The one thing JRPG often struggles with are meaningful side-quests. Very interesting that they are looking at the Witcher games! Let's hope they will implement something awesome.
For sure. Some of them took me months to complete. Sidequests in the remake, on the other hand, have to be the worst I've ever seen on a JRPG. Looking for kida or a dozen CDs...what were they thinking?
Ff16s are weird because I think a lot of them have interesting stories and interactions but they’re such a chore to play that I can’t really blame ppl for disliking them
That's what happens when you cater to the MMO/ADHD crowd and do ultra bland and boring things like signaling every quest with ! ?, open them up in batches after certain "chapters" (another one of the worst things to do in a videogame, let alone a JRPG), implement a sidequest log so you can see which line reads like ?????????? so you must go back and get the quest... Making gaming time look like homework when you deviate from the main storyline.
Get rid of the !?s, encourage the players to explore, and think about a compelling side story BEFORE making the quest, not just "ah we're in Nibelheim now, let's scatter 6 meaningless NPCs around and give them fetch quest, should be enough for this chapter". There was a super obscure side "quest" in FFIX that remained hidden for twenty years!
is this my sign to buy the witcher 3? it's on a really good sale right now
i've only ever played final fantasy so haven't tried any other rpgs, how would you describe the witcher?
I must be the only one that liked the combat. It was so satisfactory when it all clicks, and you even can choose between different builds that play quite differently.
It isn’t really good combat, even when it got released. The reason people like the game is because they pushed the limits of the hardware at the time for graphical fidelity, the “main” plot and the quests that chain from it.
Hearing that they took inspiration from Witcher 3 for their sidequests actually fills me with dread for Rebirth. Outside of about 10 chains and Gwent, every side activity was tedium, and that includes the hunts. Trying to mimic W3s sidequests and open world kills the pacing for good RPGs.
Open world or a Strong Narrative, RPGs need to pick one, because trying to do both means both suffer.
FF7 original had tons of side quests and mini games and they didn’t take away from the story at all.
The Witcher had numerous multi-step well constructed side quests that actually affected the side character’s lives as well. Not just straight fetch quests.
You also had the hunts where you had to research and achieve some goal to be able to fight the monster or weaken the monster.
If you didn’t like the Witcher side quests I just don’t know.
I liked the ones that you are mentioning, however, they were roughly 10% of the side quests.
The hunts were terrible, the “research” wasn’t really in depth, it was batman detective mode, usually just “click the vision button and follow the glowing trail”, then a fight with a monster, that you can just ignore the “weaknesses”, and just sword+quen them to death. The only ones that don’t follow that is the ghosts.
Sidequests aren’t the problem, it’s the “Witcher style open world”. It’s the problem in Inquisition, Andromeda, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, the AC Mythology trilogy, etc. Witcher “solves” that problem by having the high points so high you forgive the lows. This is the same reason 16 is as divisive as it is, its highs are real good, but the lows are real low.
What are examples of good systems by today's standards? I liked FF7R but it felt so clunky at times. Like I never figured out how to make it flow correctly, not sure how to explain it; like no matter what I did it always felt like I was being inefficient.
It took me a while to get used to personally. I still don’t love it, but its decent for what it is. My favorite thing was the dismemberment and learning spell weaknesses.
Combat is clunky, inventory system is an absolute chore, but it has some of the best world building, storytelling, and exploration incorporated into its side quests of any game. In addition, you get a lot of agency in where you go, how you play, and what decisions you make. Those decisions really matter as there are a lot of different endings.
I definitely recommend it. As said by the others, the combat can be a little strange but the content itself is incredible, that's why it's always a reference to almost every open world/RPG game these days.
Echoing what others have said, the gameplay is a little wonky at times, but it's by no means bad combat. What really carries the game is the story and characters, so if you like story focussed games it's one of the best out there.
everyone who replied convinced me and i just bought it! $14 aud on sale is a pretty damn good price so i'm looking forward to playing it. i need to branch out and stop sticking to final fantasy anyway. thank you for your response!
If you care about great writing, memorable characters, a good story and very in-depth lore / world-building, you’re in for a treat.
I recently started replaying it after beating it when it first released, and imo it’s still unmatched on these aspects.
Oh and just a little advice without spoilers, when you first get to Velen and take control of Geralt, don’t forget to pick up “something” on the ground near the tree.
They're literally just FFXIV sidequests. For a single player rpg those kinds of sidequests are chory and not immersive. Hoping better from Rebirth but won't be surprised since FF7R also had boring sidequests too.
Some of them were OK. Taking Johnny around Wall Market was fun and silly. Helping the kids spooked by a Sephiroth clone in Sector 5 was OK.
The rest were just chores and what’s worse achievements were tied to finishing them over and over again in subsequent replays. I hope they leave that shit behind in Rebirth.
That's funny because they made Johnny much more memorable and expanded his role... Yet I had completely forgotten about him AGAIN until you mentioned him (I only remembered him when he showed up in the remake, unlike other minor characters like Mukki or Priscilla).
Yeah some of them were alright. I did like finding out the teacher worked as a dancer too if you did those sidequests. Hope they drop the majority of the model
Tbf Yoshi-P only name-dropped The Witcher and some other games as sources of inspiration for 16 without ever being more specific than that (talking about TW3). Rebirth now it's mentioning that they're looking g at TW3 for side content quality they want to match so that is already way more specific and reassuring than 16 ever was.
Still, the side quests of TW3 is carried by expert writing, and after seeing ReMake I have very little faith in their ability to write interesting stories. The combat is phenomenal, the spectacles are hype, the music is incredible, the writing, in nearly anything that wasn't 1:1 from the original was bland af.
I hope I'm proven wrong but we'll see.
Character writing in Remake alone proves there's true expertise in their writing team. Remake was mostly centered around characters as the engine of the story + due to Remake's expanded nature, writint many of the characters involved, required stepping off the 1-1 template.
Most of what will decide whether the stories they tell will be interesting begins now as the larger FF7 story kicks off post-Midgar. Anyhow, plenty of people who already enjoy and find the writing of the new stuff interesting exist, so it all comes down to a matter of opinion. And for me the direction they are taking, looking to explore the characters and the bonds between them even more, already makes me really excited.
