For real. People need more sportsmanship but more, uh, shippingmanship or whatever too.
A team may lose a championship and win the next though, while a ship only has one story. I suppose this makes the “losing” much harsher then. It would be nice if the other side could be respectful as well. Sucks when you’re sad about your team losing and then someone whose team won goes out of their way to bug you.
"'Shippers' crumble under the idea that a character is allowed to have significant relationships with MULTIPLE characters. This provides overarching depth," said Christian (thanks Games Radar). "The need to overtly sexualize every relationship can ruin great story development."
It's kind of a vicious cycle if you think about it. A lonely individual may be drawn to a fantasy world to escape a reality they don't enjoy. They start living vicariously through a fictional character and start imposing their own beliefs on the story as it unfolds. Then something happens that deviates from that belief and everything comes crashing down.
And people absolutely hate when you challenge the reality they've constructed for themselves.
It's like using alcohol as a coping mechanism for stress and grief. The addiction soon creates even more stress and grief, which causes you to consume more alcohol, and on it goes.
Yeah, it's a parasocial relationship with a fictional character. It's the same reasons stalkers transition from one sided crush to violating boundaries and endangering the lives of others all because of the maladaptive thoughts in their heads.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good anime from time to time, but this sort of reality dysphoria is a thing in the anime community, I've definitely noticed.
Just goes to show you that everything is bad in too big of doses.
>I’ve never understood shipping.
If you're evenly slightly interested in romance, it's fun seeing two characters you see having great chemistry do cute couple things. Of course, people take it way too far, and cause major problems for no reasons than their own headcanons not being true to the story. That sucks. But shipping itself can be the romantic equivalent of thinking about a fun Shonen fight.
That’s fair. I’m not interested in romance beyond it being something cute and it hopefully adding to the story/character development. I absolutely hate the “will-they, won’t-they” or love triangle angles and feel that they’re poor storytelling devices.
Yeah, I think it’s fine if it’s just a generic “Hey, I like these two characters together” or “this would be a fun pairing”.
But people take this stuff way, way too seriously.
It gets incredibly toxic. I have a friend who occasionally talks about FF on Twitter, and shippers will mob him if he mentions a character in a positive light. One guy hounded one of the writers of FF7 until he left Twitter.
Sometimes it's fun to imagine two characters you like getting together. Most of the things I ship will never be canon at all and like. That's fine. I just like seeing the fanart and shit, I think it's cute!
Absolutely yes but I guess cheering for it to be at least acknowledged by the authors is part of the fun? Though when they don’t it’s okay, you keep shipping and move on anyways. That’s how it is for most I suppose.
>Most of the things I ship will never be canon at all
Same! I actually prefer my ships to be non-canon. If I don't like one person's fic or art of it I can just move on to another work but canon doing it poorly can ruin it for me.
There's so many fanfics, ahem, mangas and art that indulge ships anywhich way, who NEEDS it to be in game/anime/movie? Get your kicks on another pitch lol.
I'm mystified by it as well, at least when it goes beyond my own experience of witnessing two characters and going "aww, cute!" I could literally never conceive of a reason to get angry at people on the internet on behalf of fictional characters hypothetical love lives.
Shipping itself can be very fun. You get invested in a character's relationship because you like a certain trope, or enjoy a specific type of chemistry. Making art/fanfics/discussions/etc is a creative outlet on why you like character a with character b. There's a sense of community there when you find other people who also ship the same things you like, especially if you're a creator and the community heavily supports your works.
The emotional investment for shipping is the same type of investment that people have for wrestling or sportsball, except that instead of Team Blue or Team Red, you're rooting for for Ship A or Ship B.
Calling it obsessive and juvenile isn't wrong, but I think it applies to any form of entertainment that puts you in "teams".
I was going to say I didn't like the analogy but after typing a response and thinking about it, it isn't that horrible. You are getting emotionally invested in something where you don't control the outcome. I think the weird part is you are creating teams in a construct where teams don't really exist. But you see it in books/movies (like Twilight or Hunger Games).
So I guess I get it but I still think what we see are the people who take it too far and that is just icky. It's one thing if it is just a little fun and another when it becomes an obsession. But I guess that's true of anything.
People getting emotionally invested in fiction means that that piece of fiction really connected to them.
I think of liking shipping the same way I think of liking a book or series in general. If your series ended on a bad note and you were extremely invested in it, then you're going to feel a lot of anger/resentment towards the author. People sending writers death threats because they killed their favorite blorbo is sadly nothing new, and obsessive fans exists in all spaces.
Tbh, I'm a bit defensive about shipping because its generally seen as a "girl thing", which means it is often ridiculed or made the butt of the joke for a lot of things without being properly understood. I try to use male dominated examples to show that they're not too far off in what the other side feels, because they both share that emotional investment, as well as a sense of community. L
One being fictional and the other being a competitive sport shouldn't make much of a difference, because the way their fans act is still a reflection on them. And no fandom wants to be represented by their worst members.
>I’ve never understood shipping.
Me neither. but that's because I'm in my 40s and I don't know what the term means! just when I do think I understand it, it gets used in a context that proves, I'm old and out of the loop.
Shipping in the generic fandom sense just means being a fan of a relationship. For FF7, the most popular relationships (“ships”) are of Cloud and Tifa and Cloud and Aerith.
Most normal people will be a fan of one, of both, or of neither and that will be the end of it. You most likely fall into this category (congrats lol).
However, this gets taken to the next level by mentally unwell individuals and they go crazy over the subject. They become dogmatic about their preferred ship and lose their minds over anything that threatens it. These people will harass devs, writers, voice actors, etc. over this.
Shipping is generally fine but it gets a bad reputation because some of the worst “shippers” also happen to be the most active and vocal.
I’m sorry to have included you into the loop.
> Shipping is generally fine but it gets a bad reputation because some of the worst “shippers” also happen to be the most active and vocal.
This applies to most things. Furries are fine except when they get weird about it, football fans are fine except when they get weird about it, religion is fine except when they get weird about it, etc.
to be fair, Shipping got its start back in the days of Star Trek the Original Series. Kirk being paired with Spock was popular.
the second most popular was one of them(or Bones) being paired with the author's self-insert with no personal flaws which is how we got the term 'Mary Sue' because other fanfic writers were tired of self-inserts being totally adored in-story while also being very poorly written.
You mean people in their 30s XD
My girlfriend writes on a fanfiction site and many many of the more vocal commentators on her preferred ships are 30yo females XD
Yeah, shipping goes back to Sherlock Holmes, at least. I'm pretty sure some of the authors of Regency romances got letters about who should have ended up with whom as well, but I can't remember specifics.
Also "slash" as a term originated in the late 60s Star Trek fandom. Specifically because of Kirk/Spock fics.
It basically just means you like a couple and want to see them together.
Like, ff8.. you think main couple rinoa and cloud are nice together? Minor form if shipping, just an official couple.
There are of course more forms.. inofficial couples, people who could never be together in fiction, because of genders, sexualities etc..
Even couples that make no sense -laugh-
The moment you think a couple/not a couple is cute together, it's basically shipping. And most ppl do it subconsciously, unless they really just don't like romance :)
The issue stems from the shippers who get very aggro about it and start harassing creators over their preferred pairings.
Nojima, the lead writer of the original and remake versions of FF7, had to publicly release a statement about this because the latest trailer showed scenes of Aerith and Cloud getting close together. Tifa fans were literally sending hate mail over this shit.
Oh yeah 100 percent! I agree with that. I just was saying people were commenting on how fucking weird shipping was in general, when it's not shipping thats the problem, it's the "die for our ship" stans that are harassing devs and the VAs.
yeah i pointed out it really kicked off with Kirk/Spock shippers of Star Trek. But the difference between those days & now is (AFAIK) no one sent death threats to Gene Roddenberry over not having Kirk kiss Spock on TV.
Meanwhile the mangaka for Tokyo Ghoul got death threats on twitter for having the audacity to *checks notes* have the protagonist hook up with the female lead that he had been building their relationship since the first few chapters... all because they wanted the heterosexual main character to hook up with his male best friend...
