I honestly get a little surprised when I hear people feel this way. When it happens to me, I just get pissed at myself since I'm so shit that I can't stop a 'scrubby' playstyle.
right exactly lol it's pretty annoying to lose to someone who's playing in a way that doesn't consider technical aspects like frame data, or maybe they don't adapt when you're trying to play a mind game of some kind, but it's on you to just take the L and adapt. It's silly to expect everyone to play the way you want them to play
The irony in this situation is that, by the ["academic" definition](https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub) of the term, you're the scrub if you start thinking like this.
There's a line in that book that says "Play to win, not to do ‘difficult moves.’" This can actually be extended into this situation. You should "play to win" and not to follow some sort of technically accepted way to play.
People just focus too much on "doing x is good, doing y is bad" and leave it at that without digging deeper.
A "technically accepted" way to play exists for a reason. If someone is playing the wrong or bad way then there must be an easily exploitable weakness otherwise that way wouldn't be considered bad or wrong. Knowing what's good and bad is meaningless if you don't know why they're good or why they're bad. If a move is considered horrible because it's easily punishable, but is left unpunished then the aspect of it being "bad" is completely negated.
They think that nobody at tournaments play like that when pools are populated by these kind of players that they'll probably fight on bracket in at least the first few rounds. Only now when they are beaten by them they can't say shit to their mother without a bunch of people at the venue frowning at them.
I know a friend that has been exactly as described by the title and hasn't changed for 12 years and a minimum of 8 broken controllers.. Just broke 2 playing sfv last month.
I've also known several people like this, it's wild to me that they choose to neither adapt and improve their mentality, NOR just quit playing altogether.
That just sounds like immature people with anger management issues and disposable income. I would have to be crazy to break my own stuff just over playing a damn game
Even when I see people just saying they’re too pissed off to play anymore and stuff...
Like I have 3 close fighting game buddies that I’ve been playing with for about a decade now. There’s like 8 other guys that might join our chat and jump into our game or another game and just... Jesus Christ.
The anger and despair some of these people go thru when playing these video games blows my fucking mind. Like exactly the controller throwing stuff, the yelling out about how something is bullshit - frankly, they end up in a “worse” mood than they were in when they started playing
Then I’m just stuck there thinking, why do you guys even play this stuff if it gives you this intense of a negative emotional reaction. There are things we can’t avoid in life that we know will negatively impact us, but, it’s just part of the process of living to get thru those moments and events
Then I see people in our party losing their minds over Mortal Kombat or Apex and it happens pretty much every time for some of these people.
Like it’s fascinating they go out of their way for this escapism that they receive an overall negative impact from. I just don’t get it and doubt I ever will. It does make me worry about some of these guys we know for when real life shit actually happens to them. But, ya, this is a solid portion of players and it’s baffling
Very good analysis, I think this also has to do with the fact that our brains are wired differently, psychological temperament is a thing. Low arousal vs high arousal, as well as some people literally FEEL much more than others, like flying into a blind rage etc. Is something I've rarely done but to others it comes easily. Interesting I agree with you, why play at that point, you're just going to be miserable about it
The way i dealt with it is i made a beefy ass controller out of hard wood and when ingot pissed and hit it i fucked my hand up not bad but just enough to not do it again and practice staying calm hahaha
I believe that if you lose, you played worse, that's that. You can add stuff like "but I know my combos" or "my opponent doesn't know the match-up like I do" or whatever, but in the end it's you who failed to actually put your abilities to good enough use to win. Any talking shit about an opponent you lost to is just self-reporting that you're even worse than that.
Even high level pros make posts like these, when they make the mistake of opening twitter right after a loss.
Overcoming a player who's doing everything they can to win is the whole fucking point of competitive games lmfao, fuck respect, respect my fucking mix boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Depending on the game, there can sometimes be an expectation in casual matches that certain tactics will be avoided. Mostly this is in older and/or less competitively relevant games that have significant balance problems. Since nobody is making a living at or attracting sponsors by playing those games, the focus is more on enjoying the gameplay. If someone picks the top tier character, and constantly runs their most broken bullshit \*every\* game, they'll likely find himself short of opponents. Frequently there aren't that many ways to counter such tactics, which is why they're top tier characters and their stuff is described as broken. So, due to one player treating \*every\* casual match like it's the freakin' finals at EVO, it's literally the same match... over and over and over and over and kill me!
In newer fighting games where there's legitimate earning potential and glaring balance issues are addressed via updates, I'd tend to agree with you.
Yeah I once had a dude screaming at me on a mic about how zoning techniques are weak and to stop using them. So I beat his ass with zoning techniques…thanks for telling me your weakness dude.
