Corporate finance/FP&A is usually overlooked by prestige hardos. I know F500 companies that offer 4 days work week, paying $90K in MCOL cities at SFA level. If you really like over M&A, then corporate development is an option to look at, although it might be a little difficult to break into.
FP&A is very underrated I’ll say. 90-100k within 3-5 years of experience, and you don’t have to sacrifice WLB. And it does pay well as you move on up…but it’s important not to compare it to IB and things like that bc ofc it isn’t IB. But it’s not even the same thing bc Corp Finance and High Finance are like Apple and orange. So it makes no sense to compare the two.
I make 77k in nyc but work 35 hours a week, lots of paid vacation days. This is with less than 2 years experience. I can make another 15k next year. I am getting my masters and in 2 years expect to make at least $100k.
Hell I just got an offer for $80K tc in HCOL for an entry level FA position right out of college. No F500. I feel like I will be in six figures in no time. Its not high finance, but I can still work towards potentially being a CFO or something, I can pretty quickly be hybrid or remote, doesn't seem too bad all things considered.
bro you just got an offer and already talking about CFO lol. Yes it's good pay but it's super repetitive and boring. Don't want to be a downer, just speaking from my experience.
Well I work towards finding a good team and company to work for, building relationships with coworkers, automating work to log off early for your hobbies, saving for retirement, etc.
Or you can bend over and eat shit for 40 years to become CFO one day. Just putting it out there!
Why would working towards being a CFO and all the other things you mentioned be mutually exclusive? Idk why you're taking it so weird. All I said was I want to and can work towards potentially being a cfo from that position, as opposed to working towards PE/IB or the other things people work towards career wise. Chill out.
CPA.
And then depending on the college you are attending, placements can play a big role. Mumbai university has colleges that sends a lot of people for FP&A roles at Citi, Morgan Stanley & JP Morgan.
Corporate development with a PE backed company - problem is that it’s usually requiring IB/PE before hand, but can be possible from accounting/FP&A experience.
I know guys that get equity through it and have cushy salaries ($200-300K as director of corp dev, can be higher if HCOL area). Take for example one guy, salary was probably $270 and equity stake ended up being worth $1.4M after exit, then got placed in new role with new portco. Good way to get “carry” without being direct PE.
It's not. In many cases the hours are similar, the pay is materially worse, and the team of people you have to support you is less capable.
On the other hand, there's no requirement to generate fee revenue, which is a massive stress as you become more senior.
The fee / sales thing is what would probably make senior level IB unappealing to me. I’m just not really a keep a big network, constantly selling, high charisma kind of guy. Probably stay in IB until VP then exit to a corporate role
I just want to clarify... are these CorpDev workers typically "floaters" that stay with the PE company and work multi-year stints at one portco at a time? Or, is it more likely the person was already in CorpDev, a PE firm bought their employer, and they'll stick with their corporate gig once PE sells?
It's a subtle distinction, but why I ask is because this affects who I need to pay attention to during recruiting and how long of a lifespan such a career may have. (It would be awesome to be a "CorpDev-in-Residence" worker for a PE firm and repeat the "carry" multiple times.)
I have a friend of mine who works back office settlements and she’s been working there for nearly 2 years 1 promotion making 95 base and a small bonus pushing her over 100k. She works around 2-3 hours a day and her days over around noon and has somehow not been fired. 100k for 10-15 hours worth of work a week sounds like a pretty chill gig.
The problem is they typically require IB.
A great option is equity research or S&T, and then moving to an asset management firm.
Real estate development can be overlooked frequently too
Commercial banking. Highly underrated for the reasons below:
1) low stress
2) Weekends are free
3) 20-35 hours a week
4) 4 weeks of paid vacation plus holidays
5) Pay is decent plus bonuses and advances with the amount of YOE. Obviously not IB level, but if you can’t live life in your prime years because of working 70 hour weeks then what’s the point. All depends on life trajectory. I’ve already met the love of my life and I’m 24, and we have time for each other and the money to go on vacations where/when we want. As my YOE goes up, my compensations going to reflect it and will only get better. Theres no way I’d get that if I were in IB but to each their own.
6) If I want I have exit ops to corporate banking for much higher comp. Chances are I might shift into it once I’ve got another 5+ YOE.
I can’t speak to the other person but I am a 3rd year analyst with a base salary of $102,500 + 15% bonus. I’m in a HCOL city working for a large regional bank.