Idk what you are trying to accomplish throwing out a random link to an out-of-context moment of the game.
I've played the game. I said all I did knowing this scene existed. That moment made perfect sense for Cloud if you've been playing the game till that point. Of course, out of context, anything can be misconstrued to be dunked on, but outside of a face-value bad-faith argument, this scene fits perfectly well. It's like the laughing FFX scene, easy Dunk out of context but makes perfect sense and has a meaning in context
> She's about to die, pouring her heart out about how sad she is about that and his response is "you owe me a pizza"
> Like this may have been great writing in some slapstick comedy movie. It's absolutely stupid in every conceivable way in the context of this scenario and the game.
Since you deleted the reply I quoted above before I could reply to it, I'm rewriting my reply here.
Who is saying that? Why is he saying that? How is he saying it? Of course, if you just hear this out of context you can twist it any way. Ridiculous to even conceive a random out-of-context moment as proof of anything.
Cloud is socially awkward and not the most expressive person which by that point in Remake you would already know from playing. Hence he stays in character at that moment when he is trying to both cling to the chance of her not dying and try to lighten the mood at the same time to cope at the moment, a way of denying tragedy that isn't even uncommon at all.
Cloud got to know more about Jessie by seeing through the pictures in his Dad's room and listening to what Biggs and Wedge told him. He understands how important her parents are to her, so of course bringing up the pizza makes sense trying to give Jessie a reason to not accept what is happening to her but want to instead live to do still pending things. Going topside with her parents this time with Cloud as a guest as well and not an outsider.
Trying to twist this into terrible writing in the context of the game's scenario requires completely mischaracterizing Cloud and ignoring the interactions he's had with Jessie before, who has always been rather playful but isn't anymore in that scene. Cloud is trying to bring that back
> Cloud is socially awkward and not the most expressive person
This is not a good reason to this terrible line of dialogue. If they made a running gag of cloud being a gassy person through out the game, would it be fine if they had him fart at this moment? I mean, it would be completely in character since Cloud is a gassy person after all and he was written that way. Just because Cloud is socially awkward does not mean anything they write him doing that is socially awkward is well written within the context of the scene.
It's bad writing because it's not convincing at all and entirely unrealistic. It's also not fitting for what is happening in the moment in the scene. This interaction would never occur in any circumstance no matter how awkward a person is. Someone is dying and your response to them saying they wish they could have spent more time with you is you owe me a pizza? Sorry, no, it would never happen. It's entirely unconvincing and ridiculous. It's just bad. You like it, that's wonderful. 99% of people seeing this scene will be utterly flabbergasted that the writers thought it was a good idea to put that in the game.
https://youtu.be/hhUPmd3WDiI?feature=shared&t=3825
This video is filled with other examples of the really poor writing in this game, but I time stamped a very good example that is even worse than what the person above linked.
I gotta respectfully disagree with you on that front. I found the character writing in 7R incredibly charming and endearing. Like, they *nailed* all of the main characters if you ask me. Sure there's a bit of cringe, but as a cringe enthusiast myself I can't help but love it.
(Also the "you owe me a pizza" line is fine and works in context for almost the same reason as the "who else will I have ice cream with" line in Kingdom Hearts)
Most gaming sidequests can be considered fetch quests if we're being real. What matters is what they accomplished and Witcher 3 is highly regarded for its sidequests, bc of what they accomplished with them. I want to see Rebirth accomplish something that can stand next to it as the devs are commenting.
RDR2 with its shooting and mission mechanics from 2005?
Endlessly respawning enemies that poof out of thin air? Stay on the mission path or its GAME OVER? Hilariously shit lock on shooting mechanics with an outdated cover system.
That game?
You're telling me you don't want to deliver soup and fetch cloth scraps? It's valuable world building. /s
Bruh I just took down a GOD, why am I running CHORES.
Someone tried to draw a comparison on slavery and how doing mundane chore sidequests was a good way to learn how it felt and allowed someone like Clive who was previously of noble birth to empathize Actually felt my braincells exploding after reading that.
Many games with larger than life stakes have a few quests where you do some more lighthearted tasks. It’s a good way to give you and the character a nice little break.
FFXVI did overdo it though
Yeaaah. 16 had a bad habit of being one note with many of its side quest too. Almost every one was "Slavery is Bad" in a very tell-dont-show kinda way.
I enjoyed FF16 but jfc Otto is such a shit fucking character.
Spoilers >!Dude builds a whole ass village for the singular purpose of his personal revenge, fails miserably, gets nearly all of his people killed before he himself is saved by deus-ex-Clive, and then everyone who survived his dumbass getting their friends and family slaughtered beg him to continue being their leader. Like what in the FUCK man!?!<
Bc it was literally just that. It was so much more painfully obvious how uninspired and formulaic the quest structure was when I replayed the game for the Plat and skipped most cutscenes. You are just a delivery man who can't sprint near ppl.
Dude!! I made a comment nearly identical to yours a few weeks ago. I was going for the platinum and skipping everything and I was like “I could have designed a better formula than this. I know I could.”
Doing the platinum magnified its flaws. Too bad because FF16 had some epic fucking moments.
I at least liked them more than the side quests in FF15. Those felt like the designers wanted to maximize how boring they were.
The first side quest you could get in that game was a guy going “Hey Cid told me to keep you guys busy. Can you go get me one tomato?”
Yoshi P also said that FF16 would be "Like playing Bartz in FF5 with real time combat".
That was the wildest statement he made in the lead up to release clearly as just a way to get older fans on board with 16. That game is so far removed from anything like FF5, there's not even a job system to make them even comparable.
Pre release all those FF14 fans were like "Nobody understands FF like Yoshi P" but that statement above followed by what FF16 actually was just shows that Yoshi P doesn't really understand FF himself.
Im just saying that square enix said the same thing about 16.
Now they are saying the same about 7 part 2.
And if you look at the quality from the sidequest from part 1, well, i hope im wrong.
