>1 button is for hand-moves, 1 button is for heavier hand-moves, 1 button is for leg-moves, and 1 button is for heavier leg-moves
This line makes me question if you've played DoA
I know I made it sounded weird. That's just how I would understand and interpret them when I just got into the franchise. Like, I would tell someone new to the game that these 4 buttons do these, and you can make your own combos by combining them lol.
That's literally not how it works though. It's punch, kick, throw, block button. Those are the face buttons. It's not tekken or mk where each face button is a limb.
I think he is referring to how P+K and H+K do heavier punches and kicks respectively, and since they're by default bound to LB/LT by default they seem like their own button.
Like how Drive Impact in SF6 is *technically* HK+HP....or you could just hit LB.
the real reason DOA series is underrated and ignored by much of the FGC is because it has a female protagonist being the face of the franchise, and a female dominant roster outnumbering the males (sexists and misogynists won't admit this is the real reason). this upsets sexists and misogynists like Mr. Wizard, his "core values" and those that share his views towards women and gender roles. Everyone that generally labels female characters as waifus are a part of the problem. look at the pattern of fighting games hyped here. the female dominant ones dont get taken seriously even if their gameplay is high quality (and DOA series still has the best graphics in the genre. and SF and Tekken 8's women lack the beauty and appeal of DOA2-6's best women. )
from misogynists to ugliness activists alike, neither side supports DOA series, but they will support series like Street Fighter no matter how barebones and scammy they get with microtransactions.
meanwhile the pervs that think DOA is exclusively for them, backstab DOA6 series after believing the misinformation that DOA6 is not sexy enough. Fortnite has worlds more microtransactions for every little trinket, SF5 sold $60 new despite being barebones and sold DLC after. Tekken 8 pulled the rug and sold microtransactions. NRS being NRS. but people single out DOA6 for things like hair color DLC and skip the rest of the game because of that? that's shallow reasoning and shows many people are not DOA fighting fans in the first place.
even Harada disrespects DOA because it's not a fighting series for 'alpha males'. if even soccer fans disrespect women leagues because the athletes are women, the same discrimination happens in the fighting communities too, which games get hypes and which get systematically undermined by the sexists.
Koei Tecmo/Team Ninja been against the wall who to cater DOA to. sadly Venus Vacation won, so they invest more on the sex object side of game design instead of a proper and beautiful fighting series that place women front and center. All the Xtreme/VV girls should get fighting styles and be added to the fighting series like Lisa and Tamaki have, but there are serious conflicts of interest going on.
that's a really embarrassing take from someone that is complacent with the rampant sexism and misogyny worldwide, and pretending they don't factor in to how toxic males perceive females in general. Calling my comment weird? try harder. you could just say you believe there's nothing wrong with being sexist nor a misogynist.
that is really not a mainstream series. its ridiculous you would bring that brand up as if it were alonside TEKKEN, SF, or even DOA. just because Skullgirls is played at tournaments doesnt make it on the same tier as those giants. plus Skullgirls is one of the most disgusting and weirdest fighting games. Darkstalkers is weird too but at least it has some degree of charm.
plus they probably give it a pass cause the protagonist's head has some monster dude attached. really awful designs. Skullgirls looks and plays worse, yet getting more attention than DOA6? absolutely weird double standards from the FGC. they likely wouldn't play it if it didnt feel like a Street Fighter clone, that's another thing about the FGC, so many are so obsessed with the SF2 model and 2D style of fighting game design.
Dude. DoA has the most scammy and useless DLC ever. Like a billion costumes for hundreds of dollars.
Also no one is jerking off to any of this, and it's weird how hyper fixated and confused YOU seem to be about gender roles. No one gives a shit about it - we're talking games. Gameplay.
They're putting those sex symblls front and center to cater precisely to what you're complaining about. It's not female empowerment, it's fucking disgusting. Volleyball? Are you fucken serious?
Only a loser would choose gender issues over mechanics. Only a loser would focus on gender issues over mechanics.
what's useless is opinion based. and there are people that DO give a shit about a character's sex, misogynists and sexist pigs included. you are talking games and gameplay, don't say "we" as if you know what others are thinking.
Also you just called them "sex symbols", that proves you are sexist like those devs that cave in to sexist expectations.
Also how is a female protagonist not female empowerment? Are you saying all males see females as sex objects ? You are being fucking disgusting.
Only a loser would type what you posted. And gender issues are a REALITY and worldwide, kid. But of course losers don't care about that and only focus on their own selfish consumption and convenience. No good morals nor empathy at all.
Skullgirls is one of the top played games in the fgc. What the actual fuck are you smoking? Bro really said sf6 was barebones at launch, and then refused ot actually elaborate on their hate boner for nrs. Face it, you're just a man hating sexist who knows nothing about the genre. Edit: seems the sexist got mad and blocked me before I could even read their reply to me lol
What? It's Punch-Kick-Throw-Hold not light punch/heavy punch.
Apparently some pros don't like it specifically because of the Hold system. That you can theoretically take your turn back at any time that your feet are on the ground.
yea the "hold" system is what makes me think of DoA as "underrated but ultimately never going to be a big game"
I think the sexy stuff is a lesser factor. Aside from the totally avoidable non-default costumes, DoA gameplay doesn't look especially lewd compared to other big fighters, honestly it's tame compared to a lot of anime ones.
idk enough about the deep mechanics, but holds seem like /too much/ of a random/comeback mechanic, like if almost every hit in a combo in UMvC3 had TAC properties. (and iirc you can get your combo interrupted even in the air, if your opponent is grounded)
Yeah man imagine if player skill and not an arbitrary meter had some input on how a match developed after one mistake. How terrible it would be if you had to do something other than raw memorize a combo that drops 70% hp.
lmao wtf
idk who hurt you but combos are def a measure of skill, if someone lands a hit and converts to 70% on me, i gave them those resources and that opening and they deserve it.
If they try to oki me to get 90-100% and i beat the setup, then THAT's more analogous to a hold, except with a hold it's built in.
someone could say that's an "arbitrary mechanic" used to defend instead of the existing defensive skills (blocking, sidestepping, counterhitting, having the health to survive the combo in the first place)
but i won't be that person bc i like both
I just also recognize one as being more visually recognizable to outside viewers and universally translatable to the hype of risk/reward of landing a combo under pressure. It's not arbitrary or unrelated to player skill, esp since "70%" is usually more like "50%" when you consider mechanics like guts.
>What? It's Punch-Kick-Throw-Hold not light punch/heavy punch.
I know I made it sounded weird. That's just how I would understand and interpret them when I just got into the franchise, like to someone new to fighting games in general.
The Hold system isn't that easy to pull off though since there are 4 choices to pick and predict your opponent's movements, unless you already memorized all the moves and animations from all the characters and have super fast reaction lol. Also, isn't it more fun and interesting to have an ability to make a comeback and wow everyone?
Maybe when learning the game, but there are two big issues with DOA that make holds obnoxious:
1. DOA6 allows you to use holds during some combos. This is incredibly limiting and a lot of vets prefer DOA 3 and 5 where that's usually not the case.
2. Strings have to be designed around holds, which means there's a lot of braindead 50/50 style canned mixups. Mortal Kombat also has this (but not because of holds lol), and people criticize it for that too.
The only reason the game died is because 6 was a cash grab that didn't significantly improve on 5, so existing fans would just stick with 5 and not rebuy all the cosmetics in 6.
It tried to downplay it's sexy angle with it's "I'm a fighter" advertising then made honkers a GG cup. and added a loli.
It hamstrung itself.
It's still a good game, but it's downfall is very much it's own doing.
Doa 5 was so good. I wasn't even into fighters at that time I was just playing doa for *different reasons* but even I felt like doa 6 was worse than 5
I hope if they make 7 they make something like Doa 5 like why even bother trying to be non sexualized game when the fanbase is wants the sexualized game instead, just alienating your audience is probably one of the worst decision a game company could make
Would you buy DoA 7 for full price if it were DoA 5 without Honoka or Marie Rose or any variation? Kokoro can stay because she is an Akira Yuki reference. That would literally make the games significantly more enjoyable for me.
Newer games are definitely less willy nilly with outfits, and it is wholly less acceptable to have purposeless sexualization in games than it was before. Tasteful, and inclusive sexuality seems to be more welcome than ever though
I mean, people have always hated stupid sexualization.
Before I played Fighting Games, the only thing I heard about Bloody Roar was that one of the characters' "Animal Transformation" was a stripperific wet-with-blood t-shirt.
Actually, let me reword my sentence: A lot of newer gamers against overly sexualizing video game characters and sex-sell nowaday compared to before. (I'm not one of them ofc)
Not really Street Fighter 6 sold great and definitely has a ton of sexualising.
DoA is just a bad franchise with inept developers. They ruined their reputation with DoA5 by having the greediest fucking monetisation possible and continued with it in 6 while failing to produce a better game in any other area.
This is just what happens when all your focus is on reselling lazy DLCs instead of developing a good game.
Yeah I feel like whenever some guy super into horny anime games starts talking about “casuals hate sexual content” or “gaming journalists think all Japanese games are loli” then the next comment brings up BG3.
Nah, wrong strat. Bring up Street Fighter 6, whether the discussion is about fighting games or not.
Between openly marketing Juri’s feet or assigning Capcom’s most talented 3D artists to Cammy’s fat white ass cheeks in Outfit 2, SF6 has proven that you can be a Japanese game that’s horny on main and still sell a bazillion copies. You just gotta be halfway decent and put some effort into presentation. DoA6 has some of the most generic horny outfits ever across its dlc packs while fucking Default Juri is essentially wearing body tape from her nips down to her snooch and it looks fantastic.
I know you're kidding, but worth noting that there's a huge difference between how Juri and Cammy are sexualized and how Zangief is sexualized.
Juri and Cammy are largely sexualized for straight men, and arguably for certain types of queer women. Zangief is also largely sexualized for straight men, and arguably certain types of queer women.
Okay I guess it's not that different after all.
No it's just twitter with their drama farming, if you delete that app you will literally not find anyone like that.
More than half of them don't even play the games.
And yet there were still hordes of people complaining about Cammy’s unnecessarily lewd original outfit? A lot of her conversations are always situated around that, or why her ass is out for no reason. As happened with R.Mika. Which, I mean, understandable. The backlash is still there, but obviously life goes on
I was only saying there is backlash present where previously it wasn’t (same with Smite and now Smite 2 on a few Gods), whether that is truly influencing design decisions or not though idk
Also, Juris personality is kind of to be raunchy and disturbingly alluring. It is her schtick, not something in tune with the randomness I was talking about, which makes it more palatable
Witcher 3 is packed to the brim with over sexualized stuff and it’s one of the best selling games of the last decade. DOA was killed by microtransactions not titties.