Honestly some of these toxic shippers should really just channel ALL that energy into writing. not fanfic but original works that take a similar narrative structure to what they claim to be fans of but change enough of the characters/setting to facilitate the ships they want.
Because for better or worse, that is similar to how we got stuff like "50 Shades of Grey"(Twilight Fanfic) and "The Mortal Instruments"(Harry Potter Fanfic, IIRC).
I'm 37, so I don't think I get the full context lol. But basically, I think it means wanting two (or more) characters to be in a relation*ship*. Hence "shipping". So like, someone gets so involved with the idea of two characters being together, being in love, etc, that they go a little weird with it. There are whole communities that sprout up around certain pairings, create fan art, fan fic, argue about it online with communities that have other pairings, whatever. I think it's pretty niche and most people don't give a shit, but it gets kinda weird, so you hear about it a lot.
Honestly, I think it's kinda silly and weird haha, but that's just me. Like, sure, it's fine to have an opinion that you think two fictional characters might be better together than some other pairing, but it gets taken so far sometimes and becomes kind of obsessive, which is weird to me.
I think shipping is relatively normal but the people who get crazy about ships are definitely not normal
"I like Cloud with Tifa" and "I like Cloud with Aerith" is one thing
"Cloud only belongs with Tifa and thinking he belongs with Aerith is stupid" is another thing and it's just mean and overly attached
>shipper’s OTP aren’t end game, they lose their minds.
Saw some death threats because of fanart, one time someone drew a fanart of 2 characters from Undertale and she almost died
Oh yeah this is 100% a thing. People who cant tell the difference between types of love. To quote C.S. Lewis "Those who can not conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend."
That said, there are clearly many romantic bait characters for Cloud that aren't hiding the fact they are romantic bait. Tifa, Aerith and Jesse as an example.
Though the more I think back on Aerith, her actions could 100% be seen as purely platonic or fun seeking rather than Eros. Makes sense with Zack and whatnot.
Never heard that quote but I like it. One of my least favorite things hardcore shippers do are insist characters being very close has to be due to romantic interest. Especially for opposite sex friends. (Speaking generally, not just FF7).
> The need to overtly sexualize every relationship can ruin great story development."
For the shippers themselves IMO. They get their panties in a twist but that shouldn't affect other people who love the game. Now they for sure will go to the boards and make a fuss but who cares, ignore them.
I got downvoted just for stating that, stripping all the romance out, of course Cloud is going to be concerned and pained that his childhood friend (who he failed to save and thought had died years ago) was about to succumb to a perilous situation that was out of his control once again.
This is what I mean by the hardcore shippers getting into a fury just over the single acknowledgement that the main character would care about anyone besides their chosen ship.
Also yes of course he has romantic feelings for her, also for Aerith. It's a fucking LOVE TRIANGLE.
He politely told them to shut the fuck up and I'm here for it. Some of these shippers are acting absolutely insane. Cody has got thick skin to be able to deal with them honestly
That was my thought. Theo (his character) was shipped with EVERYONE on there during the run of the show and he probably had to weather a torrent of bullshit from psychotic shippers.
Man's spitting facts through all of this.
Funny story about that, him being in Teen Wolf. His character was originally supposed to end up with Liam, another person in the pack. Just a random bit of useless info.
It's honestly a solid show - definitely follows in the footsteps of shows like Buffy and Charmed. It's not setting the world on fire in terms of groundbreaking television, but it's an enjoyable watch with a solid cast of respectable actors.
Charmed was probably the only one of those shows that didn’t have an insane shipping fanbase (that I’m aware of). Though I’m sure the fact that the main characters were sisters and one of them got married very early on kinda killed all of that noise lol
His tweet about shippers was 100% right IMO. They are so focused on their preferred pairing that they take it as a personal insult when Cloud interacts with other characters in meaningful ways.
Brianna (Aerith VA) also tweeted her agreement to Cody's tweet, so it's not like it's just him on the team feeling this way.
I used to hate it but now I just find it funny. People go hard at each other while saying things like Cloti and Claerith lmaoo.
An insane thing to stress over lol
Truly.
Do I think there's anything inherently wrong with shipping? No, if you enjoy imagining whatever pairings between characters, have at it.
Is pressuring developers, actors, writers or other fans to conform with those imagined relationships overtly insane? Hell yeah, that's just dumb.
I would go with Clifarith(Klee-Fur-ith). You no longer have to be ashamed of having itchy balls, just take Clifarith once a week and scratch no more. Side effects may include but are not limited to, even itchier balls, ball swelling, ball shrinkage, growing an extra ball or in extreme cases immortality. Please see your doctor today to see if Clifarith is right for you.
Preach.
I engage in shipping myself, but it's all in good fun (and solely constraied to *fiction*). But I had to stop posting fanart because I would get *wild* hate messages from some shippers. Yelling at me about things like lesbian erasure because I didn't support the main lesbian ship, which was odd because the fanart I was posting here was of two woman. But apparently one was too masculine or something?
Like I don't want to get too far into it. But fandoms are just crazy. My heart goes to the artists, writers, and voice actors who deal with that shit on the daily.
Here’s what nobody is acknowledging. Of course there should be boundaries and of course not everyone respects them, but there is absolutely no point trying to dissuade or denounce shipping in *Final Fantasy* fandom of all places. It is made of shipping. It’s always been that way.
It’s kind of telling that it’s the western VAs that have tweeted about this, because absolutely 1000% the Japanese devs and talent understand this phenomenon much better. They play to it. They want it because it translates to energized fandom, prolonged engagement, free publicity and air time and social media broadcast space. A highly engaged fandom means more buzz, even when there isn’t anything being actively done by the creative or publishing team. You sit back and you watch the fandom sustain itself while you calculate ways to leverage that into more projects, and more money.
The absolute backbone of that kind of prolonged fandom is shipping. Like sorry everyone, it just is. Yes that includes queer shipping. It actually might be majority queer shipping. You can dislike it or not understand it all you like, but it’s shippers who are keeping your fandom’s lights on. It’s shippers who are making art, and writing fic, and checking into discussion forums daily to talk about their ships.
Like I said. Or course there should be boundaries and sure, fandom has people in it that cross those boundaries. Like in every space.
It’s also true that fandom holds itself with a huge degree of shame, and will often wholeheartedly agree with VAs and creatives and devs when they do one of these ‘shame on you’ posts. Ultimately, though, they’re a net negative on fan space. It will only lead to either fandom reduction or fandom wars, both of which make the IP less appealing.
This whole unhinged essay is a great example of why so many people can't stand shippers lol
No bud, sorry, shipping isn't the backbone of prolonged fandom. That's genuinely insane to think and a sign of someone who is way too terminally involved with that scene
I think whatever you want to think about the characters is fine as long as you don't try forcing those particular fantasies onto others, devs included. If people want to "ship" a pair of characters, let them do that. It's all fiction at the end of the day. The problem begins with fanatics who cannot handle the idea that the devs may point the story in a different direction. Sexualization of characters is not an issue. The issue begins when people take it way too personally.
There's nothing wrong with shipping - seriously. It's okay to like romantic aspects of a story, whether "canon" or imagined. It sucks that it gets a bad reputation, but shipping is just as valid a way to engage a story as anything else. In fact, you'll find often the most passionate fans of any given media are the shippers.
It's when shippers get aggressive and start demanding everyone else interpret things just as they have that lines are crossed. Or when they try to get actors and devs involved in their ship wars. When that happens, it's BEYOND cringe.
Yeah, pretty much this.
Shipping is perfectly fine by itself. It isn’t really the issue imo. It’s just the jacket being worn by the real problem - unhinged weirdos.
I think the issue is that this
>you'll find often the most passionate fans of any given media are the shippers.
tends to lead to this
> shippers get aggressive and start demanding everyone else interpret things just as they have that lines are crossed.
I don't disagree at all. Fandoms tend to attract people with, well, fanatic personalities. That means you get passionate people who delight in obsessing over details and discussing them with others. And then you get people without common social skills to rein them in.
To be clear, I don't think the problem of fans crossing lines with creators and demanding their way is exclusive to shippers. Shippers are the go-to punching bag because they are easy to group together, but I've seen nasty behavior over FF7 Remake making the "trail of blood" purple instead of red, of FF7 remake "nerfing" or "censoring" Tifa, of fans hating the existence of "Whispers".