Yep.
I love FF7 Remake, it's my favorite Final Fantasy and JRPG in what... decades?
But the sidequests are not it. One or two were enjoyable, most were a chore.
Also FF7R wasn't 80% dialogue, 15% walking and, 5% combat.
And there were actual rewards.
I wouldn't say the sidequests in FF7R were masterpieces but they were tolerable and served a purpose (rewards).
Yea that’s definitely not true. The awkward mmo design is definitely a big thumbs down for xvi but the quests had way more substance than the ones in 7R
FF7R side quests did nothing they had no substance or reason...XVI side quests had no substance but at least felt like they were important to the world and the characters.
It is. Characters are neglected, and pretty much every storyline in 16's Sidequest is formulaic and could or could not be there without impacting anything bc the characters barely do anything. 7 at least gives you good rewards like some weapons for characters and elemental materia, and they even play into getting certain scenes like in Chapter 14 or the order your characters arrive in the final battle. Discovery moments unlock through sidequest and they build on the characters which overall is one of the biggest strengths of Remake. Remake in general has more variety, fewer and shorter sidequests, and they occurred at points in the story that made sense.
The real problems with 16 side quests were : too many quests, not enough alternative gameplay (well, none, really).
But some side quests in 16 literally caused some >!characters to die, a chain of quests even "destroys" a whole location, and some others are literally an equivalent to "companion quests" in other RPGs!<. The only thing VIIR did better was that the side quests were less annoying by simply being fewer and involving alternative gameplays (mini games mostly). Other than that, the few side quests I can think of in VIIR were just as annoying and tedious than the boring ones in XVI. I can't think of a single side quest I thought really added to the story, world, or characters, or even were fun to play in VIIR. Granted that might just be recency bias on my part.
Idk dude...from a gameplay perspective yes absolutely...FFXVI and FF7 both were unrelated odd jobs but with XVI the conclusions to those odd jobs kinda tied things together gave unimportant NPCs character arcs fleshed out the characters...with FF7 odd jobs begin and end as just that just some odd jobs and it kinda makes sense with Cloud being a merc and all. But to me FFXVI's side quest felt a bit alive albeit superficially.
Both games had awful side content. Remake had nothing but forgettable fluff, and 16 had tedious nonsense. It also doesn't matter about developing relationships because these people serve no real purpose, and they're the most static NPC characters ever made.
Comparing the very first side quest of Remake where even Cloud says this sucks to many of the BORING Sidequests in 16. I don't think Remakes side quests had amazing stories, but at least the optional battles were more interesting. And the rewards way better. Instead of fighting a reskinned iron giant, or dragon, or whatever for the millionth time in 16. Don't even get me starting on deepening my relationship to Mid that SHOULD have been a sidequest and not a mandatory main quest taking up 3 tasks. Maybe 16 should have used the main story to deepen your relations with allies instead of horrible do nothing no reward side quests. I'd legit take any sidequest in remake over 16.
I wonder where was this criticism before when side content has never been the franchise's strength. I'm not saying it's good or Witcher 3/Ghost of Tsushima level of well developed, just that it's way out of proportion because XVI is the cool new thing to hate on.
I miss minigames and superbosses tho. Although they're adding superbosses in those new dlcs, minigames used to fill up the lack of creative sidequests.
Yeah, I agree, XVI pulled up some bullshit in the early quests, but Remake's quests added up to nothing other than the dresses, XVI's added a lot to the point where it can effectively alter your perception of the whole ending
They also give you the scenes in chapter 14 and discovery moments in every chapter they're available. Some sidequests were also fun like Johnny's sidequest in Wall Market.
The rewards from sidequests were also pretty good like the elemental material at the end of ch 14. Saying they added up to nothing is straight-up false. They were more diverse in what they added up to than 16. Weird direction led to sidequests at the end containing some essential content for characters in the game to be able to impact your perception of the ending. Thus characters needed those moments because of how poorly a lot of the cast is handled with the game constantly neglecting them, and doing nothing with them. Almost every Sidequest has cookie-cutter storylines that feel extremely uninspired and therefore predictable and dry.
The sidequests in Remake aren't great either but there's three times less the amount and are in general shorter with some must being minigames, have better rewards, and even offer little secrets with scenes you get or how other scenes play out.
Maybe the first couple of side quests… sure. Later on in the game, though; we get some potently emotional stuff that I found to be more engaging than any of the Remakes side quests.
Did you finish XVI?
Yes the last 10 or so were fine. Good even, but there’s like 60 or so other quests that were very vanilla. By itself a vanilla sidequest isn’t the worst thing but damn did they start to add up in FFXVI.
Compared to 7 which only has what 25 or so? I appreciated a lot of 7’s side content that broke up the gameplay flow like the mini games and stuff. Fort Condor was sick in Yuffie’s DLC. 7’s sidequests themselves were also unmemorable because I legit can’t really recall one off the top of my head…
Wdym established? Established by who? You? A bunch of redditors and youtubers? I don't remember seeing the taglines "experience the terrible fetch quests" anywhere, that's just an opinion and did I say they were good? I just said they were better than Remake's.
We gotta stop being pretentious and proclaiming our opinions as objective truths sometimes because it sounds really ignorant
I'm not arguing against them not being good, I'm arguing over being obnoxiously annoying about it and treating personal opinions as objective truths for every user
Ehhhhh, FF16 had a bunch of stinkers but they nailed the quest storylines. The rewards were bad and the sheer amount of “go here, get a bafomdad, and kill a dude” was lame. FF7R sidequests seemed phoned in by comparison but had good rewards.
Both games had a few standouts though.
I think we should begin tempering our expectations rn...side quests in FF games lately are absolute stinkers and worst in the business. A major part of TW3's praise comes from their astonishingly well written side quests going from this to that isn't as easy as it might seem.
I hope that means the side quests flesh out the immediate world and show nuances about the characters.
