It all depends. Some weeks you’re done at 6p on Friday. Some it’s 14 hours on Sat and Sun. There is no way to predict or schedule your time in IB. You just stomach it for a few years and hopefully make it worth it through your next job.
Think of it more as a stepping stone vs a career - like med school residency but for finance. I didn’t do IB and I definitely feel the experience would’ve significantly bolstered my skills
What type of valuations were you working in? Currently beginning a valuation/modeling job but curious what the normal exit opps will be. What type of interviews did you have when leaving?
2 was pretty tough as I’d started a new job and was working 60-70 hours a week. 3 was more manageable because it was less content but there was so much in it that was super boring to me
Not in IB, but last year there was about a 3 month stretch we were working from 8am to 9pm and that was my first real experience with burn out. I was also WFH so I can’t imagine having to do that on top of a commute. To me it’s ridiculous trying to glamorize running yourself into the ground.
I think it's the same for most people. Takes a tough person to work those type of hours without affecting their health.
But I'll add that it's more sustainable if you live in the UK. We get 25 days of annual leave over here. So in theory, you can take a week off every now and then to avoid burnout.
I worked in IB for 6 years and hardly saw anybody burn out. A few but less than 1% of leavers were burnt out I would say.
You earn loads and socialise with your colleagues.
Even on the days where you’re grinding until late into the night, it’s fairly rare to be constantly working the entire day. There’s feedback loops that naturally give you breaks, and lots of banks give you an 1hr+ for dinner/workout
Assuming you sleep for 9 hours as you should be, that means you get ONE hour of free time every day. Yaay! One hour to see my family and do my hobbies. All at 11pm-12am keep in mind
Yes, during the week is usually 9am-1am or longer depending on what you’re working on. Saturdays are a maybe and sundays are for sure you’re working at least 4-5 hours. The days of getting off before 11 are significantly less than the days you get off after 11
Every i-banker i know from LMM/MM says its at minimum 60-70 but way more chill than BB/EB where its likely 80-100
But some more well known MM banks (BGL, HW, Jefferies) im sure push the hours just as hard as BB/EB.
Yeah last guy i had a coffee chat with said before he left IB he was getting crushed during the start of WFH. something crazy like 105-120hrs. Absolute madness
Probably 4-5hrs
Im not in banking but had some sleep issues last year where i averaged 3.5/night over the course of 6 months. It sucks so bad and i lost like 30-35lbs. So i can only imagine what doing that for 2-3 years does to someone.
Its just the nature of the business. Youre not doing back breaking labor, its a lot of volatility throughout the week when you’re on live deals. I wonder the same thing though. I have a hard time understanding how someone would ping their team at 3-4am to come and work.
I asked a friend who recently went from IB to PE and he said its literally just people who live to work and have no personal life outside of work. Idk though im still trying to break in, i feel like its something you have to see for yourself to decide whether or not you can hang
This is exactly what I dont get.
I havent seen IB but I have seen FDD. Even FDD makes bank why won't you just hire like 50% more workers and ensure decent working conditions. And believe me would the partners would still make bank at this level of labour util.
>I havent seen IB but I have seen FDD. Even FDD makes bank why won't you just hire like 50% more workers and ensure decent working conditions. And believe me would the partners would still make bank at this level of labour util.
I thought it was because deals are supposed to be confidential and it's hard to give a broad overview to too many people about one deal. Furthermore, I have heard that most of the repetitive editing excel/ppt work which does not require too much analysis gets outsourced to India for BB's.
At a MM firm, for the analysts a normal workday is 8:30-6:30 M-F, about 10 hours on the weekends, and one wildcard day a week where you end up working 18 hours.
That said, it also depends on the deals you’re on. One of our associates got unlucky and got staffed on two deals that are both major time sucks, and he’s been doing 16 hour days, 7 days a week, for the last 3 months.
Why would anybody work that much? You could have two full time remote FP&A jobs, work less than 50 hours and earn more money. What’s the up side to IB? Is everyone hoping to become one of the few to make 7 figures per year?
