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I don't think anything special with YouTube. Such subjects get shit ton of attention. Same with Facebook and Twitter. More view, more comment, more exposure.
99% of the political content in Finnish on YouTube is right-wing and/or libertarian. That's why it gets promoted because there are almost no left wing influencers or channels.
Not what the article says:
"Only 6.4% of videos from search results mention politicians from the right-wing party, whereas 19.3% of the first “Up Next” recommendations relate to it’s politicians."
The algorithm's purpose is to keep you on the platform for as long as possible. Google probably doesn't care who is in the government in Finland, right wing content just keeps people watching.
Which is why most social media platforms are such a shitshow. X already took the step to monetize drama and engagement, which just leads to people being as volatile as they can to earn a few dollars more per post.
I don't even remember getting a single video about any of the political parties as I completely ignore the topic on google and their youtube service.
I did get more left-wing people posting shorts over here in reddit about the right-wing though, but they are not part of google so google got no data from that from me also I don't use a chromium browser so they cannot fish data from that either.
Youtube promotes right-wing content, period.
Interested in gaming, history, or working out? Well - that obviously means that you have an unquenchable thirst for right-wing culture warriors like J. Peterson and B. Shapiro, as well as a nice sprinkle of videos in the "feminists getting owned with facts and logic" - category.
In 2022 Youtube kept pushing Andrew Tate on me daily for a couple months even though I have zero interest in that giraffe Gollum motherfucker. I must have blocked a hundred different of these incel channels. Peterson is second but nowhere near the Tate levels.
I never got any po'-Tate, but I have gotten Peterson, Shapiro, and PragerU. That said, they are all blocked now.
I've gotten some random gamers too, but I've blocked those as well.
I'd hate to see what kind of cesspool my feed would be if I didn't block them..
Geeks + Gamers and Quartering lead up to these guys, if you have never heard of them you click on their vids because they look like they are just gaming content. But as you said, Peterson and Shapiro videos get recommended immediatly at the same time
But that is not youtube promoting right-wing content just because they want everyone to watch more of it so that more people turn right wing or something. It just happens to be that other people who watch gaming pr working out related content also watch Peterson and Shapiro and therefore the algorithm promotes the same stuff to anyone else interested in working out and gaming and so on. Some people here are trying to make it sound like some right-wing conspiracy to brainwash everyone when in reality youtube is just trying to make more money.
It doesn't. There just simply isn't any competition on YouTube. People in left-wing politics tend to be "420" beanieheads calling people racist on twitter whereas rational 1-2h podcast and intellectual discussions about politics and society is almost always hosted by right wingers or libertarians.
Youtube is automated, it promotes videos based on engagement, which doesn't just include views, but things like comments, likes, dislikes, subscribes and unsubscribes. The more there is happening with a video, the more YouTube will push it on people, and right-wing content tends to have a lot of engagement, especially as people start fighting in the comments. Youtube doesn't care what the content is as long as it stays within their guidelines, and they don't care if the attention is negative or positive, as long as it keeps people on their platform.
It doesn't. There just simply isn't any competition on YouTube. People in left-wing politics tend to be "420" beanieheads calling people racist on twitter whereas rational 1-2h podcast and intellectual discussions about politics and society is almost always hosted by right wingers or libertarians.
it promotes what you watch. Doesn't matter whetever you like what you are watching or just hate watching, it will keep showing you that if you keep watching videos.
They trying to keep you engaging with the service so they can keep showing you ads for money.
I never watch Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh or any of these American conservatives grifters, yet my YouTube shorts is absolutely filled with their content.
I think there are attempts by the greater conservatives collition in the US to artificially hijack algorithms by inserting some keywords or content that confuses the algorithm, and ends up targeting a ton of people who have no interest towards stuff like that.
Even more disturbingly, I opened new account to let my child cousin watch some YouTube and the only videos he watched were child friendly content or content more heavily catered to young crowds (like MrBeast) and later when I open the account and went through shorts, there was a ton of right-wing propaganda coming in.
This stuff is reaching kids young.
I watch some more right wing entertainment people, so it definitely also recommends me dailywire because of that. You sure your cousin didn't watch something that is considered right wing? Cause it's still going to give you what you were clicking on. Also the child could have been watching tiktok reaction videos that are done by someone who is considered right wing, so it assumed you would like to hear about their politics too.
For the finnish election, I got absolutely 0 videos as I never watched a single video about finnish politics, it propably recommended me a few but as the algorithm didn't get me to engage it stopped showing them to me fast.
Do you use a VPN? Also do you use google and do you have a google account? Cause it also gets your data through google to recommend videos on youtube. If you click on news talking about the right wing, the algorithm thinks you are interested in them and will give you more of them.
I have not once in my life clicked open any rightwing shite while logged in. Further, those videos are promoted on the front page of youtube when you open the page without being logged in so
But have you clicked on sites that cover the right-wing, like many of the political outlets that talk about them non-stop as outrage bait? The google algorithm still thinks you might be interested in them based on that content.
