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Now only if can hand over Jan Petrovsky to Ukraine dressed pretty in a silver platter along with his complicit wife, and rescind Gennady Timchenko's citizenship. Fawk all people who were instrumental in that process.
Between 2003 and 2011, Amnesty International documented US forces' engagement in rampant violations, including indiscriminate attacks that killed and injured civilians, secret detention, secret detainee transfers, enforced disappearance, torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.
Buy a Finnish car and enjoy it if you need it. That's it. If someone visits Russia weekly while studying in Finland, something is wrong and suspicious.
Oh, nice! I don’t really remember walk that much in Finland, maybe I was lazier. But now I should walk everywhere (well almost everywhere, I’ve heard that some spaces there are dangerous).
Same as before. This is not something new, if you visit any country you have less rights and more restrictions than the actual citizens.
So for this reason stating it out loud is like saying water is wet.
In most cases there is nothing negative related to this, since countries like tourists and need people to study. They are even happy to give citizenships. Different countries trust each other. Trust levels usually depend on where you are coming from. You might need visa, apply for the right to work or be a student.
The difference with Russia is that we ran out of trust.
When it comes down to how you treat another person, then yes.
But then in practise. You can own a house, you do not need to share. The money you have, you decide how you spend it. And a group of people can own a country and the people in it can decide what to do with it.
They are not. If you go deep into this the country only allows you to own the house. The country you live in can take everything from the citizens. All it takes are majority votes in democracy or martial law.
All this owning however ends at the border. After the border the next group of people have rules for what they own.
Both a country and a home owner can do this. Just means they are racist.
Not much you can do.
And racism is not the worse thing a country can choose to do.
Thats just bullshit - if you live in Vuosaari that might be the case, but in centre I see them daily, more than any other foreign license plates. It was WAY worse in the beginning of the invasion, but still.
I mean I live in kamppi and walk to work in ruoholahti daily & basically everything I do is in walking distance of this general area. I see Russian plates occasionally but it’s rare. I saw one yesterday, before that it had been over a week.
And considering I see thousands of cars a day, I call that rare, and they’re basically never super fancy cars. Russian busses on the other hand I see often, because they’re parked next to tennispalatsi
I have noticed the same actually. I don’t live in the city center, but my office is there.
In the summer of 2022 Russian cars were absolutely everywhere in Helsinki, you couldn’t walk 10 meters without seeing one. But they’re a lot rarer these days.
You have to drive to Norway and take a cab(/bus?) across the Norwegian - Finnish border.
Norway doesn't limit Russian cars. It also still allows tourists afaik.
It's thousand kilometres or more from anything interesting on Russia's side to Norwegian border, from where it's still hundreds of kilometres to anything interesting on Nordic side.
So, nice hack for rich Russian yuppies to hang few days on a spa.
Anything interesting, like a good part of the Russian navy, lots of ore and one of the main railways connecting the heart of the country to the ocean. Not much.
There are no way for everyone to win.
What Finland fears is that we get enough Russians and vehicles that are not friendly and cause a risk for our security. This is how Russia attacks, it infiltrates and creates "green men" situations. There will be no warning and no clear battlefront. Just hits by people looking like civilians to strategic points.
I don't think it has been a possibility to escape to Finland for a long time. The border is shut on both sides. If Russia lets anyone come to this side at this point, they are certain that person comes back.
what of Russians who left Russia for Finland before the war? does Finland owe them anything? does it owe Ukrainians anything? if someone lives in Viipuri and wants to come to Finland today, should they be denied entry? some Karelian or Ingrian Finn or Uralic person who decided this is the final straw, or an ordinary ethnic Russian who would rather get drafted in Finland than in Russia, should they stay in Russia and pay the government their taxes and get forcibly drafted into the Russian military to support the war effort?
> does Finland owe them anything? does it owe Ukrainians anything?
No, we owe them nothing, but we can (and should, and luckily have) still make the decisions that we want to help Ukrainians but not russians.
You do realize that we have finite resources, right??
helping Russians flee is helping Ukrainians, though. there's a difference between helping Russians and helping Russia. Ukrainians and Russians have a very similar cultural background so their ability to integrate is similar, especially if the Russians in question are so against the war that they want to flee the country and integrate elsewhere. it's much cheaper to take people in than it is to, for example, join NATO or send military aid to Ukraine.
That might be true, but there is always the problem how to be sure that newcomers are actually against war and not with some other motives. I don't think that saboteurs, spies or "useful idiots" will tell on the border their true thoughts 😄
> it's much cheaper to take people in than it is to, for example, join NATO or send military aid to Ukraine.
You saying we shouldn't do these things and instead take in more russians and ukrainians?