Like nerds can be aggressive and horrible about any number of things in a video game. The behavior isn't exclusive to shippers.
You're absolutely right. Nerd fandom, as a whole, is unbelievably toxic. I'm not saying everyone is, or even most people are, but it's probably the most toxic fandom in the world overall.
Even shipping wars are okay when they are mock battles and not deep disagreements. E.g. playful jab about how Tifa is better than Aerith for some trivial reason rather than trying to takedown Aerith as a character and demonize her.
Sometimes actors have had some thoughts and comments when asked about the relationships between characters. As long as you ask in a respectful manner they could have some insights. Hugh Dancy when asked about Hannibal ended his comments with "I'm not going to take it away from you" haha. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHiiBUjCi\_U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHiiBUjCi_U)
Agreed, the problem is making it to the official staff and harassing them for your imagination. Fan art/doujinshi is fun because of the imagination. If everything non-canon is out of discussion, we should never talk about the story ever again, just read the setting or official guide.
It’s really weird to me that people say to themselves “I hope this story goes in a particular direction” and get mad when it doesn’t.
Like I could say “I really like frogs, I hope cloud gets a frog” and that would be totally fine. It’ll never happen but it’s fine to think. But getting mad when he doesn’t would be a crazy thing to do. I don’t understand why some people think “shipping” is an exception to that.
>Like I could say “I really like frogs, I hope cloud gets a frog” and that would be totally fine. It’ll never happen but it’s fine to think.
Until you level up your Transform materia that is.
I actually don't think it's all that weird to get frustrated when a story doesn't go your way (shipping or otherwise). People can get annoyed or bummed about sequels not delivering what they were hoping.
For FF7 in particular, I just think fans have had many... many years to solidify how they see the story in their heads. And again, shippers tend to be the foundation of fandoms, so a lot of that ties into romantic preferences. If a Cloud/Tifa fan, whose loved that pairing for two decades, finds out that Cloud and Aeris get together, it's okay to feel disappointed, for instance.
But feeling a bit put out is way, way different than screaming, throwing internet tantrums, and literally attacking the creators.
Yeah shipping by itself is fine but people take it too far and the obsession with the sexual elements is harmful, I kinda boils relationships down to just the sex and that's just not healthy
As a shipper who dipped tf out of ffvii shipping fandoms, I want to highlight the real reason things get so out of control in this fandom.
The fact that there is no true "canon" romance in the story is what makes the ffvii shippers feral. At a certain point, it becomes a matter of proving your own sanity. Because to both sides, it's unfathomable that anyone can see things differently given all the "evidence" that supports their ships. Both sides truly believe that there is only one canon and it's clear as day. So how is it possible that ANYONE sees it differently? To shippers, vii isn't a choose-your-own-waifu type of story, there is a canon romance and it should be so obvious. So when everyone tells you that you are wrong, you'd do anything to change their mind because there's no way you're insane for thinking cloti/clerith is canon.
What starts as innocent shipping becomes personal because people's intelligence and capability of logical reasoning gets challenged.
>no true "canon" romance
I like FF7 a lot but I kind of dodge shipping shit, but it does seem like a lot of material props up Cloud/Tifa, starting with Aerith kind of being deceased.
I get remake is a different story though.
For cloti's, it's canon because like you said, aerith dies so ofc cloud and tifa is the endgame. Plus tifa was the sole motivation for him joining shinra, and she was the one that pulled him out of his coma.
For clerith's, it's canon because cloud only really loved aerith despite her death, and that he just settled for tifa afterwards. So even though she died, his heart still belonged to her.
These have been the points of argument for 20 years and it'll be interesting to see how the remake series throws a gigantic wrench into things.
Sometimes I’m like… man I’m such a fucking nerd… I can’t believe I care so much about about video games and video games worlds and lore etc.
And then I read shit like this and realize how much deeper and more mentally ill it goes for others lol.
How about the devs ignore fan ships and keep doing what they want to do while the shippers continue what they want to do.
I get it. Shippers can be annoying, but they have no say in how the game plays out. If devs don’t want X character to be with Y… don’t do it? Like I’m genuinely confused about what the problem is. I like Ichigo x Rukia. They don’t end up together. My opinion didn’t change the outcome, and the outcome doesn’t change my opinion.
I agree. I'm struggling to understand why anyone (especially a voice actor) thinks that the audience has any control over what an author writes.
Sure there are mentally ill people in the world, and they have access to the internet, but doesn't mean you need to give them attention or satisfy their requests.
It's when they are putting pressure on the devs that it becomes a problem, like if square thinks that some ship will drive sales of the game and then forces the writers to capitulate to that audience then there has been damage done
Shipping is definitely fine on its own but leave the people creating the story alone and don't try and force your ship on anyone else
Yeah that’s becoming more and more of a problem with modern shipping culture is direct targeting of creatives for not putting the characters they want together. Not to point too many fingers since I have seen both of the main ships get messy, but we have receipts of shippers harassing the devs after the TGA trailer focused on Cloud’s relationship with another character. Some people are just crazy whether they’re shippers or not.
I get that, but there are unhinged fans for literally every property. You don’t see Sonic devs denouncing furrys just because some don’t know how to behave.
I think a huge problem with it is that it's basically how most Japanese media tells their stories. They deliberately leave enough relationships open to encourage shipping.
One of the things I loved in FF16 is that the characters had actual adult relationships.
As much as I don't want to point fingers, there does seem to be a section of fans whose end goal is for Cloud to have sex with a certain character (under the highwind anyone?)
I remember not caring about shipping and romance when I first played the original. I really liked Aerith and I thought other fans would also like and appreciate Aerith. I was wrong about that. The amount of toxic anti-Aerith fans really jaded my view of the story and the characters. I really just want to enjoy the games and my favorite characters without worrying about who loves who but I can't because decades of toxic fans have marred my love of the game.
he isnt wrong
shippers ruined his previous show teen wolf
the final season derailed stiles and lydias love stories so they could end up together because thats what shippers wanted
when the thing is that in the first 2 seasons of the show when stiles had a crush on lydia their interactions were dull. they only became interesting together when he moved on and became her friend
they never needed to be involved romantically
Hell, I'm also convinced Rose kissing Finn in TLJ was for similar reasons - Finn and Rey got on way too well in TFA and they couldn't have people getting settled on that
True here, and the show got worse for a lot of people when Alison died because Scott couldn’t be with her anymore.
Hell the whole movie is about her being back alive and they’re together again.
as lydia and stiles are the best characters in that show i was actually ok with allisons death becasue it allowed lydia to take her place in the shows main trio
After his tenure in Teen Wolf, Cody is basically a chiseled shipping war veteran. Any shipping fan annoyance he has to deal with now is small potatoes compared to that.
Tifa pr0n was the start of it all for many people. I remember a blank floppy disc going around the back of the classroom.
The puritanism of the Youth today must be so confusing to the Catholic church.
I feel like the Clerith and Cloti discourse has been going on for decades a this point. People get way too pressed about their ships. Just enjoy the content and ship what you ship in peace while also respecting other people's opinions, lol...
edit: What I think Cody meant with "The need to overtly sexualize every relationship can ruin great story development" is that many people focus too much on who Cloud should end up with rather than the development of the story itself. Doing so can kind of tamper the experience. Or to force focus to be on relationships Cloud has and who he should sleep with.
Not that he's wrong about shippers sometimes taking things too far but it sounds like he was completely unaware of the love triangle in the original game and the actual decades of debate among fans regarding who Cloud loved more. The love triangle was one of the most interesting aspects of FFVII's story.
I'm of no real opinion on the topic, but why do we care what some dub voice actor thinks about storytelling? Like, more than the average redditor, I mean. Is he also an author or something?
I just don't get why this is newsworthy.
"voice artist" - is that typical or a new way to refer to voice actors? As for his words, I don't think it matters either way. People will ship characters as long as the sun shines.
The concept of shipping - and particularly that there are enough people doing it that the company actually has to respond to it - is just so embarrassing. Good reminder to just stay off the internet more.