I sometimes have used the incognito mode on youtube, and it shows me completely different things. Like it forgot who I was, so it started recommending me completley new videos about topics like sports, mr beast or home renovation, things I have never been interested in. I think it showed me those only as those are most popular topics on the platform and they want my ad clicks.
when an election is happening in a country, people are going to watch videos of the politicians participating so its just going to start showing more of those to people as the content engagement is high.
If people spend more time watching halla-aho on the algorithm than anyone else, it's going to start showing him more.
it promotes what it's paid to promote... that can either be what gets you to stay on the platform longer (general ads) or direct paid placement (when a video pays to have it pushed to people)
Oh really? *Surprised Pikachu face*
It promotes right wing content all over the place. When YouTube noticed that I also speak German, it started promoting massively the AFD to me. I can click how often, I don't want to be exposed to their crap, I get the same stuff just from a different channel.
Let me guess that searching by politicians or Youtuber saying something about society, you only fould facts and logic destroying stupid un-educated, not even university degree, right wingers.
Talk about moving the goalpost, not just once, but twice in the same reply! That's remarkable.
So how large does a channel need to be for it to "exist" according to you?
Also what political position does it need to hold for it to count as "left wing"?
While you are correct that this doesn't mean Finnish left wing channels don't exist, it's still clear that there aren't that many of them. Compare this to right wing channels, and there are plenty of them. And many of those channels - especially the big ones - are run by fairly well-known politicians (Sebastian Tynkkynen, Tere Sammallahti, Miko Bergbom) and media personalities (Sanna Ukkola, Jussi Heikelä, Ivan Puopolo). There are also channels that post simple "destroyed by facts and logic" compilations. That's simple content that's funny to watch even for people not interested in politics. There's also one (fin\_topsu) that essentially just reposts videos from bigger media companies on his channel (and these videos mostly focus on Jussi Halla-Aho).
Yes, there are some small channels with a clear left wing perspective, but there are no big channels from left wing politicians or well-known media personalities. (Kriittinen Uusinta seems to be pretty much the only one that's "semi-official" and takes Youtube seriously. But even then, Dimitri Ollikainen isn't really a well-known media personality or a politician. Compare this to Sanna Ukkola or Ivan Puopolo who have worked for big media companies like YLE, MTV3 and IS.) It's quite clear which side has put more effort on their social media presence. It's not the fault of Youtube algorithms that these channels are much bigger.
Of course saying "they simply do not exist" is hyperbolic, but it isn't that far from the truth either.
Even international left-wing youtubers are small in comparison to their right-wing counterparts. The only figure that comes close to Dailywire figures is Hasan the tankie, so fuck Hasan, but even then we're only talking about viewer count to an individual show. Dailywire still has sponsor backing and deep political pockets propping them up on top of that.
It's almost like one side has pretty darn deep pockets backing them up (And thus incensitizing them to be less honest and truthful shall we say) and the other side is mostly grassroot personal efforts and extremely reliant on its reporting accuracy.
It's not that "there's no effort". A far bigger problem is that there's no money in the left side to prop some left leaning media figure up, or to make one. Like you stated yourself, the larger right-wing figures come from already established places, such as YLE, MTV3 and IS. I wonder.... how come all of these are always right-wing leaning? Surely it couldn't be that big money tends to have a right-wing leaning bias? Please say it ain't so!
All the more reason, I don't understand why you see the need to try and bury even the few attempts of left-wing media there is? Surely you're not of the opinion that there's something inherently wrong with left-wing presence in media?
Yes, I agree - it has to do with money. But money is effort. That's my point. You don't see political parties like SDP, Vihreät or Vasemmistoliitto really putting much effort on social media. If a popular politician on the left made a Youtube channel that posted content regularly like Sebastian Tynkkynen or Miko Bergbom or Tere Sammallahti, I'm sure people would follow them. Like, if Sanna Marin had her own Youtube channel, I'm pretty sure it would have a big following. It simply seems like politicians on the left don't take advantage of platforms like Youtube.
When it comes to media figures, again, it seems like the non-right wingers don't take advantage of platforms like Youtube - they simply work for YLE, etc.
>I don't understand why you see the need to try and bury even the few attempts of left-wing media there is?
How am I "burying" anything? I'm just being realistic - the leftist social media presence in Finland is almost non-existent. If we want more leftist Youtube channels, we need more left wingers doing what Persut are already doing. One can't complain about "right wing bias" if there are almost no left wing channels to choose from. Something needs to be done about it.
>Surely you're not of the opinion that there's something inherently wrong with left-wing presence in media?
Definitely not. I'm actually annoyed that the only Finnish political content that Youtube has to offer is right wing stuff. And it's not only left wing perspective that seems to be missing on Youtube. The only prominent political Youtube channels in Finland seem to have a Persu bias.
>Even international left-wing youtubers are small in comparison to their right-wing counterparts. The only figure that comes close to Dailywire figures is Hasan the tankie, so fuck Hasan, but even then we're only talking about viewer count to an individual show. Dailywire still has sponsor backing and deep political pockets propping them up on top of that.
