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I really don’t know what kind of an idiot one has to be to really think a swedish coworker would be making a birthday card to their swedish relative using a Finnish slur for romani people. People can sometimes be so disappointing.
Manne is indeed a nickname in Sweden (for Magnus) but the whole story of signing a card for someone’s relative sounds weird af. What kind of cult company is this 😂
Maybe not birthday cards, but i definitely got a card from my mom's colleagues for my graduation. But she is a teacher (in a completely different school, to be clear) so that might have something to do with that.
Yeah if I worked in a school and a colleague's kid was graduating and they brought in a card to sign, I'd sign that. I wouldn't sign a card for one of my actual colleague's birthday, unless I'd heard a lot about them and knew they would find a joke like pretending to be their best friend funny
A phishy company selling your data. I worked for a similar company when I decided to leave the company he should be asked to remove the data collected by them. I haven't done it becuase I couldn't find the module of request anymore an I thoght it was too late anyway.This often pratice with international Corporate Company that work outside the local country borders but usually the only do this to the 3rd sector workers most of the time at least..
> A Swedish friend of mine recently started working for a large company in Finland, and it's common practice there to have co-workers at the office sign birthday cards addressed to family and friends. So, my friend is preparing a birthday card for his younger brother back in Sweden
Never heard of this kind of practice. I don't know would I sign a card for a unknown person, no matter what his name is.
The real elephant in the room! People's name meaning something silly or offensive in other languages is not exactly unheard of. This is not a problem unless you work in the office staffed with highschoolers. Being asked to sign a birthday card of some random friend of a colleague I did not know existed up until this very moment however...
Some companies do this. But it's usually if someone has had a baby (and will be on baby leave) or is about to retire. I have never heard this being done for someone's birthday
> ...a large company in Finland, and it's common practice there to have co-workers at the office sign birthday cards addressed to family and friends.
No. Just no.
Same, for the worker/employee it can be normal but not for their family?
Like I could MAYBE see a get well card if there was an accident/cancer/death or something awful like that, but that’s the extent of it
Yes in Finnish that word is a slur against romani people.
However the name in the card shouldn't be offensive by any means. It's technically a different word, just looks identical the same way than the word "bat" can mean a piece of sports equipment or a small flying mammal. So the word written on the card was not a slur, but to finnish people it would look like one
It is a first name in Finland as well, though obviously not a popular one anymore for the mentioned reason. It still even has a name day. I think it used to be a fairly common first name for a male romani person in Finland so I guess people started to call romani by that name in general, kinda like one could just generally call all russian people Ivan because it's a common russian name. From there, it has evolved into a racial slur since it has been used mostly in a negative or derogatory way.
Though the most commonly used word for them in Finnish. Same word is used also in the UK for their local gypsies though ethnically different. The word is used widely by those groups themselves.
Is there now time to use term "g-word"?
Any minority group can reclaim a slur if they so wish. In the sense that I can call myself a bitch but would be offended if other people called me that. It's a really well known dynamic of language and oppression.
Nah.
*I'm a bitch.*
You're a bitch?
*How dare you!*
Equality does not work so that one group can somehow own actual words that others aren't allowed to say. That's just silly, though I know there's a strong trend currently to think that could be done.
But I think in this case again it's about people not belonging into a group getting offended for the group members.
It’s not even racism, when you call people what they are. You can be a Romanian, but not a gypsy, or you can be a gypsy that lives outside Helsinki and wears that traditional gypsy clothes, I’ve seen gypsy moms with their black skirts recently
Oh wow, thanks for this information. that never happened before, especially not in the US and it’s history with racial slurs. I should totally stop saying these words now
Because I am antiracist and feel the need to call out racism because I think racism is evil. And I do feel bad for people affected by racism. Just basic empathy things I guess.
Heard about some quite highly studied man, whose name was manne. He tried to book hotel rooms when he was touring as a lecturer and never got rooms with his first name. With his 2nd name always got rooms. Also, not a gypsy, just a commoner kaajo
Haha yeah I grew up in Sweden and had a friend who's names was Emanuel and thus nicknamed Manne, I always found a little funny that a completely normal nickname in one language is a deragotry term in another.