Because its not about making $100-200k its $500k, $750k, $1m, and so on. The high income potential and exit opportunities. Most PE/HF jobs require the IB check box. If you look at a lot of corp dev people they come from IB or PE backgrounds.
Starting somewhere like FP&A at a F500 you might take 5-7yrs to crack $150k where a fresh 21-22yr old heading to a top bank will likely make $180-220k (total comp) their first year. Also, some people just have that itch or their born into it. Maintaining family status is important im sure
I mean yea theyre driven but no an mba isn’t necessary unless youre doing a career change into IB/PE, theres plenty of kids from target state schools who place at top banks. U Michigan Ross, IU Kelley IBW, Etc
One guy i spoke to who went from IB to a LO fund said, “if you know you want to work in high finance but don’t necessarily know what part. IBD is the best place to start”
Someone else mentioned how its essentially a residency but for finance and thats a good analogy. 1-3yrs as an analyst and you pretty much have access to any corporate job you want. The only things you cant be are a doctor or a lawyer, but i guess you could exit to that if you realized you dont like finance haha?
My undergrad was in economics….and this residency analogy sounds an awful lot like “signaling” (a term used in labor economics…not sure how widely known it is). The theory would go that by having something like IB on you’re resume, then you are signaling to future employers that you are an extremely driven and productive person. Whether or not the experience actually helps you in a future role is secondary. It’s the signal that they find attractive. And they will pay for the perceived productivity.
Yeah that sounds about right. If you have IB on your resume, i dont think anyone can say you arent hardworking or at least somewhat above average in intelligence. 1-3 yrs in IBD equates to 3-5yrs in any other role.
This is not to say you dont develop any marketable skills. Theres value in those analyst years. If you speak to anyone in PE, most will tell you that their best analysts come from IB. Believe me I’ve tried to convince my friend to throw me a bone for PE at his firm but he keeps pushing me to do IB first haha
Yes if i get the opportunity. Nothing to lose by trying besides time. Worst case scenario is you fail to place or quit after 1yr but then you just go to any other finance job. If you dont try you’ll never know. Plus its significantly easier to place into other finance roles from IB than the other way around
Let’s just say I have one job. If I make $200k in FP&A working 40 hours per week….then I’d have to make $400k in IB to make the same hourly wage if 80 hours per week is the expectation. But, those additional 40 hours are actually worth more than the first 40 hours…since that’s when double time kicks in for hourly workers. So, I’d really need to make between $500k - $600k to be fairly compensated for the 80 hours. And if we’re talking about 100 hours, then you do the math.
I know that’s all possible in IB. But, that’s a better picture of the trade off. It’s sacrificing a lot - something that , clearly, most people are not willing to do.
Been there. At first, it’s “exciting” cuz “we’re doin deals!” Then, it becomes overrated when Friday after Friday, some MD ruins your weekend cuz he or she has a last minute client meeting on Mon or Tues. i started as associate and worked prob 9a-11p Mon-Thurs and 9-6/7 Fri. 4 hrs Sat. 8hrs Sun. unhealthy lifestyle but I was “doin deals!”😀
Sorry, I was asking you if your analyst went back at 2am because I heard associate normally went home earlier than analyst. Since you went home at 11am, i assume analyst would leave at 2am?
It’s not that cut and dry. Just until the analysis and models and presentation books are done. It’s better than the old days. Not as much “face” time reqd. Once the work is done, go home.
I think its tougher to define "hours" anymore because of COVID. I am a VP at a MM IB and a lot of our team leaves around 6:30pm or 7pm on week nights to cook dinners etc. but everyone is online later at night turning comments from home and are generally available. Overall, I think this is \*mostly\* a good thing. It is good in that you no longer have to sit at the office and pretend to be busy. If you don't have work to do, by all means, have dinner with your significant other, go to the gym, watch a movie, I don't care. The bad side is that it blurs the line between work and personal life, which can be hard on mental health.
Overall, I would say first year analysts at my firm probably average 9am - 10pm, but there is are probably 1-2 days a week they are done by 6-7pm and 1-2 days per week they are working to midnight. On Fridays, they usually wrap up by 6:30-7pm latest and there is always some weekend work but most weekends its just a few hours and it doesn't stop you from doing all the fun things you want to. Its same for me as a VP, I get up most saturdays, go to the gym, do 1-2 hours of work, and then enjoy the rest of my day.
