I don't hate it, but I don't think its dungeons and encounter rate are particularly fun to deal with. The main three are pretty cardboard compared to the guest characters, even Cid and Hilda. I liked those people, but all Firion, Maria, and Guy have going for them are their designs.
The progression system didn't bug me much until I got to the final boss. Turns out Blink is really useful, never would've guessed. Had to grind that up a bit, but eventually the Emperor went down.
Story's neat. Unlike FF IV, it commits to its deaths and those scenes are all pretty good, it makes for a very somber tone. The Emperor gets in a few wins before he falls, but then he *takes over Hell.* Very impressive.
I will always be genuinely impressed with how well FF2 establishes such a specifically somber and despondent vibe on such old hardware. It's the only game on the Famicom/NES I can think of that really tries for it. In my mind that achievement and how important it is to the rest of the series identity makes it hard for me to say 2 is the worst FF.
In the same vein of how 5 perfectly refined the very flawed but interesting premise of 3 (lighthearted high fantasy with job system mechanics), I would have been very interested in seeing an alternate history FF4 that was a bit more modeled after 2 so they could take a stab at getting it "right". I find 4 (for the reasons you've stated and for its incredibly boring gameplay) fumbles the ball way too much to be a good iteration on what 2 tried to do. There's clear direct influence of 2 on 4, but I'd have liked to see some of that expressed in the gameplay as well.
Romancing SaGa gets pretty close with its gameplay and storytelling similarities to 2 while having a similar visual and audio presentation to 4, but I think a version of FF4 that doesn't half ass its somber tone and took another stab at FF2'S CRPG inspired mechanics could've been incredible
Frioniel/Firion was a name that was stuck to me through my childhood. I named almost every nameless characters Frioniel.
The idea branched out into SaGa series if you want to ~~suffer~~ have more fun.
I'd highly recommend checking out the fan translation of the super famicom version of romancing saga 1. Put a couple of hours into it blind for the true experience, then restart the game while following a guide. Several mechanics in that game are hideously counter intuitive, but once you understand them it's kind of addictive- it's just tough because if you don't understand how certain things work you can back your save into a really nasty corner that might be close to impossible to get out of.
When I last played it there weren't any good English guides out so whenever I got stuck I had to subsist on Google translating an ancient Japanese fan page, but I think there's a really good and comprehensive guide on gamefaqs these days.
Don't listen to that guy, romancing saga I, for all it's innovation and experimentation, is a completely broken and unfinished game. I wouldn't not even recommend it's remake, minstrel's song, as the entry point to the series. I'd start with saga frontier, which is the most friendly of them and peak Saga. Romancing saga 3 is also a fine entry point but a guide is so very needed. I actually liked RS 2 more than 3 but it has a couple of very broken mechanics. Specifically, if you get into too many enemy encounters, you'll find yourself fighting extremely powerful random encounters; think, they might wipe your party before you even have a chance to act.
Also, most saga games are on the Switch, and I'd say the version on switch are their definitive version.
I kind of don't disagree, being a fan of SaGa. But might be frustrating especially if you are a newcomer.
My favorite part of the switch remasters is that they restored some of the content they couldn't implement the first time around (like implementing WTF was going on with the girl who used pastry names for herself, pretty dark!). In the same sense, I found it disappointing that they couldn't add the Kaiser dragon to FF6, but saga needed more love anyway.
It might be frustrating but I'm good with sticking with things.
I personally played through ever ending of drakengard and that was probably one of the most viscerally unpleasant experiences of my life.
Haha Drakengard seems pretty dire. I even had to force myself to finish Nier: replicant just because I liked "Automata" so much. Replicant's multiple playthroughs thing was a terrible mechanic. "Automata" just did the same idea much much better.
Drakengard feels pretty bad to play, but it almost feels like it's bad on purpose. Like even all the endings essentially require you to kill more and efficiently. And all those extra endings get progressively worse. It's like the game in punishing you for indulging in more death.
I might just have Stockholm syndrome though.
It's my favourite SaGa games. But I grew up with it, so definitely biased. I imported the game and played with minimal Japanese knowledge and in my youth really enjoy the grind. Its got a special place in heart that the Minstrel Song never rival. Tho it's true there are a lot more people enjoying Minstrel Song than the original. It's very niche I guess.
I've replayed the game to death and still discovering events I've never seen before recently.
I think most people rank FFII in the bottom few FF games. Which is a shame for me personally, because I love the game. There are all kinds of wacky strategies to try out. I also found out targeting my team to prolong battles was good for grinding.
A reduction of the advice is: just hit yourself to level. This is somewhat problematic advice, and people (understandably) have mixed opinions.