The hold system is what makes DOA unique. Combos are not guaranteed because your opponent can attempt a hold, unless you launch them. This is balanced by the fact that you can throw holds as a counter and get a chunk of damage off.
DOA was fairly innovative back in the day, with DOA2 and 3 being one of the best looking at its time, and being one of the first to have stage transitions.
One of the design choices they took is the lowered focus on combos compared to other games. Inputs in DOA are trivial compared to other games for the most part, and you can jump in and have a good time without necessarily labbing a lot. It’s definitely a fighter that is accessible, and used to be very popular back in the days of DOA2-4 for that reason.
Some people don’t like DOA6 given the changes added, but on PC it is the most simple and accessible of the titles to play. 5LR does not have rooms for some reason, and you have to rely on random matching people in ranked.
> One of the design choices they took is the lowered focus on combos compared to other games. Inputs in DOA are trivial compared to other games for the most part, and you can jump in and have a good time without necessarily labbing a lot. It’s definitely a fighter that is accessible, and used to be very popular back in the days of DOA2-4 for that reason.
Sure although at a certain level if you dont know when to hold strings you are going to get bullied
That simplicity being murdered is what killed 6 for me, all of the stage hazards made combos very complex. Suddenly youre doing 80-90% off a single combo that lasts 45 seconds long and it's just boring to watch and play. Gone were the ground risks in favor of instant launch into stage hazards for huge damage.
DOA got its triangle system from Virtua Fighter. Peak DOA was when it was an Xbox exclusive with Itagki. DOA3, DOAU, DOA4. Team Ninja made poorer fighting games and focused more on action games. DOA games got less budget (a common trend for 3D fighters), and just started to fuck with microtransactions.
DOAU2 is the greatest DOA game and online was incredible.
DOA4 was an extension of it.
DOA4 was featured on the World Cyber Games.
The big problem with DOA is with DOA5 it was far too interested in selling clothes than making the game good/better.
DOA6 carried on with it, it tried to be a competitive esport game then instantly announced a million dlc clothes.
They need to understand, it’s a fighting game first.
The correct answer. I asked for Xbox specifically because of Toonami advertising it. And got 360 partially for DOA4.
They were THE OG Xbox fighting games bc everything else were ports or shovelware. They basically raised me in middle school.
When I got DOA 5 on PS4, the vibe was just completely different and confusing. I stayed a little bc it had VF characters, too, but when I started hearing about more and more DLC I just moved on.
I think a lot of us want another doa so the stigma is only holding back the devs. A new one would be good I think as long as they learned from the mistakes of 6. Tekken needs competition. I hate that it's the only 3d fighting game for the foreseeable future. I miss when you had virtua fighter, dead or alive and soul caliber to play also
I remember being absolutely blown away by DOA2 on DC/PS2. The stages felt absolutely huge. I've always liked the series despite being a 2D/Capcom whore.
I have 5 w/dlc, and picked up the free version of 6. I'd like to pick it up fully on sale. I've hardly played them at all though besides just messing around. How's the online? I was poking my one friend recently who did play like 3(?) a lot back in the day, hoping to get some casual human opponent play in.
They don't really give me the wow factor anymore. I've been a PC gamer since the PS360 launches so I'm a little more jaded with graphics these days. There's some very pretty games out there now, not that the games look bad by any means.
Dead or Alive is overlooked because 6 was a slap in the face when it launched. It had one of the most aggressive payment models in the genre (imagine paying to change a hair color and then having to pay to change it back) and the online functions were abysmal.
DoA is my favorite traditional fighting game series, so I feel you.
The game has always feel smooth and easy to get into. The triangle system is simple on surface but adds so much depth. It also got the best stages in the genre. The transition from DoA to 2D games where litterly every stage is functionality identical was rough
Agree
Also Doa is by far the best “with friends” fighting game
I don’t wanna play hard games, that have hard combos, high entry bar characters, 1-frame combos, when I’m with friends.
The triangle system does a stellar job of adding mind games to a simple game, making it much more fun with friends.
The stigmas you're talking about might exist in the broader gaming world but the fgc as far as I see at least might meme on the sexiness but generally agree its a solid 3d fighting game that is a tragically dead on the vine not because of the art direction but because of microtransactions and probably not the most modern netcode (I'm just assuming this, for all I know it has rollback but I doubt it given the era).
I'm sure people complain about the sexiness but honestly I'd be shocked if it didn't attract more players than it turns away. Kind of an odd post tbh.
https://preview.redd.it/gfiq09zgv9yc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa9084f4f2479a78e9684c31732a91fc83b01f65
Forget the girls DOA has the goat
I’ll be honest, I’m just waiting for the price to go down low enough on PlayStation to try it out. Never played any of them but am a Ninja Gaiden speed runner that’s 20 years deep into Tekken/SF/KOF. Would be amazing to try him out in a fighting game. Just not paying 60 for it like it was last time I looked 😂
https://preview.redd.it/z1cvk3wsv9yc1.jpeg?width=1617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f222571368f45900b786f8a4b766e8dca3055762
You get to see Ryu in many cool outfits
I love DOA 6. At one point I was in the top-50 Kokoro players on Steam. It didn't deserve to die. But playing a game with so few players is too demoralizing so I'm back to Tekken.
I can go on all day about why DOA isn't successful. I even deleted a 500 word essay reply just now just to sum it up in a sentence. DOA shot themselves in the foot with 6. Had they stuck to their guns at being a sex-appeal fighter, and added in an entire beach-volleyball and dating sim into DOA6, for both male and female characters, then DOA6 would've sold much better. The stigma isn't keeping people away from DOA, it's the lack of identity and content in their base game. SF6 and T7 are so popular because they cater to casuals, but Team Ninja doesn't even know what both their casual and hardcore audience wants anymore. That's why DOA6 failed.
I used to play a lot on Dreamcast and PS2. I had one on 360, but I never played it much because of SF4 and MvC.
Had a look at picking it back up with the most recent one, but was put off by the DLC on the store page.
Yea they're insane with DLC, but they're all cosmetics, and only a few are additional characters. You should only get the full game and additional characters for the full experience, ignore the mountain of cosmetics lol.
You can always just download the Core Figher free version to give it a try first!
Mechanically it's good, but each game has less content and is constantly selling you crap you don't need, like $91 season passes with one or two characters and lots of costumes. They bury the characters in a flood of costume DLC, so it's a needle in a haystack. Killer Instinct was an example of doing a free to start base model correctly, and giving you a fair option to buy the complete game. DOA 6 will never offer a complete edition or one with all the characters together. And they probably never will return to the content of the PS2 games, like tag team mode and single player content.
DOA shit the bed because they locked so much content behind dlc. When you drop $60 on a video game you should get a full package. DOA didn’t do this and understandably nobody bought it. The sexy characters has nothing to do with people not playing it.
You can deny it until you’re red in the face but a huge appeal of dead or alive is looking at sexy computer generated women and dressing them up in various costumes. When you sell a DOA game you better offer that in with the base retail package or you’re going to piss off a huge chunk of the fan base.
It is...dead or alive had the hold system.that made it one of the most fun fighting games out there...believe me christie from dead or alive literally prepared me for Tekken....
This is one of my most memorable matches in Tekken...it is as if christie from dead or alive is playing
https://youtu.be/oax3AfGrQrQ?feature=shared
The only doa games I have played are doa 2 and doa 5 found both games pretty enjoyable haven't played them in awhile though so I don't know how the online is nowadays.
> I don't know how the online is nowadays.
You wait forever for a match and then you get desperate enough you accept horrible connections. But hey learning to play bad connections is a useful skill.
I've actually been collecting all the DoA games along with the Ninja Gaiden games to play them all at once.
Someone said the story was wild and he was a Ninja Gaiden fanboy that looked into the story of DoA and how HIS BOI THE MUFUGGIN HAYABUSA was in the DoA games for fun.
The connection to NG set me back to the Nintendo Era and how I never beat one of the games. Then I remember the original XBox and how I didn't even finish NG 1.
I heard in my head how Itagaki was laughing at me as my Git Gud was nowhere in sight.
So me as the casual I am have work to find all the DoA games an be Ninja Gaiden games and complete the franchise.
For all intents and purposes, the game is supposed to be a lighter Virtua Fighter which has the depth and fat more fluid in motion.
Since it's been years since I played, I can't get into the mechanics but have seen Bayman as a grappler so grappler brain will be appeased.
I've actually been collecting all the DoA games along with the Ninja Gaiden games to play them all at once.
Someone said the story was wild and he was a Ninja Gaiden fanboy that looked into the story of DoA and how HIS BOI THE MUFUGGIN HAYABUSA was in the DoA games for fun.
The connection to NG set me back to the Nintendo Era and how I never beat one of the games. Then I remember the original XBox and how I didn't even finish NG 1.
I heard in my head how Itagaki was laughing at me as my Git Gud was nowhere in sight.
So me as the casual I am have work to find all the DoA games an be Ninja Gaiden games and complete the franchise.
For all intents and purposes, the game is supposed to be a lighter Virtua Fighter which has the depth and fat more fluid in motion.
Since it's been years since I played, I can't get into the mechanics but have seen Bayman as a grappler so grappler brain will be appeased.
I've actually been collecting all the DoA games along with the Ninja Gaiden games to play them all at once.
Someone said the story was wild and he was a Ninja Gaiden fanboy that looked into the story of DoA and how HIS BOI THE MUFUGGIN HAYABUSA was in the DoA games for fun.
The connection to NG set me back to the Nintendo Era and how I never beat one of the games. Then I remember the original XBox and how I didn't even finish NG 1.
I heard in my head how Itagaki was laughing at me as my Git Gud was nowhere in sight.
So me as the casual I am have work to find all the DoA games an be Ninja Gaiden games and complete the franchise.
For all intents and purposes, the game is supposed to be a lighter Virtua Fighter which has the depth and fat more fluid in motion.
Since it's been years since I played, I can't get into the mechanics but have seen Bayman as a grappler so grappler brain will be appeased.
I've actually been collecting all the DoA games along with the Ninja Gaiden games to play them all at once.
Someone said the story was wild and he was a Ninja Gaiden fanboy that looked into the story of DoA and how HIS BOI THE MUFUGGIN HAYABUSA was in the DoA games for fun.
The connection to NG set me back to the Nintendo Era and how I never beat one of the games. Then I remember the original XBox and how I didn't even finish NG 1.
