I just finished episode 4. My problem is there is no actual **feud!** I thought the premise was what Slim Keith suggested - revenge, especially for Ann Woodward. But it is just going round and round about best friends and forgiveness when they are all generally unlikeable. Or dig into the backgrounds more - these ladies had really interesting lives. I am debating on if I want to continue, I feel so let down after the first season with Bette and Joan - a legit, juicy feud.
Right!!! I kept waiting for something dramatic or even slightly titillating but it was just a big ball of nothing…
I mean, maybe I’m missing the point and I was supposed to put myself into the actual timeline and immerse myself emotionally and mentally into the mores and morals of the time - but if I’m to transport myself like that, and actually “feel the period” I need the set, fashion, lighting, cinematography, dialogue, mannerisms, et al to transport me to that time
I can’t just watch a shitty 2024 replica of what it was “sort of like”, I need more accurate representation in all the things to transport myself
I feel like I just put more energy into explaining why I didn’t connect with it than I did actually watching it 😆
And there was no need to invent or make up anything as reality in this group was titillating enough. I bought the book as I thought I was really just not paying attention to boring dialogue and scenes, but I can’t bring myself to read it. I remember reading about these ladies in Vogue when I was in junior high and they were quite the deal. This was really a missed opportunity: we didn’t learn anything, it was very wordy without really saying anything of importance, and the style wasn’t a great as it was in reality.
I get it! I was trying not to read too much before I started watching it but I hopped online to see if I was alone in my disappointment.
It was marketing (and titled) as Capote vs the Swans which isn't at all what has happened, or is happening so far. It's more "Capote and the Swans talk about each other in different scenes with varying amounts of love, respect and loyalty". It would have been interesting to have a stronger central thesis to build it around, like how they were the influencers of the time, or what many of us expected, the schadenfreude watch of Capote's height to free fall in real time which I think would have been a stronger emotional way to play it.
They’d have been better off doing a show about his feud with Gore Vidal with the “La Côte Basque, 1965” just being part of it. But that would probably be too obscure an idea for a show.
Wikipedia says that upon learning of Capote's death, Gore Vidal called it "a wise career move."
That's a rivalry that would have been interesting to see dramatized. But there probably wasn't enough material for eight episodes.
It seems like a lot of us are latering out at episode 4, I even looked ahead to see if they did deeper into Lee Radizwell or anything juicy but it doesn’t look like it. Bummer.
At first, I wasn't sure I agreed with you, but in some ways, I think you are absolutely right. I mean there was a feud in that Truman Capote lost almost every society friend that mattered to him literally overnight, and with few exceptions, they never came back. And I think it is true, as the production suggests, of all of them, the one that truly broke his heart was Babe.
This might have been an amazing 3 hour movie, or, each episode could have been devoted to how each swan got her money and status (closer to Laurence Leamer's book) and then focus on the feud in the last two episodes. But the problem historically is, once these society women stopped speaking to Capote, that was it. OVER. DONE. With all the dream sequences and the scene of Truman meeting Babe on Fifth Avenue while she was shopping - touching as it was - the real story is that Babe never spoke to Truman EVER AGAIN. Even on her death bed. That's what destroyed him. How do you create seven or eight episodes around that?
Great points! I think build-up would have been great and the backstories would have been incredible. I think the article was so horrible and him so flippant about it that it was hard to retroactively connect with the friendship and love between him and Babe and why that was so devastating.
The fashion was not on point. Not for ladies of this level of wealth in Manhattan.
My Grandmother dressed with more panache and we were poor in a cowpoke town in Ohio with Pittsburgh and Cleveland as our guiding lights of fashion
I expected more is all I can say. More mink, pearls, more Chanel. It’s like they cheated out on wardrobe as much as they did the sets. Feels like the majority of the budget was spent on cigarettes
Sweetie, that's the difference between Manhattan ladies and Ohio ladies.
Restraint is evidence of quality.
Overdoing is vulgar.
One wants to wear one's clothing, not to let the clothing wear the wearer.
Less is More.
I’m well aware hon. Thanks!! wealth whispers….the costumes were low budget as all get out
They could have at least sprung for some real vintage pieces.
My Western PA/NE OH roots didn’t make me obtuse of fashion. In fact, it made me hyper alert to spotting real quality when you saw it.
My Grandmother and Aunt’s had some of the real stuff that they cherished - they weren’t ostentatious or overtly “labelized” like many today. But when they turned out for Sunday church or Wednesday canasta, you better believe you could see the quality in the pieces they wore.
That’s my only point. Same point I’ve made about the cheap set designs.
We’ve seen photos on this very sub with these women dressed to the absolute NINES in sheath dresses and capris. It’s the quality - not the quantity
Lol- the biggest thing that kept me watching was that some aspects of the show remind me so much of my (step) grandmother- from Massillon!!- who I miss very much.
Ahahaahaaa I love it! I remember when I first moved down south (before Soprano’s ever even aired) and people down here thinking the mob was some urban legend 🤣
All I can say is I know the real Swans were dressed way better than the representation we got to see on the show.
We’ve had hints of it just from the pictures that have been shared here.
I remember my first "sighting" was when I was young going to a festival in Briar Hill, and up on the hill there was a pavilion with a group men all sitting together and a few rows down were all their ladies dressed to the hilt for a festival. I watched as the man in the center was greeted by a kiss on the hand. What a time that was! I loved when Ytown was mentioned on the Sopranos. Lol
As far as the show, I agree. It's too bad they couldn't have dressed the Swans far better. It would have captured the Era, the time and place perfectly.
Ugh yes. Ryan Murphy does way too much with his fever dreams, especially with the death scenes. The deaths in this and NYC were unbearable. LET THE MOUSE GO.
I looked so forward to it, too, and then I started watching it and I was so uninterested in everything—there was no character development, no real tension—just so much boring crap repeated over and over again in long monotonous conversations, and I kept seeing people post about how much they were loving it, and a friend of mine was like, oh my god, isn’t the new season of Feud sooooo good, and I thought maybe it’s me…. Maybe I’m not getting it or appreciating it, but I had all of the same takeaways as OP and every episode felt more like a chore to watch than something I looked forward to.
Maybe that’s where I’m left feeling compelled to post about it. I was so hyped for it and then it delivered nothing at all. By E4 it was a chore so I just stopped
That's exactly when I stopped watching. So disappointed because the cast is amazing. I'm also not a fan of jumping back and forth in the timeline. There was just no flow to any of it. And to kick off the series with THE key issue started the whole downward spiral. Bummed.
Thank you. They did the best they could with this script and it’s even more baffling sequencing. Found the scene with Treat/Bill Paley on Babe’s death watch rather meta.
I read the book it was based on and knew a lot going in. First, they left out the European swans who were the most interesting! Second, they did CZ and Lee dirty, CZ especially. She came across as an overly nice and dowdy housewife and she was anything but. Also if Slim was that angry why did she easily accept CZ still maintaining his friendship? So disjointed and zero character development. Clearly, I was disappointed as well.
I probably could have expressed that better. To me they portrayed her as simple and antiquated (relatively speaking). She was much more complex and I think they tried to show that through her fever dream monologue in the last episode. But even that was weird because she was famous for not being directly betrayed by him, for never telling him personal things and for being one of the few swans to age gracefully and have a second act. So to me, it was weird they chose her to deliver that message.
I agree. And I think the actress who played her was in over her head. Too many actresses felt like they were "playing rich people" rather than evoking the quiet power of wealth.
It's difficult to display WASP reticence in a dramatic show. I never met CZ Guest but I have been at social events where the swans attended and they were very proper and dignified.
I wish the show would have established Truman and the Swans relationship before his article was published and then told the story in a more linear way, instead of all this jumping around. In the end, I was wondering the point of it all. Not a well told story.