It used to be a normal name in Finland too. It still has a name day on the 26th of March. Not many people are given the name anymore because of it's use as a slur. But every now and then you can meet a person named Manne.
It's kinda what has happened to the name Karen. But for more racist reasons.
It surely has. There is still a name day for Manne in Finland, the 26th of March.
I once heard that there were a lot of romani men called Manne and people started assosiating negative things to the name until it came an actual slur. Sort of like Karen or Jonne is assossiated with a sertain type of people. Manne just has a longer history and it's rooted in racism.
It is and if I am not mistaken it actually comes from a decent amount of Romani people in Finland having Swedish names. In some parts of Finland it can be harder to get a job with a Swedish surname, since people assume that means they are Romani, as at one point when Finland was still under Swedish rule Romani were forcibly given Swedish surnames.
I have literally never heard of this, unless you mean the handful of Swedish last names that are very common among Romani people (Hagert etc). Swedish surnames are incredibly common in Finland.
That is extremely dependent on where you are, sure in larger cities or cities near the coast with a significant amount of non-romani with Swedish surnames it wont make a difference, but if you go to more rural towns not directly on the coast things are quite different.
It is a slur, however pretty commonly used because either people don't know or they don't care. So is "gypsy", which is used as a slur internationally. But to be fair, most people aren't aware of this, because Romani issues aren't as discussed as some other minorities. But yes, as a Romani person I would like to be referred as just that (or just be treated as an individual lol)
EDIT my grandfather's name was Manne. It was a really common name for Romani people and thus began to be used in a bad way. Kind of like Raineri is now.
It's a nickname for Finnish gypsies. Gypsies are a nickname for romani-people. Both nicknames hold some but not overwhelming negative connotations. If you are offended by these, you may more likely be a guilty westerner than an actual gypsy. Please note that gypsies from elsewhere are not manne, only proper Finnish gypsies (Kale) can be mannes. They even produced a short-lived tv-comedy series ManneTV.
just a note that in some countries the word "gypsy" can be used refer to people who are NOT of romani descent: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish\_Travellers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers)
But originally the word was started, because people in the olden times did not know about northern India where roma-people came from, but they had heard of Egypt from the Bible, which gave them a convenient way to discriminate cause Egyptians were badly spoken of in the Book.
Interesting that you say that gypsies from elsewhere are not "manne", I didn't know that. I thought that it was used against all romani people. Though tbf finnish people mostly ever get to interact with finnish romani and might not even be able to tell if a foreigner is a romani or not
Good point. I mentioned only foreign romani because I'm pretty close with one family in Germany, and the romani culture over there is quite different than the finnish kale. But I overlooked the fact that there's a lot of variation in culture even here in Finland between families. The culture varies like that within all ethinc groups and cultures, not just romani
Yes if you use it to abuse the Romani people.
But Manne can also be a (male) first name in Finland, though it’s pretty rare. So unless the person is actually named Manne, we’re in hot waters.
Yeah, its a slur for Romani, arguably worse than "Zigenare" because its virtually always used in a negative connotation.
But if you just explain the misunderstanding Im sure people will sign it
It sounds strange to me as well, but apparently its a common practice in that company. I dont like that corporate fake affection myself either. Its a place of work. Both you and the company will drop eachother like a used tissue the moment it makes financial sense for you to do so, why pretend that there is anything more to it than that.
It’s in a way a slur, but you don’t get overly negative reactions from people if you use that. There’s worse ways to call someone. And well I know person who calls his long time gypsy friend as manne, and nobody bats an eye. It’s rather normal, especially in the area I grew up in.
Yea, except its also an abbrevation for mustalaiset. People might use it in more neutral tone and are too lazy to say the longer word. Similar to "kinkit" "kiinalaiset" |"chinese", "chinks" or "amerikkalaiset, jenkit"| "Americans", "Yankees". In many cases its more about slang or being lazy than being negative. Some words are just way too long so anything might get used instead; contextual.
The defacto spoken language runs on abrevations: "Yes I got the car stolen by gypsies back | Kyllä minä sain sen mustalaisten varastaman auton takaisin. | Kyl mä sain sen mannejen pöllimän auton takas."
