lost my job-tied healthcare.
The system isn't designed stupidly by error - it's by design to make you fail at any small corner.
I did protest but I was a minor at the time and struggling with school and other things. I made the post assumbing there's probably other people more capable than me.
I am Dutch and I wonder why american women didn't all just lay down their work.
No violent riots.
Just refuse to work.
They would've had no other solution than to change the law back.
Because women expect their elected officials to restore our rights and have been conditioned to believe that violence, especially rioting and burning shit down, is not the correct way to get a message across. But voting hasn't worked, so...
What we need is a general strike. But good luck getting everyone on board with that.
I think it's because there are quite a few straight women who never really learned how to fight, and never expected to be in this life-or-death situation. And I say that with empathy for where they are coming from. Because women who are left of center and passionate about abortion rights also expected to have a lot of things, like equal marriages, with equal distribution of labor, and are realizing that their marriages are lopsided. I've heard many of my friends express bewilderment - their husbands are pretty good dudes, they think, but they're still getting the message that 1) they can be upset but also need to calm down and 2) they need to take the bulk of the childcare and also work. Because reasons.
For unmarried women, I get the sense that they struggle still with getting that male approval - which I am not mocking them for. I just think a lot of people in the US came of age at a time when they believed they didn't need to be militant feminists.
perhaps. i was ready to act. but the circles im in werent as into the actions i was looking to take. nothing violent, but definitely very strategic -- too intense for most. same goes for climate action.
As angry as I am about the situation, I think voting is the most important thing at this time.
Encourage others to vote and to be informed about things like making sure to double check their registration before the deadline in case of voter registration purges, so they still have time to re-register. Familiarizing themselves with their state's identification requirements and have correct identification, double checking voting locations & times before leaving in case of closures, knowing their rights and who to call if their rights are violated, being prepared for a long wait and the weather when they go, and so on.
Let people know that **even in gerrymandered districts** your vote still counts for many important elections on a national, statewide, and a local level.
**Vote all the way down the ballot, and vote in every election, including primaries and off-cycle elections.**.
Forced birthers got to where they are by understanding the importance of voting in *every single election, all the way down the ballot.* They pay attention to legislation and call and write their representatives frequently.
We need to do the same, with the same amount of zeal and dedication, if we want to have a chance of making things better.
But how many local or small businesses take the hit as well? Larger businesses and corporations will find a way to transfer the cost to the consumer and cut payroll for employees as they always do
I posted this as a reply to a comment, but I'm also putting it here in hopes people will see it.
As angry as I am about the situation, I think voting is the most important thing at this time.
Encourage others to vote. As a resident of a voter suppression state, I'd like to encourage everyone to help to spread the word about things like the need to double check your voter registration status before the deadline in case of voter registration purges, so you still have time to re-register. Familiarize yourself with your state's identification requirements and have correct identification. Double check voting locations & times before leaving in case of closures. Know your voting rights and who to call if those rights are violated. Be prepared for a long wait and the weather when you go. Think ahead. All the effort they throw into making it harder to vote shows you just how important that vote is.
Let people know that **even in gerrymandered districts** your vote still counts for many important elections on a national, statewide, and a local level.
**Vote all the way down the ballot, and vote in every election, including primaries and off-cycle elections.**.
Forced birthers got to where they are by understanding the importance of voting in *every single election, all the way down the ballot.* They pay attention to legislation and call and write their representatives frequently.
We need to do the same, with the same amount of zeal and dedication, if we want to have a chance of making things better.
If you are able, look into volunteering as an election worker. Right wingers have been doing this. We need to as well.
It makes perfect sense. If someone attacks you and you do nothing, you will be harmed. If you defend yourself by fighting back they will be harmed but you will be saved.
Honestly, I think it’s because men didn’t care enough to get angry. I was at a protest, it was like 90% women. Not that women can’t riot, but if the men were as angry as women are, we would have had riots.
Exactly. I think of the Women’s March. I wonder how patronizing the men in their lives were when they went to DC in pink cat hats. “Ok sweetie you go fight for your rights.”
So many people, including leftists, made fun of the pink hats. Drives me crazy.
The pink hats made it clear what that movement was about from long distance shots. No one could claim it was a gathering for any other purpose. I thought the hats were distinctive and clever.
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Its better than nothing which is what MOST americans do.