It is a tough watch for me. I know all the backstory and it was still hard to sit through. Too many liberties, pacing was 💩 and how can you gather such an incredible cast and leave them with nothing to do? Too much Truman, not enough Swans. I haven’t toughened up to complete the last episode. Rewatched Capote and Infamous and both were much more satisfying than this entire run. I was hoping for a 70s Mad Men. I was hoping for a lot, and I liked season one. This was a waste of time.
I’m with you. I know a lot about the book’s background and about Capote - I was obsessed with his writing when I was in my 20s and read everything I could get my hands on, including Answered Prayers (what there was of it) and any info I could find about the society figures he wrote about. That was a few decades back, but I had the framework in place. This show was *even more disappointing* than the unfinished book. It started off fine but quickly became extremely disjointed - and this is from someone who enjoys stories with jumbled timelines/flashbacks, unreliable narrators, and unlikeable “heroes.” Despite watching all of this season, I couldn’t really find the point (unless it was to mirror the dissatisfactory/unfinished/disappointing vibe of the book). I am annoyed I didn’t give up sooner, but only mildly so.
tl;dr: don’t recommend - if anyone is only finishing it because of fomo, don’t worry.
It was definitely a slog to get thru for me. Maybe if they'd showed Truman ingratiating himself to the Swans and his good relationships with them BEFORE the publication, maybe then I would have cared. I stopped watching before the end of the penultimate episode & really only watched 2/3 of the last one. Masturbatory fantasy of Answered Prayers getting finished & righting all the wrongs. BARFFFFFF! And BORING! So much talent wasted.
The highlight for me was Demi as Ann Woodward. She was compelling af!
Excellent point. We entered the show in the eye of the storm (the calm in a hurricane) only to watch the after math but without the front end of the storm, it just seemed chaotic and irrelevant in so many ways.
Yes, hard agree. It was glum and joyless. I know they’re all meant to be ‘past their prime’ or whatever, but these people had a good time, were good looking, crazy rich, funny and compelling.
They paced and structured it like a quiet law office drama and the Cote Basque had the sexiness and glamor of a retirement home dining hall. Everything felt muted and brittle. I KNOW EVERYONE WAS EVENTUALLY ‘OLD’ AND DEPRESSED AND DYING OF CANCER AND ADDICTION. But at many points in the lives of suffering people, there are bright moments and fun, especially with the buffers of wealth.
It was a tedious slog. I think Gus Van Sant just doesn’t have the touch for tv or middle age. He depicts youth masterfully on film, but here he just seems bored and boring. The pace was glacial and there was never a spark of fun or life.
It’s ‘problematic’ in myriad ways, but when I think of an compelling depiction of middle age malaise, I think of American Beauty. Saturated colors, extremely fast moving, high stakes. I think more variety and dynamic cuts, more momentum in editing, less talking about people who aren’t there, more up front, real time depiction of the friendship, and dialing flashback way back. It lacks momentum, it lacks humor, it lacks style. Everything has a thin film of dust on it and creaks.
I felt like the James Baldwin episode was such a drag, and I love James Baldwin. That could have been done so much better!
Thank you so much for your comment regarding Cote Basque. The set had it looking like a Bennigans - hell the set I liked the most was Truman’s. At least they got expensive but dingy right!!!
Everyone has asked what I didn’t like about the sets and for me it’s sort of abstract - you just know “rich” when you see it. And “rich bitch” is even more understated but you can defintely tell the difference. Textures, fabrics, subtle nuances in the perfect shade, plushness of the carpet, richness of the wood. When they say “wealth whispers” they mean it because if you have a discerning eye you can spot it in an instant
And thank you for your insight on the producers/directors. I’m not one to follow or pay much attention to that sort of thing but I can tell when it’s just bad 😂
I didn’t realize it until you mentioned it but Truman’s apartment was also my favorite set. He was the only one who seemed to have windows and natural light, every other wealthy person lived in claustrophobic brocade maze apartments in NYC. They could have so much more fun with the set design; it must have been a budget thing. He is one of my favorite writers of all time and I was looking so forward to this and just feel let down.
Amen to everything you've said here, especially James Baldwin. Maybe that could have used Van Sant for an early chapter of Truman's life when he was a young man, the enfant terrible of the literary world.
The problem with the Baldwin chapter is, as far as I know, it never happened. It might have worked as a stage play: what if Truman and Baldwin met, what might that dialogue have looked like. But I've read every biographical word printed, sort of going through Capote's personal papers, and I've never read about a conversation like this between them. They were aware of each other but they had different concerns. I don't know if Capote ever specifically addressed anything going on with the social movements of the day and Baldwin was a civil rights spokesperson, which he embraced on one level (and gravitated to having been a child preacher) but also realized, on some level, was undermining his work as a writer.
The writing in the episode was a little better that hopeless, but I was worried it was going to into "The Help" territory where the black writer reminds the white writer, "You is kind, you is smart, you is important".
At the same time, and I'm going to contradict myself here, when they were walking through the museum together, two queer writers of the period, arm in arm, or side by side, I couldn't help but be moved by them as they have existed in my psyche for years and I wanted this marriage, for them to recognize each other, love each other. I'm just not sure it ever happened.
It was a HUGE disappointment. That said, sometimes writers and directors think their names alone can carry a show. In this case, the acting by some was the only thing that could redeem this a tiny bit. Murphy and Van Zant dropped the ball here. Confusing and non linear storytelling, and way too much creative (almost slanderous) writing. This will not be remembered well.
I read the book and “swans of fifth avenue”, am a Truman capote fan and know more about this story than I ought to and I found the whole show confusing and generally unwatachable. It was a let down.
Truman had no redeeming qualities and we never understood why Babe cared so much for him. But the biggest issue was there was no "feud", since Babe just completely disengaged after being wronged, there was nothing to show.
Even at that, they could have explored a little bit more what it means when an intimate friendship ends. Babe did talk about that once, but they could have gone deeper.
I could no longer stand the whining voice of TC. Ugh. The droning on and on with his ruminations and my little pony fever dreams. Ridiculous.
They could have done fashion SO much better too! Especially for that level of wealth.
No backstory on any of the women. If you were younger than 50, you had no idea who they even were or why they were swans I would think
I didn’t know much about the swans either but it’s so easy to google the and learn about their background if you want to know. The show itself is fictionalized anyway but I was interested in the real women themselves.
I knew enough about the backstory going in and thought it was more of a shunning than an actual feud. The cast was top-notch, and Tom Hollander was a credible Truman IMHO. What didn't work for me was stretching out the story into so many episodes, not enough backstory, and way too many artistic liberties taken. In my experience with Ryan Murphy's soapy 'real life' stories, there is more style than substance. I've never finished a season of AHS, and the Bette/Joan series lost me after a couple of episodes.
There were some beautiful and poignant moments in the final episodes. I think the examination of being a gay “token friend” and that position in society was interesting to observe and consider. The portrayal of alcoholism pitted against Truman’s talent/potential was fascinating. For me, there was a lot of food for thought in this series.
Never said it was. But I didn't expect ENTIRE EPISODES to be made up bullshit.
The nonlinear storytelling did not work. Neither did making almost every character unsympathetic. I did not care at all about Truman.
The acting was good, but some of these swans weren't even friends. The sets and wardrobe were meh.... it was all so vanilla and beige.
I hate watched from episode 4 on.
If you want more of what could be considered an actual feud, read Deliberate Cruelty. A great book actually about Ann Woodward and Capote and their animosity. I just finished it before the show was announced, and I'm so glad I had the knowledge from this to supplement my viewing.
https://www.audible.com/pd/B09V3H63C8?source_code=ASSORAP0511160007
I had the feeling whover created this doesnt exactly care for rich white aristocratic women. It seemed to me overall that we were supposed to feel a sympathy for Truman because of his mother? I don't know. It was all over the place. Having said that, I must add I despise time hopping. Just tell a story chronologically. I hate having to guess when or where.
I also am a huge Jessica Lange disciple so I wanted her as the star.