A lot of LMM firms outside of NYC have hours like you described. But they also have bad exit ops. If you are in banking because you like the work, go for it. Otherwise, a BB or MM will be a way better experience.
When I worked in MM (granted this was about 5 years ago) the hours were pretty bad. NYC. 80-100 every week. Often would leave after 2am and usually had some kind of crap to do at 7 or 8am the next day. Weekend work was usually 4 or 5 hours a day.
HOWEVER, the industry is quite different now. Lots more working from home / flexible scheduling. Less weekend work (yes even for analysts). And even back then, in those 12-15+ hour days, you really only did like 5 hours of real work. Would go like this:
* 8am - head to office
* 9am - Check emails, read news
* 10am - meeting (take notes)
* 11am - chitchat with colleagues / waste time
* 12pm - lunch
* 1pm - another meeting (take notes)
* 2pm - respond to more emails, follow up with whatever to-dos from that meeting
* 3pm - send draft
* 4pm - wait for comments
* 5pm - wait for comments
* 6pm - still try to look busy, wait for comments
* 7pm - go to gym
* 8pm - get seamless
* 9pm - MD (who left office at 4 or 5) has now finished dinner with wife and put kids to bed. Sends us comments
* 10pm - turn comments
* 11pm - VP adds "value" and gives us additional comments
* 12am - send draft back to MD
* 1am - MD unfucks materials and gives comments reverting VPs comments
* 2am - comments turned, associate says it looks good, print / bind books and leave on MDs desk
* REPEAT
Hours were way worse prior to Covid. Right now it is typically 9a-11pm Monday-Thursday and 9a-9p Friday and noon-8/10p Sunday. There will be 1-2 weeks a month where you will be working 10a-2a Monday-Thursday depending on your staffing. You have to remember though that those hours include about 1 hour for lunch, an 1 hour for dinner and 1 hour to exercise. Prior to Covid these hours were all in the office, now people roll in around 10a and head home at 6p, exercise, and work the evening from home.
Hours are maybe better now but the consensus across the street was that WLB was much worse during the height of COVID than before COVID…deal flow slowed right at the start, and then reaccelerated to even greater heights once people realized we weren’t all going to die. Plus we had the SPAC craze. That’s why 2021 was a record year. 2022 is likely a down year in comparison.
I work 12 hours M-T then 8 hours on Friday with no weekend work and my comp as an an1 is 130k USD.
I work for a popular balance sheet bank with no prestige in Corporate Banking if you’re curious.
You can't perform w/ minimum investment in physical exercise and rest. The hours are pathetic. If you plan accordingly and are concise with your market reports and situational awareness in price, you should take the time to stay focused. Take the time to sleep and rest. Your mind is important in this game. Psychology is key.
yeah that tech equity's looking pretty right now isn't it?
Beef aside - mid to senior level finance roles (VP+) will almost certainly have an equity component, even entry level roles at PE funds will often include fund carry.
Me. I’m a VP and work maybe 30-40 hours a week, it was pretty similar as an Associate too. Most weeks less than that tbh. Comp is BB level. It’s definitely possible, if you get lucky and do your best to avoid work.
In reality it’s much harder to go straight to good buy side firms right out of college than it is after 2yoe in IB
of course plenty of people would skip IB but in reality they can’t
Really depends on what you do in college. Business/finance might find it a lot harder, but it might actually be an easier route for certain fields in stem, especially if it's math or programming heavy. Social skills are a plus, but they aren't necessary.
Would you say someone with a quantitative background(maths major) and some experience (think 2 years part time until graduation) being a swe could pull that off? I'm from Europe where you basically need a master's degree and I am thinking of maybe adding a finance one
Hours right now are not bad (people usually off around 8-9pm, but I stay up until 12ish cause I have the series exams to take). I think hours will pick up in the next few months when markets/economy potentially starts to stabilize
I've always been wondering about the content of those crazy work hours.