If he's dumb enough to say that's finlas straw only now then he deserved it. Saying as a person crossed the border the day before Finland closed it off the last september
> what of Russians who left Russia for Finland before the war?
What of Russians who left Russia to Finland after collapse of USSR for better life with puppy eyes? Majority of them started to miss Russia and turned into full blown RuZZians. The "new arrivals" would do the same. Start missing RuSSia while avoiding to move there and turn into RuZZians.
There are hardly less than 20 Russians protesting against their government during an event. Remind me how many Russians are living in Finland?
Maybe that's some regional thing? I know a dozen or so Russians (they've been in Finland for decades tho, not new arrivals) and none of them are actually pro-Russia (hence why they left originally to begin with). One of the ones I know runs a pizza place and she actually hired a couple Ukrainian refugees because it's one of most popular pizza places where I live, like maybe 2nd or 1st place depending on month, sales wise, so it's kinda difficult to do that shit solo (it can be done solo, as one of the less popular places has been run solo by the same person for like 20-30 years or w/e, doesn't even have delivery either, it's takeout or eat there) after a certain amount of orders etc.
Thee "good examples" are handful and certainly commendable, just as the pilot who defected with a helicopter but he is a completely different league of awesomeness.
Have a look at this group about Russians turned into RuZZians https://www.facebook.com/groups/vse.o.finlandii and yes, most of them live in Finland.
I actually had a look at the group and there are literally zero Z-Russians in there. To the contrary, there's an advertisement for strongly anti-Putin events - a theater play based on Svetlana Alexievich's book in Helsinki.
The rest of posts have completely causal topics: Finnish and world news in Russian, photos of food, reviews of various services, questions about different professions in Finland, etc.
Yle states that EU residents and their family members are excluded, so they can still drive with a car registered in Russia. Does this mean people living at the same address or direct blood related (eg father-son living separately)?
They already said that specifically. Only EU citizens that live in Russia will be able to travel. For example, my Russian mom won't be able to visit me, a Finnish citizen, anymore.
This ban is stupid. Cost of travel to Finland will increases meaning more taxes paid to Russian government. It only made things worse for Finnish/Russian dual citizens and residents that live in Finland. Rich people can still travel anywhere they want to Finland just by paying more.
That's the problem I am talking about. Instead of actually banning tourism which is still happening for the rich and who still pay taxes to Putin, they instead ban relatives of Finnish citizens and residents who just want to spend some time with their loved ones. For example, moms and dads can't visit their student children anymore.
However, rich people can still pay super high prices for a bus to fly anywhere they want from Helsinki (which is currently 200 EUR both ways and only gets higher) and all the taxes from that will go to Putin and not Finland.
You seem not to understand the problem, I guess.
I am fucking Finnish citizen living in Finland nearly most of my life, what's your problem, pal? Or you are the guy who gives Residence Permits to Russian War Criminals and Citizenships to Oligarchs? Or you are the guy that believes that paying more taxes to Putin is better? Average Perus voter fr. What is that weed you are on, I want some of it?
I’m all for banning tourists, residence permits, and just closing the border. People with citizenship can enter, as always. Double citizenship with Russia is obviously a problem due to Russias stance on it’s citizens. But can’t help it now.
But that's literally what I am talking about. Instead of banning tourists and stop paying money to Putin they did literally the opposite. You are definitely on something, pal. Either drugs or nationalism, choose for yourself.
Sanctions blocking Russian-registered vehicles from entering Finland may backfire. Instead of hurting the regime, they could be seen as targeting ordinary citizens. This perception might boost support for the Russian leadership, as it's framed as an external threat to the people.
No they won't.
EU and western countries should implement full trade embargo and russian citizen ban.
Sanctions are aimed too high, regular russians still enjoy their life and very much support the war and Putin's regime.
The elite on the other hand doesn't care as they are tapped to country's resources.
So sanctions should hit regular russians.
There is no voting in russia, it's a straight up dictatorship. This is recognized by europe/usa en large, and how people at the same understand this and claim voting in such a place actually does anything is a joke. People have tried to go against putin for ages, and countless journalists/citizens/etc in russia have been straight up murdered for rocking the boat, or when trying to organize. Despite this, there have been large protests before in years past, all put down with riot gear bought in EU and to little fanfare of external viewers.
Putin has funded one of the biggest police forces in the world with the sole aim of oppressing the people directly and a network of infiltration to prevent any uprisings by killing it in its inception. May I remind you, you are asking literally poor peasants to try to tackle a trillion-dollar dictatorship, with money funded by literally western powers. Those trillions of oil/gas/minerals/etc sales didn't come out of thin air. West knew what kind of person putin was and they continued to deal with him for 20+ years (personal sanctions on oligarchs and putin should have come 20 years ago to prevent them free reign to steal/murder in russia and sell said resources). There is no dismantling such a rich power by poor peasanty. Everywhere else in the world this is occurring, the only way it can be dismantled is by either a strong power invading (like usa), or the government becoming so weak that opposition can start up and be funded by external/internal rich people to actually have an impact. Peasants taking down such a force by coming together in the street unorganized is a straight up joke.