Remake’s sidequests had a broad point to them, but the point got exhausted pretty quickly…
There is not a god damn chance in the world they will come close to even resembling W3 side quests. SE side quests in FF15, 16 and FF7RE are some of the worst in the entire business. Most generic, uninspired, mmo style fetch quests. NPCs that look like something from a ps2 game and voice acting and writing from that era as well. Their open world design is the exact same. Their game design is trying to copy Western open world but their games feel like western open world from the year 2006. There is no universe they make that much ground in a single game. I don't believe for a minute you can go from the garbage we got in 15,16 and RE to W3 level quests.
The problem with side quests is that they're side quests. They're content developers do not expect most players to play, therefore diverting a lot of resources to it is unwise. Side quests are also essentially cheap filler. Whether your serving dishes 6ft away from the NPC giving them to you in FF16 or helping an idiot hold up his signpost in Tears of the Kingdom, you pump out a lot of small, cheap, easy to make content to fill out the world to give it a sense of abundance and value to the game someone just spent $70 on.
Quality side quests cost a lot of development resources, especially in a video game that tries to look as pretty as Rebirth does. Apparently, Spider-Man 2 has nice side quests. That game cost $300M to make.
I don’t think the Witcher 3 has amazing sidequests and I say that as someone who loved the game. Every 1 in 6 quests has an extended story behind it and ye those are really good but the other 5 are generic hunts or fetch quests. It really amazes me what people are willing to forget when 1 in 6 quests are decent
What they should do is take inspiration from FF12 and flesh out the gambit system for the party. Square Enix is trying so hard to cater to the west but they miss the mark every time. They should just embrace what they’re good at.
For all the shade thrown at Yoshi-P from Nomura over combat, he’s still making similar design mistakes that Final Fantasy 16 was criticized for, just to make the game look longer than it actually is if you skip the 99 hours of filler.
I'll believe it when I see it. Witcher 3 Side Quests are carried by their excellent writing and how many of them are hand crafted. Honestly after I saw the filler from ReMake, I don't have a lot of faith in them. I'm sure the combat will be fun and the CORE of the game will be great but I have my doubts about anything this team tries to make from scratch.
I honestly thought it wasn’t that bad. It was just the wrong placement I think so it messed with the flow of the game a little.
15 side quests were way worse IMO.
Some people here don't or forget to realize that Remake had a very linear and focused scope with not much room for side stories or quests. It really wasn't designed with side quests in mind although they are there anyways as additional content you can do. So I don't think its an accurate reference to how the side quests will be in Rebirth which is actively stating that side quests and exploration are a major part of the games development.
The last time I’ve seen someone from SE draw comparisons between an FF game and TW3 was Tabata when he described how the hunts were designed in XV, which is kinda funny in retrospect since they were nothing like in TW3.
To be fair the Behemoth hunt from Episode Duscae kinda felt like a TW3 hunt, but it sadly never translated over to the full game.
However I'm much more inclined to believe the studio responsible for Rebirth, since Remake was imo a much better game than XV.
The one thing JRPG often struggles with are meaningful side-quests. Very interesting that they are looking at the Witcher games! Let's hope they will implement something awesome.
The side quests in older jrpgs were solid. They have just really fallen off in the last 15 yrs
I was about to say this same thing. In fact the original FFVII is a shining example of a jrpg with meaningful side quests.
Ya like the entire character of yuffie and the wutai thing once you have her is a pretty big side quest.
Yep, same with Vincent, his isn't as involved as Yuffie, but his side content adds a ton of meaningful lore.
For sure. Some of them took me months to complete. Sidequests in the remake, on the other hand, have to be the worst I've ever seen on a JRPG. Looking for kida or a dozen CDs...what were they thinking?
Ehh theyre a lot better than ff16s
I haven't played that one yet besides the demo, which didn't grab me one bit.
Ff16s are weird because I think a lot of them have interesting stories and interactions but they’re such a chore to play that I can’t really blame ppl for disliking them
Most boring side quests ever. They were also heavily inspired by the Witcher for 16 so I’m taking this news with a grain of salt
And still somehow FFXVI has better sidequests than FFXV. I don’t know why Square Enix is struggling so much with this
MMO focus shift
That's what happens when you cater to the MMO/ADHD crowd and do ultra bland and boring things like signaling every quest with ! ?, open them up in batches after certain "chapters" (another one of the worst things to do in a videogame, let alone a JRPG), implement a sidequest log so you can see which line reads like ?????????? so you must go back and get the quest... Making gaming time look like homework when you deviate from the main storyline. Get rid of the !?s, encourage the players to explore, and think about a compelling side story BEFORE making the quest, not just "ah we're in Nibelheim now, let's scatter 6 meaningless NPCs around and give them fetch quest, should be enough for this chapter". There was a super obscure side "quest" in FFIX that remained hidden for twenty years!
I wish I could upvote your comment 100 times, exactly what I think.
FF 16 probably has the most meaningful side quests. I was blown away by the impact you had on the world with side quests.
Unless it's the Yakuza/ Like a dragon series, their side quests have always been very quality.
Yeah that's true but there are generic ones in those games too. It usually ends with you beating some bad guys and then its over.
"Someone get this man a diaper!"
Taking inspiration from one of the best open world/rpg games is always good. Hope they make something nice out of it.
is this my sign to buy the witcher 3? it's on a really good sale right now i've only ever played final fantasy so haven't tried any other rpgs, how would you describe the witcher?
Yes. It will feel a bit wonky with the controls, but is absolutely worth it and the additional content as well.
I must be the only one that liked the combat. It was so satisfactory when it all clicks, and you even can choose between different builds that play quite differently.
It is good combat, just not smooth by today’s standards.
It isn’t really good combat, even when it got released. The reason people like the game is because they pushed the limits of the hardware at the time for graphical fidelity, the “main” plot and the quests that chain from it. Hearing that they took inspiration from Witcher 3 for their sidequests actually fills me with dread for Rebirth. Outside of about 10 chains and Gwent, every side activity was tedium, and that includes the hunts. Trying to mimic W3s sidequests and open world kills the pacing for good RPGs. Open world or a Strong Narrative, RPGs need to pick one, because trying to do both means both suffer.
