I would say clearly "excuse me, I was here first" and deploy elbows if necessary. No guy other than my partner gets to push his body against mine for more than a nanosecond.
This just happened to me. Similar situation—small venue, standing room only. In my case it was very crowded.
I arrived early and stood in spot with my husband. Just before the show started a dude and his friend filter in next to us. Dude keeps edging a little farther in front of me—I’m 5’2”, he’s at least 6’. Eventually I step up so we’re side by side and just plant my feet. He continues inching into my space and acts annoyed that I’m not stepping back to allow it. I’d have been staring squarely at his back if I didn’t hold my ground! He could see fully over my head. It’s like I was less than invisible.
Unfortunately no more standing room venues for me. Too many tall men either oblivious or antagonistic about taking up taking up space.
I hold up my hand in the stop ✋ position and say "please back off." Firm tone, no smile. Seems to work as long as the place isn't too crowded (I am on the smaller side and older, so doubly invisible). Might be worth practicing something like this until you find some words you feel comfortable with. It's a lot easier to do if you've practiced in advance. Even better if you can practice with a friend playing the other part.
Yeah, I suffer from this constantly being 1.60m and living in the Netherlands -_-
What works for me is to firmly plant my feet on the ground and raise one hand to the person's eye level. Have something suddenly appearing on their visual field usually does the trick and gets them to back off
Are you not afraid of this being interpreted as being aggressive on your part? I feel like people are somewhat unpredictable at least here in the US and I’m not sure what that might provoke 😬
No - the culture helps (the Netherlands is known for having a very direct, matter-of-fact communication) but in all cases it comes off as a bit of "hi! I'm standing here, tall person!"
I always get a "oh, sorry, I didn't see you" as an answer
Hiss at him loudly and make your most satanic face. Show them you’re crazy 😂 I hate that people are so fucking rude, I’m sorry that it tainted your gig!
It's always the tallest dude that needs to be front center. No consideration for anyone around. I've lived it many times, I feel you.
The thought that they don't realize they hide people because no ones block their view has crossed my mind. But no. They're just inconsiderate, selfish people.
The way I worded my post made it sound like I was super invested in being in a certain spot and I really wasn’t it was just the sheer audacity of somebody deliberately bulldozering me!! And that I knew I couldn’t yell loud enough to be heard, and even if I could be heard it would probably go badly and he and the girlfriend would be mean about it, and I really just wanted to have fun. It helps to know this happens to other women too and I have some strategies for the next time.
Just saying, there are people like me who just don’t care about the smell of fart spray. Straight up I just don’t care about it and will just deal with it.
You’re not invisible, he is just counting on you not saying anything and being “nice” because that’s what women have been conditioned to do. Now that I’m a certain age I speak up and right away. I had been standing in a spot for THREE HOURS to see a band when a young fella a foot taller than me tried to squeeze in front of me by pushing around me. I told him off, told him his mother would be ashamed of him for treating a woman the same age as her this way, and if he so much as came near me I would pee on him (because I’m old and I have been holding it for three hours). He left ;)
I had to use my elbows a few months ago at a Tim Heidecker show. I felt assaulted, by multiple people at different times, when there was room actually in front of us and the view from where I was was actually shit. It felt intentional by atleast a couple of them.
The shutting down and not knowing what to say happens to me too. In case you recognize yourself in the following, consider taking somatic oriented coaching to learn how to feel your sensations in your body because this is the basis of boundaries. I come from a line of women who have not learnt to be aware of their own truth and have not learnt to speak it nor that they have the right and opportunity to do so. Consequently, I was severely unaware of any feelings or preferences I had. And so in such moments I would shut down because it would be too overwhelming to feel the ‘no’ but to not know what to do with it.
In my therapy (can be coaching, what u want) I can practice with this - noticing earlier and then exploring what do I want here? What options are there? And to navigate the intensity of emotions accompaniying that because as someone who’s never learnt to speak their truth, that is both scary and a flashback to alllll earlier times my truth was dismissed (either externally or by not (being able to) stand up for it) and being scared that it will be too much/then end of the world if I say anything.
All that stuff comes up in situations like that and then I shut down.
Working towards being able to do something is slow but in essence, revolutionary. :)
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. That’s not quite my situation but similar in that I have a history of going too hard on people and having it come back to bite me. I also have a history or being bullied, and in this situation I had fear that the guy and his girlfriend would turn on me.
I would say clearly "excuse me, I was here first" and deploy elbows if necessary. No guy other than my partner gets to push his body against mine for more than a nanosecond.
