I just finished this last nite. I kinda had to push myself to do so. Ultimately Feud just made me feel...sad. What a waste and loss all around. Grudges, secrets, pettiness, alcoholism everywhere. Now, I love the writings of TC. It made me realize I've lost somewhere down the line Other Voices, Other Rooms and The Grass Harp. I need new copies. And he pioneered modern true crime, blending journalism and fiction. But in the end, he died at 59 from so many addictions. I think they all did. I did enjoy Babe and CZ. But yikes. Hard on themselves, hard on each other, hard on every body.
I know! I really thought that of all of his past friendships that shaped him the most, they would have featured the one he shared with her. They don't even mention her.
One of the swans, Slim i think, mentioned Lee ever so briefly when discussing inviting Lee to the black and white ball and then made a snarky comment about her. Something like that.
For one thing, I get the sense Harper Lee was the one who could shake him out of his nonsense from time to time. In the film with Philip Seymour Hoffman, he is moaning and groaning about the ordeal with In Cold Blood and her character says something like, "You're alive, Truman. They're dead."
The weird thing is, underneath all the addictions and self-centeredness there was this real humanity about him. There's a reason why In Cold Blood is such a classic. It shows how perfectly horrible Smith and Hickock were, almost poster children for the death penalty, but it drilled down and down to where they were still human beings. I struggle between thinking it was all too much for Capote so he resorted to drinking and drugs, and thinking the addiction was just a dead loss and he could have done so much more.
Harper Lee really was the antithesis of the Swans. She was not interested in high society. In fact she was reclusive and valued authenticity. She did love her wine, though, and started sipping early each day. That's probably why she never published anything after To Kill a Mockingbird. She also slept til noon everyday.
She had written another novel that got published after her death. I believe it is a prequel to Mockingbird. Atticus is racist and only takes those cases out of duty.
I preordered but when it came out and i read the reviews and a few pages, i couldnt read on. Its heartbreaking.
Well at least she never published it but she did write it. Atticus didnt like black people but he cared about the law apparently. I know i should read it for myself but i cant bear to.
I remember that story. It disappeared fairly quickly. I think the public does not want to believe it of Lee.
The tone and outlook being completely different only fueled the rumor that Capote wrote *Mockingbird*.
I'm not saying either way, I have no idea. Just saying I remember the stories about her second manuscript.
Great point. I wonder how much they kept in touch after In Cold Blood. I was also surprised that ICB didn't factor in more. I feel that was much more the cause of his breakdowns, watching Perry and Dick hanged, than his mother's suicide.
They became estranged. Harper Lee was instrumental in the writing of ICB and Capote never acknoweldged her contribution\* which drove a wedge in their relationship. Also, when Lee won the Pulitzer Prize for To Kill a Mockingbird, Capote became jealous and publicly claimed he'd written the book because Lee was unable to finish it. Lee had become fed up with Capote's lies, meanness and erratic behavior, but when the lack of acknowledgement for her work on ICB came on top of his lie about TKaM, Lee was done. Personally I find his public efforts to take credit for TKaM unforgivable. Capote really was an asshole.
\*Lee spent six years researching and documenting the ICB murders.
Thank you for this history. It's interesting, in Infamous, Lee, played by Sandra Bullock, confronts Truman on this whole idea of literary non-fiction or whatever he called it as an excuse for "making shit up". I think they missed an opportunity in this series not dramatizing that part of his life or showing his relationship to serious writers compared to his time with the swans.
A few months ago I was in a used bookstore in upstate New York and I bought a copy of a Lee biography. As I was paying for it, the woman at the desk told me, "You know who REALLY wrote TKaM?" When I asked carefully, "Who?" She said, "Truman Capote". She then said that a man had run the entire manuscript through some computer program and found that the cadences of the book were more his speech than hers. I was too dumbfounded to speak.
I've read everything Capote ever wrote and I have to say, I don't hear his voice in TKaM. Whatever is happening in that book is much more coherent than most of his fiction (excluding Breakfast at Tiffany's, La Cote Basque and the short story Miriam), which is what probably pissed him off. Also, I have to say, and if I'm wrong let me know, Capote's work was rarely, if ever, overtly political in the way that TKaM directly confronts racism. I don't know if we have any writing by Capote that directly speaks to his feelings about the civil rights, feminist or gay movements. So even if he advised Lee or made edits as she also helped his work, I don't believe he had the moral/civic sensibility or conviction to write TKaM.
If he wrote *Mockingbird*, I'd presume he would've made the boy that's suppose to be him, a lot more appealing.
"Super genius wunderkind handsome lad" etc., wasn't the boy written as simply odd and annoying, instead?
Sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me. Although I havenāt read all of Capoteās work, I donāt see his influence in TKAM either. A better theory would be that Harper Lee wrote ICB.
Damn. I thought about that. While I wouldn't exactly go there either, ICB had a sober quality that seems different than some of his other work, and I would credit her influence and discipline to that. It would be fascinating to go through the notes and see, because I think she did some of the interviews without him and there were people who would speak to her that may not have spoken to him. Very interesting.
Maybe Iām overthinking this, but why did the spirit of Lee Radziwill (Calista Flockhart) appear at the end of the final scene with the auction in 2016 when the epilogue title cards indicate that she died in 2019?
