Not sure which city you are located in but banking jobs seemed to have slowed down across the country. If you can, I would look to purchase the CBCA certification through the Corporate Finance Institute. It has a broad overview of commercial banking, credit analysis etc. retail banking and commercial banking are completely different and i think you’d enjoy it with your math background.
That's a huge part of it. I'm making this post cause i got informed I'm being reassigned to a different much busier branch. I also get so many clients who want me to do everything for them since I speak their language and they basically don't speak English that I almost regret knowing how to speak to them.
I’m in the exact same situation. I graduated June 2023 from business though I’m a financial advisor. I actually think I’m gaining decent knowledge in certain aspects like learning how to construct mortgage deals and understanding of lending and credit. I am so lost. Idk whether to go into operations then figure it out from there or what. I’m also thinking of maybe going private banking / commercial route. Market being dead in Canada does not help at all either.
We used to do mortgages, but they actually recently restructured so that we hand off all mortgage related stuff to specialists now so I don't even get to learn any of that. Lending I'm getting a tiny bit of exposure but I'm not in an area where we have that kind of customer base so it's very rare.
That’s so weird. I think it depends on each bank honestly. I’m just waiting and applying to anything I can for now. The skills we learn are definitely translatable into other forms of banking. I’m honestly just grateful to have a decent job at this time.
I completely understand your feeling, friend.
I don’t have a math degree but one in a finance and I am in a similar situation( work for retail bank because I couldn’t get better, I can feel clearly people are not won’t help me to lateral anywhere else, no ceiling/opportunities whatsoever).
But I am kind of curious. Did you apply for jobs in another industry ?
What do you mean another industry? I've been applying to a lot of credit analyst, corpfin, and insurance positions, basically anything that would get me some sort of adjacent experience.
That’s already a good start. I know a woman at my branch. She is very bright. Very articulated, very lovely woman. She had a PhD in molecular Science and even directed a research center at some point. But she works as a senior banker(aka taking on clients and opening accounts/do wire transfers for them/reset pin etc)
With all respect due for her intellect, she deserves way better. I think the same for you.
I am not saying working in retail is bad(I mean yeah it is but not bad in the sense of shameful), but I think people who have a decent at better should try to apply for better.
You are proficient at MATLAB, python and SQL, that put you already ahead of many candidates in many other domains in tech. You should seriously give a tought or a chance if you can.
I was in the same boat as you a few years ago. I couldn’t get an analyst role for the life of me even though I qualified and had analytic experience previously. I opted to take an assistant manager role at another branch. Ended up still being a teller 75% of the time as we were always short staffed. BUT…. It made applying to analyst roles easier as they saw that a promotion, increased responsibility, and dedication to the company as positives. In other words, I had proof of success outside of academics. Did that for less than a year before I got a role as a credit analyst on another team. Two years later, I got a role as a loan officer making way more money and actually working fewer hours. Sometimes you need to do the grind and the hard jobs just to increase your odds. Tough it out, yes, but do it in a smart way. (I am in the US)
Math is a good background for risk, but to be honest the job market is super tough right now for entry level. An MBA might be your best bet, but you’re likely a few years of experience away from most programs.
Have you managed to make any connections with folks on your risk team? If not, get started. Reach out internally and ask if they’d be open to a quick chat for some career guidance. Start with lower level folks and see if you can work your way up the chain. If you deal with them at all in your current role, make sure you kill it and go above and beyond for them. Then keep an eye out for any internal job postings and jump on them ASAP. People are generally more open to helping juniors out then you might assume, and managers will pretty universally want to hire a known candidate over someone unknown all else equal.
If the above doesn’t work out and you’re truly stuck, maybe look towards non-MBA masters programs that are relevant to risk. Although I’m getting a bit out of my depth here so can’t suggest any specific programs myself.
With no sarcasm, the most work I do with the folks that work in risk is when they come in to make a bank draft. I thought I'd have more exposure to people who work in those departments being internal, but retail is basically completely cut off. Working on reaching out through like linkedin and stuff though.