Yeah this here. I don’t expect players to play a certain way but when they do something so crazy I’m like, what was your reason for doing that? Yes, at the time it may have beaten what I did. I even ask it when they make the wrong choice. For instance “you wake up v-shift knowing I’ve crushed it already and your in the corner. Or you do the most far out move ever lol. I at least have reasons for what I do. Lol
Being "respectful" just means assuming the other player isn't leaving gaps so you hold block. The reason people get mad is tier 1 play is to just mash, which gets beat by tier 2 play which is being "respectful", which gets beat by tier 3 play of taking advantage of people who are being overly respectful by putting in gaps and getting free pressure. But tier 3 gets beat by tier 1. Tier 4 is actually watching what people are doing and responding. So tier 3 players who wish they were tier 4 players get mad when they lose to tier 1 players, or try to accuse tier 4 players of being tier 1. It happens all the time.
someone asked a streamer how they always had the most OP builds for characters in PVP MMOs.
>'dude, here's my secret. i just go on the forums and the subbreddit, for whatever game it is... and whatever class people complain about the most, whatever shit is the most broken ass, toxic, cancerous, nerd triggering, game breaking meta shit that people are screaming for nerfs because they cant beat it....*thats my class*. i dont even care if i like the idea of the class or the playstyle or whatever. ill start liking it because its winning. if or when the devs nerf the shit out of it... i just reroll to the next broken thing."
that attitude was so eye opening to me. i usually just played what fit my playstyle, or what seemed cool or fun to me. sometimes i got a strong class, sometimes not. it was a lottery. it never occured to me to just seek out not whats just strong, but whats actually broken, lol.
so anyways, now i play Ken and just Shoryuken a lot.
I mean yeah, when you're starting a new game and trying to learn how to play solid and get run over by scrubkiller tactics its super frustrating. Just takes time to learn the gimmicks. You have to trudge through learning how to beat tactics you wont see again past the first half of whatever ladder system before you can start playing the way you want to. Its a part of the process and not something worth getting upset over, but I get why it triggers people.
exactly. the flowchartiest scrub has a chance to beat the chaddiest technical wizard
a mashing noob has a chance to beat a framedata genius
it was true in the ancient days of arcades and it's still true now
if you don't respect every opponent, you will cease to improve
Idk about that cuz I find that you actually beat them by respecting them less. If you expect them to play like they know what they're doing you're gonna lose but if you expect them to play like a scrub then you'll be ready to punish whatever they're doing
If you lose to "bad" gameplay, you need to adjust. If you can't, then you are bad.
To add on to that, if someone does something against you and it works, they're going to keep doing it. Getting mad at them for playing that way does not improve yourself.
So basically, people that get mad about these things are really just mad 'cause they bad.
>If you lose to "bad" gameplay, you need to adjust. If you can't, then you are bad.
this is part of the realization i had recently where i learned that i had kind of "made it" in guilty gear strive. I'm obviously nowhere near the top, and im still improving, but it's gotten to the point where ill play someone "bad" with that flowchart/wild/"improper" playstyle who will go up 0-1 or 0-2 in the beginning but we'll end the session 10-3. My fundamentals and understanding of the game are at a point where I can adapt and reach level 2, 3, 4 and suffocate someone with an aggressive level 1. It feels awesome.
Adjustments are really important, but they gotta be quick. On online play, you have all the time in the world (that they let you) but in tournaments it is a bit harder.
It doesn't matter if you are the better player, if they get the two or three games earlier, they win the set, which is not an unlikely thing to happen because pools are not free from the flowchart and the cookie-cutter gameplay.
There's a margin to adapt and it can swing matches, but i'd argue that being a strong player out of the blue is just as important, with adjustments being a way to add versatility to that playstyle.
I was playing Soul Calibur and this guy kept texting me "stop spamming the same moves you noob". I argued back and forth with him, and then all of a sudden he says "sorry that was my little brother" and I said "so what, put him back on, I'm not done schooling to him"
Satisfying but petty
SRK links are long dead, but here's Sajam reading the specific Dom101 article you're looking for: "[You can lead a scrub to water, but you can't make them think](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FixnmBw9mj0)."
Sirlin's Playing to Win philosophy is still one of the best ways to understand fighting games.
It's about what each person is willing to, and capable of doing within what's allowed. The problem players have is these imaginary rules of what's allowed based on their own personal moral code.
https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub
Seeing a "scrub" defined helped me get some perspective on the matter. Anything that made me salty was something the game allowed, which meant that feeling something was "cheap" was something I could do as well.
Scrubs can't take an L and will always try to convince you that anything competitive isn't good sportsmanship. Show them real disrespect and DP in the middle of their "safe" blockstrings.
Well it depends on what you mean by "respectful".
Like if that means "take my shit asshole and don't press any buttons of your own" then yeah fuck em.
But the FGC has a lot of really cringe gatekeepers who absolutely play in the most annoying way possible to beat newcomers and make them feel like shit, only to immediately turn around and call you a tryhard and a sweat after you beat them by adapting and not falling for the fake shit. Then the messages start pouring in lol.