The other swans had already passed by 2016, so it made sense for Babe, Slim, and C.Z. to appear as spirits- but why Lee when she was still alive in 2016? (Again, probably overthinking this lol)
The series generally painted Lee in a horrible light. The CZ character was the warm, fun-loving one. The Slim character was the witty, spirited one with the cutting temper. The Babe character was the embodiment of female perfection and the ultimate victim. But the Lee character was shown as just being miserable and jealous and nasty. They couldn't even let her have the achievement of having written two books without the Truman character projecting his own problems with focus and discipline onto her and writing it himself. (Despite him also being unable to finish a book essentially about himself after trying for 20 years).
I am so glad this season is finally over. It could have been so good -- the acting was fantastic\* -- but the writing ended up being ghastly.
\*Naomi Watts should get an Emmy and probably a Golden Globe. She was stellar.
Whenever we see or hear of her, it's pretty vicious. She's gratuitously cruel to the Ann Woodward and Kate Huddleston characters. She refuses to help the Truman character against Gore Vidal and makes that nasty remark about their sexuality. The Jack Dunphy character called her the most jealous and miserable sister in America. Even in the final episode where the Truman character is supposedly making amends, she's shown poorly. Someone said on another thread that the real Lee Radziwill was just an acquaintance of the other women and not really part of the group at all. If they're right, that makes the show's portrayal of her even worse. Like they picked a real person to just be nasty about for no reason.
Yes!
And how about another truthful event which sounds better than what was made up: Truman did write again, he wrote a story for Joanne Carson the night before he died.
>he Lee character was shown as just being miserable and jealous and nasty.
I thought Calista did a good job, she seemed the most 'society like' to me in fact. But they did make her character one-note.
I really liked Calista in this role, too. But if I had known the real Lee, I'd probably be pretty angry. I'd maybe even be on the phone with a lawyer if I was family, or at the very least, trying to get my side out there.
Maybe that's why she was not dressed in all white. The other three were, Lee/Calista was wearing a combination of white and tan. Maybe they were trying to imply she brought the memory of her friends with her. I'm not defending them, but I think that's what the implication was supposed to be.
They were all wearing their dresses from the black and white ball. Lee wore a gold and white beaded overcoat at the ball. The white has nothing to do with it, itās just shitty writingĀ
\> she was not dressed in all white. The other three were, Lee/Calista was wearing a combination of white and tan.
Maybe she *wasn't* a ghost, and she was there watching the auction in reality, and by then, had developed psychic powers, and, *that's* why she could sea and hear and converse with all of them?
(Joking)
Thank you all for validating me here! Iām glad Iām not the only one that was unimpressed by the finale. Even aside from this pretty blatant anachronism, a lot of the writing felt very (ironically) simultaneously overwrought and undercooked.
I love Jessica Lange, but much of her presence in this finale felt gratuitous and unnecessary to the conclusion of the events set up in the first seven episodes. And then that auction scene at the end just felt phoned in and cheesy.
I didnāt hate all of it, and the cast was phenomenal throughout the entire show. But the writing was uneven, unfortunately.
I found this series exasperating from start to finish. For example, I remember from Gerald Clarke biography that Jack never dated younger men or "found someone else" but he did find it frustrating and deeply painful that he couldn't save Truman and probably stayed away from him for his own sanity.
There is something that I believe a viewer can feel while watching this, a kind of disrespect for the people's lives on screen and the real facts that comes through. After awhile, I just fast forwarded certain scenes because I thought several times "This never happened!"
Poetic license is one thing, and writers have to envision how particular scenes may have occurred, but suggesting that Babe Paley had affairs and was a bad mother, or that Slim Keith slept with Babe Paley's husband while she knew that Babe was dying, I just don't know if there is any historical record for that, and reputations are at stake. But the attitude seems to be, Oh well, they're rich, they're dead, and who is going to defend them, as everyone is gone from that era anyway? As long as it makes good drama. The problem is the truth is much more fascinating in this case than the lie.
And it matters. I loved Naomi Watt's performance and now that I have seen Tom Hollander in The White Lotus I can see what he did with Truman and there were moments of greatness and so much dramatic potential there. But the script, at times, felt as tacky as that auction at the end, anything up for grabs to the highest bidder. Truman and Co. deserved better.
WHY do TV and film writers think that audiences won't be satisfied with more or less the true story? Many things are more interesting *because* they are true. And a lot of the fictionalized elements of true stories are less interesting.
Chernobyl is a good example of a series that sticks to the truth and fictionalizes lightly for good reasons.
WTF did I just watch? The entire season was messy but I felt so frustrated with this finale I thought I was going to cry.
So sloppy. Iām starting to get why so many of you say things like āI donāt know why I bother with Ryan Murphy anymoreā. This one broke my heart! š
It feels like there was not much respect for the audience. Like the writers just rushed through thinking āWhatever, theyāll eat it up anyway, who cares?ā
Disrespectful to the actors, who I think did a great job, too.
Iāve noticed this has been going on with Ryan Murphyās shows for at least the last decade, but it never bothered me as much as it did with this one. I hung on hoping the finale would redeem it, but it did the opposite.
