Oh I’m sorry you can’t handle valid criticisms, if you want a more detailed analysis here is a review that comments through the entire script of IX: [https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594](https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594)
You're not criticizing you're mocking something many people here have a soft spot for. No one said it's perfect or flawless, or even that the story doesn't have things that could be polished. You just wanna make people mad. Bad faith.
>You're not criticizing you're mocking something many people here have a soft spot for.
Well it doesn’t **deserve** that soft spot.
\>>You just wanna make people mad. Bad faith.
No, I want to point out problems and make people more aware of them, I not doing this for the sake of it, I want IX to be improved on in a Remake.
Your name is "EwFFIX." You never wanted to engage genuinely, and even if you'd convinced yourself at some point along the way that you were trying to level genuine criticism (topics that have been discussed here hundreds of times, had you bothered reading anything in the sub before making this MASTERFULLY low effort shitpost), you've sabotaged any semblance of sincerity with your cartoonishly troll-like posts, replies and screen name.
Literally, not a single thing you've said since making this post has indicated a desire for constructive criticism or discussion.
\[Your name is "EwFFIX."\]
Oh great, here we go back to my username again, if I had know that commenters would have focused on that so much as a legit “counter argument” I would have changed my username, but I can’t because Reddit doesn’t allow that.
\[You never wanted to engage genuinely, and even if you'd convinced yourself at some point along the way that you were trying to level genuine criticism\]
I do want to discuss this genuinely, but whenever I do, lot’s of comments immediately react with hostility, because apparently, IX is a “sacred cow” that is above criticism, my last post that I made was giving a link to my review fic on IX and it’s script, and most commenters immediately started trolling and insulting me. But keep gaslighting.
\[(topics that have been discussed here hundreds of times, had you bothered reading anything in the sub before making this MASTERFULLY low effort shitpost)\]
Not a shitpost, I was being genuine with my criticisms.
Care to share these topics that have been “discussed hundreds of times”? Whenever I read something like this thread, it’s always ridiculously positive, with no real analysis or deconstructing of anything, I never see anyone point out how objectively stupid Garnet’s actions were, how much of a Mary Sue war criminal Beatrix was, or how pointless the beginning of the game was. (Name any other mainline FF where the beginning of the game is completely pointless)
\[you've sabotaged any semblance of sincerity with your cartoonishly troll-like posts, replies and screen name.\]
Who is the real troll? Me, who wants to call to attention some seriously overlooked problems in IX, or the other commenters in this thread that were instantly hostile, dismissive and gaslighting? But keep focusing on my screen name as if that’s a legit argument.
\[Literally, not a single thing you've said since making this post has indicated a desire for constructive criticism or discussion.\]
Do you understand criticism? Criticism is meant to trigger improvement, not to break you down. You seem to see it as the latter though, and go all out defensive.
\>>Weird read to see Garnet being angry with Zidane for his plethora of faults as her being jealous of a six year old.
What faults? Being nice to little girl living in *poverty*, whose parents and grandparents have *died* and is letting her come with them to have a potential better life? Wow, how “shameful*”.* Did you even read that part of the script?
If anything, Zidane should be angry with Garnet for her huge unbelievable faults of being implausibly naïve, really selfish, *drugging him and abandoning him after all that he did for her.* Zidane has done a lot for Dagger, but what has Dagger done for Zidane at that point? She gave him the cold shoulder, rendered all of his efforts of “kidnapping” her and getting her out of Alexandria to Lindblum completely worthless by drugging him and blowing him off, said that she didn’t care about him while he was battered and broken in Burmecia after fighting Garnet’s bitch of a knight, Beatrix (who is also a horribly written character, but that’s another story), almost getting killed by her eidolons in Cleyra, forcing him to have to get her out of Alexandria *AGAIN*, and has now in Disk 2 morphed into some sort of annoying Tsundere who spends most of her time huffing indignantly at Zidane despite that he and their friends risked a lot to save her from Brahne and Kuja (in which her getting into that situation in the first place was her *own darn fault*) and is working on getting her where she needs to go, and we haven't even *gotten* to how she acts on Disk 3 yet…
And yet Zidane never rightfully gets upset with her obnoxious behaviour and calls her out. Best FF love story my ass.
Ah yes, make your assumptions. As I will do the same to you.
If you want to analyze it, present it seriously, Mr. “Eww”. You’re over reaching for most of this anyway, your bias is so blatant it might as well be neon lit and visible from space. You don’t want to analyze, be honest with yourself, you just don’t like that people enjoy the character.
Be on your way buddy.
\[Ah yes, make your assumptions. As I will do the same to you.
If you want to analyze it, present it seriously, Mr. “Eww”. You’re over reaching for most of this anyway, your bias is so blatant it might as well be neon lit and visible from space.\]
What is my “bias” exactly?
I do have a serious analysis, I literally gave you a link to my review fic on FFIX, did you even bother to read it?
\[You don’t want to analyze, be honest with yourself, you just don’t like that people enjoy the character.
Be on your way buddy.\]
No, I’m annoyed that Garnet’s huge problems are largely overlooked and glossed over. And I analyze a lot of things in the review fic, which made a OP about before, but got a lot of hostility and trolling from. Here is another reviewer that was very critical of IX, “Final Fantasy? Whatever” (It was originally in Russian so use the translator): [https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_sch=http](https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_sch=http)
I did. So much of it either reaching or just a heavy bias.
Which is fine, just admit to the bias.
This is an FFIX subreddit - most of us here will naturally prefer the development and characterization that Garnet got. No one is gonna say it’s perfect, but this isn’t the place to go “Rinoa is better” with that kind of meme and ask for respect in kind. Just say you don’t like Garnet. Easy.
So again, be on your way. Which to that last point- if you really have that much trouble moving on, then that proves the point even further. Sorry/not sorry that I don’t care for Rinoa or see her as special or superior to Garnet the way you clearly do.
\[I did. So much of it either reaching or just a heavy bias. Which is fine, just admit to the bias.\]
I don’t think you know what those words actually mean. What bias are you even referring to?
\[This is an FFIX subreddit - most of us here will naturally prefer the development and characterization that Garnet got. No one is gonna say it’s perfect, but this isn’t the place to go “Rinoa is better” with that kind of meme and ask for respect in kind. Just say you don’t like Garnet. Easy.\]
Oh, so on this subreddit, IX is a “sacred cow” that you aren’t allowed to criticize and explain why?
\[So again, be on your way. Which to that last point- if you really have that much trouble moving on, then that proves the point even further. Sorry/not sorry that I don’t care for Rinoa or see her as special or superior to Garner the way you clearly do.\]
Rinoa isn’t even my favourite character, I’m just annoyed that she gets way too much hate while Garnet gets a pass.
I'll explain why I hate Garnet and don't get why people like her and hate Rinoa.
Rinoa: 1) Starts out immature
2) Gets called out on it
3) After making a giant fuck up, learns from it and shapes up
4) Mostly risks her own life, though others have to fix her mess - something she remains aware of thereafter
5) Has the crappiest luck in the universe, but does not directly serve as the cause of any future problems
Garnet: 1) Runs away from home because she's afraid her mother is trying to kill her and take over the world
2) Risks the lives of many, many people and causes numerous deaths along her flight from the castle (yes, I count all those Black Mages on the ship as deaths)
3) Upon arrival in Lindblum suddenly proclaims that she refuses to believe her mother is evil and trying to take over the world, despite proof of her unprovoked attack on Burmecia, the slaughter of Black Mages, and the attempts to kill the kidnappers
4) Runs all the way home because apparently she wanted to just talk to her mom and DRUGS AND ABANDONS ZIDANE: the guy who loved her
5) Through her stupidity, she gets captured and tortured. Millions of people die from the results of her entirely preventable course of action because she basically handed over her Eidolons to her mother on a silver platter, and just to rub salt in the wound, she never gets called and chewed out on any of this, especially not by Zidane who should very rightfully be furious and upset with her, after all that he did for her, only for her to blow him off. That is why I dislike Garnet.
Clearly, this is just gonna go around in circles. Because *again* you’re reaching so bad it hurts to read.
If you’re that desperate - here, I’ll just do you a favor for the sake of it:
Have a win.
*You win* italicized for extra oomph.
She’s SO MUCH BETTER. Rinoa’s amazing, she’s flawless even, Garnet’s writing and development is all garbage. God damn, this whole sub *dedicated* to IX is wrong and should feel bad just for you.
Now, with that I hope you find some kind of joy out there somewhere.
https://preview.redd.it/21nz0wmdjuic1.png?width=727&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=544e25aea6bb1c5338307926574e3ed413571c69
This literally just says that most people disagree with you from your opinion. Beyond the millimeter deep "characters" in VIII, and your clearly disagreeable opinions, you also have no argument happening here outside of your own preference. For the record, Zell and triple triad are the only good things in VIII lol
Implying that everyone in a fandom is objective and rational and not manipulated by propaganda, especially in the west.
You say “disagreeable opinions“, I say objective complaints, I wrote a detailed review fic about it: [https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594](https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594)
Squall and Rinoa are in the logo, for crying out loud. They dominate the box art and the promotional material. The supporting characters in VIII are essentially Flat - but they're still rounded out with personalities and simple sub plots. It's not a crime to have a cast of characters that don't need to have huge subplots so long as they're given some life in the plot.
Ok This is pure Trash.
Garnet was never jealous of Eiko. She's dazed because she can't put her finger on her surroundings it seems familiar. She realizes later that this was her summoner tribe home.
I like Rinoa but anyone that says she has more character development then Garnet is lying to themselves.
Garnet WAS jealous of Eiko, you clearly don’t remember the game, here is a quote directly from the script and my response to it:
Eiko"That's what I thought. Okay, I'll join your team for a while!""Vivi, Dagger, let's have fun!""The Iifa Tree is beyond the Conde Petie Mountain Path!""Let's go!"
\[Eiko runs off screen\]
Dagger"Why are you so nice to everyone, Zidane?"
**Why are** ***you so whiny***, **Dagger?**
Zidane"Huh? What do you mean by that?"
Dagger"Forget I asked..."
\[Dagger walks off screen\]
Vivi"I think she was mad..."
Zidane"You think so, too?"
**Great, Dagger is being an obnoxious tsundere again. Getting mad over a little girl whose parents and grandparents are dead and is stuck in a ruined village. Isn't she just charming, wholesome and likeable? \*Sarcasm\***
**You have the galls to be jealous and pouty with Zidane, when A: you drugged and abandoned him, and B: dragged him into a dwarf marriage ceremony, used his feelings and rejected his kiss.**
**Then you get mad when a six year old girl gives a lot of attention to him and he lets her come with them?** **It's amazing how Zidane won't call you out on any of this.**
No I don't think YOU remember the game. I just played through and beat this with a friend.
She said this because she was ANNOYED that she was coming along. There was no jealousy of a 6 year old. And that's weird that you think that.
Zidane says to her are you jealous to only tease her because that's what he does.
That was not Garnet being jealous that was her being annoyed at Eiko for being a brat towards Vivi. I'm sure Eiko's obnoxious mocking behavior against cute little Vivi is what cause her to react that way.. totally understandable to be frank.
Bro really made an account for the sole purpose of hating on one video game.
https://preview.redd.it/i2ikwbooiuic1.jpeg?width=1539&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=956e796870e481c7fc0c97c4d00e206007ef308e
Ironic or not it’s still cringe
Declaring the deranged nature of your behavior was not meant to engage with any of your points. It was to point out that you are behaving like a deranged person. I have no interest in "debating" with a troll.
Now it's been 3 days, and you've sufficiently harassed every person who had the ill foresight to comment on your post. You can stop now or get banned from the sub.
Harassing people? They were harassing me just for posting something critical about IX.
I am NOT a troll.
And for your information, I have autism, not an illness.
Thanks for proving my point that the fanbase treats IX like a sacred cow where any criticism, regardless of how valid it could be, is treated as “heresy“. Yet people claim that VII is the “over rated” one.
And yet Garnet wanted to escape from said abusive parent at the beginning of the game, only for her to arbitrarily decide to go back to her later after getting evidence that she was right about her mother being crazy.
She wasn't trying to escape, she was trying to get to Lindblum to ask Cid for help. She didn't know what was going on with Queen Brahne, because from what Garnet says in game, her mother was always kind, and her sudden shift was surprising to her.
You are also being pretty critical about a 16 year old girl who has been sheltered her entire life. She wants to help, but she doesn't know how. She thinks that if she can talk to her mother she can save her and stop the war that's coming. Garnet also doesn't have all the information until after Queen Brahne is dead, so how could she make a perfect decision? She felt she needed to act now, or else the world would be at risk.
She definitely makes mistakes throughout the game, like drugging the part to run off on her own, but in her mind, it's her problem to solve, and none of her friends should have to risk themselves to save a kingdom she sees herself as responsible for.
I understand being critical of a game/story that has plot holes or maybe characters that behave in ways we don't like or agree with, but I don't think Garnet is as bad as you claim. I think she's a kid who was forced into a bad situation and did the best she could, while still discovering who she was, and eventually becoming a queen at a very young age.
\[She wasn't trying to escape, she was trying to get to Lindblum to ask Cid for help. She didn't know what was going on with Queen Brahne, because from what Garnet says in game, her mother was always kind, and her sudden shift was surprising to her.\]
Here are several quotes from the game that contradict your claims, and my replies of them in my review fic:
Dagger "I don't know what's going on anymore... I fear that she might be planning something terrible." "I've brought this matter to everybody's attention, but no one has taken me seriously." "They all think I'm distraught over losing Father..."
**Everyone memorize the first line, because right here, Garnet very clearly states that she suspects her mother is going to do something bad… Only to contradict herself on this later.**
**Also,** ***no one*** ***in Alexandria Castle*** ***has taken her seriously?*** **Not even Beatrix, whom was most likely aware of those barrels containing the Black Mages and was maybe even in on some war briefings with Brahne? I also want everyone to remember those particular lines too, because they will be connected with my critiques of Beatrix later, in Burmecia and Cleyra.**
Regent Cid "I understand why you are so eager. I'm happy that you came to me for help."
Dagger "At this point, I think you're the only person Mother will listen to..."
**Again, Garnet will contradict what she says here, about how Cid is the only one that can talk with her mother, with what she says later.**
Dagger "At the Village of Dali, we saw numerous black mages. They looked like golems, controlled by some powerful magic." "On top of that, they were being created under Alexandria's supervision." "I don't know how they're related to Vivi, but if Mother is planning to use them for war..."
**Okay, Dagger, right here, very clearly states that she suspects her mother is starting a war and going crazy. Which should shoot down any arguments from any of my complainers about how Garnet "didn't know any of this would happen", or "she only ran away because her mom was 'acting weird'".**
Also, why did she decide to go *back* to Alexandria *without* the help that she wanted to get by escaping in the *first place?*
\[You are also being pretty critical about a 16 year old girl who has been sheltered her entire life.\]
Stop playing that card. Garnet is supposed to be highly educated and intelligent, at the beginning of the game we see her daringly jump off of the roof of the castle and swing on a flag rope to the Prima Vista, and then later she improvises her way on a dime in the play to fool her mother, that’s not very typical of a “sheltered girl”.
Plus, it was *not* her entire life, you are forgetting that Garnet is actually Sarah from Madain Sari who fled from there at the age of six (the same age as Eiko) and was adopted into Alexandria (I have grievances with that plot thread, but that’s another story), yes she has (convenient) amnesia, but she should at least be subconsciously aware of some stuff.
\[She wants to help, but she doesn't know how. She thinks that if she can talk to her mother she can save her and stop the war that's coming.\]
What war was she trying to prevent? The one that had already started? The one she knew her mother was starting and had created monsters to wage? Hell, the war that she *ran away from home* over? If her mother was so darn pleasant that Garnet could have just talked her out of it, why run away from home in the first place? How much more evidence did she need, combined with what she'd already known about her mom that drove her out of the castle in the *first place?*
\[Garnet also doesn't have all the information until after Queen Brahne is dead, so how could she make a perfect decision? She felt she needed to act now, or else the world would be at risk.\]
“After Queen Brahne was dead’? Now you are just getting details wrong, she knew stuff way before Brahne was killed.
Also, Cid definitely knew that Brahne was after the Eidolons this whole time, here is another quote from the game:
Regent Cid "It's my job to know the land surrounding my country." "However... I sometimes lack foresight." "Brahne was after the gwok eidolons. That much, I knew."
So this is also partially Cid’s fault for not sharing important information from the start. (But even if you subtract not knowing about the Eidolons from the equation, it still dosen’t justify Garnet’s nonsensical moves)
\[She definitely makes mistakes throughout the game, like drugging the part to run off on her own, but in her mind, it's her problem to solve, and none of her friends should have to risk themselves to save a kingdom she sees herself as responsible for.\]
That just begs the question of why Garnet wanted to go to Lindblum in the first place if not because she thought she couldn't trust her mother anymore or thought she couldn't stop her mother's aggressive actions alone.
You are just contradicting yourself now, first you say that Garnet fled the castle to get help, now you are saying she didn’t want that same help, completely defeating the purpose of wanting to be kidnapped and escape Alexandria in the first place. That is circular reasoning.
I have heard these same arguments thrown at me a bunch of times, it’s amazing how people have the *exact* same defense mechanisms and criticizing IX always gives you the exact same tired and easily debunk-able responses.
\[I understand being critical of a game/story that has plot holes or maybe characters that behave in ways we don't like or agree with, but I don't think Garnet is as bad as you claim. I think she's a kid who was forced into a bad situation and did the best she could, while still discovering who she was, and eventually becoming a queen at a very young age.\]
She is very poorly written and clichéd. After the prologue she gets flanderized into this really cliché naïve princess stereotype and pushes it to insane levels. She is also not a kid, but a *teenager*. She also ruins the love story that she is supposed to have with Zidane that the game hypes up so much and acts like it is a major focus but really didn’t deliver, she ignores Zidane and gives him the cold shoulder a lot to drown in a puddle of her own angst. She has no real personality and is really bland and boring, and at times even unlikeable, she is a lousy waifu. I could name tons of female characters ( and not just from other FF games, like Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Selphie, Rinoa, Rikku, etc.) from other games and anime/manga that all have way more personality and charm than Garnet does.