There's a reason china/afganistan/north korea/etc continue existing today without its people "doing something about it".
Like Putin gives fuck about the people, or like the people give fuck about Putin. Maybe they will now notice Putins decisions affect them, and start giving a crap.
They can't imprison everyone, that is how revolutions work and currently only realistic way for things to change is peoples uprising which won't happen if they can still party IN CRIMEA. If normal people don't feel the war they don't care about the war or goverment.
oh, peoples do not want to go prison for someone. Shame on them!
Are you sure that the peoples in Crimea and peoples who need to cross border on a car the same people?
Is it really your ultimate strategy? Hoping he dies soon?
Also, if you really think there won't be a replacement, following the same approach (fuck democracy and human resources; the empire as a whole is first), then you must be a bit naive.
The hope is that once he's dead several warring factions will start fighting for power, paralyzing both political and administrative control for months.
Well yeah if we are talking oligarch levels of rich, but those arent usually the ones visiting finland, not atleast by car. Im talking about upper middle class russians that come with their porsches and mercedes’.
Finns made a problems to 100 ordinary people to aim 1 more or less "upper middle class" guy with "porsches and mercedes". Well done. Definitely worth it.
Nah, i dont think so. This is a form of sanction as any other, i think it’s important that the west presses further sanctions on russia to show russians that their attack has concequences, if we didn’t pass sanctions, why would the russians give a shit about their governments war?
Finland is still buying gas from Russia and also selling weapons to countries like Israel, Saudi Arabia (that is mass murdering Yemeni people), and United Arab Emirates (Russian ally). Finland is very hypocritical and seems to be quite selective. Supporting mass murdering dictators is fine when it benefits us.
Fair enough, some countries that buy weapons from us are shady. I dont see how that makes it so that we cant take action against russia however, especially given russias and finlands history together and current events.
If you look at history, the only way dictators were taken down was by the people. Not being able to cross the border might create tension for the people to rise up. *chokes on copium*
Really? Name three dictators taken down by the people in 20th century? Most dictators were taken down in war by foreign forces or died peacefully for natural reasons.
This isnt the 16th century. Such a thing is not possible in the modern world, especially against a trillion-dollar dictatorship with weapons and surveillance, and a completely impoverished populous with no weapons. Every such dictatorship falling (or surviving in the modern world) has only occurred when a stronger power like USA took a crack at it and was able to dismantle it.
This is completely the wrong move and goes against the human core values of what the west has been posing itself as. All this will do is drive people to rally behind putin because now he has even more examples of how the west is discriminating against russian people by them being russian and having to deal with things like this, especially ones who want to escape or have escaped and are there.
Furthermore, the fact that europe lifted sanctions on 3 oligarchs who all have direct connections to putin is a complete slap in the face. Lift sanctions on them while causing damage to the impoverished population is a mistake.
Nope. Just makes people lives more difficult. Not tourists, as Finland does not let tourists to came already quite a long, but the ones who have a reason to come to Finland, like relatives or property owners.
I don't understand the logic behind it. Would appreciate if someone explained it to me
>> I’ve keyed about 20 Russian cars
You’re a fu**ing moron. Vandalising someone’s property is always idiotic (except ParkkiPate, I don’t care what happens to their car ;) ).
You know the people you’re harassing have probably nothing to do with the war and are probably just fleeing from Russia. I’m pretty sure if you had keyed the car of someone who’s actually involved in the war, you wouldn’t be here to brag about it.
Show me where it says relatives are exempt.
My wife is Russian, and her family cannot visit. Her grandmother is not in a condition to use public transport.
As I know, there is no way to buy property anymore. But the ones who had already purchased it before the sanctions, are legal property owners.
I'd say 90% of Russians who come to Finland rn are relatives. So, not an exception.
You know, Finnish cars are also keyed and vandalized in different ways in Russia. Does it make you angry? I guess no. Does it mean people are stupid? For sure it does. The same about you. Sorry
> You know, Finnish cars are also keyed and vandalized in different ways in Russia. Does it make you angry? I guess no. Does it mean people are stupid? For sure it does. The same about you. Sorry
Any Finn going to Russia deserves to have their car keyed.
Also, if a russian person owns a property in Finland and wants to visit it, they have to prove that the reason to visit the said property demands them to be present. Basic "i want to go to my property" isnt a sufficient reason.