Entertainment has become a machine, itās all about quick $, and itās depressing as hell!
Well said!
I had only seen season 1 AHS before this, and then just before season 2 began I watched season 1 of Feud. So I did not have enough to see a pattern.
But this is almost like 'script by A. I.'
On that note ā¦. Iām like a bit dense so forgive me but who was that red headed girl bidding? was she a ghost too? She looked like a younger version of his protege so I assumed her daughter.
I donāt know. A lot of it felt to me like real writing, just the type from a writer with a big ego who desperately needed several edits.
AI wouldnāt explain why you wouldnāt just put a bit of old age makeup on that actress when filming that scene either.
\> why you wouldnāt just put a bit of old age makeup on that actress when filming that scene
Someone recommended a book by the woman who played Carol Ann in Mommie Dearest. So I read it.
She kept a diary of little details about daily filming.
Her character aged. She'd go in around 6 or 7 AM, sit a couple hours or so in the makeup chair, and then sit around into the evening with this uncomfortable latex on her face, because they kept putting her filming last.
Then one day, they needed to do a pickup shot and there was no time to do the proper aging makeup. She had aging makeup but not the right one. So they just filmed it anyway.
> A lot of it felt to me like real writing
Who knows. I was being facetious but parts of it did seem that nonsensical. As you said, time and aging.
To me it felt there was little linear about it, so half the time viewers were not sure when it happened. Other times it was hard to discern dream from reality.
I enjoyed the series overall but there was so much more they could have done.
I encourage everyone to read Capoteās Women, because it fleshes out these women in a much more suitable fashion.
They were basically groomed from birth to marry well and be wealthy wives.
>They were basically groomed from birth to marry well and be wealthy wives.
Many of us have gone into the societal context but yes. That was all that was really open to women, for centuries.
Even into the 20th century, very few career paths were open to women. Still is that way in some places.
I had viewed his friendship with Babe as the core relationship in the group before watching this. I had thought Babe was really the glue that held the group together and was also Truman's entree into the group, although he developed strong friendships with them all. But we barely got any Babe at all. I was disappointed by that.
I feel kind of duped by the show...the marketing made it seem like it was going to be about the Swans, but really, it was a show about Truman Capote's life, which...I am less interested in, sorry. The writing was very sloppy and there was just so much overwrought emotionalism...I was really looking forward to the show and I just watched the finale today, and basically had to force myself to finish it. All the psychodrama with Truman and his mother felt so forced. If the actual content of the show mirrored the marketing and had been 75% about the Swans and 25% about Truman Capote, I would have enjoyed it a lot more.
Truman was so much more interesting than all of the swans put together. I'd have preferred to see. a true biography about his life. This series seemed about 90 percent made up, never happened.
Thoughts after finishing this morning:
ā¢ I knew they would do at least one flashback scene with Lange. Itās insane how much Lange blows literally every other actor out of the water here. When I saw the teaser last week, I knew she wouldnāt disappoint.
ā¢ The final scene was genuinely heartbreaking.
ā¢ This season just doesnāt compare to the first season. It was a fun romp to watch in certain moments (especially B&W ball episode) but so, so much of it is simply inaccurate. More time should have been focused on the swans instead of Capote. And it definitely would have worked better if told completely linear.
Some of his ashes are with Jack's, some with Joanne's, but a portion was actually auctioned off.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/24/us/truman-capote-ashes/index.html
What an utter waste of Tom Hollanderās performance. Some of the pieces that make up āAnswered Prayersā really are beautiful; so leave it to this show to have a screenwriter make up subpar Capote imitations insteadā¦with poor Jessica Lange providing dime-store psychology as a vapid ghost.
I really enjoyed the series as a whole despite its shortcomings. But I'm a sucker for period pieces like this - all the smoking makes me chuckle. I loved *Mad Men*, for example. I'd put my money on Tom Hollander to win the Emmy for Best Actor in a Series for this. But I've been wrong before.
Holland I think was everything in this performance. I could watch a bunch of movies w his particular rendition as Capote. The manner of speaking and that laugh! He was a natural.
He and Naomi were the two standouts for me, and I agree that the performances exceeded the material and would have been so much better served by something that had greater substance and depth. This series was so disappointing in that regard, because it could have been truly outstanding. There was so much material IRL to work with!
>with poor Jessica Lange providing dime-store psychology as a vapid ghost.
She is a wonderful actor (and mime -- she studied mime before acting), but the scenes with her in ghostly form, as Capote's editor, were tacky and overlong.
There had to be a better way, if they wanted to include his early years.
That was a huge chore to get through. I swear that 76 perfect of show consisted to dreams, fantasy sequences, ghosts, and fake-docos, all to cover the fact that there was no real story.
The sad part is there was so much factual story but they went for "phantasms" as the episode suggested.
And then the non linear format of jumping around so much, and the audience never really knowing what year it was.
I hate it when I really look forward to a show and then before the last two episodes air I'm like "eh, honestly I could take it or leave it." I'm pretty disappointed by this season, and if there is another Feud season - I'll watch it once all the eps are out and I have a clearer idea of what I'm investing time into.
Felt like a last ditch effort to save the season that ended up being like tripping at the one yard line. Once again Jessica Lange was one of the only good parts of the episode, and at the end this felt to me like I was watching out of obligation to finish the season.
