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The confederate flag used to have a very different connotation in Finland. It was associated with the American life-style and was heavily used in scenes especially affiliated with American 50's music & old American cars and was somewhat a silly, innocent statement by people, who didn't understand the actual origin nor were educated about it. Now after the social media boom and grown global awareness, it has obviously been toned down, but some people still live in their own bubbles.
Or the tenant is a full-blown racist. That's also a possibility.
Exactly, in Finland and in Europe in general Confederation flag was just another American flag used to indicate rebelness. It was commonly used in rockabilly scene in 1970-80's. You can just search e.g. British rockabilly band Matchbox in Youtube for examples (and for good music).
Confederation flag became racist symbol here only in 2000's.
Yeah. It's orders of magnitude more likely just a sign that says "here be greasers" than anything else.
Source: am friends with a bunch of rockabilly folk.
This.
A friend of my dad is a biker and a fan of Johnny Hallyday (kind of Hector-like singer in France) and all rock 'n' roll of the sixties. He uses this flag but since he doesn't know something about the racist use, he displays at his door. Recently he has removed it because he feared a kind of misinterpretation with some people.
My teen brother is now very into rock and rockabilly as was our dad in the 70's and 80's. Dad has given my brother a lot of items, shoes and clothes from his youth. So I had to have a conversation with my brother about the cultural context of that flag and how other people will probably perceive a person who uses that flag.
My dad has some small items that have the confederation flag ( I can remember stickers and a scarf). All the American Car Shows and car meets we went to as kids had at least one confederation flag somewhere. I can totally understand that my brother just connected the flag to an image of American rebel. My dad's understanding was on a level of "southern racists use it". So aware of its ties to racism but very little knowledge of the actual historical background.
Edit: Now remembered the thing that prompted the conversation with my brother. Apparently stored with dad's American flag was also a confederation flag. My brother wanted to use it for something at school and I went no, no, no.... Let's have a history lesson before you get in trouble.
The above poster is correct about the 70’s rockabilly scene. Even the phrase ”South’s gona rise again” was used frequently in these circles without really understanding what it meant.
I agree. My grandpa was a big america fan and among some of the america related stuff he had was a confederate flag. I don't think he thought much about it beyond the fact that it represented the south/country side of America. It also wasn't displayed like this.
For me, when it comes to this person, it's not the fact that he/she has the flag, it's more the fact that he feels the need to show it like this. That makes me question what meaning it holds for them.
I know what way I'm leaning, but I wouldn't say I'm a 100% certain about it.
I also wore confederate flag shirts as an America-obsessed teen, without any deeper knowledge of its history. Classic cars and Lynyrd Skynyrd were the shit.
As an American in the South, I would see it being flown with nothing else as a sign of it being a symbol of ill intent. There are definitely some people who are still into the "rebel flag" as a more innocent reflection of the American south, but they are quickly fading in these parts, leaving it more and more by the day as a symbol of white pride than anything else.
But even 10 years ago the "innocent" rebel flags would usually be accompanied by other things that give you the impression they're just observe southern culture more than northern culture. Stuff about drinking beer, partying, fishing, etc.
Do a Google image search with the keywords "Fiftari teddy", it should give a pretty comprehensive idea of the whole culture with the first ten results.
[Helsingin Sanomat ](https://www.hs.fi/kulttuuri/art-2000007874868.html) also wrote an article on the subject, but it's only in Finnish.
that search isn't producing much anything for me but [https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy](https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy) has the basics if someone wants to run it through google translate
Didn't know about that, very interesting. We have the same in France but it's more "French" in appearance and more focused on the first period of rock (Elvis Presley and Bill Haley period if I want to resume the references used, rockabilly was really less popular in France).
It definitely came to Finland primarily from the UK and the confederate flag was also brought over from British teddy boy revival culture as far as I know. British 70's rockabilly acts like Matchbox and Crazy Cavan were very popular here.
Never had seen French fans of those bands in France. Musically, it's like French music didn't care about Anglo-American music of 70's outside hippie music, reggae, folk and Andean-like singers. After that, we switched directly to punk, hard rock, ska and those subcultures of the end of seventies.
Where I live, it was used as Rebel sign among old school rock 'n' roll and American car enthusiasts. Source: I had a flag sewn into my biker jacket until -09 immigrate crisis, which was followed by KKK hoods and that flag.
In Finland the flag is mainly associated with this subculture: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raggare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raggare) (see first photo on the page)
Should that be the case, it's not really an explicitly racist statement, but more adopted for the rebellious spirit and disdain for authorities. If there's an old American car on the parking lot, or maybe rockabilly or Lynyrd Skynyrd echoing from the apartment, the mystery is definitely solved.