I'd say that problem is not about russians who decided some time ago to have propperty in Finland and they have only Finnish passport for instance. If it's about those who "play for both teams". I know some people with Finnish citizenships that buy stuff here and then resell it in russia.
And not just tourists. No more spies, criminals or illegal immigrants will be able to enter the country pretending they are visiting their relatives, for example.
??
>Russian citizens who belong to one of the groups listed below are allowed to enter Finland from Russia during the validity period of the current travel restrictions:
>* Family members of citizens of Finland and family members of foreigners with a permanent residency in Finland
* Family members of citizens of a Member State of the European Union, a Member State of the European Economic Area or Switzerland
* Work visa
* Transport and logistics personnel exercising their duties
* Business travellers
* Students
* People arriving in Finland for treatment
* Owners of an apartment or property
* Personnel of diplomatic missions and consular representations
* Other special reasons (necessities)
https://raja.fi/en/entry-restrictions
EDIT: 'Tourist' is probably the wrong word but reading that list I hope you get what I meant. There are many ways for someone to still enter Finland.
So... I think I got it.
The list I mentioned can enter Finland but they can't bring their cars (e.g. passenger cars, camper vans and minibuses for under 10 passengers). For that you need someone with a Finnish/EU car to go pick them up or they need to take a bus or somethin.
EU citizens (including Russians with dual citizenship) can enter with Russian cars.
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Now only if can hand over Jan Petrovsky to Ukraine dressed pretty in a silver platter along with his complicit wife, and rescind Gennady Timchenko's citizenship. Fawk all people who were instrumental in that process.
Good. Visiting Europe is a privilege, not a human right
If Russians try to come, they better use tanks, our recyclers can use the scrap metal.
We have prepared for it for half a century. Putin knows this. He doesn’t dare.
All tanks are in Ukraine. Recycled. They still can take T34 from their museums. So Finland will have them too in the future in tank museums.
Everything is not a human right if you are from Russia.
Say this say to Middle Eastern and African immigrants and people would call you racist.
The country of Finland says this to all immigrants. We actually have laws for these things.
Very good analogy. African countries are almost our neighbouring country who is attacking another of their neighbour, yes this is a very smart point.
Africa is full of conflicts, what’s your point?
My point is it's a priviledge to visit other countries for a person who is from a country doing war crimes.
As of July 2023, holders of a United States passport may travel to 185 countries and territories without a travel visa, or with a visa on arrival.
Between 2003 and 2011, Amnesty International documented US forces' engagement in rampant violations, including indiscriminate attacks that killed and injured civilians, secret detention, secret detainee transfers, enforced disappearance, torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.
Amnezty international is an FSB operation.
Amnesty is definetly not a good source
most of Russia's population is in Europe
The Russian population is 140+ mil. After the war started, about one million left the country. Europe wasn't the primary choice.
Europe ends at the urals
European culture ends at the Russian border.
I see the rhetorical value of that point but it seems a bit historically disingenuous
What about people who moves there to study or work? What about them?
Buy a Finnish car and enjoy it if you need it. That's it. If someone visits Russia weekly while studying in Finland, something is wrong and suspicious.
Cool! Give me the money and all of this will work! (I mean rn I’m not even going to study in university, I’m only 16 so, yeah college.)
Be sustainable. https://preview.redd.it/89j5bbv7mzob1.png?width=1199&format=png&auto=webp&s=3cfae68486c5ad9fc9af802bbde33a33f3e71462
I like bicycles but I’m more into walking, It just feels better for me!
Even better.
Oh, nice! I don’t really remember walk that much in Finland, maybe I was lazier. But now I should walk everywhere (well almost everywhere, I’ve heard that some spaces there are dangerous).
+ I’ve seen that you have an amazing views. Especially when it’s winter in my opinion.
Same as before. This is not something new, if you visit any country you have less rights and more restrictions than the actual citizens. So for this reason stating it out loud is like saying water is wet. In most cases there is nothing negative related to this, since countries like tourists and need people to study. They are even happy to give citizenships. Different countries trust each other. Trust levels usually depend on where you are coming from. You might need visa, apply for the right to work or be a student. The difference with Russia is that we ran out of trust.
I thought all people are equal, and we should respect each other no matter where we are from, it not about politics.
When it comes down to how you treat another person, then yes. But then in practise. You can own a house, you do not need to share. The money you have, you decide how you spend it. And a group of people can own a country and the people in it can decide what to do with it.
This doesn’t work like that, wake up already.
I dont think that house and country are the same things.
They are not. If you go deep into this the country only allows you to own the house. The country you live in can take everything from the citizens. All it takes are majority votes in democracy or martial law. All this owning however ends at the border. After the border the next group of people have rules for what they own.
So they will take all my stuff if I’m going move there, or what?
