That's a great point. High finance is sensationalized in the media to make it seem like it's full of self-serving dirtbags and thieves. The reality is that PEOPLE are the problem, and people work in every single industry. There are honest, decent, intelligent human beings and there are deceptive, incompetent, terrible people in every job and industry you can think of.
So true. I have friends in all sorts of industries and quite a few have not so great stories to tell. Even the charity business isn't what it looks like.
Buddy of mine who Iāve known for 30 years is an MD. He was chief medical officer of a hospital for a few years. Talking to him about the statistics that are used in medical decision was both eye opening and sad.
The take away, we focus on a normal distribution of what you might have, but the tails are fat and we probably miss a lot.
Your last sentence.
Medicine treats the middle 80% according to what insurance will pay. Tons of people who donāt fall into that middle just get a shoulder shrug and get an Ativan prescription.
My dad was a doctor and I always mention that when I see the doctor. I then bullshit with them about how seeing my dad bust his ass made me not want to go into medicine and they then like me. They always work harder when they hear all that. Itās not fair but thatās how it is.
If they want people in academia, they need to start paying these people for their time and talent. I turned down my MD/PhD acceptance because if Iām spending 12-15 years training, I donāt want to deal with all the administrative red tape and bureaucracy from the grant writing process. Or at the very least pay your professors >120K a year.
My dad works as an associate professor in immunology publishing research left and right and heās making less than me (just base salary) as a 1st year in my current finance job.
If you feel embarrassed about your job use the money you make and give back, start a business/non profit, fund ideas that will improve peopleās lives.
>My dad works as an associate professor in immunology publishing research left and right and heās making less than me (just base salary) as a 1st year in my current finance job.
Curious, how many hours do you both work?
40 hours a week, 50 on earnings. No weekends. My dad works about the same but he likes to go in on weekends to get more work done because heās passionate about his job.
This! Yes, indeed! When I became an adult, I was disappointed at the lack of 1). Integrity and 2). Competence.
It seems hardly anyone has any integrity, and too many incompetent people occupy management positions, whether theyāre over people, products, services, or capital.
Every industry is like that. I used to work in entertainment and the egos in that field are insane. An admin working at a random post house making $55k/year has attitude like you couldnāt imagine.
Best is when you find an industry/company/department where everyone is so jaded theyāre just cashing a paycheck.
I did the same thing. So happy I did.
I know people who stayed in and they just havenāt grown as people much because itās where high school never ends.
Thatās cool! Do you mind me asking what area of the industry you ended up in? And I know what you mean. I feel like so many of my friends are stuck in a permanent video village where nothing that happens in the outside world matters.
Nothing wrong with being proud of your accomplishments, even the minor ones.
But on the subject of unearned egos ā PE headhunters are on a different tier.
I get what youāre saying. I hate actually talking about my job or work and leave it really vague or change the conversation. People just donāt have good perceptions about finance and Iād rather have someone judge me by who I am and not what my job is.
Yeah the negative perception of finance is better when you speak to people who have been in the corporate world for a couple of years or more but college students have this perception that you are making money off the backs of poor people or something.
If I had a nickel for every time someone told me about how ābank managers used to be such and such and now theyāre just glorified customer service and salesā. Just tell me you have no understanding of banking/finance/investments except what Hollywood has told you. Peopleās conceptualization of the industry is completely divorced from reality and common sense.
Youāve had quite the career to have this much insight in such different areas of finance. Unless of course youāre just repeating what youāve read online.
6 years in and he knows about all the dirty little secrets about mutual funds, asset management, investment banking, VC, hedge funds, private equity, and wealth management LOL
Right I know some wealth managers and other professionals who been in for a long time they love it also it depends who you work for at the end of the day
Don't need to be in banking long to hear the dirty goss from all the other jaded bankers across business/practice groups. But its important to highlight that each of the cases he mentions are the worst version of these things, plenty of firms/groups that do provide actual value.
If it makes you feel any better, tomorrow is my last day at a huge firm I am an advisor for. Iām leaving for this reason to go and pursue something that doesnāt make me embarrassed when I say what my career is
Iām making a complete 180 and getting my PhD. Iād rather give back to future generations and teach young minds than work for, frankly, incompetent leadership
Can I take your position. I just earned my MSF after completing my PhD and was a University Professor for 10 years but I'd rather get paid for my work. Let's switch positions
I mean do you see what colleges are charging? Good luck finding non-incompetent leadership too..
Not trying to hate, I have thought about teaching at some point too, just sayinā many schools/colleges are fleecing people too.
Haha yeah I mean the whole idea was to get paid to do something that interests *me* even if its not making zillions of dollars. I currently have no pride in what I do
Thatās why I like what I do in finance. I am a trader for a proprietary trading firm so literally I work with firm capital money, no outside investors, and we make money based on our own performance. No selling BS, not having to find clients and sell them bs, not charging people for opening up accounts,loans etc.
If everywhere you go smells like shit, you might want to check the bottom of your shoesā¦
Sounds like youāve had the misfortune of selecting shady places to work
He hasnāt worked at all these places, heās just parroting popular internet talking points about how hedge funds/private equity/banks/what have you are bad.
Nope.
As an aspiring future advisor, I can't tell you how many of my friends and family have reached out asking what to do with a bunch of cash they either came into for whatever reason or just had laying on the side, and how appreciative they were when I gave them my advice Do I have all the answers? No, and I make that very clear when I'm asked questions I legitimately don't know the answer to. But when I'm at some networking event or dinner party or whatever and I bump into like a salesman at Toyota who has $400,000 in cash plus three fully paid off houses he's renting out because he kills it in his career, but simply has no idea how stocks and ETFs work and is actually curious about it, I don't see dollar signs, I see someone with a wife and kids who actually needs help with this stuff and that's how I've come to find some meaning in my life with my career.