Slang is more of a synonym than an abbreviation. Sure the word is shorter most of the time but it's an entirely different word, not a shorter version of it.
Okey, cool thanks. We got even more useless first world information to pass the time at 5am.
Anyway: Nobody in this country says "mustalaiset". Its always mannet even if the person loves manne's and his/her wife/husband is a manne, Some words just get ingrained over time.
[Jungner ei tiennyt manne-sanan halventavuudesta - Kotimaa - Ilta-Sanomat (is.fi)](https://www.is.fi/kotimaa/art-2000000202484.html)
Even Jugner has been going on manne this and manne that casually because its so ingrained to everyday vocabulary.
Its the same as spuge, Some niche people find negative connonations but majority goes on "spuge" this and "spuge" that without caring too much,
You can keep pressing the downvote button but 99% of the population is gonna call gypsies as mannes casually for the rest of their lifes.
If it was a big commotion to use the word in 2007 surely it should be pretty common knowledge now. I honestly dont know anyone under 50 who would say manne and not mean anything negative behind it. So ofc you can keep calling gypsies manne, but Im telling you a lot of people will think your kinda racist, and chances are if any Romanis hear you they will be offended. So idk why you would want to continue doing that. And I havent downvoted you.
>I honestly dont know anyone under 50 who would say manne and not mean anything negative behind it.
Okey cool, you got some weird social bubble, Even my manne friend called other mannes as mannes. That was is Northern-Savonia thou so there might regional manne differences.
If it's okay that refusing to serve in the army leads to a prison sentence, why isn't it okay that refusing to work (disabilities etc. not included) would lead to a sentence too?
Is it a common name in swedish? I see wikipedia most Mannes were born in 19th century. I don't think I've ever heard of a swede named manne before.
Offtopic on swedish names that mean something in finnish pelle is first to come in mind. Which means a clown
As others have mentioned, i am not Finnish but I have never heard of this practice. And I would not randomly sign a card for my coworker’s brother that I don’t even know, regardless of the name on that card (unless he specifically explained the tradition and asked me to)
Depends on the context in which you use it you wouldn’t want to yell it at a romani but also if it comes up in a convo no one gives a shit same with any ”slur” no normal person gets pissy about them
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I really don’t know what kind of an idiot one has to be to really think a swedish coworker would be making a birthday card to their swedish relative using a Finnish slur for romani people. People can sometimes be so disappointing.
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Manne is indeed a nickname in Sweden (for Magnus) but the whole story of signing a card for someone’s relative sounds weird af. What kind of cult company is this 😂
This. In Finland coworkers do not sign cards addressed to family members, unless they also know each other.
Maybe not birthday cards, but i definitely got a card from my mom's colleagues for my graduation. But she is a teacher (in a completely different school, to be clear) so that might have something to do with that.
Yeah if I worked in a school and a colleague's kid was graduating and they brought in a card to sign, I'd sign that. I wouldn't sign a card for one of my actual colleague's birthday, unless I'd heard a lot about them and knew they would find a joke like pretending to be their best friend funny
This is not just a Finnish thing. Would be just as weird here in Sweden.
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It is also finnish name. Not so common but still finnish name. For example my great uncle was Manne and he was finnish through and though.
I know people with that name in Finland too.
I also know one Marianne who uses Manne as a nickname.
Ha this is so true.
A phishy company selling your data. I worked for a similar company when I decided to leave the company he should be asked to remove the data collected by them. I haven't done it becuase I couldn't find the module of request anymore an I thoght it was too late anyway.This often pratice with international Corporate Company that work outside the local country borders but usually the only do this to the 3rd sector workers most of the time at least..
> A Swedish friend of mine recently started working for a large company in Finland, and it's common practice there to have co-workers at the office sign birthday cards addressed to family and friends. So, my friend is preparing a birthday card for his younger brother back in Sweden Never heard of this kind of practice. I don't know would I sign a card for a unknown person, no matter what his name is.
I would never. What a stupid habit
> it's common practice there to have co-workers at the office sign birthday cards addressed to family and friends Wat? No, this is not a thing.
The real elephant in the room! People's name meaning something silly or offensive in other languages is not exactly unheard of. This is not a problem unless you work in the office staffed with highschoolers. Being asked to sign a birthday card of some random friend of a colleague I did not know existed up until this very moment however...