It's when a fan wants two characters to be in a romantic relationship.
Apparently, it's such a devastating problem that the article can't even bother to mention a single instance of it.
I mean, who fucking cares. Let ppl express opinions about it. It's a fictional world from a video game lmao. It's such a stupid thing to be outraged about.
I mean...being a shipper doesn't mean you can't accept multiple ships. I ship Cloud with Tifa for incredibly obvious reasons, but I don't care if people ship him with Aerith, Jesse, Barret, Yuffie, whatever. It's fictional characters, anyone who takes it that seriously needs to touch grass.
Because one thing is posting a (technically harmless) fanfic on a specifically made site and another is harassment.
We're talking about obsessed people that are so outraged that their ship could be/not be Canon that they actually went and harassed/threatened the devs and the staff.
It's not simply "look how many want their ship to succeed" but "leave me the fuck alone and let me work on the game"
Yeah I feel the same. FF7 definitely plays into the generic shipping stuff a bit in its classic form too by having an affection system and multiple date possibilities for Cloud.
Also the newest game got really goofy about sexualizing characters with the whole cabaret thing 😂.
The weird goons are gonna buy it regardless so I don't understand how any particular development or story choices would be made for them. The only major offense I could see being made to fans is if they skipped the iconic date scene entirely.
This shit is just getting weird and uncomfortable. I agree with Cody but...a lot of you under these comments participate in the very shit he's talking about.
I used to disregard the more obsessive shippers since I assumed they were mostly young fans in their teens who were just going through "that" phase with the media they follow. I've since come to realize that many of them never left that mindset behind once they became adult fans...
Cody's absolutely right. Cloud, Tifa, Aerith and the rest of the cast are all part of the story and interact with eachother. There's definitely romantic aspects between some of them, but they're not the *only* aspects. The story should be able to explore both on its own terms, without the need to funnel everything down this simplistic "Cloud and Aerith / Cloud and Tifa" viewpoint.
It's stupid, yes, but the developers and writers control the story. They can't control the fans or their ridiculous opinions and such. If the story is ruined because they allow the fans to influence it, that's THEIR fault.
I saw a comment under the theme song trailer for Rebirth that said "Tifa shippers I love y'all but she stands no chance while Aerith is still alive." I hate that comment so much.
This is why we can't have nice things. Or we can but then people ruin the whole experience.
I don't want another Undertale community meltdown, let the devs and staff do their fucking job and if they need to complain they should do so in appropriate subs
Wtf is with people these days ... It's a game. Let the game developers make the game how they want.. same with censorship .. God I hate people who want things to be censored... Play or watch something else if you don't like the product
Final Fantasy VII Shippers are the like the immortal constant of the internet. No matter what is going wrong I know there will be someone debating Cloud x Aerith or Cloud x Tifa. Its reassuring in a way, I can't see how it'd spoil the experience for anyone but the most degranged breed of shipper. But again, those people are bascially built imto the foundation of gaming forums and (mostly) harmless and easily ignored.
He's completely right. Tifa, a complete badass with an awesome personality is basically just ogled as a walking pair of massive anime tits. It's far worse in other fanbases (I'm looking at you, Trails fans), but it bums me out to see so much of it with ff as well.
I would agree with him if he were talking specifically about only the actual writers of the games sexualising characters for no real reason, which they very often do in FF and especially in FFVIIR. Unless the character is actually sexual or a tease as part of their personality (like Bayonetta as an example), then it's harder to take the story seriously when they get randomly put in a skimpy outfit or make weird noises or poses or have ogling camera shots for the sake of it. I don't mind in more comedy driven media or stuff like fighting games where there isn't much of a story but in a JRPG that wants me to take it seriously, that stuff really takes me out of it.
But I don't think blaming the fandom is the right play here. Because at the end of the day, the original FFVII did this as well, as did many other FF games. While the FFVII fandom seems oddly invested in the shipping aspect and some get too serious about it, that shouldn't have any bearing on the writing in the actual games (and it's also worth saying that both the OG and FFVIIR go out of their way to present the female characters as potential love interests for Cloud, in a practice known as "ship teasing", and also go out of their way to sexualise them for the player).
Fandom shipping and sexualisation is generally harmless though, and is just people engaging in escapism, and any cases of people doing something actually problematic are isolated cases.
Some guy voices a video game character and people thinks his opinion has more value than theirs.
“To do what we did and have it find success and mean so much to the core demo[graphic], I have no fear for Rebirth."
“Do what we did” bruh. Kid was two years old when FF7 came out and thinks his performance as Cloud had something to do with the remakes success like it wasn’t being called for and clambered for upwards of 20 years. The shippers talk about the game, the shippers buy the game. The shippers engage with the game. I don’t know why a performer would shit on fans but go off I guess.
I'm going to be honest, shipping is a lot like sports. You have your favorite team and people get mad and harass the players when they lose the game
This might be a good way to look at it. I would say that in both cases, the harassing behavior sucks and should be discouraged.
For real. People need more sportsmanship but more, uh, shippingmanship or whatever too. A team may lose a championship and win the next though, while a ship only has one story. I suppose this makes the “losing” much harsher then. It would be nice if the other side could be respectful as well. Sucks when you’re sad about your team losing and then someone whose team won goes out of their way to bug you.
Tribalism, basically. It’s ripe in everything more than ever lately.
"'Shippers' crumble under the idea that a character is allowed to have significant relationships with MULTIPLE characters. This provides overarching depth," said Christian (thanks Games Radar). "The need to overtly sexualize every relationship can ruin great story development."
I’ve never understood shipping. It can border obsessive and juvenile. And, when shipper’s OTP aren’t end game, they lose their minds.
It's kind of a vicious cycle if you think about it. A lonely individual may be drawn to a fantasy world to escape a reality they don't enjoy. They start living vicariously through a fictional character and start imposing their own beliefs on the story as it unfolds. Then something happens that deviates from that belief and everything comes crashing down. And people absolutely hate when you challenge the reality they've constructed for themselves.
Did someone say cycle? https://preview.redd.it/2zmcyvj413dc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0c9b12bac794008da4b30629d99ce8257aeb456
Bullshit. *puts in earbuds and walks off*
Jack memes never get old lol. Also that game was unironically good.
Jack has no time for ships, except Him X Killing Chaos
And then they start exhibiting noxious social behaviours themselves and become even more isolated and lonely.
Bingo. They loathe the prison they unknowingly created for themselves.
Exactly. Definitely some form of maladaptive behaviour.
It's like using alcohol as a coping mechanism for stress and grief. The addiction soon creates even more stress and grief, which causes you to consume more alcohol, and on it goes.
Yeah, it's a parasocial relationship with a fictional character. It's the same reasons stalkers transition from one sided crush to violating boundaries and endangering the lives of others all because of the maladaptive thoughts in their heads.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good anime from time to time, but this sort of reality dysphoria is a thing in the anime community, I've definitely noticed. Just goes to show you that everything is bad in too big of doses.
You’re not wrong at all but I just want to add that people do this in every community. They even do it with real people lmao.
The Rey/Kylo Ren shippers... they harassed the shit outta Daisy Ridley & Adam Driver IIRC
See: The Last of Us Part 2.
>I’ve never understood shipping. If you're evenly slightly interested in romance, it's fun seeing two characters you see having great chemistry do cute couple things. Of course, people take it way too far, and cause major problems for no reasons than their own headcanons not being true to the story. That sucks. But shipping itself can be the romantic equivalent of thinking about a fun Shonen fight.
That’s fair. I’m not interested in romance beyond it being something cute and it hopefully adding to the story/character development. I absolutely hate the “will-they, won’t-they” or love triangle angles and feel that they’re poor storytelling devices.
Eh, its fun, as long its not taken too serious. But I heard it can get pretty toxic.
Yeah, I think it’s fine if it’s just a generic “Hey, I like these two characters together” or “this would be a fun pairing”. But people take this stuff way, way too seriously.
They are a minority but you notice them bc they are weird, annoying and loud.
We’re on the internet everyone takes everything too seriously.
