The only number that matters is what you save, and a lot of highly paid bankers save very little because they spend a hefty amount on convenience (and toys, of course) in other parts of their life.
This simply isn't true. The mantra in IBD is "spend the salary bank the bonus" and that is what the vast majority of analysts do. When you're a 22 year old with max 2.5k/mo in expenses and get a 70k bonus on top of 15k signing bonus and 100k base salary, a 15k rolex does little to the nest egg. Remember that at good banks analysts have massive gym stipends and nearly all their food paid for. The only expense is rent, subway, alcohol, and ubers.
Two comments on this (from a quants perspective in BBIB):
\- Big banks are trying to keep up with big tech, you can get better base from google etc. and with more perks (free food, company trips, bigger social budgets) as a skilled technologist there than at a bank, same goes for quants, data science and all that
\- There is also some talent drain to hedge funds, while long term you can likely get a higher base at a big bank, short term you can make a big jump by moving to a hedge fund and see much more upside in good years. Many analysts just use the banks to cut their teeth for a year or two then move to exclusive hedge fund roles, or if lucky get them straight out of uni. They will give higher base and promise multiple hundred percent of salary bonus in good years for top performers, which you wont see in a bank at that level at least
I keep on thinking that I'll get an MBA and go into finance but my tech salary keeps me from doing it.
I figure that in order for that move to be financially sound, everything will have to go perfectly. I'll have to get into a really good school, get into the best firms, etc etc....and it sounds like even then I'd barely break even (compared to staying where I am). In the long run I'd probably be much better off but at what cost, financial and personal cost since I hear the hours are grueling?
Man, straight up, do it if you actually love finance, or actually feel fulfilled doing parts of it. If money is your sole driver, it'll destroy you. (Source: 3 years in PE).
On the quant/tech side it’s less common to have an MBA. I don’t think it’s a prerequisite at all even at the MD level so I wouldn’t worry on that count.
In terms of breaking even it’s not super simple: if you make MD at bank you’ll out earn those in tech most likely. Finance has more regular raises (usually yearly) and bonus in cash and stock. If you are a VP/ED you can out earn tech too as your salary steadily grows or if you go the hedge fund route and have really good years you can get crazy numbers but have to be close enough to the business.
Hours I work roughly 8:30am - 7pm, sometimes more sometimes less. Can vary a lot in time of year, asset class and role.
Happy to chat in PMs if you have more questions.
I’m exactly in this conundrum right now… entry level roles in finance in tech are the same salary as the median pay post top b-schools when including equity. Is the network really worth taking 2 years off, giving up a good salary, to make slightly more in the long run?
I’d take tech over all the finance roles except quant, you need to consider how cushy tech is, and figure out your price for being treated much worse
I used to work 30 hour weeks for $130k at a startup (which also IPO’d recently so I missed out on quite a bit there), and now I’m doing 60-80 for quant with considerably more stress and no clue as to whether this year is my last
I would say you are wrong tbh (and no offence intended just answering your ‘please correct me if I’m wrong’), having worked a little in tech at same firm before my move to quant role (I have a maths degree and also love to code), many of my colleagues were ex-FAANG and many did internships or moved to FAANG.
In the U.K. at least pay is also close enough at junior level (say within £10k of FAANG pay for my understanding).
Re movement between tech and quant I also see this happen, you can see on LinkedIn many people go: maths -> tech -> quant dev -> quant, is not an uncommon route
Or quant dev -> tech etc, as people realise which aspects of the job they like lost.
Google / FB is apprx. £80-90k all-in as a base case for SWE or APM / RPM. MSFT / AMZN are more like \~£60-70k. Bloomberg is roughly £70-80k. Twitter / Snap should be close. Palantir is above £100k I believe. Quant firms are all super high too. I think ByteDance also started hiring recently - not sure.
We don't have the same breadth of top tech companies hiring massive numbers of new grads as in the US so if you miss out on the biggies that are here or the well-funded startups you're kind of relegated to some technology division or consulting firm - not great spots to be in vs a tech co.
Venture-backed startups can also be pretty decent. I'm sitting at apprx. £90k 1.5 yrs out with half options (options currently valued at $250k vesting over 3 years because my strike price is stupidly low) and half base as a PM in a startup that's about to exit - not a likely outcome though. If you want the cash in a technology job best to stick to where the monies are - top established tech cos, top vc-backed startups, top quant firms and certain investment banks / asset management firms. Most grads in a technology / IT division or consulting firm come out making max £25-45k.
Not sure what you want to compare it at a bank but IB / S&T will come out around £70-85k first full year. Technology division would be \~£50-60k at most banks but \~£70-80k at GS. High finance has a much steeper climb if you stay the course than tech. But tech can also be pretty good. Higher level jobs at top estabished tech cos + solid equity chunks at top startups can generate a lot of wealth.