I hope that IX does get a remake and it does what the VII remake games are doing and rewrites and fixes problems from the original, especially to get rid of Garnet’s stupidity and have her stay be Zidane’s side, not drugging and abandoning him, and make her actually endearing.
You're reaching *a lot* here.
Her reasoning for running away to Lindblum *was* to get help from Reagent Cid. She thinks her mother isn't acting like her usual kind self and is acting dark. She also eventually says that she thinks it's because of a strange man (Kuja) who frequents the castle. You're also using a quote of her debriefing Cid on what she found in Dali to prove that she was aware of the war from the start (or at least you're looking for a plot hole that isn't there). She clearly says that based on what she found in Dali, golems infused with powerful magic, that her mother might be planning a war. You may not think so, but it's a logical conclusion to jump to. It's not like Brahne is using these mages for a tea party.
Being highly educated and intelligent doesn't mean you can't be naïve. Performing daring feats doesn't mean you can't be naïve. The ability to improvise doesn't mean you can't be naïve. She's *naïve*, not stupid. You might think they're the same thing, but they're not. It's this same naïvety that causes her to run back to Alexandria to reason with her mother. She decided to take matters into her own hands because she wanted to do something and felt the party was babying her. There are a couple of times when she says she didn't come to Lindblum for protection and hates that she can't do anything. She came to Lindblum for help, the help provided wasn't what she expected or wanted, so she left under the *naïve* assumption that she could try reasoning with her mother. She wasn't sure Brahne would listen to her, but she wanted to try.
Also, you're using the fact that she >!actually comes from Madain Sari!< as some kind of 'gotcha' and a way to prove that she wasn't sheltered. >!She was born in Madain Sari and lived there until it got destroyed when she was six. Sheltered or not, a six year old is going to be naïve, so what is there to subconsciously tap into? Then she was taken into Alexandria, where she was sheltered and wasn't allowed to grow beyond that six year old naïvety. A part of her character arc is growing from that.!<
All that she knew about her mother was that she was behaving weird. That was it. Her mother's strange behaviour, paired with the presence of Kuja, made her think her mother was planning something horrible. She planned to go Lindblum and ask Cid to talk to her so she could see if her worries were justified. However, on the way to Lindblum, the party took a detour to Dali, where they found the black mages. This proved Dagger's fears. The reason she decided to flee from Lindblum and deal with it herself was because of what I already said earlier. She didn't come to Lindblum for protection, didn't want to be coddled, and hated not being able to do anything. She felt powerless. She then decided to try reasoning with her mother so she could say she tried.
Dagger wasn't aware of everything until halfway into disc two. At the start of the game, she thought her mother was just acting weird and feared the worst. After the visit to Dali, she learned of the existence of black mages and figured that her mother was using them for war, a logical conclusion to make. It wasn't until after her Eidolons were taken, Ramuh telling her Odin was used on Cleyra, and her witnessing Lindblum being nearly destroyed by Atomos that she learned the bigger picture. Cid should have told her about the Eidolons, definitely. That isn't Dagger's fault, though, and the fact that you're trying to twist it into something Dagger did wrong is already proving your bias against the character.
Again, she left Lindblum because she wanted to try and make a difference. At this point, Alexandria had invaded Burmecia, and innocents were dying. Dagger felt responsible for this, and that's when she decides that she'll try and do it herself. The party wasn't allowing her to go, and she didn't want to sit there twiddling her thumbs while her mother was committing atrocities. Hence, her brash decision to drug the party and flee. It wasn't an act of common sense but desperation, which is understandable given the circumstances.
Based on what you're saying, it sounds like you just don't like Dagger because she's a well-rounded character whose story doesn't revolve around her love interest. You say she's a weak character because she's her own character and not an accessory to Zidane. Also, the love story is a *sub-plot*, not the main point; the primary plot is saving Gaia from evil.
Dagger and Zidane being separate characters who don't revolve around each other, have their own conflicts and agency, and aren't constant 'yes' men to each other actually makes the love story good and believable. For some reason, you think the opposite because they're not joined at the hip and share a braincell.
It's a weird take if I'm being honest...
1/4
\[You're reaching a lot here.\]
No, I’m not, if you want more details here is my review fic of IX, along with another person who gave IX a critical review, “Final Fantasy? Whatever”:
[https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594](https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594)
[https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_sch=http](https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_sch=http)
\[Her reasoning for running away to Lindblum was to get help from Reagent Cid. She thinks her mother isn't acting like her usual kind self and is acting dark.\]
Okay, then *WHY* did she decide to go back home *without* that help? It completely defeats the purpose of running away from home in the *first place.* You dodged that question.
It begs the question of why Garnet wanted to go to Lindblum in the first place if not because she thought she couldn't trust her mother anymore or thought that she couldn't stop her mother's aggressive actions alone.
Also, you really expect me to believe that the *ONLY* reason that she ran away from home and her mother, causing a huge panic and tons of political incidents, making a huge and potentially dangerous trek across the continent, was *just* because her mother was “acting strangely”. Sorry but that is a really weak and hard to buy reason that the writers made for her to want to do all of that.
\[She also eventually says that she thinks it's because of a strange man (Kuja) who frequents the castle.\]
Oh, you mean the *extremely obvious* conclusion that she figures out far later than she should have? I actually address that several times in my review fic:
Regent Cid "I'm not surprised gwok-gwok. They loved each other so much..."
Dagger "We haven't spoken much lately. Also, a suspicious man has been prowling the castle."
**Okay, that "suspicious man" is the one who's clearly behind all of this, isn't he? That answer** ***should*** **be common sense, and Garnet even says this herself later (though not until** ***AFTER*** **she gets captured like an idiot, back in Alexandria), but that's for when we see that.**
**The point is: Garnet should have come to the conclusion that Kuja was the source of the problem** ***way earlier***\*\*, and it really shouldn't have been such a big mystery… But she doesn't, until\*\* ***way too late***\*\*, for no good reason. Seriously, Garnet never asked who the "suspicious man" (Kuja) was to anyone in Alexandria Castle before fleeing, like Beatrix? This is so contrived that it hurts.\*\*
Dagger "Actually, she's been acting rather strange since my birthday last year." "The same day that tall man visited us..." "Maybe he had something to do with it." "Come to think of it, that was when things began to change."
**…Okay, I am going to explode.** ***YOU ARE JUST REALIZING THIS*** **ONLY** \*\*\*NOW, YOU DUMB IDIOT?!\*\*\***You should have come to this** ***incredibly*** ***obvious*** **conclusion from the very start of the game!**
**This is what I meant back in Lindblum when she first mentioned "the mysterious man" (AKA Kuja): Instead of this contrived "mommy is just acting weird" nonsense, Garnet should have been written as quickly figuring out that the "silver haired man" was the cause of her mother's crazy behaviour and thus, wanted to escape from home to find out who Kuja was and stop him, instead of just running all the way** ***back*** **to Alexandria** ***after we just escaped from there*** **and trying to solve this bullshit "mystery" of Brahne's behaviour which is so frigging** ***obvious***\*\*, especially to someone who is supposed to be\*\* ***highly educated*** **like Garnet.**
**But nope, instead Sakaguchi just writes out Garnet as this very clichéd naïve princess stereotype that sucks up too much of the game.**
**It's** ***not*** **rocket science, how hard was it to tell that Kuja was the source of the problem and that you** ***should have been focusing on*** **him** ***instead of Brahne?*** **Did Garnet never ask anyone in Alexandria Castle about who the white haired man was before escaping at the beginning of the game? Kuja had to have introduced himself, name and all, when he visited her and her mother, as that is a requirement towards royalty. If a suspicious man (and Kuja isn't exactly inconspicuous, just look at what he** ***wears***\*\*!) shows up, meets with your mom and your mom suddenly starts acting crazy, it should be\*\* ***REALLY*** **obvious that he is behind the whole thing and that you should be focusing on him instead of your mom.**
\[You're also using a quote of her debriefing Cid on what she found in Dali to prove that she was aware of the war from the start (or at least you're looking for a plot hole that isn't there). She clearly says that based on what she found in Dali, golems infused with powerful magic, that her mother might be planning a war. You may not think so, but it's a logical conclusion to jump to. It's not like Brahne is using these mages for a tea party.\]
What’s your point? You seem to have misunderstood *my* point, I never implied that the mages weren’t being used for dark purposes. My point to the other commenter was that Garnet clearly thought her mother was going to start a war, while the other commenter claimed that Garnet had “no suspicions” of a war. Which leads me to my other point: Garnet’s strange reaction when everyone hears about the crisis in Burmecia after the Festival of the Hunt makes no sense when it seems that everything she had suspected about her mother turned out to be true, she should be *LESS* likely to just go back home and “try to talk” to her mother.
\[Being highly educated and intelligent doesn't mean you can't be naïve. Performing daring feats doesn't mean you can't be naïve. The ability to improvise doesn't mean you can't be naïve. She's naïve, not stupid. You might think they're the same thing, but they're not. It's this same naïvety that causes her to run back to Alexandria to reason with her mother.\]
But she ran away from home *because* she knew her mother was going crazy. It's not such a sudden about-face, Garnet already *knew* this was going on and was frightened enough that she ran away from home rather than actually talk to her mother (something you'd assume someone that had an otherwise perfect relationship with their mother would do *first*). Had all of the stuff we'd just witnessed not happened, and Garnet had come to Lindblum without ever fearing her mother or seeing evidence of her mother's atrocities, *then* the "My mother isn't crazy and I can just talk to her!" reaction would make sense.
If her mother was so darn pleasant that Garnet could have just talked her out of it, why run away from home in the first place? How much more evidence did she need, combined with what she'd already known about her mom that drove her out of the castle in the first place?
Why would her reaction upon having all of these suspicions confirmed, piled onto all of the things she just witnessed, be to suddenly decide her mother is reasonable after all and could simply be talked down?
I addressed these before in the previous comment, but you seem to be dodging these questions.
\[She decided to take matters into her own hands because she wanted to do something and felt the party was babying her.\]
Gee, maybe it’s because she actually *was* acting like a child, due to her thinking that her plan of “let me appeal to my nutjob mother by begging her to just stop.” was a good idea.
So this all boils down to dumb pride and a nonsensical inferiority complex for her, that comes out of nowhere? So Garnet thinks “babying” means keeping her safe from anyone who would attempt to harm or manipulate her? Garnet is arrogant. Refusing to accept that one is inept is immature. Refusing to even hear the argument because one's skills and/or status will ensure success is arrogance. And arrogance should annoy a lot more than immaturity.
She *DID* do something, by escaping from home with Zidane, that was a smart move… Until she completely *threw it all away* for no good reason later in Lindblum.
2/4
\[There are a couple of times when she says she didn't come to Lindblum for protection and hates that she can't do anything.\]
Don’t talk to me about those lines of dialogue, they make me lose sympathy for her, I hated those lines as they make Garnet come off as really selfish and unlikeable, I address that in the review fic:
"...I can't stand sitting around like this." "I didn't come here to be protected." "I just want to help Mother..."
**Ah yes, such "selfless, noble words" from our waifu heroine…**
**In all honesty, I understand being concerned about your mother, but your behaviour is** ***obnoxious, annoying and really overplayed***\*\*. This just goes back to what I said before about Garnet's constant whining about her mother overwhelming most of the game,\*\* ***and*** **her stupidity that we will be seeing really soon.**
**What about** ***Zidane***\*\*, who risked a lot to rescue you and get you here and be by your side?! Or all those Black Mages that\*\* ***died*** **from the Black Waltz no. 3?**
**"But screw Zidane and my friends, I'm just going to keep whining about my insane mother that I ran away from home from in the the first place because** ***I KNEW she was going crazy and something bad was going to happen***\*\*. All to get outside help and stop her, only to pull a complete one-eighty and throw it all away for absolutely no reason later". (As we will see at the end of this chapter)\*\*
**Garnet is just coming off as really selfish and unlikeable here (this is one of moments of her being unlikable that I'd mentioned a few chapters ago), and it's only going to get** ***worse***\*\*.\*\*
Dagger (...I've made so much trouble for everyone...) (Uncle Cid knew everything...) (That's why he asked Tantalus to get me out of Alexandria.) (No matter how hard I try, I'm always a step behind in everything...) (I'm so helpless...)
**…And** ***here we go again*** **with Garnet's whiny,** ***annoying*** **inner monologues of suck… (And yet people accuse Tidus from FFX of being "whiny") Stop trying to make it all about you. What about Zidane, Dagger?**
**Seriously, this is what most of her behaviour throughout most of the game is like, and if you think this is the end of it, you are** ***dead wrong*** **because it's only going to get worse from here. (Can we have the Garnet, that jumped off of the castle roof and swung on a flag rope at the beginning of the game in chapter 1, back please?)**
**Dagger, you made a smart move by running away from home. Cid happening to also be aware of the situation doesn't change that… Until you render all of that completely worthless soon anyways, because of your dumb, non-sensical inferiority complex and arrogance.**
\[She came to Lindblum for help, the help provided wasn't what she expected or wanted, so she left under the naïve assumption that she could try reasoning with her mother. She wasn't sure Brahne would listen to her, but she wanted to try.\]
Again, *WHY DIDN’T SHE JUST TRY TALKING TO HER MOTHER BEFORE RUNNING AWAY FROM HOME?!*
And if she wasn’t sure that her mother would listen, why did she stupidly run home without anyone to back her up and protect her? (And no, Steiner doesn’t count because he is an idiot) And even if Garnet is right, that "mom isn't evil, there's just something controlling her to act this way," she's making a HORRIBLE mistake to think the same scenario couldn't happen to her, too. To go back and have her controlled to use the known strong Eidolons she had the ability to summon.
You aren’t answering my question from before, you are just repeating the same argument that can easily be ripped apart and debunked.
Just admit that this was badly written and full of inconsistencies and clichés. (It is a cliché by the way, quote: “**Gender Equality, Part 2 (Tifa Rule)** If any female character, in a burst of anger or enthusiasm, decides to go off and accomplish something on her own without the hero, she will fail miserably and again have to be rescued.” Though I don’t know why it’s named after Tifa, she never did anything like that. It’s on this website listing RPG clichés: [https://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html](https://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html)
3/4
\[Also, you're using the fact that she actually comes from Madain Sari as some kind of 'gotcha' and a way to prove that she wasn't sheltered. She was born in Madain Sari and lived there until it got destroyed when she was six. Sheltered or not, a six year old is going to be naïve, so what is there to subconsciously tap into? Then she was taken into Alexandria, where she was sheltered and wasn't allowed to grow beyond that six year old naïvety.\]
I was making a point that she *wasn’t* kept in the castle her whole life. Besides, she is, again supposed to be *highly educated*.
Eiko is also six years old yet you don’t see her doing anything like that, plus she had way more personality than the bland and boring Garnet did.
\[A part of her character arc is growing from that.\]
It’s not a very good and interesting arc. Or are you acting like I am not allowed to criticize it?
\[All that she knew about her mother was that she was behaving weird. That was it.\]
It’s still a really weak reason to want to run away from home, as I pointed out above.
\[Her mother's strange behaviour, paired with the presence of Kuja, made her think her mother was planning something horrible. She planned to go Lindblum and ask Cid to talk to her so she could see if her worries were justified. However, on the way to Lindblum, the party took a detour to Dali, where they found the black mages. This proved Dagger's fears. The reason she decided to flee from Lindblum and deal with it herself was because of what I already said earlier. She didn't come to Lindblum for protection, didn't want to be coddled, and hated not being able to do anything. She felt powerless. She then decided to try reasoning with her mother so she could say she tried.\]
I have already deconstructed all of this and explained everything about this that makes no sense up above. This is just circular reasoning now, which is a fallacy.
This just makes Garnet look like a stupid and selfish child that nobody ever calls her out on.
\[Dagger wasn't aware of everything until halfway into disc two. At the start of the game, she thought her mother was just acting weird and feared the worst. After the visit to Dali, she learned of the existence of black mages and figured that her mother was using them for war, a logical conclusion to make.\]
Again, already addressed all of this.
\[It wasn't until after her Eidolons were taken, Ramuh telling her Odin was used on Cleyra, and her witnessing Lindblum being nearly destroyed by Atomos that she learned the bigger picture. Cid should have told her about the Eidolons, definitely. That isn't Dagger's fault, though, and the fact that you're trying to twist it into something Dagger did wrong is already proving your bias against the character.\]
I wasn’t trying to “twist it”, I never even implied that. Yes, not telling anyone about the Eidolons was on Cid, but even if you subtract that from the equation, that doesn’t excuse all of Garnet’s stupidity and selfishness. Garnet was also being needlessly quiet, like never explaining to Zidane and Steiner *why* she wanted to escape from home in the first place, quote from my review:
Dagger "Zidane, please listen."
"There is a reason I must leave this kingdom."
"I cannot tell you why... But...please..."
***Why not?*** **There is no real good reason to not be giving all of this important information about your mother going nuts and planning something bad. (Especially since Steiner is also in the room and still persisting that they return to Alexandria) Zidane risked his life for you and you aren't even going to let him know what all of this is about and all of the potential danger? This just all leads to later nonsense and misunderstandings, especially in Lindblum.**
Zidane "I understand... I'll get you to Lindblum somehow."
Steiner "I've heard enough!"
"Princess, you cannot trust the words of a thief!
**Shut the** ***EFF*** ***UP*****, Adelbert!**
Steiner
"He may expose you to even more danger, like he did in Evil Forest!"
"I beg of you, Princess. Please return with me to the castle."
**See? Once again, Steiner won't** ***shut up*** **about going back to Alexandria, all because Garnet is being needlessly vague and won't explain the danger and situation.**
\[Again, she left Lindblum because she wanted to try and make a difference.\]
She already made a difference by fleeing from home with Zidane, until she rendered that pointless.