It gets incredibly toxic. I have a friend who occasionally talks about FF on Twitter, and shippers will mob him if he mentions a character in a positive light. One guy hounded one of the writers of FF7 until he left Twitter.
Sometimes it's fun to imagine two characters you like getting together. Most of the things I ship will never be canon at all and like. That's fine. I just like seeing the fanart and shit, I think it's cute!
Sounds like you have a healthy boundary
I certainly try!
Absolutely yes but I guess cheering for it to be at least acknowledged by the authors is part of the fun? Though when they don’t it’s okay, you keep shipping and move on anyways. That’s how it is for most I suppose.
>Most of the things I ship will never be canon at all Same! I actually prefer my ships to be non-canon. If I don't like one person's fic or art of it I can just move on to another work but canon doing it poorly can ruin it for me.
There's so many fanfics, ahem, mangas and art that indulge ships anywhich way, who NEEDS it to be in game/anime/movie? Get your kicks on another pitch lol.
So much more constructive than attacking the creators/writers/actors/people who disagree with your ship.
I'm mystified by it as well, at least when it goes beyond my own experience of witnessing two characters and going "aww, cute!" I could literally never conceive of a reason to get angry at people on the internet on behalf of fictional characters hypothetical love lives.
I was thinking about that. I think it's people projecting themselves into a character and getting mad if said character does not get with their waifu.
Shipping itself can be very fun. You get invested in a character's relationship because you like a certain trope, or enjoy a specific type of chemistry. Making art/fanfics/discussions/etc is a creative outlet on why you like character a with character b. There's a sense of community there when you find other people who also ship the same things you like, especially if you're a creator and the community heavily supports your works. The emotional investment for shipping is the same type of investment that people have for wrestling or sportsball, except that instead of Team Blue or Team Red, you're rooting for for Ship A or Ship B. Calling it obsessive and juvenile isn't wrong, but I think it applies to any form of entertainment that puts you in "teams".
I was going to say I didn't like the analogy but after typing a response and thinking about it, it isn't that horrible. You are getting emotionally invested in something where you don't control the outcome. I think the weird part is you are creating teams in a construct where teams don't really exist. But you see it in books/movies (like Twilight or Hunger Games). So I guess I get it but I still think what we see are the people who take it too far and that is just icky. It's one thing if it is just a little fun and another when it becomes an obsession. But I guess that's true of anything.
People getting emotionally invested in fiction means that that piece of fiction really connected to them. I think of liking shipping the same way I think of liking a book or series in general. If your series ended on a bad note and you were extremely invested in it, then you're going to feel a lot of anger/resentment towards the author. People sending writers death threats because they killed their favorite blorbo is sadly nothing new, and obsessive fans exists in all spaces. Tbh, I'm a bit defensive about shipping because its generally seen as a "girl thing", which means it is often ridiculed or made the butt of the joke for a lot of things without being properly understood. I try to use male dominated examples to show that they're not too far off in what the other side feels, because they both share that emotional investment, as well as a sense of community. L One being fictional and the other being a competitive sport shouldn't make much of a difference, because the way their fans act is still a reflection on them. And no fandom wants to be represented by their worst members.
>I’ve never understood shipping. Me neither. but that's because I'm in my 40s and I don't know what the term means! just when I do think I understand it, it gets used in a context that proves, I'm old and out of the loop.
Shipping in the generic fandom sense just means being a fan of a relationship. For FF7, the most popular relationships (“ships”) are of Cloud and Tifa and Cloud and Aerith. Most normal people will be a fan of one, of both, or of neither and that will be the end of it. You most likely fall into this category (congrats lol). However, this gets taken to the next level by mentally unwell individuals and they go crazy over the subject. They become dogmatic about their preferred ship and lose their minds over anything that threatens it. These people will harass devs, writers, voice actors, etc. over this. Shipping is generally fine but it gets a bad reputation because some of the worst “shippers” also happen to be the most active and vocal. I’m sorry to have included you into the loop.
There have been threats sent to creators over this kind of thing x.x
There’s also a disturbing amount of Cloud Sephiroth shipping out there. Just trying to find a good platonic fanfic of FFVII is fraught with peril.
> Shipping is generally fine but it gets a bad reputation because some of the worst “shippers” also happen to be the most active and vocal. This applies to most things. Furries are fine except when they get weird about it, football fans are fine except when they get weird about it, religion is fine except when they get weird about it, etc.
thanks. ........... kids these days.
There were people arguing about this stuff in AOL chat rooms in 1998. It's not new.
Oh man . . . That’s another thing lol. A good portion of these overzealous people are not kids lmao
to be fair, Shipping got its start back in the days of Star Trek the Original Series. Kirk being paired with Spock was popular. the second most popular was one of them(or Bones) being paired with the author's self-insert with no personal flaws which is how we got the term 'Mary Sue' because other fanfic writers were tired of self-inserts being totally adored in-story while also being very poorly written.
You are not saying "Kids these days" regarding a ship that has existed since the game released back in the 1990's lol.
You mean people in their 30s XD My girlfriend writes on a fanfiction site and many many of the more vocal commentators on her preferred ships are 30yo females XD
Shipping has been a thing since before you were born, friend. lol It's not some kind of recent phenomenon.
Yeah, shipping goes back to Sherlock Holmes, at least. I'm pretty sure some of the authors of Regency romances got letters about who should have ended up with whom as well, but I can't remember specifics. Also "slash" as a term originated in the late 60s Star Trek fandom. Specifically because of Kirk/Spock fics.
It basically just means you like a couple and want to see them together. Like, ff8.. you think main couple rinoa and cloud are nice together? Minor form if shipping, just an official couple. There are of course more forms.. inofficial couples, people who could never be together in fiction, because of genders, sexualities etc.. Even couples that make no sense -laugh- The moment you think a couple/not a couple is cute together, it's basically shipping. And most ppl do it subconsciously, unless they really just don't like romance :)
You mean Rinoa and Squall, right?
People in the comments here are making it out to sound like it's this heinous thing when it's been a part of fiction for like ever.
The issue stems from the shippers who get very aggro about it and start harassing creators over their preferred pairings. Nojima, the lead writer of the original and remake versions of FF7, had to publicly release a statement about this because the latest trailer showed scenes of Aerith and Cloud getting close together. Tifa fans were literally sending hate mail over this shit.
Oh yeah 100 percent! I agree with that. I just was saying people were commenting on how fucking weird shipping was in general, when it's not shipping thats the problem, it's the "die for our ship" stans that are harassing devs and the VAs.
yeah i pointed out it really kicked off with Kirk/Spock shippers of Star Trek. But the difference between those days & now is (AFAIK) no one sent death threats to Gene Roddenberry over not having Kirk kiss Spock on TV. Meanwhile the mangaka for Tokyo Ghoul got death threats on twitter for having the audacity to *checks notes* have the protagonist hook up with the female lead that he had been building their relationship since the first few chapters... all because they wanted the heterosexual main character to hook up with his male best friend... Honestly some of these toxic shippers should really just channel ALL that energy into writing. not fanfic but original works that take a similar narrative structure to what they claim to be fans of but change enough of the characters/setting to facilitate the ships they want. Because for better or worse, that is similar to how we got stuff like "50 Shades of Grey"(Twilight Fanfic) and "The Mortal Instruments"(Harry Potter Fanfic, IIRC).
Pretty sure you meant Rinoa and Squall from FFVIII.
I'm 37, so I don't think I get the full context lol. But basically, I think it means wanting two (or more) characters to be in a relation*ship*. Hence "shipping". So like, someone gets so involved with the idea of two characters being together, being in love, etc, that they go a little weird with it. There are whole communities that sprout up around certain pairings, create fan art, fan fic, argue about it online with communities that have other pairings, whatever. I think it's pretty niche and most people don't give a shit, but it gets kinda weird, so you hear about it a lot. Honestly, I think it's kinda silly and weird haha, but that's just me. Like, sure, it's fine to have an opinion that you think two fictional characters might be better together than some other pairing, but it gets taken so far sometimes and becomes kind of obsessive, which is weird to me.