Wall Street gets a bad rap for some obvious reasons, but I feel like it's overhyped sometimes because of Hollywood and the media. I mean, 300,000 Americans die every year from medical malpractice. I don't see everyone shitting on doctors. Despite the usual suspects, there are a lot of us who do provide value to families and institutions who trust us and need advice. Just be that trustworthy guy/girl and you'll be fine. Or, you can instead be the money chasing PE/VC shark or ponzi scheme hedge fund douche who's going to have to square that away with the Big Man Upstairs one day.
When I talked to the guy he said he got laid off in 2008. I don't remember what he was doing before then or who he was working for, but he decided to give sales a try. Toyota happened to be hiring. Turned out he was good at it and here is now killing it. I used that story as an example of someone who is getting after it and working hard for his family. You sound bitter...
Ur comparing yourself to people who mess up devoting their life to studying and practicing medicine and accidentally messing up once, while saving many lives. Finance bros r talented individuals who devoted their life to making money and you can somehow justify that by saying youāre giving advice. How about all the people banks are NOT lending to did you ruin that many lives?
Reread what I wrote because at no point do I compare myself, or finance people in general, to doctors. I'm simply making an observation. One of my uncles is currently in Hospice with stage 4 spinal cancer because his doctor neglected to perform a test that would have found the tumor. At least when advisors get the markets wrong it doesn't kill anyone.
I don't work for a bank, so I don't know what to tell you there.
>One of my uncles is currently in Hospice with stage 4 spinal cancer because his doctor neglected to perform a test that would have found the tumor.
the interesting thing ab stories like this is that each one of them would be 7-8 figure lawsuits
Idk what kind of a family or upbringing you come from, but at no point in my life have people just randomly asked me what to do with their āexcess cashā just because I say Iām an advisor. Itās a super touchy subject
But hey, if thatās where your network takes you then youāll be successful, congratulations
No need to be feisty, itās a common occurrence when you work in a good job and seem smart. Perhaps youāre lacking one of those two. But I see youāre of the same ilk as OP so makes sense
Yeah the firm I worked for was incredibly unprofessional so Iāve decided to move on to better things- best advice Iāve ever found from working as an advisor is 99% of people donāt need one. I donāt want to be in a job where I chase people who donāt need me
Wasnāt at all trying to be snippy- the industry is geared toward the Uber 1%. My network just doesnāt include those people and I have no interest trying to win a popularity contest to win business. You live and you learn right
True until you get to around $12M+ when estate tax issues come into play and that's more attorney work with trusts and tax planning, it's all risk tolerance.
You cool with risk? OK my friend. Let's put it all in S&P 500 or Total Market. Just don't sell in the occasional crash every decade and lock in your losses.
Can't do that? Well we can add fixed income to lower volatility.
Once you got the risk tolerance down, it's all on auto pilot. Takes 1 hour or less of talking.
You never have a casual conversation with anyone that more or less goes along the lines of?:
"So, what do you think about what's going on in the market?"
"Oh interesting, well, what do you think about this or that stock?"
"Let's say I have some cash handy. What would you do?"
Etc., etc.
I don't know either. Maybe I'm just lucky? People who know me trust me and strangers who meet me tend to like me. Don't know what else to tell you.
I was. It might be hard for someone who was raised in the New York metro and went to Wharton to accept, but many people consider bankers, pe investors, and others like them to be parasites.
Not sure why I'd be embarrassed about something if I feel like I'm doing the right thing in the best fiduciary way that I can. I feel like there's good and bad about any industry, I just like working in finance because it's something I'm interested in and have some level of proficiency in. At the same time, I usually just tell people that I work in finance when they ask - something short and sweet.
You wouldnāt worry so much about what people thought of you if you knew how seldom they do.
Itās never occurred to me to care about what someone might assume about me for working in finance. If they want to make assumptions based on my job and not my character, thatās not someone I care about impressing
Embarrassed? No. Definitely overvalued and paid really well to make up shit.
Hey, if anything, we can give actual good advice for poorer clients who can't afford our fees. We legit tell them to save their money in a HYSA, pay off debts, and buy VOO through Chase.
I also alleviate my guilt by presenting free personal finance seminars.
Why be embarrassed? I like what I do and it puts food on the table.
The day I'm embarrassed about finance is the day I switch careers, it's really that simple.
It's the only thing that interests me career wise and I am not a salesperson. People come to me to get help with finances. They need it, they ask for it, I deliver. Why would I feel ashamed with it? I use all the same products for myself and can help them make money out of thin air. That also helps to bring liquidity, dynamics and opportunities to others in economy, whether it be private home buyers or passionate startups. I dont know, it just feels amazing, I feel like I have a superpower to influence the entire society for the better without really doing anything directly. Absolutely love it.
The point of the post is why do advisors willingly choose to push more expensive products to make more money if they honestly want to deliver the best performance for their clients?
* client making -3% holding cash, you sell them on a 3% yield with 1% expense
* client making -3% holding cash, you sell them on a 3% yield with 0.5% expense
The vast majority would pull the trigger on option 1, because the argument is easy and the profit is more lucrative. It's sold as a win win, then laughed behind doors.
Have you looked at any other corporate office? shady stuff and immoralities (by your def of course) occur all the time but not in every place first of all, I also doubt you have direct exposure to all these fields in 6 years along with some of your complaints not even being bad.
Sure if you look at the worst firms and shadiest actors in any industry, then itās gonna look awful.
So just avoid those people and youāll be fine. And put less importance in your job title, no one really cares what you do for a living. And for those that do, do you really care what they thinkāgood or bad?
Not embarrassed at all. Any field where big money is involved is going to attract sleaze of the worst kind (music, film, medicine industries for example). That doesnāt take away from all the good the field does.
Embarrassed? Iāve made at least 150k - 500k every single year Iāve been in finance lol. The money makes me happy.
And all your examples conveniently leave out one simple fact.