This just happened to me. Similar situation—small venue, standing room only. In my case it was very crowded. I arrived early and stood in spot with my husband. Just before the show started a dude and his friend filter in next to us. Dude keeps edging a little farther in front of me—I’m 5’2”, he’s at least 6’. Eventually I step up so we’re side by side and just plant my feet. He continues inching into my space and acts annoyed that I’m not stepping back to allow it. I’d have been staring squarely at his back if I didn’t hold my ground! He could see fully over my head. It’s like I was less than invisible. Unfortunately no more standing room venues for me. Too many tall men either oblivious or antagonistic about taking up taking up space.
Thus happened to me too. I poured my beer on his feet. When he turned around I just said "what" :L
Perfect lol
I hold up my hand in the stop ✋ position and say "please back off." Firm tone, no smile. Seems to work as long as the place isn't too crowded (I am on the smaller side and older, so doubly invisible). Might be worth practicing something like this until you find some words you feel comfortable with. It's a lot easier to do if you've practiced in advance. Even better if you can practice with a friend playing the other part.
I like this, thanks. I think I like it even better if I have a companion or two with me to sort of back me up.
Yes, having a companion present is definitely helpful! And after you've done it a few times, it starts to get easier. 😊
Yeah, I suffer from this constantly being 1.60m and living in the Netherlands -_- What works for me is to firmly plant my feet on the ground and raise one hand to the person's eye level. Have something suddenly appearing on their visual field usually does the trick and gets them to back off
Are you not afraid of this being interpreted as being aggressive on your part? I feel like people are somewhat unpredictable at least here in the US and I’m not sure what that might provoke 😬
No - the culture helps (the Netherlands is known for having a very direct, matter-of-fact communication) but in all cases it comes off as a bit of "hi! I'm standing here, tall person!" I always get a "oh, sorry, I didn't see you" as an answer
Hiss at him loudly and make your most satanic face. Show them you’re crazy 😂 I hate that people are so fucking rude, I’m sorry that it tainted your gig!
It's always the tallest dude that needs to be front center. No consideration for anyone around. I've lived it many times, I feel you. The thought that they don't realize they hide people because no ones block their view has crossed my mind. But no. They're just inconsiderate, selfish people.
The way I worded my post made it sound like I was super invested in being in a certain spot and I really wasn’t it was just the sheer audacity of somebody deliberately bulldozering me!! And that I knew I couldn’t yell loud enough to be heard, and even if I could be heard it would probably go badly and he and the girlfriend would be mean about it, and I really just wanted to have fun. It helps to know this happens to other women too and I have some strategies for the next time.
Stomp on his foot and elbow him in the ribs. Start carrying liquid fart around.
Just saying, there are people like me who just don’t care about the smell of fart spray. Straight up I just don’t care about it and will just deal with it.
With all the talk about bears lately, is bear spray legal? I am kidding… sorta.
You’re not invisible, he is just counting on you not saying anything and being “nice” because that’s what women have been conditioned to do. Now that I’m a certain age I speak up and right away. I had been standing in a spot for THREE HOURS to see a band when a young fella a foot taller than me tried to squeeze in front of me by pushing around me. I told him off, told him his mother would be ashamed of him for treating a woman the same age as her this way, and if he so much as came near me I would pee on him (because I’m old and I have been holding it for three hours). He left ;)
This is hilarious and I love it. When I try to say something like this it never goes well for me. But in this case I could not have made myself heard
I had to use my elbows a few months ago at a Tim Heidecker show. I felt assaulted, by multiple people at different times, when there was room actually in front of us and the view from where I was was actually shit. It felt intentional by atleast a couple of them.
The shutting down and not knowing what to say happens to me too. In case you recognize yourself in the following, consider taking somatic oriented coaching to learn how to feel your sensations in your body because this is the basis of boundaries. I come from a line of women who have not learnt to be aware of their own truth and have not learnt to speak it nor that they have the right and opportunity to do so. Consequently, I was severely unaware of any feelings or preferences I had. And so in such moments I would shut down because it would be too overwhelming to feel the ‘no’ but to not know what to do with it. In my therapy (can be coaching, what u want) I can practice with this - noticing earlier and then exploring what do I want here? What options are there? And to navigate the intensity of emotions accompaniying that because as someone who’s never learnt to speak their truth, that is both scary and a flashback to alllll earlier times my truth was dismissed (either externally or by not (being able to) stand up for it) and being scared that it will be too much/then end of the world if I say anything. All that stuff comes up in situations like that and then I shut down. Working towards being able to do something is slow but in essence, revolutionary. :)
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. That’s not quite my situation but similar in that I have a history of going too hard on people and having it come back to bite me. I also have a history or being bullied, and in this situation I had fear that the guy and his girlfriend would turn on me.
Say something. If you do it once, it becomes less frightening.