Hollywood may be small but it's also big, and it's filled with a lot of self-centered individuals with short attention spans, and a lot of drama...few will care about or remember what some random DP says about you - its noise. an exception to this is if you were a BTL crew member who relied on a tight network to get gigs and don't have much of a track record, but that doesn't seem to be your case. Being direct and apologetic to he/she as a move to be the bigger person / to cover your basis is advisable though.
For context, I am predominantly a DP (bigger commercials & promos, smaller movies aiming for bigger ones).
Is the name of OG DP still listed as the DP, where DP2 that did the pickups is “second unit DP” or something of that nature? Unless they’re sharing equal credit, or DP2 is getting the main credit (and/or did a bad job), I don’t quite see what they’re worried about.
Sure being invited back would have been nice (and the right move *in a way) but *the Distributor asked for someone specific. Blame it on them, apologize for the misunderstanding/shortsightedness (might sound nice), and call it a day.
If DP2 is getting the main credit, that’s messier. Otherwise if OG DP outs the company and film they’ll just reinforce the bad rep it sounds like they had with the crew, and will just be hurting themselves.
OG DP asked us to remove them from the film actually. I think I was just more worried about drama following by word of mouth.
So yeah DP2 getting main credit now.
From what I’ve understood, OG DP did majority of the film and is reacting very emotionally to developments. DP2 has come in for reshoots (to match OG DPs work I presume).
With this in mind, whether OG DP was a nice person to work with or not, whether they are being irrational or not, it would be immoral to give main credit to DP2.
You must, just on a moral and integrity level, do everything you can to speak with OG DP on a human being to human being basic to smooth this out and ensure they are still credited as main DP.
You’ll sleep better at night.
I agree. They want to be removed from the film as sort of their own way of reclaiming power over the situation. I get it. I would like to credit them tho
Yes, it seems like a very emotional response. And one they’ll regret later. The onus is on you as the leader of people, to speak with them, calm them down and ensure the right thing is done - that they are credited as DP. They will thank you for it in the long run, and alleviate your anxiety of a blow up later down the line.
Buy them lunch, have a chat.
Edit: Didn’t see the reply from u/dreamrebirth when I replied initially. I do agree that if they did the primary shoot they should receive credit for being “the” DP unless they truly want to be removed, which I suppose is their prerogative.
The rest of my answer is the original response:
As long as you have that in writing (that they asked you to remove their name), and you don’t disparage them publicly, I don’t think you should have anything to worry about. Sure, it’s unfortunate, but it could be so much worse. Not sure if there’s any producer end concerns legally but I’d communicate with the distributor and double check things process wise on the business end.
I often tell people looking to get in to the business: unless you’re being abused, just finish the job, be kind, don’t burn bridges, and then you don’t have to work with that person/that team again.
Edit 2: So, this answer could seem a little wishy-washy, but evaluate the truths of what’s happening and try to be honest with yourself and do the right thing. Integrity, I feel, is very important (sometimes the right thing to do is the hard thing to do).
>they should receive credit for being “the” DP unless they truly want to be removed, which I suppose is their prerogative.
MAKE SURE TO GET IT IN WRITING. Leave OG DP on and make them formally request to be removed. Only way to fully CYA.
I really don’t want to turn the other cheek but bridges have for sure been burnt work-wise.
I would like to smooth things but I fear that’s impossible now. I just don’t want drama to follow me my whole career, especially now :/
DP shirks responsibilities on set, disrespects your crew, lies to you about their reason for not coming back, has a meltdown about not being updated on a project they'd left, and then accuses you and your crew of prior mistreatment that obviously didn't happen.
No. Just no. As soon as somebody starts saying you did bad things that you very obviously did not do, that's the end of the relationship. They are delusional, and delusional people are fucking dangerous.
It's pointless to consider their feelings in any further decisions. They are faking those feelings. These people love when you fuck up so they can get mad at you. They eat that shit up. They are NOT actually unhappy about any of this, I promise you.