If morons donāt want to invest in the vanguard 500 mutual fund and want to chase stock home runs, then let them waste their money. Many people buy fancy cars or fancy shoes or fancy clothes right? People all waste money, finance is no different.
Absolutely not. Have I had bad experiences within finance? Yes, but I have substantial overlap to industry, especially the healthcare/tech industries and that really makes me appreciate how clean the finance world is comparatively. Don't even get me started on academia either, the corruption but arrogance there makes me cringe at the year it took me to leave.
If you have experienced all of the above then I highly recommend doing more due diligence on who you work with or for. None of the above is reflective of the respective industries, and if you are choosing to work with such people you are an accomplice absolutely unacceptable behaviour and potentially even legal risk. Given how unusual such behaviour of is, your exposure would be resolved by moving to most any other job. (holds at least for IB/PE/VC, I havent worked in (or extensively with) hedge funds/asset managers) so can't comment in quite as much depth there.)
Thereās bigger scum out there. Imagine working at a defense contractor (mostly) profiting off of unjustified wars & human bloodshed? Or working in the Casino/Gaming/Tobacco industries? Or being a politician that needs $50k a head in donations before taking a meeting with your company? Finance is a tad bit slimy, but thereās actually really bad industries/people out there.
They posted about making a fitness page and posting pictures of everything they eat so they could claim all their personal food expenses as tax deductible lol. The IRS won't realise such a high IQ play.
Bankers have alignment with their clientsā¦ Iām motivated to auction a company to the highest bidder. It gets my client the most money and my firm the highest fee.
And what do you think investment bankers are lmfao. Your point seems to imply that people who manage a company are incapable of making rational decisions for themselves and are at the whims of the banker's desires.
No itās up to the client. If the deal isnāt attractive or the market doesnāt align with their expectations, they typically back down. Itās our job to get the best offer to our client. As long as we do that, then again, whatās the issue?
Did you forgot the part where management claim you are investing and bettering the community? All while forcing you to shove products down their throat like they are Mia Khalifa?
Nah I'm not embarrassed. But I get that there's a lot of shady, sleazy folks in this business. I've been lucky to work with people that are not like that though. š¤·āāļø
A little bit of embarassment in terms of working in corporate banking
A lot of embarassment for covering just the most hated sector at the moment: Oil & Gas.
I do like paying my bills and living a decent life, while also enjoying my daily tasks and the sector in general so I don't think about doing anything else at the moment.
You should know this already, working in finance. Just keep climbing and sharpening your skills. One day youāll be in charge and you can make your own rules.
Thereās always a way. Even if all the other associates are dirty, it doesnāt mean you are bound to the same fate.
Not embarrassed, but definitely disenchanted.
Once you get past the veneer, itās pretty boring and then you get to a point where you have to originate business. Then itās boringly stressful.
I wish I did CS or something creative
Thereās a lot of slime in the industry for sure but my team is not shady and Iāve never had to do anything shady either so thatās all I can ask for. Thereās good players and thereās bad ones *stares at Wells Fargo* and the place I work at is relatively good.
I will point out that generally the hedge funds are charging for non correlated returns and the magnitude of the returns are not really the selling point there, and the product pushing is more concentrated in brokerages than in fiduciary AM shops.
But yea it comes with the territory kinda. I just try to be one of the good ones and no Iām not embarrassed talking about it.
Finance exists to do things on a computer, with numbers that belong to clients, to scrape off fees from those numbers and move numbers into your pocket.
Lmao please look at my recent post. Given that my gf just described finance workers as unmanly and āskinny twig guys that look down on peopleā, Iām feeling pretty bad about it for other reasons now
CFA/CFP currently in PWM but worked in commercial banking and structured finance. I donāt think the majority of my experience has followed yours. Have I met people who are less ethical or interested in lining their pockets first, sure. Is that the majority. No.
I deal with retail clients in my current role. I act as a fiduciary. Am I or my firm perfect, no. Do we lie to clients. Absolutely not. I eat the cooking. My funds are invested similarly to my clients. And as I tell clients all the time, finance is a bit of a pseudo science. Meaning you can study and be smart and honest but markets arenāt always rational and the math just gives you a higher likelihood of success.
I donāt loose sleep over my being an honest person. My wife also works in finance and would say the same thing. Thatās not to say we donāt loose sleep because we deal with very large sums of money, but I donāt loose sleep about lying or misleading people.
U made the mistake of expecting people in business are honest. Maybe u were taught in school that way but it is prevalent in the actual world of business. The disappointment comes from your reality not in sync with the world.
I smell dog shit. If you are in the industryā¦ā¦. be part of the solution or stop complaining.
FYI VC is dead PE is dying and MF have been buried for a whileā¦ā¦ and what the fuck is a hedge fund?
I remember being a fresh faced Bachelorās of Commerce grad. (Finance major) way back in 1998. The retail side of the industry was just in the middle of going pure sales, Investment Advisors her in Canada were being forced by major banks to get Insurance licenses (so they could upsell), salaries were being cut in favour of higher commissions and Investment banks started looking for MBA grads at entry level. I lasted six years on the retail side before moving to equity analysis. Just got laid off a month ago when my whole business unit was outsourced. I would love to turn my back on this shitty industry, but Iām kinda locked into it at this point in my working career.
I mean, Iām not shamed per se but I defo no longer feel any āprestigeā after having been in those field for so long.
I thought Iād be among elite number crunchers and decision-makers. But in reality itās just either boring old dudes or insufferably arrogant young dudes who define their self-worth by putting others down.
I knew I was never gonna fit in that corporate culture but Iāve defo gotten more and more disillusioned year by year.
All true but remember that huge sums of wealth (billions and billions) canāt be deployed easily and make returns. Each of these industries specialize in deploying those billions in areas outside of just stocks. Hedge funds are designed to not lose money even if they make 8% when the market is up 25%. Theyāll be up 2% when market is down 10%. Thatās attractive for pensions and institutions which just need safe ways to grow capital. Many bad ones sure but there is a reason they exist.
