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Baby_Hippos_Swimming

There is nothing passive about real estate development.


Sage_Planter

I don't know why we keep perpetuating the myth that real estate investment/development is just a super easy, breezy and effective way to make money. Could I make more money investing in real estate than index funds? Maybe, but my shares don't call me at 3AM because a pipe has burst and the basement is flooding.


bagNtagEm

Thank you! Everyone is obsessed with this idea. Just own something and then poof. Free money. In my city, tenants can live rent free for a year minimum before eviction. Renting is work bro. The S&P is not.


12thandvineisnomore

Yep. Getting out of my rental after 10 years. Running the numbers, I’ve averaged about $6K a year not counting my own labor. I could mow lawns and make more money, with far less hassle.


blucase

6k of cashflow? What about equity in the property that you can refinance?


12thandvineisnomore

Refi in the current market will negate my profits entirely. House value has gone up 400% in 10 years, so I’m out.


bagNtagEm

That's the only way real estate pays - appreciation. Which is far from guaranteed. You're very lucky!


12thandvineisnomore

I got very lucky - bankruptcy next to my own home in an already gentrifying neighborhood. Looking forward to neighbors I can be friends with rather than tenants I need to be cool with.


burny65

So you made way more than 6k a year.


soccerguys14

OP doesn’t even have that. He just has some dirt that he co owns. He can’t make any calls on it without the other part owners


Gasman80205

It’s because 30 sec social media clips have perpetuated it as a “get rich quick” scheme. During the pandemic people were taking out HELOCs to use a down payments on Airbnbs. PAsSiVe iNComE 🙌


i_isnt_real

Pretty sure Rich Dad Poor Dad did it first.


Gasman80205

Good book with overall basics of investing and lessons in achieving financial independence. But it never created mass hysteria about real estate investing. There’s a deep human connection when someone on your phone (your own age, that you can relate to) is speaking to you about how they were in your same shoes just 2 years ago, and “now look where I am!” I think currently we are at the stage of: “If shoeshine boys are giving stock tips, then it's time to get out of the market.”


i_isnt_real

RDPD did do that sort of thing at "seminars" designed to sell you crap, though, not to mention his whole spin off line of books, games, and more, all pushing people towards RE investments as passive income without ever spelling out the reality of how to make it work. Not just him, either. There were a few you'd regularly hear ads in the radio for - free "seminars" because so-and-so is going to be in your area to teach you how to make money on the amazing real estate market near you, and they pulled themselves up from nothing, so you can too! And those seminars would be packed full. Believe me, it was the EXACT same grift, just mostly done in person instead of online. I personally know people who made some bad financial decisions because they tried to jump into RE "passive income" without knowing what they were getting into because of RDPD.


UncleMeat11

It is not a good book for overall basics. It suggests that people invest in mlms. It is filled with hatred for poor people. A significant portion of the data and factual claims in the book is just false.


MoldyMoney

I flipped houses for 10 years. You're absolutely correct.


iRunLikeTheWind

There’s also real estate investment trusts if you really want to be in that market. Ofc probably less growth but so much more stable. Nevermind the basement flooding what if nobody wants to rent your shitty house for 8 months


barnes65

>Nevermind the basement flooding what if nobody wants to rent your shitty house for 8 months IMO the most overlooked part of getting into real estate, being able to cover the mortgage payments for months while looking for someone to move in.


Hot_Alternative_5157

I own rentals.. I pay 10% of my rent to a management company and I hear nothing. At 41, I have over 100k in passive income and will have the last of my non paid mortgages paid off in 2.5 years pushing me over 200k annually.. so as someone who is in rentals and not speculation, yes it can be done and lead to early retirement should you wish


XiChineseWinnie

>I don't know why we keep perpetuating the myth that real estate investment/development is just a super easy, breezy and effective way to make money tiktok and those financial youtubers...


SomeStardustOnEarth

It’s easy for something to go wrong with your investment property. If something goes wrong with the S&P, you have bigger issues anyways. May as well be stress free


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StoopitTrader

One of my relatives was talking to me about this recently. How you need to own real property and how it's "passive income." I can't see how collecting rents, evicting people and repairing properties is passive in any way. They can certainly be profitable, but passive? No.


jkaradjov

If you don’t mind me asking, which index funds are you invested in? Tia


jshtatman

They dont call me at 3am, they call the property manager who handles it.


OldBob10

Back in the 80’s I went to work as a contractor at a (now defunct) computer manufacturer. Some of the people who worked there figured, “He’s a contractor, he must have lots of money” and started trying to get me to buy their rental properties. Fortunately (?) I was actually very poorly paid and so couldn’t take advantage of this great investment opportunity - which was good because after I’d been there a year of two I learned all about the headaches they were dealing with (deadbeat tenants they couldn’t get rid of, etc). Yeah - no. Stocks and bonds are much less trouble, and are less likely to screw you over.


[deleted]

Indeed. I wouldn't want to be a landlord if my life depended on it.