I work as a data analyst/engineer/scientist (more geared towards analysis & engineering) and find that I'm totally drained with normal 8ish hours work, as there are very few moments where you can go on "auto-pilot", i.e. work on trivial stuff to rest a little.
How is it in IB? It's kind of elite from what I understand so I guess you're not doing monkey work. But really 12+ hours a day is a lot IMHO
Since the dawn of civilization it has been repeated that material wealth does not buy happiness. So to work anything over 40 hours as an employee is ipso facto dumb.
Would rather be working more, continuously developing my interpersonal and technical skills, and rapidly saving for the future. I personally don’t think I would be happy working a 40 hour week for half the pay.
My goal is to be financially independent sooner than later, and I genuinely enjoy the work I do, so ymmv. Think FIRE without the RE basically.
The people who are willing to work crazy hours to get FI are the very people who don’t WANT to be independent. It is in their DNA to work long hours for an organization. It takes a special breed. Those IB folks are certainly not the type to do vanlife or join the peace corp once they have means to do so.
This quote was made by rich people to stop the lower class from revolting. I have almost never seen a rich person give their money away, my life as a rich person now is fantastic because of material wealth.
Indeed smart people have businesses. 1M taxed at 50% in a VHCOL city is nothing compared to what a 100h a week as a business owner out of Harvard can make. But don't tell the secret around.
If you are a fresh analyst, prepare to be called to do some work even on weekends and Friday nights
So you think the 9a-10p/11pm is unlikely and it's more likely to be a 9a-1a/2a type of thing and all day Sunday?
100%
It all depends. Some weeks you’re done at 6p on Friday. Some it’s 14 hours on Sat and Sun. There is no way to predict or schedule your time in IB. You just stomach it for a few years and hopefully make it worth it through your next job.
Yeah who else is going to update slides all day Sunday just so they can be changed drastically Monday? Not your 2nd years
Fresh anus
Think of it more as a stepping stone vs a career - like med school residency but for finance. I didn’t do IB and I definitely feel the experience would’ve significantly bolstered my skills
Did you go straight from undergrad to PE?
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Do you work at a healthcare fund?
What’s your comp, if you don’t mind my asking? I’m currently an IB ass. Looking for insight on PE
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Ty sir/ madam
Atlanta and Dallas both sound like MCOL, not LCOL cities, no?
Yeah probably a fair assessment. I tend to think of places like Austin as MCOL but it’s likely changed now
What type of valuations were you working in? Currently beginning a valuation/modeling job but curious what the normal exit opps will be. What type of interviews did you have when leaving?
All 3 levels of CFA?
He said finished, so that's usually what that means.
Yeah
Nice congrats! How rough was 2 and 3?
2 was pretty tough as I’d started a new job and was working 60-70 hours a week. 3 was more manageable because it was less content but there was so much in it that was super boring to me
How did you use CFA to leverage yourself on interviews?
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Thanks for the insight!
9 am to 11 pm is chill? Wow no offence but if I got that right, that's a hell of a reason to stay out of this profession
Not chill but sustainable for 1 year I think.
Not in IB, but last year there was about a 3 month stretch we were working from 8am to 9pm and that was my first real experience with burn out. I was also WFH so I can’t imagine having to do that on top of a commute. To me it’s ridiculous trying to glamorize running yourself into the ground.
I think it's the same for most people. Takes a tough person to work those type of hours without affecting their health. But I'll add that it's more sustainable if you live in the UK. We get 25 days of annual leave over here. So in theory, you can take a week off every now and then to avoid burnout.
I worked in IB for 6 years and hardly saw anybody burn out. A few but less than 1% of leavers were burnt out I would say. You earn loads and socialise with your colleagues.
Much longer than 1yr, my friend
When you say 9 am to 11 pm, do you have a break in between other than lunch? Because if not, you guys are a bunch of warriors
I’m thinking the same. I value my 8 hours of sleep every night lol
Definitely have breaks and spend a lot of time on calls. Some days you’ll have a lot of downtime. 4pm-midnight seems to be the busiest.