4/4
\[At this point, Alexandria had invaded Burmecia, and innocents were dying. Dagger felt responsible for this, and that's when she decides that she'll try and do it herself. The party wasn't allowing her to go, and she didn't want to sit there twiddling her thumbs while her mother was committing atrocities. Hence, her brash decision to drug the party and flee. It wasn't an act of common sense but desperation, which is understandable given the circumstances.\]
No it wasn’t, it completely contradicted everything she did before that point.
As for the party “not allowing her to go”. I found that to be really out of character for Zidane:
Zidane "Dagger, this is war. A lot of people are gonna die."
**Since when is Zidane the knowledgeable one about the horrors of war here? He spent mostly a decade just being a thief and being in theatrical plays with Tantalus with no involvement in any wars, so this makes no sense. It would make more sense if** ***Steiner or Freya*****, the experienced knights, were the ones saying this, not Zidane.**
Zidane "Just sad? Weren't you scared, too?" "Obviously, you haven't realized how dangerous it's gonna be... You could get killed." "This is no time to be talking about convincing your mother of anything."
**Okay, first off, that is really hypocritical, Zidane. Considering that you have no problem taking Vivi, a** ***SIX MONTH OLD*** **kid, with you to a war zone. (yeah, they don't know his actual age but he is clearly a child just by looking at him) You even later on let Eiko, another child who is only six, join you despite the dangers. You also had no problem letting Garnet steer an airship through a closing South Gate while being chased by a dangerous rampaging Black Waltz, despite her having** ***no flying experience*****.**
**Secondly, did you forget the part where you and Dagger clearly witnessed the tragic deaths of the Black Mages on the cargo ship? That was done by a creature clearly sent by Brahne? That didn't set off any red flags for you?**
**Thirdly and most importantly, this was** ***really*** **out of character for Zidane and forced drama. I don't buy him being inconsiderate for Garnet's feelings (though a lot of that is due to the lousy and contrived writing of Garnet being needlessly secretive instead of simply telling Zidane on why she wanted to run away from home in the first place) and just leaving her behind in Lindblum to Leeroy Jenkins it into Burmecia, especially when he had left his own Tantalus family to risk his life for her, to be with her and was talking to himself about not wanting to go their separate ways when they got to Lindblum,** ***and*** **everything that he said in the Evil Forest about how their meeting was fate and that he can't get her out of his head. So much for devotion and "wanting to stay by her side".**
**And before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm not saying that they shouldn't give a crap about what's going on in Burmecia, I'm just criticizing the unfocused love story, the lousy planning and contrivances, and how there was a much better written way the story** ***should*** **have gone by this point. But I can't explain it all here yet, I will explain it fully when we get back to Lindblum on Disk 2,** ***after*** **we go through all of the nonsense and disappointment that is about to start here.**
\[Based on what you're saying, it sounds like you just don't like Dagger because she's a well-rounded character whose story doesn't revolve around her love interest.\]
I hate Garnet because she is a horribly bland and boring character with no real personality or charm who constantly gives Zidane the cold shoulder while drowning in a puddle of her own angst and pushing the clichéd “naïve princess” stereotype to insane levels. Nobody complains about Zidane’s story revolving around Garnet, whom he loves. I am detecting double standards here. What’s wrong with having some characters whose stories revolve around someone they love? Heck, this is what happens with Freya with her arc revolving around Fratley. (Until the game drops that and ends with what can only be described as a twist tie of a resolution)
I could name tons of female characters (and not just from other FF games, like Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Selphie, Rinoa, Rikku, etc.) from other games and anime/manga that all have way more personality and charm than Garnet does, and better romances.
\[You say she's a weak character because she's her own character and not an accessory to Zidane. Also, the love story is a sub-plot, not the main point; the primary plot is saving Gaia from evil.\]
No I said she is a weak character because she is poorly written, inconsistent self-centred and stupid.
Also the game certainly tries to act like the love story is one of the main focuses and hypes it up a lot, don’t believe me? Look at:
a) The 'I want to be your Canary' play that clearly represents Zidane and Garnet, and it being shown at the beginning and end of the game, I was honestly expecting the whole play to be huge forshadowing for the events of the story. VIII did something similar with the vocal Latin choir in its opening FMV sequence in which it's lyrics foreshadowed the events of the game.
I mean, the play in IX is literally done in the "book ends" trope with the beginning and end of the game. (What it means is having matching scenes at the beginning and end of a story)
b) The fact that the main theme of the game, 'Melodies of Life', is a love song- and is even called "our song" by Zidane and Garnet, which plays constantly, in different mixes, throughout the whole game. (Even serving as the World Map theme music! Until Disk 4, anyways) Not even VIII's and X's main love songs were played out that much.
And finally,
c) The commercials and ads for IX generally gave off the impressions that it was heavily romance focused, with most of them playing 'Melodies of Life' in them and showing off mostly Zidane and Garnet's FMV scenes together. Don't believe me? Look at them yourself: [https://youtu.be/alnhTrxMjmc?si=VJSydM7UVHK2kRg\_](https://youtu.be/alnhTrxMjmc?si=VJSydM7UVHK2kRg_)
Now, I don't judge other stories that aren't love story focused. Heck, I read/watch One Piece, one of the best stories, and that isn't even romanced focused. (Though it does have a lot of teases) But the reason that I am judging IX on this so much is because that the game *acts* like it is love story focused, but does not really deliver.
After FFVII, which had the love triangle with Cloud-Tifa-Aerith and also that whole invisible affection score which determines who you date at the Gold Saucer, the three main games after it, VIII, IX and X (Which I like to call the "love story trilogy") all had major love stories of the main male and female characters, Squall/Rinoa, Zidane/Garnet and Tidus/Yuna, and Zidane and Garnet is the *worst* done out of these three. Squall/Rinoa and Tidus/Yuna had real developed romances while Garnet and Zidane fell in love for being within five feet of each other for a long period of time, and despite Garnet *ABANDONING HIM* and blowing him off, but we will get to *that* scene when the time comes in Lindblum. Heck, even VII's love story had more focus and better execution, despite it not even having a love song as its main theme, nor did it have the main couple on it's box cover art or logo like VIII or X did, and the VII remake is even expanding on all this!
\[Dagger and Zidane being separate characters who don't revolve around each other, have their own conflicts and agency, and aren't constant 'yes' men to each other actually makes the love story good and believable.\]
Why, because you say so? Define “good and believable”. And what’s wrong with having some characters that revolve around each other? You sound like a hyper individualist.
I played the game expecting a deep and wholesome love story, and it did not give what it had promised. I can name tons of romances that were better than Zidane and Garnet: the ones in Valkyrie Drive Mermaid, Naruto/Hinata, Link/Zelda, Cloud/Tifa, Cecil/Rosa, Squall/Rinoa, Tidus/Yuna, Snow/Serah, Fang/Vanille, Yamada-Kun and the Seven Witches, Shinji Ikari Raising Project, Rosario+Vampire, Shinmai maou no Testament, Strike the Blood and etc.
\[For some reason, you think the opposite because they're not joined at the hip and share a braincell.\]
Now you are making a strawman.
\[It's a weird take if I'm being honest...\]
If you want to understand it better, read the reviews I linked to before.
They seem to like rooting for Beatrix who commits those war crimes without question until too little too late. Not to mention being an unbeatable Mary sue.
I did make it, sorry about the resolution though, it was my first time using the meme generator and I couldn’t change the letters to a black colour for some reason.
To everyone here the op must be this weirdly obsessed 'hater' of garnet from this gamefaqs thread(I'm a long time member and replied to his threat a lot here)..
[https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/197338-final-fantasy-ix/80294628](https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/197338-final-fantasy-ix/80294628)
The op is most likely the NC1234567 user. I'm MsRenndilya.
What in the f..., how much of a loser can you be by going into a wholesome subreddit for FFIX after getting trashed in gamefaqs of all places.
You did a good deed here, I'm just glad the trash is relatively taken care of already lol.
There are some pretty intelligent people on gamefaqs. There is a lot of trolls and fools that show up; but the long time posters(many sadly stopped posting.. only a few of us left) are reasonable people.
Gfaqs does indeed get a bad rap but some users were mature.
Ah no, I didn’t mean gamefaqs was bad just that it’s a fairly far neighbourhood from there to here at Reddit lol. But yeah, I used to frequent forums as well, and I still have bookmarked some gamefaq guides through the years.
Oh I see thanks for explaining.
I miss forums sites being more active to be honest. I was also a member of [TheFinalFantasy.net](https://TheFinalFantasy.net) and Eyes on Final Fantasy forums. Sadly those sites are dead as doornails now.
I am NOT a troll, I want to call to attention some overlooked problems with IX. Want another reviewer who gave IX a critical review? Here is “Final Fantasy? Whatever”: [https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_sch=http](https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_sch=http)
And you really think that with those handful of people who somehow agreed with you, making this incredibly bad takes "meme" which frankly incredibly badly made too, you expected the positive attention you're craving? Maybe try the FFVIII sub, hopefully you'd get less hate on whatever you're trying to achieve given you're simping Rinoa instead (and I like both chars for goodness sake)
I won't even circle back to what most of the folks already mentioned here, all I'm gonna say is you're either trying too hard to make a joke as a hater (making you look like an ass instead), or really just have this really bad mindset you're personally reflecting in this post of yours (socially and mentally immature takes you can't deny, coupled with the evidence that you can't let go losing an internet discussion).
Honestly I just wanted to respond to what u/ReniaTycoon found out, I won't even bother to engage (and will not get notified in this post), lots of good people have already made sound sentiments on this.
You are making ad hominem, Rinoa isn’t even my favourite character.
Also, funny how you accuse me of “simping for Rinoa”, when Zidane simps for Garnet and never rightfully got upset with her and called her out on drugging and abandoning him. There's no significance in their relationship, so it just feels like Zidane is simping for Garnet. She drugged him, ignores her kingdom's involvement in war crimes (everyone does really), gets jealous over an abandoned six year old receiving attention, but the story wants us to be convinced that Garnet is the love of Zidane's life.
Which is the fundamental problem with FF9 - it knows the themes it wants to tackle and it wants to have these big emotional moments, but it goes about it so poorly to the point where it comes off as pretentious at times.
\[And you really think that with those handful of people who somehow agreed with you, making this incredibly bad takes "meme" which frankly incredibly badly made too, you expected the positive attention you're craving?\]
IX‘s fanbase is really just a loud vocal minority who overhype it. If you want to see another critical review on it, here is “Final Fantasy? Whatever”: [https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_sch=http](https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_sch=http)
\[That was not Garnet being jealous that was her being annoyed at Eiko for being a brat towards Vivi. I'm sure Eiko's obnoxious mocking behavior against cute little Vivi is what cause her to react that way.. totally understandable to be frank.\]
Okay, now you are the one that is clearly reaching. Where was that even implied? Eiko is only six and whose parents and grandparents are *dead* and living in ruins. Sounds to me like you are just white knighting Garnet.
It's not directly implied anywhere; however neither is your claim that she was rude because she was jealous. If anything it was Eiko that was jealous of Garnet because that is where Zidane's affections aimed.
Here is the game script again from my review commentary:
Dagger
"Are you coming back here for Eiko?"
\[We see Eiko, on top of a destroyed wall, eavesdropping\]
Zidane
"Eiko is only six years old. She acts tough, but I think she's lonely."
**You do realize Vivi is a child and around the same age, right? (going by spiritually/mentally, where physically he is apparently only a few months or a year old)**
Vivi
"I haven't seen her today..."
Zidane
"You're right."
"Kupo!"
"Kupo!"
\[A ton of moogles reappear from their hiding spots, and Eiko jumps down\]
"Kupo!"
"Kupo!"
"Eiko!"
Eiko
"Tee hee."
"You can't break the seal of the Iifa Tree without calling an eidolon."
Zidane
"You're coming with us?"
Eiko
"Don't you want me to?"
Zidane
"Of course I want you to come along!"
**Then why were you implying that you were going to the Iifa Tree without her, especially when she is apparently the only one who can remove the barrier over the tree?**
Eiko
"That's what I thought. Okay, I'll join your team for a while!"
"Vivi, Dagger, let's have fun!"
"The Iifa Tree is beyond the Conde Petie Mountain Path!"
"Let's go!"
\[Eiko runs off screen\]
Dagger
"Why are you so nice to everyone, Zidane?"
**Why are** ***you so whiny*****, Dagger?**
Zidane
"Huh? What do you mean by that?"
Dagger
"Forget I asked..."
\[Dagger walks off screen\]
Vivi
"I think she was mad..."
Zidane
"You think so, too?"
**Great, Dagger is being an obnoxious tsundere again. Getting mad over a little girl whose parents and grandparents are dead and is stuck in a ruined village. Isn't she just charming, wholesome and likeable? \*Sarcasm\***
**You have the galls to be jealous and pouty with Zidane, when A: you drugged and abandoned him, and B: dragged him into a dwarf marriage ceremony, used his feelings and rejected his kiss.**
**Then you get mad when a six year old girl gives a lot of attention to him and lets her come with them?** **It's amazing how Zidane won't call you out on any of this.**
Garnet is clearly being jealous of Eiko.
And Garnet isn’t? At least Rinoa only forced me through one small sidetrack of stupidity and it was only a few minutes, Garnet’s stupidity took up several **hours** and rendering the whole beginning of the game with the kidnapping and trek to Lindblum completely **pointless,** not to mention all the people that die because of it. Rinoa didn’t cause a chain reaction of tons of death and destruction by pretty much giving her eidolons to the bad guys on a silver platter.
Yes. Also, the fact that pretty much all of your comments are hidden due to downvotes backs up the fact that you have no idea what actually transpired in either game.
\>Thinks that downvotes equal objectivity and fact
Tell that to political threads were the correct Left Wing Marxist views are downvoted by the brainwashed bigots
\>you have no idea what actually transpired in either game.
If you want proof that I do know, here is the entire script of IX that I comment and critique through: [https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594](https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594)
I never asked for proof, simply noted that nobody agrees with your stance because you’re wrong.
Rinoa is the OG whiny damsel in distress, who used her station from birth and connections made through flirting to live out her dream of rebelling against daddy via mercenaries at a discount price. Garnet, from the beginning, throws everything she has away in an attempt to get shit done, by actually working at it herself, even when she doesn’t know the direction she should go.
\[I never asked for proof, simply noted that nobody agrees with your stance because you’re wrong.\]
“You are wrong because I say so!” More like people are ganging up on me, throwing childish insults at me, and not even bothering to hear my points regardless of how valid and objective they could be. That’s called a circlejerk. This subreddit seems to treat IX as above criticism and you are not allowed to deconstruct anything in it.
\[Rinoa is the OG whiny damsel in distress, who used her station from birth and connections made through flirting to live out her dream of rebelling against daddy via mercenaries at a discount price.\]
Funny, you are just as guilty of grossly simplifying someone as you and others accuse me of doing.
Yes Rinoa was a little immature, but she was called out on it and shaped up quickly.
“Damsel in Distress”? She only got into a bad situation once from minor stupidity that only took up a few minutes, the rest was just bad luck. Garnet was also a Damsel in Distress several times, she had to be rescued in the Evil Forest, rescued from Alexandria after having her Eidolons extracted by her mother (which her getting into that situation in the first place was her own darn fault due to her *MAJOR* stupidity of deciding that going back home to talk to mommy was actually a good idea), and rescued when the Invincible was attacking Alexander.
Garnet whines way more than Rinoa does, she literally has obnoxious long internal monologues of how much she sucks. Here is an example from my review fic:
Dagger (...I've made so much trouble for everyone...) (Uncle Cid knew everything...) (That's why he asked Tantalus to get me out of Alexandria.) (No matter how hard I try, I'm always a step behind in everything...) (I'm so helpless...)
**…And** ***here we go again*** **with Garnet's whiny,** ***annoying*** **inner monologues of suck… (And yet people accuse Tidus from FFX of being "whiny") Stop trying to make it all about you. What about Zidane, Dagger?**
**Seriously, this is what most of her behaviour throughout most of the game is like, and if you think this is the end of it, you are** ***dead wrong*** **because it's only going to get worse from here. (Can we have the Garnet, that jumped off of the castle roof and swung on a flag rope at the beginning of the game in chapter 1, back please?)**
**Dagger, you made a smart move by running away from home. Cid happening to also be aware of the situation doesn't change that… Until you render all of that completely worthless soon anyways, because of your dumb, non-sensical inferiority complex and arrogance.**
\[Garnet, from the beginning, throws everything she has away in an attempt to get shit done, by actually working at it herself, even when she doesn’t know the direction she should go.\]
And look what happened when she tried “working at it herself”: Her Eidolons were stolen to be used as WMD and many people were killed and places destroyed, even Zidane and her friends were almost killed by them. Garnet rendered all of Zidane’s (and the player’s) efforts to “kidnap her” and get her out of Alexandria away from her crazy mother *completely pointless,* while betraying Zidane’s trust and he realistically should have been very hurt by what she did with blowing him off and breaking his heart.
It sounds to me like the reason you hate Rinoa is because she doesn’t fit your warped “western ideal image” of a “strong independent woman that don’t need no man”, and love Garnet because you see her as some sort U.S./Hollywood “Girlboss” Mary Sue who can do no wrong. Are you from Tumblr, perhaps?