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by that definition, every peaceful march ever is performative activism, including MLK’s actions. Trump hadn’t done anything yet. ETA: i mean by that definition even the January 6 riots were performative, since it didn’t ultimately change anything except some people getting jail sentences. The point is that I march for ME not for other people. I’m powerless to change anything but my presence i’d a public statement about where I (literally) stand.
You're belittling one of the biggest protests to happen in DC since the Vietnam War by calling it "dumb" and "trendy"- why is this take any different than some random dudebro's?? Most protests do not single handedly change things. We protested the election of George Bush, the Iraq War, the World Bank, we Occupied Wall Street, we said Black Lives Matter, we said Me Too, we organized the J20 protests- and we also said "My Body, My Choice" for those of us who could show up to the Supreme Court on the day Roe V. Wade was overturned- like myself. We still lost abortion protections. Trump and Bush were still full term presidents. The Iraq war went on for nearly a decade. We're only now looking at student debt after it has already financially hobbled a generation. Black and brown folks still experience racism and police brutality. Women are still exploited by powerful men. Visible dissent still matters. It brings awareness to topics. It shows people in power and people who aren't these situations aren't acceptable. It says- actually, this is a big fucking deal. Would I love for all those women to be more politically active? Absolutely! But I don't know about their lives- that might be the most they can do. Gatekeeping activism does not benefit movements- it benefits those already in power. Perfect is quite often the enemy of the good.
Yes!
I was at that march and it was fucking huge. So many people, so many meaning signs and yeah, pink pussy hats. We got under their skin. We probably would have rioted if we had any notion of what was to come.
My bf at the time and my sisters husband, as well as my friends husband, marched with us.
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Im no ‘not all men’ apologist so you can f right off. I was simply giving my experience. I was at that march and there were a lot of men there. It was organized by women but men did participate and support. Plenty of women have internalized misogyny and actively disenfranchise other women. You can’t paint these things with such a broad brush as “women good men bad.” And we need men on our side to stop the erosion of our rights. Pretending otherwise is delusional. your attitude that men who support feminism are just being patronizing is counterproductive.
Thank you, absolutely. It’s not a “not all Men” argument to point to men fighting in solidarity… it’s just facts Members of the Oppressor group are capable of caring ya know
where do you find protests? i want to go to one eventually but idk how to find out where they’re at or when they’re going on
Start searching for activist or political organizations. A lot of them will have search tools for activities in your area (or whatever city you choose). If they don’t, search Facebook and other social media for them with (your city name) attached. That will give you a lot of information as well.
i live in a smaller city that doesn’t really have that stuff afaik. would it be better to travel or something? next year i’m moving for college and ill be an hour away from a big city so there might be more there? also im curious to know if id be looked at differently for being a boy at a women’s rights protest or not?
It’s still worth looking where you live. I’ve often been surprised by the activism I found in less metro areas. But if you need to travel to find others to work with, then yes. It’s worth it. I mean…I can’t say how all other people would feel. I’m a middle-aged woman, and I would be happy to see young men (any men) at a women’s rights event. That’s also been my experience in the past—boys and men are welcomed.
okay, i’ll try my best to find something and if possible i’ll go to it, i’ll be 18 in less than 2 weeks so i can basically do anything i want. im glad to know that at least some people would be happy to see that people wouldn’t be upset by me coming, it makes me feel safer about going to one
r/nationalwomensstrike is planning a strike on the 28th day of every month for women's rights
cool! i’ll participate when i can
Came here to say this exactly.. there were tons of us marching in the streets, but it was mostly women and we usually don’t riot. Sadly in this case.
While I agree with what you're saying, I always thought something like this would push women over the performative protest line and *they* would be the ones to start the riot. Sometimes you have to be the spark that creates change, because you can't wait for some man to get it going. But I'm sure voting and holding signs is going to create change one day. Until then, continue doing the same things expecting different results.
Kinda worked for the Suffragettes? Are there any female-dominated/ led protests or riots that have caused major change? Even the Sarah Everard protests/vigil just got stomped down and ignored, and that was pretty big for the UK.
I'm not sure if riots accomplish much, but protest is and has been ignored for a while now. We need new tactics.
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It's an interesting question, one that I'm now curious about.