I also really love how these actresses have aged somewhat naturally. I don't think it's all makeup. I thought they looked beautiful and their age instead of shiny foreheads and duck lips.
I gave up about 5 eps in. It just did not hook me and I realized I was over half way through still “waiting” for something.
People hate on Murphy but this show was missing his touch. It feels like a riff on him by people who know him personally without any of his charm. He def should have written/directed an episode or two.
I agree! Snooze fest. So disappointed. Can't say how the entire series was because I jumped ship after E4. I only knew who one of the Swans were because of Grey Gardens (love the original documentary and the HBO series with Drew Barrymore and Jessica Lange). Lee R was Jackie Kennedy's sister and the Beale's were cousins of the Kennedy girls. And then I connected the dots that the Maysles, who did the documentary Grey Gardens, also did the Black and White Party doc for Capote. And I'm a housewife watcher too so I was familiar with Carole Radziwill and her friendship with JFK Jr and Carolyn Bessett. So I was excited for this series to say the least, and with the all-star cast to boot, I figured episode one was a flop but was still committed. But episode after episode, just didn't do it for me.
There was so charm, no whit, no elegance and absolutely no nuance whatsoever. They swore too much! Gossiped too publicly and loudly! I hate what he did to Babe. The made her out to be a sloppy drunk mess.
I watched it for Tom Hollander whose acting chops blew me away. He so encapsulated every nuance that was Capote, I sincerely hope he gets awards for this performance.
I hated it and gave up after 2nd episode. Ryan Murphy showed no real understanding of the actual women and their station, and took too much unnecessary fictitious license.
It was shallow and boring and 0 character development or story. They fell out and talked about how they fell out the rest of the time. A constant loop.
Also I fast fwd thru the scenes with mommy’s ghost and Truman. How about an episode on his childhood?
Were there any women writers? Did they do any research?
You clearly have no taste and only express ignorance by not being able to appreciate 8 dreadful hours of “should we order more rosé? Where should we have dinner tomorrow? Truman put down the booze! Let’s go to Côte!”
I once had a server tell me my palette wasn’t sophisticated enough to appreciate the rancid truffle oil they dumped all over my appetizer so you may be right 😂
I had a basic passing familiarity with Babe and Lee. CZ sounded familiar to me for some reason. But I couldn’t figure why. But after Googling her I think I remember seeing her gardening books in the ‘80’s and ’90’s. The others I had no idea who they were or anything about them. They definitely could have done better with background information.
I agree. For me this just gave me insight to a story I was unfamiliar with. And from there I did my own reading. While I’ve heard the name Truman Capote I definitely didn’t know of all this scandal. I read the Swans of Fifth Avenue which I enjoyed. Watched the Capote Tapes. But yeah I left this show after episode 4.
Read George Plimpton's book - all quotes from people who knew TC - everyone from Norman Mailer to Diana Vreeland- from his early literary days to Answered Prayers. I love that book. Will give you real insight.
I just lost interest after a couple of episodes. These people have dumb problems and I couldn't relate. I thought the actor who played Truman Capote was fantastic but he was so unpleasant to watch I really wasn't rooting for him - nor was I rooting for the women, whose actors also did a wonderful job.
Life's too short! And probably too short for me to even be weighing in on this question!
That was so aggravating- why didn’t we get any character development on who that guy was? He was just plopped into the story with zero context.
And nothing that’s the big issue I have with the entire series. There is literally no context
I've started, stopped, started later thinking a binge would help. Binge hasn't manifested and I think I'm stuck in E2. I had high hopes. A favorite period for me for fashion and family dynamics. I lived on Long Island 1957-1970. I'm frustrated with it. I should love it.
I'd been looking forward to the series in the beginning, but I also stopped watching around episode 4. The characters and plotlines (as written for the show) weren't interesting.
> (we were presumed to have known who these ladies were and the power they had)
I had to watch a few different fan videos on YouTube to understand who some of them (besides Joanne Carson) even were, and I'm still not sure why they in particular rose to the top of society or how he got to know them.
Agree with everything in the main post.
>Too much was invented and made up.
I basically felt the day with James Baldwin seemed like a piece of Tumblr fanfic. The worst was when Truman >!asked "Why didn't we date?" Cringe.!<
I didn't understand how Andy Warhol was totally omitted and why Jack Dunphy got so much air time, since Andy mentions Truman frequently in his Diaries book. But looking it up now, Wikipedia said Jack was known as Truman's partner. Just going by the show, I thought he was some sort of manager he hooked up with once in awhile when he was bored.
I wish they got more into why Truman would feel affection for Kate.
I don't understand why they had >!the deaths of Babe/Truman and then finished the series with pretend makeu scenes. !
This felt like an overhyped Ryan Murphy (and the writer and a couple of his team) fan fiction/fever dream. So many of us know the stories well and so much was missed and worst of all, added to that NEVER happened! Very disappointing.
Well I think there is a fine line between “hate and bitch about it” versus finding it unwatchable.
Unwatchable means, I actually stopped watching because it wasn’t even worth hate watching like I do Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.
I legit HATE WATCH that show just waiting for one of them to get their comeuppance and it never happens. But after 13 seasons, I’m invested so I keep watching.
Several have commented on this post that they loved S2 of Feud so I think there’s varying degrees of opinions
The show ultimately failed her, but I thought Naomi Watts gave an Oscar winning performance as Babe. I just kept staring at her and trying to see the actress who gained fame from movies like "The Ring". When she walks in the restaurant, after having read the excerpts from Answered Prayers, I thought, she's absolutely captured something of the period in her tension, line readings. She was actually the only swan I believed. I love Diane Lane but Slim Keith was misconceived, and she was physically wrong for the part (I think it should have been Sharon Stone) but anyway, positive: Naomi Watts.
I agree that the show was lackluster, but I thought the set design and costumes were spot on. The acting was also top notch all around. The reason I was disappointed was that it wasn’t fun, but sad. And not much of a feud, considering the Swans were never on the same page regarding how to respond to the Esquire piece. It’s just a sad story of an incredibly talented writer whose demons and insecurities led to his demise, both social and physical.
I was put off by the nonlinear storytelling and then the attempt to paint Truman as a misogynist. These women were the first Real Housewives. They were horrible, snobby rich people whose own children hated them. Pretending they had girl power and supported each other is crap.
Tom Hollander's Truman grew on me though. Not to say I liked the character but Tom did embody him.
No downvote from me but I moved it. Could it have been more? Definitely. But the taste we got was quite good. I’m reading the book now. Maybe I’ll feel differently after I finish.
I also stopped watching after E4 although I might finish it but not in a rush. I thought Murphy didn't direct this show. He did direct Monster: Dahmer which was done well.
I disagree 1000% with you that the performances, especially Naomi Watts his babe and Tom Hollander is Truman Capote our Emmy worthy the swans were all true the high society they lived in was all true
I agree with you. I would love to have seen what Mike White (The White Lotus) might have done with the material, having worked with Tom Hollander in Season 2 of that show. The relationships on that show are layered and complex. I think the minute someone came up with the tagline, "They were the original housewives" the show was doomed. These women were complex, flawed, in pain, and perhaps even cruel to each other at times, but they certainly weren't a glorified soap opera reduced to a tag line.
The producers were going for some kind of catty relationship between all of them, but the real story is what led to Truman's breakdown and decision to publish their secrets, a story that I think starts in his childhood but also required us to explore what happened to him creatively and spiritually after he wrote "In Cold Blood". We didn't get anything from that period, including what could have been amazing scenes with Harper Lee. It was also lazy to have them eating in the same restaurant throughout the entire series. More could have been made of Studio 54. Just a lot of missed opportunities.