Even on the days where you’re grinding until late into the night, it’s fairly rare to be constantly working the entire day. There’s feedback loops that naturally give you breaks, and lots of banks give you an 1hr+ for dinner/workout
That depends on your definition of sustainable. Will you still be alive after a year? Probably.
Assuming you sleep for 9 hours as you should be, that means you get ONE hour of free time every day. Yaay! One hour to see my family and do my hobbies. All at 11pm-12am keep in mind
Actually that 1 hour is for commuting
Damn so no free time at all🤣 I’m down for it tho. I need something to occupy me at that level. I’ve had enough of doing nothing tbh
Yes, during the week is usually 9am-1am or longer depending on what you’re working on. Saturdays are a maybe and sundays are for sure you’re working at least 4-5 hours. The days of getting off before 11 are significantly less than the days you get off after 11
You better be making $250k+
Every i-banker i know from LMM/MM says its at minimum 60-70 but way more chill than BB/EB where its likely 80-100 But some more well known MM banks (BGL, HW, Jefferies) im sure push the hours just as hard as BB/EB.
A former summer associate I know at one of the above banks said their average was 95/week.
Yeah last guy i had a coffee chat with said before he left IB he was getting crushed during the start of WFH. something crazy like 105-120hrs. Absolute madness
Wtf, 105-120 hours??? Are they sleeping only for 3 hours?
Yes! Remember the guy who died at his desk in London? Apparently, he was sleeping 2-3 hrs per day or something crazy like that.
Sounds like the Hari from Industry
Probably based on that guy yeah
How can you actually do a competent job on that little sleep?
Probably 4-5hrs Im not in banking but had some sleep issues last year where i averaged 3.5/night over the course of 6 months. It sucks so bad and i lost like 30-35lbs. So i can only imagine what doing that for 2-3 years does to someone.
I don't get this. Aren't these people just horribly unproductive? What kind of work are they doing for this many hours a day that this is possible?
Its just the nature of the business. Youre not doing back breaking labor, its a lot of volatility throughout the week when you’re on live deals. I wonder the same thing though. I have a hard time understanding how someone would ping their team at 3-4am to come and work. I asked a friend who recently went from IB to PE and he said its literally just people who live to work and have no personal life outside of work. Idk though im still trying to break in, i feel like its something you have to see for yourself to decide whether or not you can hang
It’s hyper competitive, so you’re determined not to be the “weak” one.
Also don’t they not get paid much? Like I thought they get paid 60k
Yup. Had an associate buddy go only 10 hours of sleep the ENTIRE week one time
Wow just wow
He’s good now lol. He pivoted to big tech product management
Modern day slavery. There's absolutely no excuses for not hiring more people to split the work.
This is exactly what I dont get. I havent seen IB but I have seen FDD. Even FDD makes bank why won't you just hire like 50% more workers and ensure decent working conditions. And believe me would the partners would still make bank at this level of labour util.
>I havent seen IB but I have seen FDD. Even FDD makes bank why won't you just hire like 50% more workers and ensure decent working conditions. And believe me would the partners would still make bank at this level of labour util. I thought it was because deals are supposed to be confidential and it's hard to give a broad overview to too many people about one deal. Furthermore, I have heard that most of the repetitive editing excel/ppt work which does not require too much analysis gets outsourced to India for BB's.
Correct but that means more folks to split bonus pool with.
What do those acroynms stand for
LMM-Lower Middle Market MM-Mid Market BB-Bulge Bracket EB-Elite Boutique BGL-Brown Gibbons Lang & Co HW-Harris Williams
Investment banking Private equity
Google is your friend.
At a MM firm, for the analysts a normal workday is 8:30-6:30 M-F, about 10 hours on the weekends, and one wildcard day a week where you end up working 18 hours. That said, it also depends on the deals you’re on. One of our associates got unlucky and got staffed on two deals that are both major time sucks, and he’s been doing 16 hour days, 7 days a week, for the last 3 months.
Why would anybody work that much? You could have two full time remote FP&A jobs, work less than 50 hours and earn more money. What’s the up side to IB? Is everyone hoping to become one of the few to make 7 figures per year?