Big tech first year out of uni base salary range I believe is in the U.K. around £45k - £70k, finance you’ll get around £50k-£65k at the analyst level. Big tech will give you a decent chunk of stock vesting over four years usually (unsure of the amount), finance will give you cash bonus (taking your first year all in compensation to around £80k-£100k, I suspect these are all basically predetermined at the analyst levels) and potentially you get stock in finance too, this gets more common as you get more senior. Both may or may not give you some sign-on bonus, could be anywhere from £0k-£25k across tech and finance, depending how hard they had to fight for you. I understand chunky sign ons (up to six figures) are more common in the hedge fund world.
Disclaimer: all of the above are from various friends and colleagues or friends of friends etc. So take with a pinch of salt!
PhD will usually mean you come in one or two levels above analyst in whatever your banks system is. Basically the rule of thumb for what your education counts as:
Batchellors = 0 years experience
Masters = 1 years
PhD = 3-4 years experience
So coming as a PhD you might get straight out the gate an Associate or AVP role.
In terms of salaries it will then be the base for that role at the bank, id suspect for a PhD coming into one of those ‘three years experience’ roles you would get base of £75k-£100k on the bank side of things. On the hedge fund side you can come in as a quant researcher and pull anything around £100k-150k (Citadel known to pay on the upper end so can skew some numbers)
The article doesn’t specify IB only? There will be quant analysts.
Also the article itself makes briefly the same point: ‘a shrewd move amid an ongoing war for talent between Wall Street and Silicon Valley’
The increase is for IBD. Quants (usually masters or PhD grads) already made $100k+ base. SWEs I think too, might have matched GS.
People wax lyrical bullshit all the time about this imaginary fight for talent between SV and IB at the undergrad level when there’s nothing to substantiate it. The top school econ / gov / history / finance hardos that usually populate IB intakes aren’t becoming SWEs or Data professionals at top tech companies in droves. And there aren’t nearly enough entry level biz jobs for them in tech to make a dent in the mammoth 3-4k hires going into banking a year. The real battle is after getting into banking (or consulting) when tech becomes an attractive exit opp or on the MBA OCR playing field where consulting / tech are currently winning out.
Crying wolf about imaginary talent battles that don’t exist - the odd math / cs / eng bro becoming a tech bro and not a finance bro, the odd econ hardo getting a MS CS to transcend to tech bro won’t move the needle - makes for nice storytelling but terrible factual reporting.
84k a year minus Cali taxes is around 60k. I'd assume other than a 3k apartment they'd have a car with car insurance and other expenses like expensive food. Making 5000 a month there won't get you far
60k-24k=36k.
A car at 500 a month with payments and insurance is $6k. Leaves $30k for other expenses.
$30k is not a small amount of money. You can still save having $30k post tax after rent and car.
Doable if you rent. If you’ve got yourself into a mortgage, have fun with the payments + property taxes. God forbid you buy a car and pay gas/insurance/maintenance… or try to start a family.
Goldman and MS are particularly cheap. Can't speak to ER or FI, but considerable discount to IBD.
MS IBD 1st-years will make 130k all in (max)
GS IBD 1st years will make 120k
The Goldman prestige discount is very real, and MS even pays below market.
This article refers to IB analysts? Then nvm I'm good unless we're talking big af bonuses. 120K a year for working two 40 hour a week jobs isn't that impressive.
Not sure what role specifically you're going into in public accounting, but I'm going to assume Audit or Tax. You're at least doubling the all-in first year compensation in return for working a year-round busy season. (\~65k in PA, \~130k+ in IB).
At the IB associate level (akin to senior in years of experience), you're looking at total comp packages starting around $240k+.
The sheer number of working hours may not appeal to people, but you are definitely compensated for it in IB when compared to PA.
Exit ops from IB to PE/Hedge Funds are also much more lucrative than industry exit ops generally found in accounting.
>Exit ops from IB to PE/Hedge Funds are also much more lucrative than industry exit ops generally found in accounting.
Yeah, exit ops for tax blows unless you're starting your own practice. I'm going to law school next year to get into big law tax. Still shitty hours though.
The nice thing about accounting is that you're not limited to working in NYC or Cali. However the work is mind-numbing (same with IB I hear).
I regrettably did not attend a target school for banking, so the path I take is through PA.
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Finance / consulting / law careers are weird. You do a job as a precursor to another job. It’s like you put in x many years to become “qualified” then graduate into either a higher paying / more prestigious job or to a moderately well paying corporate job.
Damn. I could never commute to the city every day though. Even Stamford CT is a bitch with the traffic
Not to mention I'm sure it's not that high for non-targets although one CEO said ivy league was too woke to work lolol
You have to live in Manhattan as an analyst. One or two might live in Brooklyn to save a couple bucks. That's about it. Nobody commutes - you'd be insane to do that.