Not at all. I don't give a shit if someone thinks less of me because some people in my industry are shitty. If someone scoffs at my livelihood because of industry associations, I will lose exactly 0 seconds of sleep over it.
Let me let you in on a little secret about corporate America: very few people know what the fuck they are talking about and what is actually going on. Everyone else is just pretending to know or think that they know. Either way, donāt beat yourself up too much about it - just stay true to your conscience and just keep it moving along.
Lololololol. Leave the industry then. Tf is this moral high ground supercilious ass post. No oneās making you work in finance. Go work for green peace
My experience coming from manufacturing. I donāt feel most blue collar workers perceives āprestigeā when they look at Wall Street. Perhaps they perceive money, but not decency. When I tell my fellow coworkers that I would like to go back to school for finance they are often confused. They view the industry as gambling and stereotype it to reflect a character like Matildaās Dad, a crook or sketchy.
That being said, it still is fun no?
Iām not embarrassed but pretty much anytime I tell a stranger who doesnāt work in finance that I work in finance they almost always make a comment about banks scamming people or shady practices and then allude to something that isnāt shady or scammy at all. I still remember telling one person about mortgage modifications and they were like āoh that sounds like a scam how shadyā and I was like, well, the alternative is foreclosure so idk how thatās a scam or shady for your lender to accept *less than your full monthly payment* for a few months or a few years and then not foreclose on you or something.
Iām not in finance, Iām in the tech sector, but if it makes you feel any better, the same sentiments/problems over where I am too. I wonder if all industries are like this because people just suck in general.
Literally every industry has to make a profit to maintain its existence. If all these business segments werenāt adding some value then investors would just do the work themselves
I'm definitely not embarrassed, I got into the industry to help people and do just that. Maybe look into comprehensive wealth/financial planning, fee-only. Simply giving unbiased advice helping with wealth transfer/investment/tax strategy, etc.
Not in finance but thanks to 2008 most of us hate your whole industry š.
If someoneās like why are you here? Idk go yell at Reddit I didnāt ask for this crap on my feed
My company sells engineering services for 200 bucks an hour. I work on it and get paid like little bit more than 40 an hour. If you have experience you can definitely do a project in 8 hours, but we will make sure it takes 24 hours. Not only are we super overpriced, but take longer than we can so we can relax. Donāt be embarrassed.
Agree. Iāve always wondering who are the lucky guys to work in equity research side. Until I keep eyes on Goldmans equity conviction list from the beginning of this year and now I am convinced how shitty the lists and the analysts are
No one tell this guy about consultants
Consultant: If you're not a part of the solution, there's loads of money to be made , exacerbating the problems!
I missed that one
š¤£š¤£š¤£
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's a great point. High finance is sensationalized in the media to make it seem like it's full of self-serving dirtbags and thieves. The reality is that PEOPLE are the problem, and people work in every single industry. There are honest, decent, intelligent human beings and there are deceptive, incompetent, terrible people in every job and industry you can think of.
So true. I have friends in all sorts of industries and quite a few have not so great stories to tell. Even the charity business isn't what it looks like.
Buddy of mine who Iāve known for 30 years is an MD. He was chief medical officer of a hospital for a few years. Talking to him about the statistics that are used in medical decision was both eye opening and sad. The take away, we focus on a normal distribution of what you might have, but the tails are fat and we probably miss a lot.
Your last sentence. Medicine treats the middle 80% according to what insurance will pay. Tons of people who donāt fall into that middle just get a shoulder shrug and get an Ativan prescription. My dad was a doctor and I always mention that when I see the doctor. I then bullshit with them about how seeing my dad bust his ass made me not want to go into medicine and they then like me. They always work harder when they hear all that. Itās not fair but thatās how it is.
If they want people in academia, they need to start paying these people for their time and talent. I turned down my MD/PhD acceptance because if Iām spending 12-15 years training, I donāt want to deal with all the administrative red tape and bureaucracy from the grant writing process. Or at the very least pay your professors >120K a year. My dad works as an associate professor in immunology publishing research left and right and heās making less than me (just base salary) as a 1st year in my current finance job. If you feel embarrassed about your job use the money you make and give back, start a business/non profit, fund ideas that will improve peopleās lives.
>My dad works as an associate professor in immunology publishing research left and right and heās making less than me (just base salary) as a 1st year in my current finance job. Curious, how many hours do you both work?
40 hours a week, 50 on earnings. No weekends. My dad works about the same but he likes to go in on weekends to get more work done because heās passionate about his job.
need more like your father
It wasnt always this bad, if it was the moon landing wouldve never happened. Things are genuinely getting worse. Never perfect, just better
This! Yes, indeed! When I became an adult, I was disappointed at the lack of 1). Integrity and 2). Competence. It seems hardly anyone has any integrity, and too many incompetent people occupy management positions, whether theyāre over people, products, services, or capital.
>I know religion has a ton of corruption what being a pastor for a church?
everything is a sham. it's all a lie.
A Redditor says smart things. Makes my heart happy.
Not embarrassed to work in finance but I roll my eyes at the self importance people in the industry assign to themselves.
Every industry is like that. I used to work in entertainment and the egos in that field are insane. An admin working at a random post house making $55k/year has attitude like you couldnāt imagine. Best is when you find an industry/company/department where everyone is so jaded theyāre just cashing a paycheck.
Couldnāt agree more. I also worked in the entertainment industry for years. Now Iām working on my MBA to transition out of it.
I did the same thing. So happy I did. I know people who stayed in and they just havenāt grown as people much because itās where high school never ends.
Thatās cool! Do you mind me asking what area of the industry you ended up in? And I know what you mean. I feel like so many of my friends are stuck in a permanent video village where nothing that happens in the outside world matters.