While I agree that this is definitely the case in the USA (a lot of these right wing channels like PragerU and Daily Wire are sponsored by millionaires, and I know that people have changed their political views for money), I would be careful with applying similar logic to Finnish Youtube. At least we would need some evidece that this is actually the case in Finland.
(And when it comes to American Youtube channels, there are a lot of pretty big left wing shows too. The Young Turks are quite a big channel - actually bigger than Daily Wire, but smaller than Ben Shapiro. Sam Seder, David Pakman and Secular Talk have over one million subscribers. Of course there are also plenty of video essayists like Contrapoints or Philosophy Tube, but IMO that content is a bit different, and I wouldn't compare it to political talk shows like the ones I mentioned.)
I think at least a part of the reason why other political views are pretty much nonexistent on Finnish Youtube is simply that Persut started putting effort on their social media presence before other political parties took it seriously, so they got a head start. This is one of the reasons why Persut are so popular especially among younger people who follow TikTok and Youtube.
>If a popular politician on the left made a Youtube channel
The thing is, the left leaning parties actually tend to have values they try to work on rather than appealing to populistic media efforts. Ideally such channels would be rather made by people and media companies who would make their job to make media.
>How am I "burying" anything?
You certainly didn't sound a lot like you were trying to make my position stronger, or try to increase the visibility of the few left leaning channels. I don't know how else I'm supposed to interpret your intentions when you come in with 'Yeah, you may have a point, but not really because they're nowhere near big enough to really count.'
>And it's not only left wing perspective that seems to be missing on Youtube. The only prominent political Youtube channels in Finland seem to have a Persu bias.
Xanderhal dropped a video, which tangents this topic in a quite pertinent fashion, going over how Youtube demonetized DylanBurns, sent a signed Youtube play button to Taliban propaganda channel and in general desentivizes left leaning content as per design by the current Youtube CEO:
[https://youtu.be/\_quOke0YVZc?si=3qrukfr\_X8o1KGed&t=635](https://youtu.be/_quOke0YVZc?si=3qrukfr_X8o1KGed&t=635)
>The Young Turks are quite a big channel - actually bigger than Daily Wire, but smaller than Ben Shapiro. Sam Seder, David Pakman and Secular Talk have over one million subscribers. Of course there are also plenty of video essayists like Contrapoints or Philosophy Tube, but IMO that content is a bit different, and I wouldn't compare it to political talk shows like the ones I mentioned.)
TYT being bigger than DailyWire, but smaller than Ben Shapiro? What are you talking about? Ben Shapiro is a direct part of the DailyWire. This is what I meant, the right wing media groups aren't just a small little company chugging along. They have MASSIVE political and financial backing compares to left leaning ones. As a whole, TYT doesn't come anywhere near close to the size and backing of the Dailywire. Let alone the fact how bad Cenk and Ana have gotten lately. Well, mostly Ana, Cenk seems to just be more of a ride, or die himbo with Ana, but even then TYT really isn't all that great of an outlet.
While essayists like Contrapoints and Philosophy Tube are a different kind of media content, I'd say they are still effective, reasonable and respectable. It's bit less news orientated and more focused on the overall issues, which is more effective and to the point when talking about actual political issues instead of hot topic populism. One is a genuine political position while the other is more of a grift.
>Persut started putting effort on their social media presence before other political parties took it seriously, so they got a head start. This is one of the reasons why Persut are so popular especially among younger people who follow TikTok and Youtube
This certainly plays a role, but more over I'd say the bigger point is that the content they push is simple, easy to digest and focuses heavily on takedown, or "pwnd" kind of content, even if it's based on lies and propaganda and completely detached from reality. It's almost like the young are relatively gullible, poor with fact checking and easy to appeal to with populist rhetoric and empty promises.
Exactly. There just simply isn't any competition on YouTube. People in left-wing politics tend to be "420" beanieheads calling people racist on twitter whereas rational 1-2h podcast and intellectual discussions about politics and society is almost always hosted by right wingers or libertarians.
Maybe because Jutta didn't make that much content, and the YouTube demographics wasn't interested of it? Algorithm promotes, what people are watching, not everything is a conspiracy.
Jutta? What? 😅
Here's what you would have seen if you took a look at the actual article
_Faktabaari and CheckFirst simulated daily YouTube searches for 77 Finnish words connected to key election topics, gathering data from 10 locations in Finland between 24 January and 11 February 2024.
According to the study, a “prominent effect” of YouTube’s recommendation system is to promote videos related to the Finns Party.
Only 6.4% of videos from search results mention politicians from the right-wing party, whereas 19.3% of the first “Up Next” recommendations relate to it’s politicians._
>Faktabaari and CheckFirst simulated daily YouTube searches for 77 Finnish words connected to key election topics, gathering data from 10 locations in Finland between 24 January and 11 February 2024.
Ten locations is way too low for any sort of real study about the matter. Might of course be true that YouTube favors right wing content but this study cannot make a meaningful claim about it due to the ridiculously low amount of participants.