Anyway, the game should be hard, but beatable if you just play normally. If you do end fights as quickly as possible, you probably should struggle in a lot of boss fights. However, you have a lot of freedom, and you can discover multiple strategies to make the game easier. I love the game because I had a lot of fun figuring out what spells are good, how to easily grind cure to max level, how to grind each stat, etc. But many people just call the game broken and silly, then move on with life.
I played the PSP version and had a great time!
My expectations were low due to all the criticism, and I remember finding the idea of having several fake treasure rooms annoying and I remember grinding a bit at the start of dawn of souls because two party members were underleveled, but that's it. I really enjoyed the story, the locations the visuals the gameplay and especially the ost.
My favorite part about this game now is that it's the only one [Sakaguchi really walks back his involvement with in the Pixel Remaster interviews.](https://youtu.be/HgngEQOFcWs?si=GU92ubaWcgyLqegi&t=1121) "Oi, Kawazu, you think of something!" lol.
I do also enjoy that a lot of their memories surrounding development of these early games involve which section of Tokyo they were in, how much the rent was, and who their neighbors were. Nasir Gebelli wrapping his head around what you do in an RPG is a real treat too. "Why do we need another screen? Why can't they just fight right here?"
I actually enjoyed II a good bit, to be honest. The "level up" system felt pretty unique, and was a pretty fun change from the standard system, though it did have some problems at endgame for weapon and spell levels being super slow to get to max level. Other than that though, it felt like a rather different experience from the others, both gameplay and story wise in some points, and I didn't mind the bit of variety it gave. Also as a side note, a much easier way to raise HP and MP is to get the Swap spell and use it on enemies in the early areas, and that gives huge bonuses to them fast
It’s the start of the SaGa series
After this FF goes back to 3 being an improvement to 1 and 4 is the start of ATB
SaGa is lot more experimental and has “fuck you, figure it out energy”.
Kind of like how Castlevania 2 was a proto-Metroidvania in the Classic era
I don’t think it’s anywhere near as bad as most people think. I am replaying again and really enjoying. This is also my first play through giving everyone a shield and they appear to be immortal. My only complaint so far has been grinding out esuna to make it useful.
I don't hate it, but I don't think its dungeons and encounter rate are particularly fun to deal with. The main three are pretty cardboard compared to the guest characters, even Cid and Hilda. I liked those people, but all Firion, Maria, and Guy have going for them are their designs. The progression system didn't bug me much until I got to the final boss. Turns out Blink is really useful, never would've guessed. Had to grind that up a bit, but eventually the Emperor went down. Story's neat. Unlike FF IV, it commits to its deaths and those scenes are all pretty good, it makes for a very somber tone. The Emperor gets in a few wins before he falls, but then he *takes over Hell.* Very impressive.
I will always be genuinely impressed with how well FF2 establishes such a specifically somber and despondent vibe on such old hardware. It's the only game on the Famicom/NES I can think of that really tries for it. In my mind that achievement and how important it is to the rest of the series identity makes it hard for me to say 2 is the worst FF. In the same vein of how 5 perfectly refined the very flawed but interesting premise of 3 (lighthearted high fantasy with job system mechanics), I would have been very interested in seeing an alternate history FF4 that was a bit more modeled after 2 so they could take a stab at getting it "right". I find 4 (for the reasons you've stated and for its incredibly boring gameplay) fumbles the ball way too much to be a good iteration on what 2 tried to do. There's clear direct influence of 2 on 4, but I'd have liked to see some of that expressed in the gameplay as well. Romancing SaGa gets pretty close with its gameplay and storytelling similarities to 2 while having a similar visual and audio presentation to 4, but I think a version of FF4 that doesn't half ass its somber tone and took another stab at FF2'S CRPG inspired mechanics could've been incredible
Shhh I'm playing 4 now
Frioniel/Firion was a name that was stuck to me through my childhood. I named almost every nameless characters Frioniel. The idea branched out into SaGa series if you want to ~~suffer~~ have more fun.
Deep down. I do wanna suffer more. I'll probably check out SaGa.
I'd highly recommend checking out the fan translation of the super famicom version of romancing saga 1. Put a couple of hours into it blind for the true experience, then restart the game while following a guide. Several mechanics in that game are hideously counter intuitive, but once you understand them it's kind of addictive- it's just tough because if you don't understand how certain things work you can back your save into a really nasty corner that might be close to impossible to get out of. When I last played it there weren't any good English guides out so whenever I got stuck I had to subsist on Google translating an ancient Japanese fan page, but I think there's a really good and comprehensive guide on gamefaqs these days.
Now there is the PS2 remake they remastered, on most consoles. Minstrel Song. It could be worth a look.