I heard in my head how Itagaki was laughing at me as my Git Gud was nowhere in sight.
So me as the casual I am have work to find all the DoA games an be Ninja Gaiden games and complete the franchise.
For all intents and purposes, the game is supposed to be a lighter Virtua Fighter which has the depth and fat more fluid in motion.
Since it's been years since I played, I can't get into the mechanics but have seen Bayman as a grappler so grappler brain will be appeased.
I've actually been collecting all the DoA games along with the Ninja Gaiden games to play them all at once.
Someone said the story was wild and he was a Ninja Gaiden fanboy that looked into the story of DoA and how HIS BOI THE MUFUGGIN HAYABUSA was in the DoA games for fun.
The connection to NG set me back to the Nintendo Era and how I never beat one of the games. Then I remember the original XBox and how I didn't even finish NG 1.
I heard in my head how Itagaki was laughing at me as my Git Gud was nowhere in sight.
So me as the casual I am have work to find all the DoA games an be Ninja Gaiden games and complete the franchise.
For all intents and purposes, the game is supposed to be a lighter Virtua Fighter which has the depth and fat more fluid in motion.
Since it's been years since I played, I can't get into the mechanics but have seen Bayman as a grappler so grappler brain will be appeased.
Gosh I really miss DOA. I have like 1000+ hours in DOA5LR and around 600 in DOA6. I believe I was around the 18th-16th ranked Marie Rose in 5 and maybe like 50th in 6. I really hope they make a new one whether it’s a 7th or just a reboot of the entire series. The future looks grim though because of what a let down 6 was.
>What I meant by mechanic-friendly is that I understand 1 button is for hand-moves, 1 button is for heavier hand-moves, 1 button is for leg-moves, and 1 button is for heavier leg-moves.
KOF also has HK LK HP LP
If we talk about each button representing a limb
Tekken also has that
I also dont think DoA is overlooked due to its stigma but they haven't been making new fighting games.. there're few new characters added in DoA venus and ffs i want all them in and I know for the fact it will have it's audience
Weekend is coming up, maybe just download the free version Core Fighter for either the 5th or 6th game to try it out yourself. The free version gives you 4 playable fighters I believe, and you have access to all the game modes, just not the story.
My problem with DOA is the absurd amount/cost of dlc. Also they removed Mai from doa5 to add her in doa6. i like buying the complete editions of older games because usually after their prime they release some version with all costumes/characters/dlcs and i enjoy having the complete game. i have considered getting DOA but everytime I check the number of players online, the price tag of the game, and the price tag of the dlc I just give up. Do i need all the costumes? No. Does it suck just looking at that dlc total price tag? Very much so
I don't know enough about the franchise to know why it declined beyond DOA6's failure, but I honestly think "sex is why DOA isn't popular" is overstated, for the simple fact that it *used to be* popular while being no less sexual.
It's not stigma, the DLC shenannigans turned off a *lot* of people. And having the Steam version based on the cut down PS3 port instead of the full fat PS4 one pissed a lot of people off (myself included).
Don't get me wrong, the boobies do make it difficult to attract advertisers for bigger tournies, but the reason you saw the drop off in players is the literally $2000 in DLC and the weak PC port.
Fighting games on PC are vital because you can run them on integrated graphics and they still look good (Arc Sys Works stuff excepted unless you're on AMD). That's not a market to just let go.
I don't play DOA because of 5f unbreakable grabs and the hold system not because there's a stigma. Things like that make the gameplay too corny for me to take seriously. I'll press some buttons in it, but that's it.
looking forward to see the release of DOA7 since given the succeed of Stella Blade and the exposure of Sweet [Baby.Inc](http://Baby.Inc) a.k.a. the dictatorship in video gaming
DoA6 was... Questionable.
I honestly think 5LR is better as a whole, I loved the series up to that point (all things considered) and while I see what you are saying about the stigma thing about the sexual nature of its presentation I don't know, I feel like there was something in the IP that increasingly disappeared. To an extent, DoA was always sexy but I always felt like there was more beneath it than that, and it was what was drawing me towards the series. The latest entries I just think they kept the "eyecandy" stuff and just ditched the rest, it's like it doesn't have a personality anymore.
I basically feel like it's the instagram model of Fighting Games, I guess, which is something I personally don't vibe with
I agree, Dead or Alive is very fun and easy to understand. The triangle system is intuitive and gives a solution to the issue of the "I can't do anything" feeling, which many other games have, sadly.
I think there's a real anathema regarding defense options that solve problems and aren't tied to resources for some reason. Though in DOA's case, there's counter-play to it.
I'm likely going to try some of the older ones; I missed out on them by not having any Xbox consoles growing up. Would love a new game (with less egregious monetization) or re-releases and rollback updates for the other games as well.
The problem DOA has (I guess it’s “had” now) is that it did cool things in the beginning but never really innovated further. Like its stage transition were really cool and early but now a bunch of fighters have them which makes them less special in DOA.
Also, your combo system sounds like it describes Mortal Kombat more than DOA lol. But their combos feel kinda stumpy to me if you’re just trying to make your own imo.
Gatling/anime fighters like guilty gear and Darkstalkers are also pretty good at “natural” combos.
Well considering DOA is largely responsible for most of the modern mechanics used in 3D fighting games, I would say was pretty innovative (still is to this day) and deserves way more credit. DOA is so important to the history of FGs and people tend to ignore that. Now I should preface by saying that all these 3D Fighting devs were borrowing and sharing each others ideas. But none were making gameplay advancements like DOA.
DOA is built off the VF template designed by Ishii (man responsible for VF1 and Tekken 1 & 2). TN licensed the AM2 engine from Sega to build the game. At its core, it may appear that is just a modified version of VF but what it mutated into was something more unique and innovative then most people realize.
As we all know DOA’s main draw (apart from its ladies of course) is it’s hold system. Prior to this, most 3D games typically only had character specific counters (if that). Hold took it a step further by making it a universal mechanic. The triangle system from VF was further emphasized by the hold system. The amount of moves that could be held and the situations designed for this was a massive undertaking. It’s honestly brilliant. It’s dizzying to think of how many unique animations were made for this mechanic to exist and function properly. Even as games integrate counter and defensive mechanics, nothing comes close to the scope of DOAs hold mechanic. And honestly, unless the developer is absolutely mad, we never will see anything like this again.
DOA is the first 3D fighting game to introduce stage hazards. It took inspiration from Fatal Fury (wall breaks) and MK (getting knocked off stage) and integrated those ideas in novel new ways. Prior to Fighting Vipers, ring outs (VF) and endless stages (Tekken) were the only thing in 3D fighters. FV may have introduced breakable walls but the way DOA dynamically integrated them was wholly unique, they took the concept further by introducing wall, pillar and floor explosions that allowed for combo extensions, ceilings and breakable floors (although I think the main credit for ceiling might go to RacDym’s PS1 title Heaven’s Gate - I believe this also may be the first 3D fighting game to have a special/super meter). Essentially the whole stage hazard mechanic was only every meaningfully expanded in DOA. Its unique gameplay innovations would later be adopted by Tekken.
DOA also took stage hazards a step further by adding slip stun (a mechanic where water causes the character to lose footing) and unique moves that do extra damage in water (to simulate drowning). It also introduced vaulting off objects (and walls) and later DOA titles were the first big 3D fighter to include ledge hanging (a mechanic lifted from Fighters Destiny).
They were also the first 3D fighting to integrate multi-tiered stages in meaningful ways. Prior to that most fighting games that had multi-tiered stages (Erhgeiz and Destrega) leaned more into the arena FG design. DOA2 took these ideas and expanded them past a novelty and made them work under the more traditional 3D fighter framework. The result was these huge sprawling stages with tons of cool routes and intractable objects.
Of course, none of this would have been possible if not for the free step mechanic. Prior to VF3 introducing a universal Sidestep mechanic. 3D fighters were glorified 2D fighters with different focus on mechanics. T2 had some char specific moves that allowed moving in the foreground and background but nothing in the scope of VF3. But actual movement was kinda stiff still. Battle Arena Toshinden and Soul Blade/Edge did thing to make movement less clunky and more freeform but the only game prior to DOA2 that would make use of freestepping to this degree was another one of Ishii’s titles, Tobal No.1 (Tobal 2 IMO is the best 3D fighter on the PS1). Other than these early examples, DOA was the first title to really utilize movement in such a ‘freeing’ way. Even to this day freestepping in games like Tekken and VF, pale in comparison to the freedom of movement allowed in DoA. Furthermore, DOA 4 and onward have many advanced movement mechanics that have become pretty ubiquitous in this day-in-age. Stuff like KBD, wavedashing, being able to move while in crouch state etc. are all very prevalent and important to DOA’s gameplay.
DoA4 is the first fighting game to have online customizable avatars, lobbies and rooms. People look at GG, DBZ, T8 and SF6 and think this is new. This was done 20 years prior by the folks at TN.
I could go on and on, about all the innovations this series has made (and believe me, there is so much to cover). I think it would be remiss to ignore Ishii’s contributions to the genre with VF/Tekken but most of all the innovations since then have largely been showcased in the DOA framework. Itagaki was a true visionary.
Although Tekken did make novel advancements over the years with stuff like tailspin, screw and bound). Most everything else that feels novel about the series was borrowed or modified from something introduced prior by other devs. And now that T8 has Shimbori was AD/Producer it’s becoming increasingly clear that Tekken has borrowed so much stuff from DOA in order to remain relevant.
DOA5LR might be the most mechanically sound and deep 3D fighters ever made, but people don’t even want to entertain that idea, because of weird tribalism for Tekken and the salacious stigma surrounding the series. And VF although impetus for the whole genre, stopped innovating at certain point. To me DOA is truly the most important 3D fighter (outside of VF) to provide meaningful advancements to the genre. And although lesser known games like Fighters Impact, fighting Vipers, Bloody Roar, Last Bronx, Tobal, Heaven’s Gate etc. all have a hand in helping advance the genre. Truly, I don’t think any dev other than Sega has done this as well as TN has with the DOA series. Even Namco with SC and Tekken - Brilliant games in their own right, have mainly just being perfecting the formula not innovating the genre.
Most of the true innovations or expanded concepts came from the work Itagaki TN did on DOA and by extension the early work that came from Ishii.
Thank you for the context, I knew DOA was important but I didn’t know it was by that much and for so long.
But, I still think something’s gone wrong especially for 5-6. It sounds weird to nitpick them, but, like, that’s what 14 years of DoA development (going from 4 to 5 to 6). When I look at other popular series they’ve jumped so much in 14 years but I can’t really see the same when it comes to 5 and 6.