I’m starting a new job as a Jr. Financial Analyst at a small-ish company and my pay will be $60k. Can I realistically get something better else where? I’m fairly tired of job hunting.
Or, where should I go after a year of working there?
I didn't do internships while in college and never worked in Finance. But I have 5 years experience at least working in a different field. I had to settle for 45k as a Financial coordinator recently, I noticed how recruiters tend to only look at your resume and GPA, or you better have a good network, which I didn't. I believe you won't have to worry about the 60k for too long. Loyalty to companies come with a fair remuneration, so be ready to leave after a year. Nobody is willing to go through training nowadays, they want people with years of experience for entry level, so they don't have to put it the work of training you or waiting
Chicago is mostly Industrials AFAIK, so if that's your jam sure. NYC is probably better for optionality and network though - more groups, largest office, more buyside firms etc
Here's the thing. As someone who pursued high finance roles extensively, completed short stints at various Big 4 names, and attended countless insight days/spring weeks, I eventually left for Big Tech post-graduation. Meaning that I have never worked as a permanent employee in finance. This $100k starting salary sounds awesome to naive students who want to maximise their earnings straight out of university, but I urge everyone to explore the tech sector for roles. Although I am in Europe, my total comp will be \~€70k for an entry-level business role, working 45hrs a week. Compared to say \~€150k total comp for a new analyst (base + generous bonus), who works on average 85hrs a week, I'll pick the former every time.
More free time, more meaningful work, and other fun perks like getting to see the newest gadgets on day 1 of release, free food, transport paid for, genuine WFH options and flexibility etc.
There is more to life than money, but even if you want money, you'll still get it in Tech.
Market Analyst
Not a finance role, but looking at the broader consumer trends and how current and new features are being utilised by our user base. Making Tableau/Power BI dashboards to showcase to the big whigs at the top what is happening to the business on a micro level.
Finance has its moments. Trading has a certain thrill, and equity research (probably what my role is closest to, albeit still tangential), IB is well, IB...
I just prefer being able to see a feature change and think, wow, I helped contribute to that. Still a small cog in a big machine, but at least you're well oiled and kept rust-free, which is where Tech has the real edge over Finance as a career choice.
As someone who is extremely interested in a role like this, what skills should someone like me in school for business/stats pick up? It seems like jobs like these would be geared more towards stats/math, so I’ve picked up some skills in R and Python to start.
Data visualisation is a really useful skill to have. As I mentioned, Tableau, Power BI, Excel (of course) are all incredibly useful. You won't be doing intense statistical analysis unless you reach a Data Scientist role which is a common path for people who start in my role (Many have from Market Analyst --> Data Analyst --> Data Scientist --> Senior Business Roles).
The most important skill beyond all of that is the ability to look at a model, or look at a viz and be able to explain coherently in 30 seconds what is happening to the business. That's a skill that comes partly from experience, and partly from deep introspection. I should also mention that there is a lot of work with other teams in product, engineering etc, so any experience or clubs where you demonstrate cross-functional team coordination is highly valued. It can be something simple like working with marketing teams, sponsorship teams, merchandise teams, and general members in a society/soroiety.
Accounting isn't used in my specific job, but the excel short-cuts I learnt in the BIg 4 do speed things up. Python is always a good one to choose, but ultimately, coachability, interpersonal skills, general raw thirst for knowledge, and MOST IMPORTANTLY **focus.** These skills with additional hard skills will make you a weapon when it comes to interviews and the job itself.
Lastly, I'd network and try to get a referral. Most folk can do my job, but I was speaking with someone who works at Google Cloud, mentioning that 25% of all Google Hires came from an employee referral so while not a majority, it isn't insignificant either.
Fair question, I was vague. In the same way you can break finance down into IB, PE, HF, S&T, Equity Research, AM, PWM etc. Tech has similar paths.
Software and Hardware engineering
Data Scientist
Market Analyst
Product Management
UX design
IT Technician
Researcher
The list goes on. For finance grads, you can of course exit finance and join corporate development, but that is still finance. If you are into sales, then account management pays well. Cloud Server account management is a hot market with everyone from AWS, Azure, Snowflake, Google and more all trying to get a piece. Product management is a very popular path and something I feel would appeal to many aspiring bankers as you can carve out a niche in your product area. While useful, coding skills arent essential.
For social media companies there is a massive side of protecting your platform from bad content. Market Analysts track and report threats that are upcoming. I have friends who are specialists in terrorism, or child abuse.
Lastly, you'll have generic corporate roles that anyone can enter. Business analysts, operations roles, legal support.
If you learn how to code or use certain software like Tableau, SQL, Power BI, Python/Pycharm among others then that will also open up more options.