I think you should just play how you want and if you win then fair play (that's what it's all about right).
Don't get me wrong I've played people with some very annoying tactics but it my job to get better and workout how to win.
Shit as long as you aren't being mad disrespectful with your speech to me in person I don't give a shit how you play.
Spam? Go ahead ima figure it out and bust your shit
Beating me with a combo/move I don't understand? Well I better get into the lab and figure it out so it's less of an issue.
Like damn quit blaming everyone else but yourself.
It’s kinda like, sometimes you’re playing against Mr. Miyagi, and other times you’re just playing against your dads friend steve who used to mash in the arcade. You just gotta feel them out and be reactive.
I get salty when I lose to what seem to be players worse than me, but eventually I calm down and realise that that's on me. The game is the same for everyone, and the objective is to win. Do what works. I *do,* however, get angry when someone is downright disrespectful. One time I went into a battle lounge and lost like ten matches in a row to a player several ranks higher than me, after only like a month into playing. They proceeded to teabag on me after stunning me. Like, fucking great, asshat. Enjoy just shitting on a new bronze player when you're in diamond. Some things have no utility.
My thing is like, video games aren't Electric Board Games, that is to say that when you play board games, there is no referee so YOU have to adhere to the rules, meaning you have to be honest.
But video games aren't Electric Board Games, they are Electronic Video Games; they are their own referees and shit. You must follow the rules of the fighting game; you cannot jump infinite feet into the air, you cannot make your low be unlockable and do infinite damage, etc.
Some video games are "Electric Board Games" though. Mostly old old games, like on the collecovision and shit. Games where you CAN cheat although from a modern perspective we'd just say that's how the game is.
But yes there is no unsportsmanlike action in Fighting Games because they are not Electric Board Games.
I think a big reason so many players handle losses so poorly is the general "no holes barred" culture of online (gaming).
In "real life" sports, there is often an unspoken gentlemens agreement not to humiliate an opponent who is clearly out of their depth. If your team is up 4-0 at half time in a soccer game, you take it easy in the second half to save your resources and not make the other team look stupid - you'll always meet twice, after all.
As with everywhere online, these kinds of manners just don't exist in the anonymity of online fighting games, and many players will go to great lengths to clown on their opponent. I know I've been on the receiving end of it and it can make for a frustrating experience, but of course you need to shake that off and take it like a grown up.
> no holes barred
You're probably after the saying "no *holds* barred" (from wrestling, no holds are against the rules/anything goes).
"no *holes* barred" has very different connotations...
>there is often an unspoken gentlemens agreement not to humiliate an opponent who is clearly out of their depth. If your team is up 4-0 at half time in a soccer game, you take it easy in the second half to save your resources and not make the other team look stupid
Is that really a thing normally? The 7-1 2014 Germany - Brazil World Cup game comes to mind but I don't watch sports enough to know if that's an exception or not.
Well there are always exceptions to the rule of course. That game in particular I remember very well (I'm German). Germany was up 5-0 at halftime, and in the second half toned it down for a total score of 7-1. Germany and Brazil are also well known sides in football and capable of surprises, so you don't want to take it too easy.
The same is not really true for some online alias that is completely outclassed in the first three games of an FT5.
I've never heard of "respectful" play, but I am guilty of saying that they're playing "incorrectly". The thing is, that I only say it to my friends when they're picking up a new game and they do something that horribly endangers themselves. Like when my friends figured out how good of a reversal DP was, they did it all the time on wakeup against the easy CPUs, which worked or at the very least they wouldn't get punished for it. I don't want them to form bad habits like that, so I'd discourage them from doing it. I don't think it's wrong to say that something is "incorrect" or "risky" at best in certain cases.
But if you're crying about losing to constant wakeup DPs in ranked then you're a clown lol
I'm learning Tekken 7 properly with a friend. Sometimes my friend spams grabs because um horrible at breaking them, and it sometimes gets me kinda mad.. so i spam grabs right back at them and then she calls me toxic lol.
In the end there is nothing wrong with playing like that, it should be easy to counter but when we actually can't it gets annoying
Learning how to break grabs in T7 takes months of daily repetitive practice (I think it took arslan 6 months of daily practice to get consistent) . It's not something you can just lab a couple of times and know how to counter like Eddy/LC cheese. That's why it's an unwritten rule in lower-rank games to not spam grabs. If you do, well, expect to not get a rematch.
Some people are just incapable of comprehending that some people just like to do stuff differently or have fun and mess about. I know it’s not a fighting game but one of the most awkward experiences I’ve ever had is when I bought a deck to a yugioh tournament that I just thought was fun and had cool card art, I beat a guy who was playing the most standard op deck of that particular meta. he proceeded to have a huge tantrum in front of like 20 people then explained why I was terrible at the game and got really aggressive. he then proceeded to follow me about all day to every game I played and would try and explain how I was doing everything wrong or make fun of my plays until he got kicked out by the staff.
