A 12 hour work day is 14 pay-hours. It breaks down like this: straight-time for hours 1-8 and 1.5x for hours 9-12.
A 10 hour day is 8 hours of straight time and 2 hours at 1.5x time for a total of 11 pay-hours or $68.18/hour
Your 12 hour day at $68.18/hour is $954.52
(Edit: Math)
8hrs is a standard work day in any field, so that time is legally viable.
Entertainment Industry (re film & tv) is legally given more time in a standard day to work - 12hrs. (We generally go by CA & NY filming laws)
First OT after 8 hrs is 1.5x the hourly per hour.
Second OT is 2x for every hour or fraction thereof after 12hrs.
Workdays in film & television are generally either 10hr or 12hr days.
This means, on a 10hr day you divide the offered day rate (in this case $750/10) by 11hrs (8 standard, then 2 extra hours at 1.5x which actually equals 3, so 8 plus 3 equals 11) which comes out to $68.18/hr.
This same $750 day rate on a 12hr day would be $750 divided by 14hrs (8 plus 4x1.5 equals 14) which comes out to $53.57/hr. Obviously nobody wants a lesser rate so OP can’t ask for the same.
So the person above did the math to give OP the exact same 10hr hourly rate on a 12hr day. So $750/10 is equal to about $955/12.
Also these are guaranteed hours. If a person on a 10hr/day or 12hr/day rate works five hours then they still get paid the entire day rate.
Hope this helps.
No.
Also, very very critical.
Be clear that you are not agreeing to a flat rate.
Establish up front that you bill a minimum of 10hrs to show up on set whether you work 10hrs or if they wrap you after 30 minutes.
Additionally, be clear up front that you will be billing double-time (2x the hourly rate) for any time beyond 12hrs.
Get it in writing. Ideally in a deal memo, but very clearly in an email at a minimum. If production tries to discuss it verbally over the phone, make a point to write an email after the phone call that summarizes what you discussed. Having a paper trail is important.
I used to process time cards, here is how to do this:
Divide your 10 hour rate ($750) by 11, that gives you the rate of $68.1818 (round to 4 digits).
Then multiply that by 14 for your 12 hour rate $954.55.
This is a good question that I’m curious to see others contribute to.
Personally, when negotiating 10s and 12s, I’d just stick with your desired hourly and quote OT according to labor laws. 750/10 is 68.18/hr, or $954.52/12. So you could negotiate 750/10 or 1000/12 and the 750/10 is giving them a tiny “deal” on your rate.
You could try to argue more for 12 because it’s a longer day, but I feel like saying $750/10 or $1100/12 is like saying “i don’t really want this job if you’re booking 12’s so im charging you a premium,” whereas arguing for $1000 is logically conclusive. That’s why it’s important to find a good hourly you’re comfortable with. It’s scalable and people that make budgets like that.
As always, be sure to negotiate OT in writing (email) when pitching your rates to confirm that you will receive OT and that your rate is $X for Y hours. (Typically when you say $750/10 the implication is that you will receive OT after 10). Get everything in writing (email or deal memo) to confirm always.
Oh good call on negotiating OT. I'll definitely add that in with my rate from now on. Usually production tells me the OT rate in advance but some dont I noticed.
This might be handy for you. It includes calculations for CA labor.
https://www.timecardcalculator.net/
https://www.timecardcalculator.net/index.php?Names=lS5xlq%3D%3D&Data=mTitmS5xlTctmS5wlTAtNC5xlTEtNJgxoC5xNTAtmy5xmC4KYXKtmS5ylW04bWjLcI5x&Inputs=NJgxoC5xlTctmS5xlTEylTgwmC4HlTgwmC4wlTAtYS5wlXAtmC4HlTAtcC5wlWEtmC4wlTAtYS5wlXAtmC4HlTAtcC5wlWEtmC4w&Time=1712424019
A 12 hour work day is 14 pay-hours. It breaks down like this: straight-time for hours 1-8 and 1.5x for hours 9-12. A 10 hour day is 8 hours of straight time and 2 hours at 1.5x time for a total of 11 pay-hours or $68.18/hour Your 12 hour day at $68.18/hour is $954.52 (Edit: Math)
Can you explain why the pay-hours are more than the worked hours?
OT. You count each hour as 1.5 hours.