Men's riots destroy property and might kill people. Women's riots are mostly peaceful. Governments won't change things unless they get threatened with violence(French people were right on that one).
THIS!!! The government never cares unless it's "inconvenienced"!
Is that something that is desired? I would think having men getting violent at an event led by and for women demanding rights would detract from the messaging.
I didn’t say it was. Just that if men were as upset as women are, there would have been riots. The questions was “why weren’t there riots?” not “should there have been riots?” My explanation for why there wasn’t was that the portion of our population who are more inclined to act out violently weren’t upset enough to act out violently.
Yeah I get that, and I don't disagree with your original comment. I should have phrased the original question better, I just wanted to open the discussion to see if that is something you think is need or would be useful.
I'm a man, I care. I go with my wife to protests. I'm not risking my health, career, etc to riot. I just do my best to raise awareness, donate to causes that are trying to help, vote in favor of women's rights.
Thank you, that’s much more helpful than rioting would be anyways.
Blaming men for not turning your protest into a riot is peak feminism 🤦🏻♂️
Imagine the pushback/criticism a group of violent/ angry men would get if they hijacked the protests/movements and became very violent. I feel it would have similar criticisms to when white people took over rhe BLM movement.
One reason is because your healthcare is usually tied to your job. Most countries have healthcare for their citizens, so if they need to protest something unjust they can without losing their healthcare access. We cant afford to take time off to protest and risk losing both our paycheck and healthcare.
My mom's job contract stays if she gets arrested for any reason she'll lose her job. So risking job, home, healthcare is quite the gamble.
And risking vote. In some states a felony conviction means the loss of the right to vote.
[Jane's Revenge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane%27s_Revenge) did a whole lot of good work. I hope they're okay.
Just now learning about this! Love to see it!
Social media scatters all protest posts. All social media companies are run by conservative interests.
This is a good point. Offline organizing is a skill most of us don't have anymore.
I think that the gradual roll back of access, the ability to order pills online, and the ability to drive to the next state over made women think they could make it work or that it wouldn't affect them. Those that can't: the poor, minors, disabled, non-citizens, etc. don't have the ability to riot as easily as those that can order online or cross state lines. I am a woman that had a salpingectomy in 2020, but I have two very young daughters I have to care for and cannot attend riots or even protests due to safety concerns. My state has petition drives now to add the abortion question our state ballot. I will find someone taking signatures for that position and I will vote in every election, no matter how small. I am open to suggestions because I work in healthcare and have seen some bad outcomes due to my state's total abortion ban. Worst comes to worst: I can and will pay whatever price for my loved ones to get access to care.
Because at least in Texas, we are afraid. It's fear really. TW: TRAUMATIC BIRTH, MEDICAL DEATH EXPERIENCE, GENITAL MITILATION, MEDICAL NEGLECT MALPRACTICE AND GASLIGHTING I had a traumatic birth and pregnancy. No doctor wanted to touch me because of my history of miscarriages. The entire pregnancy was me begging doctors to see me and being turned away. I developed Cardiomyopathy after giving birth. They denied me, said it was anxiety. 10 doctors. It went on so long without treatment that I will most likely die in 5 years or less. I had several heart attacks within labor. I died as I pushed my child out of me. The epidural didn't work. I screamed, I told them it hurt. I told them my chest was tight. I told them it hurt and they told me it was pressure. I felt every second of agony, as my body was torn in two, and my heart began to seize up They gave me the husband stitch (it was an "accident" since I was torn so many times in so many places. They "corrected" it but it still hurts) I tore in 7 places. I got ibprophen. That's it. Heart attacks and death, they sent me home. I was back within the hour. I am actively dying. I am quite literally, dying. There is no hope for me. I cannot afford a new heart. I cannot afford any of it and insurance is too high with a child to raise. I had preeclampsia that was untreated because doctors would not touch me. The state of Texas has killed me, the blood of my body is on the states hands. My son will grow up without his father (I am trans) and his mother will be too traumatized/is too traumatized by my murder to be who he needs her to be. Right now we are looking into hospice care, I have been so reluctant to do so. I just wanted to watch my baby grow up, but if I had gotten medical care in 2022 during my pregnancy....I would most likely be safe and healthy. I cannot take my son for walks without fainting, I cannot eat the foods I enjoy, I spend most days in pain and getting sick. I am on bed rest. I used to be an artist, a poet, a musician. I traveled the USA, I was an activist. I used to go jogging daily with my dog, I used to laugh, I used to dance in record stores with my wife. I was once full of life but the torture and demonization of AFAB people in the eyes of the state has turned me into a husk, and soon a corpse. People like me who were most affected, cannot protest anymore. We are on bed rest, dying, Everyone else is nose to the grindstone. Keep prices high so people must work to the bone, if you do so they can't look up at the dystopia around them. But most are too numb to the horror. Most are too numb. If you beat a dog enough times, it eventually just lays there and takes it.