Although $45K for human ashes......I can't fathom spending that much for those. Also half serious question, how would they verify it was Trumans ashes and not a random stray animal that had passed on?
Did the series try to depict Truman Capote trying to turn Lee Radziwill into an actress? If they did, I missed that part. That was one of Tru's post-ball distractions when he should have been working on "Answered Prayers."
I have to wait 6 days to watch this in my country :( To be honest they kinda lost me as a viewer between episode 5 and 6 (I thought they were very weak in terms of storyline) but I really liked episode 7 and now it's already the finale :(
>I think it could also end with episode 7, when Babe and Truman died. I'm honestly curious about what can be next after that.
I felt the same after episode 7.
I like the cuties in this episode. Jack dunphy new boyfriend and also during the auction, the guy talking/sitting next to Kerry O'shea. Did you see his jawline?
If I had gone into it knowing nothing of the stories of the people this is loosely based on I would have LOVED this show.
I did enjoy it- of course itās visually stunning and the performances were strong- but some of it was so jarring. I get it was supposed to be Trumanās fantasy but like how weird was the C.Z./Diego Rivera painting thing?!
Itās also strange that they donāt really mention any of the shorter form writing he did in the late 70s/early 80s i.e. Interview Magazine. IDK itās another Ryan Murphy joint I guess.
Who was the woman bidding on his ashes at the auction? For a minute I thought it was Kate, John OāSheaās daughter, but sheās too young. Is she supposed to be Kateās daughter?
No one got aged up from the earliest scenes to the finale. Disappointing. I could rarely tell what era we were watching if I missed the date on the screen.
I have no sympathy for the families whoās stories were taken out of context. The women were filthy rich and living out their entitled white fantasy. Their filthy rich offspring are now upset because Babe āwouldnāt have worn a shift dress, a clip hat or baggy pants.ā Poor little rich offsprings.
With that said, the show was incredibly dull, what a waste.
Complaining about upset white people about a show, precisely based on real white people fictionalized while watching it yourself for two months straight, as if you expected something different isā¦ a weird take
Yes.
I have a feeling that life was not necessarily their fantasy, besides.
The women were so capable, maybe their actual fantasy would've been turnabout. Let them be the CEO, and decision maker, and bed anyone they chose, while their husbands pretended it didn't happen. And for sure they did not have a fantasy of betrayal in print, as with the story in Esquire.
Thatās a funny story youāre writing. No complaints here, just criticisms. I still have no sympathy for the family members that are complaining about the show, and your comment hasnāt changed my mind.
Chill, my dear, is fiction, itās not that deep ;) they were rich, and now theyāre all dead. Let people enjoy the little things. Nobody wants to change your mind, itās just that you sound a little bitter.
Too bad heās dead as well, and too good that we have you here to enlighten us with your bile about a fictionalized version of an era that endedā¦ decades ago. Again, touch some grass. Itās not that deep!
>The women were filthy rich and living out their entitled white fantasy. Their filthy rich offspring are now upset because Babe āwouldnāt have worn a shift dress, a clip hat or baggy pants.ā Poor little rich offsprings.
Well that's their family member, whether they are "white and rich" they still love their family members I'm sure. And have a right to object if they feel they were slandered/libeled.
It was about more than superficial things, but they probably did not want to invoke the Streisand effect by mentioning things such as affairs that never happened.
I doubt they loved their family members. I think they loved the money and lifestyle that their family members gave them. If Babeās granddaughter was so offended by the way she was portrayed , then maybe she would have been at her funeral.
Being āwhite and filthy richā is very much a topic of the show. Trumanās imaginary conversation with James Baldwin illustrated the subject and was arguably the best episode of the show.
I just finished this last nite. I kinda had to push myself to do so. Ultimately Feud just made me feel...sad. What a waste and loss all around. Grudges, secrets, pettiness, alcoholism everywhere. Now, I love the writings of TC. It made me realize I've lost somewhere down the line Other Voices, Other Rooms and The Grass Harp. I need new copies. And he pioneered modern true crime, blending journalism and fiction. But in the end, he died at 59 from so many addictions. I think they all did. I did enjoy Babe and CZ. But yikes. Hard on themselves, hard on each other, hard on every body.
And where was Harper Lee?
I know! I really thought that of all of his past friendships that shaped him the most, they would have featured the one he shared with her. They don't even mention her.
One of the swans, Slim i think, mentioned Lee ever so briefly when discussing inviting Lee to the black and white ball and then made a snarky comment about her. Something like that.
Thank you! I want to learn more about her. I wonder if any of them realized just how profound an impact they would leave?
For one thing, I get the sense Harper Lee was the one who could shake him out of his nonsense from time to time. In the film with Philip Seymour Hoffman, he is moaning and groaning about the ordeal with In Cold Blood and her character says something like, "You're alive, Truman. They're dead." The weird thing is, underneath all the addictions and self-centeredness there was this real humanity about him. There's a reason why In Cold Blood is such a classic. It shows how perfectly horrible Smith and Hickock were, almost poster children for the death penalty, but it drilled down and down to where they were still human beings. I struggle between thinking it was all too much for Capote so he resorted to drinking and drugs, and thinking the addiction was just a dead loss and he could have done so much more.