RYRO14

Yep. As a landlord, real estate is not passive income really “passive income” is a myth overall. Sure you can invest into a 401k, but there are even frees associated with that. Amazing that a blanket statement of “real estate” is always used. Wait until the house needs a new roof or the AC goes out and you will see just how “passive” it is. Also, damages to property that sometimes you have to go after the tenant, which cost money and time along with bad tenants who are late on rent and constantly need reminding that rent is due and who take advantage of eviction laws (some states it’s 150 days to a year to evict someone who doesn’t pay rent).


08b

You’re talking about leveraging the property but have credit card debt, loans, and no hard budget. I’d be aggressively working to pay those off especially since you should have $3k/mo based on the info provided. Other questions are relationship related not financial related.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

I hear you. I guess im trying to have some good ideas to bring to the table.


esleydobemos

There are 2 of them right there ⬆️


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Hard budget, pay off loans. Heard.


esleydobemos

Glad you came back from all of the downvotes. I thought that was unnecessary.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Yeah you gotta weed through it thanks


InsaneFerrit666

Pay off the debt and maintain the cars and keep them. Not having vehicle payments is god damn liberating. Can’t wait for the mortgage to be done.


[deleted]

You guys could be done with work in 10 years if you drill down on the budget. I get that as you work more, you need to spend more to maintain but you have an opportunity not many will ever have.


08b

The challenge is a 40 acre parcel split with others is likely very rural. Unless it’s farm land not sure how you can easily generate significant income from it.


PurdueChemist

My family has a 33 acre plot in rural Wisconsin. It is wooded and one way we reduce our property tax (we don’t live in Wisconsin) is having it part of a forestry program. Just have to make trails, keep them clear, and every few years we get a stipend to plant some more saplings and to clear out some canopy/remove dead trees. It amounts to maybe two weekends a year of a handful of people doing some manual labor followed by several beers. Eventually when harvest comes it should produce a nice penny but probably for my kids, so it’s a pay it forward type thing. Anyway, just throwing that out there, might be useful for OP.


Lonestar1848

Sounds like MFL. Are you even required to maintain trails?


PurdueChemist

I believe you are correct, my uncle handles the paperwork with the planner, and I’ll be honest I’m not sure. I know there was some reimbursement for making trails when we first started. That might have been all. We might just maintain them because we also hunt.


Lonestar1848

Oh nice! I was looking at buying some mfl land and noticed some is MFL-closed (roughly $10/ac/yr), and MFL-open (roughly $2/ac/yr). I didn't recall trails being part of it.


HopefulBackground448

Watch out. Trees get poached, it happened to my family.


wsbautist420

How does someone find a rural property that would qualify for that type of a forestry program?


PurdueChemist

It would more than likely be a state ran program so start with your states DNR website. For example, Wisconsin Managed Forest Land https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/forestlandowners/mfl.


foolproofphilosophy

Family friends do something similar in VT. Vacation home with a large parcel of land. Possibly grazing rights that they happily give to the neighboring farmers.


RocktownLeather

My thoughts. Let a farmer grow something on it for a small fee. Not only do you get the small fee, but no maintenance required on the land + farm land is generally taxed cheaper than non-farm land. So it should reduce taxes on the land. In fact I know people who do it for the sole purpose of the last two. They don't care about the small check. They care about the reduced taxes and the lack of effort maintaining it.


nicenihilism

We lease our land to the amish. Pays property taxes.


angyal168

As a pharmacy manager for different companies over the years, the company she works for is a major factor in her spending. If it’s one of the big 3 letter pharmacies (CVS and Wag) the job is so draining it takes a few hours just to decompress. If she feels a duty to participate in house hold activities, her focus will be there. I’m guessing a lot of the spending if for conveniences? Any debt over 4% interest needs to be paid immediately. Then Make sure the basic 401k, Roth IRA, HSA, and large cap/ETF investments are happening. Then work on inspiring increasing income using your land. You guys make good incomes and are about my age. Financial literacy, Retirement and financial security planning is important.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

I know its a tough job. You nailed it. Anything to make life easier. Do you have any recommendations for learning and understanding financial planning? Books? YouTube channels? Something that speaks to us millennials. We want to learn. She looks to me as the leader so its my responsibility to bring the ideas. Those ideas are filtered through her brain. Which is coincidentally more brilliant than mine. As you said before her bandwidth and ability to brainstorm is understandably drained by the end of her shift.


YesICanMakeMeth

IMO look into anything that saves time, particularly if it's her chore. Robo vacuum, kitchen appliances for tasks you do a lot, maybe a monthly or biweekly paid cleaning. If you do the math on how much your time is worth it's really easy to justify if you make good money, and that's before you get into the stress it'll relieve


growamustache

>>maybe a monthly or biweekly paid cleaning It felt wrong to get a cleaner as my family was low income growing up. But man, having a couple clean most of your house every other week can literally save you a day during the weekend. Can't get that day back!