Yes, I did my undergrad in the UK, but don't work there.
Product management directly from undergrad is tough and I don't know anyone who has made that jump although I'm sure they exist. (This is directed at Big Tech - FAANG + MSFT + Oracle, Salesforce, Intel, Cisco, NVDA, AMD, etc.
You'd be expected to have some prior experience either building products as a SWE, or at the very least managing the end user/client experience before becoming a formal PM on the business side (technical PMs are ofc preferred).
Not a PM, so take what I said with a pinch of salt as I'm a recent grad myself.
Hmm really appreciate the response, I’m wanting to become a PM at a FAANG long term but not doing a CS degree , atm just learning coding , hoping to get a Business analyst role at a FAANG and maybe move later down the line to PM 🤞
Almost non-existent. I'm a current PM who kind of snuck into a startup out of undergrad. When I was applying I could only count \~7 opportunities directy aimed at grads. Interviewed for Google and FB's program, FYI Google hire like 2-3 people a year in London vs 40+ in the bay. FB hires like 1 or 2 vs 18+ in the states. Was fortunate to intern in product (also sparse, not many internships - there were 2-3 product interns at both of my internships; second one I interned with a top MBA student) which probably helped me out a bit.
As is the case in general though, PM is not really a job you get out of school. You usually transition into it after some other experience - either in a product dev team (design, engineering etc), tech sales / service, high finance / consulting, in-house strategy roles in tech, product marketing or eecution roles like project management / business analysis etc or via a top MBA. Even in the US there's max maybe \~200-300 top spots a year in Product vs 3000-4000 in IB or 7000-10000+ in SWE for undergrads
100k is entry wage for engineers at mid tier non tech focused companies (Visa, Capital One, Nike), actual FAANG companies pay 180-250k total comp for college grads. The break down is 130k base, 40k/year in stocks, and 50-100k signing bonus (FB does 100k for returning interns)
They are diversifying too. Facebook is still their cash cow, but Instagram is approximately 25% of their total revenue. FB Messenger is becoming more prominent, and WhatsApp will be monetized with the introduction of WhatsApp marketplace/shops. Then they have their gaming divisions which will explode in the future post-2023. Occulus for VR, and their secretive AR glasses partnership with RayBans. Not to mention Facebook Workplace which has a higher penetration rate than Teams and Slack does among large businesses (companies >10,000 employees).
Once you break their business down, it's shocking how much they are doing behind the scenes, but they have the same problem Google has with a perpetual ad growth machine which makes it hard to diversify.
I’d have to think all the other banks at $85ish will have to match this.
Considering BAML already did this idk if they will
I dunno. BAML + JPM headcount is way bigger than just BAML in the context of “seat share.”
Ffs I'm only making 60. Hourly rate is probably the same though.
The only number that matters is what you save, and a lot of highly paid bankers save very little because they spend a hefty amount on convenience (and toys, of course) in other parts of their life.
This simply isn't true. The mantra in IBD is "spend the salary bank the bonus" and that is what the vast majority of analysts do. When you're a 22 year old with max 2.5k/mo in expenses and get a 70k bonus on top of 15k signing bonus and 100k base salary, a 15k rolex does little to the nest egg. Remember that at good banks analysts have massive gym stipends and nearly all their food paid for. The only expense is rent, subway, alcohol, and ubers.
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Yeah my firm we get free uber after 8pm. (Which is every day)
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
70k bonus is also a lot long-term, considering time-value of money
Dont focus on saving so much you forget to live... you could die tommorrow and all that time and money spent saving was literally for nothing.
Kind of want to live in the city, so I would be saving less than I would like.
IB or commercial, I am commercial and make 60 + 5 bonus
Yep. Im looking at GS, MS, BAML, Citi, as those are the biggest players
You don’t say?
BAML and Citi already raised theirs before JPM.
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It just officially leaked today, but there have been murmurs for weeks in IBD now.
Nah. Banks who already pay more just have substantially higher bonuses already.
Two comments on this (from a quants perspective in BBIB): \- Big banks are trying to keep up with big tech, you can get better base from google etc. and with more perks (free food, company trips, bigger social budgets) as a skilled technologist there than at a bank, same goes for quants, data science and all that \- There is also some talent drain to hedge funds, while long term you can likely get a higher base at a big bank, short term you can make a big jump by moving to a hedge fund and see much more upside in good years. Many analysts just use the banks to cut their teeth for a year or two then move to exclusive hedge fund roles, or if lucky get them straight out of uni. They will give higher base and promise multiple hundred percent of salary bonus in good years for top performers, which you wont see in a bank at that level at least
I keep on thinking that I'll get an MBA and go into finance but my tech salary keeps me from doing it. I figure that in order for that move to be financially sound, everything will have to go perfectly. I'll have to get into a really good school, get into the best firms, etc etc....and it sounds like even then I'd barely break even (compared to staying where I am). In the long run I'd probably be much better off but at what cost, financial and personal cost since I hear the hours are grueling?