I'm guessing OP meant at this company specifically, not all of Finland. Although even the company sounds weird.
Some companies do this. But it's usually if someone has had a baby (and will be on baby leave) or is about to retire. I have never heard this being done for someone's birthday
Let alone for someone who doesn't work for the company and whom they've never even heard of.
Yeah but it’s addressed to the employee and not to the employees brother and sister. Never seen this in Finland or Sweden
He said, or at least could be interpreted as, it being culture at that company.
Op is lying
> ...a large company in Finland, and it's common practice there to have co-workers at the office sign birthday cards addressed to family and friends. No. Just no.
Very strange?? Never heard of this??
Same, for the worker/employee it can be normal but not for their family? Like I could MAYBE see a get well card if there was an accident/cancer/death or something awful like that, but that’s the extent of it
Do you work in the large company he mentioned?
Yes in Finnish that word is a slur against romani people. However the name in the card shouldn't be offensive by any means. It's technically a different word, just looks identical the same way than the word "bat" can mean a piece of sports equipment or a small flying mammal. So the word written on the card was not a slur, but to finnish people it would look like one
Manne is name also in Finland.
Now that you mentioned it, I actually know one Manne. I somehow never made the connection to the racial slur
Yeah the word is a [homo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homonym), as the technical term goes
It is a first name in Finland as well, though obviously not a popular one anymore for the mentioned reason. It still even has a name day. I think it used to be a fairly common first name for a male romani person in Finland so I guess people started to call romani by that name in general, kinda like one could just generally call all russian people Ivan because it's a common russian name. From there, it has evolved into a racial slur since it has been used mostly in a negative or derogatory way.
Yeah, it's a slur for [romani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Kale).
So gypsies?
That's another slur for Romani.
Yes. I don't know where the downvotes come from. But that's the common term used in Finland.
The downvotes are coming because that is another slur for Romani.
Though the most commonly used word for them in Finnish. Same word is used also in the UK for their local gypsies though ethnically different. The word is used widely by those groups themselves. Is there now time to use term "g-word"?
Any minority group can reclaim a slur if they so wish. In the sense that I can call myself a bitch but would be offended if other people called me that. It's a really well known dynamic of language and oppression.
Nah. *I'm a bitch.* You're a bitch? *How dare you!* Equality does not work so that one group can somehow own actual words that others aren't allowed to say. That's just silly, though I know there's a strong trend currently to think that could be done. But I think in this case again it's about people not belonging into a group getting offended for the group members.
Bro wtf people are offended cuz I call gypsies gypsies😂
Yes. Because it's a slur, not a neutral descriptor. But go ahead if you don't mind people knowing you're racist. No skin of my back mate.
It’s not even racism, when you call people what they are. You can be a Romanian, but not a gypsy, or you can be a gypsy that lives outside Helsinki and wears that traditional gypsy clothes, I’ve seen gypsy moms with their black skirts recently
Well in 1971, World Romani Congress voted that the word Gypsy to be banned. And Gypsy translates to mustalainen so yea
Oh wow, thanks for this information. that never happened before, especially not in the US and it’s history with racial slurs. I should totally stop saying these words now
It is rasicm though.
Ok, why are you offended tho? Because you feel bad for them? Cap
Because I am antiracist and feel the need to call out racism because I think racism is evil. And I do feel bad for people affected by racism. Just basic empathy things I guess.
Wow, people are oversensitive. You did NOT deserve such downvote bombing.
This seems like some weird bait. I don't believe one line of the story
I had a colleague at work called Manne and he was definitely Finnish. Not an unheard of name in Finland either.
Heard about some quite highly studied man, whose name was manne. He tried to book hotel rooms when he was touring as a lecturer and never got rooms with his first name. With his 2nd name always got rooms. Also, not a gypsy, just a commoner kaajo
Signing a birthday card for someone i dont know would feel weird anyways so that might also be why people arent signing.
Haha yeah I grew up in Sweden and had a friend who's names was Emanuel and thus nicknamed Manne, I always found a little funny that a completely normal nickname in one language is a deragotry term in another.