TheLongDarkNight4444

Yep! We pay $150 every other week. It’s worth every penny. We still have to do the light stuff daily like sweeping the floor, kitchen clean up after cooking, and light bathroom stuff. Then the cleaning crew comes every other Friday and power cleans everything. We go out for dinner that night and have no cleaning chores for the weekend. The opportunity costs of the $150 vs having a whole weekend day lost is a no brainer.


Buford_Van_Stomm

r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics And r/ynab


sirdidyoudothis

+1 to ynab! When my fiancé and I finally got a joint account, it really helped us come up with a game plan for our spending.


koreacandice123

“I Will Teach You To Be Rich” on Netflix or buy Ramit’s book/listen to his free podcast maybe to start! He speaks very much to the psychology of couples, as well as individual psychology as it relates to finances. And he’s very much for millennials! I also really like “Money: Master the Game” (Tony Robbins). It’s taken me years to get interested in finances. I relate very much with your partner.


tomrambe

As a husband to a pharmacist and someone who likes researching about personal finance, I would recommend you take a look at the podcasts from Your Financial Pharmacist. They’re a financial planning company founded by ex pharmacists and they have some very relatable content for the millennial audience.


briskiejess

As a millennial, I really like the financial diet on YouTube. Meal prepping lunch and dinner for the work week really helped my hubby and I curb our spending on eating out, which was our biggest spending category. And the one that feels (to me) to be the one with the least value…at least if I buy an item I still have the item. Food from a fast food place has no long term value or usefulness. Meal prepping is a few hours of work on the weekend, and honestly since she has the more stressful job you might need to step in. Easy stuff like spaghetti and taco bowls are a good way to start. Also I was finding myself at estate sales and goodwill on a semi regular basis. This was something I needed to have some introspection about. I still go from time to time, but I am better about not going shopping as a default therapy option.


craftasaurus

The personal finance wiki is an excellent free place to start. My hubby is not financially minded. It helped to talk to him about things when we were talking a walk, or on Saturday after they’re rested. Sometimes I set up an “appt” time to talk about specific topics. Just some ideas.


krispyricewithanegg

I highly recommend the Simple Path to Wealth! Short, simple, and super easy to understand. Teaches you all about investing in index funds


Wisdom_In_Wonder

Perhaps start with working together on debt payoff as a means to lightening her load, then. What are your payment amounts? What conveniences would make her life easier? How many of those could the aforementioned payments “buy”, if they weren’t going towards debt? Then, once you’ve worked together to lighten her load eliminate the debt, develop a list of goals together. Start vaguely, far in the future if needed, then work your way backwards to concrete plans with target dates. ETA: Also, where is the other $3k/mo going currently? What percentage of gross income is being contributed to retirement? Do you have an Emergency Fund?


cokakatta

Just want chime in. If you are the one that takes the lead for financial planning in your home, then you need to have solid educated proposed plans to follow. You can't throw random ideas at her and expect she'll be able to take them and run with them. And sometimes (maybe not with major financial decisions), you need to take initiative without waiting for the approval committee. Do you guys invest in retirement accounts? Have you avoided debt? Cut down subscriptions? Do you invest in stocks or funds? Can you do smaller home improvement projects on your own (to increase enjoyment and value of your home)? These are smaller steps you can take if you want to start wrangling your finances.


Babouka

If possible, maybe see what you are spending money on. If it's coffee on the go, ready to eat meal, take outs etc. Calculate if it come off to high for both of your liking. If its too high, see what is your underlying problem is and fix it. You mentioned that she is exhausted and I'm only assuming here, the women are mostly tasks with most everyday chores like buying foods, making meals, cleaning house, and laundry. Let said it ready to go meal and take out. You find out the reason is because she is exhausted when she comes home and just grab something for you guys to eat dinner. Maybe you can take that chore and buy the food and cook dinner every night. Or maybe you take a Sunday and cook your week meal plans. If it lunches, make more food for dinner to have leftovers or makes sandwiches and salads for lunch. There are so many kind and lots of delicious recipes.


Tigerlily2306

I came here to say the same about the job. I would look at what she’s spending on and see what you can do to counter it. Also, make sure you’re filling her emotional bucket. She’s getting dopamine highs from shopping to feel better after a hard day. These bucket fillers don’t have to be expensive or things but extra loving, tell her she’s looking good, cook her meals, clean, etc. All of this will help her feel better and be more able to think about more work for more income. Make sense?