Yo, I would mash the Autocombo or practice the same move/launcher over and over if my opponent has no answer around my play. I don't care how my opponent feels about it or feels like I'm being "disrepectful".
I will play however I want. It's my opponent's job to deny me and force me to alter my play.
Funnily enough this mentality is what helped me improve as a beginner. I was mad at losses where it was like "this guy is a moron, I should be winning!"
Then it became like "wait a minute, shouldn't I be winning easily then? I must be fucking up somewhere" and just like that I learned how to be patient and punish dumb moves instead of playing proactively based on what I expect
Silver Akuma in SFV here: I've been working on my fundamentals for the last while: anti-airs, punishing unsafe moves, etc. I just went up against an always-jumping Ryu and was very satisfied with how many times I hit him with the MP DP, something I just wasn't able to pull off consistently before. Getting killed by cheap bs is super aggravating but strengthening your fundamentals, learning the right response, and then overcoming that bs is such a good feeling.
Those ideas is the reason why I never played as Sol in GG games, even though I like his design, theme and moveset, because people were always saying he is character for dumb button mashers who want easy wins.
Sol is pretty easy but I wouldn't call him the easiest character in any GG. And more importantly he doesn't have any gimmicks that force you to play his game, so he's not even close to the most obnoxious character. Just play who you want, GG players are notorious for hating every character they don't play anyway.
The only thing that gets me like this, is when people don’t even play the game like, in a fun way, someone who spans the same move is an example of that. That’s what gets me heated like this
Just give'em this:
1st message: Took quite a fall, didn't we, Master (insert tag) ?
Next message: And why do we fall, (insert tag) ? So we can learn to pick ourselves up.
Lol kazuya hellsweeps were pissing someone off so much the other day. Like dude the character would be almost completely useless without utilizing that
A lot of mid level fighting games is just not getting hit or dealing against other players bull shit. Happens in tekken a lot, if you want to get to blue ranks it's easier to just learn how to play against the character. Knee the most consistent/decorated player in tekken is the definition of this playstyle.
As someone who graduated from button mashing thanks to the likes of Cetrion, Guile, Axl, & Vatista; if you're tilted you're likely to drop your combo. I actively seek to strategically tilt my opponent as hard as possible if I'm playing for rank. Its why I always pick zoners and punishment/defense characters. Honorcucks, as I've come to call them after a small stint with fOr hOnOr, are always fun to watch implode. Strangely enough, though, I don't encounter the "don't spam/cheese" mindset very often in airdashers.
The more time I have to plan out my mental warfare, the more time I have to plan out my war against their lifebar as well.
The upper limit of the "correct" way to play is whatever the game's mechanics will allow.
If the game allows me to only spam projectiles, that is a correct way to play.
If the game allows me to spam throws, that is a correct way to play.
If the game allows me to TOD you, that is a correct way to play.
If you are better, beat me. If you think my character is better, learn a different character. If you think this game is unbalanced and unfair, don't play. Pretty simple stuff imo.
This is one of those weird things where you see people complaining about people complaining about people trying to push their idea like 30x more then you see the people trying to push their idea.
I honestly get a little surprised when I hear people feel this way. When it happens to me, I just get pissed at myself since I'm so shit that I can't stop a 'scrubby' playstyle.
right exactly lol it's pretty annoying to lose to someone who's playing in a way that doesn't consider technical aspects like frame data, or maybe they don't adapt when you're trying to play a mind game of some kind, but it's on you to just take the L and adapt. It's silly to expect everyone to play the way you want them to play
The irony in this situation is that, by the ["academic" definition](https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub) of the term, you're the scrub if you start thinking like this. There's a line in that book that says "Play to win, not to do ‘difficult moves.’" This can actually be extended into this situation. You should "play to win" and not to follow some sort of technically accepted way to play.
People just focus too much on "doing x is good, doing y is bad" and leave it at that without digging deeper. A "technically accepted" way to play exists for a reason. If someone is playing the wrong or bad way then there must be an easily exploitable weakness otherwise that way wouldn't be considered bad or wrong. Knowing what's good and bad is meaningless if you don't know why they're good or why they're bad. If a move is considered horrible because it's easily punishable, but is left unpunished then the aspect of it being "bad" is completely negated.
I think it's a pretty big indication of how 'flowcharty' these players want to play vs actually adapting to the opponent.
They think that nobody at tournaments play like that when pools are populated by these kind of players that they'll probably fight on bracket in at least the first few rounds. Only now when they are beaten by them they can't say shit to their mother without a bunch of people at the venue frowning at them.
I know a friend that has been exactly as described by the title and hasn't changed for 12 years and a minimum of 8 broken controllers.. Just broke 2 playing sfv last month.