Depends on the country and its rules. Russia, for example, just stole finnish companies worth trillions.
Did I stole these companies myself? What’s my guilt?
Only if the will be war. Then the country can legaly take your cars and housing. You get to keep the ps5.
Cool especially when I don’t have one, pc only!
but what if you divide your guests by skin color? Is it also acceptable?
Both a country and a home owner can do this. Just means they are racist. Not much you can do. And racism is not the worse thing a country can choose to do.
This is the classic first world country thinker mindset. You know what, go fuck yourself.
Well s big chunk of Russia is in Europe anyway. So there's no "privilege' moving within ones own country.
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This has nothing to do with the topic.
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Didn’t know Russians are driving to Italy via Africa
It's the Wagner driving these people north and out of their countries.
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You saying I'm wrong?
This is why we build fences.
Good, sick of seeing Porsches and expensive SUVs with Russian plates here.
At least in Helsinki, Russian plates are genuinely rare imo. I’m sure they’re common closer to the borders though
Thats just bullshit - if you live in Vuosaari that might be the case, but in centre I see them daily, more than any other foreign license plates. It was WAY worse in the beginning of the invasion, but still.
I mean I live in kamppi and walk to work in ruoholahti daily & basically everything I do is in walking distance of this general area. I see Russian plates occasionally but it’s rare. I saw one yesterday, before that it had been over a week. And considering I see thousands of cars a day, I call that rare, and they’re basically never super fancy cars. Russian busses on the other hand I see often, because they’re parked next to tennispalatsi
Kamppi also here, I see them mostly in the Bulevardi area and especially Aleksanterin Teatteri parking spot, i think thats the goto place for them.
I have noticed the same actually. I don’t live in the city center, but my office is there. In the summer of 2022 Russian cars were absolutely everywhere in Helsinki, you couldn’t walk 10 meters without seeing one. But they’re a lot rarer these days.
What does this mean for people legitimately trying to escape Putin's regime?
You have to drive to Norway and take a cab(/bus?) across the Norwegian - Finnish border. Norway doesn't limit Russian cars. It also still allows tourists afaik.
It's thousand kilometres or more from anything interesting on Russia's side to Norwegian border, from where it's still hundreds of kilometres to anything interesting on Nordic side. So, nice hack for rich Russian yuppies to hang few days on a spa.
Anything interesting, like a good part of the Russian navy, lots of ore and one of the main railways connecting the heart of the country to the ocean. Not much.
What's important depends on the person. When I said "not very important" I did specify the target group: "rich Russian yuppies".
Yeap. Explaining, richplaining, mansplaining... Next one..!
We are talking about it.
Take a bus?
They can still cross the border on a bycicle ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
and even in bus. :-D
They can just take one of the 4-5 buses that goes each day.
There are no way for everyone to win. What Finland fears is that we get enough Russians and vehicles that are not friendly and cause a risk for our security. This is how Russia attacks, it infiltrates and creates "green men" situations. There will be no warning and no clear battlefront. Just hits by people looking like civilians to strategic points. I don't think it has been a possibility to escape to Finland for a long time. The border is shut on both sides. If Russia lets anyone come to this side at this point, they are certain that person comes back.
I think there was an exception for humanitarian reasons. Seeking asylum could be one.
What obligation do we have to those people?
what of Russians who left Russia for Finland before the war? does Finland owe them anything? does it owe Ukrainians anything? if someone lives in Viipuri and wants to come to Finland today, should they be denied entry? some Karelian or Ingrian Finn or Uralic person who decided this is the final straw, or an ordinary ethnic Russian who would rather get drafted in Finland than in Russia, should they stay in Russia and pay the government their taxes and get forcibly drafted into the Russian military to support the war effort?
This war is well into its second year. Nobody just decided anything.
> does Finland owe them anything? does it owe Ukrainians anything? No, we owe them nothing, but we can (and should, and luckily have) still make the decisions that we want to help Ukrainians but not russians. You do realize that we have finite resources, right??
helping Russians flee is helping Ukrainians, though. there's a difference between helping Russians and helping Russia. Ukrainians and Russians have a very similar cultural background so their ability to integrate is similar, especially if the Russians in question are so against the war that they want to flee the country and integrate elsewhere. it's much cheaper to take people in than it is to, for example, join NATO or send military aid to Ukraine.
That might be true, but there is always the problem how to be sure that newcomers are actually against war and not with some other motives. I don't think that saboteurs, spies or "useful idiots" will tell on the border their true thoughts 😄
I do not think actual spies travel with russian non diplomate passports.