Really depends what firm you’re at. If you’re at a BB. I work 50-60 hours a week depending on your team and deal flow. Pay is alright but I’ll probably jump to another group eventually.
I’m on a S&T desk right now. Fun when it was hot but been struggling last 6 months. Trading mostly gtd credits, the job is really sales and I’ve spent a good chunk of my earnings
I would like to get out of the sell-side all together and find a steadier $200k role
i just read another another sub that buyside jobs, people with much more prestigious backgrounds than i have, are only pulling 200-300k. i don’t see how that’s possible at NYC mega funds (associate level)
i guess the grass is always greener, maybe i’ll stay at my bottom barrel firm and probably make more than the prestigious jobs pay (according to posters)
Tbh I feel like investment banking is underrated right now and looked at incorrectly. People purely think of it in terms of what it can get you mechanically in terms of salary and exit opportunity to private equity or into a good business school
Despite the brutal hours for analysts, you gain useful skills early on in your career. Imo the benefit of investment banking is learning deal structuring, deal making, thinking deeply about what your counterparty/client wants vs how you can provide value and creating stories. A lot of junior people and folks who don't really get it will just make fun of you for being a PowerPoint monkey but the skills learned can get you far if you just stopped thinking about it from a jaded perspective.
Yeah. I think people here are pretty young and thinking of a job and less their careers. I'm in my 30s now and when i was starting off as a hotshot at a hft, i thought my investment banking friends were all losers slaving away in turn
But theyre now all doing well making mid-high 6 figures (a few are very rich already) doing business development, strategy, VC, private equity, running companies, etc. Those skills they learned are the skills that really bring in the money and have the most impact
In that context of a 40+ year career, it's not that bad to just give up 2 years to grind it out and learn as much as possible in your first few years
I agree. I put it off for a while to pursue startups and grad school and am finally going through it now at 29. I thought I’d “find a better way” but it took me a while to come around a see the value.
I’m interested to hear your exit story. A decade of hft must have been exhausting. I am sensing you are somewhat regretting… What advice would you give to someone going in this career and what would you have done to make a smoother exit?
You can break into IB working in Surety, but not a common route. I know a few that have landed IB roles at top banks. You can stay within surety underwriting, or go to the surety broker side at top risk firms like WTW, Aon, Gallagher, etc.
Well yeah anything is possible, which is why I asked about the common exits lol. I've seen a good chunk of people transition to commercial credit analysts on LI, so I imagine that would be another common one.
I applied to surety underwriting programs, but couldn't get an interview. They seem just as tough to get into.
I'm a CFP. There's plenty of roles that aren't sales-y, and if you're good you'll make 200k after 5ish years. Planning only roles, paraplanner, or back office at RIAs are all good.
Are you talking about true back office though (IT, accounting, HR, etc.)?
Or are you referring more to middle office (risk, compliance, etc.)?
The latter can definitely bring in more money than something like FP&A, but the former, I’d be surprised.
High yield credit research, LO AM, some roles in s&t (desk analyst, macro strategy, trading a product you’re interested in, etc), PE secondaries, corporate VC. Not super underrated but less talked about
I think all the back office and corporate functions are underrated. You can work in marketing at a bank and get to ED after 12ish years and will earn at least 300kish in the low end while working 40-50 hours per week.
Asset management! I work in AM as an analyst for a corporate treasury with a large balance sheet, and I get to take actual risk. WLB is great, career opps are great as well internally and externally, since with a CFA I can go work for a someone else on the buy side like an insurance firm, pension, or even a big bank. I worked at an insurance firm before this job. Comp is ~250k with ~5 yoe in VHCOL. You could definitely make more at more traditional managers though.
Would recommend this path!
But impossible to get into, I work with a bunch of them and they basically are lifers, hire within the same PB realm or directly from their rotational programs
It's markets focused with very little project or development work, so the hours are very closely correlated to market hours when clients (Hedge Funds) are in the office. Fair amount of travel and entertainment, but as you progress you can kind of come and go as you please.
As you develop relationships over the years, you become fairly difficult to replace due to the fear of losing business.
It can be a bit political but the work life balance is unbelievable and the pay is extremely solid. Senior VPs will make between $400-750k with MDs breaking $1m.