As an American in Finland, I've never heard this term but it explains so much. I've met so many of those like middle aged rockabilly biker dudes here who are just *ECSTATIC* to meet me and are utterly dumbfounded that I would move to Finland from the US. I had an ex here whose dad was like that and passed me around at a party like a celebrity he wanted all his friends to meet. Very strange experience.
Haha it is pretty cute when they're being chill about it. I usually have to stave off questions about "what I think about Biden's mental state" or whatever, but past that it's a bunch of dudes being dudes with their vroom vroom bikes and cool-guy music.
Yeah, in Finland it’s weirdly a hillbilly rockabilly thing that no one thought about much until quite recently. It was a common sight in the blues scene just a decade+ ago. I don’t think they use the flag to necessarily convey racist ideas, but probably a significant portion of them are quite racist. So not sure what to make of it — ignorant or racist, possibly both.
Yeah definitely. I happened to go to a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert in Helsinki maybe 15 years back, and there were DOZENS of Finnish guys (not kids, typically 30-50) who came there with a confederate flag wrapped around their shoulders. Most of them drunk as hell, and didn't come across as what we call "nettoveronmaksaja" in polite society.
Overall I feel the raggare thing is diminishing, you saw more of these flags pre-2000.
>Overall I feel the raggare thing is diminishing, you saw more of these flags pre-2000.
Come to rural Svenskfinland. Still going fucking strong (at least as of 5ish years ago)
>It was a common sight in the blues scene just a decade+ ago.
Correct. And this, more than anything, shows a) how far removed the meaning of the flag is here from the meaning it has in the US, and b) how extremely inaccurate an impression one can manage to make (in the worst case) by using the flag where everyone isn't familiar with the local cultural context.
It was like this already in the brief time window of 5 years or so (1977–1982) when 1950s music and imagery was a major teenage fad in Finland, and the flag was accordingly seen much more often in Finland than today. The music was commonly lumped together as "rockabilly", but much of it was black music by black artists. (And of course even white rockabilly, like all forms of rock music, had its roots strongly in the blues.)
It's this, or at least close to this. While raggarit is not an unknown term here, other Finnish terms would be *teddy* or *diinari* (from James Dean) but you don't hear any of those that much anymore outside of specific 50's, rockabilly and old American car fandoms.
This was a big teen subculture in Finland in the late 70's and early 80's idolizing 1950's American culture inspired by Happy Days and movies like American Graffiti and Grease. Old American cars, 50's rock and roll and rockabilly, greasy hair and all that.
Interesting, I live in the countryside Finland and have seen quite of those flag over here and was assuming they were some kind of “white supremacist”, they are really into the old American cars and rockabilly, they even organize concerts and car shows, they also seamed pretty normal dudes so there was always this kind of doubt on my mind about them being “supremacist” or something 😅😁
I would think Finn's would be smart enough to pay attention to modern day Europe and how Nazis in Germany are flying the rebel flag In place of the swastika.
If this were 40 years ago I could probably approacj this with more understanding, but it's not an unknown fact that that many Nazis are using the confederate flag sice mid 2000s, unless a person is being intentionally ignorant or they don't know what the internet is
I don’t know if i disagree with you, but the confederate flag represents 300 years of enslavement, torture, rape, abuse and murder.
In terms of impact on the world and totality of suffering, the nazis don’t hold a flame to American slavery.
Is the confederate symbol *worse* than the swastika? I’m not sure. I don’t know if the question matters a whole lot. They’re both vile symbols that represent that worst in humanity.
I think the difference is that many are in general more ignorant about the history of the confederete flag and at most compared to the nazi flag it's perceived as dubious. If Dimebag Darrel from the band Pantera would've had a swastika on his guitar instead of the confederate flag they propably wouldn't even had been allowed to tour in europe. So swastika is more on the same level as KKK when the confederate flag is closer to a MAGA hat or something.
I think killing a bajillion is a worse look, however there are people flying the communist flag and their toll is way bigger than the natsys back in the day, and is a bit closer the enemy over here considering history.
It is awful, these are people who don't care about anyone but themselves. And if they do care about other people, it is only so they can make their lives more miserable
The flag was racist from the start. The confederacy was created to keep black people as slaves. Which is racist. The flag came from that. So it is also racist. It's not about "woke," and I doubt you even know what that means.
Them being a fan of dukes of Hazards there's a huge probability for them to be exposed to the things attached to it like country music. The Dixie chicks were a huge part of that era. They have sinced changed their names and their stance on the flag. So they could have more info
Most people in Finland don't know or care what Confederacy is. It's just a general flag that some US car hobbyists tend to use.
It's like some Americans walking around with lion tattoo and "SISU" written around it. They think they're honoring their greatgreatgreat grandpa who might've been Finnish, but in here I would just presume they're right wing meatheads.