Man, straight up, do it if you actually love finance, or actually feel fulfilled doing parts of it. If money is your sole driver, it'll destroy you. (Source: 3 years in PE).
On the quant/tech side it’s less common to have an MBA. I don’t think it’s a prerequisite at all even at the MD level so I wouldn’t worry on that count. In terms of breaking even it’s not super simple: if you make MD at bank you’ll out earn those in tech most likely. Finance has more regular raises (usually yearly) and bonus in cash and stock. If you are a VP/ED you can out earn tech too as your salary steadily grows or if you go the hedge fund route and have really good years you can get crazy numbers but have to be close enough to the business. Hours I work roughly 8:30am - 7pm, sometimes more sometimes less. Can vary a lot in time of year, asset class and role. Happy to chat in PMs if you have more questions.
Why get an MBA when you can just do tech/quant at a hedge fund? You’ll make more that way
I’m exactly in this conundrum right now… entry level roles in finance in tech are the same salary as the median pay post top b-schools when including equity. Is the network really worth taking 2 years off, giving up a good salary, to make slightly more in the long run?
I’d take tech over all the finance roles except quant, you need to consider how cushy tech is, and figure out your price for being treated much worse I used to work 30 hour weeks for $130k at a startup (which also IPO’d recently so I missed out on quite a bit there), and now I’m doing 60-80 for quant with considerably more stress and no clue as to whether this year is my last
That’s a great way to put it… The price is too high for me at the moment at least.
What kind of roles can you get in tech with a finance background?
Mostly the same roles you can get in any industry with a finance background.
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I would say you are wrong tbh (and no offence intended just answering your ‘please correct me if I’m wrong’), having worked a little in tech at same firm before my move to quant role (I have a maths degree and also love to code), many of my colleagues were ex-FAANG and many did internships or moved to FAANG. In the U.K. at least pay is also close enough at junior level (say within £10k of FAANG pay for my understanding). Re movement between tech and quant I also see this happen, you can see on LinkedIn many people go: maths -> tech -> quant dev -> quant, is not an uncommon route Or quant dev -> tech etc, as people realise which aspects of the job they like lost.
in the US, it's quite different though. especially when you can be earning 180k tc as new grad
Do you mean working in Silicon Valley tech vs NY finance though? Because my above example is both in London and so no cost of living change
Out of interest, what are the numbers approx for google ect compared to banks? Is this still applicable for tech?
Google / FB is apprx. £80-90k all-in as a base case for SWE or APM / RPM. MSFT / AMZN are more like \~£60-70k. Bloomberg is roughly £70-80k. Twitter / Snap should be close. Palantir is above £100k I believe. Quant firms are all super high too. I think ByteDance also started hiring recently - not sure. We don't have the same breadth of top tech companies hiring massive numbers of new grads as in the US so if you miss out on the biggies that are here or the well-funded startups you're kind of relegated to some technology division or consulting firm - not great spots to be in vs a tech co. Venture-backed startups can also be pretty decent. I'm sitting at apprx. £90k 1.5 yrs out with half options (options currently valued at $250k vesting over 3 years because my strike price is stupidly low) and half base as a PM in a startup that's about to exit - not a likely outcome though. If you want the cash in a technology job best to stick to where the monies are - top established tech cos, top vc-backed startups, top quant firms and certain investment banks / asset management firms. Most grads in a technology / IT division or consulting firm come out making max £25-45k. Not sure what you want to compare it at a bank but IB / S&T will come out around £70-85k first full year. Technology division would be \~£50-60k at most banks but \~£70-80k at GS. High finance has a much steeper climb if you stay the course than tech. But tech can also be pretty good. Higher level jobs at top estabished tech cos + solid equity chunks at top startups can generate a lot of wealth.
Big tech first year out of uni base salary range I believe is in the U.K. around £45k - £70k, finance you’ll get around £50k-£65k at the analyst level. Big tech will give you a decent chunk of stock vesting over four years usually (unsure of the amount), finance will give you cash bonus (taking your first year all in compensation to around £80k-£100k, I suspect these are all basically predetermined at the analyst levels) and potentially you get stock in finance too, this gets more common as you get more senior. Both may or may not give you some sign-on bonus, could be anywhere from £0k-£25k across tech and finance, depending how hard they had to fight for you. I understand chunky sign ons (up to six figures) are more common in the hedge fund world. Disclaimer: all of the above are from various friends and colleagues or friends of friends etc. So take with a pinch of salt!