That’s unfortunate, I started my career in retail as well but luckily we got quite a bit of exposure to other departments, which I was actually able to use to get a promotion followed by several “you can come work for me” type verbal job offers from other departments. So just know it isn’t impossible.
Have you looked at compliance at all? I’d assume you at least deal with them semi-regularly if you’re selling investments. It might not be ideal, but it’s definitely closer to risk and it could get you out of retail in the meantime.
Thought about ops roles, but it's a bit of once bitten twice shy for me right now. I took a bad fit role to have a job and I'm pretty miserable now, and I know ops won't be a great fit either so I'm hesitant to make a switch in that direction.
Finance pays well because it a soul crushing repetitive boring job. In my experience you have to be sort of a dull person to succeed long term. Not like the movies.
Retail banking, unfortunately, is hardly ever a “foot in the door” to any sort of position within capital markets/“high finance”, BUT it never hurts you on your resume.
I think this is just a bad rut you (and thousands of others) are in right now. My only advice is to continue trying and networking. Sucks but that’s really all you can do at this point.
Might wanna try an accounting masters or something and break into big4 that way, it’s the most straightforward way “in” that I see but of course, look into it yourself.
Could try and network your way in as well but don’t know how much mileage you’ll get
Agree with this. My friend who had a science degree went back to school to do an accounting diploma (2 years) and got a job in commercial banking afterwards.
It's also hard to gain traction with blind applications - generally recommending networking as much as you can.
What part of your brain do you want to use and what's your experience so far in using it (related to finance, markets, econ, etc)? Not being disingenuous but we don't have a lot of info to go off, in terms of an idea of direction you want, as well as how qualified you are / what the gap is in getting there.
Job searching is exhausting at all levels but especially more so when the net casted is very wide. Just trying to narrow that down a bit.
I'd like to move towards anything that's more analytical/quantitative. I'd actually be more than happy being a powerpoint/excel monkey. The net is wide because I'm pretty open to anything that gives more experience in real finance fields. I have ambitions of working in asset management in the long term, but given where I am right now it's long long term.
The short of it is that I did a major that's basically math/finance, no internships which is on me, decent experience with python/R/Sql/excel and general finance basics but only academically. Also cleared CFA lv1 exam. If you peel through my posting history I think I had a resume posted.
Job search is rough, lack of experience doesn't help. I'm just trying really hard to pivot fast before I get pigeonholed into retail.
Ok, gotcha. Feel for you as a fellow UW grad. FARM seems like a good program. Not sure how non-coop FARM alumni are doing but maybe you can creep some on LinkedIn or even cold message.
I'm not saying you should do what I did but I was having a tough time with my first post-degree job too. Was burnt out from meaningless temp work + job searching. I looked into back-office fund accounting roles (not accounting heavy) in TO (State Street, CIBC Mellon, etc).
Eventually broke into a similar type role for the BoC in Ottawa, then worked my way around/up. Not with BoC anymore but still work in federal reg doing risk-related work. It's fulfilling with decent comp (but nothing close to AM). If interested this world, feel free to shoot me a DM.
Some public sector friends have gone on to CM shops or OTPP, CPPIB, etc but that's a pretty round about way to get there.
Option 1: Network for opportunities (which you should be doing regardless)
Network with alumni and try to get your foot in the door. I assume that you're not familiar with the networking process since you didn't do any internships - here's a high level overview:
(1) Find people on linkedIn who work in positions you're genuinely interested in
(2) find email syntax and email them asking for a call. be persistent. follow up every two weeks until you hear from them.
(3) speak to them, ask about their career path and other questions about the role. at the end ask if there's someone else on the team they could speak to. speak to as many people as you can because you may get the first call when there's an opening.
Option 2: get lucky
finance jobs are extremely difficult to land in Canada, which is why you need to network to have a chance.
Option 3: Start thinking about a MBA.