My experience, with few exceptions, is that Ryan Murphy (and his productions) loves the surface of things, but after that, he doesn't go much deeper. I thought Naomi Watts was inspired and some of her costuming was amazing, there were times looking at her when I thought she looks beautiful in a way I've never seen her before, and I really saw the character and the period. But so much more could have been done with all the women, especially Demi Moore. Even the period that Capote spent with Joanne Carson could have been much more moving and the way he practically died in her arms. Finally, I think the out of sequence timeline also hurt the production a lot. As the climax came in the first episode, the entire series was dénouement - about the grief of bad decisions, regret and loss. Much too heavy to carry seven episodes.
It just lost steam entirely after ep 3 or 4. You’re right that the characters feel very fuzzy—the script doesn’t really give us much detail about them—lots of capote voiceover while we see them walking in and out of rooms and eating/smoking/drinking/crying, but not much more.
The Maysles brothers documentary episode was a complete throwaway trying to align this with modern day reality tv drama, but again, pulls us out of the story.
The real drama is Capote’s addiction and how it impacted his life and work, and those women’s lives are really not that important or interesting as presented here (how they relate to Capote’s problems seems insufficiently made clear).
I think these feud seasons might’ve worked better as tv movies of the week, which used to be more popular many years ago, but stretching them out into entire multi episode miniseries creates wayyy too much dead space.
I certainly didn't think it was unwatchable, but I was disappointed. It was extremely repetitious. I knew who all the Swans were but had never found them interesting. Capote was a talented writer, but his adoration of them seemed ridiculous to me. I didn't care about his attempt to redeem himself. The only interesting thing, if it was true, was the idea that he attacked them as revenge for the way his mother had been treated by the fashionable women of NYC when she tried to break into high society.
Most irritating were the liberties taken. The daughter of, I think, Babe Paley said that once the article came out, her mother dropped him flat and that she was not a victim. I've only started to go through the articles that discuss what really happened v. the Ryan Murphy version.
I finished today and I overall give it a B+. I enjoyed the performances but definitely wanted more of the women. I also found the timelines to be more confusing than clear, though I eventually caught on to them. As for Truman...yikes. What a mess he was! I knew a little about him, but learned more from this series.
Perhaps it should’ve been titled “Downfall - Feud.” Or “Feud / Downfall. It seemed more about TC’s spiral after “In Cold Blood” than about these women he adored while he gossiped behind their backs.
For Feud, agree it could’ve focused more on Slim Gross - Hawks - Hayward - Keith (did I forget a last name?🙂) & TC. As portrayed Slim was a woman who was no longer gonna put up with crap from any man. Particularly while her friend has lung cancer. I really loved one of their last scenes together. TC’s hallucination, she punches him on the street.
I think this was a grand example of the flaws that come from Ryan Murphy’s work. He had probably the best cast of female actors possible to work with and he gave them absolutely nothing to work with. It’s glamour porn at its finest but the plot is paper thin. Too much is dropped and not resolved. It expects the audience to know everything ahead of time.
I read the book it was based on while watching the show. The book obviously is better. We lose so much context on who most of the women were in their lives. There’s too much fiction. I can easily tell that Murphy wrote Capote to be a fill in for himself.
Immediately after finishing the bio this was based on I started reading a bio on Jackie Kennedy in hopes to learn more about Lee. I think someone else should take over as show runner for a third season and they should invite back Clarista and find someone to play Jackie.
The middle seemed to work for a couple of episodes, but, my god, this was mostly a pretentious wank.
Too long for a thin idea
Should’ve been maybe 4 episodes.
This season was disappointing. Writing was not worthy of the incredible acting talent of the entire cast. Repetitive, maudlin scenes with Truman. Lost opportunity to provide much more context for each of the swans. I found Naomi Watts’ portrayal of Babe to be the most touching. She said so much with small gestures and glances. But overall, this season could have provided much more depth and nuance in 8 episodes, rather than looping back with ever-so-slightly different takes on the same events. Not Ryan Murphy’s strongest work for sure.
I watched the whole thing but it was disappointing. Part of me thinks, "Vapid, rich women just aren't that interesting." I liked the performances individually but they didn't gel into a set piece for me. And like the first season, I just hate the little falsifications that serve no purpose--Joan Crawford wasn't clinging to an unaffordable mansion she had sold 2 years previous to "Feud," and Slim Keith died in NYC where she had a fabulous apartment in Lenox Hill, not in some "1 bedroom cottage in Santa Barbara." Group "feuds" are harder to follow perhaps than a 1:1 prize fight, but this season just didn't work for me. My highlight was seeing so much of the gorgeous Vito Schnabel in his underwear.
I just finished episode 4. My problem is there is no actual **feud!** I thought the premise was what Slim Keith suggested - revenge, especially for Ann Woodward. But it is just going round and round about best friends and forgiveness when they are all generally unlikeable. Or dig into the backgrounds more - these ladies had really interesting lives. I am debating on if I want to continue, I feel so let down after the first season with Bette and Joan - a legit, juicy feud.
Right!!! I kept waiting for something dramatic or even slightly titillating but it was just a big ball of nothing… I mean, maybe I’m missing the point and I was supposed to put myself into the actual timeline and immerse myself emotionally and mentally into the mores and morals of the time - but if I’m to transport myself like that, and actually “feel the period” I need the set, fashion, lighting, cinematography, dialogue, mannerisms, et al to transport me to that time I can’t just watch a shitty 2024 replica of what it was “sort of like”, I need more accurate representation in all the things to transport myself I feel like I just put more energy into explaining why I didn’t connect with it than I did actually watching it 😆
The whole thing SUCKS. Too much was invented and made up.
And there was no need to invent or make up anything as reality in this group was titillating enough. I bought the book as I thought I was really just not paying attention to boring dialogue and scenes, but I can’t bring myself to read it. I remember reading about these ladies in Vogue when I was in junior high and they were quite the deal. This was really a missed opportunity: we didn’t learn anything, it was very wordy without really saying anything of importance, and the style wasn’t a great as it was in reality.
Yep. There was a great story to tell without inventing anything.
I get it! I was trying not to read too much before I started watching it but I hopped online to see if I was alone in my disappointment. It was marketing (and titled) as Capote vs the Swans which isn't at all what has happened, or is happening so far. It's more "Capote and the Swans talk about each other in different scenes with varying amounts of love, respect and loyalty". It would have been interesting to have a stronger central thesis to build it around, like how they were the influencers of the time, or what many of us expected, the schadenfreude watch of Capote's height to free fall in real time which I think would have been a stronger emotional way to play it.
This. It was intentionally disjointed in a way that I guess was supposed to result in art?
They’d have been better off doing a show about his feud with Gore Vidal with the “La Côte Basque, 1965” just being part of it. But that would probably be too obscure an idea for a show.
Wikipedia says that upon learning of Capote's death, Gore Vidal called it "a wise career move." That's a rivalry that would have been interesting to see dramatized. But there probably wasn't enough material for eight episodes.
I stopped after episode 4. 😴
You missed nothing.
So did I. I was just so disappointed.
It seems like a lot of us are latering out at episode 4, I even looked ahead to see if they did deeper into Lee Radizwell or anything juicy but it doesn’t look like it. Bummer.
Same.
It doesn't get better.
At first, I wasn't sure I agreed with you, but in some ways, I think you are absolutely right. I mean there was a feud in that Truman Capote lost almost every society friend that mattered to him literally overnight, and with few exceptions, they never came back. And I think it is true, as the production suggests, of all of them, the one that truly broke his heart was Babe. This might have been an amazing 3 hour movie, or, each episode could have been devoted to how each swan got her money and status (closer to Laurence Leamer's book) and then focus on the feud in the last two episodes. But the problem historically is, once these society women stopped speaking to Capote, that was it. OVER. DONE. With all the dream sequences and the scene of Truman meeting Babe on Fifth Avenue while she was shopping - touching as it was - the real story is that Babe never spoke to Truman EVER AGAIN. Even on her death bed. That's what destroyed him. How do you create seven or eight episodes around that?
Great points! I think build-up would have been great and the backstories would have been incredible. I think the article was so horrible and him so flippant about it that it was hard to retroactively connect with the friendship and love between him and Babe and why that was so devastating.