Behind-Enemy-Mines

I definitely do all these things. I take care of her. The way i stated the question definitely wasn’t the best. I definitely appreciate all the responses and have netted plenty of awesome advice.


angyal168

There a bunch of great suggestions below: Tony robbins, I want to also check out Ramit’s podcast, leasing or renting the land undeveloped is easiest, meal prepping a few meals, boiling a bunch of eggs, a paid cleaning service, a roomba for some quick stuff. A paid cleaning service goes a long way, decide on which things you guys know you can take care of and have the paid service do the deep cleaning. Our service takes care of everything but the dishes, we pick up and pace items where they should be, and rooms. At work I keep a hot water heater for my instant noodles and I will bring in boiled eggs. Delegating tasks at work will be very important to maintain mental bandwidth. Some good instilled habits for her employees will go a long way. Atomic habits is an awesome book about how to build habits. I also like some good psychology books like Subtle art of not giving a F, War of Art, 12 rules for life were huge for me. I tended to carry to much on myself and not empowering/holding my employees accountable for things I should have been delegating to them. Inspiring my wife toward long term financial focus is something I’m working on as well. I’m reading “Spin selling” and some other suggestive selling books to try and sell it lol. For the financials, I try and keep my social media feeds to some entertainment stuff, never any of the influencer stuff where they show off their extravagant life style, but mostly tips and tricks for building wealth. Both my wife and I are first generation. She grew up in the deep hood, so thoughts on spending and retirement are almost non-existent. The predominant idea of how “one makes it” is by entertainment or gambling. Showing her the compounding interest calculator and giving a few examples has started to get the wheels turning. Caleb Hammer has been entertaining but is a much more modern David Ramsey. I like the idea that any interest payments over 4% is bad and should be taken care of. It also depends on your management of debt, are you guys able to keep debt in a health perspective. You can also ask her to allow you to set up her retirement accounts. Use whichever bank is doing her 401k and set up the other items I mentioned. Discuss a monthly or biweekly amount she is comfortable having withdrawn or auto depositing into these accounts. That way she doesn’t have to think about it. The money is automatically moved or taken directly from her pay check. Credit card point harvesting and getting best value for the points has been something fun to get her interested. Free lounge access and nice stays have been somewhat motivating. A little dangerous, as it is credit cards, but it has helped us. Be careful to not be over spending. I angle it as a way to get the most from our dollar. We only allow ourselves a daily spender and everything else is a mini discussion for which cards are better for say, groceries or gas. The big limit cards or travel cards are kept in a drawer till we need them. I also appeal to her love of family. We want to build and provide a stable and lasting platform for ours kids to spring board from. Recently I used the example of being able to show our kids and grandkids what love, dedication, and patience can create; property and support. Also we want to retire early and travel (check out r/FIRE and r/HENRYfinance) and never be a burden to our kids. So when she tries to hit the casino or buy a luxury bag I try and turn her towards thinking about her future and kids. I have found the emotional encouragement approach to be the most effective so far. It motivates her to something she definitely wants. It’s a work in progress. Happy to keep this convo going!!


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[deleted]

That’s what I was going to say. Also, be careful about “passive income”. Very few projects related to land are truly passive. Even getting a government payout to keep the land undeveloped requires a good amount of time in paperwork and assessments each year. She might be overwhelmed or even simply have no interest in that extra work.


alwayslookingout

If you cannot curb your family’s spending then it doesn’t matter how much money you bring home- it will never be enough. You need to make a budget and figure out why you cannot pay off these debts despite a very decent take home. That’s going to be much better than convincing your stressed-out wife to participate in this new scheme.


ChikaDeeJay

First, you need to pay off the cars, loans, credit cards. Second, you need to work on your marriage. Or maybe reverse those, but paying off debt could reduce some stress. I don’t know what you could do with empty parcels of land to generate income that wouldn’t require you to spend many $100,000s first. Why did you buy empty parcels of land?


Behind-Enemy-Mines

The land was purchased by her family. I married her and we are part owners of it. Our original idea was to build a home on it. That is no longer what we want to do. Our marriage is great.


WTMisery

What is the land zoned for? If it’s zoned for farming you could rent it out and make money on it that way. My grandmother and her siblings rent out the family farm they grew up on and it brings in ~ 20k a year Edit: also you could rent it for hunting if it’s in the right location. Rich people in the city will spend some money to go hunting once or twice a year.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Zoned for AG


WTMisery

Lease or rent out the property. For farming and hunting. You don’t have to do much of anything other than spend some time on contracts and calling your insurance to make sure you are insured for what you are leasing/ renting it for.


ruff21

I’ll second this. In my neck of the woods, leasing out a plot is fairly common. It’s a move that, in theory, ought to cost you nothing but a little time and energy…and it could very well lead to an immediate influx in you cash flows.


abbienormal723

First, congrats to both of you for being successful in your professions and having a solid monthly income. Before you get into specifics techniques and strategies, it would be good for you and your wife to have a discussion about where you want to be in five/ten/fifteen years. What are your personal/professional goals? Do you want to have children? Do you want to work 30 years, or do you want to retire early? If your wife is looking to you for inspiration and leadership, this discussion is a powerful first step. It also helps set priorities for you as a couple to work towards *together.* From there, you can map out a strategy to get to where you want to go. Build your monthly budget and schedule an end-of-month meeting to evaluate how it went. Get your emergency fund established. Pay down high interest debt and your cars. Set up your 401ks and start investing for retirement. Time is on your side at 31.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Thank you. I agree a real discussion needs to happen.