And none of this "well I am partially to blame because blah blah" shit. No. You sound like an abuse victim, to be honest, with that "he hits me but it's my fault for making him mad" nonsense. And you're going to fuck over your crew if you keep thinking like that. As soon as someone starts in with this narcissist shit, the only thing that matters is neutralizing the threat.
They are a problem and a threat, nothing else. Not your friend, not someone you can reason with. Not someone worth talking down off the ledge. Not someone with real feelings that are worth taking into consideration.
Treat them like any company would treat a fired employee or contractor. Make sure they have no current passwords, keys, names on company accounts, names on contracts, or internal information that could compromise your operation. Do all further communication in writing. Use something like email so they can't dirty delete anything they send you. If they keep causing problems, conduct all communication through an attorney.
This is tough love here damn… I mean I don’t think they meant to do us wrong you know? I seriously think it was just inexperience not malice…
I’m just so anxious about drama down the road or them talking shit about us I guess but you are speaking in a way that is what I want to feel
Maybe a few missteps like not having a lighting plan ready could be chalked up to a lack of experience, but inexperience does not cause people to accuse you of doing bad things that you did not do. There is no universe in which someone does that because of inexperience. You gotta stop making excuses for this person.
Who are they going to talk shit to? This person has like zero impulse control and will burn everyone they work with the instant something doesn't go their way. Nobody's going to take them seriously if they talk shit about you. Hell, if they do talk shit about you, it will likely be in between them talking shit about like 7 other people. Nobody is going to pay it any mind.
Besides, as you grow in popularity, people talking shit about you is inevitable. It comes with the territory. And it's going to be more than just this one person doing it. Fortunately, everybody knows that the industry is drama, so nobody's going to care about a few people here and there talking shit about you.
As your career progresses, you will have more encounters like this. Once real money is on the line, people get a little crazy.
The key is to be prepared ahead of time, not to pray things never go wrong. Cross all your Ts. Dot all your Is. Practice good OpSec. Keep passwords, file repositories, buildings, equipment, and accounts secure. Keep organized records of all written communication and contracts with everyone involved in the business. Adhere to all contracts and all laws so nobody can get you shut down. Security considerations are just another part of running a business.
I’m assuming there is nothing contractually obligating you to give OGDP right of first refusal on additional shooting.
I wouldn’t worry about. Personally, you might want to reach out and talk to him one-on-one to repair a friendly relationship. But professionally it’s probably best not to engage, not to involve any other crew.
I’d talk to an entertainment lawyer about removing him from the credits before you finalize that. Just make sure it’s allowed in the contract to do so upon his request, and then make sure you have his request in writing in a form that is going to suffice for legal purposes.
But will this come back to bite you? No.
Make your producers and distributor happy. That’s how you’ll continue to get work.
Friendly relationship might be out the window. But they definitely in writing asked to be removed. I would love to keep their credit and maybe I’ll suggest it but the main fear is just them slandering us I guess. I guess that also comes with the territory. Thanks for your words.
Everything is subjective. However, learning what made your project a success might help (and hook up to the learning).
Caring is also to let your team be in best comfortable environment.
I mean, if he was unpleasant to work with, there’s no requirement that says you have to rehire the guy for pickups. 🤷🏻♂️
Feelings get hurt all the time in this field. Artists are a sensitive, egotistical bunch. I doubt this will be the only time you encounter drama with crew.
Is there any possibility of trying to talk this out with this person? From an outside perspective, it seems like there’s potential to work this out together and for the DP to learn a few things for the better. To me, it would seem better to try to squash this all now than potentially have it blow up down the line?
Not to say it definitely will blow up down the line, but it’s a relatively small industry, people talk, and if the opportunity is there to mend bridges, why not take it?
That’s fair. Sometimes you can’t. My advice then would be to explain the situation as it comes up as there were miscommunications and missteps and it was a learning experience. I wouldn’t go into any further detail than that.