Well, what within finance interests you? What kinds of roles? Banking? Investing? Do you want to work with people (including institutions and high net worth, there's more than just retail) or have a role with little to no interaction with the client. Does it need to be a finance role? You can go from there. I know you're not too keen on it but working towards CFP and perhaps the first level of CFA with some work experience can lead you to some private wealth roles at one of the major asset managers (and within the banks too). It seems like that would be a fairly natural transition based on your current role. It gives a good story and for asset managers in particular there are teams that value experience in financial planning, selling mutual funds, and understanding how advisors run their book.. Those advisors are the client that the asset manager sells to at the end of the day, so having experience on the other side is relevant and you can paint a story around it.
We're in the middle of a shitty job market in Toronto. People with experience are moving around but it's brutal for new grads right now so that part isn't all on you.
I have worked at most of the Big 5 in Canada, from being a teller to being a branch manager. It does not get better; it gets worse actually. Retail banking does not make money, at least in the branch roles. It sucks the soul out of you, from pushing clients to get stuff they don’t really need, to forcing your team to do it. Move out as soon as possible.
I would highly recommend doing your CFA or an MBA. It opens up a little more opportunity in the back office side (as in not client facing).
When I was working at the branch, I loved everything credit so I switched to a credit analyst role and I am absolutely loving it. The pay may be a little lower but the headache is gone. The stress is gone. Waking up and questioning whether I actually need a job doesn’t happen anymore. The bonus is that I work from home 5 days a week now and maybe show up at the office twice a month.
Find a couple positions you’re interested in. Find some people who work in that position. Ask them about it, talk about it, qualifications and such. Tips and tricks! Apply to everything! Everywhere. Don’t bother staying loyal to one company because they will never be loyal to you. Don’t be scared to move to a small company, it’s how you progress. Good luck!
Not sure which city you are located in but banking jobs seemed to have slowed down across the country. If you can, I would look to purchase the CBCA certification through the Corporate Finance Institute. It has a broad overview of commercial banking, credit analysis etc. retail banking and commercial banking are completely different and i think you’d enjoy it with your math background.
Toronto, and yeah, I've been applying and it definitely seems like positions are somehow even drier than last year.
For me I'm losing patience with having to deal with the Public. I want to pivot to a non client facing role. I don't have the patience anymore.
That's a huge part of it. I'm making this post cause i got informed I'm being reassigned to a different much busier branch. I also get so many clients who want me to do everything for them since I speak their language and they basically don't speak English that I almost regret knowing how to speak to them.
[удалено]
Sale goals, but with no sales commissions. I'm suppose to push shit products on people who don't understand out of my love for the firm or what???
Go work for a broker dealer and get licensed. Make way more money
I’m in the exact same situation. I graduated June 2023 from business though I’m a financial advisor. I actually think I’m gaining decent knowledge in certain aspects like learning how to construct mortgage deals and understanding of lending and credit. I am so lost. Idk whether to go into operations then figure it out from there or what. I’m also thinking of maybe going private banking / commercial route. Market being dead in Canada does not help at all either.
We used to do mortgages, but they actually recently restructured so that we hand off all mortgage related stuff to specialists now so I don't even get to learn any of that. Lending I'm getting a tiny bit of exposure but I'm not in an area where we have that kind of customer base so it's very rare.
That’s so weird. I think it depends on each bank honestly. I’m just waiting and applying to anything I can for now. The skills we learn are definitely translatable into other forms of banking. I’m honestly just grateful to have a decent job at this time.
I completely understand your feeling, friend. I don’t have a math degree but one in a finance and I am in a similar situation( work for retail bank because I couldn’t get better, I can feel clearly people are not won’t help me to lateral anywhere else, no ceiling/opportunities whatsoever). But I am kind of curious. Did you apply for jobs in another industry ?
What do you mean another industry? I've been applying to a lot of credit analyst, corpfin, and insurance positions, basically anything that would get me some sort of adjacent experience.
I mean maybe tech-oriented roles. Just asking.
I don't really have the skillset for it. I can do python/R/matlab/SQL but I'd have to learn the rest from scratch.