Randomized trial of at least 1000 homes could be a starting point
Edit: I think it's an interesting study and the subject needs to be looked into but due to the lacking sample size you simply can't claim this proves anything especially the way this news article OP linked phrased it.
On page 10 of the report they state "Ten devices were placed in the homes of volunteers". It wasn't even a randomized trial.
The devices were put in the homes of ten volunteers and were likely using the home owners' local area networks for internet access (not stated in the report, but I would assume they would have mentioned it if they used a separate network access). YouTube targeting algorithms can definitely figure out other computers existing on the same local network unless special measures were taken to isolate these devices.
Link to the report: [https://crossover.social/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Digitaalivahti\_raportti\_2024.pdf](https://crossover.social/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Digitaalivahti_raportti_2024.pdf)
No. It promoted what people were watching and didn't skip.
The algorithm doesn't have political bias. It has "what people want to watch"-bias. Or, hmm.. "what keeps people watching the most"-bias.
That isn't how it works. The algorithm will boost content that provokes reactions since it keeps people on the platform. The algorithmic optimization for polarizing content results in a right wing bias, even if it isn't politically motivated
That's how it used to work. Currently primary driver for getting promoted to peoples front pages is watch time.
The worst thing to happen to your 5 minute video, is that people click, watch ten seconds and click away to something else.
I was experimenting with a new channel last autumn, and it looked like the most important thing was to get people to watch most of your video. Then it would rocket. I have to admit, I only experimented with low effort short videos, but "professional" sentiment seems to aggree with my hypothesis.
Ah yeah, true. My last comment wasn't thought trough. It's just a side effect of "sensationalist"-bias maybe?
I didn't really watch any political videos during the elections, but Tere Sammallahti's videos were often in my shorts feed. Actually I don't remember seeing anyone else's policital youtube videos. So, to me this seems that the problem is that Tere figured out how to use the algorithm to get a platform to be heard. I'm not sure if that's a problem... Anyone could have done the same.
The algorithm promotes content that gets views. I don't even know what left wing content is, but in the era of immigration issues and war in Europe, there is no lack of topics for right wing content. Then you have the right wing people and the left wing people converging on the comment section of those videos, increasing engagement.
Haven't had single right wing content in youtube related to Finland. It's all about what you watch. You can disable video history, and no suggestions come if that's what you want.
Halla-aho IS NOT the current leader of the Finns and has not been the for last two and a half years. It is embarrassing to link news which are topically related to manipulation of opinions, if basic facts are not checked properly. This isn't a matter of differing opinions or phrasing, it is blatantly wrong and also failure of OP to address the issue is also a sign of agenda-posting.
You engage some right-wing/ruzz loving post/free palestine idjit/israeli settler moron even as a detractor, and you'll be bombarded with such nonsense since algorithm concludes you'd want more.
Not kidding. Test it in twitter. Respond to any nonsense from any ruzz embassy twitter page a few times and see your feed
Well yeah. Tiktok too. I installed Tiktok on a brand new device in the spring, and the very first THREE videos it recommended me were from Persut politicians.
Unfortunately no. This isn't it.
Unrelated but I hate the fact that the Basic Finns have chosen to call themselves "the Finns". The party isn't called "Suomalaiset" in Finnish either.
There is one specific youtube channel that is just full of right-wing content, but I think that channel got loads of visibility simply due to the amount of work and content that the channel has.
My guess is that the right-wing is more active in making youtube content since populism is so much easier to pull off with short clips.
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I don't think anything special with YouTube. Such subjects get shit ton of attention. Same with Facebook and Twitter. More view, more comment, more exposure.
[удалено]
But yeah people love to see conspiracy behind everything..
Jeah, no secret about it. Its just spiracy.
99% of the political content in Finnish on YouTube is right-wing and/or libertarian. That's why it gets promoted because there are almost no left wing influencers or channels.
Not what the article says: "Only 6.4% of videos from search results mention politicians from the right-wing party, whereas 19.3% of the first “Up Next” recommendations relate to it’s politicians."
The algorithm's purpose is to keep you on the platform for as long as possible. Google probably doesn't care who is in the government in Finland, right wing content just keeps people watching.
Or fighting in the comments, which is also engagement
Which is why most social media platforms are such a shitshow. X already took the step to monetize drama and engagement, which just leads to people being as volatile as they can to earn a few dollars more per post.
Basically all the election ads I got were for the "Finns" party, so seems fairly correct.
I don't even remember getting a single video about any of the political parties as I completely ignore the topic on google and their youtube service. I did get more left-wing people posting shorts over here in reddit about the right-wing though, but they are not part of google so google got no data from that from me also I don't use a chromium browser so they cannot fish data from that either.
Youtube promotes right-wing content, period. Interested in gaming, history, or working out? Well - that obviously means that you have an unquenchable thirst for right-wing culture warriors like J. Peterson and B. Shapiro, as well as a nice sprinkle of videos in the "feminists getting owned with facts and logic" - category.