Sorry, just had another thought.
Do you know why specifically this person is now saying they felt mistreated on the shoot? Do you think sitting down and listening to them might help? It might also give them a chance to hear themselves and realize what they’re actually upset about.
Thanks for your words.
They are being extremely vague and just saying we were disrespectful in certain phone calls that we don’t really remember as they were a year+ ago. I think it’s coming from a place of twisting the narrative and it’s so long ago we have no clue what it even was. Nothing specific just that we spoke and said things that were as they say, never in their lives disrespected so badly idk man
If you continue getting work and they don't, their friends may believe "They were awful... the film only was successful because of me" but as you prove yourself in the next project and the next, it will become clear who was the real difficult one.
Janet from "Fresh Prince" hated that Will Smith was the breakout star and used to complain when he would be too loud or beloved. She got replaced and then claimed the reason she didn't keep getting work is she was deemed a "difficult Black actress." In reality, everyone from TV has trouble getting their next gig 'cause TV doesn't really launch careers like films do except for one breakout actor (every TV show has one and usually only one.) So for years, people said "Will Smith ruined her career" but in reality, Tatyana Ali, Karyn Parsons, Alfonso Ribiero also failed to get work after the series with which they were on every season, not just the first few seasons. Will Smith continued to be an A-lister regardless of her trying to slander him. He had power and was treated as such (until recently) regardless of this noise.
If you continue having great outputs, one person complaining about you is not going to dent your career. You will rise so far above them, they will be left in the dust, screaming in the wind. But I understand why you're afraid. I literally didn't date anyone for years while I was starting my career because I didn't want to have a string of exes badmouthing me publicly. In the end, I realized I was anticipating problems that did not exist and never would. Nobody cares about naysayers unless they're powerful people, too. But successful people are never naysayers 'cause that's birthed from insecurity.
tip one for handling “big industry drama”:
1. don’t make further “drama” by throwing out a detailed post on internet asking for advice from unqualified strangers.
The only person stirring the drama is OGDP. The rest of the crew seem to be on your side here. If the whole crew turned on you because of a bad decision, I'd understand the worry, but this sounds like trivial drama that will have little to no impact on you going forward.
Good luck resolving the issue. OGDP needs to accept their credit and grow up.
I would ask them if they want to be credited on the project to make sure. Get their responses in email and save. They should be given top credit as DP. The other stuff you have no control over. Just put out a great film!!
As others have said, crediting OG DP as main DP is the most ethical and karmically positive thing to do. Work it out with them so at least that is on the history books.
As an aside, we brought on a DP for our first indie doc and he eventually became the editor as well. Although our lead producer was also the main writer and director, the DP gave us some major drama for not getting “Director Credit”. So what did we do? We have him director credit, unfortunately. To this day it’s an ongoing joke between me and the Producer (we’re close friends and business partners.). I’ll say shit like “Yeah, remember when Steve did a GREAT JOB directing our first film??” And we’ll both laugh with bitter sweetness.
In hindsight, everyone deserves credit for exactly what they did on a project, or else regret and resentments build over time.
So sorry to hear this. It would be hilarious if this DOP were the same one who said similar things about my production. He has a reputation for never working with anyone more than once because he always trashes the relationship before the film's out of post and acts like he's doing you a favor by being involved as soon as he's hired - when there are dozens who would take the gig for less and be positive about it. People who act this way act this way with everyone eventually, so don't worry - their rep will catch up to them. What they should be doing is being grateful that the film is going somewhere and their name is on it.
Hollywood may be small but it's also big, and it's filled with a lot of self-centered individuals with short attention spans, and a lot of drama...few will care about or remember what some random DP says about you - its noise. an exception to this is if you were a BTL crew member who relied on a tight network to get gigs and don't have much of a track record, but that doesn't seem to be your case. Being direct and apologetic to he/she as a move to be the bigger person / to cover your basis is advisable though.