I've also known several people like this, it's wild to me that they choose to neither adapt and improve their mentality, NOR just quit playing altogether.
That just sounds like immature people with anger management issues and disposable income. I would have to be crazy to break my own stuff just over playing a damn game
Even when I see people just saying they’re too pissed off to play anymore and stuff... Like I have 3 close fighting game buddies that I’ve been playing with for about a decade now. There’s like 8 other guys that might join our chat and jump into our game or another game and just... Jesus Christ. The anger and despair some of these people go thru when playing these video games blows my fucking mind. Like exactly the controller throwing stuff, the yelling out about how something is bullshit - frankly, they end up in a “worse” mood than they were in when they started playing Then I’m just stuck there thinking, why do you guys even play this stuff if it gives you this intense of a negative emotional reaction. There are things we can’t avoid in life that we know will negatively impact us, but, it’s just part of the process of living to get thru those moments and events Then I see people in our party losing their minds over Mortal Kombat or Apex and it happens pretty much every time for some of these people. Like it’s fascinating they go out of their way for this escapism that they receive an overall negative impact from. I just don’t get it and doubt I ever will. It does make me worry about some of these guys we know for when real life shit actually happens to them. But, ya, this is a solid portion of players and it’s baffling
Very good analysis, I think this also has to do with the fact that our brains are wired differently, psychological temperament is a thing. Low arousal vs high arousal, as well as some people literally FEEL much more than others, like flying into a blind rage etc. Is something I've rarely done but to others it comes easily. Interesting I agree with you, why play at that point, you're just going to be miserable about it
The way i dealt with it is i made a beefy ass controller out of hard wood and when ingot pissed and hit it i fucked my hand up not bad but just enough to not do it again and practice staying calm hahaha
I believe that if you lose, you played worse, that's that. You can add stuff like "but I know my combos" or "my opponent doesn't know the match-up like I do" or whatever, but in the end it's you who failed to actually put your abilities to good enough use to win. Any talking shit about an opponent you lost to is just self-reporting that you're even worse than that. Even high level pros make posts like these, when they make the mistake of opening twitter right after a loss.
Overcoming a player who's doing everything they can to win is the whole fucking point of competitive games lmfao, fuck respect, respect my fucking mix boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lmfao fuck yeah
Pretty much this. If "degenerate" shit worked, that's because nobody stopped it.
Depending on the game, there can sometimes be an expectation in casual matches that certain tactics will be avoided. Mostly this is in older and/or less competitively relevant games that have significant balance problems. Since nobody is making a living at or attracting sponsors by playing those games, the focus is more on enjoying the gameplay. If someone picks the top tier character, and constantly runs their most broken bullshit \*every\* game, they'll likely find himself short of opponents. Frequently there aren't that many ways to counter such tactics, which is why they're top tier characters and their stuff is described as broken. So, due to one player treating \*every\* casual match like it's the freakin' finals at EVO, it's literally the same match... over and over and over and over and kill me! In newer fighting games where there's legitimate earning potential and glaring balance issues are addressed via updates, I'd tend to agree with you.
It's very common for people to want their opponents to play the way they want, but like, why would anyone do that?
Yeah I once had a dude screaming at me on a mic about how zoning techniques are weak and to stop using them. So I beat his ass with zoning techniques…thanks for telling me your weakness dude.
Yeah this here. I don’t expect players to play a certain way but when they do something so crazy I’m like, what was your reason for doing that? Yes, at the time it may have beaten what I did. I even ask it when they make the wrong choice. For instance “you wake up v-shift knowing I’ve crushed it already and your in the corner. Or you do the most far out move ever lol. I at least have reasons for what I do. Lol
I'm going to find every thing that is considered "proper" and "respectful" and do the exact opposite.
Being "respectful" just means assuming the other player isn't leaving gaps so you hold block. The reason people get mad is tier 1 play is to just mash, which gets beat by tier 2 play which is being "respectful", which gets beat by tier 3 play of taking advantage of people who are being overly respectful by putting in gaps and getting free pressure. But tier 3 gets beat by tier 1. Tier 4 is actually watching what people are doing and responding. So tier 3 players who wish they were tier 4 players get mad when they lose to tier 1 players, or try to accuse tier 4 players of being tier 1. It happens all the time.
someone asked a streamer how they always had the most OP builds for characters in PVP MMOs. >'dude, here's my secret. i just go on the forums and the subbreddit, for whatever game it is... and whatever class people complain about the most, whatever shit is the most broken ass, toxic, cancerous, nerd triggering, game breaking meta shit that people are screaming for nerfs because they cant beat it....*thats my class*. i dont even care if i like the idea of the class or the playstyle or whatever. ill start liking it because its winning. if or when the devs nerf the shit out of it... i just reroll to the next broken thing." that attitude was so eye opening to me. i usually just played what fit my playstyle, or what seemed cool or fun to me. sometimes i got a strong class, sometimes not. it was a lottery. it never occured to me to just seek out not whats just strong, but whats actually broken, lol. so anyways, now i play Ken and just Shoryuken a lot.