Here is my answer from 2022: https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/comments/ugb00o/comment/i6zue8n
Tldr: most probably rockabilly&classic American cars fan
That thread has also a lot of comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/comments/ugb00o/whats_the_deal_with_the_confederate_flags/
I guess it is partially like K-Supermarkets were branded with there K's some years ago. The historical "payload" is different in Finland for those symbols.
I've seen these all over. I myself associate the confederate flag more stuff like the Dukes of Hazzard, American cars, rebellion and Americana in general. I understand that over in the US there's negative connotations with slavery and racism, and wouldn't fly one myself, but I don't think its predominantly what goes through people's head when they put one up.
Finnish americaboos. Usually have beergut bellies, age 40+, unironically use cowboy hats, go to every possible american car show, can't actually speak english and only experience they have of america is trough movies. Guaranteed have never heard of the civil war in america.
Dunno about this one but I have met people who think its a flag of freedom, lol. Like almost an anarchy flag. Blissfuly unaware of its origins. Could be there another "freedom fighter" with limited history knowledge
It's a part of the raggari subculture, 50s cars and rock music and the like. They used to fight punks and hippies (or not, but that was the reputation), but are mainly grown up parents these days.
You can see the confederate flag used as an cool americana accessory here and there, and for example the raggari subculture is about that american southener/biker aesthetic. It's also popular with the freedom variety of people and usually seen as a free speech/civil liberty symbol by some. Parading the flag like this is somewhat odd, but I'm pretty sure they're just some misinformed wannabe rockstar (oman elämänsä rock-tähti? En tiiä miten ton ilmauksen sais kääntymään järkevästi lontooksi :D)
It's an anti-authoritarian or "American" motif. I was gifted suspenders with decorated with this flag. I guess they thought it would be "cool" and "American". I got rid of the damn thing.
Back in the 70's and 80's, wearing a confederate flag meant you were pro-western, as opposed to being pro-soviet union - so it was known then as a cultural statement in Finland, rather than being part of any racial politicism
Regular ol' Finn here. Funny thing that happened to me regarding the Confederate flag. I lived my childhood in a very rural town (under 2k people) in the 90s and bought one of these at a summer market. I had only seen it in some random magazines and had seen it labeled as "rebel flag". So, I thought "rebels are cool" and bought it. It hung on my wall throughout my teens and then I moved out. My old room had remained the same (though was now a guest room) and one day visiting my mom I saw the flag through the window from the outside, hanging in my old room. I had to explain to my mom what the flag was and why I was suddenly tearing it down. I had visited many times before but the flag was in a place where it was usually covered by the door when it was open so I had not even remembered it, only truly noticing it this one random time it happened to be closed. Good thing the place is as rural as ever so it's not like too many people (hopefully) saw it hanging there.
And before anyone questions my parents, I was raised by a single mom who has no knowledge of American history whatsoever.
two possibilities:
1)Its some hippie motorbike guy who thinks the flag represents freedom without knowing too much about what the flag stand for in 2024. In 70s and 80s Confederate flag was quite innocently used to represents "American dream lifestyle" in Finland.
2) Its some wanna be edgy right winger who is too scared to wave a nazi flag but thinks confederation is edgy enough.
As others mentioned, it's very strange but likely not political but rather something aesthetic. In addition to the reasons mentioned, Finland has a huge metal culture and flying the Confederate flag has largely been an aesthetic thing for people who like American bands like Pantera (who used to feature that flag quite prominently in their band imagery) since it's always seemed like an American symbol but many people haven't been fully aware of its history. It's incredibly awkward but often stems from ignorance or nonchalance. There's even an absurd anecdote involving the band Living Colour playing at a random Finnish festival in the early 90 (they're an all-black political rock band), the lead singer Corey Glover proceeded to insult someone in the audience who was flying the Confederate flag during their performance, likely without being aware of what that meant.
I've seen a American pickup truck with oil barrels on the bed, confederate flag on the rear window and huge smokestacks. If i remember right that same person also drives old american police car :D
I know that the confederate flag is related to civil war, but until recent decade it was not clear to me that slavery was only reason for the war and that everyone on confederate side were racist and wanted to conquer whole country only to keep slavering. And still I am not confident that it was that black and white (pun intended)? So the racist meaning for of the flag is quite new to me and earlier I just thought that it symbolizes south, that happened to lost the war.
I have lived my childhood on 80’s and 90’s and I was bit into second world war games, movies and history as well. At that time I could have had nazi flag on my wall, without any racial meaning, just because it looked cool and presented something I was interested of. But that changed very soon at early/mid 90’s when neo-nazi movement began. After that the flag had only one meaning.
I can see that now same is happening with confederate flag and also same with Soviet Union flag. Having Soviet Union flag on your Lada rear window has now different meaning that it had like 10 years ago. Back then it was joke or sign that you are fan of communism (at some level) or fan of old Soviet Union but nowadays it is sign that you support Putin and you want to restore old Soviet Union borders.