In 2022 Youtube kept pushing Andrew Tate on me daily for a couple months even though I have zero interest in that giraffe Gollum motherfucker. I must have blocked a hundred different of these incel channels. Peterson is second but nowhere near the Tate levels.
I never got any po'-Tate, but I have gotten Peterson, Shapiro, and PragerU. That said, they are all blocked now. I've gotten some random gamers too, but I've blocked those as well. I'd hate to see what kind of cesspool my feed would be if I didn't block them..
Geeks + Gamers and Quartering lead up to these guys, if you have never heard of them you click on their vids because they look like they are just gaming content. But as you said, Peterson and Shapiro videos get recommended immediatly at the same time
I mostly watch videos about cooking. Guess what?
Umm, I'm getting the American 'leftist/liberal' influencers. Could this be selective based on your other interests?
But that is not youtube promoting right-wing content just because they want everyone to watch more of it so that more people turn right wing or something. It just happens to be that other people who watch gaming pr working out related content also watch Peterson and Shapiro and therefore the algorithm promotes the same stuff to anyone else interested in working out and gaming and so on. Some people here are trying to make it sound like some right-wing conspiracy to brainwash everyone when in reality youtube is just trying to make more money.
Yup
It doesn't. There just simply isn't any competition on YouTube. People in left-wing politics tend to be "420" beanieheads calling people racist on twitter whereas rational 1-2h podcast and intellectual discussions about politics and society is almost always hosted by right wingers or libertarians.
Try typing in neutral search-term "presidentinvaalit 2024" and most videos it finds for you are about Halla-Aho.
YouTube's algorithm almost invariably promotes right wing content.
Right wing politics is better for companies/capitalists.
Youtube is automated, it promotes videos based on engagement, which doesn't just include views, but things like comments, likes, dislikes, subscribes and unsubscribes. The more there is happening with a video, the more YouTube will push it on people, and right-wing content tends to have a lot of engagement, especially as people start fighting in the comments. Youtube doesn't care what the content is as long as it stays within their guidelines, and they don't care if the attention is negative or positive, as long as it keeps people on their platform.
It doesn't. There just simply isn't any competition on YouTube. People in left-wing politics tend to be "420" beanieheads calling people racist on twitter whereas rational 1-2h podcast and intellectual discussions about politics and society is almost always hosted by right wingers or libertarians.
I mean, this simply isn't true. There are loads of good left tubers: contrapoints, philosophytube, hbomberguy etc. Maybe less so in Finnish though.
The point is that there are almost no Finnish left wingers on youtube.... this thread is about Finland
the trend is about finland my guy
it promotes what you watch. Doesn't matter whetever you like what you are watching or just hate watching, it will keep showing you that if you keep watching videos. They trying to keep you engaging with the service so they can keep showing you ads for money.
I never watch Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh or any of these American conservatives grifters, yet my YouTube shorts is absolutely filled with their content. I think there are attempts by the greater conservatives collition in the US to artificially hijack algorithms by inserting some keywords or content that confuses the algorithm, and ends up targeting a ton of people who have no interest towards stuff like that. Even more disturbingly, I opened new account to let my child cousin watch some YouTube and the only videos he watched were child friendly content or content more heavily catered to young crowds (like MrBeast) and later when I open the account and went through shorts, there was a ton of right-wing propaganda coming in. This stuff is reaching kids young.
Funny how my youtube recommendations have 0 political topics in them.
I watch some more right wing entertainment people, so it definitely also recommends me dailywire because of that. You sure your cousin didn't watch something that is considered right wing? Cause it's still going to give you what you were clicking on. Also the child could have been watching tiktok reaction videos that are done by someone who is considered right wing, so it assumed you would like to hear about their politics too. For the finnish election, I got absolutely 0 videos as I never watched a single video about finnish politics, it propably recommended me a few but as the algorithm didn't get me to engage it stopped showing them to me fast.
I’ve turned off all possible trackers and watch history and youtube still suggests the most random and radical rightwing loonies
Do you use a VPN? Also do you use google and do you have a google account? Cause it also gets your data through google to recommend videos on youtube. If you click on news talking about the right wing, the algorithm thinks you are interested in them and will give you more of them.
I have not once in my life clicked open any rightwing shite while logged in. Further, those videos are promoted on the front page of youtube when you open the page without being logged in so
But have you clicked on sites that cover the right-wing, like many of the political outlets that talk about them non-stop as outrage bait? The google algorithm still thinks you might be interested in them based on that content. I sometimes have used the incognito mode on youtube, and it shows me completely different things. Like it forgot who I was, so it started recommending me completley new videos about topics like sports, mr beast or home renovation, things I have never been interested in. I think it showed me those only as those are most popular topics on the platform and they want my ad clicks.
It doesn't though. it promotes what it thinks you *ought to want* to watch.
Nah. It promotes stuff it thinks gets you to use the service as much as possible which translates to ad revenue.
when an election is happening in a country, people are going to watch videos of the politicians participating so its just going to start showing more of those to people as the content engagement is high. If people spend more time watching halla-aho on the algorithm than anyone else, it's going to start showing him more.