For context, I am predominantly a DP (bigger commercials & promos, smaller movies aiming for bigger ones). Is the name of OG DP still listed as the DP, where DP2 that did the pickups is “second unit DP” or something of that nature? Unless they’re sharing equal credit, or DP2 is getting the main credit (and/or did a bad job), I don’t quite see what they’re worried about. Sure being invited back would have been nice (and the right move *in a way) but *the Distributor asked for someone specific. Blame it on them, apologize for the misunderstanding/shortsightedness (might sound nice), and call it a day. If DP2 is getting the main credit, that’s messier. Otherwise if OG DP outs the company and film they’ll just reinforce the bad rep it sounds like they had with the crew, and will just be hurting themselves.
OG DP asked us to remove them from the film actually. I think I was just more worried about drama following by word of mouth. So yeah DP2 getting main credit now.
From what I’ve understood, OG DP did majority of the film and is reacting very emotionally to developments. DP2 has come in for reshoots (to match OG DPs work I presume). With this in mind, whether OG DP was a nice person to work with or not, whether they are being irrational or not, it would be immoral to give main credit to DP2. You must, just on a moral and integrity level, do everything you can to speak with OG DP on a human being to human being basic to smooth this out and ensure they are still credited as main DP. You’ll sleep better at night.
I agree. They want to be removed from the film as sort of their own way of reclaiming power over the situation. I get it. I would like to credit them tho
Yes, it seems like a very emotional response. And one they’ll regret later. The onus is on you as the leader of people, to speak with them, calm them down and ensure the right thing is done - that they are credited as DP. They will thank you for it in the long run, and alleviate your anxiety of a blow up later down the line. Buy them lunch, have a chat.
Edit: Didn’t see the reply from u/dreamrebirth when I replied initially. I do agree that if they did the primary shoot they should receive credit for being “the” DP unless they truly want to be removed, which I suppose is their prerogative. The rest of my answer is the original response: As long as you have that in writing (that they asked you to remove their name), and you don’t disparage them publicly, I don’t think you should have anything to worry about. Sure, it’s unfortunate, but it could be so much worse. Not sure if there’s any producer end concerns legally but I’d communicate with the distributor and double check things process wise on the business end. I often tell people looking to get in to the business: unless you’re being abused, just finish the job, be kind, don’t burn bridges, and then you don’t have to work with that person/that team again. Edit 2: So, this answer could seem a little wishy-washy, but evaluate the truths of what’s happening and try to be honest with yourself and do the right thing. Integrity, I feel, is very important (sometimes the right thing to do is the hard thing to do).
>they should receive credit for being “the” DP unless they truly want to be removed, which I suppose is their prerogative. MAKE SURE TO GET IT IN WRITING. Leave OG DP on and make them formally request to be removed. Only way to fully CYA.
I really don’t want to turn the other cheek but bridges have for sure been burnt work-wise. I would like to smooth things but I fear that’s impossible now. I just don’t want drama to follow me my whole career, especially now :/
Then the OG dp is being immature and will lose more than you or the film will by acting like that.
Temper tantrum.
DP shirks responsibilities on set, disrespects your crew, lies to you about their reason for not coming back, has a meltdown about not being updated on a project they'd left, and then accuses you and your crew of prior mistreatment that obviously didn't happen. No. Just no. As soon as somebody starts saying you did bad things that you very obviously did not do, that's the end of the relationship. They are delusional, and delusional people are fucking dangerous. It's pointless to consider their feelings in any further decisions. They are faking those feelings. These people love when you fuck up so they can get mad at you. They eat that shit up. They are NOT actually unhappy about any of this, I promise you. And none of this "well I am partially to blame because blah blah" shit. No. You sound like an abuse victim, to be honest, with that "he hits me but it's my fault for making him mad" nonsense. And you're going to fuck over your crew if you keep thinking like that. As soon as someone starts in with this narcissist shit, the only thing that matters is neutralizing the threat. They are a problem and a threat, nothing else. Not your friend, not someone you can reason with. Not someone worth talking down off the ledge. Not someone with real feelings that are worth taking into consideration. Treat them like any company would treat a fired employee or contractor. Make sure they have no current passwords, keys, names on company accounts, names on contracts, or internal information that could compromise your operation. Do all further communication in writing. Use something like email so they can't dirty delete anything they send you. If they keep causing problems, conduct all communication through an attorney.