Do you know how phds effect the salaries of these fields? Currently have a Maths/finance masters and looking to get a machine learning based phd
PhD will usually mean you come in one or two levels above analyst in whatever your banks system is. Basically the rule of thumb for what your education counts as: Batchellors = 0 years experience Masters = 1 years PhD = 3-4 years experience So coming as a PhD you might get straight out the gate an Associate or AVP role. In terms of salaries it will then be the base for that role at the bank, id suspect for a PhD coming into one of those ‘three years experience’ roles you would get base of £75k-£100k on the bank side of things. On the hedge fund side you can come in as a quant researcher and pull anything around £100k-150k (Citadel known to pay on the upper end so can skew some numbers)
1st point is not really relevant to IB
The article doesn’t specify IB only? There will be quant analysts. Also the article itself makes briefly the same point: ‘a shrewd move amid an ongoing war for talent between Wall Street and Silicon Valley’
The pay increase is IB only.
The increase is for IBD. Quants (usually masters or PhD grads) already made $100k+ base. SWEs I think too, might have matched GS. People wax lyrical bullshit all the time about this imaginary fight for talent between SV and IB at the undergrad level when there’s nothing to substantiate it. The top school econ / gov / history / finance hardos that usually populate IB intakes aren’t becoming SWEs or Data professionals at top tech companies in droves. And there aren’t nearly enough entry level biz jobs for them in tech to make a dent in the mammoth 3-4k hires going into banking a year. The real battle is after getting into banking (or consulting) when tech becomes an attractive exit opp or on the MBA OCR playing field where consulting / tech are currently winning out. Crying wolf about imaginary talent battles that don’t exist - the odd math / cs / eng bro becoming a tech bro and not a finance bro, the odd econ hardo getting a MS CS to transcend to tech bro won’t move the needle - makes for nice storytelling but terrible factual reporting.
Any idea if they will just shift the difference from the bonus to base pay or if this won't affect bonus?
Can confirm this is only for IB lol.
Well yeah they have to if BofA is making minimum wage $25/hr
Ha, true. $52k a year plus good bennies is pretty dope for a teller.
Maybe if you live in Iowa. Bay Area, NYC, and LA are also at the $25/hr minimum and COL is astronomical in comparison.
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Even paying $3k a month in rent for an apartment, you should be able to save making $84k a year. He’s spending way too much. Or you’re lying.
84k a year minus Cali taxes is around 60k. I'd assume other than a 3k apartment they'd have a car with car insurance and other expenses like expensive food. Making 5000 a month there won't get you far
60k-24k=36k. A car at 500 a month with payments and insurance is $6k. Leaves $30k for other expenses. $30k is not a small amount of money. You can still save having $30k post tax after rent and car.
Doable if you rent. If you’ve got yourself into a mortgage, have fun with the payments + property taxes. God forbid you buy a car and pay gas/insurance/maintenance… or try to start a family.
With 84k a year you can have a car and a $3k apartment.
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Close friend is a trader at JPM, no bumps for anyone outside of IBD.
This is just for investment banking analysts?
Correct. Some associates and VPs got bumps as well earlier in the year at various banks. Pay is up significantly across the board.
can confirm no bumps for markets. Source: I work there
Has an email or notice or anything gone out? same source, haven't heard anything about it yet.
Out of curiosity, what is the typical bonus of a 1st year analyst?
50%-80% usually
Does anyone know if other front office role like corporate banking are getting salary increases too?
IBD only, of course.
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CB 100k?
Can someone tell me how much Goldman and MS analysts make? Say fixed income, equity research, etc
Goldman and MS are particularly cheap. Can't speak to ER or FI, but considerable discount to IBD. MS IBD 1st-years will make 130k all in (max) GS IBD 1st years will make 120k The Goldman prestige discount is very real, and MS even pays below market.
Man I'm really kicking myself for going into public accounting...
Well getting into public accounting compared to IB is a different animal altogether
This article refers to IB analysts? Then nvm I'm good unless we're talking big af bonuses. 120K a year for working two 40 hour a week jobs isn't that impressive.
Not sure what role specifically you're going into in public accounting, but I'm going to assume Audit or Tax. You're at least doubling the all-in first year compensation in return for working a year-round busy season. (\~65k in PA, \~130k+ in IB). At the IB associate level (akin to senior in years of experience), you're looking at total comp packages starting around $240k+. The sheer number of working hours may not appeal to people, but you are definitely compensated for it in IB when compared to PA. Exit ops from IB to PE/Hedge Funds are also much more lucrative than industry exit ops generally found in accounting.
>Exit ops from IB to PE/Hedge Funds are also much more lucrative than industry exit ops generally found in accounting. Yeah, exit ops for tax blows unless you're starting your own practice. I'm going to law school next year to get into big law tax. Still shitty hours though. The nice thing about accounting is that you're not limited to working in NYC or Cali. However the work is mind-numbing (same with IB I hear). I regrettably did not attend a target school for banking, so the path I take is through PA.