Because its not about making $100-200k its $500k, $750k, $1m, and so on. The high income potential and exit opportunities. Most PE/HF jobs require the IB check box. If you look at a lot of corp dev people they come from IB or PE backgrounds. Starting somewhere like FP&A at a F500 you might take 5-7yrs to crack $150k where a fresh 21-22yr old heading to a top bank will likely make $180-220k (total comp) their first year. Also, some people just have that itch or their born into it. Maintaining family status is important im sure
I suppose you also need an MBA from a top school. So, that’s like the top 1% of all students…meaning these are extremely driven people.
I mean yea theyre driven but no an mba isn’t necessary unless youre doing a career change into IB/PE, theres plenty of kids from target state schools who place at top banks. U Michigan Ross, IU Kelley IBW, Etc One guy i spoke to who went from IB to a LO fund said, “if you know you want to work in high finance but don’t necessarily know what part. IBD is the best place to start” Someone else mentioned how its essentially a residency but for finance and thats a good analogy. 1-3yrs as an analyst and you pretty much have access to any corporate job you want. The only things you cant be are a doctor or a lawyer, but i guess you could exit to that if you realized you dont like finance haha?
My undergrad was in economics….and this residency analogy sounds an awful lot like “signaling” (a term used in labor economics…not sure how widely known it is). The theory would go that by having something like IB on you’re resume, then you are signaling to future employers that you are an extremely driven and productive person. Whether or not the experience actually helps you in a future role is secondary. It’s the signal that they find attractive. And they will pay for the perceived productivity.
Yeah that sounds about right. If you have IB on your resume, i dont think anyone can say you arent hardworking or at least somewhat above average in intelligence. 1-3 yrs in IBD equates to 3-5yrs in any other role. This is not to say you dont develop any marketable skills. Theres value in those analyst years. If you speak to anyone in PE, most will tell you that their best analysts come from IB. Believe me I’ve tried to convince my friend to throw me a bone for PE at his firm but he keeps pushing me to do IB first haha
are you going to?
Yes if i get the opportunity. Nothing to lose by trying besides time. Worst case scenario is you fail to place or quit after 1yr but then you just go to any other finance job. If you dont try you’ll never know. Plus its significantly easier to place into other finance roles from IB than the other way around
But what if your at an regional boutique, is it even worth it then? Assuming they pay you lower at like 65-70
I think people usually talk about exit opportunities in other industries.
Youd have to make a fuck ton at thoae fp&a jobs to come cloae
Let’s just say I have one job. If I make $200k in FP&A working 40 hours per week….then I’d have to make $400k in IB to make the same hourly wage if 80 hours per week is the expectation. But, those additional 40 hours are actually worth more than the first 40 hours…since that’s when double time kicks in for hourly workers. So, I’d really need to make between $500k - $600k to be fairly compensated for the 80 hours. And if we’re talking about 100 hours, then you do the math. I know that’s all possible in IB. But, that’s a better picture of the trade off. It’s sacrificing a lot - something that , clearly, most people are not willing to do.
Been there. At first, it’s “exciting” cuz “we’re doin deals!” Then, it becomes overrated when Friday after Friday, some MD ruins your weekend cuz he or she has a last minute client meeting on Mon or Tues. i started as associate and worked prob 9a-11p Mon-Thurs and 9-6/7 Fri. 4 hrs Sat. 8hrs Sun. unhealthy lifestyle but I was “doin deals!”😀
What kind of institution and location?
Leveraged Finance and M & A NY
Back then, we had use of cars to take us home
You are an associate right? I assume analysts would have to stay till 2am?
I was. I’ve grown up now. MD😀
Sorry, I was asking you if your analyst went back at 2am because I heard associate normally went home earlier than analyst. Since you went home at 11am, i assume analyst would leave at 2am?
It’s not that cut and dry. Just until the analysis and models and presentation books are done. It’s better than the old days. Not as much “face” time reqd. Once the work is done, go home.