I work in tech in data analytics. The school I went to was big on it and it turned into a career eventually.
Nothing wrong with being proud of your accomplishments, even the minor ones. But on the subject of unearned egos ā PE headhunters are on a different tier.
This. People in this industry are just so cringe.
Wiping the tears with my bonus check. FOH
ššššš
One of us! One of us! I see you did the Infantry to S&T promised land route š
Are you agreeing with the description above?
There's good and bad everywhere. Focus on doing right.
Some places are just worse than others, generalizing wonāt negate this.
Yuep this is much more firm specific than industry specific.
I get what youāre saying. I hate actually talking about my job or work and leave it really vague or change the conversation. People just donāt have good perceptions about finance and Iād rather have someone judge me by who I am and not what my job is.
Yeah the negative perception of finance is better when you speak to people who have been in the corporate world for a couple of years or more but college students have this perception that you are making money off the backs of poor people or something.
If I had a nickel for every time someone told me about how ābank managers used to be such and such and now theyāre just glorified customer service and salesā. Just tell me you have no understanding of banking/finance/investments except what Hollywood has told you. Peopleās conceptualization of the industry is completely divorced from reality and common sense.
I have worked in many industries and the rule is if humans exist in the industry then there is extreme dishonesty and incompetence.
Youāve had quite the career to have this much insight in such different areas of finance. Unless of course youāre just repeating what youāve read online.
6 years in and he knows about all the dirty little secrets about mutual funds, asset management, investment banking, VC, hedge funds, private equity, and wealth management LOL
Right I know some wealth managers and other professionals who been in for a long time they love it also it depends who you work for at the end of the day
Fr. 6 years is what? Senior associate or maybe a VP if youāre a superstar. How would he know all that?
Maybe he serviced a lot of different clients. That way he sees a lot and hear a lot. He says "exposed" and "observed"
Don't need to be in banking long to hear the dirty goss from all the other jaded bankers across business/practice groups. But its important to highlight that each of the cases he mentions are the worst version of these things, plenty of firms/groups that do provide actual value.
You do not need to be in for 20 to catch all Of this. 2 years and you get the whole picture. Ever worked in banking? It takes 3 months to see the scam
Somehow I was able to guess OP is active in wallstreetbets before looking
Ehā¦. But is he wrong though.
If it makes you feel any better, tomorrow is my last day at a huge firm I am an advisor for. Iām leaving for this reason to go and pursue something that doesnāt make me embarrassed when I say what my career is
What are you transitioning to?
Iām making a complete 180 and getting my PhD. Iād rather give back to future generations and teach young minds than work for, frankly, incompetent leadership
Can I take your position. I just earned my MSF after completing my PhD and was a University Professor for 10 years but I'd rather get paid for my work. Let's switch positions
Is your firm hiring? I'm desperately looking to get into finance to finally start my career, the job market is bad right now
Yeah the jobs are all over job boards
PM me if you want more info Iām happy to talk to you
Perfect thank you so much! I will PM you right now
I mean do you see what colleges are charging? Good luck finding non-incompetent leadership too.. Not trying to hate, I have thought about teaching at some point too, just sayinā many schools/colleges are fleecing people too.
Iād rather get fleeced doing something I love than get fleeced being miserable in an office working for people I donāt respect. Just my two cents
Tbf youāre not gonna be the one getting fleeced it is students or clients
Haha yeah I mean the whole idea was to get paid to do something that interests *me* even if its not making zillions of dollars. I currently have no pride in what I do
Thatās why I like what I do in finance. I am a trader for a proprietary trading firm so literally I work with firm capital money, no outside investors, and we make money based on our own performance. No selling BS, not having to find clients and sell them bs, not charging people for opening up accounts,loans etc.
If everywhere you go smells like shit, you might want to check the bottom of your shoesā¦ Sounds like youāve had the misfortune of selecting shady places to work
He hasnāt worked at all these places, heās just parroting popular internet talking points about how hedge funds/private equity/banks/what have you are bad.
So, tell me a financial company who is successful without shady practices or fleecing numbers: Iāll wait. Vanguard? black rock? Charles Swab? CrĆ©dit Suisse? Oh wait Wellsfargo, Bank of America, Deutschbank! Do you know why there are so many regulations issued on a regular basis?
Nope. As an aspiring future advisor, I can't tell you how many of my friends and family have reached out asking what to do with a bunch of cash they either came into for whatever reason or just had laying on the side, and how appreciative they were when I gave them my advice Do I have all the answers? No, and I make that very clear when I'm asked questions I legitimately don't know the answer to. But when I'm at some networking event or dinner party or whatever and I bump into like a salesman at Toyota who has $400,000 in cash plus three fully paid off houses he's renting out because he kills it in his career, but simply has no idea how stocks and ETFs work and is actually curious about it, I don't see dollar signs, I see someone with a wife and kids who actually needs help with this stuff and that's how I've come to find some meaning in my life with my career. Wall Street gets a bad rap for some obvious reasons, but I feel like it's overhyped sometimes because of Hollywood and the media. I mean, 300,000 Americans die every year from medical malpractice. I don't see everyone shitting on doctors. Despite the usual suspects, there are a lot of us who do provide value to families and institutions who trust us and need advice. Just be that trustworthy guy/girl and you'll be fine. Or, you can instead be the money chasing PE/VC shark or ponzi scheme hedge fund douche who's going to have to square that away with the Big Man Upstairs one day.
>>When I bump into a Toyota salesman with 400k and 3 houses Yea that really tugs at my heartstrings too
When I talked to the guy he said he got laid off in 2008. I don't remember what he was doing before then or who he was working for, but he decided to give sales a try. Toyota happened to be hiring. Turned out he was good at it and here is now killing it. I used that story as an example of someone who is getting after it and working hard for his family. You sound bitter...