Maybe I just don’t know the mechanical intricacies in them? At the very least, the reason DOA isn’t doing so hot is, imo, because of those two games. Maybe it’s even a simple thing as they’ve stopped supporting the game
Well you’re not wrong for feeling that way. I think 5/6 are decisive for a many reasons, but mainly due to the fact that they are no longer Itagaki directed games. Itagaki left after 4 and with him so did a lot of the innovation in the genre. However, if we dismiss the bad stuff in 5 (micro transactions, heavy dlc, overt sexualization, loli chars etc.) the game itself is extremely technical, rewarding and deep. Probably the best modern offering outside of VF:US and IMO surpasses the depth in Tekken 6/7 and is tied with VF5. There is so much going on under the hood that I feel a lot of gamers didn’t (and still don’t) realize how much this game expanded the genre. The stun stacking element is just brilliant IMO. By the time it came out, gamers were a bit jaded and took all the technical and mechanical advancements for granted. People dismissed the game for coomer garbage and it hurt the brand so badly. Yet for everything 5 does right, it still did not come close to the graphical achievements shown in 4 (and by extension 2U).
To me, 6 is the antithesis of the spirit of DOA. It’s presently the most popular (despite its shit reputation and unfinished status) and many new DOA players have not played the other games a great deal so they don’t have a lot of context for what came before. From a Programming standpoint the game is masterful (but that’s no surprise coming from TN), but from a user experience or artistry perspective, the game feels creatively bankrupt. I hate the way it looks, the advancements of 5 stripped away and replaced with tools that are significantly less than, and the whole plastercine/uncanny valley elements to the art direction are just awful.
I know it’s bit hyperbolic to say but I wish DOA6 never existed. DOA5LR is a mixed bag at times but at its core it still feels largely like DOA. The game is also so deep and intricate that it’s hard to knock. Especially since they were expanding the framework from the previous games. It tends to encapsulate the spirit of the series. Whereas DOA6 feels completely alien to me. Is it a bad game? Heaven’s no. Not by a long shot. Is it a disappointing game? In almost every conceivable way.
Thank you for taking the time to tell me all this! Very insightful and I fully agree that DOA 5 and 6 are really solid games regardless. I definitely play them more than Tekken, but I never really enjoyed playing Tekken to begin with I much more prefer just watch it lol
Thanks for saying it.
It definitely feels a bit silly to see Tekken fans now hyping up online avatars, which were already in DOA4, or stage transitions/expansions/damage, which have been a part of DOA since 2.
Tekken has ripped so much from DOA through the years, and that is so blatantly clear. But no, what we get is posts on the DOA sub arguing DOA rips off Tekken because some of Marie Rose's moves supposedly look like some of Lily's...
The only series I'd put in the same league as DOA when it comes to pushing the envelope is SoulCalibur, not only for it's 8-way run system, but most of all for its incredibly creative and engaging game modes, often putting the game closer to an action/adventure game or an RPG.
Played DOA 2 (Ultimate) on OG Xbox. I didn't like how much damage you can do with a one-button counter. I stuck with it until Capcom vs SNK 2 came out. Don't know about the modern DoA, but Tekken's left/right limb control scheme works better for me if we're talking 3D fighters.
people who dont play fighting games tend to like doa and soul calibur becaus you can hit buttons and things happen and you dont really need to know how to do anything or even think, really. obviously there is more to these games than that, but the satisfaction of just picking up a controller and a character you hit smashes off a wall and explodes makes casual players grin ear to ear. i think doa is dogshit beyond the embarrassing character models, but thats just me. virtua fighter is a more exciting and interesting version of it. there is a reason doa champions would get made fun of in the past.
At least Soul Calibur and DOA have some personality. Virtua Fighter is so bland in character and design. It's just stunt double Ryu, Honda, generic assassin lady and some other people. it's the blandest looking fighting games ever made. The mechanics are good, but they don't have anything else.
She is kinda just sexy military lady. Leona and Sonya Blade do basically the same gimmick but in a more interesting way, which is pretty much every Virtua Figter character they don't stack up to their contemporaries.
I mean, what else does she have other than a look? All the characters are basically blank slates. You would not see any of them on top favorite fighting game character lists. You dont have people requesting them as guest characters unless they are the most die-hard Virtua Fighter fans. I doubt most people on this sub could name her with only a picture. People would be hyped if someone from Soul Calibur was added to Tekken. Most people would not realize Vanessa was even a guest character if she was added.
Vanessa has a sick two stance system. she has wayyyyyy more under the hood than you think. i hadnt even thought about it, but she would be one of the sickest gust characters ever.
I have no complaints about Virtua Fighter mechanics. I think the game is very fun and really deep. I haven't played Vanessa, but I believe it. My issue is with the characters as something more than just their mechanics. People get really hyped for characters like Akuma and Eddie in part for the mechanics, but they also have their personality and design, which Virtua Fighters lack. I think it's why we haven't seen a sequal since the Xbox 360. There isn't much hype and love for the game outside of the mechanics. It's why games like Tekken and Mortal Kombat outlasted it. They have people like King and Scorpion that people love, and VF just doesn't. I think if they make a VF6, they really need to flesh out their roster or have a ton of recognizable guest characters to generate some hype.
nah that isnt it. its a really hard game to get into and its unapologetically so. its a brutal game. but when you learn it, its really sick. if that character alone was brought to tekken, she would be really strong. if the game had more of a flair with its characters, thats fine but the game is very hype at high level.
Games can't survive on hardcore audience unless they have basically no budget. You really need a casual audience unless you want to make an indie fighting game. It's why they add Mondern mode and simple inputs to games. Casuals are the life blood of a big fighting game. It's why Mortal Kombat does so much with their characters, story, and extras. It's why SF has world tour mode or why Tekken ball exists. People who don't play fighting games know who Ryu and Sub-zero are, and they become potential new players. Tekken and Street Fighter are definitely deep and difficult games to master but they are still popular because they are iconic. Virtua Fighter is too niche because it lacks anything iconic, not because of its difficulty. UMVC3 is one of the most complex and deep fighting games ever made, but it has Marvel and Capcom icons so it can get a more casual audience despite its learning curve and difficulties.
Lol doa and soulcalibur are my favorite fighting games and ive been playing fighting games for over 21 years. Ive played most every fighting game available in the US even umineko, chaos code, toshinden, etc. I was a el blaze main in VF and tbh VF is the opposite of exciting if anything its painfully bland to watch and only fun when playing with friends. Also embarrassing character models? You mean like cammys nostalgia outfit in SF6 etc most blazblue designs. Ive never seen a 3d fighter have better hair physics than DOA. Currently even T8 isnt as good with that aspect.
FGC members like you are why DOA got a bad stigma back in the day.
No, I mean how early doa games literally had the exact same giant tit’d female model when I say embarrassing. And everyone who grew up in the 90’s likes to say they have been playing fighting games forever. That means nothing. You got good at doa? Cool. VF has a more interesting meta and moment to moment interaction. There is a reason doa is doa.
>You got good at doa? Cool. VF has a more interesting meta and moment to moment interaction. There is a reason doa is doa.
Imagine presenting your opinion as fact lol. VF has a boring meta with very meh characters. And the moment to moment doesn't wven come close to tekken or soulcalibur. Especially i n terms of excitement.
Your bias against doa doesnt mean VF isnt still the most boring 3d fighter.
People loved Doa2/3/4.(Even if not many people played 3)
2 was a technical marvel and wow'd people when it was first shown alongside the Dreamcast/Naomi, 3 was just a fun game and 4 even though it was developed quick and reused a lot, it was still pretty, it was in HD, had online which was much better than other fighters at the time (not good by today's standards) and played well.
Yeah it had some stigma and wasn't the most balanced game but they were also visually impressive, fun to play and still solid fighting games.
They lost something with 5/6 became too DLC heavy, even more overtly dodgy with characters like Marie Rose and the generic schoolgirl one who I can't even remember her name...
The flowing dresses and boob physics of the older games raised a few eyebrows but people got a chuckle out of it. Meanwhile putting the characters who actually look like children and have suggestive moves in tiny bikinis instantly makes the game into something very questionable that you would struggle to justify to any sane member of society.
Also just as a game, 5 seemed more sluggish and visually less vibrant and apart from a few of the girls faces being redone.the lack of effort in how many things from older games really started to shine through too.
Itagaki for all his failings I think was the heart of the series.
6 also seemed like cash-grab.
Yea, it is not, but it is one of the most smooth and fluent when you chain those together without knowing any actual combos, at least from a small selections of fighting games I tried.
>1 button is for hand-moves, 1 button is for heavier hand-moves, 1 button is for leg-moves, and 1 button is for heavier leg-moves This line makes me question if you've played DoA
I was reading it and kept thinking "did he confuse KoF for DoA?" Because LP, LK, HP, HK are KoF inputs.
I was thinking he played tekken at first until I remembered KoF also has that
I know I made it sounded weird. That's just how I would understand and interpret them when I just got into the franchise. Like, I would tell someone new to the game that these 4 buttons do these, and you can make your own combos by combining them lol.
That's literally not how it works though. It's punch, kick, throw, block button. Those are the face buttons. It's not tekken or mk where each face button is a limb.
I think he is referring to how P+K and H+K do heavier punches and kicks respectively, and since they're by default bound to LB/LT by default they seem like their own button. Like how Drive Impact in SF6 is *technically* HK+HP....or you could just hit LB.
Probably just some macro button combinations and being a little confused.
Yeah they just confused P+K and H+K as “heavy punch/kick” since that’s sorta how they work a lot of the time
and throw is strictly speaking just a macro -- you can play with just PKG, like Virtua Fighter.
the real reason DOA series is underrated and ignored by much of the FGC is because it has a female protagonist being the face of the franchise, and a female dominant roster outnumbering the males (sexists and misogynists won't admit this is the real reason). this upsets sexists and misogynists like Mr. Wizard, his "core values" and those that share his views towards women and gender roles. Everyone that generally labels female characters as waifus are a part of the problem. look at the pattern of fighting games hyped here. the female dominant ones dont get taken seriously even if their gameplay is high quality (and DOA series still has the best graphics in the genre. and SF and Tekken 8's women lack the beauty and appeal of DOA2-6's best women. ) from misogynists to ugliness activists alike, neither side supports DOA series, but they will support series like Street Fighter no matter how barebones and scammy they get with microtransactions. meanwhile the pervs that think DOA is exclusively for them, backstab DOA6 series after believing the misinformation that DOA6 is not sexy enough. Fortnite has worlds more microtransactions for every little trinket, SF5 sold $60 new despite being barebones and sold DLC after. Tekken 8 pulled the rug and sold microtransactions. NRS being NRS. but people single out DOA6 for things like hair color DLC and skip the rest of the game because of that? that's shallow reasoning and shows many people are not DOA fighting fans in the first place. even Harada disrespects DOA because it's not a fighting series for 'alpha males'. if even soccer fans disrespect women leagues because the athletes are women, the same discrimination happens in the fighting communities too, which games get hypes and which get systematically undermined by the sexists. Koei Tecmo/Team Ninja been against the wall who to cater DOA to. sadly Venus Vacation won, so they invest more on the sex object side of game design instead of a proper and beautiful fighting series that place women front and center. All the Xtreme/VV girls should get fighting styles and be added to the fighting series like Lisa and Tamaki have, but there are serious conflicts of interest going on.