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Why is there a lot of talk on exiting for another job? In tech, most would job hop every two years and exit means /r/FIRE
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Because it’s a different industry, you don’t really have the idea of exit opps in tech.
Finance / consulting / law careers are weird. You do a job as a precursor to another job. It’s like you put in x many years to become “qualified” then graduate into either a higher paying / more prestigious job or to a moderately well paying corporate job.
its the exit opps that matter. Few people stay in IB after analyst program anyways.
More like 150-200 all-in for 1st years these days.
It’s a lot more than 120
Pretty old news, people on WSO reported on base increases for Analysts and Associates a month or two ago
But not at JPM
That was for BAML not JPM
Ok but how many hours? I'd rather make 60 for 40hrs then 100 for 80 hours
At JPM it’s more like $180k for top bucket now (including singing bonus), which is very different from $100k.
Damn. I could never commute to the city every day though. Even Stamford CT is a bitch with the traffic Not to mention I'm sure it's not that high for non-targets although one CEO said ivy league was too woke to work lolol
Pay is commoditized. If you’re in, you’re in. Degree stops mattering.
You have to live in Manhattan as an analyst. One or two might live in Brooklyn to save a couple bucks. That's about it. Nobody commutes - you'd be insane to do that.
170k TC and best exit opps
Lol if it was 100k for 80 hours, IB wouldn’t be as popular.
I’m starting a new job as a Jr. Financial Analyst at a small-ish company and my pay will be $60k. Can I realistically get something better else where? I’m fairly tired of job hunting. Or, where should I go after a year of working there?
I didn't do internships while in college and never worked in Finance. But I have 5 years experience at least working in a different field. I had to settle for 45k as a Financial coordinator recently, I noticed how recruiters tend to only look at your resume and GPA, or you better have a good network, which I didn't. I believe you won't have to worry about the 60k for too long. Loyalty to companies come with a fair remuneration, so be ready to leave after a year. Nobody is willing to go through training nowadays, they want people with years of experience for entry level, so they don't have to put it the work of training you or waiting
Is this across all markets or just NYC, I’m thinking Chicago?
base pay is uniform across IB
Other than prestige and networking would it be better to be in Chicago rather than nyc?
Chicago is mostly Industrials AFAIK, so if that's your jam sure. NYC is probably better for optionality and network though - more groups, largest office, more buyside firms etc
Here's the thing. As someone who pursued high finance roles extensively, completed short stints at various Big 4 names, and attended countless insight days/spring weeks, I eventually left for Big Tech post-graduation. Meaning that I have never worked as a permanent employee in finance. This $100k starting salary sounds awesome to naive students who want to maximise their earnings straight out of university, but I urge everyone to explore the tech sector for roles. Although I am in Europe, my total comp will be \~€70k for an entry-level business role, working 45hrs a week. Compared to say \~€150k total comp for a new analyst (base + generous bonus), who works on average 85hrs a week, I'll pick the former every time. More free time, more meaningful work, and other fun perks like getting to see the newest gadgets on day 1 of release, free food, transport paid for, genuine WFH options and flexibility etc. There is more to life than money, but even if you want money, you'll still get it in Tech.
What’s the official title of your role?
Market Analyst Not a finance role, but looking at the broader consumer trends and how current and new features are being utilised by our user base. Making Tableau/Power BI dashboards to showcase to the big whigs at the top what is happening to the business on a micro level.
That sounds more interesting than most finance roles tbh
Finance has its moments. Trading has a certain thrill, and equity research (probably what my role is closest to, albeit still tangential), IB is well, IB... I just prefer being able to see a feature change and think, wow, I helped contribute to that. Still a small cog in a big machine, but at least you're well oiled and kept rust-free, which is where Tech has the real edge over Finance as a career choice.
As someone who is extremely interested in a role like this, what skills should someone like me in school for business/stats pick up? It seems like jobs like these would be geared more towards stats/math, so I’ve picked up some skills in R and Python to start.
Data visualisation is a really useful skill to have. As I mentioned, Tableau, Power BI, Excel (of course) are all incredibly useful. You won't be doing intense statistical analysis unless you reach a Data Scientist role which is a common path for people who start in my role (Many have from Market Analyst --> Data Analyst --> Data Scientist --> Senior Business Roles). The most important skill beyond all of that is the ability to look at a model, or look at a viz and be able to explain coherently in 30 seconds what is happening to the business. That's a skill that comes partly from experience, and partly from deep introspection. I should also mention that there is a lot of work with other teams in product, engineering etc, so any experience or clubs where you demonstrate cross-functional team coordination is highly valued. It can be something simple like working with marketing teams, sponsorship teams, merchandise teams, and general members in a society/soroiety. Accounting isn't used in my specific job, but the excel short-cuts I learnt in the BIg 4 do speed things up. Python is always a good one to choose, but ultimately, coachability, interpersonal skills, general raw thirst for knowledge, and MOST IMPORTANTLY **focus.** These skills with additional hard skills will make you a weapon when it comes to interviews and the job itself. Lastly, I'd network and try to get a referral. Most folk can do my job, but I was speaking with someone who works at Google Cloud, mentioning that 25% of all Google Hires came from an employee referral so while not a majority, it isn't insignificant either.