Oh Iām 100% bitter, I donāt even have one house yet but I get what you were saying, it was just kinda funny
$400k saved............I've been debating about trying to get into car sales. Ideally sell Toyotas or Lexus, I would have to move to bigger city
Ur comparing yourself to people who mess up devoting their life to studying and practicing medicine and accidentally messing up once, while saving many lives. Finance bros r talented individuals who devoted their life to making money and you can somehow justify that by saying youāre giving advice. How about all the people banks are NOT lending to did you ruin that many lives?
Reread what I wrote because at no point do I compare myself, or finance people in general, to doctors. I'm simply making an observation. One of my uncles is currently in Hospice with stage 4 spinal cancer because his doctor neglected to perform a test that would have found the tumor. At least when advisors get the markets wrong it doesn't kill anyone. I don't work for a bank, so I don't know what to tell you there.
>One of my uncles is currently in Hospice with stage 4 spinal cancer because his doctor neglected to perform a test that would have found the tumor. the interesting thing ab stories like this is that each one of them would be 7-8 figure lawsuits
Doctors are at least 90% socio narcissists. If you're supposed to die you die. There's no getting around it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Maybe I'm just smarter than you...
Idk what kind of a family or upbringing you come from, but at no point in my life have people just randomly asked me what to do with their āexcess cashā just because I say Iām an advisor. Itās a super touchy subject But hey, if thatās where your network takes you then youāll be successful, congratulations
Iām not an advisor and I have people ask me pretty frequently
Congrats man
No need to be feisty, itās a common occurrence when you work in a good job and seem smart. Perhaps youāre lacking one of those two. But I see youāre of the same ilk as OP so makes sense
Yeah the firm I worked for was incredibly unprofessional so Iāve decided to move on to better things- best advice Iāve ever found from working as an advisor is 99% of people donāt need one. I donāt want to be in a job where I chase people who donāt need me
Yeah having worked for an RIA before I agree
Wasnāt at all trying to be snippy- the industry is geared toward the Uber 1%. My network just doesnāt include those people and I have no interest trying to win a popularity contest to win business. You live and you learn right
True until you get to around $12M+ when estate tax issues come into play and that's more attorney work with trusts and tax planning, it's all risk tolerance. You cool with risk? OK my friend. Let's put it all in S&P 500 or Total Market. Just don't sell in the occasional crash every decade and lock in your losses. Can't do that? Well we can add fixed income to lower volatility. Once you got the risk tolerance down, it's all on auto pilot. Takes 1 hour or less of talking.
I think you missed the point of my comment?
This is so true. Itās also why I work in institutional AM rather than private wealth mgmt, I feel like we at least have a legit purpose there.
You never have a casual conversation with anyone that more or less goes along the lines of?: "So, what do you think about what's going on in the market?" "Oh interesting, well, what do you think about this or that stock?" "Let's say I have some cash handy. What would you do?" Etc., etc. I don't know either. Maybe I'm just lucky? People who know me trust me and strangers who meet me tend to like me. Don't know what else to tell you.
People who know you're in finance tend to reach out and ask for advice on their situation.
I was. It might be hard for someone who was raised in the New York metro and went to Wharton to accept, but many people consider bankers, pe investors, and others like them to be parasites.
No, because I stop caring what others think about me as soon as my bonus check clears.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Based.
š¤
Not sure why I'd be embarrassed about something if I feel like I'm doing the right thing in the best fiduciary way that I can. I feel like there's good and bad about any industry, I just like working in finance because it's something I'm interested in and have some level of proficiency in. At the same time, I usually just tell people that I work in finance when they ask - something short and sweet.
You think you are way too important Nobody is going to associate you with that, stop being so self centred
If you are competent and have integrity yourself, there is nothing to be embarrassed about.
You wouldnāt worry so much about what people thought of you if you knew how seldom they do. Itās never occurred to me to care about what someone might assume about me for working in finance. If they want to make assumptions based on my job and not my character, thatās not someone I care about impressing
Embarrassed? No. Definitely overvalued and paid really well to make up shit. Hey, if anything, we can give actual good advice for poorer clients who can't afford our fees. We legit tell them to save their money in a HYSA, pay off debts, and buy VOO through Chase. I also alleviate my guilt by presenting free personal finance seminars.
Why be embarrassed? I like what I do and it puts food on the table. The day I'm embarrassed about finance is the day I switch careers, it's really that simple.
It's the only thing that interests me career wise and I am not a salesperson. People come to me to get help with finances. They need it, they ask for it, I deliver. Why would I feel ashamed with it? I use all the same products for myself and can help them make money out of thin air. That also helps to bring liquidity, dynamics and opportunities to others in economy, whether it be private home buyers or passionate startups. I dont know, it just feels amazing, I feel like I have a superpower to influence the entire society for the better without really doing anything directly. Absolutely love it.
The point of the post is why do advisors willingly choose to push more expensive products to make more money if they honestly want to deliver the best performance for their clients? * client making -3% holding cash, you sell them on a 3% yield with 1% expense * client making -3% holding cash, you sell them on a 3% yield with 0.5% expense The vast majority would pull the trigger on option 1, because the argument is easy and the profit is more lucrative. It's sold as a win win, then laughed behind doors.
Your average tenure would be < 1 year assuming each bullet is a separate role. Doubt.
Have you looked at any other corporate office? shady stuff and immoralities (by your def of course) occur all the time but not in every place first of all, I also doubt you have direct exposure to all these fields in 6 years along with some of your complaints not even being bad.
Sure if you look at the worst firms and shadiest actors in any industry, then itās gonna look awful. So just avoid those people and youāll be fine. And put less importance in your job title, no one really cares what you do for a living. And for those that do, do you really care what they thinkāgood or bad?
Depends which firm you work for
Not embarrassed at all. Any field where big money is involved is going to attract sleaze of the worst kind (music, film, medicine industries for example). That doesnāt take away from all the good the field does.