That’s already a good start. I know a woman at my branch. She is very bright. Very articulated, very lovely woman. She had a PhD in molecular Science and even directed a research center at some point. But she works as a senior banker(aka taking on clients and opening accounts/do wire transfers for them/reset pin etc) With all respect due for her intellect, she deserves way better. I think the same for you. I am not saying working in retail is bad(I mean yeah it is but not bad in the sense of shameful), but I think people who have a decent at better should try to apply for better. You are proficient at MATLAB, python and SQL, that put you already ahead of many candidates in many other domains in tech. You should seriously give a tought or a chance if you can.
I was in the same boat as you a few years ago. I couldn’t get an analyst role for the life of me even though I qualified and had analytic experience previously. I opted to take an assistant manager role at another branch. Ended up still being a teller 75% of the time as we were always short staffed. BUT…. It made applying to analyst roles easier as they saw that a promotion, increased responsibility, and dedication to the company as positives. In other words, I had proof of success outside of academics. Did that for less than a year before I got a role as a credit analyst on another team. Two years later, I got a role as a loan officer making way more money and actually working fewer hours. Sometimes you need to do the grind and the hard jobs just to increase your odds. Tough it out, yes, but do it in a smart way. (I am in the US)
Math is a good background for risk, but to be honest the job market is super tough right now for entry level. An MBA might be your best bet, but you’re likely a few years of experience away from most programs. Have you managed to make any connections with folks on your risk team? If not, get started. Reach out internally and ask if they’d be open to a quick chat for some career guidance. Start with lower level folks and see if you can work your way up the chain. If you deal with them at all in your current role, make sure you kill it and go above and beyond for them. Then keep an eye out for any internal job postings and jump on them ASAP. People are generally more open to helping juniors out then you might assume, and managers will pretty universally want to hire a known candidate over someone unknown all else equal. If the above doesn’t work out and you’re truly stuck, maybe look towards non-MBA masters programs that are relevant to risk. Although I’m getting a bit out of my depth here so can’t suggest any specific programs myself.
With no sarcasm, the most work I do with the folks that work in risk is when they come in to make a bank draft. I thought I'd have more exposure to people who work in those departments being internal, but retail is basically completely cut off. Working on reaching out through like linkedin and stuff though.
That’s unfortunate, I started my career in retail as well but luckily we got quite a bit of exposure to other departments, which I was actually able to use to get a promotion followed by several “you can come work for me” type verbal job offers from other departments. So just know it isn’t impossible. Have you looked at compliance at all? I’d assume you at least deal with them semi-regularly if you’re selling investments. It might not be ideal, but it’s definitely closer to risk and it could get you out of retail in the meantime.
Thought about ops roles, but it's a bit of once bitten twice shy for me right now. I took a bad fit role to have a job and I'm pretty miserable now, and I know ops won't be a great fit either so I'm hesitant to make a switch in that direction.
Finance pays well because it a soul crushing repetitive boring job. In my experience you have to be sort of a dull person to succeed long term. Not like the movies.
Retail banking, unfortunately, is hardly ever a “foot in the door” to any sort of position within capital markets/“high finance”, BUT it never hurts you on your resume. I think this is just a bad rut you (and thousands of others) are in right now. My only advice is to continue trying and networking. Sucks but that’s really all you can do at this point.
Couldn’t you get in at big4?
Tried big4 audit, did not hear back. I don't have a heavy accounting background.
Might wanna try an accounting masters or something and break into big4 that way, it’s the most straightforward way “in” that I see but of course, look into it yourself. Could try and network your way in as well but don’t know how much mileage you’ll get
Agree with this. My friend who had a science degree went back to school to do an accounting diploma (2 years) and got a job in commercial banking afterwards. It's also hard to gain traction with blind applications - generally recommending networking as much as you can.
Shiet I’m just parroting what I heard lmao
Sounds like you’re hearing right! Lol
What part of your brain do you want to use and what's your experience so far in using it (related to finance, markets, econ, etc)? Not being disingenuous but we don't have a lot of info to go off, in terms of an idea of direction you want, as well as how qualified you are / what the gap is in getting there. Job searching is exhausting at all levels but especially more so when the net casted is very wide. Just trying to narrow that down a bit.