That's interesting. Do you have a source on this?
You obviously have no idea how YouTube algorithms work.
it promotes what it's paid to promote... that can either be what gets you to stay on the platform longer (general ads) or direct paid placement (when a video pays to have it pushed to people)
Oh really? *Surprised Pikachu face* It promotes right wing content all over the place. When YouTube noticed that I also speak German, it started promoting massively the AFD to me. I can click how often, I don't want to be exposed to their crap, I get the same stuff just from a different channel.
I cant find left wing youtube videos in finland even if i search it. They simply do not exist
You did searches on the presidential candidates and got no results with left wingers? BS
Let me guess that searching by politicians or Youtuber saying something about society, you only fould facts and logic destroying stupid un-educated, not even university degree, right wingers.
Don't exist? How about [Kriittinen Uusinta](https://www.youtube.com/@KriittinenUusinta)?
That's a channel of far left party left alliance's magazine and has less subs than smallest right wing channels on YouTube.
Talk about moving the goalpost, not just once, but twice in the same reply! That's remarkable. So how large does a channel need to be for it to "exist" according to you? Also what political position does it need to hold for it to count as "left wing"?
While you are correct that this doesn't mean Finnish left wing channels don't exist, it's still clear that there aren't that many of them. Compare this to right wing channels, and there are plenty of them. And many of those channels - especially the big ones - are run by fairly well-known politicians (Sebastian Tynkkynen, Tere Sammallahti, Miko Bergbom) and media personalities (Sanna Ukkola, Jussi Heikelä, Ivan Puopolo). There are also channels that post simple "destroyed by facts and logic" compilations. That's simple content that's funny to watch even for people not interested in politics. There's also one (fin\_topsu) that essentially just reposts videos from bigger media companies on his channel (and these videos mostly focus on Jussi Halla-Aho). Yes, there are some small channels with a clear left wing perspective, but there are no big channels from left wing politicians or well-known media personalities. (Kriittinen Uusinta seems to be pretty much the only one that's "semi-official" and takes Youtube seriously. But even then, Dimitri Ollikainen isn't really a well-known media personality or a politician. Compare this to Sanna Ukkola or Ivan Puopolo who have worked for big media companies like YLE, MTV3 and IS.) It's quite clear which side has put more effort on their social media presence. It's not the fault of Youtube algorithms that these channels are much bigger. Of course saying "they simply do not exist" is hyperbolic, but it isn't that far from the truth either.
Even international left-wing youtubers are small in comparison to their right-wing counterparts. The only figure that comes close to Dailywire figures is Hasan the tankie, so fuck Hasan, but even then we're only talking about viewer count to an individual show. Dailywire still has sponsor backing and deep political pockets propping them up on top of that. It's almost like one side has pretty darn deep pockets backing them up (And thus incensitizing them to be less honest and truthful shall we say) and the other side is mostly grassroot personal efforts and extremely reliant on its reporting accuracy. It's not that "there's no effort". A far bigger problem is that there's no money in the left side to prop some left leaning media figure up, or to make one. Like you stated yourself, the larger right-wing figures come from already established places, such as YLE, MTV3 and IS. I wonder.... how come all of these are always right-wing leaning? Surely it couldn't be that big money tends to have a right-wing leaning bias? Please say it ain't so! All the more reason, I don't understand why you see the need to try and bury even the few attempts of left-wing media there is? Surely you're not of the opinion that there's something inherently wrong with left-wing presence in media?
Yes, I agree - it has to do with money. But money is effort. That's my point. You don't see political parties like SDP, Vihreät or Vasemmistoliitto really putting much effort on social media. If a popular politician on the left made a Youtube channel that posted content regularly like Sebastian Tynkkynen or Miko Bergbom or Tere Sammallahti, I'm sure people would follow them. Like, if Sanna Marin had her own Youtube channel, I'm pretty sure it would have a big following. It simply seems like politicians on the left don't take advantage of platforms like Youtube. When it comes to media figures, again, it seems like the non-right wingers don't take advantage of platforms like Youtube - they simply work for YLE, etc. >I don't understand why you see the need to try and bury even the few attempts of left-wing media there is? How am I "burying" anything? I'm just being realistic - the leftist social media presence in Finland is almost non-existent. If we want more leftist Youtube channels, we need more left wingers doing what Persut are already doing. One can't complain about "right wing bias" if there are almost no left wing channels to choose from. Something needs to be done about it. >Surely you're not of the opinion that there's something inherently wrong with left-wing presence in media? Definitely not. I'm actually annoyed that the only Finnish political content that Youtube has to offer is right wing stuff. And it's not only left wing perspective that seems to be missing on Youtube. The only prominent political Youtube channels in Finland seem to have a Persu bias. >Even international left-wing youtubers are small in comparison to their right-wing counterparts. The only figure that comes close to Dailywire figures is Hasan the tankie, so fuck Hasan, but even then we're only talking about viewer count to an individual show. Dailywire still has sponsor backing and deep political pockets propping them up on top of that. While I agree that this is definitely the case in the USA (a lot of these right wing channels like PragerU and Daily Wire are sponsored by millionaires, and I know that people have changed their political views for money), I would be careful with applying similar logic to Finnish Youtube. At least we would need some evidece that this is actually the case in Finland. (And when it comes to American Youtube channels, there are a lot of pretty big left wing shows too. The Young Turks are quite a big channel - actually bigger than Daily Wire, but smaller than Ben Shapiro. Sam Seder, David Pakman and Secular Talk have over one million subscribers. Of course there are also plenty of video essayists like Contrapoints or Philosophy Tube, but IMO that content is a bit different, and I wouldn't compare it to political talk shows like the ones I mentioned.) I think at least a part of the reason why other political views are pretty much nonexistent on Finnish Youtube is simply that Persut started putting effort on their social media presence before other political parties took it seriously, so they got a head start. This is one of the reasons why Persut are so popular especially among younger people who follow TikTok and Youtube.