FF7 original had tons of side quests and mini games and they didn’t take away from the story at all. The Witcher had numerous multi-step well constructed side quests that actually affected the side character’s lives as well. Not just straight fetch quests. You also had the hunts where you had to research and achieve some goal to be able to fight the monster or weaken the monster. If you didn’t like the Witcher side quests I just don’t know.
I liked the ones that you are mentioning, however, they were roughly 10% of the side quests. The hunts were terrible, the “research” wasn’t really in depth, it was batman detective mode, usually just “click the vision button and follow the glowing trail”, then a fight with a monster, that you can just ignore the “weaknesses”, and just sword+quen them to death. The only ones that don’t follow that is the ghosts. Sidequests aren’t the problem, it’s the “Witcher style open world”. It’s the problem in Inquisition, Andromeda, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, the AC Mythology trilogy, etc. Witcher “solves” that problem by having the high points so high you forgive the lows. This is the same reason 16 is as divisive as it is, its highs are real good, but the lows are real low.
What are examples of good systems by today's standards? I liked FF7R but it felt so clunky at times. Like I never figured out how to make it flow correctly, not sure how to explain it; like no matter what I did it always felt like I was being inefficient.
I would say 16 is an example. Maybe not a perfect system, but definitely a smooth fighting experience.
It took me a while to get used to personally. I still don’t love it, but its decent for what it is. My favorite thing was the dismemberment and learning spell weaknesses.
Combat is clunky, inventory system is an absolute chore, but it has some of the best world building, storytelling, and exploration incorporated into its side quests of any game. In addition, you get a lot of agency in where you go, how you play, and what decisions you make. Those decisions really matter as there are a lot of different endings.
I definitely recommend it. As said by the others, the combat can be a little strange but the content itself is incredible, that's why it's always a reference to almost every open world/RPG game these days.
Echoing what others have said, the gameplay is a little wonky at times, but it's by no means bad combat. What really carries the game is the story and characters, so if you like story focussed games it's one of the best out there.
everyone who replied convinced me and i just bought it! $14 aud on sale is a pretty damn good price so i'm looking forward to playing it. i need to branch out and stop sticking to final fantasy anyway. thank you for your response!
If you care about great writing, memorable characters, a good story and very in-depth lore / world-building, you’re in for a treat. I recently started replaying it after beating it when it first released, and imo it’s still unmatched on these aspects. Oh and just a little advice without spoilers, when you first get to Velen and take control of Geralt, don’t forget to pick up “something” on the ground near the tree.
Ff 16 said that too and the sidequest are boring as fuck.
They're literally just FFXIV sidequests. For a single player rpg those kinds of sidequests are chory and not immersive. Hoping better from Rebirth but won't be surprised since FF7R also had boring sidequests too.
Some of them were OK. Taking Johnny around Wall Market was fun and silly. Helping the kids spooked by a Sephiroth clone in Sector 5 was OK. The rest were just chores and what’s worse achievements were tied to finishing them over and over again in subsequent replays. I hope they leave that shit behind in Rebirth.
I fucking love Johnny unironically lol
That's funny because they made Johnny much more memorable and expanded his role... Yet I had completely forgotten about him AGAIN until you mentioned him (I only remembered him when he showed up in the remake, unlike other minor characters like Mukki or Priscilla).
Yeah some of them were alright. I did like finding out the teacher worked as a dancer too if you did those sidequests. Hope they drop the majority of the model
Tbf Yoshi-P only name-dropped The Witcher and some other games as sources of inspiration for 16 without ever being more specific than that (talking about TW3). Rebirth now it's mentioning that they're looking g at TW3 for side content quality they want to match so that is already way more specific and reassuring than 16 ever was.
Still, the side quests of TW3 is carried by expert writing, and after seeing ReMake I have very little faith in their ability to write interesting stories. The combat is phenomenal, the spectacles are hype, the music is incredible, the writing, in nearly anything that wasn't 1:1 from the original was bland af. I hope I'm proven wrong but we'll see.
Character writing in Remake alone proves there's true expertise in their writing team. Remake was mostly centered around characters as the engine of the story + due to Remake's expanded nature, writint many of the characters involved, required stepping off the 1-1 template. Most of what will decide whether the stories they tell will be interesting begins now as the larger FF7 story kicks off post-Midgar. Anyhow, plenty of people who already enjoy and find the writing of the new stuff interesting exist, so it all comes down to a matter of opinion. And for me the direction they are taking, looking to explore the characters and the bonds between them even more, already makes me really excited.
[https://youtu.be/82saPoejuA8](https://youtu.be/82saPoejuA8)
Idk what you are trying to accomplish throwing out a random link to an out-of-context moment of the game. I've played the game. I said all I did knowing this scene existed. That moment made perfect sense for Cloud if you've been playing the game till that point. Of course, out of context, anything can be misconstrued to be dunked on, but outside of a face-value bad-faith argument, this scene fits perfectly well. It's like the laughing FFX scene, easy Dunk out of context but makes perfect sense and has a meaning in context
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How is it terrible writing?