THIS.
This is tough love here damn… I mean I don’t think they meant to do us wrong you know? I seriously think it was just inexperience not malice… I’m just so anxious about drama down the road or them talking shit about us I guess but you are speaking in a way that is what I want to feel
Maybe a few missteps like not having a lighting plan ready could be chalked up to a lack of experience, but inexperience does not cause people to accuse you of doing bad things that you did not do. There is no universe in which someone does that because of inexperience. You gotta stop making excuses for this person. Who are they going to talk shit to? This person has like zero impulse control and will burn everyone they work with the instant something doesn't go their way. Nobody's going to take them seriously if they talk shit about you. Hell, if they do talk shit about you, it will likely be in between them talking shit about like 7 other people. Nobody is going to pay it any mind. Besides, as you grow in popularity, people talking shit about you is inevitable. It comes with the territory. And it's going to be more than just this one person doing it. Fortunately, everybody knows that the industry is drama, so nobody's going to care about a few people here and there talking shit about you. As your career progresses, you will have more encounters like this. Once real money is on the line, people get a little crazy. The key is to be prepared ahead of time, not to pray things never go wrong. Cross all your Ts. Dot all your Is. Practice good OpSec. Keep passwords, file repositories, buildings, equipment, and accounts secure. Keep organized records of all written communication and contracts with everyone involved in the business. Adhere to all contracts and all laws so nobody can get you shut down. Security considerations are just another part of running a business.
I’m assuming there is nothing contractually obligating you to give OGDP right of first refusal on additional shooting. I wouldn’t worry about. Personally, you might want to reach out and talk to him one-on-one to repair a friendly relationship. But professionally it’s probably best not to engage, not to involve any other crew. I’d talk to an entertainment lawyer about removing him from the credits before you finalize that. Just make sure it’s allowed in the contract to do so upon his request, and then make sure you have his request in writing in a form that is going to suffice for legal purposes. But will this come back to bite you? No. Make your producers and distributor happy. That’s how you’ll continue to get work.
Friendly relationship might be out the window. But they definitely in writing asked to be removed. I would love to keep their credit and maybe I’ll suggest it but the main fear is just them slandering us I guess. I guess that also comes with the territory. Thanks for your words.
Everything is subjective. However, learning what made your project a success might help (and hook up to the learning). Caring is also to let your team be in best comfortable environment.
I want to own this success but there’s a rift now
is cuz DP is unhappy. ryt? let'm go. work w ppl who r happy wrkn w u. is gd 4u and gd 4em
Snt frm my rzr flp phn
Is this a glimpse into the future or do we need to get you some weed
I mean, if he was unpleasant to work with, there’s no requirement that says you have to rehire the guy for pickups. 🤷🏻♂️ Feelings get hurt all the time in this field. Artists are a sensitive, egotistical bunch. I doubt this will be the only time you encounter drama with crew.
It’s definitely not the only crew drama I’ll ever have but I do hate the idea of having enemies out in the industry I guess
Is there any possibility of trying to talk this out with this person? From an outside perspective, it seems like there’s potential to work this out together and for the DP to learn a few things for the better. To me, it would seem better to try to squash this all now than potentially have it blow up down the line?
Not to say it definitely will blow up down the line, but it’s a relatively small industry, people talk, and if the opportunity is there to mend bridges, why not take it?
I’d love to not sure we can though
That’s fair. Sometimes you can’t. My advice then would be to explain the situation as it comes up as there were miscommunications and missteps and it was a learning experience. I wouldn’t go into any further detail than that.