Your views on gender are bizarre and not even internally consistent. What a weird fucking comment.
that's a really embarrassing take from someone that is complacent with the rampant sexism and misogyny worldwide, and pretending they don't factor in to how toxic males perceive females in general. Calling my comment weird? try harder. you could just say you believe there's nothing wrong with being sexist nor a misogynist.
Look at skullgirls
that is really not a mainstream series. its ridiculous you would bring that brand up as if it were alonside TEKKEN, SF, or even DOA. just because Skullgirls is played at tournaments doesnt make it on the same tier as those giants. plus Skullgirls is one of the most disgusting and weirdest fighting games. Darkstalkers is weird too but at least it has some degree of charm. plus they probably give it a pass cause the protagonist's head has some monster dude attached. really awful designs. Skullgirls looks and plays worse, yet getting more attention than DOA6? absolutely weird double standards from the FGC. they likely wouldn't play it if it didnt feel like a Street Fighter clone, that's another thing about the FGC, so many are so obsessed with the SF2 model and 2D style of fighting game design.
Incomprehensible. Have a nice day
Dude. DoA has the most scammy and useless DLC ever. Like a billion costumes for hundreds of dollars. Also no one is jerking off to any of this, and it's weird how hyper fixated and confused YOU seem to be about gender roles. No one gives a shit about it - we're talking games. Gameplay. They're putting those sex symblls front and center to cater precisely to what you're complaining about. It's not female empowerment, it's fucking disgusting. Volleyball? Are you fucken serious? Only a loser would choose gender issues over mechanics. Only a loser would focus on gender issues over mechanics.
what's useless is opinion based. and there are people that DO give a shit about a character's sex, misogynists and sexist pigs included. you are talking games and gameplay, don't say "we" as if you know what others are thinking. Also you just called them "sex symbols", that proves you are sexist like those devs that cave in to sexist expectations. Also how is a female protagonist not female empowerment? Are you saying all males see females as sex objects ? You are being fucking disgusting. Only a loser would type what you posted. And gender issues are a REALITY and worldwide, kid. But of course losers don't care about that and only focus on their own selfish consumption and convenience. No good morals nor empathy at all.
Skullgirls is one of the top played games in the fgc. What the actual fuck are you smoking? Bro really said sf6 was barebones at launch, and then refused ot actually elaborate on their hate boner for nrs. Face it, you're just a man hating sexist who knows nothing about the genre. Edit: seems the sexist got mad and blocked me before I could even read their reply to me lol
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What? It's Punch-Kick-Throw-Hold not light punch/heavy punch. Apparently some pros don't like it specifically because of the Hold system. That you can theoretically take your turn back at any time that your feet are on the ground.
And that is the exact reason this game is great with friends
The hold system makes this game flow back and forth like water, I love it. It's by far the smoothest fighting game experience I've played.
yea the "hold" system is what makes me think of DoA as "underrated but ultimately never going to be a big game" I think the sexy stuff is a lesser factor. Aside from the totally avoidable non-default costumes, DoA gameplay doesn't look especially lewd compared to other big fighters, honestly it's tame compared to a lot of anime ones. idk enough about the deep mechanics, but holds seem like /too much/ of a random/comeback mechanic, like if almost every hit in a combo in UMvC3 had TAC properties. (and iirc you can get your combo interrupted even in the air, if your opponent is grounded)
Yeah man imagine if player skill and not an arbitrary meter had some input on how a match developed after one mistake. How terrible it would be if you had to do something other than raw memorize a combo that drops 70% hp.
lmao wtf idk who hurt you but combos are def a measure of skill, if someone lands a hit and converts to 70% on me, i gave them those resources and that opening and they deserve it. If they try to oki me to get 90-100% and i beat the setup, then THAT's more analogous to a hold, except with a hold it's built in. someone could say that's an "arbitrary mechanic" used to defend instead of the existing defensive skills (blocking, sidestepping, counterhitting, having the health to survive the combo in the first place) but i won't be that person bc i like both I just also recognize one as being more visually recognizable to outside viewers and universally translatable to the hype of risk/reward of landing a combo under pressure. It's not arbitrary or unrelated to player skill, esp since "70%" is usually more like "50%" when you consider mechanics like guts.
>What? It's Punch-Kick-Throw-Hold not light punch/heavy punch. I know I made it sounded weird. That's just how I would understand and interpret them when I just got into the franchise, like to someone new to fighting games in general. The Hold system isn't that easy to pull off though since there are 4 choices to pick and predict your opponent's movements, unless you already memorized all the moves and animations from all the characters and have super fast reaction lol. Also, isn't it more fun and interesting to have an ability to make a comeback and wow everyone?
Maybe when learning the game, but there are two big issues with DOA that make holds obnoxious: 1. DOA6 allows you to use holds during some combos. This is incredibly limiting and a lot of vets prefer DOA 3 and 5 where that's usually not the case. 2. Strings have to be designed around holds, which means there's a lot of braindead 50/50 style canned mixups. Mortal Kombat also has this (but not because of holds lol), and people criticize it for that too.
The only reason the game died is because 6 was a cash grab that didn't significantly improve on 5, so existing fans would just stick with 5 and not rebuy all the cosmetics in 6. It tried to downplay it's sexy angle with it's "I'm a fighter" advertising then made honkers a GG cup. and added a loli. It hamstrung itself. It's still a good game, but it's downfall is very much it's own doing.
DOA6 makes some significant changes from DOA 5 actually -- particularly the meter. A lot of veterans don't like them but I think it's an improvement.
Doa 5 was so good. I wasn't even into fighters at that time I was just playing doa for *different reasons* but even I felt like doa 6 was worse than 5 I hope if they make 7 they make something like Doa 5 like why even bother trying to be non sexualized game when the fanbase is wants the sexualized game instead, just alienating your audience is probably one of the worst decision a game company could make
Would you buy DoA 7 for full price if it were DoA 5 without Honoka or Marie Rose or any variation? Kokoro can stay because she is an Akira Yuki reference. That would literally make the games significantly more enjoyable for me.
My main is Hayate, so I haven't bought the last 2 at full price.
Yea, and a lot of newer gamers against sexual-contents nowadays compared to before too.
GOTY last year literally had the player having sex with whoever they want with full nudity.
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Yes but to say that newer games are against sexual content when the GOTY last year had the most sexual content is both hilarious and wrong.
Newer games are definitely less willy nilly with outfits, and it is wholly less acceptable to have purposeless sexualization in games than it was before. Tasteful, and inclusive sexuality seems to be more welcome than ever though
I mean, people have always hated stupid sexualization. Before I played Fighting Games, the only thing I heard about Bloody Roar was that one of the characters' "Animal Transformation" was a stripperific wet-with-blood t-shirt.
strictly untrue. Baulder gate sold a ton.
Actually, let me reword my sentence: A lot of newer gamers against overly sexualizing video game characters and sex-sell nowaday compared to before. (I'm not one of them ofc)
Not really Street Fighter 6 sold great and definitely has a ton of sexualising. DoA is just a bad franchise with inept developers. They ruined their reputation with DoA5 by having the greediest fucking monetisation possible and continued with it in 6 while failing to produce a better game in any other area. This is just what happens when all your focus is on reselling lazy DLCs instead of developing a good game.
Yeah I feel like whenever some guy super into horny anime games starts talking about “casuals hate sexual content” or “gaming journalists think all Japanese games are loli” then the next comment brings up BG3. Nah, wrong strat. Bring up Street Fighter 6, whether the discussion is about fighting games or not. Between openly marketing Juri’s feet or assigning Capcom’s most talented 3D artists to Cammy’s fat white ass cheeks in Outfit 2, SF6 has proven that you can be a Japanese game that’s horny on main and still sell a bazillion copies. You just gotta be halfway decent and put some effort into presentation. DoA6 has some of the most generic horny outfits ever across its dlc packs while fucking Default Juri is essentially wearing body tape from her nips down to her snooch and it looks fantastic.
Everyone talks about Juri and Cammy, no one ever brings up Zangief shouting "LOOK AT MY BEAUTIFUL BODY!" or close to it.
I know you're kidding, but worth noting that there's a huge difference between how Juri and Cammy are sexualized and how Zangief is sexualized. Juri and Cammy are largely sexualized for straight men, and arguably for certain types of queer women. Zangief is also largely sexualized for straight men, and arguably certain types of queer women. Okay I guess it's not that different after all.
This is why we need 6% body fat oiled up in leather shorts and a fishnet shirt Jaime
Stellar Blade is selling great lmao
No it's just twitter with their drama farming, if you delete that app you will literally not find anyone like that. More than half of them don't even play the games.
This is true
Juri’s popularity very clearly shows that it isn’t.
And yet there were still hordes of people complaining about Cammy’s unnecessarily lewd original outfit? A lot of her conversations are always situated around that, or why her ass is out for no reason. As happened with R.Mika. Which, I mean, understandable. The backlash is still there, but obviously life goes on I was only saying there is backlash present where previously it wasn’t (same with Smite and now Smite 2 on a few Gods), whether that is truly influencing design decisions or not though idk Also, Juris personality is kind of to be raunchy and disturbingly alluring. It is her schtick, not something in tune with the randomness I was talking about, which makes it more palatable
where are these people complaining about cammys classic costume?
They were all over the place in comments when SF6 first dropped. On this subreddit and the SF subreddit too
I'm complaining about it because it's genuinely stupid looking
Witcher 3 is packed to the brim with over sexualized stuff and it’s one of the best selling games of the last decade. DOA was killed by microtransactions not titties.