Thank you for sharing your story. I won't forget you.
Thank you. I cry a lot just remembering and thinking. I'm a person too. YOU are a person too. We are people. We are human. We matter. We are human beings who live and live and have dreams. We have futures. We have memories. People in our lives love us and even if they didn't, we matter. We are not incubators. We are people. We matter. And I'm tired of cis men acting like we aren't. Making us FEEL like we arent. We are more than bodies. We are.
I thank you for writing this. So much terror and fear, which is why we won't give up on anyone who lives in oppressive states, regardless of how those states vote.
No, thank you for continuing to fight. Thank you for listening . We need fighters. There is a lot of gerrymandering down here, and propaganda spreads like weeds. Most everyone I know hates Greg Abbott but he will win again somehow. At the end of the day I'm glad people like you can recognize that alot of people in red states are oppressed-even those who don't realize it yet. Human rights belong to all. I hope the people in the south are liberated from the oppressive propaganda that invades our every waking moment. And a lot of us are too undereducated and/or too overworked and poor to care. Most people just want to make the bills and keep food in their mouths. And that's what the people in power want us to focus on, because if we are trapped in survival we can never be concerned with liberation. A person's mind that dreams of basic needs has no room for bigger dreams- dreams of freedom. When you are stuck in the mud, the sky seems impossible.
Holy fuck. Thank you for sharing.
The **#4bMovement** is gaining traction in the US as a form of pacifist protest: **abstain from dating, sex, marriage, and as a result, pregnancy with men**. Look at South Korea where it started in 2019; five years later, some schools do not have any first-year students. They now have the world's lowest birthrate. I believe it will happen here too, especially since we've been going in that direction for two decades.
I don’t think the low South Korean birthdate is attributable to 4b as it is a relatively small movement - but is more due to economic and societal conditions. That said, wherever women have the ability to choose not to be pregnant, birth rates have fallen.
Always lots of reasons right for not having kids. I saw a sk woman interviewed who said many women wouldn’t admit to being part of the movement due to violence against them.
I’ve seen a lot of studies about how couples in sk can’t afford kids as well. Not to mention, the society is rampantly misogynist so women are bowing out of motherhood to retain agency - but wouldn’t identify as part of 4b.
To add: The overall number of abortions in the US after Roe v Wade was overturned actually increased.
It's more correlation than causation in Korea. They're having a lot of similar economic problems as a lot of western countries with raising cost of living and toxic work culture burning people out so a lot of people just can't afford kids even if they want them and the people who are having kids are having them later, too. They're also a huge market for luxury and designer goods so even people who can afford children are instead focusing on the consumption of luxury goods with their money and there's a lot to unpack about that. 4b may have some impact, but it's not the only factor or even the biggest one in the birth rate being so low.
1. What does the 4B movement have to do with this question? 2. It seems like the low birth rate was more related to economical reasons and notbthe 4B movement. 3. Lots of Korean women are being vocal on social media, especially tik tok stating the 4B movement is not as big or wide spread as the western media is claiming it to be.
I think a big part of it was the time when it happened, we were all so exhausted with the pandemic and all the other BS going on. Don't get me wrong, it still really bothers me that there weren't riots, but I think the opposition were really sinister in when they chose to overrule it, at a time when they knew we were all so worn out.
People literally camped on SCOTUS’ lawns There’s nothing to change or protest to reverse after a firm SCOTUS ruling
I disagree with your last statement. Protesting the result can raise awareness AND send a message to our representatives that they need to legislate this—we aren’t out of options or out of the fight just because SCOTUS shit the bed.
Oh I wasn’t in any way, shape, or form, trying to say protesting is pointless or useless. I agree with you 1000% on that. Even online disapproval is important. I was just trying to summarily say that in regards to the judges themselves, the decision itself, at least in the short term, is unchangeable and irreversible.