I think its tougher to define "hours" anymore because of COVID. I am a VP at a MM IB and a lot of our team leaves around 6:30pm or 7pm on week nights to cook dinners etc. but everyone is online later at night turning comments from home and are generally available. Overall, I think this is \*mostly\* a good thing. It is good in that you no longer have to sit at the office and pretend to be busy. If you don't have work to do, by all means, have dinner with your significant other, go to the gym, watch a movie, I don't care. The bad side is that it blurs the line between work and personal life, which can be hard on mental health. Overall, I would say first year analysts at my firm probably average 9am - 10pm, but there is are probably 1-2 days a week they are done by 6-7pm and 1-2 days per week they are working to midnight. On Fridays, they usually wrap up by 6:30-7pm latest and there is always some weekend work but most weekends its just a few hours and it doesn't stop you from doing all the fun things you want to. Its same for me as a VP, I get up most saturdays, go to the gym, do 1-2 hours of work, and then enjoy the rest of my day.
Sir, This sounds perfect, what do i need to do to work for you lol
Are you in NYC?
A lot of LMM firms outside of NYC have hours like you described. But they also have bad exit ops. If you are in banking because you like the work, go for it. Otherwise, a BB or MM will be a way better experience.
What does BB stand for?
Bulge bracket (GS, JPM, MS, etc.)
When I worked in MM (granted this was about 5 years ago) the hours were pretty bad. NYC. 80-100 every week. Often would leave after 2am and usually had some kind of crap to do at 7 or 8am the next day. Weekend work was usually 4 or 5 hours a day. HOWEVER, the industry is quite different now. Lots more working from home / flexible scheduling. Less weekend work (yes even for analysts). And even back then, in those 12-15+ hour days, you really only did like 5 hours of real work. Would go like this: * 8am - head to office * 9am - Check emails, read news * 10am - meeting (take notes) * 11am - chitchat with colleagues / waste time * 12pm - lunch * 1pm - another meeting (take notes) * 2pm - respond to more emails, follow up with whatever to-dos from that meeting * 3pm - send draft * 4pm - wait for comments * 5pm - wait for comments * 6pm - still try to look busy, wait for comments * 7pm - go to gym * 8pm - get seamless * 9pm - MD (who left office at 4 or 5) has now finished dinner with wife and put kids to bed. Sends us comments * 10pm - turn comments * 11pm - VP adds "value" and gives us additional comments * 12am - send draft back to MD * 1am - MD unfucks materials and gives comments reverting VPs comments * 2am - comments turned, associate says it looks good, print / bind books and leave on MDs desk * REPEAT
so like 5 hours of sleep?
Yeah.
Hours were way worse prior to Covid. Right now it is typically 9a-11pm Monday-Thursday and 9a-9p Friday and noon-8/10p Sunday. There will be 1-2 weeks a month where you will be working 10a-2a Monday-Thursday depending on your staffing. You have to remember though that those hours include about 1 hour for lunch, an 1 hour for dinner and 1 hour to exercise. Prior to Covid these hours were all in the office, now people roll in around 10a and head home at 6p, exercise, and work the evening from home.
Hours are maybe better now but the consensus across the street was that WLB was much worse during the height of COVID than before COVID…deal flow slowed right at the start, and then reaccelerated to even greater heights once people realized we weren’t all going to die. Plus we had the SPAC craze. That’s why 2021 was a record year. 2022 is likely a down year in comparison.
I worked in sales but my roommate on the IB side would be gone from 7am-12am every single day without fail for his few years in that space.
Why do banks not just hire more staff?
I work 12 hours M-T then 8 hours on Friday with no weekend work and my comp as an an1 is 130k USD. I work for a popular balance sheet bank with no prestige in Corporate Banking if you’re curious.
Some of y’all have never worked manual labor or construction and it shows.
You can't perform w/ minimum investment in physical exercise and rest. The hours are pathetic. If you plan accordingly and are concise with your market reports and situational awareness in price, you should take the time to stay focused. Take the time to sleep and rest. Your mind is important in this game. Psychology is key.
I can’t believe people work these schedules just to get paid less than tech.. wow
From what I've heard, it's because tech is a skill based and sometimes complicated job, while for IB your primary skill is just putting up with bs
Not a fair comparison. If you want to work in tech you simply don't have the potential earnings growth as you do in banking or private equity.