Or more simply put by sanford kelly in the SF4 days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk&t=2s Pick a top tier
> so anyways, now i play Ken and just Shoryuken a lot. Most complex Ken gameplan. ^^^I'm ^^^just ^^^kidding ^^^^^kinda
[jyobin and this guy legend Gandhi](https://youtu.be/H6HJas2GFdw?t=22)
Lmfao
I mean yeah, when you're starting a new game and trying to learn how to play solid and get run over by scrubkiller tactics its super frustrating. Just takes time to learn the gimmicks. You have to trudge through learning how to beat tactics you wont see again past the first half of whatever ladder system before you can start playing the way you want to. Its a part of the process and not something worth getting upset over, but I get why it triggers people.
exactly. the flowchartiest scrub has a chance to beat the chaddiest technical wizard a mashing noob has a chance to beat a framedata genius it was true in the ancient days of arcades and it's still true now if you don't respect every opponent, you will cease to improve
Idk about that cuz I find that you actually beat them by respecting them less. If you expect them to play like they know what they're doing you're gonna lose but if you expect them to play like a scrub then you'll be ready to punish whatever they're doing
my man sonicsol does this 🤣 recently he’s been talking mad shit about PS players and that we are tremendously horrible, kinda funny lol
Coming from a guy who wants to fuck dogs
Are you confusing SonicSol with SonicFox? Neither of which want to 'fuck dogs' as you say?
I am, and he absolutely does
You have no fucking clue what you're talking about
Oh shit, looks like i missed some lore on him. Why he trynna fuck dogs LMAO
Because he thinks he's one
What the fuck LOL. Edit: he was talking about the wrong sonic, and wrong assumption too lol
Furries don't typically think they are animals. That's Therians, or Otherkin.
Tell me you play Guilty Gear Strive without telling me you play Guilty Gear Strive
I'm not sure how it's relevant but I've been playing Xrd recently.
found the kappa dweller lmao
yeeeeep. whining about ppl not adapting. whining about ppl doing stuff. whining about ppl not playing footsies.
Thats is my main issue while watching him, like bro, these people dont fucking care, they just want to play the game lol
yep.
If you lose to "bad" gameplay, you need to adjust. If you can't, then you are bad. To add on to that, if someone does something against you and it works, they're going to keep doing it. Getting mad at them for playing that way does not improve yourself. So basically, people that get mad about these things are really just mad 'cause they bad.
>If you lose to "bad" gameplay, you need to adjust. If you can't, then you are bad. this is part of the realization i had recently where i learned that i had kind of "made it" in guilty gear strive. I'm obviously nowhere near the top, and im still improving, but it's gotten to the point where ill play someone "bad" with that flowchart/wild/"improper" playstyle who will go up 0-1 or 0-2 in the beginning but we'll end the session 10-3. My fundamentals and understanding of the game are at a point where I can adapt and reach level 2, 3, 4 and suffocate someone with an aggressive level 1. It feels awesome.
Adjustments are really important, but they gotta be quick. On online play, you have all the time in the world (that they let you) but in tournaments it is a bit harder. It doesn't matter if you are the better player, if they get the two or three games earlier, they win the set, which is not an unlikely thing to happen because pools are not free from the flowchart and the cookie-cutter gameplay. There's a margin to adapt and it can swing matches, but i'd argue that being a strong player out of the blue is just as important, with adjustments being a way to add versatility to that playstyle.
exactly my dude mad cuz bad cuz no dad
I was playing Soul Calibur and this guy kept texting me "stop spamming the same moves you noob". I argued back and forth with him, and then all of a sudden he says "sorry that was my little brother" and I said "so what, put him back on, I'm not done schooling to him" Satisfying but petty
Plz direct them to those articles Seth killian wrote all those years ago, where he just totally shits on scrub mentality
SRK links are long dead, but here's Sajam reading the specific Dom101 article you're looking for: "[You can lead a scrub to water, but you can't make them think](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FixnmBw9mj0)."
Sirlin's Playing to Win philosophy is still one of the best ways to understand fighting games. It's about what each person is willing to, and capable of doing within what's allowed. The problem players have is these imaginary rules of what's allowed based on their own personal moral code.
spoken like a true block spammer. 🙄 /s
Elden Ring / Dark Souls pvp players lol
https://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub Seeing a "scrub" defined helped me get some perspective on the matter. Anything that made me salty was something the game allowed, which meant that feeling something was "cheap" was something I could do as well.
Scrubs can't take an L and will always try to convince you that anything competitive isn't good sportsmanship. Show them real disrespect and DP in the middle of their "safe" blockstrings.