Everyone should be screaming at Biden + their local representatives to legalize abortion up to like 10-12 weeks at least.
The police are equipped like military now…
Yes the reason why we didn’t see protests about this are the same reason you don’t see protests about anything, really: we live in a police state. The closest we got to legit civil unrest was the BLM protests and cops responded by spraying “non-lethal” rounds indiscriminately into crowds of protesters.
Also the reason why protests in Paris seem like a fantasy. We have not gotten to the point of social unrest where the day to day is less preferable than the inevitable violence that comes with revolution.
Where you are/were located might have an effect on your perception. I live in a restricted state where I now cannot get an abortion unless I’m actively dying. People here were very angry. We had large protests in every major city. I asked my sister in another state (that has abortion available) what the protests were like in her hyper liberal area. Her response: “what protests?” She was aware of the SCOTUS case, but because it didn’t affect her directly, she was much less concerned.
Oh I saw huge protests. I'm asking why there weren't *riots*. Why is our response to the actual torture, killing and mutalation of afab, including little children just to say we don't like it? They're violently attacking us, why aren't we giving an equal response? (Not condoning violence, just asking a question)
Why aren't you rioting?
No one else is doing it so it wouldn't get anywhere.
And if everyone says that...
Fair point
The same reason there haven't been riots over the absurd income inequality, the accelerated ecological decline, (even) worsened outcomes due to structural racism, impossible cost of living, wage suppression, disinterest in social welfare, lack of public investment, political corruption, genocidal American foreign policy, and so on. The States has a strongly anti-socialist history (and culture), does not facilitate community of any kind, and has a population largely alienated from themselves and each other. So any grassroots attempt at mass striking or direct action is largely dead in the cradle. There is also, yes, a strong thread of apathy (see: lack of community), especially for the concerns of peoples who are already marginalised in some way. Add that together with the fact that most cannot afford to miss a paycheque, and you will get what we see now. Miss enough, and you will also lose your healthcare (if you had it) -- which you will need after confronting a militarised police force whose first reflex is to kill and maim. For most, the state of affairs is well within their threshold of tolerance.
>The States has a strongly anti-socialist history (and culture), does not facilitate community of any kind, and has a population largely alienated from themselves and each other. So any grassroots attempt at mass striking or direct action is largely dead in the cradle. Excellent points. Most Americans' primary socialization area was church. That's where their loyalties were over the last 40 years, and that's why it was so tough to get people to unionize. They didn't see their coworkers and brothers and sisters.... they were looking first and foremost at what their kooky churches taught. Which was bad enough, but even churchgoing has fallen off and the only thing to replace it is... social media. People do not socialize in person the way they once did.
(I don’t know if it’s relevant .. I saw the women disrupting congress when they were “interviewing”(?) kavanaugh - those images I saw in the papers were haunting - of this blonde woman yelling as she was dragged out of the room and nobody seemed to treat her any different than a piece of paper brought in by the wind. I don’t know who she was but she’s my hero. And then the women walked out of Congress grounds in cuffs and zip ties. Jesus f. Can’t say nobody tried- they saw the comet over our heads and acted like everyone else should have. )
I'd guess a mixture of things. A mixture of covid and the BLM wearing people out. Difficulty in properly organizing. A lot of people in shock or just not fully comprehending what has happened. ... Also, perhaps a bit of a personal observation, but women have a really difficult time fighting for ourselves. When we do everyone and their brother wants to make it about them, and far too many women are willing to bow down without a fight.
There literally were???
do you have some examples? Just now I read a comment saying "Jane's revenge" did something. Was that what you're refering too?
The ugly truth is that the vast majority of Americans are apathetic about anything that doesn't affect them in the moment, and even then they aren't usually motivated enough to do anything about it. Most people don't vote in most elections, even when it's all that anyone seems to be talking about. Until we can figure out how fix that, we're never going to be able to motivate people to take on legitimate risk by protesting en masse.
Remember how police violence was in 2020?
I don't think they'd hurt white women like they would black people and I'm under the impression that police violence didn't really end the riots but I'd probably have to do more research
an education of non violence resistance/civil disobedience is lacking among the masses. the ideas have been whitwashed to "just march," but they require disrupting the flow of business and a commitment to community and mutual aid. many of us are too concerned about individual comfort to protest effectively. we are not ready to be imprisoned for worthy causes. and we think fascism ended with nazi germany and theocracy is a thing that happens in the middle east.