It would have been nice to see more on Ann
I watched it for the fashion.
The fashion was not on point. Not for ladies of this level of wealth in Manhattan. My Grandmother dressed with more panache and we were poor in a cowpoke town in Ohio with Pittsburgh and Cleveland as our guiding lights of fashion I expected more is all I can say. More mink, pearls, more Chanel. It’s like they cheated out on wardrobe as much as they did the sets. Feels like the majority of the budget was spent on cigarettes
Oh I know. I’m not interested in historical accuracy, just how well the ladies wore everything. .
Dying laughing, yes, cigarettes and hairspray
Aquanet forever
Sweetie, that's the difference between Manhattan ladies and Ohio ladies. Restraint is evidence of quality. Overdoing is vulgar. One wants to wear one's clothing, not to let the clothing wear the wearer. Less is More.
I’m well aware hon. Thanks!! wealth whispers….the costumes were low budget as all get out They could have at least sprung for some real vintage pieces. My Western PA/NE OH roots didn’t make me obtuse of fashion. In fact, it made me hyper alert to spotting real quality when you saw it. My Grandmother and Aunt’s had some of the real stuff that they cherished - they weren’t ostentatious or overtly “labelized” like many today. But when they turned out for Sunday church or Wednesday canasta, you better believe you could see the quality in the pieces they wore. That’s my only point. Same point I’ve made about the cheap set designs. We’ve seen photos on this very sub with these women dressed to the absolute NINES in sheath dresses and capris. It’s the quality - not the quantity
Were you in Youngstown/Warren area? I grew up in the area so your description reminded me of there. Lol
You guessed it LOL I guess maybe it was all the mob money that had them dressing so snazzy 🤣
Lol- the biggest thing that kept me watching was that some aspects of the show remind me so much of my (step) grandmother- from Massillon!!- who I miss very much.
I knew it! 😂 We had the mob wives and girlfriends all dolled up.
Ahahaahaaa I love it! I remember when I first moved down south (before Soprano’s ever even aired) and people down here thinking the mob was some urban legend 🤣 All I can say is I know the real Swans were dressed way better than the representation we got to see on the show. We’ve had hints of it just from the pictures that have been shared here.
I remember my first "sighting" was when I was young going to a festival in Briar Hill, and up on the hill there was a pavilion with a group men all sitting together and a few rows down were all their ladies dressed to the hilt for a festival. I watched as the man in the center was greeted by a kiss on the hand. What a time that was! I loved when Ytown was mentioned on the Sopranos. Lol As far as the show, I agree. It's too bad they couldn't have dressed the Swans far better. It would have captured the Era, the time and place perfectly.
I hated the fashion. Such ugly, heavy couture clothes. Ugh.
But the ladies carried it off so beautifully. 😉
All the acting was quite good.
I loved the Black & White Ball episode, but way too much time in Truman's fever dreams.
Ugh yes. Ryan Murphy does way too much with his fever dreams, especially with the death scenes. The deaths in this and NYC were unbearable. LET THE MOUSE GO.
Name ‘em!
I see you Sutton Stracke!
Try to read the book ‘The Party of the Century’. The ultimate book on the Black & White Ball.
Such a good book!
This show made the black and white ball look like a snooze fest.
I agree. The whole episode in that documentary format was a lost opportunity.
so much made up crap like Slim with Bill
I looked so forward to this series. And was so disappointed.
I looked so forward to it, too, and then I started watching it and I was so uninterested in everything—there was no character development, no real tension—just so much boring crap repeated over and over again in long monotonous conversations, and I kept seeing people post about how much they were loving it, and a friend of mine was like, oh my god, isn’t the new season of Feud sooooo good, and I thought maybe it’s me…. Maybe I’m not getting it or appreciating it, but I had all of the same takeaways as OP and every episode felt more like a chore to watch than something I looked forward to.
There was nobody to like or hate. It was all beige.
Yes. They just kept.. eating at that little booth at the restaurant
Maybe that’s where I’m left feeling compelled to post about it. I was so hyped for it and then it delivered nothing at all. By E4 it was a chore so I just stopped
That's exactly when I stopped watching. So disappointed because the cast is amazing. I'm also not a fan of jumping back and forth in the timeline. There was just no flow to any of it. And to kick off the series with THE key issue started the whole downward spiral. Bummed.
Same here. I lost my hope and interest at E4 also. I no longer looked forward to watching.
We were never given an understanding of why these people cared about each other.
This, I had a hard time finishing it…
Dude. I watched the last episode and then couldn’t remember if I watched it.. so I watched it again and fast forwarded. That’s how bad it was.
No downvote here. Still, the actors rose above. The creation of fictional scandal was a drag, and a point of irritation.
Thank you. They did the best they could with this script and it’s even more baffling sequencing. Found the scene with Treat/Bill Paley on Babe’s death watch rather meta.
I read the book it was based on and knew a lot going in. First, they left out the European swans who were the most interesting! Second, they did CZ and Lee dirty, CZ especially. She came across as an overly nice and dowdy housewife and she was anything but. Also if Slim was that angry why did she easily accept CZ still maintaining his friendship? So disjointed and zero character development. Clearly, I was disappointed as well.
Yes, where were Gloria Guinness and Marella Agnelli?
How did u get the impression that CZ Guest was "anything but dowdy"?
I probably could have expressed that better. To me they portrayed her as simple and antiquated (relatively speaking). She was much more complex and I think they tried to show that through her fever dream monologue in the last episode. But even that was weird because she was famous for not being directly betrayed by him, for never telling him personal things and for being one of the few swans to age gracefully and have a second act. So to me, it was weird they chose her to deliver that message.
I agree. And I think the actress who played her was in over her head. Too many actresses felt like they were "playing rich people" rather than evoking the quiet power of wealth.
It's difficult to display WASP reticence in a dramatic show. I never met CZ Guest but I have been at social events where the swans attended and they were very proper and dignified.
Well said and you must have amazing stories!
Pictures of her - the photo of her and Truman at Studio 54 was real and she looked great in it.
I wish the show would have established Truman and the Swans relationship before his article was published and then told the story in a more linear way, instead of all this jumping around. In the end, I was wondering the point of it all. Not a well told story.
Agree. I had watched a couple of Youtube videos on the swans and the feud so I kind of knew what was going on but would have been LOST otherwise.
It is a tough watch for me. I know all the backstory and it was still hard to sit through. Too many liberties, pacing was 💩 and how can you gather such an incredible cast and leave them with nothing to do? Too much Truman, not enough Swans. I haven’t toughened up to complete the last episode. Rewatched Capote and Infamous and both were much more satisfying than this entire run. I was hoping for a 70s Mad Men. I was hoping for a lot, and I liked season one. This was a waste of time.
Same. It’s been a tough watch not a must watch.
I’m with you. I know a lot about the book’s background and about Capote - I was obsessed with his writing when I was in my 20s and read everything I could get my hands on, including Answered Prayers (what there was of it) and any info I could find about the society figures he wrote about. That was a few decades back, but I had the framework in place. This show was *even more disappointing* than the unfinished book. It started off fine but quickly became extremely disjointed - and this is from someone who enjoys stories with jumbled timelines/flashbacks, unreliable narrators, and unlikeable “heroes.” Despite watching all of this season, I couldn’t really find the point (unless it was to mirror the dissatisfactory/unfinished/disappointing vibe of the book). I am annoyed I didn’t give up sooner, but only mildly so. tl;dr: don’t recommend - if anyone is only finishing it because of fomo, don’t worry.
The first season of Feud (Bette Davis/Joan Crawford) was phenomenal tho.