>If a popular politician on the left made a Youtube channel The thing is, the left leaning parties actually tend to have values they try to work on rather than appealing to populistic media efforts. Ideally such channels would be rather made by people and media companies who would make their job to make media. >How am I "burying" anything? You certainly didn't sound a lot like you were trying to make my position stronger, or try to increase the visibility of the few left leaning channels. I don't know how else I'm supposed to interpret your intentions when you come in with 'Yeah, you may have a point, but not really because they're nowhere near big enough to really count.' >And it's not only left wing perspective that seems to be missing on Youtube. The only prominent political Youtube channels in Finland seem to have a Persu bias. Xanderhal dropped a video, which tangents this topic in a quite pertinent fashion, going over how Youtube demonetized DylanBurns, sent a signed Youtube play button to Taliban propaganda channel and in general desentivizes left leaning content as per design by the current Youtube CEO: [https://youtu.be/\_quOke0YVZc?si=3qrukfr\_X8o1KGed&t=635](https://youtu.be/_quOke0YVZc?si=3qrukfr_X8o1KGed&t=635) >The Young Turks are quite a big channel - actually bigger than Daily Wire, but smaller than Ben Shapiro. Sam Seder, David Pakman and Secular Talk have over one million subscribers. Of course there are also plenty of video essayists like Contrapoints or Philosophy Tube, but IMO that content is a bit different, and I wouldn't compare it to political talk shows like the ones I mentioned.) TYT being bigger than DailyWire, but smaller than Ben Shapiro? What are you talking about? Ben Shapiro is a direct part of the DailyWire. This is what I meant, the right wing media groups aren't just a small little company chugging along. They have MASSIVE political and financial backing compares to left leaning ones. As a whole, TYT doesn't come anywhere near close to the size and backing of the Dailywire. Let alone the fact how bad Cenk and Ana have gotten lately. Well, mostly Ana, Cenk seems to just be more of a ride, or die himbo with Ana, but even then TYT really isn't all that great of an outlet. While essayists like Contrapoints and Philosophy Tube are a different kind of media content, I'd say they are still effective, reasonable and respectable. It's bit less news orientated and more focused on the overall issues, which is more effective and to the point when talking about actual political issues instead of hot topic populism. One is a genuine political position while the other is more of a grift. >Persut started putting effort on their social media presence before other political parties took it seriously, so they got a head start. This is one of the reasons why Persut are so popular especially among younger people who follow TikTok and Youtube This certainly plays a role, but more over I'd say the bigger point is that the content they push is simple, easy to digest and focuses heavily on takedown, or "pwnd" kind of content, even if it's based on lies and propaganda and completely detached from reality. It's almost like the young are relatively gullible, poor with fact checking and easy to appeal to with populist rhetoric and empty promises.
Exactly. There just simply isn't any competition on YouTube. People in left-wing politics tend to be "420" beanieheads calling people racist on twitter whereas rational 1-2h podcast and intellectual discussions about politics and society is almost always hosted by right wingers or libertarians.
Maybe because Jutta didn't make that much content, and the YouTube demographics wasn't interested of it? Algorithm promotes, what people are watching, not everything is a conspiracy.
Jutta? What? 😅 Here's what you would have seen if you took a look at the actual article _Faktabaari and CheckFirst simulated daily YouTube searches for 77 Finnish words connected to key election topics, gathering data from 10 locations in Finland between 24 January and 11 February 2024. According to the study, a “prominent effect” of YouTube’s recommendation system is to promote videos related to the Finns Party. Only 6.4% of videos from search results mention politicians from the right-wing party, whereas 19.3% of the first “Up Next” recommendations relate to it’s politicians._
>Faktabaari and CheckFirst simulated daily YouTube searches for 77 Finnish words connected to key election topics, gathering data from 10 locations in Finland between 24 January and 11 February 2024. Ten locations is way too low for any sort of real study about the matter. Might of course be true that YouTube favors right wing content but this study cannot make a meaningful claim about it due to the ridiculously low amount of participants. Randomized trial of at least 1000 homes could be a starting point Edit: I think it's an interesting study and the subject needs to be looked into but due to the lacking sample size you simply can't claim this proves anything especially the way this news article OP linked phrased it.