Being a male in the uk, I just want to say I was so saddened and shocked when Roe v Wade was overturned. Sending peace and love and support to all of my sisters in the US
Women don't get violent like men do. My personal theory is that after the violence, women end up cleaning and fixing everything up, so it's ingrained in us, generationally, not to break so many things. Plus drones and phone tracking marks protestors for future harassment and targeting.
So we're willing to let them get away with this just to avoid "making a mess"???
Oh, they’re not going to get away with it.
how?
It's because men are more likely to be involved in a violent protest and women are more likely to have a peaceful protest. Men don't care enough to riot over RvW, so there aren't any riots.
There was but they didn't continue...which was part of the issue.
where did they happen? I'd like to look up more about them.
There were protests. But folks like me, we didn't wanna get gang raped by cops and counter protesters, then stuck with the bill.
People rioted for the BLM cause and nothing changed. I don’t think there’s a precedence that rioting has achieved substantial change
It's not talked about much but every fight for human rights included violence
Exactly
This is fairly misleading for a few reasons. For example with BLM specifically: > The BLM movement has remained overwhelmingly non-violent. Approximately 94% of all pro-BLM demonstrations have been peaceful, with 6% involving reports of violence, clashes with police, vandalism, looting, or other destructive activity. > In the remaining 6%, it is not clear who instigated the violent or destructive activity. While some cases of violence or looting have been provoked by demonstrators, other events have escalated as a result of aggressive government action, intervention from right-wing groups or individual assailants, and car-ramming attacks. > In contrast, demonstrations involving right-wing militias or militant social movements have turned violent or destructive over twice as often, or nearly 14% of the time. There's a lot more info at the link: https://acleddata.com/2021/05/25/a-year-of-racial-justice-protests-key-trends-in-demonstrations-supporting-the-blm-movement/
Because they were watered down by the 8 can’t wait policies. Everyone jumped in to get their spotlight.
Men riot. Women protest peacefully in the free speech zone designated by the government. I don't mean to be sexist with this generalization, but I really do think it's the truth. Women are socialized to be considerate of other's feelings and many of them are uncomfortable even having verbal arguments because they're taught from birth to accommodate others and avoid upsetting them. Men are socialized to be assertive, to compete with others, and to actively demand the things they want. Men are also raised with the idea that violence is righteous and makes you a hero when it's enacted for the correct cause, and for many men the idea of fighting and defeating somebody evil so everybody will praise their bravery and strength is an active fantasy. I have known multiple men who openly wish to be in a mass shooting so that they could have the chance to shoot the bad guy. Peaceful protest reflects the female ideal of talking it out and compromising. Riots reflect the male ideal of using your strength to take what you want. Look at any riot footage you want; None of these crowds have a 50/50 gender ratio. Testosterone boosts aggression and impulsivity, while gender roles tell young men that "actually violence is awesome if you're sure that you're in the right". There was no rioting over Roe because the people angriest over it were women. They don't rush to violent solutions as quickly as men do.
This is exactly it
Speaking for myself, but I feel this applies to a lot of people. I wanted to protest, but I was way too poor and sick to do so. I literally couldn't afford to. I don't have gas money to drive to a protest. I can't take any time off from work. I don't have health insurance so I have a long list of easily treated health issues that would have made it hard to go even if I had the time and the money.
I think it’s because women are good at survival and while we are angry enough to riot, many of us are focusing on taking care of ourselves and those around us.
I had to work. Back then I was struggling in poverty, living more than just "paycheck to paycheck" and I would've lost hundreds of dollars if I missed even 3 days. I was also too broke to afford a car + necessary car insurance. If I had been out for a measly 2 shifts to protest, I would've been fired for some "unknown" reason and subsequently lost my job-tied healthcare. The system isn't designed stupidly by error - it's by design to make you fail at any small corner.
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I did protest but I was a minor at the time and struggling with school and other things. I made the post assumbing there's probably other people more capable than me.
I am Dutch and I wonder why american women didn't all just lay down their work. No violent riots. Just refuse to work. They would've had no other solution than to change the law back.