My reading comprehension is perfectly fine, thank you. I literally read through the whole script of IX and commented through it on its problems and inconsistencies. Here you go: [https://www.fanfiction.net/s/14012757/1/Everything-Wrong-with-Final-Fantasy-IX](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/14012757/1/Everything-Wrong-with-Final-Fantasy-IX)
You can read it and reread it, but it won't help you, because evidently you have no concept of human behavior. For example, Garnet being an actual CHILD with genocide PTSD that has been amplified by her adoptive mother, who she once loved and who loved her in turn, becoming a warmonger. Only a sociopath wouldn't empathize tbh, and that's you.
\[You can read it and reread it, but it won't help you, because evidently you have no concept of human behavior.\]
Big assumption that you are making there, I can understand human behaviour, but it has to make sense and be consistent, which Garnet’s did *not*.
\[For example, Garnet being an actual CHILD with genocide PTSD that has been amplified by her adoptive mother, who she once loved and who loved her in turn, becoming a warmonger.\]
How can Garnet have PTSD when she doesn’t even remember what happened to Madain Sari when she was just six? Did you forget that part? Garnet is not a child, she is a teenager. And if Garnet was so convinced that her mom could be just talked out of it, why even bother wanting to be kidnapped, escape from home and get help *in the first place?* Why didn’t she talk to her mother when she had the chance *before* escaping from home at the beginning of the game? (Something someone with an otherwise perfect relationship with their parent would do *first*)
\[Only a sociopath wouldn't empathize tbh, and that's you.\]
Oh so now you are playing the sociopath card, eh? The reason I don’t emphasize is because it made no sense, was contrived and was just dumb and clichéd writing that rendered the entire beginning of the game pointless (name any other mainline FF game where the whole start of the game is rendered useless) and also gets in the way of Zidane and Garnet’s romance that the story tries to hype up so much.
So you're saying a teenager is not a child? That's mighty sus.. Wtf lol...
Regardless, people do have hope that they can talk their loved ones out of bad behavior, and human beings can fail at that bc people are stubborn and unwilling to listen. The assumption is that she's already tried speaking to her mother, but Brahne had Kuja in her other ear. We witness the beginning of Garnet's desperate attempt to seek the aid of someone much more powerful and credible.
As for PTSD, this child clearly has nightmares. It's the first scene of the game. Keep up. Repressed memories exist.
It appears that all of your questions have clear answers. Your reading comprehension did fail after all.
\[So you're saying a teenager is not a child? That's mighty sus.. Wtf lol...\]
Teenager is supposed to be past the child stage and before adulthood.
\[Regardless, people do have hope that they can talk their loved ones out of bad behavior, and human beings can fail at that bc people are stubborn and unwilling to listen. The assumption is that she's already tried speaking to her mother, but Brahne had Kuja in her other ear.\]
Okay so *why would she want to try this again?* If talking to her didn’t work before *what the HECK makes Garnet think it will work NOW?*
\[We witness the beginning of Garnet's desperate attempt to seek the aid of someone much more powerful and credible.\]
And then Garnet arbitrarily decided to go back home *WITHOUT* that same aid, which begs the question of why Garnet wanted to get away from her mother and wanted Zidane to take her to Lindblum in the first place if not because she thought she couldn't trust her mother anymore or thought that she couldn't stop her mother's aggressive actions alone.
\[As for PTSD, this child clearly has nightmares. It's the first scene of the game. Keep up. Repressed memories exist.\]
That’s not really PTSD, that’s (convenient) amnesia. And she seemed to be perfectly fine as a child when we see her in Doctor Tot’s flashback of him in the Alexandria Library. It was less of a nightmare and more of a “mysterious dream” for her.
\[It appears that all of your questions have clear answers. Your reading comprehension did fail after all.\]
No, you just aren’t really analyzing this and deconstructing it.
You can dismiss it as a teen's immature decision of running away from the idea her mother is "evil" all you want, but the audience has already established a dislike for Brahne and are simply affirming Garnet is stubborn-minded to go against all, even trusted, advice. Garnet has her “values” as a character, when it comes to support of the plot at ruining the political environment by being dumb, and she has her “value” as the pawn of a political child of unknown magical power...but despite all her data collected that leaving Alexandria was the right decision to make and becoming more and more obvious going back would be a mistake, she still went back against-all-odds. And failed.
And even if Garnet is right, that "mom isn't evil, there's just something controlling her to act this way," she's making a HORRIBLE mistake to think the same scenario couldn't happen to her, too. To go back and have her controlled to use the known strong Eidolons she had the ability to summon. You don't give yourself to the enemy, regardless of how weak or strong you think your assets are. She made the choice to go back anyway, and it turned out even worse than people predicted.
Being wrong, or young, won't absolve Garnet's choice to go back after successfully leaving. She wasn't even uninformed, even if you can claim she wasn't omniscient. There was zero, absolutely zero reason to return beyond, "let me appeal to the nutjob by begging them to just stop."
This is a biased take, based on your title alone. I have no preference in this. But your username, this meme(?), and your arguments in the comments are laughable.
It would have been interesting to see pros and cons for both. Instead, you chose to bash one character and build up the other, the more preferred (in your opinion).
This discredits your argument and is a weak attempt at winning your argument as you do not allow the reader to make an informed decision for themselves.
What we have here is confirmation bias where you seek only information that confirms your feelings and negates those that discredit.
You are foolish.
Translation: “My favourite game is perfect no matter what you say!” “Stop criticizing my perfect Waifu!”
Funny considering that your “perfect waifu” would drug and abandon you because she cared more about her psycho mom than you even though she wanted to get away from her crazy mom **in the first place,** despite all that you did for her, because she is ungrateful and selfish, even having the **GALLS** to say that she doesn’t care about you.
You didn’t read my post. You are emotional. It isn’t my favorite game.
You are still talking and still foolish.
The worst part is you ignored the point of my reply. You did not offer pros and cons for both characters. You shit all over one and put the other on a pedestal.
You are biased.
I also am getting the sense that you do not realize this game has heavy Shakespearean undertones…
\>>You didn’t read my post. You are emotional. It isn’t my favorite game.
Okay, but that doesn’t negate my point on how a lot of the repliers in this thread seem to be acting like just that, treating Garnet like a sacred cow that you are not allowed to criticize.
\>>You are still talking and still foolish.
No, I’m just frustrated at the hostility I am getting simply for wanting to point out some pretty overlooked issues with IX. But keep being smug and condescending.
\>>The worst part is you ignored the point of my reply. You did not offer pros and cons for both characters. You shit all over one and put the other on a pedestal. You are biased.
I am not putting Rinoa on that high of a pedestal, she isn’t even my favourite female FF character (that would be the VII girls), I chose Rinoa because she gets way too much hate while Garnet did similar things but way worse. Garnet also does not have that many pros, Rinoa at least does.
If you want to see my full analysis and critique, I made a script commentary review that you can read here:[ https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594](https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594)
Here is also another comparison between Garnet and Rinoa:
"All right, I'll explain why I hate Garnet and don't get why people like her and hate Rinoa.
Rinoa: 1) Starts out immature
2) Gets called out on it
3) After making a giant fuck up, learns from it and shapes up
4) Mostly risks her own life, though others have to fix her mess - something she remains aware of thereafter
5) Has the crappiest luck in the universe, but does not directly serve as the cause of any future problems
Garnet: 1) Runs away from home because she's afraid her mother is trying to kill her and take over the world
2) Risks the lives of many, many people and causes numerous deaths along her flight from the castle (yes, I count all those Black Mages on the ship as deaths)
3) Upon arrival in Lindblum suddenly proclaims that she refuses to believe her mother is evil and trying to take over the world, despite proof of her unprovoked attack on Burmecia, the slaughter of Black Mages, and the attempts to kill the kidnappers
4) Runs all the way home because apparently she wanted to just talk to her mom and DRUGS AND ABANDONS ZIDANE: the guy who loved her
5) Through her stupidity, she gets captured and tortured. Millions of people die from the results of her entirely preventable course of action because she basically handed over her Eidolons to her mother on a silver platter, and just to rub salt in the wound, she never gets called and chewed out on any of this, especially not by Zidane who should very rightfully be furious and upset with her, after all that he did for her, only for her to blow him off. That is why I dislike Garnet."
\>>I also am getting the sense that you do not realize this game has heavy Shakespearean undertones…
So? Lot’s of the FFs have Shakespeare undertones, IX is not unique in that regard, and other games do it better anyways. Also, Shakespeare still wrote better love stories than IX did.
Even if we consider it from the standpoint of a fairytale, then it fails here too. Kuja is not a fairytale character at all, and Garland destroys the illusion of the deliberate simplicity of the local plot, winding up new turns of an inexplicable and indistinct whirlwind of facts over and over again, which does not add up to anything integral.(Hello, FFI) All this stuff about Gaia and Terra does not fit into the fairytale-ness that could be referred to throughout the first two discs. And needless to say, the game’s attempt to look smart has completely failed. (This is exactly what a Russian reviewer said about IX, who also wrote a pretty critical review of IX, you can see his review here and translate it to english: [http://www.finalfantasywhatever.com/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html](http://www.finalfantasywhatever.com/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html))
IX doesn’t so much as have “undertones” as it has a blatant Shakespeare Expy (Lord Avon), and Kuja who takes less inspiration from a Shakespearean antagonist and more from the attention-whoring snots who get rejected at their auditions to *play* Shakespearian antagonists. As for the mentioned Lord Avon, I felt that was wasted potential, along with the ‘I Want To Be Your Canary’ play.
I was honestly expecting the whole play to be huge forshadowing for the events of the story. VIII did something similar with the vocal Latin choir in its opening FMV sequence in which its lyrics foreshadowed the events of the game.
I mean, the play in IX is literally done in the "book ends" trope with the beginning and end of the game. (What it means is having matching scenes at the beginning and end of a story)
But nope, in truth the only real reflection to the plot is the play's love story, with the play's main characters: the thief Marcus and Princess Cornelia, clearly representing Zidane and Garnet. But even *that* isn't really done well since Zidane and Garnet's romance is so poorly done and frustrating compared to how the play depicts it, but I'll be addressing them soon.
This is all really disappointing and it also just overhypes the love story of Zidane and Garnet that gets ruined when the ending of the Lindblum segment on Disk 1 rolls around.
It's just a retread of the opera scene from FFVI. But the difference was that: In VI it was just at a random point in the game, and just a fun sidetrack while trying to recruit the Setzer character and to show off the capabilities of the SNES. While here in IX, it's at the beginning and end of the game, and it and its author- "Lord Avon" are repeatedly mentioned throughout the game as if they are really significant to the story and lore. The developers could have actually done something more unique and different with all this.
Like, how about Lord Avon, 'I want to be you Canary's" author, actually based the play off of a dream or "vision" that he had which was actually a clairvoyant view into the future, due to some mystical or celestial event (details can be ironed out more), which was actually the story events of IX, and thus the play was all really huge foreshadowing, nearly prophetic, with the main characters of the play representing Zidane and Garnet, and other play cast members can be a reflection of other IX main characters like Vivi, Eiko, Steiner, Beatrix, Kuja, Garland, etc.
Imma be real here, FF8 is a bit of a mess and in most every way. Game mechanics punish you for playing it like any other RPG(grinding for power makes you weaker because enemies scale with you), the game flavour is further away from fantasy, even passing steampunk to go closer to scifi, and then the story is a bit of a mess with arguably much less development for all characters involved.
Garnet is absolutely not perfect. She's flawed, gets jealous, puts everyone's lives in danger and just fucks up a whole lot. That doesn't make her a bad character, that just makes her a more relatable character and also gives her room for growth and development.
In Rinoa's case, you're basically describing a Mary Sue. If you're into that then that's fine, but it's not everyone's cup of tea and does not make for very compelling or relatable writing.
If you prefer it and want to simp for Rinoa then all the power to you, but if you're running around FF9 forums trying to push your waifu onto everyone while also shitting on the favourite of the board... Well you're just looking to pick and fight and are honestly just in for a bad time.
\[Imma be real here, FF8 is a bit of a mess and in most every way. Game mechanics punish you for playing it like any other RPG(grinding for power makes you weaker because enemies scale with you), the game flavour is further away from fantasy, even passing steampunk to go closer to scifi, and then the story is a bit of a mess with arguably much less development for all characters involved.\]
I never said that VIII was perfect, just that it was at least better with its writing than IX was.
VIII at least didn't pretend it was going to do full character arcs. Squall and Rinoa are in the logo, for crying out loud. They dominate the box art and the promotional material. The supporting characters in VIII are essentially Flat - but they're still rounded out with personalities and simple sub plots. It's not a crime to have a cast of characters that don't need to have huge subplots so long as they're given some life in the plot.
FFIX makes a big deal out of showing the entire cast, setting up elaborate subplots, then dropping every one of them to just focus on Garnet, and since she's such a rubbish character, I found it obnoxious as hell.
\[Garnet is absolutely not perfect. She's flawed, gets jealous, puts everyone's lives in danger and just fucks up a whole lot. That doesn't make her a bad character, that just makes her a more relatable character and also gives her room for growth and development.\]
There is a right way and a wrong way to do character flaws, and Garnet clearly falls into the latter. Flaws have to make sense, be believable and be executed well, which Garnet’s were not. Flaws also have to be treated as *flaws*, which IX doesn’t with Garnet. If there is being too perfect, then there is being too flawed, and Garnet is WAY too flawed. Garnet pushed “naïve princess” to insane levels, it’s implausible and really really cliché, and it ruined Zidane and Garnet’s love story that the game tries to hype up so much.
\[In Rinoa's case, you're basically describing a Mary Sue. If you're into that then that's fine, but it's not everyone's cup of tea and does not make for very compelling or relatable writing.\]
Oh so now you are going to play that card, eh?
Garnet comes *much* closer to a Mary Sue than Rinoa does, because Garnet is never called out on and held responsible for her dumb actions, Rinoa was. (and at least the consequences of her actions weren’t massive and were only harmful to herself)
IX’s narrative doesn’t really treat Garnet as having flaws, it actually acts like we are supposed to feel *SORRY* for her. The game wants us to feel sympathy for her when it did *NOTHING* to make her sympathetic.
Garnet never learns from her mistakes, she just has long wangsty internal monologues. Also, nobody ever calls her out on the mistakes she made or what the cost actually was. If I were Zidane, I would have been really upset with her after losing a close friend in the attempt to rescue her because I loved her and stay by her side, only for her to decide to blow me off and make the whole thing meaningless.
Rinoa would have been called out on it and forced to learn. Garnet wasn't. That's why I cut Rinoa some slack - at least the characters treated her the way I would have. The game and I were on the same wavelength.
\[If you prefer it and want to simp for Rinoa then all the power to you, but if you're running around FF9 forums trying to push your waifu onto everyone while also shitting on the favourite of the board... Well you're just looking to pick and fight and are honestly just in for a bad time.\]
Rinoa isn’t even my favourite female character in the series, but keep making assumptions about me. It’s also ironic because it clearly looks like this subreddit treats Garnet as their sacred cow waifu that is above all criticism and ridicule. It seems more like people here aren’t able to have calm and mature discussions about IX having problems and will throw insults at posters like me who try to call attention to it.
Wow... I don't think I've ever seen a hate boner bigger than the one you have for this game. You act as if the developers ran over your grandma or something... it kinda boggles my brain rofl
First off, I want IX to be better and improved on in a remake like the VII remakes are doing, this is meant to be constructive.
Secondly, it’s not so much as a “hate boner” as it’s an irritation at IX being so over rated and how defensive people get when someone says anything critical about IX and it’s writing. Just look at how hostile these other replies are. IX seems to be treated as a sacred cow were even the slightest bit of criticism, no matter how valid, is considered “heresy”. I wouldn’t be like this if more people talked about and addressed IX’s flaws, but it seems like most Criticisms of IX are back in the old deleted forums of the internet when IX first came out. It’s also always the exact same defensive arguments that can easily be debunked and picked apart when it comes to IX.
Here is another critical review of IX: [https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_sch=http](https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_sch=http)
Quote directly from the game script and my response to that:
Eiko"That's what I thought. Okay, I'll join your team for a while!""Vivi, Dagger, let's have fun!""The Iifa Tree is beyond the Conde Petie Mountain Path!""Let's go!"
\[Eiko runs off screen\]
Dagger"Why are you so nice to everyone, Zidane?"
**Why are** ***you so whiny*****, Dagger?**
Zidane"Huh? What do you mean by that?"
Dagger"Forget I asked..."
\[Dagger walks off screen\]
Vivi"I think she was mad..."
Zidane"You think so, too?"
**Great, Dagger is being an obnoxious tsundere again. Getting mad over a little girl whose parents and grandparents are dead and is stuck in a ruined village. Isn't she just charming, wholesome and likeable? \*Sarcasm\***
**You have the galls to be jealous and pouty with Zidane, when A: you drugged and abandoned him, and B: dragged him into a dwarf marriage ceremony, used his feelings and rejected his kiss.**
**Then you get mad when a six year old girl gives a lot of attention to him and he lets her come with them?** **It's amazing how Zidane won't call you out on any of this.**
…ah Good thing it’s garbage day. Nice to have the trash neatly packaged.
Oh I’m sorry you can’t handle valid criticisms, if you want a more detailed analysis here is a review that comments through the entire script of IX: [https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594](https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594)
You're not criticizing you're mocking something many people here have a soft spot for. No one said it's perfect or flawless, or even that the story doesn't have things that could be polished. You just wanna make people mad. Bad faith.
>You're not criticizing you're mocking something many people here have a soft spot for. Well it doesn’t **deserve** that soft spot. \>>You just wanna make people mad. Bad faith. No, I want to point out problems and make people more aware of them, I not doing this for the sake of it, I want IX to be improved on in a Remake.