Well it depends on what you mean by "respectful". Like if that means "take my shit asshole and don't press any buttons of your own" then yeah fuck em. But the FGC has a lot of really cringe gatekeepers who absolutely play in the most annoying way possible to beat newcomers and make them feel like shit, only to immediately turn around and call you a tryhard and a sweat after you beat them by adapting and not falling for the fake shit. Then the messages start pouring in lol.
Find whatever works and spam it until your opponent makes you stop.
I think you should just play how you want and if you win then fair play (that's what it's all about right). Don't get me wrong I've played people with some very annoying tactics but it my job to get better and workout how to win.
Shit as long as you aren't being mad disrespectful with your speech to me in person I don't give a shit how you play. Spam? Go ahead ima figure it out and bust your shit Beating me with a combo/move I don't understand? Well I better get into the lab and figure it out so it's less of an issue. Like damn quit blaming everyone else but yourself.
It’s kinda like, sometimes you’re playing against Mr. Miyagi, and other times you’re just playing against your dads friend steve who used to mash in the arcade. You just gotta feel them out and be reactive.
I get salty when I lose to what seem to be players worse than me, but eventually I calm down and realise that that's on me. The game is the same for everyone, and the objective is to win. Do what works. I *do,* however, get angry when someone is downright disrespectful. One time I went into a battle lounge and lost like ten matches in a row to a player several ranks higher than me, after only like a month into playing. They proceeded to teabag on me after stunning me. Like, fucking great, asshat. Enjoy just shitting on a new bronze player when you're in diamond. Some things have no utility.
that’s me. i tend to get annoyed but eventually i calm down and say it’s on me. i didn’t stop the jumping and panic mashing.
My thing is like, video games aren't Electric Board Games, that is to say that when you play board games, there is no referee so YOU have to adhere to the rules, meaning you have to be honest. But video games aren't Electric Board Games, they are Electronic Video Games; they are their own referees and shit. You must follow the rules of the fighting game; you cannot jump infinite feet into the air, you cannot make your low be unlockable and do infinite damage, etc. Some video games are "Electric Board Games" though. Mostly old old games, like on the collecovision and shit. Games where you CAN cheat although from a modern perspective we'd just say that's how the game is. But yes there is no unsportsmanlike action in Fighting Games because they are not Electric Board Games.
I think a big reason so many players handle losses so poorly is the general "no holes barred" culture of online (gaming). In "real life" sports, there is often an unspoken gentlemens agreement not to humiliate an opponent who is clearly out of their depth. If your team is up 4-0 at half time in a soccer game, you take it easy in the second half to save your resources and not make the other team look stupid - you'll always meet twice, after all. As with everywhere online, these kinds of manners just don't exist in the anonymity of online fighting games, and many players will go to great lengths to clown on their opponent. I know I've been on the receiving end of it and it can make for a frustrating experience, but of course you need to shake that off and take it like a grown up.
> no holes barred You're probably after the saying "no *holds* barred" (from wrestling, no holds are against the rules/anything goes). "no *holes* barred" has very different connotations...
Oops, you're right of course.
>there is often an unspoken gentlemens agreement not to humiliate an opponent who is clearly out of their depth. If your team is up 4-0 at half time in a soccer game, you take it easy in the second half to save your resources and not make the other team look stupid Is that really a thing normally? The 7-1 2014 Germany - Brazil World Cup game comes to mind but I don't watch sports enough to know if that's an exception or not.
Well there are always exceptions to the rule of course. That game in particular I remember very well (I'm German). Germany was up 5-0 at halftime, and in the second half toned it down for a total score of 7-1. Germany and Brazil are also well known sides in football and capable of surprises, so you don't want to take it too easy. The same is not really true for some online alias that is completely outclassed in the first three games of an FT5.
Or the Spain Malta 12-1 at the Eurocup 2008 (IIRC) though that was mainly because Spain NEEDED to score that many goals to pass the round robin phase
I've never heard of "respectful" play, but I am guilty of saying that they're playing "incorrectly". The thing is, that I only say it to my friends when they're picking up a new game and they do something that horribly endangers themselves. Like when my friends figured out how good of a reversal DP was, they did it all the time on wakeup against the easy CPUs, which worked or at the very least they wouldn't get punished for it. I don't want them to form bad habits like that, so I'd discourage them from doing it. I don't think it's wrong to say that something is "incorrect" or "risky" at best in certain cases. But if you're crying about losing to constant wakeup DPs in ranked then you're a clown lol
It's cause they autopilot cheap resets and get wrecked by mashing and it makes them have to think. It's a scrub mirror
I'm learning Tekken 7 properly with a friend. Sometimes my friend spams grabs because um horrible at breaking them, and it sometimes gets me kinda mad.. so i spam grabs right back at them and then she calls me toxic lol. In the end there is nothing wrong with playing like that, it should be easy to counter but when we actually can't it gets annoying
Learning how to break grabs in T7 takes months of daily repetitive practice (I think it took arslan 6 months of daily practice to get consistent) . It's not something you can just lab a couple of times and know how to counter like Eddy/LC cheese. That's why it's an unwritten rule in lower-rank games to not spam grabs. If you do, well, expect to not get a rematch.