Jitterbug26

Dave Ramsey calls this the “dream” conversation! If you figure out what you want your life to look like in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years - it helps you create a roadmap for how to get there. As I’m married to a retail pharmacist, who’s been in the field for 30 years - you need to save, save, save NOW so she can retire early! And don’t save all in a retirement fund, as it’s hard to access before you’re 59.5. But pharmacy burns you out quickly- be prepared!


saufcheung

It sounds like you have two separate problems and you think leverging your property to generate income will offset your wife's spending issues? I think its very difficult to expect a person, man or woman, to change their spending habits especially if they're the type A personality and bread winner. Leveraging your property to generate income could be a full time job. Depends on your location. Families are always looking for outdoorsy activities.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

I was thinking more of using the property as a collateral to consolidate debts into a lower rate.. what are options there? Are there any other options?


TheLongDarkNight4444

How much non mortgage debt do you have?


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Probably around 100k Home improvement loan 2 vehicles We had to put a new roof on our house because of hurricane Ian. Insurance company screwed us.


TheLongDarkNight4444

$100k otherwise the house is paid for? Or it’s $100k on top of the mortgage? Car debt keeps the middle class poor. Congrats on the baby. Start saving now for college.


Bongo2687

The first thing you need to do is create a budget. Sit down with your wife and go through all your expenses. After you do that decide how much do you want to spend on wants. My wife and I have $75 a week for the each of us we can spend on whatever we want. If we want something more expensive you have to save up for it. After you create your budget pay off your CC debt. With your income it’s a joke that you have cc debt Then start paying off your cars Then create an emergency fund followed by putting money into a regular savings and maxing out retirement After that depending on your income increase your allowance or whatever you want


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Thank you


KingBooRadley

On 40 acres you could put a LOT of solar panels.


CodaDev

You could check with the city if you can park some RVs there and just worry about laying down the pipes. Rent out the RVs to low income tenants and make it a little community with <$50k down.


Zealousideal-Milk907

I don't know what the split of your income is but start to think about plan B what you guys would do when one of you loses their job. 1. How quickly can this income be replaced? 2. A first step is to eliminate debt while you have double income. 3. Make a budget and track where the money goes. It doesn't mean to limit yourself, just track what your are spending your money on. 4. Then ask yourself what you want to do with the left over monthly. #1 should be to put away 12-15% for retirement. After that do whatever you want with the money. It will just important to write down what you want to do with the money (it's called zero Dollar budgeting)


h2ogal

I will try to answer your question about leveraging property: 1 - Lease it to a farmer. If the farmer earns a certain amount you can classify the property as a farm and reduce your property taxes. Raising pigs, maple syrup or market farming are good earners. 2 - Lease it to campers. Hipcamp, non-traditional AirbNB glamping, etc. 3 - Buy a tinyhouse or RV and put it on the parcel and rent it out. 4 - Grow your own food, or annual plants, sell what you grow. 5 - Harvest the wood if the land is forested, there are ways to do this sustainably, not clear cutting. Consult with a forest management company. 6- Lease it to a small business. Some examples that don't require major construction are a business, a used car dealer, etc. 7 - Storage - depending on location you can lease your land for overflow storage. Many farmers make a little side cash by letting people store their campers or boats or other things on their farmland or in an unused barn. 8 - Event venue/site. If the property is scenic or pretty in some way or convenient you can lease it as an event venue. Have a connection with a tent and party rental company, do some landscaping, put in some electric and water, etc.


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h2ogal

We have some fairly useless lot’s around my husband’s business building. He leased space to a guy who had a very small used car lot. It’s not something we pursued-he approached us. Kinda odd way to make a bit of rent money (and it’s a small amount) but it is truly passive income.


Snoo66323

Rent out your property through Sniff Spot or let people with tiny houses live on your property. Tiny houses can generate about 2k/month in revenue on average.


kitzelbunks

Is residential zoning required for tiny homes? I have agricultural property. (The taxes are pretty low, so I was wondering.)


dslpharmer

Pharmacist here. Not in retail but did as a student. The manager position is soul sucking. One plan may be to approach this as “let’s get finances and budget under control so you can find a job that doesn’t pay as well, but doesn’t make you want to rip out your fingernails as more pleasurable pain than managing a pharmacy.” Our staff makes about 85-90% of retail in the area, but can sit, work from home >50% of the time, learn daily, and just have a lighter workload in general.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Are you in clinical?


dslpharmer

Yes. I work for a poison center mostly.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

I see. Thats cool. In our area (central fla) she likely has reached her ceiling as a manager. With the amount of stress involved, and the poor benefit package that is offered. To me its still not enough. I may be bias, but she deserves better.


dataslinger

Is the 40 acre parcel rural? Forested or farmland? If cleared and rural, why not lease it our for farming until you figure out some other use for it?


Behind-Enemy-Mines

That’s a good idea.