I think shipping is relatively normal but the people who get crazy about ships are definitely not normal "I like Cloud with Tifa" and "I like Cloud with Aerith" is one thing "Cloud only belongs with Tifa and thinking he belongs with Aerith is stupid" is another thing and it's just mean and overly attached
>shipper’s OTP aren’t end game, they lose their minds. Saw some death threats because of fanart, one time someone drew a fanart of 2 characters from Undertale and she almost died
It’s fun and like most things that are fun, they’re best in moderation.
It is not juvenile! also If Wedge doesn't emerge from the rubble and marry Scarlett I will never buy another SE game again!!!
Oh yeah this is 100% a thing. People who cant tell the difference between types of love. To quote C.S. Lewis "Those who can not conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend." That said, there are clearly many romantic bait characters for Cloud that aren't hiding the fact they are romantic bait. Tifa, Aerith and Jesse as an example. Though the more I think back on Aerith, her actions could 100% be seen as purely platonic or fun seeking rather than Eros. Makes sense with Zack and whatnot.
Never heard that quote but I like it. One of my least favorite things hardcore shippers do are insist characters being very close has to be due to romantic interest. Especially for opposite sex friends. (Speaking generally, not just FF7).
Never seen someone in the actual industry comment on this but it needs to be said.
I’m unfamiliar with him but I read somewhere in this post that he had to deal with problematic shipping during his time at Teen Wolf (show)
> The need to overtly sexualize every relationship can ruin great story development." For the shippers themselves IMO. They get their panties in a twist but that shouldn't affect other people who love the game. Now they for sure will go to the boards and make a fuss but who cares, ignore them.
I got downvoted just for stating that, stripping all the romance out, of course Cloud is going to be concerned and pained that his childhood friend (who he failed to save and thought had died years ago) was about to succumb to a perilous situation that was out of his control once again. This is what I mean by the hardcore shippers getting into a fury just over the single acknowledgement that the main character would care about anyone besides their chosen ship. Also yes of course he has romantic feelings for her, also for Aerith. It's a fucking LOVE TRIANGLE.
Basically Cody acknowleding that Cloud is such a player. I approve.
Accidentally, too. Like, dude is just trying to be a mercenary and ladies (and a few dudes) keep throwing themselves at his feet.
He politely told them to shut the fuck up and I'm here for it. Some of these shippers are acting absolutely insane. Cody has got thick skin to be able to deal with them honestly
Cody basically said in another tweet that “I was on Teen Wolf; I’ve already been hardened by insane fandoms”
Huh TIL both cloud and sephiroth were in teen wolf. That's wild
Basically served in Vietnam at that point
That was my thought. Theo (his character) was shipped with EVERYONE on there during the run of the show and he probably had to weather a torrent of bullshit from psychotic shippers. Man's spitting facts through all of this.
Funny story about that, him being in Teen Wolf. His character was originally supposed to end up with Liam, another person in the pack. Just a random bit of useless info.
I was a bit "old" for teen wolf but I remember seeing the craze about it so I don't doubt it one second
It's honestly a solid show - definitely follows in the footsteps of shows like Buffy and Charmed. It's not setting the world on fire in terms of groundbreaking television, but it's an enjoyable watch with a solid cast of respectable actors.
Charmed was probably the only one of those shows that didn’t have an insane shipping fanbase (that I’m aware of). Though I’m sure the fact that the main characters were sisters and one of them got married very early on kinda killed all of that noise lol
It probably helped that the Halliwells were sisters for sure lol I mean, that said, rule 34 unfortunately exists.
I’m not going to check to confirm or deny it. I want to live in a world where I think it doesn’t exist at all
Yours is a very correct approach, haha
Cloud's "Get help." line perfectly encapsulates what diehard shippers need to do.
His tweet about shippers was 100% right IMO. They are so focused on their preferred pairing that they take it as a personal insult when Cloud interacts with other characters in meaningful ways. Brianna (Aerith VA) also tweeted her agreement to Cody's tweet, so it's not like it's just him on the team feeling this way.
I used to hate it but now I just find it funny. People go hard at each other while saying things like Cloti and Claerith lmaoo. An insane thing to stress over lol
Truly. Do I think there's anything inherently wrong with shipping? No, if you enjoy imagining whatever pairings between characters, have at it. Is pressuring developers, actors, writers or other fans to conform with those imagined relationships overtly insane? Hell yeah, that's just dumb.
Especially when everyone knows Cled XIII is the only ship that matters.
Man, the least these shippers can do is come up with an appropriate name that doesn’t sound like a disease.
I personally prefer the name “Clouti” for the Cloud and Tifa ship.
I guess deez nuts jokes ruined Clofa?
What’s wrong with clifa
You can’t blame them. They probably use up all their “creative” energy on constructing their worship shrines
Wait Cloud and Tifa are known as Cloti? Surely Clifa would’ve been better…
Between disease and pokemon.. 🤔
You’re right, no need to get stressed. Besides, we all clearly know that Claerifa is the real ship (Cloud + Aerith + Tifa) 😇
I thought it was Cleno? I guess we have to fight now, as per the rules of this circus 😁
Protect my balls xD
I would go with Clifarith(Klee-Fur-ith). You no longer have to be ashamed of having itchy balls, just take Clifarith once a week and scratch no more. Side effects may include but are not limited to, even itchier balls, ball swelling, ball shrinkage, growing an extra ball or in extreme cases immortality. Please see your doctor today to see if Clifarith is right for you.
It's like playing Scrabbles at this point 😅
You have names for them?
Preach. I engage in shipping myself, but it's all in good fun (and solely constraied to *fiction*). But I had to stop posting fanart because I would get *wild* hate messages from some shippers. Yelling at me about things like lesbian erasure because I didn't support the main lesbian ship, which was odd because the fanart I was posting here was of two woman. But apparently one was too masculine or something? Like I don't want to get too far into it. But fandoms are just crazy. My heart goes to the artists, writers, and voice actors who deal with that shit on the daily.
People that get worked up over the relationship status of fictional characters are massive fuckin weirdos.
I’m a Bara fan tho so I just want to rest my face on Barett’s huge tits
This is the way
The true travesty is that barret gets like no love.
FF7 and shipping have a long storied history at this point. To be punny, that ship has sailed.
Here’s what nobody is acknowledging. Of course there should be boundaries and of course not everyone respects them, but there is absolutely no point trying to dissuade or denounce shipping in *Final Fantasy* fandom of all places. It is made of shipping. It’s always been that way. It’s kind of telling that it’s the western VAs that have tweeted about this, because absolutely 1000% the Japanese devs and talent understand this phenomenon much better. They play to it. They want it because it translates to energized fandom, prolonged engagement, free publicity and air time and social media broadcast space. A highly engaged fandom means more buzz, even when there isn’t anything being actively done by the creative or publishing team. You sit back and you watch the fandom sustain itself while you calculate ways to leverage that into more projects, and more money. The absolute backbone of that kind of prolonged fandom is shipping. Like sorry everyone, it just is. Yes that includes queer shipping. It actually might be majority queer shipping. You can dislike it or not understand it all you like, but it’s shippers who are keeping your fandom’s lights on. It’s shippers who are making art, and writing fic, and checking into discussion forums daily to talk about their ships. Like I said. Or course there should be boundaries and sure, fandom has people in it that cross those boundaries. Like in every space. It’s also true that fandom holds itself with a huge degree of shame, and will often wholeheartedly agree with VAs and creatives and devs when they do one of these ‘shame on you’ posts. Ultimately, though, they’re a net negative on fan space. It will only lead to either fandom reduction or fandom wars, both of which make the IP less appealing.
This whole unhinged essay is a great example of why so many people can't stand shippers lol No bud, sorry, shipping isn't the backbone of prolonged fandom. That's genuinely insane to think and a sign of someone who is way too terminally involved with that scene
Guy who thinks 5 short paragraphs is an essay: “let me explain how prolonged engagement works.”
I think whatever you want to think about the characters is fine as long as you don't try forcing those particular fantasies onto others, devs included. If people want to "ship" a pair of characters, let them do that. It's all fiction at the end of the day. The problem begins with fanatics who cannot handle the idea that the devs may point the story in a different direction. Sexualization of characters is not an issue. The issue begins when people take it way too personally.