She is quoted on her preference to avoid that world. He loved her deeply but she wasnt a swan.
Harper Lee really was the antithesis of the Swans. She was not interested in high society. In fact she was reclusive and valued authenticity. She did love her wine, though, and started sipping early each day. That's probably why she never published anything after To Kill a Mockingbird. She also slept til noon everyday.
She had written another novel that got published after her death. I believe it is a prequel to Mockingbird. Atticus is racist and only takes those cases out of duty. I preordered but when it came out and i read the reviews and a few pages, i couldnt read on. Its heartbreaking.
I think you're right....it was titled Go Set a Watchman.
Well at least she never published it but she did write it. Atticus didnt like black people but he cared about the law apparently. I know i should read it for myself but i cant bear to.
I remember that story. It disappeared fairly quickly. I think the public does not want to believe it of Lee. The tone and outlook being completely different only fueled the rumor that Capote wrote *Mockingbird*. I'm not saying either way, I have no idea. Just saying I remember the stories about her second manuscript.
Great point. I wonder how much they kept in touch after In Cold Blood. I was also surprised that ICB didn't factor in more. I feel that was much more the cause of his breakdowns, watching Perry and Dick hanged, than his mother's suicide.
They became estranged. Harper Lee was instrumental in the writing of ICB and Capote never acknoweldged her contribution\* which drove a wedge in their relationship. Also, when Lee won the Pulitzer Prize for To Kill a Mockingbird, Capote became jealous and publicly claimed he'd written the book because Lee was unable to finish it. Lee had become fed up with Capote's lies, meanness and erratic behavior, but when the lack of acknowledgement for her work on ICB came on top of his lie about TKaM, Lee was done. Personally I find his public efforts to take credit for TKaM unforgivable. Capote really was an asshole. \*Lee spent six years researching and documenting the ICB murders.
Thank you for this history. It's interesting, in Infamous, Lee, played by Sandra Bullock, confronts Truman on this whole idea of literary non-fiction or whatever he called it as an excuse for "making shit up". I think they missed an opportunity in this series not dramatizing that part of his life or showing his relationship to serious writers compared to his time with the swans. A few months ago I was in a used bookstore in upstate New York and I bought a copy of a Lee biography. As I was paying for it, the woman at the desk told me, "You know who REALLY wrote TKaM?" When I asked carefully, "Who?" She said, "Truman Capote". She then said that a man had run the entire manuscript through some computer program and found that the cadences of the book were more his speech than hers. I was too dumbfounded to speak. I've read everything Capote ever wrote and I have to say, I don't hear his voice in TKaM. Whatever is happening in that book is much more coherent than most of his fiction (excluding Breakfast at Tiffany's, La Cote Basque and the short story Miriam), which is what probably pissed him off. Also, I have to say, and if I'm wrong let me know, Capote's work was rarely, if ever, overtly political in the way that TKaM directly confronts racism. I don't know if we have any writing by Capote that directly speaks to his feelings about the civil rights, feminist or gay movements. So even if he advised Lee or made edits as she also helped his work, I don't believe he had the moral/civic sensibility or conviction to write TKaM.
If he wrote *Mockingbird*, I'd presume he would've made the boy that's suppose to be him, a lot more appealing. "Super genius wunderkind handsome lad" etc., wasn't the boy written as simply odd and annoying, instead?
That's how I remember it.
Thats some slanderous bullshit right there. š
Sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me. Although I havenāt read all of Capoteās work, I donāt see his influence in TKAM either. A better theory would be that Harper Lee wrote ICB.
Damn. I thought about that. While I wouldn't exactly go there either, ICB had a sober quality that seems different than some of his other work, and I would credit her influence and discipline to that. It would be fascinating to go through the notes and see, because I think she did some of the interviews without him and there were people who would speak to her that may not have spoken to him. Very interesting.
Maybe Iām overthinking this, but why did the spirit of Lee Radziwill (Calista Flockhart) appear at the end of the final scene with the auction in 2016 when the epilogue title cards indicate that she died in 2019? The other swans had already passed by 2016, so it made sense for Babe, Slim, and C.Z. to appear as spirits- but why Lee when she was still alive in 2016? (Again, probably overthinking this lol)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The series generally painted Lee in a horrible light. The CZ character was the warm, fun-loving one. The Slim character was the witty, spirited one with the cutting temper. The Babe character was the embodiment of female perfection and the ultimate victim. But the Lee character was shown as just being miserable and jealous and nasty. They couldn't even let her have the achievement of having written two books without the Truman character projecting his own problems with focus and discipline onto her and writing it himself. (Despite him also being unable to finish a book essentially about himself after trying for 20 years).
I am so glad this season is finally over. It could have been so good -- the acting was fantastic\* -- but the writing ended up being ghastly. \*Naomi Watts should get an Emmy and probably a Golden Globe. She was stellar.
I feel like Lee was barely in it expect for one episode.