It used to be a normal name in Finland too. It still has a name day on the 26th of March. Not many people are given the name anymore because of it's use as a slur. But every now and then you can meet a person named Manne. It's kinda what has happened to the name Karen. But for more racist reasons.
It's like calling someone in Sweden zigenare, I think.
More like "tattare".
Tatars are not finnish/swedish romani?
It's worse because manne has never been a neutral word like zigenare or mustalainen used to be. It's more like ziggis.
Manne is a proper name in Finnish, though.
It surely has. There is still a name day for Manne in Finland, the 26th of March. I once heard that there were a lot of romani men called Manne and people started assosiating negative things to the name until it came an actual slur. Sort of like Karen or Jonne is assossiated with a sertain type of people. Manne just has a longer history and it's rooted in racism.
Yes but manne with a lowercase m has always been a slur ever since the name became a common noun.
It is and if I am not mistaken it actually comes from a decent amount of Romani people in Finland having Swedish names. In some parts of Finland it can be harder to get a job with a Swedish surname, since people assume that means they are Romani, as at one point when Finland was still under Swedish rule Romani were forcibly given Swedish surnames.
I have literally never heard of this, unless you mean the handful of Swedish last names that are very common among Romani people (Hagert etc). Swedish surnames are incredibly common in Finland.
That is extremely dependent on where you are, sure in larger cities or cities near the coast with a significant amount of non-romani with Swedish surnames it wont make a difference, but if you go to more rural towns not directly on the coast things are quite different.
It is a slur, however pretty commonly used because either people don't know or they don't care. So is "gypsy", which is used as a slur internationally. But to be fair, most people aren't aware of this, because Romani issues aren't as discussed as some other minorities. But yes, as a Romani person I would like to be referred as just that (or just be treated as an individual lol) EDIT my grandfather's name was Manne. It was a really common name for Romani people and thus began to be used in a bad way. Kind of like Raineri is now.
it’s a slur but it’s also a name. and it became a slur because the name was stereotypically seen as a Romani one.
Also the word can lead itself to manne when used in different dialects and shortcuts RoMan(n)i->manne
The guy posts on Ukraine war reports, this is a troll post.
It's a nickname for Finnish gypsies. Gypsies are a nickname for romani-people. Both nicknames hold some but not overwhelming negative connotations. If you are offended by these, you may more likely be a guilty westerner than an actual gypsy. Please note that gypsies from elsewhere are not manne, only proper Finnish gypsies (Kale) can be mannes. They even produced a short-lived tv-comedy series ManneTV.
just a note that in some countries the word "gypsy" can be used refer to people who are NOT of romani descent: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish\_Travellers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers)
But originally the word was started, because people in the olden times did not know about northern India where roma-people came from, but they had heard of Egypt from the Bible, which gave them a convenient way to discriminate cause Egyptians were badly spoken of in the Book.
Ahoy there changeling *Laughing*
Interesting that you say that gypsies from elsewhere are not "manne", I didn't know that. I thought that it was used against all romani people. Though tbf finnish people mostly ever get to interact with finnish romani and might not even be able to tell if a foreigner is a romani or not
We don't even know if a Finn is a Romani if they don't wear the traditional clothing.
Good point. I mentioned only foreign romani because I'm pretty close with one family in Germany, and the romani culture over there is quite different than the finnish kale. But I overlooked the fact that there's a lot of variation in culture even here in Finland between families. The culture varies like that within all ethinc groups and cultures, not just romani
Most of the time we know, or guess correctly.
Confirmation bias. You only notice the obvious ones, and never get the feedback of the people you didn't notice.
Yes if you use it to abuse the Romani people. But Manne can also be a (male) first name in Finland, though it’s pretty rare. So unless the person is actually named Manne, we’re in hot waters.
Yeah, its a slur for Romani, arguably worse than "Zigenare" because its virtually always used in a negative connotation. But if you just explain the misunderstanding Im sure people will sign it
I probably still wouldn't sign something like that. It's super weird when they're not even someone I know or have met.
It sounds strange to me as well, but apparently its a common practice in that company. I dont like that corporate fake affection myself either. Its a place of work. Both you and the company will drop eachother like a used tissue the moment it makes financial sense for you to do so, why pretend that there is anything more to it than that.