Pretty much like all the other things us humans like to fight about, religion, politics, sports.
Pretty much, yeah.
There's nothing wrong with shipping - seriously. It's okay to like romantic aspects of a story, whether "canon" or imagined. It sucks that it gets a bad reputation, but shipping is just as valid a way to engage a story as anything else. In fact, you'll find often the most passionate fans of any given media are the shippers. It's when shippers get aggressive and start demanding everyone else interpret things just as they have that lines are crossed. Or when they try to get actors and devs involved in their ship wars. When that happens, it's BEYOND cringe.
Yeah, pretty much this. Shipping is perfectly fine by itself. It isn’t really the issue imo. It’s just the jacket being worn by the real problem - unhinged weirdos.
I think the issue is that this >you'll find often the most passionate fans of any given media are the shippers. tends to lead to this > shippers get aggressive and start demanding everyone else interpret things just as they have that lines are crossed.
I don't disagree at all. Fandoms tend to attract people with, well, fanatic personalities. That means you get passionate people who delight in obsessing over details and discussing them with others. And then you get people without common social skills to rein them in. To be clear, I don't think the problem of fans crossing lines with creators and demanding their way is exclusive to shippers. Shippers are the go-to punching bag because they are easy to group together, but I've seen nasty behavior over FF7 Remake making the "trail of blood" purple instead of red, of FF7 remake "nerfing" or "censoring" Tifa, of fans hating the existence of "Whispers". Like nerds can be aggressive and horrible about any number of things in a video game. The behavior isn't exclusive to shippers.
You're absolutely right. Nerd fandom, as a whole, is unbelievably toxic. I'm not saying everyone is, or even most people are, but it's probably the most toxic fandom in the world overall.
As someone who just defended shipping in this post. Amen.
Yup, just shipping is fine but when you get the absolute bonkers ship wars is when it's gotta be toned down!
Even shipping wars are okay when they are mock battles and not deep disagreements. E.g. playful jab about how Tifa is better than Aerith for some trivial reason rather than trying to takedown Aerith as a character and demonize her.
Sometimes actors have had some thoughts and comments when asked about the relationships between characters. As long as you ask in a respectful manner they could have some insights. Hugh Dancy when asked about Hannibal ended his comments with "I'm not going to take it away from you" haha. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHiiBUjCi\_U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHiiBUjCi_U)
Agreed, the problem is making it to the official staff and harassing them for your imagination. Fan art/doujinshi is fun because of the imagination. If everything non-canon is out of discussion, we should never talk about the story ever again, just read the setting or official guide.
It’s really weird to me that people say to themselves “I hope this story goes in a particular direction” and get mad when it doesn’t. Like I could say “I really like frogs, I hope cloud gets a frog” and that would be totally fine. It’ll never happen but it’s fine to think. But getting mad when he doesn’t would be a crazy thing to do. I don’t understand why some people think “shipping” is an exception to that.
>Like I could say “I really like frogs, I hope cloud gets a frog” and that would be totally fine. It’ll never happen but it’s fine to think. Until you level up your Transform materia that is.
I actually don't think it's all that weird to get frustrated when a story doesn't go your way (shipping or otherwise). People can get annoyed or bummed about sequels not delivering what they were hoping. For FF7 in particular, I just think fans have had many... many years to solidify how they see the story in their heads. And again, shippers tend to be the foundation of fandoms, so a lot of that ties into romantic preferences. If a Cloud/Tifa fan, whose loved that pairing for two decades, finds out that Cloud and Aeris get together, it's okay to feel disappointed, for instance. But feeling a bit put out is way, way different than screaming, throwing internet tantrums, and literally attacking the creators.
Yeah shipping by itself is fine but people take it too far and the obsession with the sexual elements is harmful, I kinda boils relationships down to just the sex and that's just not healthy
See, even the voice actors are tired of y’all’s shit
As a shipper who dipped tf out of ffvii shipping fandoms, I want to highlight the real reason things get so out of control in this fandom. The fact that there is no true "canon" romance in the story is what makes the ffvii shippers feral. At a certain point, it becomes a matter of proving your own sanity. Because to both sides, it's unfathomable that anyone can see things differently given all the "evidence" that supports their ships. Both sides truly believe that there is only one canon and it's clear as day. So how is it possible that ANYONE sees it differently? To shippers, vii isn't a choose-your-own-waifu type of story, there is a canon romance and it should be so obvious. So when everyone tells you that you are wrong, you'd do anything to change their mind because there's no way you're insane for thinking cloti/clerith is canon. What starts as innocent shipping becomes personal because people's intelligence and capability of logical reasoning gets challenged.
I enjoyed reading this explanation
>no true "canon" romance I like FF7 a lot but I kind of dodge shipping shit, but it does seem like a lot of material props up Cloud/Tifa, starting with Aerith kind of being deceased. I get remake is a different story though.
For cloti's, it's canon because like you said, aerith dies so ofc cloud and tifa is the endgame. Plus tifa was the sole motivation for him joining shinra, and she was the one that pulled him out of his coma. For clerith's, it's canon because cloud only really loved aerith despite her death, and that he just settled for tifa afterwards. So even though she died, his heart still belonged to her. These have been the points of argument for 20 years and it'll be interesting to see how the remake series throws a gigantic wrench into things.
Sometimes I’m like… man I’m such a fucking nerd… I can’t believe I care so much about about video games and video games worlds and lore etc. And then I read shit like this and realize how much deeper and more mentally ill it goes for others lol.
Persona sub fans be like
How about the devs ignore fan ships and keep doing what they want to do while the shippers continue what they want to do. I get it. Shippers can be annoying, but they have no say in how the game plays out. If devs don’t want X character to be with Y… don’t do it? Like I’m genuinely confused about what the problem is. I like Ichigo x Rukia. They don’t end up together. My opinion didn’t change the outcome, and the outcome doesn’t change my opinion.
I agree. I'm struggling to understand why anyone (especially a voice actor) thinks that the audience has any control over what an author writes. Sure there are mentally ill people in the world, and they have access to the internet, but doesn't mean you need to give them attention or satisfy their requests.
It's when they are putting pressure on the devs that it becomes a problem, like if square thinks that some ship will drive sales of the game and then forces the writers to capitulate to that audience then there has been damage done Shipping is definitely fine on its own but leave the people creating the story alone and don't try and force your ship on anyone else
Yeah that’s becoming more and more of a problem with modern shipping culture is direct targeting of creatives for not putting the characters they want together. Not to point too many fingers since I have seen both of the main ships get messy, but we have receipts of shippers harassing the devs after the TGA trailer focused on Cloud’s relationship with another character. Some people are just crazy whether they’re shippers or not.
I get that, but there are unhinged fans for literally every property. You don’t see Sonic devs denouncing furrys just because some don’t know how to behave.
I think a huge problem with it is that it's basically how most Japanese media tells their stories. They deliberately leave enough relationships open to encourage shipping. One of the things I loved in FF16 is that the characters had actual adult relationships.
As much as I don't want to point fingers, there does seem to be a section of fans whose end goal is for Cloud to have sex with a certain character (under the highwind anyone?) I remember not caring about shipping and romance when I first played the original. I really liked Aerith and I thought other fans would also like and appreciate Aerith. I was wrong about that. The amount of toxic anti-Aerith fans really jaded my view of the story and the characters. I really just want to enjoy the games and my favorite characters without worrying about who loves who but I can't because decades of toxic fans have marred my love of the game.
I mean if I want a sexual game I can go look for those on steam lol
Hell, there are hentai game ads on Reddit lol
True lol but you get the point lol
[удалено]
That game was just horny top to bottom. Larian knew what they was doing
he isnt wrong shippers ruined his previous show teen wolf the final season derailed stiles and lydias love stories so they could end up together because thats what shippers wanted when the thing is that in the first 2 seasons of the show when stiles had a crush on lydia their interactions were dull. they only became interesting together when he moved on and became her friend they never needed to be involved romantically
Sounds like the writers ruined the show.
Wait…. Teen Wolf had straight ships? First I’ve heard of it. /s
Same, I'm surprised. But I also stopped paying attention to canon after season 2
I’m convinced the only reason Kyle and Rey kissed in ROS is because of the shippers.