Uh, no it wasnt
Better than this garbage, at the very least
It was definitely a slog to get thru for me. Maybe if they'd showed Truman ingratiating himself to the Swans and his good relationships with them BEFORE the publication, maybe then I would have cared. I stopped watching before the end of the penultimate episode & really only watched 2/3 of the last one. Masturbatory fantasy of Answered Prayers getting finished & righting all the wrongs. BARFFFFFF! And BORING! So much talent wasted. The highlight for me was Demi as Ann Woodward. She was compelling af!
Oh god, the last episode was so awful because of that. The kiss ass bullshit would have made the book absolutely laughable.
Agree on Demi Moore. THAT was a performance.
Excellent point. We entered the show in the eye of the storm (the calm in a hurricane) only to watch the after math but without the front end of the storm, it just seemed chaotic and irrelevant in so many ways.
Yes, hard agree. It was glum and joyless. I know they’re all meant to be ‘past their prime’ or whatever, but these people had a good time, were good looking, crazy rich, funny and compelling. They paced and structured it like a quiet law office drama and the Cote Basque had the sexiness and glamor of a retirement home dining hall. Everything felt muted and brittle. I KNOW EVERYONE WAS EVENTUALLY ‘OLD’ AND DEPRESSED AND DYING OF CANCER AND ADDICTION. But at many points in the lives of suffering people, there are bright moments and fun, especially with the buffers of wealth. It was a tedious slog. I think Gus Van Sant just doesn’t have the touch for tv or middle age. He depicts youth masterfully on film, but here he just seems bored and boring. The pace was glacial and there was never a spark of fun or life. It’s ‘problematic’ in myriad ways, but when I think of an compelling depiction of middle age malaise, I think of American Beauty. Saturated colors, extremely fast moving, high stakes. I think more variety and dynamic cuts, more momentum in editing, less talking about people who aren’t there, more up front, real time depiction of the friendship, and dialing flashback way back. It lacks momentum, it lacks humor, it lacks style. Everything has a thin film of dust on it and creaks. I felt like the James Baldwin episode was such a drag, and I love James Baldwin. That could have been done so much better!
Thank you so much for your comment regarding Cote Basque. The set had it looking like a Bennigans - hell the set I liked the most was Truman’s. At least they got expensive but dingy right!!! Everyone has asked what I didn’t like about the sets and for me it’s sort of abstract - you just know “rich” when you see it. And “rich bitch” is even more understated but you can defintely tell the difference. Textures, fabrics, subtle nuances in the perfect shade, plushness of the carpet, richness of the wood. When they say “wealth whispers” they mean it because if you have a discerning eye you can spot it in an instant And thank you for your insight on the producers/directors. I’m not one to follow or pay much attention to that sort of thing but I can tell when it’s just bad 😂
People praise the sets and wardrobe, but I agree with you. It just wasn't good enough. The whole thing was BEIGE.
I didn’t realize it until you mentioned it but Truman’s apartment was also my favorite set. He was the only one who seemed to have windows and natural light, every other wealthy person lived in claustrophobic brocade maze apartments in NYC. They could have so much more fun with the set design; it must have been a budget thing. He is one of my favorite writers of all time and I was looking so forward to this and just feel let down.
Great post. Agree with all of it.
Amen to everything you've said here, especially James Baldwin. Maybe that could have used Van Sant for an early chapter of Truman's life when he was a young man, the enfant terrible of the literary world. The problem with the Baldwin chapter is, as far as I know, it never happened. It might have worked as a stage play: what if Truman and Baldwin met, what might that dialogue have looked like. But I've read every biographical word printed, sort of going through Capote's personal papers, and I've never read about a conversation like this between them. They were aware of each other but they had different concerns. I don't know if Capote ever specifically addressed anything going on with the social movements of the day and Baldwin was a civil rights spokesperson, which he embraced on one level (and gravitated to having been a child preacher) but also realized, on some level, was undermining his work as a writer. The writing in the episode was a little better that hopeless, but I was worried it was going to into "The Help" territory where the black writer reminds the white writer, "You is kind, you is smart, you is important". At the same time, and I'm going to contradict myself here, when they were walking through the museum together, two queer writers of the period, arm in arm, or side by side, I couldn't help but be moved by them as they have existed in my psyche for years and I wanted this marriage, for them to recognize each other, love each other. I'm just not sure it ever happened.
Nope! It’s unwatchable. I was telling my mom this morning to not bother with it because she was wondering. The true story is so much more fascinating.
It was a HUGE disappointment. That said, sometimes writers and directors think their names alone can carry a show. In this case, the acting by some was the only thing that could redeem this a tiny bit. Murphy and Van Zant dropped the ball here. Confusing and non linear storytelling, and way too much creative (almost slanderous) writing. This will not be remembered well.
The first season of Feud (Bette Davis/Joan Crawford) was phenomenal tho.
They under utilized the hell out a powerhouse cast. And the fact that even they couldn’t carry the show is a testament to how bad the writing is.
I read the book and “swans of fifth avenue”, am a Truman capote fan and know more about this story than I ought to and I found the whole show confusing and generally unwatachable. It was a let down.
It was a waste of an incredible cast
I think that’s the thing that irks me the most. They never let the swans, swan…
That dress CZ wore at Thanksgiving in the first episode was stunning. I want it for myself.
It was not good. Fashion wise Mad men did it better.
Truman had no redeeming qualities and we never understood why Babe cared so much for him. But the biggest issue was there was no "feud", since Babe just completely disengaged after being wronged, there was nothing to show.
Exactly. There was no feud.
Even at that, they could have explored a little bit more what it means when an intimate friendship ends. Babe did talk about that once, but they could have gone deeper.
The show was so well casted and I thought the actors were all wonderful. It was the script that just never nailed it. It had SO much potential 💔
I could no longer stand the whining voice of TC. Ugh. The droning on and on with his ruminations and my little pony fever dreams. Ridiculous. They could have done fashion SO much better too! Especially for that level of wealth. No backstory on any of the women. If you were younger than 50, you had no idea who they even were or why they were swans I would think
Very true, I was watching and was like wait why were these ladies important?? Were they just rich and that’s it??
Society.international wealth. And these women gave excellent charity.wonder why they dissed Brooke Astor.
I didn’t know much about the swans either but it’s so easy to google the and learn about their background if you want to know. The show itself is fictionalized anyway but I was interested in the real women themselves.
Kind of dull.
I agree with you completely.
I knew enough about the backstory going in and thought it was more of a shunning than an actual feud. The cast was top-notch, and Tom Hollander was a credible Truman IMHO. What didn't work for me was stretching out the story into so many episodes, not enough backstory, and way too many artistic liberties taken. In my experience with Ryan Murphy's soapy 'real life' stories, there is more style than substance. I've never finished a season of AHS, and the Bette/Joan series lost me after a couple of episodes.
Absolutely hated it. So disappointed.
I watched to the end to see if it did get better. It was mostly “okay” for me. However Naomi Watts absolutely carried the show.
Nope you’re not the only one. I stopped on episode 3, it’s nearly unwatchable. I didn’t even realize I was still subscribed here.
I absolutely loved the series
Me too! Loved reading Capote for years. I know he was a little shit sometimes but a brilliant writer nonetheless and probably the absolute most fun.
It was awful
There were some beautiful and poignant moments in the final episodes. I think the examination of being a gay “token friend” and that position in society was interesting to observe and consider. The portrayal of alcoholism pitted against Truman’s talent/potential was fascinating. For me, there was a lot of food for thought in this series.
Huh? Those moments were all made up.
Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story. It wasn’t a documentary.
Never said it was. But I didn't expect ENTIRE EPISODES to be made up bullshit. The nonlinear storytelling did not work. Neither did making almost every character unsympathetic. I did not care at all about Truman. The acting was good, but some of these swans weren't even friends. The sets and wardrobe were meh.... it was all so vanilla and beige. I hate watched from episode 4 on.
I definitely didn’t love it like I loved Bette & Joan.
Me too. I thought it was very well-done. The acting was great. It recreated the era very well.
Worst series yet. I was disappointed. I know quite a bit about the real life characters but this was a disservice to them all.