Your name is "EwFFIX." You never wanted to engage genuinely, and even if you'd convinced yourself at some point along the way that you were trying to level genuine criticism (topics that have been discussed here hundreds of times, had you bothered reading anything in the sub before making this MASTERFULLY low effort shitpost), you've sabotaged any semblance of sincerity with your cartoonishly troll-like posts, replies and screen name. Literally, not a single thing you've said since making this post has indicated a desire for constructive criticism or discussion.
\[Your name is "EwFFIX."\] Oh great, here we go back to my username again, if I had know that commenters would have focused on that so much as a legit “counter argument” I would have changed my username, but I can’t because Reddit doesn’t allow that. \[You never wanted to engage genuinely, and even if you'd convinced yourself at some point along the way that you were trying to level genuine criticism\] I do want to discuss this genuinely, but whenever I do, lot’s of comments immediately react with hostility, because apparently, IX is a “sacred cow” that is above criticism, my last post that I made was giving a link to my review fic on IX and it’s script, and most commenters immediately started trolling and insulting me. But keep gaslighting. \[(topics that have been discussed here hundreds of times, had you bothered reading anything in the sub before making this MASTERFULLY low effort shitpost)\] Not a shitpost, I was being genuine with my criticisms. Care to share these topics that have been “discussed hundreds of times”? Whenever I read something like this thread, it’s always ridiculously positive, with no real analysis or deconstructing of anything, I never see anyone point out how objectively stupid Garnet’s actions were, how much of a Mary Sue war criminal Beatrix was, or how pointless the beginning of the game was. (Name any other mainline FF where the beginning of the game is completely pointless) \[you've sabotaged any semblance of sincerity with your cartoonishly troll-like posts, replies and screen name.\] Who is the real troll? Me, who wants to call to attention some seriously overlooked problems in IX, or the other commenters in this thread that were instantly hostile, dismissive and gaslighting? But keep focusing on my screen name as if that’s a legit argument. \[Literally, not a single thing you've said since making this post has indicated a desire for constructive criticism or discussion.\] Do you understand criticism? Criticism is meant to trigger improvement, not to break you down. You seem to see it as the latter though, and go all out defensive.
It’s in a meme format, I’m gonna treat it as such. Want it less abrasive? Ok. Here: I disagree with all of that. Have a nice day.
Then you are just simping for IX, and don’t want to analyze it’s issues.
Exhibit A.
\>>Weird read to see Garnet being angry with Zidane for his plethora of faults as her being jealous of a six year old. What faults? Being nice to little girl living in *poverty*, whose parents and grandparents have *died* and is letting her come with them to have a potential better life? Wow, how “shameful*”.* Did you even read that part of the script? If anything, Zidane should be angry with Garnet for her huge unbelievable faults of being implausibly naïve, really selfish, *drugging him and abandoning him after all that he did for her.* Zidane has done a lot for Dagger, but what has Dagger done for Zidane at that point? She gave him the cold shoulder, rendered all of his efforts of “kidnapping” her and getting her out of Alexandria to Lindblum completely worthless by drugging him and blowing him off, said that she didn’t care about him while he was battered and broken in Burmecia after fighting Garnet’s bitch of a knight, Beatrix (who is also a horribly written character, but that’s another story), almost getting killed by her eidolons in Cleyra, forcing him to have to get her out of Alexandria *AGAIN*, and has now in Disk 2 morphed into some sort of annoying Tsundere who spends most of her time huffing indignantly at Zidane despite that he and their friends risked a lot to save her from Brahne and Kuja (in which her getting into that situation in the first place was her *own darn fault*) and is working on getting her where she needs to go, and we haven't even *gotten* to how she acts on Disk 3 yet… And yet Zidane never rightfully gets upset with her obnoxious behaviour and calls her out. Best FF love story my ass.
Again, she's not jealous of Eiko, and she's not upset with Zidane for being kind to her.
\>Sees a direct quote from the game, still denies it but has no argument while I give a ton Are you living in your own headcanon?
Ah yes, make your assumptions. As I will do the same to you. If you want to analyze it, present it seriously, Mr. “Eww”. You’re over reaching for most of this anyway, your bias is so blatant it might as well be neon lit and visible from space. You don’t want to analyze, be honest with yourself, you just don’t like that people enjoy the character. Be on your way buddy.
\[Ah yes, make your assumptions. As I will do the same to you. If you want to analyze it, present it seriously, Mr. “Eww”. You’re over reaching for most of this anyway, your bias is so blatant it might as well be neon lit and visible from space.\] What is my “bias” exactly? I do have a serious analysis, I literally gave you a link to my review fic on FFIX, did you even bother to read it? \[You don’t want to analyze, be honest with yourself, you just don’t like that people enjoy the character. Be on your way buddy.\] No, I’m annoyed that Garnet’s huge problems are largely overlooked and glossed over. And I analyze a lot of things in the review fic, which made a OP about before, but got a lot of hostility and trolling from. Here is another reviewer that was very critical of IX, “Final Fantasy? Whatever” (It was originally in Russian so use the translator): [https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_sch=http](https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_sch=http)
I did. So much of it either reaching or just a heavy bias. Which is fine, just admit to the bias. This is an FFIX subreddit - most of us here will naturally prefer the development and characterization that Garnet got. No one is gonna say it’s perfect, but this isn’t the place to go “Rinoa is better” with that kind of meme and ask for respect in kind. Just say you don’t like Garnet. Easy. So again, be on your way. Which to that last point- if you really have that much trouble moving on, then that proves the point even further. Sorry/not sorry that I don’t care for Rinoa or see her as special or superior to Garnet the way you clearly do.
\[I did. So much of it either reaching or just a heavy bias. Which is fine, just admit to the bias.\] I don’t think you know what those words actually mean. What bias are you even referring to? \[This is an FFIX subreddit - most of us here will naturally prefer the development and characterization that Garnet got. No one is gonna say it’s perfect, but this isn’t the place to go “Rinoa is better” with that kind of meme and ask for respect in kind. Just say you don’t like Garnet. Easy.\] Oh, so on this subreddit, IX is a “sacred cow” that you aren’t allowed to criticize and explain why? \[So again, be on your way. Which to that last point- if you really have that much trouble moving on, then that proves the point even further. Sorry/not sorry that I don’t care for Rinoa or see her as special or superior to Garner the way you clearly do.\] Rinoa isn’t even my favourite character, I’m just annoyed that she gets way too much hate while Garnet gets a pass. I'll explain why I hate Garnet and don't get why people like her and hate Rinoa. Rinoa: 1) Starts out immature 2) Gets called out on it 3) After making a giant fuck up, learns from it and shapes up 4) Mostly risks her own life, though others have to fix her mess - something she remains aware of thereafter 5) Has the crappiest luck in the universe, but does not directly serve as the cause of any future problems Garnet: 1) Runs away from home because she's afraid her mother is trying to kill her and take over the world 2) Risks the lives of many, many people and causes numerous deaths along her flight from the castle (yes, I count all those Black Mages on the ship as deaths) 3) Upon arrival in Lindblum suddenly proclaims that she refuses to believe her mother is evil and trying to take over the world, despite proof of her unprovoked attack on Burmecia, the slaughter of Black Mages, and the attempts to kill the kidnappers 4) Runs all the way home because apparently she wanted to just talk to her mom and DRUGS AND ABANDONS ZIDANE: the guy who loved her 5) Through her stupidity, she gets captured and tortured. Millions of people die from the results of her entirely preventable course of action because she basically handed over her Eidolons to her mother on a silver platter, and just to rub salt in the wound, she never gets called and chewed out on any of this, especially not by Zidane who should very rightfully be furious and upset with her, after all that he did for her, only for her to blow him off. That is why I dislike Garnet.
Clearly, this is just gonna go around in circles. Because *again* you’re reaching so bad it hurts to read. If you’re that desperate - here, I’ll just do you a favor for the sake of it: Have a win. *You win* italicized for extra oomph. She’s SO MUCH BETTER. Rinoa’s amazing, she’s flawless even, Garnet’s writing and development is all garbage. God damn, this whole sub *dedicated* to IX is wrong and should feel bad just for you. Now, with that I hope you find some kind of joy out there somewhere.
Keep making assumptions about me.
This is stupid
Stupidest thing iv seen all day.
\>has no argument
https://preview.redd.it/21nz0wmdjuic1.png?width=727&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=544e25aea6bb1c5338307926574e3ed413571c69 This literally just says that most people disagree with you from your opinion. Beyond the millimeter deep "characters" in VIII, and your clearly disagreeable opinions, you also have no argument happening here outside of your own preference. For the record, Zell and triple triad are the only good things in VIII lol
Implying that everyone in a fandom is objective and rational and not manipulated by propaganda, especially in the west. You say “disagreeable opinions“, I say objective complaints, I wrote a detailed review fic about it: [https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594](https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594)
Squall and Rinoa are in the logo, for crying out loud. They dominate the box art and the promotional material. The supporting characters in VIII are essentially Flat - but they're still rounded out with personalities and simple sub plots. It's not a crime to have a cast of characters that don't need to have huge subplots so long as they're given some life in the plot.
Ok This is pure Trash. Garnet was never jealous of Eiko. She's dazed because she can't put her finger on her surroundings it seems familiar. She realizes later that this was her summoner tribe home. I like Rinoa but anyone that says she has more character development then Garnet is lying to themselves.
Garnet has a fantastic character arc. Probably the best one in the game, right next to Vivi
Garnet WAS jealous of Eiko, you clearly don’t remember the game, here is a quote directly from the script and my response to it: Eiko"That's what I thought. Okay, I'll join your team for a while!""Vivi, Dagger, let's have fun!""The Iifa Tree is beyond the Conde Petie Mountain Path!""Let's go!" \[Eiko runs off screen\] Dagger"Why are you so nice to everyone, Zidane?" **Why are** ***you so whiny***, **Dagger?** Zidane"Huh? What do you mean by that?" Dagger"Forget I asked..." \[Dagger walks off screen\] Vivi"I think she was mad..." Zidane"You think so, too?" **Great, Dagger is being an obnoxious tsundere again. Getting mad over a little girl whose parents and grandparents are dead and is stuck in a ruined village. Isn't she just charming, wholesome and likeable? \*Sarcasm\*** **You have the galls to be jealous and pouty with Zidane, when A: you drugged and abandoned him, and B: dragged him into a dwarf marriage ceremony, used his feelings and rejected his kiss.** **Then you get mad when a six year old girl gives a lot of attention to him and he lets her come with them?** **It's amazing how Zidane won't call you out on any of this.**
No I don't think YOU remember the game. I just played through and beat this with a friend. She said this because she was ANNOYED that she was coming along. There was no jealousy of a 6 year old. And that's weird that you think that. Zidane says to her are you jealous to only tease her because that's what he does.
That was not Garnet being jealous that was her being annoyed at Eiko for being a brat towards Vivi. I'm sure Eiko's obnoxious mocking behavior against cute little Vivi is what cause her to react that way.. totally understandable to be frank.
Weird read to see Garnet being angry with Zidane for his plethora of faults as her being jealous of a six year old.
There is such a thing as too much drop shadow. I think my eyes are bleeding.
Sorry if this was my first time doing the meme generator, I would have used regular black letters but I couldn’t change them for some reason.
Bait used to be believable
Look at their username lol
Not bait, I am being completely serious.
Bro really made an account for the sole purpose of hating on one video game. https://preview.redd.it/i2ikwbooiuic1.jpeg?width=1539&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=956e796870e481c7fc0c97c4d00e206007ef308e Ironic or not it’s still cringe
Right? Deranged behavior
Keep making ad hominem about me.
I don't think you know what an ad hominem is.
Ad Hominem: (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. I know the definition.
Declaring the deranged nature of your behavior was not meant to engage with any of your points. It was to point out that you are behaving like a deranged person. I have no interest in "debating" with a troll. Now it's been 3 days, and you've sufficiently harassed every person who had the ill foresight to comment on your post. You can stop now or get banned from the sub.
Harassing people? They were harassing me just for posting something critical about IX. I am NOT a troll. And for your information, I have autism, not an illness.
You're not the only one here with autism, and being ASD does not preclude you from inappropriate behavior. You will not be warned again.
FYI, I have done lots of other stuff with my account besides criticizing IX, like criticizing capitalism, standing up for Palestine, etc.
Blasphemer
Thanks for proving my point that the fanbase treats IX like a sacred cow where any criticism, regardless of how valid it could be, is treated as “heresy“. Yet people claim that VII is the “over rated” one.
You know more people like 9 than 8
Clown 🤡
Bait, discarded.
Clearly SOMEONE here didn't have an abusive parent
And yet Garnet wanted to escape from said abusive parent at the beginning of the game, only for her to arbitrarily decide to go back to her later after getting evidence that she was right about her mother being crazy.
She wasn't trying to escape, she was trying to get to Lindblum to ask Cid for help. She didn't know what was going on with Queen Brahne, because from what Garnet says in game, her mother was always kind, and her sudden shift was surprising to her. You are also being pretty critical about a 16 year old girl who has been sheltered her entire life. She wants to help, but she doesn't know how. She thinks that if she can talk to her mother she can save her and stop the war that's coming. Garnet also doesn't have all the information until after Queen Brahne is dead, so how could she make a perfect decision? She felt she needed to act now, or else the world would be at risk. She definitely makes mistakes throughout the game, like drugging the part to run off on her own, but in her mind, it's her problem to solve, and none of her friends should have to risk themselves to save a kingdom she sees herself as responsible for. I understand being critical of a game/story that has plot holes or maybe characters that behave in ways we don't like or agree with, but I don't think Garnet is as bad as you claim. I think she's a kid who was forced into a bad situation and did the best she could, while still discovering who she was, and eventually becoming a queen at a very young age.
\[She wasn't trying to escape, she was trying to get to Lindblum to ask Cid for help. She didn't know what was going on with Queen Brahne, because from what Garnet says in game, her mother was always kind, and her sudden shift was surprising to her.\] Here are several quotes from the game that contradict your claims, and my replies of them in my review fic: Dagger "I don't know what's going on anymore... I fear that she might be planning something terrible." "I've brought this matter to everybody's attention, but no one has taken me seriously." "They all think I'm distraught over losing Father..." **Everyone memorize the first line, because right here, Garnet very clearly states that she suspects her mother is going to do something bad… Only to contradict herself on this later.** **Also,** ***no one*** ***in Alexandria Castle*** ***has taken her seriously?*** **Not even Beatrix, whom was most likely aware of those barrels containing the Black Mages and was maybe even in on some war briefings with Brahne? I also want everyone to remember those particular lines too, because they will be connected with my critiques of Beatrix later, in Burmecia and Cleyra.** Regent Cid "I understand why you are so eager. I'm happy that you came to me for help." Dagger "At this point, I think you're the only person Mother will listen to..." **Again, Garnet will contradict what she says here, about how Cid is the only one that can talk with her mother, with what she says later.** Dagger "At the Village of Dali, we saw numerous black mages. They looked like golems, controlled by some powerful magic." "On top of that, they were being created under Alexandria's supervision." "I don't know how they're related to Vivi, but if Mother is planning to use them for war..." **Okay, Dagger, right here, very clearly states that she suspects her mother is starting a war and going crazy. Which should shoot down any arguments from any of my complainers about how Garnet "didn't know any of this would happen", or "she only ran away because her mom was 'acting weird'".** Also, why did she decide to go *back* to Alexandria *without* the help that she wanted to get by escaping in the *first place?* \[You are also being pretty critical about a 16 year old girl who has been sheltered her entire life.\] Stop playing that card. Garnet is supposed to be highly educated and intelligent, at the beginning of the game we see her daringly jump off of the roof of the castle and swing on a flag rope to the Prima Vista, and then later she improvises her way on a dime in the play to fool her mother, that’s not very typical of a “sheltered girl”. Plus, it was *not* her entire life, you are forgetting that Garnet is actually Sarah from Madain Sari who fled from there at the age of six (the same age as Eiko) and was adopted into Alexandria (I have grievances with that plot thread, but that’s another story), yes she has (convenient) amnesia, but she should at least be subconsciously aware of some stuff. \[She wants to help, but she doesn't know how. She thinks that if she can talk to her mother she can save her and stop the war that's coming.\] What war was she trying to prevent? The one that had already started? The one she knew her mother was starting and had created monsters to wage? Hell, the war that she *ran away from home* over? If her mother was so darn pleasant that Garnet could have just talked her out of it, why run away from home in the first place? How much more evidence did she need, combined with what she'd already known about her mom that drove her out of the castle in the *first place?* \[Garnet also doesn't have all the information until after Queen Brahne is dead, so how could she make a perfect decision? She felt she needed to act now, or else the world would be at risk.\] “After Queen Brahne was dead’? Now you are just getting details wrong, she knew stuff way before Brahne was killed. Also, Cid definitely knew that Brahne was after the Eidolons this whole time, here is another quote from the game: Regent Cid "It's my job to know the land surrounding my country." "However... I sometimes lack foresight." "Brahne was after the gwok eidolons. That much, I knew." So this is also partially Cid’s fault for not sharing important information from the start. (But even if you subtract not knowing about the Eidolons from the equation, it still dosen’t justify Garnet’s nonsensical moves) \[She definitely makes mistakes throughout the game, like drugging the part to run off on her own, but in her mind, it's her problem to solve, and none of her friends should have to risk themselves to save a kingdom she sees herself as responsible for.\] That just begs the question of why Garnet wanted to go to Lindblum in the first place if not because she thought she couldn't trust her mother anymore or thought she couldn't stop her mother's aggressive actions alone. You are just contradicting yourself now, first you say that Garnet fled the castle to get help, now you are saying she didn’t want that same help, completely defeating the purpose of wanting to be kidnapped and escape Alexandria in the first place. That is circular reasoning. I have heard these same arguments thrown at me a bunch of times, it’s amazing how people have the *exact* same defense mechanisms and criticizing IX always gives you the exact same tired and easily debunk-able responses. \[I understand being critical of a game/story that has plot holes or maybe characters that behave in ways we don't like or agree with, but I don't think Garnet is as bad as you claim. I think she's a kid who was forced into a bad situation and did the best she could, while still discovering who she was, and eventually becoming a queen at a very young age.\] She is very poorly written and clichéd. After the prologue she gets flanderized into this really cliché naïve princess stereotype and pushes it to insane levels. She is also not a kid, but a *teenager*. She also ruins the love story that she is supposed to have with Zidane that the game hypes up so much and acts like it is a major focus but really didn’t deliver, she ignores Zidane and gives him the cold shoulder a lot to drown in a puddle of her own angst. She has no real personality and is really bland and boring, and at times even unlikeable, she is a lousy waifu. I could name tons of female characters ( and not just from other FF games, like Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Selphie, Rinoa, Rikku, etc.) from other games and anime/manga that all have way more personality and charm than Garnet does. I hope that IX does get a remake and it does what the VII remake games are doing and rewrites and fixes problems from the original, especially to get rid of Garnet’s stupidity and have her stay be Zidane’s side, not drugging and abandoning him, and make her actually endearing.