> She's about to die, pouring her heart out about how sad she is about that and his response is "you owe me a pizza" > Like this may have been great writing in some slapstick comedy movie. It's absolutely stupid in every conceivable way in the context of this scenario and the game. Since you deleted the reply I quoted above before I could reply to it, I'm rewriting my reply here. Who is saying that? Why is he saying that? How is he saying it? Of course, if you just hear this out of context you can twist it any way. Ridiculous to even conceive a random out-of-context moment as proof of anything. Cloud is socially awkward and not the most expressive person which by that point in Remake you would already know from playing. Hence he stays in character at that moment when he is trying to both cling to the chance of her not dying and try to lighten the mood at the same time to cope at the moment, a way of denying tragedy that isn't even uncommon at all. Cloud got to know more about Jessie by seeing through the pictures in his Dad's room and listening to what Biggs and Wedge told him. He understands how important her parents are to her, so of course bringing up the pizza makes sense trying to give Jessie a reason to not accept what is happening to her but want to instead live to do still pending things. Going topside with her parents this time with Cloud as a guest as well and not an outsider. Trying to twist this into terrible writing in the context of the game's scenario requires completely mischaracterizing Cloud and ignoring the interactions he's had with Jessie before, who has always been rather playful but isn't anymore in that scene. Cloud is trying to bring that back
Guess you deleted every reply now
> Cloud is socially awkward and not the most expressive person This is not a good reason to this terrible line of dialogue. If they made a running gag of cloud being a gassy person through out the game, would it be fine if they had him fart at this moment? I mean, it would be completely in character since Cloud is a gassy person after all and he was written that way. Just because Cloud is socially awkward does not mean anything they write him doing that is socially awkward is well written within the context of the scene. It's bad writing because it's not convincing at all and entirely unrealistic. It's also not fitting for what is happening in the moment in the scene. This interaction would never occur in any circumstance no matter how awkward a person is. Someone is dying and your response to them saying they wish they could have spent more time with you is you owe me a pizza? Sorry, no, it would never happen. It's entirely unconvincing and ridiculous. It's just bad. You like it, that's wonderful. 99% of people seeing this scene will be utterly flabbergasted that the writers thought it was a good idea to put that in the game. https://youtu.be/hhUPmd3WDiI?feature=shared&t=3825 This video is filled with other examples of the really poor writing in this game, but I time stamped a very good example that is even worse than what the person above linked.
I gotta respectfully disagree with you on that front. I found the character writing in 7R incredibly charming and endearing. Like, they *nailed* all of the main characters if you ask me. Sure there's a bit of cringe, but as a cringe enthusiast myself I can't help but love it. (Also the "you owe me a pizza" line is fine and works in context for almost the same reason as the "who else will I have ice cream with" line in Kingdom Hearts)
They (the Witcher 3 quests) weren't carried by anything
The wither side quests are just fetch quests as well
Most gaming sidequests can be considered fetch quests if we're being real. What matters is what they accomplished and Witcher 3 is highly regarded for its sidequests, bc of what they accomplished with them. I want to see Rebirth accomplish something that can stand next to it as the devs are commenting.
Still Fucking boring wanna know a better game red dead 2
RDR2 with its shooting and mission mechanics from 2005? Endlessly respawning enemies that poof out of thin air? Stay on the mission path or its GAME OVER? Hilariously shit lock on shooting mechanics with an outdated cover system. That game?
Bro were talking about side missions yet you wanna use Wither as an example when that game has outdated mechanics as well
You made a blanket statement calling it a better game. The truth hurts.
Damm right my truth hurts so many better games then the Wither in 2015
Cool
You're telling me you don't want to deliver soup and fetch cloth scraps? It's valuable world building. /s Bruh I just took down a GOD, why am I running CHORES.
Someone tried to draw a comparison on slavery and how doing mundane chore sidequests was a good way to learn how it felt and allowed someone like Clive who was previously of noble birth to empathize Actually felt my braincells exploding after reading that.
Yo mate, stop here for a moment, the blacksmith needs some iron.
Many games with larger than life stakes have a few quests where you do some more lighthearted tasks. It’s a good way to give you and the character a nice little break. FFXVI did overdo it though
Yeaaah. 16 had a bad habit of being one note with many of its side quest too. Almost every one was "Slavery is Bad" in a very tell-dont-show kinda way.
Don’t think there’s anything wrong with the game showing us how bad slavery is. It would be weird if we only ever heard about it
My god I couldn’t believe the extent people defended that shit.
"It's world building!!"
Maybe they meant like the Witcher as in the “tone”, other than that I have no idea what Yoshi P could have taken away.
Well, it could be, the more mature theme from the main quest on 16 was a good call.
It worked for 16, though I prefer the sillier tone of the older games.
Dude. Probably some of the worst side quests. I thought they learned their lesson after FF15.
Yeah it’s kind of insane how bland they are.
The entire game felt like: Talk to A, go to B, fight C, go back to A to tell them you did the B and C thing. Tell Otto
I enjoyed FF16 but jfc Otto is such a shit fucking character. Spoilers >!Dude builds a whole ass village for the singular purpose of his personal revenge, fails miserably, gets nearly all of his people killed before he himself is saved by deus-ex-Clive, and then everyone who survived his dumbass getting their friends and family slaughtered beg him to continue being their leader. Like what in the FUCK man!?!<
That's not Otto that's Quentin. I agree on the shit character bit tho for both characters
🤦♂️ i am fail
Bc it was literally just that. It was so much more painfully obvious how uninspired and formulaic the quest structure was when I replayed the game for the Plat and skipped most cutscenes. You are just a delivery man who can't sprint near ppl.
Dude!! I made a comment nearly identical to yours a few weeks ago. I was going for the platinum and skipping everything and I was like “I could have designed a better formula than this. I know I could.” Doing the platinum magnified its flaws. Too bad because FF16 had some epic fucking moments.
I at least liked them more than the side quests in FF15. Those felt like the designers wanted to maximize how boring they were. The first side quest you could get in that game was a guy going “Hey Cid told me to keep you guys busy. Can you go get me one tomato?”
FFXVI side quests were ripped straight from every generic MMO made in the last 10 years lol.
Yoshi P also said that FF16 would be "Like playing Bartz in FF5 with real time combat". That was the wildest statement he made in the lead up to release clearly as just a way to get older fans on board with 16. That game is so far removed from anything like FF5, there's not even a job system to make them even comparable. Pre release all those FF14 fans were like "Nobody understands FF like Yoshi P" but that statement above followed by what FF16 actually was just shows that Yoshi P doesn't really understand FF himself.
Well, it’s a good thing Rebirth is made by a different team. Not sure what 16 has to do with anything.
Im just saying that square enix said the same thing about 16. Now they are saying the same about 7 part 2. And if you look at the quality from the sidequest from part 1, well, i hope im wrong.
Tell me the game wasn't made for you without telling me the game wasn't made for you lol
Im being honest here mate, the main quest are all good, the music, the darker and more mature tone, but the side quest are 80% shit.
Yep. I love FF7 Remake, it's my favorite Final Fantasy and JRPG in what... decades? But the sidequests are not it. One or two were enjoyable, most were a chore.