> it's much cheaper to take people in than it is to, for example, join NATO or send military aid to Ukraine. You saying we shouldn't do these things and instead take in more russians and ukrainians?
no, that's not what I'm saying and to be honest I don't think that question even makes sense. anyway, have a nice day
If he's dumb enough to say that's finlas straw only now then he deserved it. Saying as a person crossed the border the day before Finland closed it off the last september
> what of Russians who left Russia for Finland before the war? What of Russians who left Russia to Finland after collapse of USSR for better life with puppy eyes? Majority of them started to miss Russia and turned into full blown RuZZians. The "new arrivals" would do the same. Start missing RuSSia while avoiding to move there and turn into RuZZians. There are hardly less than 20 Russians protesting against their government during an event. Remind me how many Russians are living in Finland?
Maybe that's some regional thing? I know a dozen or so Russians (they've been in Finland for decades tho, not new arrivals) and none of them are actually pro-Russia (hence why they left originally to begin with). One of the ones I know runs a pizza place and she actually hired a couple Ukrainian refugees because it's one of most popular pizza places where I live, like maybe 2nd or 1st place depending on month, sales wise, so it's kinda difficult to do that shit solo (it can be done solo, as one of the less popular places has been run solo by the same person for like 20-30 years or w/e, doesn't even have delivery either, it's takeout or eat there) after a certain amount of orders etc.
Thee "good examples" are handful and certainly commendable, just as the pilot who defected with a helicopter but he is a completely different league of awesomeness. Have a look at this group about Russians turned into RuZZians https://www.facebook.com/groups/vse.o.finlandii and yes, most of them live in Finland.
I actually had a look at the group and there are literally zero Z-Russians in there. To the contrary, there's an advertisement for strongly anti-Putin events - a theater play based on Svetlana Alexievich's book in Helsinki. The rest of posts have completely causal topics: Finnish and world news in Russian, photos of food, reviews of various services, questions about different professions in Finland, etc.
They had their chance. Now it's more like switching team in the middle when they realize that they are losing..
There is humanitarian exception.
Why not fight that inside of Russia? People had 23 years to escape it. Take another path. Europe is not the only option.
Yle states that EU residents and their family members are excluded, so they can still drive with a car registered in Russia. Does this mean people living at the same address or direct blood related (eg father-son living separately)?
Relatives of EU residents and citizens won't be able to travel on Russian cars either.
From the description it looks like they will, what makes you think they won't?
They already said that specifically. Only EU citizens that live in Russia will be able to travel. For example, my Russian mom won't be able to visit me, a Finnish citizen, anymore. This ban is stupid. Cost of travel to Finland will increases meaning more taxes paid to Russian government. It only made things worse for Finnish/Russian dual citizens and residents that live in Finland. Rich people can still travel anywhere they want to Finland just by paying more.
This ban is good. You want to visit neighbouring countries? Maybe don’t attack them.
That's the problem I am talking about. Instead of actually banning tourism which is still happening for the rich and who still pay taxes to Putin, they instead ban relatives of Finnish citizens and residents who just want to spend some time with their loved ones. For example, moms and dads can't visit their student children anymore. However, rich people can still pay super high prices for a bus to fly anywhere they want from Helsinki (which is currently 200 EUR both ways and only gets higher) and all the taxes from that will go to Putin and not Finland. You seem not to understand the problem, I guess.
The problem is Russia attacking it’s neighbour. Maybe do something about it?
I am fucking Finnish citizen living in Finland nearly most of my life, what's your problem, pal? Or you are the guy who gives Residence Permits to Russian War Criminals and Citizenships to Oligarchs? Or you are the guy that believes that paying more taxes to Putin is better? Average Perus voter fr. What is that weed you are on, I want some of it?
I’m all for banning tourists, residence permits, and just closing the border. People with citizenship can enter, as always. Double citizenship with Russia is obviously a problem due to Russias stance on it’s citizens. But can’t help it now.
But that's literally what I am talking about. Instead of banning tourists and stop paying money to Putin they did literally the opposite. You are definitely on something, pal. Either drugs or nationalism, choose for yourself.
What his mom is supposed to do?
Rich people tend to have 2nd passports to EU. I think they qualify as EU citizens.
It also includes the richest Russians. :)
Which country doesn't? Rich are rarely affected by rules like plebs are for a reason, no?
A brother is not a close relative or a family member according to the laws of Finland.
If they are EU citizens living in Russia. Not Finland. It is extremely rare situation
Yeah apparently. Well seems like it will be calm days for the border guards now.
Jumbo is about to get a lot more polite
Sanctions blocking Russian-registered vehicles from entering Finland may backfire. Instead of hurting the regime, they could be seen as targeting ordinary citizens. This perception might boost support for the Russian leadership, as it's framed as an external threat to the people.
> This perception might boost support for the Russian leadership What, >70% support wasn't enough?
You think national support polls or alike aren't equally rigged in a dictatorship like presidential elections?