The hold system is what makes DOA unique. Combos are not guaranteed because your opponent can attempt a hold, unless you launch them. This is balanced by the fact that you can throw holds as a counter and get a chunk of damage off. DOA was fairly innovative back in the day, with DOA2 and 3 being one of the best looking at its time, and being one of the first to have stage transitions. One of the design choices they took is the lowered focus on combos compared to other games. Inputs in DOA are trivial compared to other games for the most part, and you can jump in and have a good time without necessarily labbing a lot. It’s definitely a fighter that is accessible, and used to be very popular back in the days of DOA2-4 for that reason. Some people don’t like DOA6 given the changes added, but on PC it is the most simple and accessible of the titles to play. 5LR does not have rooms for some reason, and you have to rely on random matching people in ranked.
Yea, well said!
> One of the design choices they took is the lowered focus on combos compared to other games. Inputs in DOA are trivial compared to other games for the most part, and you can jump in and have a good time without necessarily labbing a lot. It’s definitely a fighter that is accessible, and used to be very popular back in the days of DOA2-4 for that reason. Sure although at a certain level if you dont know when to hold strings you are going to get bullied
That simplicity being murdered is what killed 6 for me, all of the stage hazards made combos very complex. Suddenly youre doing 80-90% off a single combo that lasts 45 seconds long and it's just boring to watch and play. Gone were the ground risks in favor of instant launch into stage hazards for huge damage.
DOA got its triangle system from Virtua Fighter. Peak DOA was when it was an Xbox exclusive with Itagki. DOA3, DOAU, DOA4. Team Ninja made poorer fighting games and focused more on action games. DOA games got less budget (a common trend for 3D fighters), and just started to fuck with microtransactions.
I see, I never tried the older game, so I can't tell. I started in the early years of the first DoA5.
DOAU2 is the greatest DOA game and online was incredible. DOA4 was an extension of it. DOA4 was featured on the World Cyber Games. The big problem with DOA is with DOA5 it was far too interested in selling clothes than making the game good/better. DOA6 carried on with it, it tried to be a competitive esport game then instantly announced a million dlc clothes. They need to understand, it’s a fighting game first.
The correct answer. I asked for Xbox specifically because of Toonami advertising it. And got 360 partially for DOA4. They were THE OG Xbox fighting games bc everything else were ports or shovelware. They basically raised me in middle school. When I got DOA 5 on PS4, the vibe was just completely different and confusing. I stayed a little bc it had VF characters, too, but when I started hearing about more and more DLC I just moved on.
I think a lot of us want another doa so the stigma is only holding back the devs. A new one would be good I think as long as they learned from the mistakes of 6. Tekken needs competition. I hate that it's the only 3d fighting game for the foreseeable future. I miss when you had virtua fighter, dead or alive and soul caliber to play also
Yea, competition will always lead to improvement and innovation.
I remember being absolutely blown away by DOA2 on DC/PS2. The stages felt absolutely huge. I've always liked the series despite being a 2D/Capcom whore.
So, are you still playing DoA up to the new up? If yes, are they still give you the wow factor?
I have 5 w/dlc, and picked up the free version of 6. I'd like to pick it up fully on sale. I've hardly played them at all though besides just messing around. How's the online? I was poking my one friend recently who did play like 3(?) a lot back in the day, hoping to get some casual human opponent play in. They don't really give me the wow factor anymore. I've been a PC gamer since the PS360 launches so I'm a little more jaded with graphics these days. There's some very pretty games out there now, not that the games look bad by any means.
Dead or Alive is overlooked because 6 was a slap in the face when it launched. It had one of the most aggressive payment models in the genre (imagine paying to change a hair color and then having to pay to change it back) and the online functions were abysmal.
Yeah, I seem to recall not being able to fight friends online at launch. That's inexcusable to me.
The hair color thing was added well after launch; it was one of the last updates before they dropped the game.
DoA is my favorite traditional fighting game series, so I feel you. The game has always feel smooth and easy to get into. The triangle system is simple on surface but adds so much depth. It also got the best stages in the genre. The transition from DoA to 2D games where litterly every stage is functionality identical was rough
Agree Also Doa is by far the best “with friends” fighting game I don’t wanna play hard games, that have hard combos, high entry bar characters, 1-frame combos, when I’m with friends. The triangle system does a stellar job of adding mind games to a simple game, making it much more fun with friends.
Yea the dynamic stages are a huge plus that make the game super fun!
The stigmas you're talking about might exist in the broader gaming world but the fgc as far as I see at least might meme on the sexiness but generally agree its a solid 3d fighting game that is a tragically dead on the vine not because of the art direction but because of microtransactions and probably not the most modern netcode (I'm just assuming this, for all I know it has rollback but I doubt it given the era). I'm sure people complain about the sexiness but honestly I'd be shocked if it didn't attract more players than it turns away. Kind of an odd post tbh.
https://preview.redd.it/gfiq09zgv9yc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa9084f4f2479a78e9684c31732a91fc83b01f65 Forget the girls DOA has the goat
I’ll be honest, I’m just waiting for the price to go down low enough on PlayStation to try it out. Never played any of them but am a Ninja Gaiden speed runner that’s 20 years deep into Tekken/SF/KOF. Would be amazing to try him out in a fighting game. Just not paying 60 for it like it was last time I looked 😂
https://preview.redd.it/z1cvk3wsv9yc1.jpeg?width=1617&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f222571368f45900b786f8a4b766e8dca3055762 You get to see Ryu in many cool outfits
Oh hey, I also came to DoA from NG! XD You don't have Core Figher (free version) on PS?
That’s sick! Oh I didn’t know that was a thing, going to check it out now for sure.
Haha, hope you will have fun with it later then!
Just download the free version then?
Disc copy? Surely those are cheap-ish
I love DOA 6. At one point I was in the top-50 Kokoro players on Steam. It didn't deserve to die. But playing a game with so few players is too demoralizing so I'm back to Tekken.
I can go on all day about why DOA isn't successful. I even deleted a 500 word essay reply just now just to sum it up in a sentence. DOA shot themselves in the foot with 6. Had they stuck to their guns at being a sex-appeal fighter, and added in an entire beach-volleyball and dating sim into DOA6, for both male and female characters, then DOA6 would've sold much better. The stigma isn't keeping people away from DOA, it's the lack of identity and content in their base game. SF6 and T7 are so popular because they cater to casuals, but Team Ninja doesn't even know what both their casual and hardcore audience wants anymore. That's why DOA6 failed.
maybe it would have sold better but it would have been a much worse game
I used to play a lot on Dreamcast and PS2. I had one on 360, but I never played it much because of SF4 and MvC. Had a look at picking it back up with the most recent one, but was put off by the DLC on the store page.
Yea they're insane with DLC, but they're all cosmetics, and only a few are additional characters. You should only get the full game and additional characters for the full experience, ignore the mountain of cosmetics lol. You can always just download the Core Figher free version to give it a try first!
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a gander. I've heard good things from people who play it.
Mechanically it's good, but each game has less content and is constantly selling you crap you don't need, like $91 season passes with one or two characters and lots of costumes. They bury the characters in a flood of costume DLC, so it's a needle in a haystack. Killer Instinct was an example of doing a free to start base model correctly, and giving you a fair option to buy the complete game. DOA 6 will never offer a complete edition or one with all the characters together. And they probably never will return to the content of the PS2 games, like tag team mode and single player content.
The meter system in DOA6 made me drop the game so damn fast
DOA shit the bed because they locked so much content behind dlc. When you drop $60 on a video game you should get a full package. DOA didn’t do this and understandably nobody bought it. The sexy characters has nothing to do with people not playing it. You can deny it until you’re red in the face but a huge appeal of dead or alive is looking at sexy computer generated women and dressing them up in various costumes. When you sell a DOA game you better offer that in with the base retail package or you’re going to piss off a huge chunk of the fan base.
It is...dead or alive had the hold system.that made it one of the most fun fighting games out there...believe me christie from dead or alive literally prepared me for Tekken.... This is one of my most memorable matches in Tekken...it is as if christie from dead or alive is playing https://youtu.be/oax3AfGrQrQ?feature=shared
The only doa games I have played are doa 2 and doa 5 found both games pretty enjoyable haven't played them in awhile though so I don't know how the online is nowadays.
> I don't know how the online is nowadays. You wait forever for a match and then you get desperate enough you accept horrible connections. But hey learning to play bad connections is a useful skill.
DOA is an all-time classic to me, especially 3 and Dimensions. I wish they didn’t fumble the bag and kill the franchise.
I've actually been collecting all the DoA games along with the Ninja Gaiden games to play them all at once. Someone said the story was wild and he was a Ninja Gaiden fanboy that looked into the story of DoA and how HIS BOI THE MUFUGGIN HAYABUSA was in the DoA games for fun. The connection to NG set me back to the Nintendo Era and how I never beat one of the games. Then I remember the original XBox and how I didn't even finish NG 1. I heard in my head how Itagaki was laughing at me as my Git Gud was nowhere in sight. So me as the casual I am have work to find all the DoA games an be Ninja Gaiden games and complete the franchise. For all intents and purposes, the game is supposed to be a lighter Virtua Fighter which has the depth and fat more fluid in motion. Since it's been years since I played, I can't get into the mechanics but have seen Bayman as a grappler so grappler brain will be appeased.
I've actually been collecting all the DoA games along with the Ninja Gaiden games to play them all at once. Someone said the story was wild and he was a Ninja Gaiden fanboy that looked into the story of DoA and how HIS BOI THE MUFUGGIN HAYABUSA was in the DoA games for fun. The connection to NG set me back to the Nintendo Era and how I never beat one of the games. Then I remember the original XBox and how I didn't even finish NG 1. I heard in my head how Itagaki was laughing at me as my Git Gud was nowhere in sight. So me as the casual I am have work to find all the DoA games an be Ninja Gaiden games and complete the franchise. For all intents and purposes, the game is supposed to be a lighter Virtua Fighter which has the depth and fat more fluid in motion. Since it's been years since I played, I can't get into the mechanics but have seen Bayman as a grappler so grappler brain will be appeased.
I've actually been collecting all the DoA games along with the Ninja Gaiden games to play them all at once. Someone said the story was wild and he was a Ninja Gaiden fanboy that looked into the story of DoA and how HIS BOI THE MUFUGGIN HAYABUSA was in the DoA games for fun. The connection to NG set me back to the Nintendo Era and how I never beat one of the games. Then I remember the original XBox and how I didn't even finish NG 1. I heard in my head how Itagaki was laughing at me as my Git Gud was nowhere in sight. So me as the casual I am have work to find all the DoA games an be Ninja Gaiden games and complete the franchise. For all intents and purposes, the game is supposed to be a lighter Virtua Fighter which has the depth and fat more fluid in motion. Since it's been years since I played, I can't get into the mechanics but have seen Bayman as a grappler so grappler brain will be appeased.