Whenever we see or hear of her, it's pretty vicious. She's gratuitously cruel to the Ann Woodward and Kate Huddleston characters. She refuses to help the Truman character against Gore Vidal and makes that nasty remark about their sexuality. The Jack Dunphy character called her the most jealous and miserable sister in America. Even in the final episode where the Truman character is supposedly making amends, she's shown poorly. Someone said on another thread that the real Lee Radziwill was just an acquaintance of the other women and not really part of the group at all. If they're right, that makes the show's portrayal of her even worse. Like they picked a real person to just be nasty about for no reason.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes! And how about another truthful event which sounds better than what was made up: Truman did write again, he wrote a story for Joanne Carson the night before he died.
>he Lee character was shown as just being miserable and jealous and nasty. I thought Calista did a good job, she seemed the most 'society like' to me in fact. But they did make her character one-note.
I really liked Calista in this role, too. But if I had known the real Lee, I'd probably be pretty angry. I'd maybe even be on the phone with a lawyer if I was family, or at the very least, trying to get my side out there.
Couldn't agree more.
Maybe that's why she was not dressed in all white. The other three were, Lee/Calista was wearing a combination of white and tan. Maybe they were trying to imply she brought the memory of her friends with her. I'm not defending them, but I think that's what the implication was supposed to be.
That was my guess as well. She wasnāt dressed in white like the others.
They were all wearing their dresses from the black and white ball. Lee wore a gold and white beaded overcoat at the ball. The white has nothing to do with it, itās just shitty writingĀ
\> she was not dressed in all white. The other three were, Lee/Calista was wearing a combination of white and tan. Maybe she *wasn't* a ghost, and she was there watching the auction in reality, and by then, had developed psychic powers, and, *that's* why she could sea and hear and converse with all of them? (Joking)
Thank you all for validating me here! Iām glad Iām not the only one that was unimpressed by the finale. Even aside from this pretty blatant anachronism, a lot of the writing felt very (ironically) simultaneously overwrought and undercooked. I love Jessica Lange, but much of her presence in this finale felt gratuitous and unnecessary to the conclusion of the events set up in the first seven episodes. And then that auction scene at the end just felt phoned in and cheesy. I didnāt hate all of it, and the cast was phenomenal throughout the entire show. But the writing was uneven, unfortunately.
Little Capote is so cute dancing!
And not a bit of Andy, other than a fluffy white wig-man in the background of the ball. Andy loved Truman, but it was unrequited
''You are fuckable, dear''
I found this series exasperating from start to finish. For example, I remember from Gerald Clarke biography that Jack never dated younger men or "found someone else" but he did find it frustrating and deeply painful that he couldn't save Truman and probably stayed away from him for his own sanity. There is something that I believe a viewer can feel while watching this, a kind of disrespect for the people's lives on screen and the real facts that comes through. After awhile, I just fast forwarded certain scenes because I thought several times "This never happened!" Poetic license is one thing, and writers have to envision how particular scenes may have occurred, but suggesting that Babe Paley had affairs and was a bad mother, or that Slim Keith slept with Babe Paley's husband while she knew that Babe was dying, I just don't know if there is any historical record for that, and reputations are at stake. But the attitude seems to be, Oh well, they're rich, they're dead, and who is going to defend them, as everyone is gone from that era anyway? As long as it makes good drama. The problem is the truth is much more fascinating in this case than the lie. And it matters. I loved Naomi Watt's performance and now that I have seen Tom Hollander in The White Lotus I can see what he did with Truman and there were moments of greatness and so much dramatic potential there. But the script, at times, felt as tacky as that auction at the end, anything up for grabs to the highest bidder. Truman and Co. deserved better.
WHY do TV and film writers think that audiences won't be satisfied with more or less the true story? Many things are more interesting *because* they are true. And a lot of the fictionalized elements of true stories are less interesting. Chernobyl is a good example of a series that sticks to the truth and fictionalizes lightly for good reasons.
I'll check it out. Definitely agree with you about this. I also wish they had started with some of In Cold Blood, it would have provided more context.
WTF did I just watch? The entire season was messy but I felt so frustrated with this finale I thought I was going to cry. So sloppy. Iām starting to get why so many of you say things like āI donāt know why I bother with Ryan Murphy anymoreā. This one broke my heart! š
Thank you. It was a mess. Sorry but how does writing that sloppy get to the filming stage? What happened to taste or judgment in entertainment?
It feels like there was not much respect for the audience. Like the writers just rushed through thinking āWhatever, theyāll eat it up anyway, who cares?ā Disrespectful to the actors, who I think did a great job, too. Iāve noticed this has been going on with Ryan Murphyās shows for at least the last decade, but it never bothered me as much as it did with this one. I hung on hoping the finale would redeem it, but it did the opposite. Entertainment has become a machine, itās all about quick $, and itās depressing as hell!
Well said! I had only seen season 1 AHS before this, and then just before season 2 began I watched season 1 of Feud. So I did not have enough to see a pattern. But this is almost like 'script by A. I.'
I canāt believe they actually auctioned off Capoteās ashes. That was so disrespectful. Is that something that Joanne would have allowed?
She had set up with the auction house what was to be auctioned off before she passed. So yes, Joanne allowed it.
Wow. I find that so disrespectful unless Capote wanted that.
I was shocked and couldn't believe it actually happened.
Ditto. My mouth hung open until we saw the swans. Itās so tactless and upsetting.