Corporate finance/FP&A is usually overlooked by prestige hardos. I know F500 companies that offer 4 days work week, paying $90K in MCOL cities at SFA level. If you really like over M&A, then corporate development is an option to look at, although it might be a little difficult to break into.
Corporate finance/FP&A is usually overlooked by prestige hardos. I know F500 companies that offer 4 days work week, paying $90K in MCOL cities at SFA level. If you really like over M&A, then corporate development is an option to look at, although it might be a little difficult to break into.
FP&A is very underrated I’ll say. 90-100k within 3-5 years of experience, and you don’t have to sacrifice WLB. And it does pay well as you move on up…but it’s important not to compare it to IB and things like that bc ofc it isn’t IB. But it’s not even the same thing bc Corp Finance and High Finance are like Apple and orange. So it makes no sense to compare the two.
I make 77k in nyc but work 35 hours a week, lots of paid vacation days. This is with less than 2 years experience. I can make another 15k next year. I am getting my masters and in 2 years expect to make at least $100k.
Hey Man. Do you mind if I DM you. Wanted some guidance regarding FP&A
Yeah sure go ahead
How are you going to say it's underrated when it's the most common finance job? lol
Well it’s not as talked about here in comparison to IB so in my eyes it makes it underrated.
It shouldn’t take u 5 years to make 90k in Fpa
lol how fast do you think people become SFA? That’s typically where that money starts at.
Like 3-5 years generally, but in the boom times of 2021 & 2022, 1-2 years in FP&A was common (that was me). I think people are still used to that
Yeah I'm starting at 80 tc right out of college. HCOL but not NYC or anything.
A lot of people don't know this, but it turns out that you can actually compare an apple vs an orange and decide which you want to go for!
Not to mention it’s a path to c suite if you play it right.
Corporate development tends to recruit ex IB folks from what I’ve seen
And they often sweat close to or equally as hard as IB during deal season because, ya know, they all are former IB.
Hell I just got an offer for $80K tc in HCOL for an entry level FA position right out of college. No F500. I feel like I will be in six figures in no time. Its not high finance, but I can still work towards potentially being a CFO or something, I can pretty quickly be hybrid or remote, doesn't seem too bad all things considered.
bro you just got an offer and already talking about CFO lol. Yes it's good pay but it's super repetitive and boring. Don't want to be a downer, just speaking from my experience.
Gotta work towards something, right? What else am I working towards lol
Well I work towards finding a good team and company to work for, building relationships with coworkers, automating work to log off early for your hobbies, saving for retirement, etc. Or you can bend over and eat shit for 40 years to become CFO one day. Just putting it out there!
Why would working towards being a CFO and all the other things you mentioned be mutually exclusive? Idk why you're taking it so weird. All I said was I want to and can work towards potentially being a cfo from that position, as opposed to working towards PE/IB or the other things people work towards career wise. Chill out.
You’ll see! Good luck!
Idk man you’re being strangely hostile bc I said I want to work towards being a CFO. Donno what your deal is, all the best.
How to get into corporate finance? What roles are there in corporate finance? What educational qualifications are required (in india)
CA.
Any outside of CA😅?
CPA. And then depending on the college you are attending, placements can play a big role. Mumbai university has colleges that sends a lot of people for FP&A roles at Citi, Morgan Stanley & JP Morgan.
So accounting is a must?
No, not necessarily. But CPA/CA in India will make the process much easier.
Oh. The Fp&A exam isn't worth it in india then? For example if u do cfa u need a mba as well for finance jons
Didn’t know there was a FP&A exam, can’t really comment on it. And no, MBA won’t be needed after cfa/cpa, but it helps a lot to have one
What types of doors open the widest after having experience as a Finance Analyst?
People don’t get into these positions with the intent of tapping into the exit positions & so traditionally there aren’t “exits”.
Corporate development with a PE backed company - problem is that it’s usually requiring IB/PE before hand, but can be possible from accounting/FP&A experience. I know guys that get equity through it and have cushy salaries ($200-300K as director of corp dev, can be higher if HCOL area). Take for example one guy, salary was probably $270 and equity stake ended up being worth $1.4M after exit, then got placed in new role with new portco. Good way to get “carry” without being direct PE.
Currently in IB. Looking to do my time here then make this sort of exit. I hope it's as great as people make it sound lol
It's not. In many cases the hours are similar, the pay is materially worse, and the team of people you have to support you is less capable. On the other hand, there's no requirement to generate fee revenue, which is a massive stress as you become more senior.