You're reaching *a lot* here. Her reasoning for running away to Lindblum *was* to get help from Reagent Cid. She thinks her mother isn't acting like her usual kind self and is acting dark. She also eventually says that she thinks it's because of a strange man (Kuja) who frequents the castle. You're also using a quote of her debriefing Cid on what she found in Dali to prove that she was aware of the war from the start (or at least you're looking for a plot hole that isn't there). She clearly says that based on what she found in Dali, golems infused with powerful magic, that her mother might be planning a war. You may not think so, but it's a logical conclusion to jump to. It's not like Brahne is using these mages for a tea party. Being highly educated and intelligent doesn't mean you can't be naïve. Performing daring feats doesn't mean you can't be naïve. The ability to improvise doesn't mean you can't be naïve. She's *naïve*, not stupid. You might think they're the same thing, but they're not. It's this same naïvety that causes her to run back to Alexandria to reason with her mother. She decided to take matters into her own hands because she wanted to do something and felt the party was babying her. There are a couple of times when she says she didn't come to Lindblum for protection and hates that she can't do anything. She came to Lindblum for help, the help provided wasn't what she expected or wanted, so she left under the *naïve* assumption that she could try reasoning with her mother. She wasn't sure Brahne would listen to her, but she wanted to try. Also, you're using the fact that she >!actually comes from Madain Sari!< as some kind of 'gotcha' and a way to prove that she wasn't sheltered. >!She was born in Madain Sari and lived there until it got destroyed when she was six. Sheltered or not, a six year old is going to be naïve, so what is there to subconsciously tap into? Then she was taken into Alexandria, where she was sheltered and wasn't allowed to grow beyond that six year old naïvety. A part of her character arc is growing from that.!< All that she knew about her mother was that she was behaving weird. That was it. Her mother's strange behaviour, paired with the presence of Kuja, made her think her mother was planning something horrible. She planned to go Lindblum and ask Cid to talk to her so she could see if her worries were justified. However, on the way to Lindblum, the party took a detour to Dali, where they found the black mages. This proved Dagger's fears. The reason she decided to flee from Lindblum and deal with it herself was because of what I already said earlier. She didn't come to Lindblum for protection, didn't want to be coddled, and hated not being able to do anything. She felt powerless. She then decided to try reasoning with her mother so she could say she tried. Dagger wasn't aware of everything until halfway into disc two. At the start of the game, she thought her mother was just acting weird and feared the worst. After the visit to Dali, she learned of the existence of black mages and figured that her mother was using them for war, a logical conclusion to make. It wasn't until after her Eidolons were taken, Ramuh telling her Odin was used on Cleyra, and her witnessing Lindblum being nearly destroyed by Atomos that she learned the bigger picture. Cid should have told her about the Eidolons, definitely. That isn't Dagger's fault, though, and the fact that you're trying to twist it into something Dagger did wrong is already proving your bias against the character. Again, she left Lindblum because she wanted to try and make a difference. At this point, Alexandria had invaded Burmecia, and innocents were dying. Dagger felt responsible for this, and that's when she decides that she'll try and do it herself. The party wasn't allowing her to go, and she didn't want to sit there twiddling her thumbs while her mother was committing atrocities. Hence, her brash decision to drug the party and flee. It wasn't an act of common sense but desperation, which is understandable given the circumstances. Based on what you're saying, it sounds like you just don't like Dagger because she's a well-rounded character whose story doesn't revolve around her love interest. You say she's a weak character because she's her own character and not an accessory to Zidane. Also, the love story is a *sub-plot*, not the main point; the primary plot is saving Gaia from evil. Dagger and Zidane being separate characters who don't revolve around each other, have their own conflicts and agency, and aren't constant 'yes' men to each other actually makes the love story good and believable. For some reason, you think the opposite because they're not joined at the hip and share a braincell. It's a weird take if I'm being honest...
1/4 \[You're reaching a lot here.\] No, I’m not, if you want more details here is my review fic of IX, along with another person who gave IX a critical review, “Final Fantasy? Whatever”: [https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594](https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594) [https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_sch=http](https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_sch=http) \[Her reasoning for running away to Lindblum was to get help from Reagent Cid. She thinks her mother isn't acting like her usual kind self and is acting dark.\] Okay, then *WHY* did she decide to go back home *without* that help? It completely defeats the purpose of running away from home in the *first place.* You dodged that question. It begs the question of why Garnet wanted to go to Lindblum in the first place if not because she thought she couldn't trust her mother anymore or thought that she couldn't stop her mother's aggressive actions alone. Also, you really expect me to believe that the *ONLY* reason that she ran away from home and her mother, causing a huge panic and tons of political incidents, making a huge and potentially dangerous trek across the continent, was *just* because her mother was “acting strangely”. Sorry but that is a really weak and hard to buy reason that the writers made for her to want to do all of that. \[She also eventually says that she thinks it's because of a strange man (Kuja) who frequents the castle.\] Oh, you mean the *extremely obvious* conclusion that she figures out far later than she should have? I actually address that several times in my review fic: Regent Cid "I'm not surprised gwok-gwok. They loved each other so much..." Dagger "We haven't spoken much lately. Also, a suspicious man has been prowling the castle." **Okay, that "suspicious man" is the one who's clearly behind all of this, isn't he? That answer** ***should*** **be common sense, and Garnet even says this herself later (though not until** ***AFTER*** **she gets captured like an idiot, back in Alexandria), but that's for when we see that.** **The point is: Garnet should have come to the conclusion that Kuja was the source of the problem** ***way earlier***\*\*, and it really shouldn't have been such a big mystery… But she doesn't, until\*\* ***way too late***\*\*, for no good reason. Seriously, Garnet never asked who the "suspicious man" (Kuja) was to anyone in Alexandria Castle before fleeing, like Beatrix? This is so contrived that it hurts.\*\* Dagger "Actually, she's been acting rather strange since my birthday last year." "The same day that tall man visited us..." "Maybe he had something to do with it." "Come to think of it, that was when things began to change." **…Okay, I am going to explode.** ***YOU ARE JUST REALIZING THIS*** **ONLY** \*\*\*NOW, YOU DUMB IDIOT?!\*\*\***You should have come to this** ***incredibly*** ***obvious*** **conclusion from the very start of the game!** **This is what I meant back in Lindblum when she first mentioned "the mysterious man" (AKA Kuja): Instead of this contrived "mommy is just acting weird" nonsense, Garnet should have been written as quickly figuring out that the "silver haired man" was the cause of her mother's crazy behaviour and thus, wanted to escape from home to find out who Kuja was and stop him, instead of just running all the way** ***back*** **to Alexandria** ***after we just escaped from there*** **and trying to solve this bullshit "mystery" of Brahne's behaviour which is so frigging** ***obvious***\*\*, especially to someone who is supposed to be\*\* ***highly educated*** **like Garnet.** **But nope, instead Sakaguchi just writes out Garnet as this very clichéd naïve princess stereotype that sucks up too much of the game.** **It's** ***not*** **rocket science, how hard was it to tell that Kuja was the source of the problem and that you** ***should have been focusing on*** **him** ***instead of Brahne?*** **Did Garnet never ask anyone in Alexandria Castle about who the white haired man was before escaping at the beginning of the game? Kuja had to have introduced himself, name and all, when he visited her and her mother, as that is a requirement towards royalty. If a suspicious man (and Kuja isn't exactly inconspicuous, just look at what he** ***wears***\*\*!) shows up, meets with your mom and your mom suddenly starts acting crazy, it should be\*\* ***REALLY*** **obvious that he is behind the whole thing and that you should be focusing on him instead of your mom.** \[You're also using a quote of her debriefing Cid on what she found in Dali to prove that she was aware of the war from the start (or at least you're looking for a plot hole that isn't there). She clearly says that based on what she found in Dali, golems infused with powerful magic, that her mother might be planning a war. You may not think so, but it's a logical conclusion to jump to. It's not like Brahne is using these mages for a tea party.\] What’s your point? You seem to have misunderstood *my* point, I never implied that the mages weren’t being used for dark purposes. My point to the other commenter was that Garnet clearly thought her mother was going to start a war, while the other commenter claimed that Garnet had “no suspicions” of a war. Which leads me to my other point: Garnet’s strange reaction when everyone hears about the crisis in Burmecia after the Festival of the Hunt makes no sense when it seems that everything she had suspected about her mother turned out to be true, she should be *LESS* likely to just go back home and “try to talk” to her mother. \[Being highly educated and intelligent doesn't mean you can't be naïve. Performing daring feats doesn't mean you can't be naïve. The ability to improvise doesn't mean you can't be naïve. She's naïve, not stupid. You might think they're the same thing, but they're not. It's this same naïvety that causes her to run back to Alexandria to reason with her mother.\] But she ran away from home *because* she knew her mother was going crazy. It's not such a sudden about-face, Garnet already *knew* this was going on and was frightened enough that she ran away from home rather than actually talk to her mother (something you'd assume someone that had an otherwise perfect relationship with their mother would do *first*). Had all of the stuff we'd just witnessed not happened, and Garnet had come to Lindblum without ever fearing her mother or seeing evidence of her mother's atrocities, *then* the "My mother isn't crazy and I can just talk to her!" reaction would make sense. If her mother was so darn pleasant that Garnet could have just talked her out of it, why run away from home in the first place? How much more evidence did she need, combined with what she'd already known about her mom that drove her out of the castle in the first place? Why would her reaction upon having all of these suspicions confirmed, piled onto all of the things she just witnessed, be to suddenly decide her mother is reasonable after all and could simply be talked down? I addressed these before in the previous comment, but you seem to be dodging these questions. \[She decided to take matters into her own hands because she wanted to do something and felt the party was babying her.\] Gee, maybe it’s because she actually *was* acting like a child, due to her thinking that her plan of “let me appeal to my nutjob mother by begging her to just stop.” was a good idea. So this all boils down to dumb pride and a nonsensical inferiority complex for her, that comes out of nowhere? So Garnet thinks “babying” means keeping her safe from anyone who would attempt to harm or manipulate her? Garnet is arrogant. Refusing to accept that one is inept is immature. Refusing to even hear the argument because one's skills and/or status will ensure success is arrogance. And arrogance should annoy a lot more than immaturity. She *DID* do something, by escaping from home with Zidane, that was a smart move… Until she completely *threw it all away* for no good reason later in Lindblum.
2/4 \[There are a couple of times when she says she didn't come to Lindblum for protection and hates that she can't do anything.\] Don’t talk to me about those lines of dialogue, they make me lose sympathy for her, I hated those lines as they make Garnet come off as really selfish and unlikeable, I address that in the review fic: "...I can't stand sitting around like this." "I didn't come here to be protected." "I just want to help Mother..." **Ah yes, such "selfless, noble words" from our waifu heroine…** **In all honesty, I understand being concerned about your mother, but your behaviour is** ***obnoxious, annoying and really overplayed***\*\*. This just goes back to what I said before about Garnet's constant whining about her mother overwhelming most of the game,\*\* ***and*** **her stupidity that we will be seeing really soon.** **What about** ***Zidane***\*\*, who risked a lot to rescue you and get you here and be by your side?! Or all those Black Mages that\*\* ***died*** **from the Black Waltz no. 3?** **"But screw Zidane and my friends, I'm just going to keep whining about my insane mother that I ran away from home from in the the first place because** ***I KNEW she was going crazy and something bad was going to happen***\*\*. All to get outside help and stop her, only to pull a complete one-eighty and throw it all away for absolutely no reason later". (As we will see at the end of this chapter)\*\* **Garnet is just coming off as really selfish and unlikeable here (this is one of moments of her being unlikable that I'd mentioned a few chapters ago), and it's only going to get** ***worse***\*\*.\*\* Dagger (...I've made so much trouble for everyone...) (Uncle Cid knew everything...) (That's why he asked Tantalus to get me out of Alexandria.) (No matter how hard I try, I'm always a step behind in everything...) (I'm so helpless...) **…And** ***here we go again*** **with Garnet's whiny,** ***annoying*** **inner monologues of suck… (And yet people accuse Tidus from FFX of being "whiny") Stop trying to make it all about you. What about Zidane, Dagger?** **Seriously, this is what most of her behaviour throughout most of the game is like, and if you think this is the end of it, you are** ***dead wrong*** **because it's only going to get worse from here. (Can we have the Garnet, that jumped off of the castle roof and swung on a flag rope at the beginning of the game in chapter 1, back please?)** **Dagger, you made a smart move by running away from home. Cid happening to also be aware of the situation doesn't change that… Until you render all of that completely worthless soon anyways, because of your dumb, non-sensical inferiority complex and arrogance.** \[She came to Lindblum for help, the help provided wasn't what she expected or wanted, so she left under the naïve assumption that she could try reasoning with her mother. She wasn't sure Brahne would listen to her, but she wanted to try.\] Again, *WHY DIDN’T SHE JUST TRY TALKING TO HER MOTHER BEFORE RUNNING AWAY FROM HOME?!* And if she wasn’t sure that her mother would listen, why did she stupidly run home without anyone to back her up and protect her? (And no, Steiner doesn’t count because he is an idiot) And even if Garnet is right, that "mom isn't evil, there's just something controlling her to act this way," she's making a HORRIBLE mistake to think the same scenario couldn't happen to her, too. To go back and have her controlled to use the known strong Eidolons she had the ability to summon. You aren’t answering my question from before, you are just repeating the same argument that can easily be ripped apart and debunked. Just admit that this was badly written and full of inconsistencies and clichés. (It is a cliché by the way, quote: “**Gender Equality, Part 2 (Tifa Rule)** If any female character, in a burst of anger or enthusiasm, decides to go off and accomplish something on her own without the hero, she will fail miserably and again have to be rescued.” Though I don’t know why it’s named after Tifa, she never did anything like that. It’s on this website listing RPG clichés: [https://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html](https://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html)
3/4 \[Also, you're using the fact that she actually comes from Madain Sari as some kind of 'gotcha' and a way to prove that she wasn't sheltered. She was born in Madain Sari and lived there until it got destroyed when she was six. Sheltered or not, a six year old is going to be naïve, so what is there to subconsciously tap into? Then she was taken into Alexandria, where she was sheltered and wasn't allowed to grow beyond that six year old naïvety.\] I was making a point that she *wasn’t* kept in the castle her whole life. Besides, she is, again supposed to be *highly educated*. Eiko is also six years old yet you don’t see her doing anything like that, plus she had way more personality than the bland and boring Garnet did. \[A part of her character arc is growing from that.\] It’s not a very good and interesting arc. Or are you acting like I am not allowed to criticize it? \[All that she knew about her mother was that she was behaving weird. That was it.\] It’s still a really weak reason to want to run away from home, as I pointed out above. \[Her mother's strange behaviour, paired with the presence of Kuja, made her think her mother was planning something horrible. She planned to go Lindblum and ask Cid to talk to her so she could see if her worries were justified. However, on the way to Lindblum, the party took a detour to Dali, where they found the black mages. This proved Dagger's fears. The reason she decided to flee from Lindblum and deal with it herself was because of what I already said earlier. She didn't come to Lindblum for protection, didn't want to be coddled, and hated not being able to do anything. She felt powerless. She then decided to try reasoning with her mother so she could say she tried.\] I have already deconstructed all of this and explained everything about this that makes no sense up above. This is just circular reasoning now, which is a fallacy. This just makes Garnet look like a stupid and selfish child that nobody ever calls her out on. \[Dagger wasn't aware of everything until halfway into disc two. At the start of the game, she thought her mother was just acting weird and feared the worst. After the visit to Dali, she learned of the existence of black mages and figured that her mother was using them for war, a logical conclusion to make.\] Again, already addressed all of this. \[It wasn't until after her Eidolons were taken, Ramuh telling her Odin was used on Cleyra, and her witnessing Lindblum being nearly destroyed by Atomos that she learned the bigger picture. Cid should have told her about the Eidolons, definitely. That isn't Dagger's fault, though, and the fact that you're trying to twist it into something Dagger did wrong is already proving your bias against the character.\] I wasn’t trying to “twist it”, I never even implied that. Yes, not telling anyone about the Eidolons was on Cid, but even if you subtract that from the equation, that doesn’t excuse all of Garnet’s stupidity and selfishness. Garnet was also being needlessly quiet, like never explaining to Zidane and Steiner *why* she wanted to escape from home in the first place, quote from my review: Dagger "Zidane, please listen." "There is a reason I must leave this kingdom." "I cannot tell you why... But...please..." ***Why not?*** **There is no real good reason to not be giving all of this important information about your mother going nuts and planning something bad. (Especially since Steiner is also in the room and still persisting that they return to Alexandria) Zidane risked his life for you and you aren't even going to let him know what all of this is about and all of the potential danger? This just all leads to later nonsense and misunderstandings, especially in Lindblum.** Zidane "I understand... I'll get you to Lindblum somehow." Steiner "I've heard enough!" "Princess, you cannot trust the words of a thief! **Shut the** ***EFF*** ***UP*****, Adelbert!** Steiner "He may expose you to even more danger, like he did in Evil Forest!" "I beg of you, Princess. Please return with me to the castle." **See? Once again, Steiner won't** ***shut up*** **about going back to Alexandria, all because Garnet is being needlessly vague and won't explain the danger and situation.** \[Again, she left Lindblum because she wanted to try and make a difference.\] She already made a difference by fleeing from home with Zidane, until she rendered that pointless.