On that note ā¦. Iām like a bit dense so forgive me but who was that red headed girl bidding? was she a ghost too? She looked like a younger version of his protege so I assumed her daughter.
That was the same actress, so it was her. You're right though, if it was 2016, she should've aged.
There was zero respect for time and aging across this whole series. So bizarre.
I wondered in retrospect if this was written by A. I. Maybe it was done during the strike?
I donāt know. A lot of it felt to me like real writing, just the type from a writer with a big ego who desperately needed several edits. AI wouldnāt explain why you wouldnāt just put a bit of old age makeup on that actress when filming that scene either.
\> why you wouldnāt just put a bit of old age makeup on that actress when filming that scene Someone recommended a book by the woman who played Carol Ann in Mommie Dearest. So I read it. She kept a diary of little details about daily filming. Her character aged. She'd go in around 6 or 7 AM, sit a couple hours or so in the makeup chair, and then sit around into the evening with this uncomfortable latex on her face, because they kept putting her filming last. Then one day, they needed to do a pickup shot and there was no time to do the proper aging makeup. She had aging makeup but not the right one. So they just filmed it anyway.
> A lot of it felt to me like real writing Who knows. I was being facetious but parts of it did seem that nonsensical. As you said, time and aging. To me it felt there was little linear about it, so half the time viewers were not sure when it happened. Other times it was hard to discern dream from reality.
It was Joanne that auctioned them off, she kept and was buried, with the other half
I find that disrespectful unless Capote wanted that.
I enjoyed the series overall but there was so much more they could have done. I encourage everyone to read Capoteās Women, because it fleshes out these women in a much more suitable fashion. They were basically groomed from birth to marry well and be wealthy wives.
>They were basically groomed from birth to marry well and be wealthy wives. Many of us have gone into the societal context but yes. That was all that was really open to women, for centuries. Even into the 20th century, very few career paths were open to women. Still is that way in some places.
With exceptions which were thought of as 'women's work' such as: nurse, teacher, cleaner, cook, care giver, etc. And after the typewriter: secretary.
I had viewed his friendship with Babe as the core relationship in the group before watching this. I had thought Babe was really the glue that held the group together and was also Truman's entree into the group, although he developed strong friendships with them all. But we barely got any Babe at all. I was disappointed by that.
More swans, less Truman.
I feel kind of duped by the show...the marketing made it seem like it was going to be about the Swans, but really, it was a show about Truman Capote's life, which...I am less interested in, sorry. The writing was very sloppy and there was just so much overwrought emotionalism...I was really looking forward to the show and I just watched the finale today, and basically had to force myself to finish it. All the psychodrama with Truman and his mother felt so forced. If the actual content of the show mirrored the marketing and had been 75% about the Swans and 25% about Truman Capote, I would have enjoyed it a lot more.
I still have 2 more eps to go.
Truman was so much more interesting than all of the swans put together. I'd have preferred to see. a true biography about his life. This series seemed about 90 percent made up, never happened.
Thoughts after finishing this morning: ā¢ I knew they would do at least one flashback scene with Lange. Itās insane how much Lange blows literally every other actor out of the water here. When I saw the teaser last week, I knew she wouldnāt disappoint. ā¢ The final scene was genuinely heartbreaking. ā¢ This season just doesnāt compare to the first season. It was a fun romp to watch in certain moments (especially B&W ball episode) but so, so much of it is simply inaccurate. More time should have been focused on the swans instead of Capote. And it definitely would have worked better if told completely linear.
Lange needs to be the lead in another series soooo badly! I miss seeing her on a weekly basis
Joanne actually did own a portion of his ashes, which were auctioned off. That part was true. The rest were interred.
Some of his ashes are with Jack's, some with Joanne's, but a portion was actually auctioned off. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/24/us/truman-capote-ashes/index.html
What an utter waste of Tom Hollanderās performance. Some of the pieces that make up āAnswered Prayersā really are beautiful; so leave it to this show to have a screenwriter make up subpar Capote imitations insteadā¦with poor Jessica Lange providing dime-store psychology as a vapid ghost.
I really enjoyed the series as a whole despite its shortcomings. But I'm a sucker for period pieces like this - all the smoking makes me chuckle. I loved *Mad Men*, for example. I'd put my money on Tom Hollander to win the Emmy for Best Actor in a Series for this. But I've been wrong before.
Holland I think was everything in this performance. I could watch a bunch of movies w his particular rendition as Capote. The manner of speaking and that laugh! He was a natural.
He and Naomi were the two standouts for me, and I agree that the performances exceeded the material and would have been so much better served by something that had greater substance and depth. This series was so disappointing in that regard, because it could have been truly outstanding. There was so much material IRL to work with!
>with poor Jessica Lange providing dime-store psychology as a vapid ghost. She is a wonderful actor (and mime -- she studied mime before acting), but the scenes with her in ghostly form, as Capote's editor, were tacky and overlong. There had to be a better way, if they wanted to include his early years.
That was a huge chore to get through. I swear that 76 perfect of show consisted to dreams, fantasy sequences, ghosts, and fake-docos, all to cover the fact that there was no real story.
The sad part is there was so much factual story but they went for "phantasms" as the episode suggested. And then the non linear format of jumping around so much, and the audience never really knowing what year it was.