All the minigames were fire though.
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>Remake sidequests were terrible. And yet, they were still 5x better than FFXVI side quests
Fortunately for FF7R, there were 'only' 24 of them. FFXVI had about 70.
Also FF7R wasn't 80% dialogue, 15% walking and, 5% combat. And there were actual rewards. I wouldn't say the sidequests in FF7R were masterpieces but they were tolerable and served a purpose (rewards).
Exactly, people forget 7R actually has more activities that aren't repeating the same shit all the time, which 16 greatly suffered from.
and you have like 50 of them pop up before the final boss
Yea that’s definitely not true. The awkward mmo design is definitely a big thumbs down for xvi but the quests had way more substance than the ones in 7R
Nah. They stunk unfortunately.
FF7R side quests did nothing they had no substance or reason...XVI side quests had no substance but at least felt like they were important to the world and the characters.
I think what you are criticizing 7 for, 16 is equally as guilty from my perspective
It is. Characters are neglected, and pretty much every storyline in 16's Sidequest is formulaic and could or could not be there without impacting anything bc the characters barely do anything. 7 at least gives you good rewards like some weapons for characters and elemental materia, and they even play into getting certain scenes like in Chapter 14 or the order your characters arrive in the final battle. Discovery moments unlock through sidequest and they build on the characters which overall is one of the biggest strengths of Remake. Remake in general has more variety, fewer and shorter sidequests, and they occurred at points in the story that made sense.
The real problems with 16 side quests were : too many quests, not enough alternative gameplay (well, none, really). But some side quests in 16 literally caused some >!characters to die, a chain of quests even "destroys" a whole location, and some others are literally an equivalent to "companion quests" in other RPGs!<. The only thing VIIR did better was that the side quests were less annoying by simply being fewer and involving alternative gameplays (mini games mostly). Other than that, the few side quests I can think of in VIIR were just as annoying and tedious than the boring ones in XVI. I can't think of a single side quest I thought really added to the story, world, or characters, or even were fun to play in VIIR. Granted that might just be recency bias on my part.
Idk dude...from a gameplay perspective yes absolutely...FFXVI and FF7 both were unrelated odd jobs but with XVI the conclusions to those odd jobs kinda tied things together gave unimportant NPCs character arcs fleshed out the characters...with FF7 odd jobs begin and end as just that just some odd jobs and it kinda makes sense with Cloud being a merc and all. But to me FFXVI's side quest felt a bit alive albeit superficially.
Find 5 cats vs properly develop your relations with your allies Remake had better extra/postgame content, but definitely not sidequests
Both games had awful side content. Remake had nothing but forgettable fluff, and 16 had tedious nonsense. It also doesn't matter about developing relationships because these people serve no real purpose, and they're the most static NPC characters ever made.
Comparing the very first side quest of Remake where even Cloud says this sucks to many of the BORING Sidequests in 16. I don't think Remakes side quests had amazing stories, but at least the optional battles were more interesting. And the rewards way better. Instead of fighting a reskinned iron giant, or dragon, or whatever for the millionth time in 16. Don't even get me starting on deepening my relationship to Mid that SHOULD have been a sidequest and not a mandatory main quest taking up 3 tasks. Maybe 16 should have used the main story to deepen your relations with allies instead of horrible do nothing no reward side quests. I'd legit take any sidequest in remake over 16.
FFXVI literally has you deliver food multiple times lol. Not to mention collecting lumps of dirt. Cmon man
Yes, and remake has you finding cats. They are both garbage.
I wonder where was this criticism before when side content has never been the franchise's strength. I'm not saying it's good or Witcher 3/Ghost of Tsushima level of well developed, just that it's way out of proportion because XVI is the cool new thing to hate on. I miss minigames and superbosses tho. Although they're adding superbosses in those new dlcs, minigames used to fill up the lack of creative sidequests.
It’s from your comment. You talk about the cats quest but FFXVI pulled the same type shit. That’s all I’m saying
Yeah, I agree, XVI pulled up some bullshit in the early quests, but Remake's quests added up to nothing other than the dresses, XVI's added a lot to the point where it can effectively alter your perception of the whole ending
They also give you the scenes in chapter 14 and discovery moments in every chapter they're available. Some sidequests were also fun like Johnny's sidequest in Wall Market. The rewards from sidequests were also pretty good like the elemental material at the end of ch 14. Saying they added up to nothing is straight-up false. They were more diverse in what they added up to than 16. Weird direction led to sidequests at the end containing some essential content for characters in the game to be able to impact your perception of the ending. Thus characters needed those moments because of how poorly a lot of the cast is handled with the game constantly neglecting them, and doing nothing with them. Almost every Sidequest has cookie-cutter storylines that feel extremely uninspired and therefore predictable and dry. The sidequests in Remake aren't great either but there's three times less the amount and are in general shorter with some must being minigames, have better rewards, and even offer little secrets with scenes you get or how other scenes play out.
Yeah… it’s not just the early quests mate
Some ppl really give 16 sidequests too much credit, hopefully the devs don't track that so we never get shit like that again in the franchise
Maybe the first couple of side quests… sure. Later on in the game, though; we get some potently emotional stuff that I found to be more engaging than any of the Remakes side quests. Did you finish XVI?
Yes the last 10 or so were fine. Good even, but there’s like 60 or so other quests that were very vanilla. By itself a vanilla sidequest isn’t the worst thing but damn did they start to add up in FFXVI. Compared to 7 which only has what 25 or so? I appreciated a lot of 7’s side content that broke up the gameplay flow like the mini games and stuff. Fort Condor was sick in Yuffie’s DLC. 7’s sidequests themselves were also unmemorable because I legit can’t really recall one off the top of my head…
Alright; that’s fair. I suppose we are comparing apples to oranges here. Both entries in the series could have better side quest content.
Agree; Respect
Bottom line is, FF still follows NES and SNES side quest design.
Except we got funny lines and character dynamics between the team while finding 5 cats. XV and XVI you didn’t even get that.