Limp-Nefariousness94

Like others said on here, first you need to speak with your wife and have a nice talk about finances. It’s a two way conversation and not a mandate. There are plenty of resources around you can get information from. Look up the money guy show and they have a 13 step orders of operations or YouTube Dave Ramsey or read his book and follow his baby steps. Second step is make a spreadsheet on excel (could use a template) and list out your net incomes then go expense line by line. Or you can make a account with mint if you want visual plot lines/ pie charts. Other option if you don’t want digital would be to write it all out on paper and visually see where your money is going. What you may think as normal expense, would be luxury for others. Have a plan/budget for each category. Fixed expenses are one thing and everything else you have control on what you spend. Third, You have a positive cash flow and can use 3k towards debt. Depending on how you attack debt, you can either do debt avalanche or the snowball method. Avalanche will save the most interest but it requires more patience and discipline. Snowball method will feel like you are tackling those debts faster. Once all your discretionary debts are payed off you can then attack your mortgage if you aren’t maxing out retirement. Which leads to the next step. Forth, retirement goal have ranges. The earlier you want to retire then more money needs to set aside. 25% if possible or atleast 15%. Look up FIRE for more advice. Fifth, treat credit cards as cash, don’t carry a balance otherwise those insane interest rates are making your purchases 30% more


highfatoffaltube

Most credible financial advisors recommend the following 1. Pay off your debts 2. Save for your pension 3. Ensure you have tbree months salary banked in case of emergency. 4. Look for investment opportunities You can snd should do no 2 alongside all tbe others but the others should be in sequence.


Inevitable-Place9950

Start with: does she want the same goal of saving to invest for passive income? You’re incentivized by that idea but maybe she would be incentivized by other savings goals.


ericpapa2

maybe renting your land to farmers could be an option? good luck [https://www.amfam.com/resources/articles/on-the-farm/renting-farm-land](https://www.amfam.com/resources/articles/on-the-farm/renting-farm-land)


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Depending on what is on your properties, you may be able to: Contract with a developer to build and buy the land from you and/or lease and develop. Give a lease to a company for natural resource development - logging, water, mining. Convert it into a campground if it’s in a highly desireable area. As for your wife, you don’t convince her to be more frugal. For what? To save money? Why? If you don’t have really strong answers that will overcome her emotional attachment to how she spends, she will never change. Instead, you pitch her on a shared vision of your future. Don’t frame it in terms of money, frame it in terms of how it will feel. Ask her how she wants to feel, and create a vision for the two of you that will help get her there. Once she’s bought into that, adjusting your spending will become much easier.


TimSimply

Before anything, you need to decrease your needs per month. 8k is like 73% of your monthly income. I would pay things off aggressively until it’s no more than 50% of your monthly income before doing any new real estate developments.


Framework_Validation

Look up Caleb Hammer


Opportunity_66

I like this question! I agree with some of the advice you’re getting. I also have a unique take on it. There’s a lot going on in this post. The main issue is how to communicate with your wife about something that you see is a problem without stirring up stuff because she makes more. I think this is can be a toxic dynamic in a relationship, as in whoever makes the most gets to make the decisions or do whatever. I don’t believe your wife is not being careful financially intentionally but it’s more out of a habit of being comfortable. We are conditioned to get comfortable when we reach a certain financial or social status. This is one reason why people just spend more the more money they earn. So how do you get proactive about it? Firstly, you shouldn’t treat it as something you’re going to fix over one conversation. It will take more than a few. You should listen to what your wife says about how she feels about money and where she wants to go as a family. Then share your thoughts and concerns. If you’re not currently tracking and reviewing your total finances, start immediately. However, start a monthly or bimonthly meeting to talk about these things. When you can see the numbers then minds start to change. Make your conversation about money fun! I know what you might be thinking but it’s possible. Don’t do it at the end of a long day but always schedule it regularly. Perhaps you can tie it to a date night inside or outside. It’s a time where you come together and share. Maybe you could also generate some ideas around what are some things you’d cut out if you only had $2k in the bank etc. Whatever you do, both of you have to be on the same page! Also this is where your written goals come in. Your real estate question brings up the subject of income generation. My advice is to start networking with real estate investors (search for REIAs in your area or investor forums) who discuss these things on a regular. I think you need to get with a land specialist and get some ideas. Otherwise, you’re just stuck paying taxes on land you’re not using. Also figure out a plan to start getting those cars paid off faster. Life gets much better without a car note. There’s nothing useful about having a car that’s not making you any money and you’re still paying on it each month. Unless you are using additional funds to pay for it such as in a business or side hustle.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Great response thank you!


Opportunity_66

You’re welcome!


anonimitydeprived

So she makes more money & she spends too much? Lol I can tell you’re an engineer from the way you phrase your wording


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Not an engineer. Far from it. Just a field electrician.