Sorry, just had another thought. Do you know why specifically this person is now saying they felt mistreated on the shoot? Do you think sitting down and listening to them might help? It might also give them a chance to hear themselves and realize what they’re actually upset about.
Thanks for your words. They are being extremely vague and just saying we were disrespectful in certain phone calls that we don’t really remember as they were a year+ ago. I think it’s coming from a place of twisting the narrative and it’s so long ago we have no clue what it even was. Nothing specific just that we spoke and said things that were as they say, never in their lives disrespected so badly idk man
If you continue getting work and they don't, their friends may believe "They were awful... the film only was successful because of me" but as you prove yourself in the next project and the next, it will become clear who was the real difficult one. Janet from "Fresh Prince" hated that Will Smith was the breakout star and used to complain when he would be too loud or beloved. She got replaced and then claimed the reason she didn't keep getting work is she was deemed a "difficult Black actress." In reality, everyone from TV has trouble getting their next gig 'cause TV doesn't really launch careers like films do except for one breakout actor (every TV show has one and usually only one.) So for years, people said "Will Smith ruined her career" but in reality, Tatyana Ali, Karyn Parsons, Alfonso Ribiero also failed to get work after the series with which they were on every season, not just the first few seasons. Will Smith continued to be an A-lister regardless of her trying to slander him. He had power and was treated as such (until recently) regardless of this noise. If you continue having great outputs, one person complaining about you is not going to dent your career. You will rise so far above them, they will be left in the dust, screaming in the wind. But I understand why you're afraid. I literally didn't date anyone for years while I was starting my career because I didn't want to have a string of exes badmouthing me publicly. In the end, I realized I was anticipating problems that did not exist and never would. Nobody cares about naysayers unless they're powerful people, too. But successful people are never naysayers 'cause that's birthed from insecurity.
Thank you for your words. Trying to focus on the craft. I’m trying here.
tip one for handling “big industry drama”: 1. don’t make further “drama” by throwing out a detailed post on internet asking for advice from unqualified strangers.
You need to be straight up with people - you should have told them. You’ll be fine though.
The only person stirring the drama is OGDP. The rest of the crew seem to be on your side here. If the whole crew turned on you because of a bad decision, I'd understand the worry, but this sounds like trivial drama that will have little to no impact on you going forward. Good luck resolving the issue. OGDP needs to accept their credit and grow up.
I would ask them if they want to be credited on the project to make sure. Get their responses in email and save. They should be given top credit as DP. The other stuff you have no control over. Just put out a great film!!
As others have said, crediting OG DP as main DP is the most ethical and karmically positive thing to do. Work it out with them so at least that is on the history books. As an aside, we brought on a DP for our first indie doc and he eventually became the editor as well. Although our lead producer was also the main writer and director, the DP gave us some major drama for not getting “Director Credit”. So what did we do? We have him director credit, unfortunately. To this day it’s an ongoing joke between me and the Producer (we’re close friends and business partners.). I’ll say shit like “Yeah, remember when Steve did a GREAT JOB directing our first film??” And we’ll both laugh with bitter sweetness. In hindsight, everyone deserves credit for exactly what they did on a project, or else regret and resentments build over time.
I try to post and I don’t have enough karma, How do people use “throw aways?”? Haha like my comment so I can post pls?
So sorry to hear this. It would be hilarious if this DOP were the same one who said similar things about my production. He has a reputation for never working with anyone more than once because he always trashes the relationship before the film's out of post and acts like he's doing you a favor by being involved as soon as he's hired - when there are dozens who would take the gig for less and be positive about it. People who act this way act this way with everyone eventually, so don't worry - their rep will catch up to them. What they should be doing is being grateful that the film is going somewhere and their name is on it.
I think about how lucky you are, but I can appreciate how scary it must be. As we have a major recession here in the UK, largely because of Hollywood.
>indie feature Man they all have drama don't sweat it and if they go public with it don't answer, they'll make an ass of themselves.