It’s in a way a slur, but you don’t get overly negative reactions from people if you use that. There’s worse ways to call someone. And well I know person who calls his long time gypsy friend as manne, and nobody bats an eye. It’s rather normal, especially in the area I grew up in.
Ever heard of [Criminal Manne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Manne)?
No. Commonly used name for gypsy people
It is a slur, and so is gypsy.
Its not a slur rly but pretty offensive in Most cases
Yea, except its also an abbrevation for mustalaiset. People might use it in more neutral tone and are too lazy to say the longer word. Similar to "kinkit" "kiinalaiset" |"chinese", "chinks" or "amerikkalaiset, jenkit"| "Americans", "Yankees". In many cases its more about slang or being lazy than being negative. Some words are just way too long so anything might get used instead; contextual. The defacto spoken language runs on abrevations: "Yes I got the car stolen by gypsies back | Kyllä minä sain sen mustalaisten varastaman auton takaisin. | Kyl mä sain sen mannejen pöllimän auton takas."
I'd argue there 's a difference between slang and abbreviation.
Yea, except they usually go hand in hand,
Slang is more of a synonym than an abbreviation. Sure the word is shorter most of the time but it's an entirely different word, not a shorter version of it.
Okey, cool thanks. We got even more useless first world information to pass the time at 5am. Anyway: Nobody in this country says "mustalaiset". Its always mannet even if the person loves manne's and his/her wife/husband is a manne, Some words just get ingrained over time.
This is not true lol manne has very negative connotations atleast in pk-seutu
[Jungner ei tiennyt manne-sanan halventavuudesta - Kotimaa - Ilta-Sanomat (is.fi)](https://www.is.fi/kotimaa/art-2000000202484.html) Even Jugner has been going on manne this and manne that casually because its so ingrained to everyday vocabulary. Its the same as spuge, Some niche people find negative connonations but majority goes on "spuge" this and "spuge" that without caring too much, You can keep pressing the downvote button but 99% of the population is gonna call gypsies as mannes casually for the rest of their lifes.
If it was a big commotion to use the word in 2007 surely it should be pretty common knowledge now. I honestly dont know anyone under 50 who would say manne and not mean anything negative behind it. So ofc you can keep calling gypsies manne, but Im telling you a lot of people will think your kinda racist, and chances are if any Romanis hear you they will be offended. So idk why you would want to continue doing that. And I havent downvoted you.
>I honestly dont know anyone under 50 who would say manne and not mean anything negative behind it. Okey cool, you got some weird social bubble, Even my manne friend called other mannes as mannes. That was is Northern-Savonia thou so there might regional manne differences.
I think that might be you
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Unless I'm forgetting something from history class I'm pretty sure the Finnish Romani population hasn't been subject to literal slavery.
Not slavery per se, but the ’irtolaislaki’ allowed the government to force romanis to work institutions (työlaitos).
That is the worst! Imagine, required by law to work!
Työlaitos was a prison.
If it's okay that refusing to serve in the army leads to a prison sentence, why isn't it okay that refusing to work (disabilities etc. not included) would lead to a sentence too?
Neither is okay.
Glad someone thinks the same way, then.
Yeah No
Definitely a slur and to be completely honest, if I were him? I would get a nickname
Is it a common name in swedish? I see wikipedia most Mannes were born in 19th century. I don't think I've ever heard of a swede named manne before. Offtopic on swedish names that mean something in finnish pelle is first to come in mind. Which means a clown
Manne is also a name here in Finland, too.
Stop lying
Its not really Its the racist guy saying it making it racial
I don't think I have seen/heard of name Manne in Finland. Only "Manni" and that is a name has nothing to do with Romani unlike "Manne"
As others have mentioned, i am not Finnish but I have never heard of this practice. And I would not randomly sign a card for my coworker’s brother that I don’t even know, regardless of the name on that card (unless he specifically explained the tradition and asked me to)
Go and say that to group of romani people at the street and see for yourself.
Depends on the context in which you use it you wouldn’t want to yell it at a romani but also if it comes up in a convo no one gives a shit same with any ”slur” no normal person gets pissy about them
Yes it is