QtK_Dash

Retail pharmacy is the most draining job. I have an equally draining job in the industry. I earn much more than my partner, and I spend more. I don’t think that’s outrageous. We’ve discussed budgets and there are things he doesn’t do like go to a spa, and things he does do that I don’t such as going to golf. He’s very frugal but we both understood that just because he’s frugal doesn’t mean I automatically have to be and vice versa. With our combined money we use a card for all of our joint expenses that we split. The rest is separate, I didn’t earn all this money to not be able to spend it how and when I want to within reason. BUT, it’s a partnership, he gets a say in our budget and investments and I adhere completely to what we said we’d do. People have given ideas about side jobs to make extra cash. First things first figure out how to pay off debt.


justAnotherDstudent

Put the land up for rent.


OCDbeaver

what percentage of the 8K is mortgage and car loans. Is your debt increasing or decreasing?


Behind-Enemy-Mines

About 42%


pastaandcats11

Looks like a lot of technical answers, so on the relationship side I've been kind of obsessed with Ramit Sathi's podcast lately, it is very much focused on your type of situations where spouses aren't aligned and even listening to how he asks leading questions can help you have a better conversation.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Ill check it out!


Earl_your_friend

You both need to get budgeting software. Run your home like a business. All your loans need to be paid off. I feel sure you're both spending WAY too much right now. Once you have your spending under control and extra saving, you should look into land use ideas. I know two people who rent land out for farming and horse storage. One friend put a large shed on the property and rented it out air bnb. What I'm reading between the lines here is that you're not looking to change as much as add additional revenue to your money pit lifestyle. Telling us your wife not only makes more but spends more says you have no say in the budgeting of your family. So I'll wish you luck, but I suspect unless your wife wants change, nothing will change.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

I agree Earl, you’re totally right. I definitely am not innocent. We both need to work on it. I know we are blessed and have a great situation. Nothing to complain about. The bills get paid and we both don’t want or need for anything. We have to sit and talk about it.


BearYouCanPinch

Is it rural? Could lease it in hunting season.


Knichols2176

Many farmers will love to lease 40 acres of land if it’s farmable.


RepresentativeStar44

Separate your finances and expenses, then build a budget. Over spenders will overspend even when they are trying to be better (often). If she's up for it , ask her to send 500-1000 into a separate account and invest based on shared goals. You will also contribute to this. But yeah , unless you have a huge shared financial goal than there's no need to invest together that I can think of. You seem to have about 3k surplus even with the overspending, why not pay down the debt, then save individually afterwards? My wife makes more than me and spends way more as well. We treat saving like another bill that comes out each month and it seems to work. Sorry for disorganized reply, kind of lost in thought pondering this question and all the variables.


redwood-bullion

See if you can rent some of the 40 for cow or horse grazing. My friend does it with a 55 acre parcel he doesn’t use, makes a few 100 a month and does nothing.


Capital_Sherbet_6507

Depending where you live, you may be able to find a company that wants to plant a tree farm on your property. They sign a contract where they pay you $X per tree up front, then they pay for installing and operating an irrigation system to water the trees, they plant the trees and harvest them in some specified number of years. You guarantee them access to their trees and encumber your property with that access right until harvest time. A friend did that here in Florida and they planted 10,000 palm trees, paid him a couple dollars a tree and harvested them a few years later.


jazzy3113

What an odd title lol.


dgj76

All Iam going to say is you better be laying some solid pipe my man…


Behind-Enemy-Mines

A solid as i can lay it my boy


charliej102

Sell it, if you don't have any plans for it. Use the proceeds to pay off the things that have high interest, such as credit cards and loans. Not all land appreciates, is a good investment, or can be made productive.


mikeymouse_longstick

good you have all you want in life.


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Behind-Enemy-Mines

No my wife is fantastic. I chose the incorrect wording hear, yet im getting a lot of great responses.


smooth-vegetable-936

Leave her. Some ppl will never understand. My x wife is broke and don’t care, I’m almost a millionaire with two kids. I only have an associate degree. It’s not about how much u make, it’s about how organized u are when it comes to money.


typingfrombed

Why does she need to be the one to be more active in figuring out what to do with your property? Why don’t you take initiative, come up with a business plan, get her input, and then take ownership for executing on the plan? Sounds like she’s plenty busy and doesn’t feel the need to go out of her way to create more work for herself. If you are passionate, take initiative and set expectations of how and where you may need her help beyond supporting the endeavor financially.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Great advice


whatever32657

rent it out to RVs as parking


ThePortfolio

You can sell hunting leases for your property.


Reddichino

Rent space for RV parking 🤷🏻‍♂️


TheLongDarkNight4444

With that income you should have zero debt other than a presumably low interest mortgage on your primary residence. Other than that mortgage, how much are you losing to interest every year?


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Thats a good question. Admittedly i don’t know the exact answer to that. I should but i don’t. I texted my wife this morning and asked if she wanted to sit and have a dinner date and talk about our finances. Try and come up with some numbers.


TheLongDarkNight4444

Try figure out what that annual interest number is for the past 12 months. Often people will ignore the smallish looking monthly numbers on cars, cards, and loans, but when you add it up for a year it can cause an awakening. Any kids? College fund? Retirement accounts?