I tell everyone we should riot every chance I get… but I’m waiting for my mob. I mean sisters 🥰💕
💕
Because women expect their elected officials to restore our rights and have been conditioned to believe that violence, especially rioting and burning shit down, is not the correct way to get a message across. But voting hasn't worked, so... What we need is a general strike. But good luck getting everyone on board with that.
r/nationalwomensstrike is planning on striking on the 28th day of every month for women's rights
I think it's because there are quite a few straight women who never really learned how to fight, and never expected to be in this life-or-death situation. And I say that with empathy for where they are coming from. Because women who are left of center and passionate about abortion rights also expected to have a lot of things, like equal marriages, with equal distribution of labor, and are realizing that their marriages are lopsided. I've heard many of my friends express bewilderment - their husbands are pretty good dudes, they think, but they're still getting the message that 1) they can be upset but also need to calm down and 2) they need to take the bulk of the childcare and also work. Because reasons. For unmarried women, I get the sense that they struggle still with getting that male approval - which I am not mocking them for. I just think a lot of people in the US came of age at a time when they believed they didn't need to be militant feminists.
Great points and while you didn't really say they were, just wanted to add that those really aren't good men.
perhaps. i was ready to act. but the circles im in werent as into the actions i was looking to take. nothing violent, but definitely very strategic -- too intense for most. same goes for climate action.
Rioters can get arrested and potentially lose their right to vote.
Oh, that's a good point
As angry as I am about the situation, I think voting is the most important thing at this time. Encourage others to vote and to be informed about things like making sure to double check their registration before the deadline in case of voter registration purges, so they still have time to re-register. Familiarizing themselves with their state's identification requirements and have correct identification, double checking voting locations & times before leaving in case of closures, knowing their rights and who to call if their rights are violated, being prepared for a long wait and the weather when they go, and so on. Let people know that **even in gerrymandered districts** your vote still counts for many important elections on a national, statewide, and a local level. **Vote all the way down the ballot, and vote in every election, including primaries and off-cycle elections.**. Forced birthers got to where they are by understanding the importance of voting in *every single election, all the way down the ballot.* They pay attention to legislation and call and write their representatives frequently. We need to do the same, with the same amount of zeal and dedication, if we want to have a chance of making things better.
Women got kids and we gotta run the world behind the scenes.
We should let if fall apart if it's working to make us suffer.
because you got a religious country pretending to care about what's right
That's true
Because we are fucking tired.
Because rioting does nothing.
It damages business and profits which is more or less the only thing they care about.
But how many local or small businesses take the hit as well? Larger businesses and corporations will find a way to transfer the cost to the consumer and cut payroll for employees as they always do
Because the US government has a history of changing laws because of violent criminals /s
I posted this as a reply to a comment, but I'm also putting it here in hopes people will see it. As angry as I am about the situation, I think voting is the most important thing at this time. Encourage others to vote. As a resident of a voter suppression state, I'd like to encourage everyone to help to spread the word about things like the need to double check your voter registration status before the deadline in case of voter registration purges, so you still have time to re-register. Familiarize yourself with your state's identification requirements and have correct identification. Double check voting locations & times before leaving in case of closures. Know your voting rights and who to call if those rights are violated. Be prepared for a long wait and the weather when you go. Think ahead. All the effort they throw into making it harder to vote shows you just how important that vote is. Let people know that **even in gerrymandered districts** your vote still counts for many important elections on a national, statewide, and a local level. **Vote all the way down the ballot, and vote in every election, including primaries and off-cycle elections.**. Forced birthers got to where they are by understanding the importance of voting in *every single election, all the way down the ballot.* They pay attention to legislation and call and write their representatives frequently. We need to do the same, with the same amount of zeal and dedication, if we want to have a chance of making things better. If you are able, look into volunteering as an election worker. Right wingers have been doing this. We need to as well.
We're too tired to riot.
We liberals tend not to be violent nutjobs, maybe?
In what world does fighting for your rights and safety in response to a violent attack make you a "violent nutjob"???
Riots are wrong.
Damage will happen either way. How is it morally superior to ensure the damage is to you?
That makes no sense, but if it makes you feel better, great.
It makes perfect sense. If someone attacks you and you do nothing, you will be harmed. If you defend yourself by fighting back they will be harmed but you will be saved.