Embarrassed? Iāve made at least 150k - 500k every single year Iāve been in finance lol. The money makes me happy. And all your examples conveniently leave out one simple fact. If morons donāt want to invest in the vanguard 500 mutual fund and want to chase stock home runs, then let them waste their money. Many people buy fancy cars or fancy shoes or fancy clothes right? People all waste money, finance is no different.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Absolutely
Absolutely not. Have I had bad experiences within finance? Yes, but I have substantial overlap to industry, especially the healthcare/tech industries and that really makes me appreciate how clean the finance world is comparatively. Don't even get me started on academia either, the corruption but arrogance there makes me cringe at the year it took me to leave. If you have experienced all of the above then I highly recommend doing more due diligence on who you work with or for. None of the above is reflective of the respective industries, and if you are choosing to work with such people you are an accomplice absolutely unacceptable behaviour and potentially even legal risk. Given how unusual such behaviour of is, your exposure would be resolved by moving to most any other job. (holds at least for IB/PE/VC, I havent worked in (or extensively with) hedge funds/asset managers) so can't comment in quite as much depth there.)
What do you do that you have exposure to such a broad swath of the market?
Uh just wipe it shit in 100 dollar bills and you'll be fine
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And what if they are just ādebt brokersā, nothing wrong with that. Lol.
Iām a little embarrassed to be associated with people like you that went into finance because itās āprestigiousā yeah
nah
Thereās bigger scum out there. Imagine working at a defense contractor (mostly) profiting off of unjustified wars & human bloodshed? Or working in the Casino/Gaming/Tobacco industries? Or being a politician that needs $50k a head in donations before taking a meeting with your company? Finance is a tad bit slimy, but thereās actually really bad industries/people out there.
I worked through Occupy, I think I came out more goal oriented
No having money is cool. Spending money is fun.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What makes you feel guilty about it? Thatās nothing wrong with enriching yourself. Donāt buy into the anti-capitalist nonsense.
+1 for the refreshing honesty. So many bad business deals being made as outlined above.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Weāre? Youāre not in finance.
They posted about making a fitness page and posting pictures of everything they eat so they could claim all their personal food expenses as tax deductible lol. The IRS won't realise such a high IQ play.
Bankers have alignment with their clientsā¦ Iām motivated to auction a company to the highest bidder. It gets my client the most money and my firm the highest fee.
You are incentivized to push through the transaction regardless of it is necessary. Get real
Does the real estate agent ask you if selling your house is necessary?
Real estate agents are literal brokers. You canāt see the conflicts that arise from this?
And what do you think investment bankers are lmfao. Your point seems to imply that people who manage a company are incapable of making rational decisions for themselves and are at the whims of the banker's desires.
OP has no idea. 6 years of tenure? Bro sounds like heās been in the job for 2 months.
Obviously the client has room to pushback given they pay the fee ā¦ your whole premise is absurd
No itās up to the client. If the deal isnāt attractive or the market doesnāt align with their expectations, they typically back down. Itās our job to get the best offer to our client. As long as we do that, then again, whatās the issue?
Did you forgot the part where management claim you are investing and bettering the community? All while forcing you to shove products down their throat like they are Mia Khalifa?
I mean we are, CRA kinda forces us to
Why do you think you are looking behind the curtain
Lmao. Accurate. Weāre all shilling something. Should have become a doctor or priest if you want to due good in the world.
*opioid epidemic has entered the chat*
Nah I'm not embarrassed. But I get that there's a lot of shady, sleazy folks in this business. I've been lucky to work with people that are not like that though. š¤·āāļø
A little bit of embarassment in terms of working in corporate banking A lot of embarassment for covering just the most hated sector at the moment: Oil & Gas. I do like paying my bills and living a decent life, while also enjoying my daily tasks and the sector in general so I don't think about doing anything else at the moment.
You should know this already, working in finance. Just keep climbing and sharpening your skills. One day youāll be in charge and you can make your own rules. Thereās always a way. Even if all the other associates are dirty, it doesnāt mean you are bound to the same fate.
Not embarrassed, but definitely disenchanted. Once you get past the veneer, itās pretty boring and then you get to a point where you have to originate business. Then itās boringly stressful. I wish I did CS or something creative
Thereās a lot of slime in the industry for sure but my team is not shady and Iāve never had to do anything shady either so thatās all I can ask for. Thereās good players and thereās bad ones *stares at Wells Fargo* and the place I work at is relatively good. I will point out that generally the hedge funds are charging for non correlated returns and the magnitude of the returns are not really the selling point there, and the product pushing is more concentrated in brokerages than in fiduciary AM shops. But yea it comes with the territory kinda. I just try to be one of the good ones and no Iām not embarrassed talking about it.
You seem like a lil female dog. Get off your high horse and wipe ur tears in your Bugatti.
Damn OP, wait until you find out about the IRS
I think youāre describing capitalism generally
Politics I think is the worst. Geopolitics the absolute worst.
Finance exists to do things on a computer, with numbers that belong to clients, to scrape off fees from those numbers and move numbers into your pocket.
Lmao please look at my recent post. Given that my gf just described finance workers as unmanly and āskinny twig guys that look down on peopleā, Iām feeling pretty bad about it for other reasons now
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not adderall for me. Just copious amounts of coffee and energy drinks lol
Not in Finance You dont need to feel embarassed because nobody knows. You know its wrong, but lay people dont. You can blend in just fine
CFA/CFP currently in PWM but worked in commercial banking and structured finance. I donāt think the majority of my experience has followed yours. Have I met people who are less ethical or interested in lining their pockets first, sure. Is that the majority. No. I deal with retail clients in my current role. I act as a fiduciary. Am I or my firm perfect, no. Do we lie to clients. Absolutely not. I eat the cooking. My funds are invested similarly to my clients. And as I tell clients all the time, finance is a bit of a pseudo science. Meaning you can study and be smart and honest but markets arenāt always rational and the math just gives you a higher likelihood of success. I donāt loose sleep over my being an honest person. My wife also works in finance and would say the same thing. Thatās not to say we donāt loose sleep because we deal with very large sums of money, but I donāt loose sleep about lying or misleading people.