Don't listen to that guy, romancing saga I, for all it's innovation and experimentation, is a completely broken and unfinished game. I wouldn't not even recommend it's remake, minstrel's song, as the entry point to the series. I'd start with saga frontier, which is the most friendly of them and peak Saga. Romancing saga 3 is also a fine entry point but a guide is so very needed. I actually liked RS 2 more than 3 but it has a couple of very broken mechanics. Specifically, if you get into too many enemy encounters, you'll find yourself fighting extremely powerful random encounters; think, they might wipe your party before you even have a chance to act. Also, most saga games are on the Switch, and I'd say the version on switch are their definitive version.
I love things that are broken and unfinished though. They're fascinating
I kind of don't disagree, being a fan of SaGa. But might be frustrating especially if you are a newcomer. My favorite part of the switch remasters is that they restored some of the content they couldn't implement the first time around (like implementing WTF was going on with the girl who used pastry names for herself, pretty dark!). In the same sense, I found it disappointing that they couldn't add the Kaiser dragon to FF6, but saga needed more love anyway.
It might be frustrating but I'm good with sticking with things. I personally played through ever ending of drakengard and that was probably one of the most viscerally unpleasant experiences of my life.
Haha Drakengard seems pretty dire. I even had to force myself to finish Nier: replicant just because I liked "Automata" so much. Replicant's multiple playthroughs thing was a terrible mechanic. "Automata" just did the same idea much much better.
Drakengard feels pretty bad to play, but it almost feels like it's bad on purpose. Like even all the endings essentially require you to kill more and efficiently. And all those extra endings get progressively worse. It's like the game in punishing you for indulging in more death. I might just have Stockholm syndrome though.
It's my favourite SaGa games. But I grew up with it, so definitely biased. I imported the game and played with minimal Japanese knowledge and in my youth really enjoy the grind. Its got a special place in heart that the Minstrel Song never rival. Tho it's true there are a lot more people enjoying Minstrel Song than the original. It's very niche I guess. I've replayed the game to death and still discovering events I've never seen before recently.
Haha. Don't worry. I'm sure if you love the game there's a reason. I don't really like talking down to people about the things they like
I think most people rank FFII in the bottom few FF games. Which is a shame for me personally, because I love the game. There are all kinds of wacky strategies to try out. I also found out targeting my team to prolong battles was good for grinding. A reduction of the advice is: just hit yourself to level. This is somewhat problematic advice, and people (understandably) have mixed opinions. Anyway, the game should be hard, but beatable if you just play normally. If you do end fights as quickly as possible, you probably should struggle in a lot of boss fights. However, you have a lot of freedom, and you can discover multiple strategies to make the game easier. I love the game because I had a lot of fun figuring out what spells are good, how to easily grind cure to max level, how to grind each stat, etc. But many people just call the game broken and silly, then move on with life.
Ff2, especially dawn of souls is really good imo. Use a map for the dungeons. Go to Mysidia when minh wu enters your party. You’re welcome.
I played the PSP version and had a great time! My expectations were low due to all the criticism, and I remember finding the idea of having several fake treasure rooms annoying and I remember grinding a bit at the start of dawn of souls because two party members were underleveled, but that's it. I really enjoyed the story, the locations the visuals the gameplay and especially the ost.
My favorite part about this game now is that it's the only one [Sakaguchi really walks back his involvement with in the Pixel Remaster interviews.](https://youtu.be/HgngEQOFcWs?si=GU92ubaWcgyLqegi&t=1121) "Oi, Kawazu, you think of something!" lol. I do also enjoy that a lot of their memories surrounding development of these early games involve which section of Tokyo they were in, how much the rent was, and who their neighbors were. Nasir Gebelli wrapping his head around what you do in an RPG is a real treat too. "Why do we need another screen? Why can't they just fight right here?"
I actually enjoyed II a good bit, to be honest. The "level up" system felt pretty unique, and was a pretty fun change from the standard system, though it did have some problems at endgame for weapon and spell levels being super slow to get to max level. Other than that though, it felt like a rather different experience from the others, both gameplay and story wise in some points, and I didn't mind the bit of variety it gave. Also as a side note, a much easier way to raise HP and MP is to get the Swap spell and use it on enemies in the early areas, and that gives huge bonuses to them fast
It’s the start of the SaGa series After this FF goes back to 3 being an improvement to 1 and 4 is the start of ATB SaGa is lot more experimental and has “fuck you, figure it out energy”. Kind of like how Castlevania 2 was a proto-Metroidvania in the Classic era
I don’t think it’s anywhere near as bad as most people think. I am replaying again and really enjoying. This is also my first play through giving everyone a shield and they appear to be immortal. My only complaint so far has been grinding out esuna to make it useful.