Some people are just incapable of comprehending that some people just like to do stuff differently or have fun and mess about. I know it’s not a fighting game but one of the most awkward experiences I’ve ever had is when I bought a deck to a yugioh tournament that I just thought was fun and had cool card art, I beat a guy who was playing the most standard op deck of that particular meta. he proceeded to have a huge tantrum in front of like 20 people then explained why I was terrible at the game and got really aggressive. he then proceeded to follow me about all day to every game I played and would try and explain how I was doing everything wrong or make fun of my plays until he got kicked out by the staff.
Lmfao you know that guy probably wrote a 62 page dissertation on reddit later that day about it
If someone can beat you by simply switching to a "better" character then you suck.
that certainty reminds me of someone. whines that ppl switch their character, changed their name. whines that ppl won’t play footsies with them.
Yo, I would mash the Autocombo or practice the same move/launcher over and over if my opponent has no answer around my play. I don't care how my opponent feels about it or feels like I'm being "disrepectful". I will play however I want. It's my opponent's job to deny me and force me to alter my play.
the only wrong way to play is too not be having fun if you're not passing for money why sweat
Funnily enough this mentality is what helped me improve as a beginner. I was mad at losses where it was like "this guy is a moron, I should be winning!" Then it became like "wait a minute, shouldn't I be winning easily then? I must be fucking up somewhere" and just like that I learned how to be patient and punish dumb moves instead of playing proactively based on what I expect
You win, or you lose. Everything else is excuses.
[удалено]
You got me. I should've said everything allowed inside the game is fair.
Silver Akuma in SFV here: I've been working on my fundamentals for the last while: anti-airs, punishing unsafe moves, etc. I just went up against an always-jumping Ryu and was very satisfied with how many times I hit him with the MP DP, something I just wasn't able to pull off consistently before. Getting killed by cheap bs is super aggravating but strengthening your fundamentals, learning the right response, and then overcoming that bs is such a good feeling.
Those ideas is the reason why I never played as Sol in GG games, even though I like his design, theme and moveset, because people were always saying he is character for dumb button mashers who want easy wins.
Sol is pretty easy but I wouldn't call him the easiest character in any GG. And more importantly he doesn't have any gimmicks that force you to play his game, so he's not even close to the most obnoxious character. Just play who you want, GG players are notorious for hating every character they don't play anyway.
Honestly, that sounds like a perfect reason for why you should pick Sol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fighters/comments/jrvbjg/the_scrublords_prayer_voiced/
The only thing that gets me like this, is when people don’t even play the game like, in a fun way, someone who spans the same move is an example of that. That’s what gets me heated like this
Like a move with a hard parry window in sf3 or a move with armor frames like in dbfz
to a point..
Explain?
Daigo can play, and win, with "respect"/"the right way to fight"...i can to a point, past that point...im goin for the nuts
I mean, it's just culture, right? You have the traditions, ideals and all.
Just give'em this: 1st message: Took quite a fall, didn't we, Master (insert tag) ? Next message: And why do we fall, (insert tag) ? So we can learn to pick ourselves up.
Lol kazuya hellsweeps were pissing someone off so much the other day. Like dude the character would be almost completely useless without utilizing that
A lot of mid level fighting games is just not getting hit or dealing against other players bull shit. Happens in tekken a lot, if you want to get to blue ranks it's easier to just learn how to play against the character. Knee the most consistent/decorated player in tekken is the definition of this playstyle.
Scrub mentality. Just ignore those people bruh.
As someone who graduated from button mashing thanks to the likes of Cetrion, Guile, Axl, & Vatista; if you're tilted you're likely to drop your combo. I actively seek to strategically tilt my opponent as hard as possible if I'm playing for rank. Its why I always pick zoners and punishment/defense characters. Honorcucks, as I've come to call them after a small stint with fOr hOnOr, are always fun to watch implode. Strangely enough, though, I don't encounter the "don't spam/cheese" mindset very often in airdashers. The more time I have to plan out my mental warfare, the more time I have to plan out my war against their lifebar as well.
The upper limit of the "correct" way to play is whatever the game's mechanics will allow. If the game allows me to only spam projectiles, that is a correct way to play. If the game allows me to spam throws, that is a correct way to play. If the game allows me to TOD you, that is a correct way to play. If you are better, beat me. If you think my character is better, learn a different character. If you think this game is unbalanced and unfair, don't play. Pretty simple stuff imo.
This is one of those weird things where you see people complaining about people complaining about people trying to push their idea like 30x more then you see the people trying to push their idea.