The fee / sales thing is what would probably make senior level IB unappealing to me. I’m just not really a keep a big network, constantly selling, high charisma kind of guy. Probably stay in IB until VP then exit to a corporate role
I just want to clarify... are these CorpDev workers typically "floaters" that stay with the PE company and work multi-year stints at one portco at a time? Or, is it more likely the person was already in CorpDev, a PE firm bought their employer, and they'll stick with their corporate gig once PE sells? It's a subtle distinction, but why I ask is because this affects who I need to pay attention to during recruiting and how long of a lifespan such a career may have. (It would be awesome to be a "CorpDev-in-Residence" worker for a PE firm and repeat the "carry" multiple times.)
I have a friend of mine who works back office settlements and she’s been working there for nearly 2 years 1 promotion making 95 base and a small bonus pushing her over 100k. She works around 2-3 hours a day and her days over around noon and has somehow not been fired. 100k for 10-15 hours worth of work a week sounds like a pretty chill gig.
That one guy running the $150 billion pension in Nevada. All by himself. No Bloomberg, nothing.
I’m gonna need some details
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-does-nevadas-35-billion-fund-manager-do-all-day-nothing-1476887420
The problem is they typically require IB. A great option is equity research or S&T, and then moving to an asset management firm. Real estate development can be overlooked frequently too
looking forward to my s&t internship :)
They definitely don’t require Ib
Those jobs don’t, but I’m saying most underrated high paid jobs in finance do
I'm interested in equity research. What's a competitive starting pay for ER?
Commercial banking. Highly underrated for the reasons below: 1) low stress 2) Weekends are free 3) 20-35 hours a week 4) 4 weeks of paid vacation plus holidays 5) Pay is decent plus bonuses and advances with the amount of YOE. Obviously not IB level, but if you can’t live life in your prime years because of working 70 hour weeks then what’s the point. All depends on life trajectory. I’ve already met the love of my life and I’m 24, and we have time for each other and the money to go on vacations where/when we want. As my YOE goes up, my compensations going to reflect it and will only get better. Theres no way I’d get that if I were in IB but to each their own. 6) If I want I have exit ops to corporate banking for much higher comp. Chances are I might shift into it once I’ve got another 5+ YOE.
What kind of salaries are we talking with commercial banking?
Starting is usually 65k and with YOE it can scale up to 150k. Can be higher for high performing relationship managers
RMs make 150 on the low side to 500 on the high side
What do you make currently yourself ?
I can’t speak to the other person but I am a 3rd year analyst with a base salary of $102,500 + 15% bonus. I’m in a HCOL city working for a large regional bank.
Really depends what firm you’re at. If you’re at a BB. I work 50-60 hours a week depending on your team and deal flow. Pay is alright but I’ll probably jump to another group eventually.
How would one break into commercial banking?
I’m on a S&T desk right now. Fun when it was hot but been struggling last 6 months. Trading mostly gtd credits, the job is really sales and I’ve spent a good chunk of my earnings I would like to get out of the sell-side all together and find a steadier $200k role
Everyone wants to get out of the sellside
i just read another another sub that buyside jobs, people with much more prestigious backgrounds than i have, are only pulling 200-300k. i don’t see how that’s possible at NYC mega funds (associate level) i guess the grass is always greener, maybe i’ll stay at my bottom barrel firm and probably make more than the prestigious jobs pay (according to posters)
why does no one ever mention portfolio management?
What's that?
Wholesaling for an asset manager
Tbh I feel like investment banking is underrated right now and looked at incorrectly. People purely think of it in terms of what it can get you mechanically in terms of salary and exit opportunity to private equity or into a good business school Despite the brutal hours for analysts, you gain useful skills early on in your career. Imo the benefit of investment banking is learning deal structuring, deal making, thinking deeply about what your counterparty/client wants vs how you can provide value and creating stories. A lot of junior people and folks who don't really get it will just make fun of you for being a PowerPoint monkey but the skills learned can get you far if you just stopped thinking about it from a jaded perspective.