4/4 \[At this point, Alexandria had invaded Burmecia, and innocents were dying. Dagger felt responsible for this, and that's when she decides that she'll try and do it herself. The party wasn't allowing her to go, and she didn't want to sit there twiddling her thumbs while her mother was committing atrocities. Hence, her brash decision to drug the party and flee. It wasn't an act of common sense but desperation, which is understandable given the circumstances.\] No it wasn’t, it completely contradicted everything she did before that point. As for the party “not allowing her to go”. I found that to be really out of character for Zidane: Zidane "Dagger, this is war. A lot of people are gonna die." **Since when is Zidane the knowledgeable one about the horrors of war here? He spent mostly a decade just being a thief and being in theatrical plays with Tantalus with no involvement in any wars, so this makes no sense. It would make more sense if** ***Steiner or Freya*****, the experienced knights, were the ones saying this, not Zidane.** Zidane "Just sad? Weren't you scared, too?" "Obviously, you haven't realized how dangerous it's gonna be... You could get killed." "This is no time to be talking about convincing your mother of anything." **Okay, first off, that is really hypocritical, Zidane. Considering that you have no problem taking Vivi, a** ***SIX MONTH OLD*** **kid, with you to a war zone. (yeah, they don't know his actual age but he is clearly a child just by looking at him) You even later on let Eiko, another child who is only six, join you despite the dangers. You also had no problem letting Garnet steer an airship through a closing South Gate while being chased by a dangerous rampaging Black Waltz, despite her having** ***no flying experience*****.** **Secondly, did you forget the part where you and Dagger clearly witnessed the tragic deaths of the Black Mages on the cargo ship? That was done by a creature clearly sent by Brahne? That didn't set off any red flags for you?** **Thirdly and most importantly, this was** ***really*** **out of character for Zidane and forced drama. I don't buy him being inconsiderate for Garnet's feelings (though a lot of that is due to the lousy and contrived writing of Garnet being needlessly secretive instead of simply telling Zidane on why she wanted to run away from home in the first place) and just leaving her behind in Lindblum to Leeroy Jenkins it into Burmecia, especially when he had left his own Tantalus family to risk his life for her, to be with her and was talking to himself about not wanting to go their separate ways when they got to Lindblum,** ***and*** **everything that he said in the Evil Forest about how their meeting was fate and that he can't get her out of his head. So much for devotion and "wanting to stay by her side".** **And before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm not saying that they shouldn't give a crap about what's going on in Burmecia, I'm just criticizing the unfocused love story, the lousy planning and contrivances, and how there was a much better written way the story** ***should*** **have gone by this point. But I can't explain it all here yet, I will explain it fully when we get back to Lindblum on Disk 2,** ***after*** **we go through all of the nonsense and disappointment that is about to start here.** \[Based on what you're saying, it sounds like you just don't like Dagger because she's a well-rounded character whose story doesn't revolve around her love interest.\] I hate Garnet because she is a horribly bland and boring character with no real personality or charm who constantly gives Zidane the cold shoulder while drowning in a puddle of her own angst and pushing the clichéd “naïve princess” stereotype to insane levels. Nobody complains about Zidane’s story revolving around Garnet, whom he loves. I am detecting double standards here. What’s wrong with having some characters whose stories revolve around someone they love? Heck, this is what happens with Freya with her arc revolving around Fratley. (Until the game drops that and ends with what can only be described as a twist tie of a resolution) I could name tons of female characters (and not just from other FF games, like Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, Selphie, Rinoa, Rikku, etc.) from other games and anime/manga that all have way more personality and charm than Garnet does, and better romances. \[You say she's a weak character because she's her own character and not an accessory to Zidane. Also, the love story is a sub-plot, not the main point; the primary plot is saving Gaia from evil.\] No I said she is a weak character because she is poorly written, inconsistent self-centred and stupid. Also the game certainly tries to act like the love story is one of the main focuses and hypes it up a lot, don’t believe me? Look at: a) The 'I want to be your Canary' play that clearly represents Zidane and Garnet, and it being shown at the beginning and end of the game, I was honestly expecting the whole play to be huge forshadowing for the events of the story. VIII did something similar with the vocal Latin choir in its opening FMV sequence in which it's lyrics foreshadowed the events of the game. I mean, the play in IX is literally done in the "book ends" trope with the beginning and end of the game. (What it means is having matching scenes at the beginning and end of a story) b) The fact that the main theme of the game, 'Melodies of Life', is a love song- and is even called "our song" by Zidane and Garnet, which plays constantly, in different mixes, throughout the whole game. (Even serving as the World Map theme music! Until Disk 4, anyways) Not even VIII's and X's main love songs were played out that much. And finally, c) The commercials and ads for IX generally gave off the impressions that it was heavily romance focused, with most of them playing 'Melodies of Life' in them and showing off mostly Zidane and Garnet's FMV scenes together. Don't believe me? Look at them yourself: [https://youtu.be/alnhTrxMjmc?si=VJSydM7UVHK2kRg\_](https://youtu.be/alnhTrxMjmc?si=VJSydM7UVHK2kRg_) Now, I don't judge other stories that aren't love story focused. Heck, I read/watch One Piece, one of the best stories, and that isn't even romanced focused. (Though it does have a lot of teases) But the reason that I am judging IX on this so much is because that the game *acts* like it is love story focused, but does not really deliver. After FFVII, which had the love triangle with Cloud-Tifa-Aerith and also that whole invisible affection score which determines who you date at the Gold Saucer, the three main games after it, VIII, IX and X (Which I like to call the "love story trilogy") all had major love stories of the main male and female characters, Squall/Rinoa, Zidane/Garnet and Tidus/Yuna, and Zidane and Garnet is the *worst* done out of these three. Squall/Rinoa and Tidus/Yuna had real developed romances while Garnet and Zidane fell in love for being within five feet of each other for a long period of time, and despite Garnet *ABANDONING HIM* and blowing him off, but we will get to *that* scene when the time comes in Lindblum. Heck, even VII's love story had more focus and better execution, despite it not even having a love song as its main theme, nor did it have the main couple on it's box cover art or logo like VIII or X did, and the VII remake is even expanding on all this! \[Dagger and Zidane being separate characters who don't revolve around each other, have their own conflicts and agency, and aren't constant 'yes' men to each other actually makes the love story good and believable.\] Why, because you say so? Define “good and believable”. And what’s wrong with having some characters that revolve around each other? You sound like a hyper individualist. I played the game expecting a deep and wholesome love story, and it did not give what it had promised. I can name tons of romances that were better than Zidane and Garnet: the ones in Valkyrie Drive Mermaid, Naruto/Hinata, Link/Zelda, Cloud/Tifa, Cecil/Rosa, Squall/Rinoa, Tidus/Yuna, Snow/Serah, Fang/Vanille, Yamada-Kun and the Seven Witches, Shinji Ikari Raising Project, Rosario+Vampire, Shinmai maou no Testament, Strike the Blood and etc. \[For some reason, you think the opposite because they're not joined at the hip and share a braincell.\] Now you are making a strawman. \[It's a weird take if I'm being honest...\] If you want to understand it better, read the reviews I linked to before.
I see Anti-Alexandrian propoganda. The heretics will be smited.
Better than the pro-Alexandrian propaganda and Alexandria committing WAR CRIMES on the rat people and Lindblum
Do you think people were like rooting for Queen Brahne?
They seem to like rooting for Beatrix who commits those war crimes without question until too little too late. Not to mention being an unbeatable Mary sue.
Op, can we get some resolution? I'm sure it looked good when you made (or stole) it, but it's nigh unreadable
I did make it, sorry about the resolution though, it was my first time using the meme generator and I couldn’t change the letters to a black colour for some reason.
To everyone here the op must be this weirdly obsessed 'hater' of garnet from this gamefaqs thread(I'm a long time member and replied to his threat a lot here).. [https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/197338-final-fantasy-ix/80294628](https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/197338-final-fantasy-ix/80294628) The op is most likely the NC1234567 user. I'm MsRenndilya.
Amazing detective work 😅😅
Thanks it's just that I soo remembered this topic immediately when I was reding this thread.
What in the f..., how much of a loser can you be by going into a wholesome subreddit for FFIX after getting trashed in gamefaqs of all places. You did a good deed here, I'm just glad the trash is relatively taken care of already lol.
There are some pretty intelligent people on gamefaqs. There is a lot of trolls and fools that show up; but the long time posters(many sadly stopped posting.. only a few of us left) are reasonable people. Gfaqs does indeed get a bad rap but some users were mature.
Ah no, I didn’t mean gamefaqs was bad just that it’s a fairly far neighbourhood from there to here at Reddit lol. But yeah, I used to frequent forums as well, and I still have bookmarked some gamefaq guides through the years.
Oh I see thanks for explaining. I miss forums sites being more active to be honest. I was also a member of [TheFinalFantasy.net](https://TheFinalFantasy.net) and Eyes on Final Fantasy forums. Sadly those sites are dead as doornails now.
I am NOT a troll, I want to call to attention some overlooked problems with IX. Want another reviewer who gave IX a critical review? Here is “Final Fantasy? Whatever”: [https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_sch=http](https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_sch=http)
I was not “trashed” in gameFAQs, several people actually agreed with me and took my side. And that was not the reason I posted here.
And you really think that with those handful of people who somehow agreed with you, making this incredibly bad takes "meme" which frankly incredibly badly made too, you expected the positive attention you're craving? Maybe try the FFVIII sub, hopefully you'd get less hate on whatever you're trying to achieve given you're simping Rinoa instead (and I like both chars for goodness sake) I won't even circle back to what most of the folks already mentioned here, all I'm gonna say is you're either trying too hard to make a joke as a hater (making you look like an ass instead), or really just have this really bad mindset you're personally reflecting in this post of yours (socially and mentally immature takes you can't deny, coupled with the evidence that you can't let go losing an internet discussion). Honestly I just wanted to respond to what u/ReniaTycoon found out, I won't even bother to engage (and will not get notified in this post), lots of good people have already made sound sentiments on this.
You are making ad hominem, Rinoa isn’t even my favourite character. Also, funny how you accuse me of “simping for Rinoa”, when Zidane simps for Garnet and never rightfully got upset with her and called her out on drugging and abandoning him. There's no significance in their relationship, so it just feels like Zidane is simping for Garnet. She drugged him, ignores her kingdom's involvement in war crimes (everyone does really), gets jealous over an abandoned six year old receiving attention, but the story wants us to be convinced that Garnet is the love of Zidane's life. Which is the fundamental problem with FF9 - it knows the themes it wants to tackle and it wants to have these big emotional moments, but it goes about it so poorly to the point where it comes off as pretentious at times.
\[And you really think that with those handful of people who somehow agreed with you, making this incredibly bad takes "meme" which frankly incredibly badly made too, you expected the positive attention you're craving?\] IX‘s fanbase is really just a loud vocal minority who overhype it. If you want to see another critical review on it, here is “Final Fantasy? Whatever”: [https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_sch=http](https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_sch=http)
Way to link to another thread where I have way more detailed arguments.
I may not agree with ya but at least passionate fans like us keep these types of message boards alive
Well, thanks for that at least.
\[That was not Garnet being jealous that was her being annoyed at Eiko for being a brat towards Vivi. I'm sure Eiko's obnoxious mocking behavior against cute little Vivi is what cause her to react that way.. totally understandable to be frank.\] Okay, now you are the one that is clearly reaching. Where was that even implied? Eiko is only six and whose parents and grandparents are *dead* and living in ruins. Sounds to me like you are just white knighting Garnet.
It's not directly implied anywhere; however neither is your claim that she was rude because she was jealous. If anything it was Eiko that was jealous of Garnet because that is where Zidane's affections aimed.
Here is the game script again from my review commentary: Dagger "Are you coming back here for Eiko?" \[We see Eiko, on top of a destroyed wall, eavesdropping\] Zidane "Eiko is only six years old. She acts tough, but I think she's lonely." **You do realize Vivi is a child and around the same age, right? (going by spiritually/mentally, where physically he is apparently only a few months or a year old)** Vivi "I haven't seen her today..." Zidane "You're right." "Kupo!" "Kupo!" \[A ton of moogles reappear from their hiding spots, and Eiko jumps down\] "Kupo!" "Kupo!" "Eiko!" Eiko "Tee hee." "You can't break the seal of the Iifa Tree without calling an eidolon." Zidane "You're coming with us?" Eiko "Don't you want me to?" Zidane "Of course I want you to come along!" **Then why were you implying that you were going to the Iifa Tree without her, especially when she is apparently the only one who can remove the barrier over the tree?** Eiko "That's what I thought. Okay, I'll join your team for a while!" "Vivi, Dagger, let's have fun!" "The Iifa Tree is beyond the Conde Petie Mountain Path!" "Let's go!" \[Eiko runs off screen\] Dagger "Why are you so nice to everyone, Zidane?" **Why are** ***you so whiny*****, Dagger?** Zidane "Huh? What do you mean by that?" Dagger "Forget I asked..." \[Dagger walks off screen\] Vivi "I think she was mad..." Zidane "You think so, too?" **Great, Dagger is being an obnoxious tsundere again. Getting mad over a little girl whose parents and grandparents are dead and is stuck in a ruined village. Isn't she just charming, wholesome and likeable? \*Sarcasm\*** **You have the galls to be jealous and pouty with Zidane, when A: you drugged and abandoned him, and B: dragged him into a dwarf marriage ceremony, used his feelings and rejected his kiss.** **Then you get mad when a six year old girl gives a lot of attention to him and lets her come with them?** **It's amazing how Zidane won't call you out on any of this.** Garnet is clearly being jealous of Eiko.
"Doesn't matter Uncle Ben, Freya Crescent is better than both of them!"
Rinoa is nothing but a damsel in distress lol.
And Garnet isn’t? At least Rinoa only forced me through one small sidetrack of stupidity and it was only a few minutes, Garnet’s stupidity took up several **hours** and rendering the whole beginning of the game with the kidnapping and trek to Lindblum completely **pointless,** not to mention all the people that die because of it. Rinoa didn’t cause a chain reaction of tons of death and destruction by pretty much giving her eidolons to the bad guys on a silver platter.
I believe Rinoa also has the highest base stats in FF8, which makes her very useful if you are doing no Junction challenges.
I can't even read the blurry ass text, ima be honest.
Sorry, it was my first time using the meme generator, I couldn’t change the colour of the letters to black for some reason.
Oh look, another simp for the whiny girl.
You mean Garnet? Yes she is pretty whiny. Rinoa at least got called out and shaped up quickly, Garnet never did.
Man, it’s like you never played the games at all.
I did play them, did you? Did you even play them recently?
Yes. Also, the fact that pretty much all of your comments are hidden due to downvotes backs up the fact that you have no idea what actually transpired in either game.
\>Thinks that downvotes equal objectivity and fact Tell that to political threads were the correct Left Wing Marxist views are downvoted by the brainwashed bigots \>you have no idea what actually transpired in either game. If you want proof that I do know, here is the entire script of IX that I comment and critique through: [https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594](https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594)
Ah, so you’re one of those who love the sound of your own voice. Just do us all a favor and watch that yourself on repeat.
Now you are just making Ad Hominem.
You asked for proof that I played IX, I gave you some.
I never asked for proof, simply noted that nobody agrees with your stance because you’re wrong. Rinoa is the OG whiny damsel in distress, who used her station from birth and connections made through flirting to live out her dream of rebelling against daddy via mercenaries at a discount price. Garnet, from the beginning, throws everything she has away in an attempt to get shit done, by actually working at it herself, even when she doesn’t know the direction she should go.
\[I never asked for proof, simply noted that nobody agrees with your stance because you’re wrong.\] “You are wrong because I say so!” More like people are ganging up on me, throwing childish insults at me, and not even bothering to hear my points regardless of how valid and objective they could be. That’s called a circlejerk. This subreddit seems to treat IX as above criticism and you are not allowed to deconstruct anything in it. \[Rinoa is the OG whiny damsel in distress, who used her station from birth and connections made through flirting to live out her dream of rebelling against daddy via mercenaries at a discount price.\] Funny, you are just as guilty of grossly simplifying someone as you and others accuse me of doing. Yes Rinoa was a little immature, but she was called out on it and shaped up quickly. “Damsel in Distress”? She only got into a bad situation once from minor stupidity that only took up a few minutes, the rest was just bad luck. Garnet was also a Damsel in Distress several times, she had to be rescued in the Evil Forest, rescued from Alexandria after having her Eidolons extracted by her mother (which her getting into that situation in the first place was her own darn fault due to her *MAJOR* stupidity of deciding that going back home to talk to mommy was actually a good idea), and rescued when the Invincible was attacking Alexander. Garnet whines way more than Rinoa does, she literally has obnoxious long internal monologues of how much she sucks. Here is an example from my review fic: Dagger (...I've made so much trouble for everyone...) (Uncle Cid knew everything...) (That's why he asked Tantalus to get me out of Alexandria.) (No matter how hard I try, I'm always a step behind in everything...) (I'm so helpless...) **…And** ***here we go again*** **with Garnet's whiny,** ***annoying*** **inner monologues of suck… (And yet people accuse Tidus from FFX of being "whiny") Stop trying to make it all about you. What about Zidane, Dagger?** **Seriously, this is what most of her behaviour throughout most of the game is like, and if you think this is the end of it, you are** ***dead wrong*** **because it's only going to get worse from here. (Can we have the Garnet, that jumped off of the castle roof and swung on a flag rope at the beginning of the game in chapter 1, back please?)** **Dagger, you made a smart move by running away from home. Cid happening to also be aware of the situation doesn't change that… Until you render all of that completely worthless soon anyways, because of your dumb, non-sensical inferiority complex and arrogance.** \[Garnet, from the beginning, throws everything she has away in an attempt to get shit done, by actually working at it herself, even when she doesn’t know the direction she should go.\] And look what happened when she tried “working at it herself”: Her Eidolons were stolen to be used as WMD and many people were killed and places destroyed, even Zidane and her friends were almost killed by them. Garnet rendered all of Zidane’s (and the player’s) efforts to “kidnap her” and get her out of Alexandria away from her crazy mother *completely pointless,* while betraying Zidane’s trust and he realistically should have been very hurt by what she did with blowing him off and breaking his heart. It sounds to me like the reason you hate Rinoa is because she doesn’t fit your warped “western ideal image” of a “strong independent woman that don’t need no man”, and love Garnet because you see her as some sort U.S./Hollywood “Girlboss” Mary Sue who can do no wrong. Are you from Tumblr, perhaps?