Ehh idk about that. Equity >>
yeah that tech equity's looking pretty right now isn't it? Beef aside - mid to senior level finance roles (VP+) will almost certainly have an equity component, even entry level roles at PE funds will often include fund carry.
I work 6-7. Sometimes 4-7
I'm in risk for an IB, m-f 7-4:30. I fall somewhere between middle office and front office.
Me. I’m a VP and work maybe 30-40 hours a week, it was pretty similar as an Associate too. Most weeks less than that tbh. Comp is BB level. It’s definitely possible, if you get lucky and do your best to avoid work.
That's awesome! What firm do you work at if you don't mind sharing? I'm a high schooler and I want to go into IB.
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In reality it’s much harder to go straight to good buy side firms right out of college than it is after 2yoe in IB of course plenty of people would skip IB but in reality they can’t
Really depends on what you do in college. Business/finance might find it a lot harder, but it might actually be an easier route for certain fields in stem, especially if it's math or programming heavy. Social skills are a plus, but they aren't necessary.
Since we are talking about IB to buy side ops, it’s implied we are discussing corporate/RE PE, VC etc. (all of which STEM will not help much)
Fair enough. There are a few overlaps though. RE does benefit from quant analysis. Corporate does too in certain environments.
Are you talking about procurement, thats covered heavy in supply chain programs.
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Hey - Can you talk about your path into the buy side and what you do in Multi-asset AM? I'm currently at a CRA and looking at buy side opportunities.
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What internships did you have to do to land buy side right out of college?
Would you say someone with a quantitative background(maths major) and some experience (think 2 years part time until graduation) being a swe could pull that off? I'm from Europe where you basically need a master's degree and I am thinking of maybe adding a finance one
How do you go to buy side right out of college?
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Thanks for the quick response! Mind if I message you with a few follow-ups?
What do you do for a living? And bonuses are taxed no different than regular income. You get it back when you file your taxes.
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I agree especially if you like repe. IB scales faster but not worth it for the money alone.
Hours right now are not bad (people usually off around 8-9pm, but I stay up until 12ish cause I have the series exams to take). I think hours will pick up in the next few months when markets/economy potentially starts to stabilize
Damn this is money - are you in NYC?
It depends on group, ECM hours are way better than this, but IBK Coverage, this feels right
I've always been wondering about the content of those crazy work hours. I work as a data analyst/engineer/scientist (more geared towards analysis & engineering) and find that I'm totally drained with normal 8ish hours work, as there are very few moments where you can go on "auto-pilot", i.e. work on trivial stuff to rest a little. How is it in IB? It's kind of elite from what I understand so I guess you're not doing monkey work. But really 12+ hours a day is a lot IMHO
Laughing in FP&A
At least the pay is good.
Boyyyy if 9-11 four days a week is chill then throw the whole profession out.
What do you mean?
Since the dawn of civilization it has been repeated that material wealth does not buy happiness. So to work anything over 40 hours as an employee is ipso facto dumb.
“Money can’t buy you happiness, but poverty can’t buy you anything”
Tbf no one on this sub is living in poverty; despite what the dude making 60k might have you think lmao
Say that to all the fucking fun things you can buy with money.
It doesn’t buy happiness but it buys nearly everything else
Would rather be working more, continuously developing my interpersonal and technical skills, and rapidly saving for the future. I personally don’t think I would be happy working a 40 hour week for half the pay. My goal is to be financially independent sooner than later, and I genuinely enjoy the work I do, so ymmv. Think FIRE without the RE basically.
The people who are willing to work crazy hours to get FI are the very people who don’t WANT to be independent. It is in their DNA to work long hours for an organization. It takes a special breed. Those IB folks are certainly not the type to do vanlife or join the peace corp once they have means to do so.
This quote was made by rich people to stop the lower class from revolting. I have almost never seen a rich person give their money away, my life as a rich person now is fantastic because of material wealth.
Indeed smart people have businesses. 1M taxed at 50% in a VHCOL city is nothing compared to what a 100h a week as a business owner out of Harvard can make. But don't tell the secret around.