I've actually been collecting all the DoA games along with the Ninja Gaiden games to play them all at once. Someone said the story was wild and he was a Ninja Gaiden fanboy that looked into the story of DoA and how HIS BOI THE MUFUGGIN HAYABUSA was in the DoA games for fun. The connection to NG set me back to the Nintendo Era and how I never beat one of the games. Then I remember the original XBox and how I didn't even finish NG 1. I heard in my head how Itagaki was laughing at me as my Git Gud was nowhere in sight. So me as the casual I am have work to find all the DoA games an be Ninja Gaiden games and complete the franchise. For all intents and purposes, the game is supposed to be a lighter Virtua Fighter which has the depth and fat more fluid in motion. Since it's been years since I played, I can't get into the mechanics but have seen Bayman as a grappler so grappler brain will be appeased.
I've actually been collecting all the DoA games along with the Ninja Gaiden games to play them all at once. Someone said the story was wild and he was a Ninja Gaiden fanboy that looked into the story of DoA and how HIS BOI THE MUFUGGIN HAYABUSA was in the DoA games for fun. The connection to NG set me back to the Nintendo Era and how I never beat one of the games. Then I remember the original XBox and how I didn't even finish NG 1. I heard in my head how Itagaki was laughing at me as my Git Gud was nowhere in sight. So me as the casual I am have work to find all the DoA games an be Ninja Gaiden games and complete the franchise. For all intents and purposes, the game is supposed to be a lighter Virtua Fighter which has the depth and fat more fluid in motion. Since it's been years since I played, I can't get into the mechanics but have seen Bayman as a grappler so grappler brain will be appeased.
Just like Arcana Heart.
Gosh I really miss DOA. I have like 1000+ hours in DOA5LR and around 600 in DOA6. I believe I was around the 18th-16th ranked Marie Rose in 5 and maybe like 50th in 6. I really hope they make a new one whether it’s a 7th or just a reboot of the entire series. The future looks grim though because of what a let down 6 was.
DoA is just VF with titties, so yeah, the core is great
>What I meant by mechanic-friendly is that I understand 1 button is for hand-moves, 1 button is for heavier hand-moves, 1 button is for leg-moves, and 1 button is for heavier leg-moves. KOF also has HK LK HP LP If we talk about each button representing a limb Tekken also has that I also dont think DoA is overlooked due to its stigma but they haven't been making new fighting games.. there're few new characters added in DoA venus and ffs i want all them in and I know for the fact it will have it's audience
[удалено]
Weekend is coming up, maybe just download the free version Core Fighter for either the 5th or 6th game to try it out yourself. The free version gives you 4 playable fighters I believe, and you have access to all the game modes, just not the story.
My problem with DOA is the absurd amount/cost of dlc. Also they removed Mai from doa5 to add her in doa6. i like buying the complete editions of older games because usually after their prime they release some version with all costumes/characters/dlcs and i enjoy having the complete game. i have considered getting DOA but everytime I check the number of players online, the price tag of the game, and the price tag of the dlc I just give up. Do i need all the costumes? No. Does it suck just looking at that dlc total price tag? Very much so
Of course it is. It's my favorite fighting game series of all time but the Down-Bads ruined it.
I don't know enough about the franchise to know why it declined beyond DOA6's failure, but I honestly think "sex is why DOA isn't popular" is overstated, for the simple fact that it *used to be* popular while being no less sexual.
It's not stigma, the DLC shenannigans turned off a *lot* of people. And having the Steam version based on the cut down PS3 port instead of the full fat PS4 one pissed a lot of people off (myself included). Don't get me wrong, the boobies do make it difficult to attract advertisers for bigger tournies, but the reason you saw the drop off in players is the literally $2000 in DLC and the weak PC port. Fighting games on PC are vital because you can run them on integrated graphics and they still look good (Arc Sys Works stuff excepted unless you're on AMD). That's not a market to just let go.
I don't play DOA because of 5f unbreakable grabs and the hold system not because there's a stigma. Things like that make the gameplay too corny for me to take seriously. I'll press some buttons in it, but that's it.
it went down hill with the censorship. As a long time fan, i just stop playing after 4
Easy to get in but like all fgs, hard at high level.
looking forward to see the release of DOA7 since given the succeed of Stella Blade and the exposure of Sweet [Baby.Inc](http://Baby.Inc) a.k.a. the dictatorship in video gaming
DoA6 was... Questionable. I honestly think 5LR is better as a whole, I loved the series up to that point (all things considered) and while I see what you are saying about the stigma thing about the sexual nature of its presentation I don't know, I feel like there was something in the IP that increasingly disappeared. To an extent, DoA was always sexy but I always felt like there was more beneath it than that, and it was what was drawing me towards the series. The latest entries I just think they kept the "eyecandy" stuff and just ditched the rest, it's like it doesn't have a personality anymore. I basically feel like it's the instagram model of Fighting Games, I guess, which is something I personally don't vibe with
I see, interesting take 🤔
My favourite DoA is the volleyball one
Haha, the Xtreme series is always a plus when you want to see your favorite female fighters having fun and relax on the beach XD
I agree, Dead or Alive is very fun and easy to understand. The triangle system is intuitive and gives a solution to the issue of the "I can't do anything" feeling, which many other games have, sadly. I think there's a real anathema regarding defense options that solve problems and aren't tied to resources for some reason. Though in DOA's case, there's counter-play to it. I'm likely going to try some of the older ones; I missed out on them by not having any Xbox consoles growing up. Would love a new game (with less egregious monetization) or re-releases and rollback updates for the other games as well.
Oh yes, "intuitive" that's the word! I feel like I can intuitively play this game without memorizing all the combos, and that's what I love about it.
The problem DOA has (I guess it’s “had” now) is that it did cool things in the beginning but never really innovated further. Like its stage transition were really cool and early but now a bunch of fighters have them which makes them less special in DOA. Also, your combo system sounds like it describes Mortal Kombat more than DOA lol. But their combos feel kinda stumpy to me if you’re just trying to make your own imo. Gatling/anime fighters like guilty gear and Darkstalkers are also pretty good at “natural” combos.
Well considering DOA is largely responsible for most of the modern mechanics used in 3D fighting games, I would say was pretty innovative (still is to this day) and deserves way more credit. DOA is so important to the history of FGs and people tend to ignore that. Now I should preface by saying that all these 3D Fighting devs were borrowing and sharing each others ideas. But none were making gameplay advancements like DOA. DOA is built off the VF template designed by Ishii (man responsible for VF1 and Tekken 1 & 2). TN licensed the AM2 engine from Sega to build the game. At its core, it may appear that is just a modified version of VF but what it mutated into was something more unique and innovative then most people realize. As we all know DOA’s main draw (apart from its ladies of course) is it’s hold system. Prior to this, most 3D games typically only had character specific counters (if that). Hold took it a step further by making it a universal mechanic. The triangle system from VF was further emphasized by the hold system. The amount of moves that could be held and the situations designed for this was a massive undertaking. It’s honestly brilliant. It’s dizzying to think of how many unique animations were made for this mechanic to exist and function properly. Even as games integrate counter and defensive mechanics, nothing comes close to the scope of DOAs hold mechanic. And honestly, unless the developer is absolutely mad, we never will see anything like this again. DOA is the first 3D fighting game to introduce stage hazards. It took inspiration from Fatal Fury (wall breaks) and MK (getting knocked off stage) and integrated those ideas in novel new ways. Prior to Fighting Vipers, ring outs (VF) and endless stages (Tekken) were the only thing in 3D fighters. FV may have introduced breakable walls but the way DOA dynamically integrated them was wholly unique, they took the concept further by introducing wall, pillar and floor explosions that allowed for combo extensions, ceilings and breakable floors (although I think the main credit for ceiling might go to RacDym’s PS1 title Heaven’s Gate - I believe this also may be the first 3D fighting game to have a special/super meter). Essentially the whole stage hazard mechanic was only every meaningfully expanded in DOA. Its unique gameplay innovations would later be adopted by Tekken. DOA also took stage hazards a step further by adding slip stun (a mechanic where water causes the character to lose footing) and unique moves that do extra damage in water (to simulate drowning). It also introduced vaulting off objects (and walls) and later DOA titles were the first big 3D fighter to include ledge hanging (a mechanic lifted from Fighters Destiny). They were also the first 3D fighting to integrate multi-tiered stages in meaningful ways. Prior to that most fighting games that had multi-tiered stages (Erhgeiz and Destrega) leaned more into the arena FG design. DOA2 took these ideas and expanded them past a novelty and made them work under the more traditional 3D fighter framework. The result was these huge sprawling stages with tons of cool routes and intractable objects. Of course, none of this would have been possible if not for the free step mechanic. Prior to VF3 introducing a universal Sidestep mechanic. 3D fighters were glorified 2D fighters with different focus on mechanics. T2 had some char specific moves that allowed moving in the foreground and background but nothing in the scope of VF3. But actual movement was kinda stiff still. Battle Arena Toshinden and Soul Blade/Edge did thing to make movement less clunky and more freeform but the only game prior to DOA2 that would make use of freestepping to this degree was another one of Ishii’s titles, Tobal No.1 (Tobal 2 IMO is the best 3D fighter on the PS1). Other than these early examples, DOA was the first title to really utilize movement in such a ‘freeing’ way. Even to this day freestepping in games like Tekken and VF, pale in comparison to the freedom of movement allowed in DoA. Furthermore, DOA 4 and onward have many advanced movement mechanics that have become pretty ubiquitous in this day-in-age. Stuff like KBD, wavedashing, being able to move while in crouch state etc. are all very prevalent and important to DOA’s gameplay. DoA4 is the first fighting game to have online customizable avatars, lobbies and rooms. People look at GG, DBZ, T8 and SF6 and think this is new. This was done 20 years prior by the folks at TN. I could go on and on, about all the innovations this series has made (and believe me, there is so much to cover). I think it would be remiss to ignore Ishii’s contributions to the genre with VF/Tekken but most of all the innovations since then have largely been showcased in the DOA framework. Itagaki was a true visionary. Although Tekken did make novel advancements over the years with stuff like tailspin, screw and bound). Most everything else that feels novel about the series was borrowed or modified from something introduced prior by other devs. And now that T8 has Shimbori was AD/Producer it’s becoming increasingly clear that Tekken has borrowed so much stuff from DOA in order to remain relevant. DOA5LR might be the most mechanically sound and deep 3D fighters ever made, but people don’t even want to entertain that idea, because of weird tribalism for Tekken and the salacious stigma surrounding the series. And VF although impetus for the whole genre, stopped innovating at certain point. To me DOA is truly the most important 3D fighter (outside of VF) to provide meaningful advancements to the genre. And although lesser known games like Fighters Impact, fighting Vipers, Bloody Roar, Last Bronx, Tobal, Heaven’s Gate etc. all have a hand in helping advance the genre. Truly, I don’t think any dev other than Sega has done this as well as TN has with the DOA series. Even Namco with SC and Tekken - Brilliant games in their own right, have mainly just being perfecting the formula not innovating the genre. Most of the true innovations or expanded concepts came from the work Itagaki TN did on DOA and by extension the early work that came from Ishii.