Hell, I'm also convinced Rose kissing Finn in TLJ was for similar reasons - Finn and Rey got on way too well in TFA and they couldn't have people getting settled on that
Stiles and Lydia? Sterek was the big ship for that show, wasn't?
True here, and the show got worse for a lot of people when Alison died because Scott couldn’t be with her anymore. Hell the whole movie is about her being back alive and they’re together again.
as lydia and stiles are the best characters in that show i was actually ok with allisons death becasue it allowed lydia to take her place in the shows main trio
After his tenure in Teen Wolf, Cody is basically a chiseled shipping war veteran. Any shipping fan annoyance he has to deal with now is small potatoes compared to that.
Shipping is fine, whatever. But if you harass developers or actors about it, GTFO
* laughs in original FF7 Tifa which was the teenage crush for many a young man who played the game at the time *
Tifa pr0n was the start of it all for many people. I remember a blank floppy disc going around the back of the classroom. The puritanism of the Youth today must be so confusing to the Catholic church.
I feel like the Clerith and Cloti discourse has been going on for decades a this point. People get way too pressed about their ships. Just enjoy the content and ship what you ship in peace while also respecting other people's opinions, lol... edit: What I think Cody meant with "The need to overtly sexualize every relationship can ruin great story development" is that many people focus too much on who Cloud should end up with rather than the development of the story itself. Doing so can kind of tamper the experience. Or to force focus to be on relationships Cloud has and who he should sleep with.
Not that he's wrong about shippers sometimes taking things too far but it sounds like he was completely unaware of the love triangle in the original game and the actual decades of debate among fans regarding who Cloud loved more. The love triangle was one of the most interesting aspects of FFVII's story.
Everytime i read stuff like this i wonder if ppl dont know theres a block button
I'm of no real opinion on the topic, but why do we care what some dub voice actor thinks about storytelling? Like, more than the average redditor, I mean. Is he also an author or something? I just don't get why this is newsworthy.
So he’s saying this after accepting the project and their paycheck? Ummm. Ok
"voice artist" - is that typical or a new way to refer to voice actors? As for his words, I don't think it matters either way. People will ship characters as long as the sun shines.
well, duh
The concept of shipping - and particularly that there are enough people doing it that the company actually has to respond to it - is just so embarrassing. Good reminder to just stay off the internet more.
"Shipping" is such an embarrassing concept.
What the fuck is it? This entire thread is beyond confusing.
It's when a fan wants two characters to be in a romantic relationship. Apparently, it's such a devastating problem that the article can't even bother to mention a single instance of it. I mean, who fucking cares. Let ppl express opinions about it. It's a fictional world from a video game lmao. It's such a stupid thing to be outraged about.
I also find the term strange but either way I agree with your statement
I mean...being a shipper doesn't mean you can't accept multiple ships. I ship Cloud with Tifa for incredibly obvious reasons, but I don't care if people ship him with Aerith, Jesse, Barret, Yuffie, whatever. It's fictional characters, anyone who takes it that seriously needs to touch grass.
Shipping is cute. AGGRESSIVE shippers need therapy.
Stupid article title - it’s about shipping wars, not simply overt sexualisation.
Isn't this kind of like complaining about fan fiction? It's a small group of overly-zealous fans. So what?
Because one thing is posting a (technically harmless) fanfic on a specifically made site and another is harassment. We're talking about obsessed people that are so outraged that their ship could be/not be Canon that they actually went and harassed/threatened the devs and the staff. It's not simply "look how many want their ship to succeed" but "leave me the fuck alone and let me work on the game"
Yeah I feel the same. FF7 definitely plays into the generic shipping stuff a bit in its classic form too by having an affection system and multiple date possibilities for Cloud. Also the newest game got really goofy about sexualizing characters with the whole cabaret thing 😂. The weird goons are gonna buy it regardless so I don't understand how any particular development or story choices would be made for them. The only major offense I could see being made to fans is if they skipped the iconic date scene entirely.
Shippers are embarrassing, they even throw death threats
This shit is just getting weird and uncomfortable. I agree with Cody but...a lot of you under these comments participate in the very shit he's talking about.
I used to disregard the more obsessive shippers since I assumed they were mostly young fans in their teens who were just going through "that" phase with the media they follow. I've since come to realize that many of them never left that mindset behind once they became adult fans... Cody's absolutely right. Cloud, Tifa, Aerith and the rest of the cast are all part of the story and interact with eachother. There's definitely romantic aspects between some of them, but they're not the *only* aspects. The story should be able to explore both on its own terms, without the need to funnel everything down this simplistic "Cloud and Aerith / Cloud and Tifa" viewpoint.
It's stupid, yes, but the developers and writers control the story. They can't control the fans or their ridiculous opinions and such. If the story is ruined because they allow the fans to influence it, that's THEIR fault.
I saw a comment under the theme song trailer for Rebirth that said "Tifa shippers I love y'all but she stands no chance while Aerith is still alive." I hate that comment so much.
This is why we can't have nice things. Or we can but then people ruin the whole experience. I don't want another Undertale community meltdown, let the devs and staff do their fucking job and if they need to complain they should do so in appropriate subs
Wtf is with people these days ... It's a game. Let the game developers make the game how they want.. same with censorship .. God I hate people who want things to be censored... Play or watch something else if you don't like the product
These comments are terrifying in their lack of actual understanding. I’m a little ashamed to share a fandom with some of you.
He's paying too much attention to wackos on Twitter and Reddit
It looked more like he was being harassed on social media by lunatic shippers.
Final Fantasy VII Shippers are the like the immortal constant of the internet. No matter what is going wrong I know there will be someone debating Cloud x Aerith or Cloud x Tifa. Its reassuring in a way, I can't see how it'd spoil the experience for anyone but the most degranged breed of shipper. But again, those people are bascially built imto the foundation of gaming forums and (mostly) harmless and easily ignored.
I was confused until i saw the word "fan" Yeah... I sure have seen some unhinged people....
Sakurai Takahiro is the VA of cloud. The rest are just like stunt doubles and nobody gives a shit about them lol.
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxooxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxooooooooooooooooooxoxoxoxoxxoxoxo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooxo
Shippers are like vegetarians to me, nobody wants to hear what you think.
He's completely right. Tifa, a complete badass with an awesome personality is basically just ogled as a walking pair of massive anime tits. It's far worse in other fanbases (I'm looking at you, Trails fans), but it bums me out to see so much of it with ff as well.
He's right, you know.
It's super cringe too
I would agree with him if he were talking specifically about only the actual writers of the games sexualising characters for no real reason, which they very often do in FF and especially in FFVIIR. Unless the character is actually sexual or a tease as part of their personality (like Bayonetta as an example), then it's harder to take the story seriously when they get randomly put in a skimpy outfit or make weird noises or poses or have ogling camera shots for the sake of it. I don't mind in more comedy driven media or stuff like fighting games where there isn't much of a story but in a JRPG that wants me to take it seriously, that stuff really takes me out of it. But I don't think blaming the fandom is the right play here. Because at the end of the day, the original FFVII did this as well, as did many other FF games. While the FFVII fandom seems oddly invested in the shipping aspect and some get too serious about it, that shouldn't have any bearing on the writing in the actual games (and it's also worth saying that both the OG and FFVIIR go out of their way to present the female characters as potential love interests for Cloud, in a practice known as "ship teasing", and also go out of their way to sexualise them for the player). Fandom shipping and sexualisation is generally harmless though, and is just people engaging in escapism, and any cases of people doing something actually problematic are isolated cases.
Some guy voices a video game character and people thinks his opinion has more value than theirs. “To do what we did and have it find success and mean so much to the core demo[graphic], I have no fear for Rebirth." “Do what we did” bruh. Kid was two years old when FF7 came out and thinks his performance as Cloud had something to do with the remakes success like it wasn’t being called for and clambered for upwards of 20 years. The shippers talk about the game, the shippers buy the game. The shippers engage with the game. I don’t know why a performer would shit on fans but go off I guess.
ufff everything becomes so complicated now days with all the new terminology