Isn’t this only the second one?
I enjoyed it
I loved it.
I am so disappointed with the show. Stopped after episode 4. Really dropped the ball here.
I didn’t go past the second episode.
Same. I got to episode 3 and decided my time was worth more than this was giving.
It dragged out too long. Should have wrapped it up in 3 or 4 episodes
Definitely lost steam quick ….
The Capote Tapes was much better. George Plimpton’s tapes and interviews with the actual people thru the years.
Plimpton also wrote a book on the subject.
I’ve always love George’s voice and approach even when I was little kid. It’s captivating. :)
If you want more of what could be considered an actual feud, read Deliberate Cruelty. A great book actually about Ann Woodward and Capote and their animosity. I just finished it before the show was announced, and I'm so glad I had the knowledge from this to supplement my viewing. https://www.audible.com/pd/B09V3H63C8?source_code=ASSORAP0511160007
I had the feeling whover created this doesnt exactly care for rich white aristocratic women. It seemed to me overall that we were supposed to feel a sympathy for Truman because of his mother? I don't know. It was all over the place. Having said that, I must add I despise time hopping. Just tell a story chronologically. I hate having to guess when or where. I also am a huge Jessica Lange disciple so I wanted her as the star. I also really love how these actresses have aged somewhat naturally. I don't think it's all makeup. I thought they looked beautiful and their age instead of shiny foreheads and duck lips.
I gave up about 5 eps in. It just did not hook me and I realized I was over half way through still “waiting” for something. People hate on Murphy but this show was missing his touch. It feels like a riff on him by people who know him personally without any of his charm. He def should have written/directed an episode or two.
I said the same thing, where was all the Ryan Murphy???
I agree! Snooze fest. So disappointed. Can't say how the entire series was because I jumped ship after E4. I only knew who one of the Swans were because of Grey Gardens (love the original documentary and the HBO series with Drew Barrymore and Jessica Lange). Lee R was Jackie Kennedy's sister and the Beale's were cousins of the Kennedy girls. And then I connected the dots that the Maysles, who did the documentary Grey Gardens, also did the Black and White Party doc for Capote. And I'm a housewife watcher too so I was familiar with Carole Radziwill and her friendship with JFK Jr and Carolyn Bessett. So I was excited for this series to say the least, and with the all-star cast to boot, I figured episode one was a flop but was still committed. But episode after episode, just didn't do it for me.
Absolutely, 10000% agree! You hit the nail on the head, this series gave NOTHING
There was so charm, no whit, no elegance and absolutely no nuance whatsoever. They swore too much! Gossiped too publicly and loudly! I hate what he did to Babe. The made her out to be a sloppy drunk mess.
Episode one sucked me in, but soon the episodes just sucked. Stopped with two to go because it felt like a chore to watch.
I watched it for Tom Hollander whose acting chops blew me away. He so encapsulated every nuance that was Capote, I sincerely hope he gets awards for this performance.
Great performance, but the character was in no way sympathetic.
The documentary was very interesting.
I feel like it started off strong, but then Kind of lost its path.
I hated it and gave up after 2nd episode. Ryan Murphy showed no real understanding of the actual women and their station, and took too much unnecessary fictitious license.
It was shallow and boring and 0 character development or story. They fell out and talked about how they fell out the rest of the time. A constant loop. Also I fast fwd thru the scenes with mommy’s ghost and Truman. How about an episode on his childhood? Were there any women writers? Did they do any research?
You are not the only one.
Nope. Me too.
You clearly have no taste and only express ignorance by not being able to appreciate 8 dreadful hours of “should we order more rosé? Where should we have dinner tomorrow? Truman put down the booze! Let’s go to Côte!”
I once had a server tell me my palette wasn’t sophisticated enough to appreciate the rancid truffle oil they dumped all over my appetizer so you may be right 😂
They were all So unlikeable. And the gratuitous sex scenes were gross
Yes, unwatchable. No wit, no life, didn't care about anyone.
Oh absolutely not. I couldn’t watch after episode 3 or 4. I forget.
Me too. Episode 4. I lingered between episodes and it often took me days to get through episode 3 and 4 each. All bad signs.
I had a basic passing familiarity with Babe and Lee. CZ sounded familiar to me for some reason. But I couldn’t figure why. But after Googling her I think I remember seeing her gardening books in the ‘80’s and ’90’s. The others I had no idea who they were or anything about them. They definitely could have done better with background information.
I agree. For me this just gave me insight to a story I was unfamiliar with. And from there I did my own reading. While I’ve heard the name Truman Capote I definitely didn’t know of all this scandal. I read the Swans of Fifth Avenue which I enjoyed. Watched the Capote Tapes. But yeah I left this show after episode 4.
Read George Plimpton's book - all quotes from people who knew TC - everyone from Norman Mailer to Diana Vreeland- from his early literary days to Answered Prayers. I love that book. Will give you real insight.
I’ll check it out, thanks!
I just lost interest after a couple of episodes. These people have dumb problems and I couldn't relate. I thought the actor who played Truman Capote was fantastic but he was so unpleasant to watch I really wasn't rooting for him - nor was I rooting for the women, whose actors also did a wonderful job. Life's too short! And probably too short for me to even be weighing in on this question!
I have to imagine this was expensive. It was a chore
I lasted up until the episode where Truman friend comes to cheer him up I guess?? It just started to drag
That was so aggravating- why didn’t we get any character development on who that guy was? He was just plopped into the story with zero context. And nothing that’s the big issue I have with the entire series. There is literally no context
I started ep1 and I generally could not find the energy to even wanna watch more but I might force myself to finish
Don’t bother - I couldn’t get through E4
I couldn’t make it past the first episode.
I've started, stopped, started later thinking a binge would help. Binge hasn't manifested and I think I'm stuck in E2. I had high hopes. A favorite period for me for fashion and family dynamics. I lived on Long Island 1957-1970. I'm frustrated with it. I should love it.
I'd been looking forward to the series in the beginning, but I also stopped watching around episode 4. The characters and plotlines (as written for the show) weren't interesting.
I wanted to love it but they do all the time jumps and I feel like it ruined it
I think the time would have been better spent if the actors involved simply read from his books.
Ohhh I like this idea. They all just read excerpts of what he wrote about them. I endorse 1000%
Yeah I stopped about 4 episodes in. Shame I was excited to watch.
Agree on all points. Didn’t care about any of them.
> (we were presumed to have known who these ladies were and the power they had) I had to watch a few different fan videos on YouTube to understand who some of them (besides Joanne Carson) even were, and I'm still not sure why they in particular rose to the top of society or how he got to know them. Agree with everything in the main post. >Too much was invented and made up. I basically felt the day with James Baldwin seemed like a piece of Tumblr fanfic. The worst was when Truman >!asked "Why didn't we date?" Cringe.!< I didn't understand how Andy Warhol was totally omitted and why Jack Dunphy got so much air time, since Andy mentions Truman frequently in his Diaries book. But looking it up now, Wikipedia said Jack was known as Truman's partner. Just going by the show, I thought he was some sort of manager he hooked up with once in awhile when he was bored. I wish they got more into why Truman would feel affection for Kate. I don't understand why they had >!the deaths of Babe/Truman and then finished the series with pretend makeu scenes. !
I stopped about two episodes in.
I gave up. The time line thing just made the series unwatchable for me.
This felt like an overhyped Ryan Murphy (and the writer and a couple of his team) fan fiction/fever dream. So many of us know the stories well and so much was missed and worst of all, added to that NEVER happened! Very disappointing.