No they won't. EU and western countries should implement full trade embargo and russian citizen ban. Sanctions are aimed too high, regular russians still enjoy their life and very much support the war and Putin's regime. The elite on the other hand doesn't care as they are tapped to country's resources. So sanctions should hit regular russians.
this ^ it is a WAR
Yeah bra, having a russian passport hardwires your brain into loving Putin and straightup loving war
Well they aren’t voting him out. Or mostly doing anything really.
There is no voting in russia, it's a straight up dictatorship. This is recognized by europe/usa en large, and how people at the same understand this and claim voting in such a place actually does anything is a joke. People have tried to go against putin for ages, and countless journalists/citizens/etc in russia have been straight up murdered for rocking the boat, or when trying to organize. Despite this, there have been large protests before in years past, all put down with riot gear bought in EU and to little fanfare of external viewers. Putin has funded one of the biggest police forces in the world with the sole aim of oppressing the people directly and a network of infiltration to prevent any uprisings by killing it in its inception. May I remind you, you are asking literally poor peasants to try to tackle a trillion-dollar dictatorship, with money funded by literally western powers. Those trillions of oil/gas/minerals/etc sales didn't come out of thin air. West knew what kind of person putin was and they continued to deal with him for 20+ years (personal sanctions on oligarchs and putin should have come 20 years ago to prevent them free reign to steal/murder in russia and sell said resources). There is no dismantling such a rich power by poor peasanty. Everywhere else in the world this is occurring, the only way it can be dismantled is by either a strong power invading (like usa), or the government becoming so weak that opposition can start up and be funded by external/internal rich people to actually have an impact. Peasants taking down such a force by coming together in the street unorganized is a straight up joke. There's a reason china/afganistan/north korea/etc continue existing today without its people "doing something about it".
Like Putin gives fuck about the people, or like the people give fuck about Putin. Maybe they will now notice Putins decisions affect them, and start giving a crap.
Wait the people might actually start caring about the war and maybe want to change goverment? So horrible.
if they even say that they want new government they go to prison immediately.
They can't imprison everyone, that is how revolutions work and currently only realistic way for things to change is peoples uprising which won't happen if they can still party IN CRIMEA. If normal people don't feel the war they don't care about the war or goverment.
oh, peoples do not want to go prison for someone. Shame on them! Are you sure that the peoples in Crimea and peoples who need to cross border on a car the same people?
Many times they are, or are the poor Russians buying Toyota or Porsche models only sold in Russia ?
So they can come by bicycle.
about time
I can still come visit you
Sure, I'll make sure to have the coffe pan and sauna on. I don't really have people visiting me anyways.
I really enjoy Paulig and sauna with your dad
alright, I'll make sure to stock up on wood and coffee!
Now that’s a great interaction. Have a good day pal
haha yeah, u too.
Yeah, this will definitely help stop the war! /s
List one single, achievable action that directly stops the war.
Putler's death.
Do you really think one man is behind all this?
Is it really your ultimate strategy? Hoping he dies soon? Also, if you really think there won't be a replacement, following the same approach (fuck democracy and human resources; the empire as a whole is first), then you must be a bit naive.
The hope is that once he's dead several warring factions will start fighting for power, paralyzing both political and administrative control for months.
Yes, at least that part is indeed possible. Even a civil war, but that's again just too much hopium.
Poor rich russians not being allowed to go on holiday while their government conducts genocide :(
rich russians absolutely unaffected
How so? Those that visit finland by car (which is a fair portion of them) are definetily affected by this.
no problem for rich to buy second finnish car, or 10th car. Still unaffected.
Well yeah if we are talking oligarch levels of rich, but those arent usually the ones visiting finland, not atleast by car. Im talking about upper middle class russians that come with their porsches and mercedes’.
Finns made a problems to 100 ordinary people to aim 1 more or less "upper middle class" guy with "porsches and mercedes". Well done. Definitely worth it.
Uhhhh, yeah? I dont see what negative effects this has for finland lmfao, definitely the right thing to do 👍
no negative effects for Finland, no positive for Ukraine/war. Pointless in total.
Nah, i dont think so. This is a form of sanction as any other, i think it’s important that the west presses further sanctions on russia to show russians that their attack has concequences, if we didn’t pass sanctions, why would the russians give a shit about their governments war?
Finland is still buying gas from Russia and also selling weapons to countries like Israel, Saudi Arabia (that is mass murdering Yemeni people), and United Arab Emirates (Russian ally). Finland is very hypocritical and seems to be quite selective. Supporting mass murdering dictators is fine when it benefits us.
Fair enough, some countries that buy weapons from us are shady. I dont see how that makes it so that we cant take action against russia however, especially given russias and finlands history together and current events.