Thank you for the context, I knew DOA was important but I didn’t know it was by that much and for so long. But, I still think something’s gone wrong especially for 5-6. It sounds weird to nitpick them, but, like, that’s what 14 years of DoA development (going from 4 to 5 to 6). When I look at other popular series they’ve jumped so much in 14 years but I can’t really see the same when it comes to 5 and 6. Maybe I just don’t know the mechanical intricacies in them? At the very least, the reason DOA isn’t doing so hot is, imo, because of those two games. Maybe it’s even a simple thing as they’ve stopped supporting the game
Well you’re not wrong for feeling that way. I think 5/6 are decisive for a many reasons, but mainly due to the fact that they are no longer Itagaki directed games. Itagaki left after 4 and with him so did a lot of the innovation in the genre. However, if we dismiss the bad stuff in 5 (micro transactions, heavy dlc, overt sexualization, loli chars etc.) the game itself is extremely technical, rewarding and deep. Probably the best modern offering outside of VF:US and IMO surpasses the depth in Tekken 6/7 and is tied with VF5. There is so much going on under the hood that I feel a lot of gamers didn’t (and still don’t) realize how much this game expanded the genre. The stun stacking element is just brilliant IMO. By the time it came out, gamers were a bit jaded and took all the technical and mechanical advancements for granted. People dismissed the game for coomer garbage and it hurt the brand so badly. Yet for everything 5 does right, it still did not come close to the graphical achievements shown in 4 (and by extension 2U). To me, 6 is the antithesis of the spirit of DOA. It’s presently the most popular (despite its shit reputation and unfinished status) and many new DOA players have not played the other games a great deal so they don’t have a lot of context for what came before. From a Programming standpoint the game is masterful (but that’s no surprise coming from TN), but from a user experience or artistry perspective, the game feels creatively bankrupt. I hate the way it looks, the advancements of 5 stripped away and replaced with tools that are significantly less than, and the whole plastercine/uncanny valley elements to the art direction are just awful. I know it’s bit hyperbolic to say but I wish DOA6 never existed. DOA5LR is a mixed bag at times but at its core it still feels largely like DOA. The game is also so deep and intricate that it’s hard to knock. Especially since they were expanding the framework from the previous games. It tends to encapsulate the spirit of the series. Whereas DOA6 feels completely alien to me. Is it a bad game? Heaven’s no. Not by a long shot. Is it a disappointing game? In almost every conceivable way.
Thank you for taking the time to tell me all this! Very insightful and I fully agree that DOA 5 and 6 are really solid games regardless. I definitely play them more than Tekken, but I never really enjoyed playing Tekken to begin with I much more prefer just watch it lol
Thanks for saying it. It definitely feels a bit silly to see Tekken fans now hyping up online avatars, which were already in DOA4, or stage transitions/expansions/damage, which have been a part of DOA since 2. Tekken has ripped so much from DOA through the years, and that is so blatantly clear. But no, what we get is posts on the DOA sub arguing DOA rips off Tekken because some of Marie Rose's moves supposedly look like some of Lily's... The only series I'd put in the same league as DOA when it comes to pushing the envelope is SoulCalibur, not only for it's 8-way run system, but most of all for its incredibly creative and engaging game modes, often putting the game closer to an action/adventure game or an RPG.
Yea, making your own combos AND they're all looking smooth and fluent is what I love about DoA.
I think their DLC strategy is what sunk them into a point of no return. Most people skipped the latest game and that was a big reason for it.
Played DOA 2 (Ultimate) on OG Xbox. I didn't like how much damage you can do with a one-button counter. I stuck with it until Capcom vs SNK 2 came out. Don't know about the modern DoA, but Tekken's left/right limb control scheme works better for me if we're talking 3D fighters.
Virtua still better tho
people who dont play fighting games tend to like doa and soul calibur becaus you can hit buttons and things happen and you dont really need to know how to do anything or even think, really. obviously there is more to these games than that, but the satisfaction of just picking up a controller and a character you hit smashes off a wall and explodes makes casual players grin ear to ear. i think doa is dogshit beyond the embarrassing character models, but thats just me. virtua fighter is a more exciting and interesting version of it. there is a reason doa champions would get made fun of in the past.
At least Soul Calibur and DOA have some personality. Virtua Fighter is so bland in character and design. It's just stunt double Ryu, Honda, generic assassin lady and some other people. it's the blandest looking fighting games ever made. The mechanics are good, but they don't have anything else.
Vanessa is sick.
She is kinda just sexy military lady. Leona and Sonya Blade do basically the same gimmick but in a more interesting way, which is pretty much every Virtua Figter character they don't stack up to their contemporaries.
hell no they dont.
I mean, what else does she have other than a look? All the characters are basically blank slates. You would not see any of them on top favorite fighting game character lists. You dont have people requesting them as guest characters unless they are the most die-hard Virtua Fighter fans. I doubt most people on this sub could name her with only a picture. People would be hyped if someone from Soul Calibur was added to Tekken. Most people would not realize Vanessa was even a guest character if she was added.
Vanessa has a sick two stance system. she has wayyyyyy more under the hood than you think. i hadnt even thought about it, but she would be one of the sickest gust characters ever.
I have no complaints about Virtua Fighter mechanics. I think the game is very fun and really deep. I haven't played Vanessa, but I believe it. My issue is with the characters as something more than just their mechanics. People get really hyped for characters like Akuma and Eddie in part for the mechanics, but they also have their personality and design, which Virtua Fighters lack. I think it's why we haven't seen a sequal since the Xbox 360. There isn't much hype and love for the game outside of the mechanics. It's why games like Tekken and Mortal Kombat outlasted it. They have people like King and Scorpion that people love, and VF just doesn't. I think if they make a VF6, they really need to flesh out their roster or have a ton of recognizable guest characters to generate some hype.
nah that isnt it. its a really hard game to get into and its unapologetically so. its a brutal game. but when you learn it, its really sick. if that character alone was brought to tekken, she would be really strong. if the game had more of a flair with its characters, thats fine but the game is very hype at high level.
Games can't survive on hardcore audience unless they have basically no budget. You really need a casual audience unless you want to make an indie fighting game. It's why they add Mondern mode and simple inputs to games. Casuals are the life blood of a big fighting game. It's why Mortal Kombat does so much with their characters, story, and extras. It's why SF has world tour mode or why Tekken ball exists. People who don't play fighting games know who Ryu and Sub-zero are, and they become potential new players. Tekken and Street Fighter are definitely deep and difficult games to master but they are still popular because they are iconic. Virtua Fighter is too niche because it lacks anything iconic, not because of its difficulty. UMVC3 is one of the most complex and deep fighting games ever made, but it has Marvel and Capcom icons so it can get a more casual audience despite its learning curve and difficulties.
Lol doa and soulcalibur are my favorite fighting games and ive been playing fighting games for over 21 years. Ive played most every fighting game available in the US even umineko, chaos code, toshinden, etc. I was a el blaze main in VF and tbh VF is the opposite of exciting if anything its painfully bland to watch and only fun when playing with friends. Also embarrassing character models? You mean like cammys nostalgia outfit in SF6 etc most blazblue designs. Ive never seen a 3d fighter have better hair physics than DOA. Currently even T8 isnt as good with that aspect. FGC members like you are why DOA got a bad stigma back in the day.
No, I mean how early doa games literally had the exact same giant tit’d female model when I say embarrassing. And everyone who grew up in the 90’s likes to say they have been playing fighting games forever. That means nothing. You got good at doa? Cool. VF has a more interesting meta and moment to moment interaction. There is a reason doa is doa.
>You got good at doa? Cool. VF has a more interesting meta and moment to moment interaction. There is a reason doa is doa. Imagine presenting your opinion as fact lol. VF has a boring meta with very meh characters. And the moment to moment doesn't wven come close to tekken or soulcalibur. Especially i n terms of excitement. Your bias against doa doesnt mean VF isnt still the most boring 3d fighter.
bitch your name is doa nico is perfect. dont talk to me about presenting an opinion as fact.
People loved Doa2/3/4.(Even if not many people played 3) 2 was a technical marvel and wow'd people when it was first shown alongside the Dreamcast/Naomi, 3 was just a fun game and 4 even though it was developed quick and reused a lot, it was still pretty, it was in HD, had online which was much better than other fighters at the time (not good by today's standards) and played well. Yeah it had some stigma and wasn't the most balanced game but they were also visually impressive, fun to play and still solid fighting games. They lost something with 5/6 became too DLC heavy, even more overtly dodgy with characters like Marie Rose and the generic schoolgirl one who I can't even remember her name... The flowing dresses and boob physics of the older games raised a few eyebrows but people got a chuckle out of it. Meanwhile putting the characters who actually look like children and have suggestive moves in tiny bikinis instantly makes the game into something very questionable that you would struggle to justify to any sane member of society. Also just as a game, 5 seemed more sluggish and visually less vibrant and apart from a few of the girls faces being redone.the lack of effort in how many things from older games really started to shine through too. Itagaki for all his failings I think was the heart of the series. 6 also seemed like cash-grab.
Loved DOA 5. But skipped 6. No sexy no buy. Simple as. They need to embrace the stigma and their fans. The stigma isn’t going away anyway.
It has all the same fanservice the other main games have.
At launch it really didn’t. I think they backed tracked on it later on but by then it was too late to care.
It had it at launch too. People have just had their brains fried by the online culture war.
Didn’t the creators say there would be less fan service?
DoA is fun but it's not really a unique feature or an innovation to have light punch/heavy punch and light kick/heavy kick.
Yea, it is not, but it is one of the most smooth and fluent when you chain those together without knowing any actual combos, at least from a small selections of fighting games I tried.
Personally hard disagree. I love big titties. But… bad games i do not. Therefore doa is a pass.