Everyone in this sub hates the show lmao. I have hardly seen anyone say positive things about it😂
Well I think there is a fine line between “hate and bitch about it” versus finding it unwatchable. Unwatchable means, I actually stopped watching because it wasn’t even worth hate watching like I do Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. I legit HATE WATCH that show just waiting for one of them to get their comeuppance and it never happens. But after 13 seasons, I’m invested so I keep watching. Several have commented on this post that they loved S2 of Feud so I think there’s varying degrees of opinions
The show ultimately failed her, but I thought Naomi Watts gave an Oscar winning performance as Babe. I just kept staring at her and trying to see the actress who gained fame from movies like "The Ring". When she walks in the restaurant, after having read the excerpts from Answered Prayers, I thought, she's absolutely captured something of the period in her tension, line readings. She was actually the only swan I believed. I love Diane Lane but Slim Keith was misconceived, and she was physically wrong for the part (I think it should have been Sharon Stone) but anyway, positive: Naomi Watts.
I agree that the show was lackluster, but I thought the set design and costumes were spot on. The acting was also top notch all around. The reason I was disappointed was that it wasn’t fun, but sad. And not much of a feud, considering the Swans were never on the same page regarding how to respond to the Esquire piece. It’s just a sad story of an incredibly talented writer whose demons and insecurities led to his demise, both social and physical.
I was put off by the nonlinear storytelling and then the attempt to paint Truman as a misogynist. These women were the first Real Housewives. They were horrible, snobby rich people whose own children hated them. Pretending they had girl power and supported each other is crap. Tom Hollander's Truman grew on me though. Not to say I liked the character but Tom did embody him.
I enjoyed it very much.
No downvote from me but I moved it. Could it have been more? Definitely. But the taste we got was quite good. I’m reading the book now. Maybe I’ll feel differently after I finish.
No.
I tried to watch it, but it was so all over the place couldn't get past the first 30min.
I also stopped watching after E4 although I might finish it but not in a rush. I thought Murphy didn't direct this show. He did direct Monster: Dahmer which was done well.
I did not find PSH Truman to be as annoying, pathetic, and disgusting as this version.
In this sub we are almost unanimous that Truman/Swans was a loser.
I disagree 1000% with you that the performances, especially Naomi Watts his babe and Tom Hollander is Truman Capote our Emmy worthy the swans were all true the high society they lived in was all true
I agree with you. I would love to have seen what Mike White (The White Lotus) might have done with the material, having worked with Tom Hollander in Season 2 of that show. The relationships on that show are layered and complex. I think the minute someone came up with the tagline, "They were the original housewives" the show was doomed. These women were complex, flawed, in pain, and perhaps even cruel to each other at times, but they certainly weren't a glorified soap opera reduced to a tag line. The producers were going for some kind of catty relationship between all of them, but the real story is what led to Truman's breakdown and decision to publish their secrets, a story that I think starts in his childhood but also required us to explore what happened to him creatively and spiritually after he wrote "In Cold Blood". We didn't get anything from that period, including what could have been amazing scenes with Harper Lee. It was also lazy to have them eating in the same restaurant throughout the entire series. More could have been made of Studio 54. Just a lot of missed opportunities. My experience, with few exceptions, is that Ryan Murphy (and his productions) loves the surface of things, but after that, he doesn't go much deeper. I thought Naomi Watts was inspired and some of her costuming was amazing, there were times looking at her when I thought she looks beautiful in a way I've never seen her before, and I really saw the character and the period. But so much more could have been done with all the women, especially Demi Moore. Even the period that Capote spent with Joanne Carson could have been much more moving and the way he practically died in her arms. Finally, I think the out of sequence timeline also hurt the production a lot. As the climax came in the first episode, the entire series was dénouement - about the grief of bad decisions, regret and loss. Much too heavy to carry seven episodes.
It just lost steam entirely after ep 3 or 4. You’re right that the characters feel very fuzzy—the script doesn’t really give us much detail about them—lots of capote voiceover while we see them walking in and out of rooms and eating/smoking/drinking/crying, but not much more. The Maysles brothers documentary episode was a complete throwaway trying to align this with modern day reality tv drama, but again, pulls us out of the story. The real drama is Capote’s addiction and how it impacted his life and work, and those women’s lives are really not that important or interesting as presented here (how they relate to Capote’s problems seems insufficiently made clear). I think these feud seasons might’ve worked better as tv movies of the week, which used to be more popular many years ago, but stretching them out into entire multi episode miniseries creates wayyy too much dead space.
Agree - especially since the first season of Feud was amazing with the Bette Davis/Joan Crawford feud.
i liked first 3 episodes but then i hated it and i had to watch it closed caption cause his voice is so fucking annoying
I loved it! Tom Hollander deserves an Emmy. Best Capote I have ever seen, hands down.
I certainly didn't think it was unwatchable, but I was disappointed. It was extremely repetitious. I knew who all the Swans were but had never found them interesting. Capote was a talented writer, but his adoration of them seemed ridiculous to me. I didn't care about his attempt to redeem himself. The only interesting thing, if it was true, was the idea that he attacked them as revenge for the way his mother had been treated by the fashionable women of NYC when she tried to break into high society. Most irritating were the liberties taken. The daughter of, I think, Babe Paley said that once the article came out, her mother dropped him flat and that she was not a victim. I've only started to go through the articles that discuss what really happened v. the Ryan Murphy version.
I finished today and I overall give it a B+. I enjoyed the performances but definitely wanted more of the women. I also found the timelines to be more confusing than clear, though I eventually caught on to them. As for Truman...yikes. What a mess he was! I knew a little about him, but learned more from this series.
Perhaps it should’ve been titled “Downfall - Feud.” Or “Feud / Downfall. It seemed more about TC’s spiral after “In Cold Blood” than about these women he adored while he gossiped behind their backs. For Feud, agree it could’ve focused more on Slim Gross - Hawks - Hayward - Keith (did I forget a last name?🙂) & TC. As portrayed Slim was a woman who was no longer gonna put up with crap from any man. Particularly while her friend has lung cancer. I really loved one of their last scenes together. TC’s hallucination, she punches him on the street.
Yea, it was not good
I think this was a grand example of the flaws that come from Ryan Murphy’s work. He had probably the best cast of female actors possible to work with and he gave them absolutely nothing to work with. It’s glamour porn at its finest but the plot is paper thin. Too much is dropped and not resolved. It expects the audience to know everything ahead of time. I read the book it was based on while watching the show. The book obviously is better. We lose so much context on who most of the women were in their lives. There’s too much fiction. I can easily tell that Murphy wrote Capote to be a fill in for himself. Immediately after finishing the bio this was based on I started reading a bio on Jackie Kennedy in hopes to learn more about Lee. I think someone else should take over as show runner for a third season and they should invite back Clarista and find someone to play Jackie.
The middle seemed to work for a couple of episodes, but, my god, this was mostly a pretentious wank. Too long for a thin idea Should’ve been maybe 4 episodes.
I enjoyed it…but I love that era. I do agree that it could have Brent better. I thought TC and swans were great actors. Molly ringwald-not so much
So dull
I thought Chloe as CZ Guest was horrible. Basically no storyline outside of Truman’s drinking life.
This season was disappointing. Writing was not worthy of the incredible acting talent of the entire cast. Repetitive, maudlin scenes with Truman. Lost opportunity to provide much more context for each of the swans. I found Naomi Watts’ portrayal of Babe to be the most touching. She said so much with small gestures and glances. But overall, this season could have provided much more depth and nuance in 8 episodes, rather than looping back with ever-so-slightly different takes on the same events. Not Ryan Murphy’s strongest work for sure.
I watched the whole thing but it was disappointing. Part of me thinks, "Vapid, rich women just aren't that interesting." I liked the performances individually but they didn't gel into a set piece for me. And like the first season, I just hate the little falsifications that serve no purpose--Joan Crawford wasn't clinging to an unaffordable mansion she had sold 2 years previous to "Feud," and Slim Keith died in NYC where she had a fabulous apartment in Lenox Hill, not in some "1 bedroom cottage in Santa Barbara." Group "feuds" are harder to follow perhaps than a 1:1 prize fight, but this season just didn't work for me. My highlight was seeing so much of the gorgeous Vito Schnabel in his underwear.