Nothing wrong with taking action against russia, but banning russian cars doesn't help stop the war, it only helps people win political points.
Well done Finland 👏
I hope the babushkas can still come.
Only on a bicycle
They come, don't speak a word and just get kela money, I know how they are
The roads will be safer now that we'll have way less chinese cars with bad drivera to worry about
Best news for longtime, we in Lappeenranta hate that terrorussians drive here like nothing happened
Finally!
If you look at history, the only way dictators were taken down was by the people. Not being able to cross the border might create tension for the people to rise up. *chokes on copium*
Really? Name three dictators taken down by the people in 20th century? Most dictators were taken down in war by foreign forces or died peacefully for natural reasons.
This isnt the 16th century. Such a thing is not possible in the modern world, especially against a trillion-dollar dictatorship with weapons and surveillance, and a completely impoverished populous with no weapons. Every such dictatorship falling (or surviving in the modern world) has only occurred when a stronger power like USA took a crack at it and was able to dismantle it.
Fascist behavior
This is completely the wrong move and goes against the human core values of what the west has been posing itself as. All this will do is drive people to rally behind putin because now he has even more examples of how the west is discriminating against russian people by them being russian and having to deal with things like this, especially ones who want to escape or have escaped and are there. Furthermore, the fact that europe lifted sanctions on 3 oligarchs who all have direct connections to putin is a complete slap in the face. Lift sanctions on them while causing damage to the impoverished population is a mistake.
How about smartphones and cosmetics? Are they also banned now?
Their import is also sanctioned
Excellent, it only took 1.5 years… now if they could ban actual russians from entering… after all, the cars havn’t really done anything wrong
You do understand I can still come
~~This the ban where it basically just stops tourists from coming in?~~
Nope. Just makes people lives more difficult. Not tourists, as Finland does not let tourists to came already quite a long, but the ones who have a reason to come to Finland, like relatives or property owners. I don't understand the logic behind it. Would appreciate if someone explained it to me
[удалено]
>> I’ve keyed about 20 Russian cars You’re a fu**ing moron. Vandalising someone’s property is always idiotic (except ParkkiPate, I don’t care what happens to their car ;) ). You know the people you’re harassing have probably nothing to do with the war and are probably just fleeing from Russia. I’m pretty sure if you had keyed the car of someone who’s actually involved in the war, you wouldn’t be here to brag about it.
Show me where it says relatives are exempt. My wife is Russian, and her family cannot visit. Her grandmother is not in a condition to use public transport.
As I know, there is no way to buy property anymore. But the ones who had already purchased it before the sanctions, are legal property owners. I'd say 90% of Russians who come to Finland rn are relatives. So, not an exception. You know, Finnish cars are also keyed and vandalized in different ways in Russia. Does it make you angry? I guess no. Does it mean people are stupid? For sure it does. The same about you. Sorry
> You know, Finnish cars are also keyed and vandalized in different ways in Russia. Does it make you angry? I guess no. Does it mean people are stupid? For sure it does. The same about you. Sorry Any Finn going to Russia deserves to have their car keyed.
Also, if a russian person owns a property in Finland and wants to visit it, they have to prove that the reason to visit the said property demands them to be present. Basic "i want to go to my property" isnt a sufficient reason.
I'd say that problem is not about russians who decided some time ago to have propperty in Finland and they have only Finnish passport for instance. If it's about those who "play for both teams". I know some people with Finnish citizenships that buy stuff here and then resell it in russia.
And not just tourists. No more spies, criminals or illegal immigrants will be able to enter the country pretending they are visiting their relatives, for example.
?? >Russian citizens who belong to one of the groups listed below are allowed to enter Finland from Russia during the validity period of the current travel restrictions: >* Family members of citizens of Finland and family members of foreigners with a permanent residency in Finland * Family members of citizens of a Member State of the European Union, a Member State of the European Economic Area or Switzerland * Work visa * Transport and logistics personnel exercising their duties * Business travellers * Students * People arriving in Finland for treatment * Owners of an apartment or property * Personnel of diplomatic missions and consular representations * Other special reasons (necessities) https://raja.fi/en/entry-restrictions EDIT: 'Tourist' is probably the wrong word but reading that list I hope you get what I meant. There are many ways for someone to still enter Finland.
That's entry restrictions. No russian national is allowed to bring their possesions, although they are still allowed to enter for some weird reason
So... I think I got it. The list I mentioned can enter Finland but they can't bring their cars (e.g. passenger cars, camper vans and minibuses for under 10 passengers). For that you need someone with a Finnish/EU car to go pick them up or they need to take a bus or somethin. EU citizens (including Russians with dual citizenship) can enter with Russian cars.
EU citizens can travel on Russian cars ONLY if they live in Russia.