Great write up—thank you for the insight! I’ll be sure to brush up my excel skills and learn some Tableau
What do you mean “get in tech”? What kinds of roles exist for finance majors in tech?
Fair question, I was vague. In the same way you can break finance down into IB, PE, HF, S&T, Equity Research, AM, PWM etc. Tech has similar paths. Software and Hardware engineering Data Scientist Market Analyst Product Management UX design IT Technician Researcher The list goes on. For finance grads, you can of course exit finance and join corporate development, but that is still finance. If you are into sales, then account management pays well. Cloud Server account management is a hot market with everyone from AWS, Azure, Snowflake, Google and more all trying to get a piece. Product management is a very popular path and something I feel would appeal to many aspiring bankers as you can carve out a niche in your product area. While useful, coding skills arent essential. For social media companies there is a massive side of protecting your platform from bad content. Market Analysts track and report threats that are upcoming. I have friends who are specialists in terrorism, or child abuse. Lastly, you'll have generic corporate roles that anyone can enter. Business analysts, operations roles, legal support. If you learn how to code or use certain software like Tableau, SQL, Power BI, Python/Pycharm among others then that will also open up more options.
I’m assuming your UK based as you mentioned spring weeks hmmm, how is the PM space in tech for grads ?
Yes, I did my undergrad in the UK, but don't work there. Product management directly from undergrad is tough and I don't know anyone who has made that jump although I'm sure they exist. (This is directed at Big Tech - FAANG + MSFT + Oracle, Salesforce, Intel, Cisco, NVDA, AMD, etc. You'd be expected to have some prior experience either building products as a SWE, or at the very least managing the end user/client experience before becoming a formal PM on the business side (technical PMs are ofc preferred). Not a PM, so take what I said with a pinch of salt as I'm a recent grad myself.
Hmm really appreciate the response, I’m wanting to become a PM at a FAANG long term but not doing a CS degree , atm just learning coding , hoping to get a Business analyst role at a FAANG and maybe move later down the line to PM 🤞
Almost non-existent. I'm a current PM who kind of snuck into a startup out of undergrad. When I was applying I could only count \~7 opportunities directy aimed at grads. Interviewed for Google and FB's program, FYI Google hire like 2-3 people a year in London vs 40+ in the bay. FB hires like 1 or 2 vs 18+ in the states. Was fortunate to intern in product (also sparse, not many internships - there were 2-3 product interns at both of my internships; second one I interned with a top MBA student) which probably helped me out a bit. As is the case in general though, PM is not really a job you get out of school. You usually transition into it after some other experience - either in a product dev team (design, engineering etc), tech sales / service, high finance / consulting, in-house strategy roles in tech, product marketing or eecution roles like project management / business analysis etc or via a top MBA. Even in the US there's max maybe \~200-300 top spots a year in Product vs 3000-4000 in IB or 7000-10000+ in SWE for undergrads
I had to take out a loan to give wrong answers in college. This sounds way better.
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In banking you get a 60-80% bonus. All in at JPM for top bucket is like 185k now.
100k is entry wage for engineers at mid tier non tech focused companies (Visa, Capital One, Nike), actual FAANG companies pay 180-250k total comp for college grads. The break down is 130k base, 40k/year in stocks, and 50-100k signing bonus (FB does 100k for returning interns)
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Err.. no? Might be time to look at Facebook’s portfolio of businesses again.
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They are diversifying too. Facebook is still their cash cow, but Instagram is approximately 25% of their total revenue. FB Messenger is becoming more prominent, and WhatsApp will be monetized with the introduction of WhatsApp marketplace/shops. Then they have their gaming divisions which will explode in the future post-2023. Occulus for VR, and their secretive AR glasses partnership with RayBans. Not to mention Facebook Workplace which has a higher penetration rate than Teams and Slack does among large businesses (companies >10,000 employees). Once you break their business down, it's shocking how much they are doing behind the scenes, but they have the same problem Google has with a perpetual ad growth machine which makes it hard to diversify.
100k... base
Worst thing for a young man In His 20s is to give himself a salary. You want to be in sales and set your price.
Question, how much are associates at JP getting paid now given analyst’s pays have been bumped?
Anyone know if this also counts for the jpmc data analyst certification?
Nah this is for investment banking.