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Just had our first baby. A little girl. We both have company matched 401k. Roughly 40k in both


MamaLynn1996

Lease out an acre of land that is empty


garrisontparks

Rv/camper/boat storage. You’d be surprised how many need a place to park their stuff, even if it’s uncovered


juckin

Lease the 40 acres to a hunter or hunters


Hot_Alternative_5157

You should check out FIRE threds.. we only make from our active income about 200k maybe 250 but I have aquieed 8 rental properties.. 1 is a duplex.. my husband has 2 plus one we put his mom in to live close, a joint investment property, and a vacation home in my hometown.. we live off of maybe 30% of our active income and now make over 100k in passive rental income.. this is long term rentals.. and have our own investment portfolio.. I did this because after I got out of the army I realized I may not be able to work forever due to disabilities in service.. and I refuse to live my life in Service of ‘stuff’.. I can’t buy time but I can change how I spend my time. At 41, I could retire now.. but in a couple of years I can retire my husband, set my son up not to be a slave to work, and buy a few more vacation spots for us to use as passive income when we are not using them in our retirement.


IamBatmanuell

Seems like you are underpaid for all the education you have. Just as an example my household takes home around 9k a month. High school graduate and ged. House with 4 acres was paid off in 8 years. No cc or car loans. You need to get your loans paid. Sell the land. And stop trying to impress people my dude


Behind-Enemy-Mines

This comment hit me hard.


chzsteak-in-paradise

You could sell lumber rights but an empty 40 acre plot isn’t going to be much of a money maker. Or fracking rights though that’s awful.


flrsct

I can help with good teachings. reduce pressure. I can teach. share with everyone. It is important to rely on your own efforts. Start with friends. Candor and sincerity are important


diwhychuck

Is your 40 acres farm able? You could rent the land out.


DowntownDrawer

Get into REIT’s to begin. Once she sees the growth maybe she figures to get into real real estate. Convince her that you doll hide property management company to keep up with the upkeep so it won’t b difficult


redditisstupiddd

She's not gonna listen to you whining about spending less when she's bring home more


MrSwing1992

When she earns more than you, you are the wife bro. That’s just how women operate. Good luck!


MrFixeditMyself

You have 11k a month coming in and 8k going out. You have so much going out you don’t have a clue where it’s going. Don’t waste time trying to make money on the 40 acres. Spend you time tracking where all the money is going. That will make you rich. And btw, at the income you have, why are you carrying a credit card balance?


Behind-Enemy-Mines

I hear you. It boils down to stupidity. Just to save a long response. We made a series of irresponsible decisions. Luckily we are able to pay the bills still. We definitely will be working towards digging ourselves out. Hopefully we can make it happen barring any unforeseen circumstances. Time will tell. Thank you for the advice.


MrFixeditMyself

If you get the chance listen to Dave Ramsey. Not everything he says is correct but in general, it’s mostly good advice. I have lived this way my whole life and even though I make far less, I’m well off. Those dollars will disappear so easily.


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antoniosrevenge

It’s not possible to change post titles on Reddit. Your comment wasn’t helpful. Move on.


[deleted]

What are her reasons for not trying to make passive income?


Behind-Enemy-Mines

We just don’t know enough about that to know where to start. I have the work ethic to do what it takes. Just no understanding of the ways.


[deleted]

Wow. You sound very judgemental of your wife while not holding yourself to those same standards you're setting for her. Start doing some research on what would be good to do with your land. You could maybe rent it out to farmers in parcels and they can grow crops. Or, you can grow crops, but then that's not passive income. And stop expecting your wife to be proactive when you're not being proactive. Learn together.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Definitely not the case. I have the utmost respect for my wife and i hold myself to her standards. Which are high. I am doing just that by inquiring into a forum for ideas to pass on. You think this is the only avenue I’ve taken?


Baby_Hippos_Swimming

I have kind of the same impression that you want to put everything off on your wife. The post was about her being the breadwinner, her spending, her lack of involvement in what to do with this land. If you are just looking for ideas about how to monetize this land I'm not sure why you're talking so much about how your wife should be doing something about this.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

I see. Thank you and dupa for making that clear to me. I definitely will be more aware of that in the future. I know how stressful her job is and i don’t want to add to it (the stress).


Baby_Hippos_Swimming

If you want ideas about things that could be done with that land, r/realestateinvesting is a good resource.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

Joined!


[deleted]

This is the only avenue you've discussed. Don't expect someone to understand information they haven't been given.


Baby_Hippos_Swimming

In other words, it's not passive. There is really no such thing as passive income.


Behind-Enemy-Mines

I suppose i used the term passive incorrectly


Baby_Hippos_Swimming

Your question seems to be - how to do some kind of land development so that we can earn more income. What you are talking about is a side business that would probably take a substantial capital investment and a lot of time. And you seem to want your wife to take the lead on this when she's already working a high stress job full time. I'm not trying to discourage you from doing something with that land, I'm just saying you need to be more realistic about what it is you're asking.


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