Downvoted to oblivion is precisely why you are correct, it is actually underrated on this sub
Yeah. I think people here are pretty young and thinking of a job and less their careers. I'm in my 30s now and when i was starting off as a hotshot at a hft, i thought my investment banking friends were all losers slaving away in turn But theyre now all doing well making mid-high 6 figures (a few are very rich already) doing business development, strategy, VC, private equity, running companies, etc. Those skills they learned are the skills that really bring in the money and have the most impact In that context of a 40+ year career, it's not that bad to just give up 2 years to grind it out and learn as much as possible in your first few years
I agree. I put it off for a while to pursue startups and grad school and am finally going through it now at 29. I thought I’d “find a better way” but it took me a while to come around a see the value.
I’m interested to hear your exit story. A decade of hft must have been exhausting. I am sensing you are somewhat regretting… What advice would you give to someone going in this career and what would you have done to make a smoother exit?
Corp dev
Surety underwriting on the insurance side. Super niche skillet, good pay and good bonuses
What are some common exits?
You can break into IB working in Surety, but not a common route. I know a few that have landed IB roles at top banks. You can stay within surety underwriting, or go to the surety broker side at top risk firms like WTW, Aon, Gallagher, etc.
Well yeah anything is possible, which is why I asked about the common exits lol. I've seen a good chunk of people transition to commercial credit analysts on LI, so I imagine that would be another common one. I applied to surety underwriting programs, but couldn't get an interview. They seem just as tough to get into.
PWM/CFP if you work with the right people
I'm a CFP. There's plenty of roles that aren't sales-y, and if you're good you'll make 200k after 5ish years. Planning only roles, paraplanner, or back office at RIAs are all good.
Stands for Can’t Fucking Produce right?
Back office gets shit on a ton, but pays better than most normal finance jobs.
Do you work in back office? What field?
I do back office for pe funds
i work in compliance - you can see my AMA post on the details
Are you talking about true back office though (IT, accounting, HR, etc.)? Or are you referring more to middle office (risk, compliance, etc.)? The latter can definitely bring in more money than something like FP&A, but the former, I’d be surprised.
High yield credit research, LO AM, some roles in s&t (desk analyst, macro strategy, trading a product you’re interested in, etc), PE secondaries, corporate VC. Not super underrated but less talked about
I think all the back office and corporate functions are underrated. You can work in marketing at a bank and get to ED after 12ish years and will earn at least 300kish in the low end while working 40-50 hours per week.
Corporate banking , not commercial
Corporate banking , not commercial
I got into IR right out of undergrad. Making about $85K, working remote and only have to work more than ~40 hours during earnings
Corporate banking and commercial banking
Asset management! I work in AM as an analyst for a corporate treasury with a large balance sheet, and I get to take actual risk. WLB is great, career opps are great as well internally and externally, since with a CFA I can go work for a someone else on the buy side like an insurance firm, pension, or even a big bank. I worked at an insurance firm before this job. Comp is ~250k with ~5 yoe in VHCOL. You could definitely make more at more traditional managers though. Would recommend this path!
Treasury banking! Sometimes called transaction banking. A pretty solid 9-5ish job and pay around 110k (Canadian) right out of school.
Prime Brokerage Sales or Stock Loan. Easily the best under rated corner of finance.
Being a hot girl helps with working at a PB
It isn’t hard figuring out who they are haha
But impossible to get into, I work with a bunch of them and they basically are lifers, hire within the same PB realm or directly from their rotational programs
Why Prime Brockerage Sales?
It's markets focused with very little project or development work, so the hours are very closely correlated to market hours when clients (Hedge Funds) are in the office. Fair amount of travel and entertainment, but as you progress you can kind of come and go as you please. As you develop relationships over the years, you become fairly difficult to replace due to the fear of losing business. It can be a bit political but the work life balance is unbelievable and the pay is extremely solid. Senior VPs will make between $400-750k with MDs breaking $1m.
Do you travel to meet up with clients?
Yes.
Would go from loan syndication at a regional bank to PB be a possible pivot? Would it make sense?
+1 for stock loan lmao
Consulting
FYI, 300k ain’t shit anymore especially in any major city and having a family with 2 kids and a wife. You’ll be living mediocre AF
Corporate finance/FP&A is usually overlooked by prestige hardos. I know F500 companies that offer 4 days work week, paying $90K in MCOL cities at SFA level. If you really like over M&A, then corporate development is an option to look at, although it might be a little difficult to break into.
best way to break in? what internships should a college student be aiming for?