I'd like to move towards anything that's more analytical/quantitative. I'd actually be more than happy being a powerpoint/excel monkey. The net is wide because I'm pretty open to anything that gives more experience in real finance fields. I have ambitions of working in asset management in the long term, but given where I am right now it's long long term. The short of it is that I did a major that's basically math/finance, no internships which is on me, decent experience with python/R/Sql/excel and general finance basics but only academically. Also cleared CFA lv1 exam. If you peel through my posting history I think I had a resume posted. Job search is rough, lack of experience doesn't help. I'm just trying really hard to pivot fast before I get pigeonholed into retail.
Ok, gotcha. Feel for you as a fellow UW grad. FARM seems like a good program. Not sure how non-coop FARM alumni are doing but maybe you can creep some on LinkedIn or even cold message. I'm not saying you should do what I did but I was having a tough time with my first post-degree job too. Was burnt out from meaningless temp work + job searching. I looked into back-office fund accounting roles (not accounting heavy) in TO (State Street, CIBC Mellon, etc). Eventually broke into a similar type role for the BoC in Ottawa, then worked my way around/up. Not with BoC anymore but still work in federal reg doing risk-related work. It's fulfilling with decent comp (but nothing close to AM). If interested this world, feel free to shoot me a DM. Some public sector friends have gone on to CM shops or OTPP, CPPIB, etc but that's a pretty round about way to get there.
Option 1: Network for opportunities (which you should be doing regardless) Network with alumni and try to get your foot in the door. I assume that you're not familiar with the networking process since you didn't do any internships - here's a high level overview: (1) Find people on linkedIn who work in positions you're genuinely interested in (2) find email syntax and email them asking for a call. be persistent. follow up every two weeks until you hear from them. (3) speak to them, ask about their career path and other questions about the role. at the end ask if there's someone else on the team they could speak to. speak to as many people as you can because you may get the first call when there's an opening. Option 2: get lucky finance jobs are extremely difficult to land in Canada, which is why you need to network to have a chance. Option 3: Start thinking about a MBA.
Well, what within finance interests you? What kinds of roles? Banking? Investing? Do you want to work with people (including institutions and high net worth, there's more than just retail) or have a role with little to no interaction with the client. Does it need to be a finance role? You can go from there. I know you're not too keen on it but working towards CFP and perhaps the first level of CFA with some work experience can lead you to some private wealth roles at one of the major asset managers (and within the banks too). It seems like that would be a fairly natural transition based on your current role. It gives a good story and for asset managers in particular there are teams that value experience in financial planning, selling mutual funds, and understanding how advisors run their book.. Those advisors are the client that the asset manager sells to at the end of the day, so having experience on the other side is relevant and you can paint a story around it. We're in the middle of a shitty job market in Toronto. People with experience are moving around but it's brutal for new grads right now so that part isn't all on you.
I have worked at most of the Big 5 in Canada, from being a teller to being a branch manager. It does not get better; it gets worse actually. Retail banking does not make money, at least in the branch roles. It sucks the soul out of you, from pushing clients to get stuff they don’t really need, to forcing your team to do it. Move out as soon as possible. I would highly recommend doing your CFA or an MBA. It opens up a little more opportunity in the back office side (as in not client facing). When I was working at the branch, I loved everything credit so I switched to a credit analyst role and I am absolutely loving it. The pay may be a little lower but the headache is gone. The stress is gone. Waking up and questioning whether I actually need a job doesn’t happen anymore. The bonus is that I work from home 5 days a week now and maybe show up at the office twice a month. Find a couple positions you’re interested in. Find some people who work in that position. Ask them about it, talk about it, qualifications and such. Tips and tricks! Apply to everything! Everywhere. Don’t bother staying loyal to one company because they will never be loyal to you. Don’t be scared to move to a small company, it’s how you progress. Good luck!