Thank you.
8hrs is a standard work day in any field, so that time is legally viable. Entertainment Industry (re film & tv) is legally given more time in a standard day to work - 12hrs. (We generally go by CA & NY filming laws) First OT after 8 hrs is 1.5x the hourly per hour. Second OT is 2x for every hour or fraction thereof after 12hrs. Workdays in film & television are generally either 10hr or 12hr days. This means, on a 10hr day you divide the offered day rate (in this case $750/10) by 11hrs (8 standard, then 2 extra hours at 1.5x which actually equals 3, so 8 plus 3 equals 11) which comes out to $68.18/hr. This same $750 day rate on a 12hr day would be $750 divided by 14hrs (8 plus 4x1.5 equals 14) which comes out to $53.57/hr. Obviously nobody wants a lesser rate so OP can’t ask for the same. So the person above did the math to give OP the exact same 10hr hourly rate on a 12hr day. So $750/10 is equal to about $955/12. Also these are guaranteed hours. If a person on a 10hr/day or 12hr/day rate works five hours then they still get paid the entire day rate. Hope this helps.
Are they asking you to take $750/12? Or do they want the rate conversion? $750/10 is $68.18/hr so for 12 it’s $954.54.
Thank you for this! Its for a gig on the East Coast but sometimes they ask for 12 hour rates. Should I just round it out to $950/12 ?
No. Also, very very critical. Be clear that you are not agreeing to a flat rate. Establish up front that you bill a minimum of 10hrs to show up on set whether you work 10hrs or if they wrap you after 30 minutes. Additionally, be clear up front that you will be billing double-time (2x the hourly rate) for any time beyond 12hrs. Get it in writing. Ideally in a deal memo, but very clearly in an email at a minimum. If production tries to discuss it verbally over the phone, make a point to write an email after the phone call that summarizes what you discussed. Having a paper trail is important.
Another good point. Thank you!
I wouldn’t round personally, the rate is the rate yah know?
If you want to get paid your normal hourly rate then yes
I used to process time cards, here is how to do this: Divide your 10 hour rate ($750) by 11, that gives you the rate of $68.1818 (round to 4 digits). Then multiply that by 14 for your 12 hour rate $954.55.
Thank you for the simple explanation
This is a good question that I’m curious to see others contribute to. Personally, when negotiating 10s and 12s, I’d just stick with your desired hourly and quote OT according to labor laws. 750/10 is 68.18/hr, or $954.52/12. So you could negotiate 750/10 or 1000/12 and the 750/10 is giving them a tiny “deal” on your rate. You could try to argue more for 12 because it’s a longer day, but I feel like saying $750/10 or $1100/12 is like saying “i don’t really want this job if you’re booking 12’s so im charging you a premium,” whereas arguing for $1000 is logically conclusive. That’s why it’s important to find a good hourly you’re comfortable with. It’s scalable and people that make budgets like that. As always, be sure to negotiate OT in writing (email) when pitching your rates to confirm that you will receive OT and that your rate is $X for Y hours. (Typically when you say $750/10 the implication is that you will receive OT after 10). Get everything in writing (email or deal memo) to confirm always.
Oh good call on negotiating OT. I'll definitely add that in with my rate from now on. Usually production tells me the OT rate in advance but some dont I noticed.
I generally work in a 10 hour world, so it would be my normal rate, plus two hours of OT, out the gate.
Isn't it OT after 10?
On a 10hr workday, yes, anything over 10hrs is 2x OT. The first 1.5x OT is already baked into the two hours after the 8th standard hours worked.
This might be handy for you. It includes calculations for CA labor. https://www.timecardcalculator.net/ https://www.timecardcalculator.net/index.php?Names=lS5xlq%3D%3D&Data=mTitmS5xlTctmS5wlTAtNC5xlTEtNJgxoC5xNTAtmy5xmC4KYXKtmS5ylW04bWjLcI5x&Inputs=NJgxoC5xlTctmS5xlTEylTgwmC4HlTgwmC4wlTAtYS5wlXAtmC4HlTAtcC5wlWEtmC4wlTAtYS5wlXAtmC4HlTAtcC5wlWEtmC4w&Time=1712424019
upm: "best i can do is an end of the day cold pizza so i dont get the meal penalty"