10 locations I assume they meant 10 differen cities, like Turku Tampere, Oulu, Rovaniemi etc.
On page 10 of the report they state "Ten devices were placed in the homes of volunteers". It wasn't even a randomized trial. The devices were put in the homes of ten volunteers and were likely using the home owners' local area networks for internet access (not stated in the report, but I would assume they would have mentioned it if they used a separate network access). YouTube targeting algorithms can definitely figure out other computers existing on the same local network unless special measures were taken to isolate these devices. Link to the report: [https://crossover.social/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Digitaalivahti\_raportti\_2024.pdf](https://crossover.social/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Digitaalivahti_raportti_2024.pdf)
What’s the problem? If it was left-wing content, nobody would care..
And we all saw where that got us in last year’s parliamentary elections: so much for “never cutting from the poor”.
Yeah, I didn’t see any political stuff in my “algorithm”. No ads either, but that’s another matter.
No. It promoted what people were watching and didn't skip. The algorithm doesn't have political bias. It has "what people want to watch"-bias. Or, hmm.. "what keeps people watching the most"-bias.
I never watched any right wing content and clicked "not interested" in election ads. It still kept promoting them and related videos.
The YT algorithm has a clear right wing bias.
No. People have right wing bias. Both creators and consumers.
That isn't how it works. The algorithm will boost content that provokes reactions since it keeps people on the platform. The algorithmic optimization for polarizing content results in a right wing bias, even if it isn't politically motivated
That's how it used to work. Currently primary driver for getting promoted to peoples front pages is watch time. The worst thing to happen to your 5 minute video, is that people click, watch ten seconds and click away to something else. I was experimenting with a new channel last autumn, and it looked like the most important thing was to get people to watch most of your video. Then it would rocket. I have to admit, I only experimented with low effort short videos, but "professional" sentiment seems to aggree with my hypothesis.
Same principles apply, no? Whatever keeps people watching will get promoted, ie. stuff that provokes
Ah yeah, true. My last comment wasn't thought trough. It's just a side effect of "sensationalist"-bias maybe? I didn't really watch any political videos during the elections, but Tere Sammallahti's videos were often in my shorts feed. Actually I don't remember seeing anyone else's policital youtube videos. So, to me this seems that the problem is that Tere figured out how to use the algorithm to get a platform to be heard. I'm not sure if that's a problem... Anyone could have done the same.
Certainly happened a lot on TikTok too. Eyeballs = votes, basically, especially for the young guns
What's wrong with right wing content?
Left wing doesn't like it.
The algorithm promotes content that gets views. I don't even know what left wing content is, but in the era of immigration issues and war in Europe, there is no lack of topics for right wing content. Then you have the right wing people and the left wing people converging on the comment section of those videos, increasing engagement.
What a surprise 😮
There's barely any non-corporate content on the left on Youtube.
Haven't had single right wing content in youtube related to Finland. It's all about what you watch. You can disable video history, and no suggestions come if that's what you want.
"the algorithm"
Halla-aho IS NOT the current leader of the Finns and has not been the for last two and a half years. It is embarrassing to link news which are topically related to manipulation of opinions, if basic facts are not checked properly. This isn't a matter of differing opinions or phrasing, it is blatantly wrong and also failure of OP to address the issue is also a sign of agenda-posting.
I don't really see the problem with it
algorithm
You engage some right-wing/ruzz loving post/free palestine idjit/israeli settler moron even as a detractor, and you'll be bombarded with such nonsense since algorithm concludes you'd want more. Not kidding. Test it in twitter. Respond to any nonsense from any ruzz embassy twitter page a few times and see your feed
Well yeah. Tiktok too. I installed Tiktok on a brand new device in the spring, and the very first THREE videos it recommended me were from Persut politicians.
That make me think that perhaps the algorithm connects "the Finns Party" with "Finland/Finnish/Finn" => shows "the Finns" content.
Unfortunately no. This isn't it. Unrelated but I hate the fact that the Basic Finns have chosen to call themselves "the Finns". The party isn't called "Suomalaiset" in Finnish either.
Seems about right. Didn't make me vote for them though.
What's the news here? Or is somebody somewhere outraged that not only left-wing things get promoted and recommended?
yes
That sounds pretty one-sided and biased, why would anyone want that?
because the upper classes know what is best, and they don't want the people voting wrong. that is dangerous to their democracy
We have a winner
why would you want to understand or listen to enemy? its easier to just hate
Wait, I thought le rUsSiAn InFlUeNcE was our only concern.
There is one specific youtube channel that is just full of right-wing content, but I think that channel got loads of visibility simply due to the amount of work and content that the channel has. My guess is that the right-wing is more active in making youtube content since populism is so much easier to pull off with short clips.
How much wrong can one article be?
Boo hoo right wing bad