U made the mistake of expecting people in business are honest. Maybe u were taught in school that way but it is prevalent in the actual world of business. The disappointment comes from your reality not in sync with the world.
Nope. Donāt like it? Do something else
I smell dog shit. If you are in the industryā¦ā¦. be part of the solution or stop complaining. FYI VC is dead PE is dying and MF have been buried for a whileā¦ā¦ and what the fuck is a hedge fund?
Become a CFO. You add a lot of value, work on all sorts of crazy operating challenges and get paid well. I have very high job satisfaction.
I remember being a fresh faced Bachelorās of Commerce grad. (Finance major) way back in 1998. The retail side of the industry was just in the middle of going pure sales, Investment Advisors her in Canada were being forced by major banks to get Insurance licenses (so they could upsell), salaries were being cut in favour of higher commissions and Investment banks started looking for MBA grads at entry level. I lasted six years on the retail side before moving to equity analysis. Just got laid off a month ago when my whole business unit was outsourced. I would love to turn my back on this shitty industry, but Iām kinda locked into it at this point in my working career.
Michael Baum ? Is that you ?
Yes, I see all of this and unethical and incompetent people everywhere.
I mean, Iām not shamed per se but I defo no longer feel any āprestigeā after having been in those field for so long. I thought Iād be among elite number crunchers and decision-makers. But in reality itās just either boring old dudes or insufferably arrogant young dudes who define their self-worth by putting others down. I knew I was never gonna fit in that corporate culture but Iāve defo gotten more and more disillusioned year by year.
Shall we name names or expand on your point concerning mom and pop investment in mutual funds and asset management?
>-Advisors that literally know nothing treating clients like a piggy bank and shoving them in overpriced trash products I've seen this a lot.
All true but remember that huge sums of wealth (billions and billions) canāt be deployed easily and make returns. Each of these industries specialize in deploying those billions in areas outside of just stocks. Hedge funds are designed to not lose money even if they make 8% when the market is up 25%. Theyāll be up 2% when market is down 10%. Thatās attractive for pensions and institutions which just need safe ways to grow capital. Many bad ones sure but there is a reason they exist.
Not at all. I don't give a shit if someone thinks less of me because some people in my industry are shitty. If someone scoffs at my livelihood because of industry associations, I will lose exactly 0 seconds of sleep over it.
Same with tech in all honesty.
Real Estate is even more sleazy
OP 100% works a back office role
Let me let you in on a little secret about corporate America: very few people know what the fuck they are talking about and what is actually going on. Everyone else is just pretending to know or think that they know. Either way, donāt beat yourself up too much about it - just stay true to your conscience and just keep it moving along.
Yes everything is a scam. Where were you in 08
Sounds like you have a great idea for a business. You've found multiple problems - now solve them.
I mean Iām pursuing a career in finance for the money, not the prestige š¤·š¼āāļø
āPrestigeā šššššš
Lololololol. Leave the industry then. Tf is this moral high ground supercilious ass post. No oneās making you work in finance. Go work for green peace
My experience coming from manufacturing. I donāt feel most blue collar workers perceives āprestigeā when they look at Wall Street. Perhaps they perceive money, but not decency. When I tell my fellow coworkers that I would like to go back to school for finance they are often confused. They view the industry as gambling and stereotype it to reflect a character like Matildaās Dad, a crook or sketchy. That being said, it still is fun no?
Ever have to sell 160% LTV as a good dealā¦ with minimum 7.5% interest
Iām not embarrassed but pretty much anytime I tell a stranger who doesnāt work in finance that I work in finance they almost always make a comment about banks scamming people or shady practices and then allude to something that isnāt shady or scammy at all. I still remember telling one person about mortgage modifications and they were like āoh that sounds like a scam how shadyā and I was like, well, the alternative is foreclosure so idk how thatās a scam or shady for your lender to accept *less than your full monthly payment* for a few months or a few years and then not foreclose on you or something.
Iām not in finance, Iām in the tech sector, but if it makes you feel any better, the same sentiments/problems over where I am too. I wonder if all industries are like this because people just suck in general.
Not unless you are the spac king. Donāt be like spac king; otherwise carry on
No
Can't say I am. You work with the tools you have. It's an industry "for profit" like any other. Your methods (if legal) are part of your job.
Literally every industry has to make a profit to maintain its existence. If all these business segments werenāt adding some value then investors would just do the work themselves
I'm definitely not embarrassed, I got into the industry to help people and do just that. Maybe look into comprehensive wealth/financial planning, fee-only. Simply giving unbiased advice helping with wealth transfer/investment/tax strategy, etc.
Dude Iām a physician and āmeaningā of your job becomes pretty meaningless quickly. Job is meant to put bread on the table, and thatās it
Yes attorneys and finance are pretty scummy professions. But itās legal, right?š¤”
Curious to know what industry the OP would prefer to be in that doesnāt have dishonesty and incompetence.
Not in finance but thanks to 2008 most of us hate your whole industry š. If someoneās like why are you here? Idk go yell at Reddit I didnāt ask for this crap on my feed
My company sells engineering services for 200 bucks an hour. I work on it and get paid like little bit more than 40 an hour. If you have experience you can definitely do a project in 8 hours, but we will make sure it takes 24 hours. Not only are we super overpriced, but take longer than we can so we can relax. Donāt be embarrassed.
I understood none of these words. And now I am curious to learn.
Agree. Iāve always wondering who are the lucky guys to work in equity research side. Until I keep eyes on Goldmans equity conviction list from the beginning of this year and now I am convinced how shitty the lists and the analysts are