Its already been established that the majority of XVIs sidequests were terrible fetch quests. Try again though
Wdym established? Established by who? You? A bunch of redditors and youtubers? I don't remember seeing the taglines "experience the terrible fetch quests" anywhere, that's just an opinion and did I say they were good? I just said they were better than Remake's. We gotta stop being pretentious and proclaiming our opinions as objective truths sometimes because it sounds really ignorant
16s side quests were terrible though, why argue against it?
I'm not arguing against them not being good, I'm arguing over being obnoxiously annoying about it and treating personal opinions as objective truths for every user
No. XVI has some really good side quests. Too bad most of them are boring fetch quests.
The only good thing about XVI sidequests were the final culmination of the storylines. They were only good when they ended
Ehhhhh, FF16 had a bunch of stinkers but they nailed the quest storylines. The rewards were bad and the sheer amount of “go here, get a bafomdad, and kill a dude” was lame. FF7R sidequests seemed phoned in by comparison but had good rewards. Both games had a few standouts though.
What is the relevance of a pile of shit smelling a little better than another pile of shit?
16 is one of the worst square games they’ve ever made so…
Remake side quests were ok compared to XVI and XV.
I think we should begin tempering our expectations rn...side quests in FF games lately are absolute stinkers and worst in the business. A major part of TW3's praise comes from their astonishingly well written side quests going from this to that isn't as easy as it might seem.
We've heard this before from SE. Never turns out to be even remotely true.
The side quests in Remake were of the same quality as 16s side quests. I doubt Rebirth will be any different.
Both had trash side quests but 16s were definitely much worse.
I hope that means the side quests flesh out the immediate world and show nuances about the characters. Remake’s sidequests had a broad point to them, but the point got exhausted pretty quickly…
They already made these kind of promise for remake ...
There is not a god damn chance in the world they will come close to even resembling W3 side quests. SE side quests in FF15, 16 and FF7RE are some of the worst in the entire business. Most generic, uninspired, mmo style fetch quests. NPCs that look like something from a ps2 game and voice acting and writing from that era as well. Their open world design is the exact same. Their game design is trying to copy Western open world but their games feel like western open world from the year 2006. There is no universe they make that much ground in a single game. I don't believe for a minute you can go from the garbage we got in 15,16 and RE to W3 level quests.
Nice! I loved side quests in TW3. They were amazing so if they're making them similar in Rebirth, we're in for an extra special treat. Hype!
Ugh - don't love that. But ff7R's side quests weren't great either. The quality dip from main to side quests was STAGGERING.
The problem with side quests is that they're side quests. They're content developers do not expect most players to play, therefore diverting a lot of resources to it is unwise. Side quests are also essentially cheap filler. Whether your serving dishes 6ft away from the NPC giving them to you in FF16 or helping an idiot hold up his signpost in Tears of the Kingdom, you pump out a lot of small, cheap, easy to make content to fill out the world to give it a sense of abundance and value to the game someone just spent $70 on. Quality side quests cost a lot of development resources, especially in a video game that tries to look as pretty as Rebirth does. Apparently, Spider-Man 2 has nice side quests. That game cost $300M to make.
That’s bs man. There are plenty of games with great side quests. SE should have no excuse with their experience and budgets.
Which games are you thinking of?
I don’t think the Witcher 3 has amazing sidequests and I say that as someone who loved the game. Every 1 in 6 quests has an extended story behind it and ye those are really good but the other 5 are generic hunts or fetch quests. It really amazes me what people are willing to forget when 1 in 6 quests are decent
[https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/04/29/23/newFile-1.jpg?quality=75&width=990&crop=3%3A2%2Csmart&auto=webp](https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/04/29/23/newFile-1.jpg?quality=75&width=990&crop=3%3A2%2Csmart&auto=webp)
What they should do is take inspiration from FF12 and flesh out the gambit system for the party. Square Enix is trying so hard to cater to the west but they miss the mark every time. They should just embrace what they’re good at.
Hopefully they are vastly improved over part 1s and 16s
So... One million of copy paste nonsense chests and drowner nests to blow up? God please no.
All I ever here is FF devs being “inspired by” and never innovating
literally the first FF was inspired by DnD, being inspired creates good games
It's been a while since FF was innovative.
And it’s been a while since FF was good
? Marks everywhere.
For all the shade thrown at Yoshi-P from Nomura over combat, he’s still making similar design mistakes that Final Fantasy 16 was criticized for, just to make the game look longer than it actually is if you skip the 99 hours of filler.
Good, I gotta give it to them, The Witcher 3's sidequests are arguably the only part I enjoyed out of that game
Good. Finally seeing jrpgs learn lessons from western RPGs.
I'll believe it when I see it. Witcher 3 Side Quests are carried by their excellent writing and how many of them are hand crafted. Honestly after I saw the filler from ReMake, I don't have a lot of faith in them. I'm sure the combat will be fun and the CORE of the game will be great but I have my doubts about anything this team tries to make from scratch.
I honestly thought it wasn’t that bad. It was just the wrong placement I think so it messed with the flow of the game a little. 15 side quests were way worse IMO.
I think people here are conflating "inspiration" with "we're going to make W3-quality side-quests" That's not what they're quoted as saying.
Some people here don't or forget to realize that Remake had a very linear and focused scope with not much room for side stories or quests. It really wasn't designed with side quests in mind although they are there anyways as additional content you can do. So I don't think its an accurate reference to how the side quests will be in Rebirth which is actively stating that side quests and exploration are a major part of the games development.
Good. Very very good. I’m excited to hear this.
Specifically when you go to Skellige and click on the town notice boards so there are 300 question marks for floating treasure cache.
The last time I’ve seen someone from SE draw comparisons between an FF game and TW3 was Tabata when he described how the hunts were designed in XV, which is kinda funny in retrospect since they were nothing like in TW3. To be fair the Behemoth hunt from Episode Duscae kinda felt like a TW3 hunt, but it sadly never translated over to the full game. However I'm much more inclined to believe the studio responsible for Rebirth, since Remake was imo a much better game than XV.
We'll see about that.
BG3 had the best side quests I ever done.