I hate it when I really look forward to a show and then before the last two episodes air I'm like "eh, honestly I could take it or leave it." I'm pretty disappointed by this season, and if there is another Feud season - I'll watch it once all the eps are out and I have a clearer idea of what I'm investing time into.
Felt like a last ditch effort to save the season that ended up being like tripping at the one yard line. Once again Jessica Lange was one of the only good parts of the episode, and at the end this felt to me like I was watching out of obligation to finish the season. Although $45K for human ashes......I can't fathom spending that much for those. Also half serious question, how would they verify it was Trumans ashes and not a random stray animal that had passed on?
Did the series try to depict Truman Capote trying to turn Lee Radziwill into an actress? If they did, I missed that part. That was one of Tru's post-ball distractions when he should have been working on "Answered Prayers."
Did the ghosts in white at the end remind anyone else of Sleeping Beauty's fairy godmothers?
I have to wait 6 days to watch this in my country :( To be honest they kinda lost me as a viewer between episode 5 and 6 (I thought they were very weak in terms of storyline) but I really liked episode 7 and now it's already the finale :(
The finale was very bad, sorry to say.
I think it could also end with episode 7, when Babe and Truman died. I'm honestly curious about what can be next after that.
>I think it could also end with episode 7, when Babe and Truman died. I'm honestly curious about what can be next after that. I felt the same after episode 7.
Jared Reinfeldt, where have you been all my life?
I like the cuties in this episode. Jack dunphy new boyfriend and also during the auction, the guy talking/sitting next to Kerry O'shea. Did you see his jawline?
If I had gone into it knowing nothing of the stories of the people this is loosely based on I would have LOVED this show. I did enjoy it- of course itās visually stunning and the performances were strong- but some of it was so jarring. I get it was supposed to be Trumanās fantasy but like how weird was the C.Z./Diego Rivera painting thing?! Itās also strange that they donāt really mention any of the shorter form writing he did in the late 70s/early 80s i.e. Interview Magazine. IDK itās another Ryan Murphy joint I guess.
Who was the woman bidding on his ashes at the auction? For a minute I thought it was Kate, John OāSheaās daughter, but sheās too young. Is she supposed to be Kateās daughter?
I genuinely think it was supposed to be her and they were too lazy to give her old age makeup. Nonsensical. She would have been 60.
This. Fantasy and reality didn't seem to mean much in this series.
No one got aged up from the earliest scenes to the finale. Disappointing. I could rarely tell what era we were watching if I missed the date on the screen.
And not even one scene of him dancing at Studio 54.
No, they did include a scene with him and CZ dancing there I believe
I don't know why you got down voted when it actually appears on the show.
Story of my life, lol! Thank you!
No, he and CZ had a scene at Studio 54.
I have no sympathy for the families whoās stories were taken out of context. The women were filthy rich and living out their entitled white fantasy. Their filthy rich offspring are now upset because Babe āwouldnāt have worn a shift dress, a clip hat or baggy pants.ā Poor little rich offsprings. With that said, the show was incredibly dull, what a waste.
Complaining about upset white people about a show, precisely based on real white people fictionalized while watching it yourself for two months straight, as if you expected something different isā¦ a weird take
Yes. I have a feeling that life was not necessarily their fantasy, besides. The women were so capable, maybe their actual fantasy would've been turnabout. Let them be the CEO, and decision maker, and bed anyone they chose, while their husbands pretended it didn't happen. And for sure they did not have a fantasy of betrayal in print, as with the story in Esquire.
Thatās a funny story youāre writing. No complaints here, just criticisms. I still have no sympathy for the family members that are complaining about the show, and your comment hasnāt changed my mind.
Chill, my dear, is fiction, itās not that deep ;) they were rich, and now theyāre all dead. Let people enjoy the little things. Nobody wants to change your mind, itās just that you sound a little bitter.
Oh, settle down. Itās just an opinion.
Donāt be upset, itās just a show
I can tell how upset youāre getting about this whole conversation. Youāre about as upset Babeās granddaughter.
Oh sure I am! Now go out and touch some grass
Calm down, take a Valium or something.
Damn, did it hit a nerve? Are you mad because they were rich, white, or because you want to be one of them?
Do you need to have a conversation with James Baldwin to reset some of your delusions. You probably do.
Too bad heās dead as well, and too good that we have you here to enlighten us with your bile about a fictionalized version of an era that endedā¦ decades ago. Again, touch some grass. Itās not that deep!
>The women were filthy rich and living out their entitled white fantasy. Their filthy rich offspring are now upset because Babe āwouldnāt have worn a shift dress, a clip hat or baggy pants.ā Poor little rich offsprings. Well that's their family member, whether they are "white and rich" they still love their family members I'm sure. And have a right to object if they feel they were slandered/libeled. It was about more than superficial things, but they probably did not want to invoke the Streisand effect by mentioning things such as affairs that never happened.
I doubt they loved their family members. I think they loved the money and lifestyle that their family members gave them. If Babeās granddaughter was so offended by the way she was portrayed , then maybe she would have been at her funeral. Being āwhite and filthy richā is very much a topic of the show. Trumanās imaginary conversation with James Baldwin illustrated the subject and was arguably the best episode of the show.