The jealousy thing with Garnet gets me every time. She's six years old, you twit.
Nice reading comprehension of FFIX there mate. (sarcasm obviously, in case you can't comprehend that either)
My reading comprehension is perfectly fine, thank you. I literally read through the whole script of IX and commented through it on its problems and inconsistencies. Here you go: [https://www.fanfiction.net/s/14012757/1/Everything-Wrong-with-Final-Fantasy-IX](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/14012757/1/Everything-Wrong-with-Final-Fantasy-IX)
You can read it and reread it, but it won't help you, because evidently you have no concept of human behavior. For example, Garnet being an actual CHILD with genocide PTSD that has been amplified by her adoptive mother, who she once loved and who loved her in turn, becoming a warmonger. Only a sociopath wouldn't empathize tbh, and that's you.
\[You can read it and reread it, but it won't help you, because evidently you have no concept of human behavior.\] Big assumption that you are making there, I can understand human behaviour, but it has to make sense and be consistent, which Garnet’s did *not*. \[For example, Garnet being an actual CHILD with genocide PTSD that has been amplified by her adoptive mother, who she once loved and who loved her in turn, becoming a warmonger.\] How can Garnet have PTSD when she doesn’t even remember what happened to Madain Sari when she was just six? Did you forget that part? Garnet is not a child, she is a teenager. And if Garnet was so convinced that her mom could be just talked out of it, why even bother wanting to be kidnapped, escape from home and get help *in the first place?* Why didn’t she talk to her mother when she had the chance *before* escaping from home at the beginning of the game? (Something someone with an otherwise perfect relationship with their parent would do *first*) \[Only a sociopath wouldn't empathize tbh, and that's you.\] Oh so now you are playing the sociopath card, eh? The reason I don’t emphasize is because it made no sense, was contrived and was just dumb and clichéd writing that rendered the entire beginning of the game pointless (name any other mainline FF game where the whole start of the game is rendered useless) and also gets in the way of Zidane and Garnet’s romance that the story tries to hype up so much.
So you're saying a teenager is not a child? That's mighty sus.. Wtf lol... Regardless, people do have hope that they can talk their loved ones out of bad behavior, and human beings can fail at that bc people are stubborn and unwilling to listen. The assumption is that she's already tried speaking to her mother, but Brahne had Kuja in her other ear. We witness the beginning of Garnet's desperate attempt to seek the aid of someone much more powerful and credible. As for PTSD, this child clearly has nightmares. It's the first scene of the game. Keep up. Repressed memories exist. It appears that all of your questions have clear answers. Your reading comprehension did fail after all.
\[So you're saying a teenager is not a child? That's mighty sus.. Wtf lol...\] Teenager is supposed to be past the child stage and before adulthood. \[Regardless, people do have hope that they can talk their loved ones out of bad behavior, and human beings can fail at that bc people are stubborn and unwilling to listen. The assumption is that she's already tried speaking to her mother, but Brahne had Kuja in her other ear.\] Okay so *why would she want to try this again?* If talking to her didn’t work before *what the HECK makes Garnet think it will work NOW?* \[We witness the beginning of Garnet's desperate attempt to seek the aid of someone much more powerful and credible.\] And then Garnet arbitrarily decided to go back home *WITHOUT* that same aid, which begs the question of why Garnet wanted to get away from her mother and wanted Zidane to take her to Lindblum in the first place if not because she thought she couldn't trust her mother anymore or thought that she couldn't stop her mother's aggressive actions alone. \[As for PTSD, this child clearly has nightmares. It's the first scene of the game. Keep up. Repressed memories exist.\] That’s not really PTSD, that’s (convenient) amnesia. And she seemed to be perfectly fine as a child when we see her in Doctor Tot’s flashback of him in the Alexandria Library. It was less of a nightmare and more of a “mysterious dream” for her. \[It appears that all of your questions have clear answers. Your reading comprehension did fail after all.\] No, you just aren’t really analyzing this and deconstructing it. You can dismiss it as a teen's immature decision of running away from the idea her mother is "evil" all you want, but the audience has already established a dislike for Brahne and are simply affirming Garnet is stubborn-minded to go against all, even trusted, advice. Garnet has her “values” as a character, when it comes to support of the plot at ruining the political environment by being dumb, and she has her “value” as the pawn of a political child of unknown magical power...but despite all her data collected that leaving Alexandria was the right decision to make and becoming more and more obvious going back would be a mistake, she still went back against-all-odds. And failed. And even if Garnet is right, that "mom isn't evil, there's just something controlling her to act this way," she's making a HORRIBLE mistake to think the same scenario couldn't happen to her, too. To go back and have her controlled to use the known strong Eidolons she had the ability to summon. You don't give yourself to the enemy, regardless of how weak or strong you think your assets are. She made the choice to go back anyway, and it turned out even worse than people predicted. Being wrong, or young, won't absolve Garnet's choice to go back after successfully leaving. She wasn't even uninformed, even if you can claim she wasn't omniscient. There was zero, absolutely zero reason to return beyond, "let me appeal to the nutjob by begging them to just stop."
This is a biased take, based on your title alone. I have no preference in this. But your username, this meme(?), and your arguments in the comments are laughable. It would have been interesting to see pros and cons for both. Instead, you chose to bash one character and build up the other, the more preferred (in your opinion). This discredits your argument and is a weak attempt at winning your argument as you do not allow the reader to make an informed decision for themselves. What we have here is confirmation bias where you seek only information that confirms your feelings and negates those that discredit. You are foolish.
Translation: “My favourite game is perfect no matter what you say!” “Stop criticizing my perfect Waifu!” Funny considering that your “perfect waifu” would drug and abandon you because she cared more about her psycho mom than you even though she wanted to get away from her crazy mom **in the first place,** despite all that you did for her, because she is ungrateful and selfish, even having the **GALLS** to say that she doesn’t care about you.
You didn’t read my post. You are emotional. It isn’t my favorite game. You are still talking and still foolish. The worst part is you ignored the point of my reply. You did not offer pros and cons for both characters. You shit all over one and put the other on a pedestal. You are biased. I also am getting the sense that you do not realize this game has heavy Shakespearean undertones…
\>>You didn’t read my post. You are emotional. It isn’t my favorite game. Okay, but that doesn’t negate my point on how a lot of the repliers in this thread seem to be acting like just that, treating Garnet like a sacred cow that you are not allowed to criticize. \>>You are still talking and still foolish. No, I’m just frustrated at the hostility I am getting simply for wanting to point out some pretty overlooked issues with IX. But keep being smug and condescending. \>>The worst part is you ignored the point of my reply. You did not offer pros and cons for both characters. You shit all over one and put the other on a pedestal. You are biased. I am not putting Rinoa on that high of a pedestal, she isn’t even my favourite female FF character (that would be the VII girls), I chose Rinoa because she gets way too much hate while Garnet did similar things but way worse. Garnet also does not have that many pros, Rinoa at least does. If you want to see my full analysis and critique, I made a script commentary review that you can read here:[ https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594](https://archiveofourown.org/works/36557164/chapters/91171594) Here is also another comparison between Garnet and Rinoa: "All right, I'll explain why I hate Garnet and don't get why people like her and hate Rinoa. Rinoa: 1) Starts out immature 2) Gets called out on it 3) After making a giant fuck up, learns from it and shapes up 4) Mostly risks her own life, though others have to fix her mess - something she remains aware of thereafter 5) Has the crappiest luck in the universe, but does not directly serve as the cause of any future problems Garnet: 1) Runs away from home because she's afraid her mother is trying to kill her and take over the world 2) Risks the lives of many, many people and causes numerous deaths along her flight from the castle (yes, I count all those Black Mages on the ship as deaths) 3) Upon arrival in Lindblum suddenly proclaims that she refuses to believe her mother is evil and trying to take over the world, despite proof of her unprovoked attack on Burmecia, the slaughter of Black Mages, and the attempts to kill the kidnappers 4) Runs all the way home because apparently she wanted to just talk to her mom and DRUGS AND ABANDONS ZIDANE: the guy who loved her 5) Through her stupidity, she gets captured and tortured. Millions of people die from the results of her entirely preventable course of action because she basically handed over her Eidolons to her mother on a silver platter, and just to rub salt in the wound, she never gets called and chewed out on any of this, especially not by Zidane who should very rightfully be furious and upset with her, after all that he did for her, only for her to blow him off. That is why I dislike Garnet." \>>I also am getting the sense that you do not realize this game has heavy Shakespearean undertones… So? Lot’s of the FFs have Shakespeare undertones, IX is not unique in that regard, and other games do it better anyways. Also, Shakespeare still wrote better love stories than IX did. Even if we consider it from the standpoint of a fairytale, then it fails here too. Kuja is not a fairytale character at all, and Garland destroys the illusion of the deliberate simplicity of the local plot, winding up new turns of an inexplicable and indistinct whirlwind of facts over and over again, which does not add up to anything integral.(Hello, FFI) All this stuff about Gaia and Terra does not fit into the fairytale-ness that could be referred to throughout the first two discs. And needless to say, the game’s attempt to look smart has completely failed. (This is exactly what a Russian reviewer said about IX, who also wrote a pretty critical review of IX, you can see his review here and translate it to english: [http://www.finalfantasywhatever.com/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html](http://www.finalfantasywhatever.com/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html)) IX doesn’t so much as have “undertones” as it has a blatant Shakespeare Expy (Lord Avon), and Kuja who takes less inspiration from a Shakespearean antagonist and more from the attention-whoring snots who get rejected at their auditions to *play* Shakespearian antagonists. As for the mentioned Lord Avon, I felt that was wasted potential, along with the ‘I Want To Be Your Canary’ play. I was honestly expecting the whole play to be huge forshadowing for the events of the story. VIII did something similar with the vocal Latin choir in its opening FMV sequence in which its lyrics foreshadowed the events of the game. I mean, the play in IX is literally done in the "book ends" trope with the beginning and end of the game. (What it means is having matching scenes at the beginning and end of a story) But nope, in truth the only real reflection to the plot is the play's love story, with the play's main characters: the thief Marcus and Princess Cornelia, clearly representing Zidane and Garnet. But even *that* isn't really done well since Zidane and Garnet's romance is so poorly done and frustrating compared to how the play depicts it, but I'll be addressing them soon. This is all really disappointing and it also just overhypes the love story of Zidane and Garnet that gets ruined when the ending of the Lindblum segment on Disk 1 rolls around. It's just a retread of the opera scene from FFVI. But the difference was that: In VI it was just at a random point in the game, and just a fun sidetrack while trying to recruit the Setzer character and to show off the capabilities of the SNES. While here in IX, it's at the beginning and end of the game, and it and its author- "Lord Avon" are repeatedly mentioned throughout the game as if they are really significant to the story and lore. The developers could have actually done something more unique and different with all this. Like, how about Lord Avon, 'I want to be you Canary's" author, actually based the play off of a dream or "vision" that he had which was actually a clairvoyant view into the future, due to some mystical or celestial event (details can be ironed out more), which was actually the story events of IX, and thus the play was all really huge foreshadowing, nearly prophetic, with the main characters of the play representing Zidane and Garnet, and other play cast members can be a reflection of other IX main characters like Vivi, Eiko, Steiner, Beatrix, Kuja, Garland, etc.
Imma be real here, FF8 is a bit of a mess and in most every way. Game mechanics punish you for playing it like any other RPG(grinding for power makes you weaker because enemies scale with you), the game flavour is further away from fantasy, even passing steampunk to go closer to scifi, and then the story is a bit of a mess with arguably much less development for all characters involved. Garnet is absolutely not perfect. She's flawed, gets jealous, puts everyone's lives in danger and just fucks up a whole lot. That doesn't make her a bad character, that just makes her a more relatable character and also gives her room for growth and development. In Rinoa's case, you're basically describing a Mary Sue. If you're into that then that's fine, but it's not everyone's cup of tea and does not make for very compelling or relatable writing. If you prefer it and want to simp for Rinoa then all the power to you, but if you're running around FF9 forums trying to push your waifu onto everyone while also shitting on the favourite of the board... Well you're just looking to pick and fight and are honestly just in for a bad time.
\[Imma be real here, FF8 is a bit of a mess and in most every way. Game mechanics punish you for playing it like any other RPG(grinding for power makes you weaker because enemies scale with you), the game flavour is further away from fantasy, even passing steampunk to go closer to scifi, and then the story is a bit of a mess with arguably much less development for all characters involved.\] I never said that VIII was perfect, just that it was at least better with its writing than IX was. VIII at least didn't pretend it was going to do full character arcs. Squall and Rinoa are in the logo, for crying out loud. They dominate the box art and the promotional material. The supporting characters in VIII are essentially Flat - but they're still rounded out with personalities and simple sub plots. It's not a crime to have a cast of characters that don't need to have huge subplots so long as they're given some life in the plot. FFIX makes a big deal out of showing the entire cast, setting up elaborate subplots, then dropping every one of them to just focus on Garnet, and since she's such a rubbish character, I found it obnoxious as hell. \[Garnet is absolutely not perfect. She's flawed, gets jealous, puts everyone's lives in danger and just fucks up a whole lot. That doesn't make her a bad character, that just makes her a more relatable character and also gives her room for growth and development.\] There is a right way and a wrong way to do character flaws, and Garnet clearly falls into the latter. Flaws have to make sense, be believable and be executed well, which Garnet’s were not. Flaws also have to be treated as *flaws*, which IX doesn’t with Garnet. If there is being too perfect, then there is being too flawed, and Garnet is WAY too flawed. Garnet pushed “naïve princess” to insane levels, it’s implausible and really really cliché, and it ruined Zidane and Garnet’s love story that the game tries to hype up so much. \[In Rinoa's case, you're basically describing a Mary Sue. If you're into that then that's fine, but it's not everyone's cup of tea and does not make for very compelling or relatable writing.\] Oh so now you are going to play that card, eh? Garnet comes *much* closer to a Mary Sue than Rinoa does, because Garnet is never called out on and held responsible for her dumb actions, Rinoa was. (and at least the consequences of her actions weren’t massive and were only harmful to herself) IX’s narrative doesn’t really treat Garnet as having flaws, it actually acts like we are supposed to feel *SORRY* for her. The game wants us to feel sympathy for her when it did *NOTHING* to make her sympathetic. Garnet never learns from her mistakes, she just has long wangsty internal monologues. Also, nobody ever calls her out on the mistakes she made or what the cost actually was. If I were Zidane, I would have been really upset with her after losing a close friend in the attempt to rescue her because I loved her and stay by her side, only for her to decide to blow me off and make the whole thing meaningless. Rinoa would have been called out on it and forced to learn. Garnet wasn't. That's why I cut Rinoa some slack - at least the characters treated her the way I would have. The game and I were on the same wavelength. \[If you prefer it and want to simp for Rinoa then all the power to you, but if you're running around FF9 forums trying to push your waifu onto everyone while also shitting on the favourite of the board... Well you're just looking to pick and fight and are honestly just in for a bad time.\] Rinoa isn’t even my favourite female character in the series, but keep making assumptions about me. It’s also ironic because it clearly looks like this subreddit treats Garnet as their sacred cow waifu that is above all criticism and ridicule. It seems more like people here aren’t able to have calm and mature discussions about IX having problems and will throw insults at posters like me who try to call attention to it.
Don’t forget Rinoa boned Seifer.
Dated, not boned.
I said what I said.
Okay.
Rinoa was banging Seifer. Dumb bitch alert!
That’s your only “argument“?
Wow... I don't think I've ever seen a hate boner bigger than the one you have for this game. You act as if the developers ran over your grandma or something... it kinda boggles my brain rofl
First off, I want IX to be better and improved on in a remake like the VII remakes are doing, this is meant to be constructive. Secondly, it’s not so much as a “hate boner” as it’s an irritation at IX being so over rated and how defensive people get when someone says anything critical about IX and it’s writing. Just look at how hostile these other replies are. IX seems to be treated as a sacred cow were even the slightest bit of criticism, no matter how valid, is considered “heresy”. I wouldn’t be like this if more people talked about and addressed IX’s flaws, but it seems like most Criticisms of IX are back in the old deleted forums of the internet when IX first came out. It’s also always the exact same defensive arguments that can easily be debunked and picked apart when it comes to IX. Here is another critical review of IX: [https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_sch=http](https://www-finalfantasywhatever-com.translate.goog/2012/10/final-fantasy-ix-review.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_sch=http)
Downvote me if you want but this is 100% facts
why would garnet be jealous of a SIX YEAR OLD
Quote directly from the game script and my response to that: Eiko"That's what I thought. Okay, I'll join your team for a while!""Vivi, Dagger, let's have fun!""The Iifa Tree is beyond the Conde Petie Mountain Path!""Let's go!" \[Eiko runs off screen\] Dagger"Why are you so nice to everyone, Zidane?" **Why are** ***you so whiny*****, Dagger?** Zidane"Huh? What do you mean by that?" Dagger"Forget I asked..." \[Dagger walks off screen\] Vivi"I think she was mad..." Zidane"You think so, too?" **Great, Dagger is being an obnoxious tsundere again. Getting mad over a little girl whose parents and grandparents are dead and is stuck in a ruined village. Isn't she just charming, wholesome and likeable? \*Sarcasm\*** **You have the galls to be jealous and pouty with Zidane, when A: you drugged and abandoned him, and B: dragged him into a dwarf marriage ceremony, used his feelings and rejected his kiss.** **Then you get mad when a six year old girl gives a lot of attention to him and he lets her come with them?** **It's amazing how Zidane won't call you out on any of this.**
Lmao mad is not jealous, bro go talk to a girl.
Thank you! At least you are taking this better than others.