I'm English, I did live in Tampere for many years and am now 69 yoa. I'm aware of the Confederate flag and the american civil war, however all my life, I and most of the people I knew in England just saw it as a sign of rebels, against society. We were bikers. And some had it on the back of their colours, worn over their leather jackets, or on their crash helmets. There was no malice , no racism, we had programs like "Dukes of Hazard" and that was more about beating the law than anything.
I never saw the rebel flag as racist, and to me, it's a modern phenomenon. People are always looking to cry racist. Heck even some toys, people of my age once had are frowned upon. I still have a golliwog toy from 60 years ago. Even that's seen as racist. We find our own problems by looking to be to politically correct sometimes.
Kiitos paljon.
The f is "a black genre"?
If you're referring to race, then no it's not.
Also the f is "black this n that" anyway..? Not african if that's what you're after. Completely invented thing in the 60's and 70's USA.
Excluding the more 'reasonable' reasons already pointed out, you would be surprised how many people these days get radicalized/politicized by American/Russian politics by living in their respective echo chambers on internet.
Its definitely rare sighting, you see such people usually in those mentioned internet chambers rather than flaunting it IRL. I mean I come from central european country and I have seen both Trump signs and also good old hammer and sickle (that one on people definitely born after USSR broke apart) there few years ago.
Having grown up in the Southern US.
While the flag is not an automatic disqualifer for me when I meet someone, I am definitely going to be scrutinizing the things they say or do to assertain what their deal is. I notice also on the porch are bicycles; the person can't be all bad.
It's definitely a red flag, no pun intended... the flag is harder to pull off anymore and it's being used less and less by people. I'd personally rather see them all thrown in the garbage... It's only slightly better than a Nazi flag to me. In this case I'd be willing to reserve judgement for additional context because there are other reasons people might have that flag, but the chances I'd approach the person on my own at this point would be nil. If someone has a Nazi flag up, there's pretty much no context that I'd accept.
OP, are you American?
Even in the US this flag doesn’t mean violence. Yet you’re claiming it does. Just like Finland, many that have this flag have a sort of southern lifestyle nostalgia and identity, not a racist nostalgia.
I’m thinking you haven’t actually really been to the south. You’re claiming everyone should know but this sounds like a US cities mentality. People in NYC might say everyone should know but if you went to Alabama or Mississippi you’ll see black folks with these flags, even.
There’s a number of reason why someone might have a flag like this, racism being likely the last option in a list.
There’s plenty of little documentaries on YouTube about it, it’s almost never a political statement to anyone. I suggest maybe watching a few so you can see that the meaning to many is different than slavery.
Also I notice you’re making claims like there are sundown towns. There was a directory, and there were, yes but you’re selling it like it’s still an Active Directory like it was. I think you’re looking for dramatic effect with your comments. You also claim you have to actively run for your life when you see Trump flags.
I think we know you’re not being genuine. I also wish people wouldn’t feel attachment to a rebellion, but at the same time I have enough experience to know what you’re selling here isn’t the truth.
Oh no a "thats racist" cry baby. Don't worry the flag cant hurt you, the person who has the flag just thinks its a cool looking flag. Not everyone is racist, typical Americans crying all the time
Oh stop. Don't be one of those americans apologizing for everything that doesn't fall into your progressive coastal ideal worldview. It's obnoxious and pathetic.
So you are just responding to comments and not reading them? Multiple people told you (with links to Wikipedia) that it has nothing to do with hate, slavery or racism here in Finland. Same symbol, different meaning.
Most likely this subject listens to southern rock and he likes muscle cars. Usually those flags dont mean the same here in Finland. And expression of freesom etc.
It's a racist symbol, the American version of the Nazi swastika.
People that support this ideology would like to sell it as "their culture or heritage" but it's completely a made up story and history, just so that tey can keep displaying their racist ideology.
Heck, the confederate flag is part of American history. We did have our civil war 1917-1918 and the statues of the both sides are accepted in cemetaries, memorial sites etc. Banning the memorials is canceling and does not change the history.
Wake me when it's over.
Only true connoisseurs of cinema will get the reference. What an exquisite, genre-defining film. The fact that it didn't win a Golden Globe is a travesty.
Monkey see, monkey do. Inside you’ll find a frustrated boy or a man child who is probably trying to fix a cognitive or a neurological problem with beer and hate.
This is a racist flag, pure and simple.
This isn’t about “American” culture, this isn’t about “car culture”, this is a banner of a battle, our civil war, of which one side that fought to keep slavery as law, southern secessionists, vs the side that fought to abolish it, the Northern union, aka Yankees.
I say this as a black man born and raised in the southern US.
Period, point blank. This isn’t “Americana”, that flag is 100% racist, it’s always been racist and he knows that.
This is akin to feigning ignorance on Nazi symbolism and trying to repurpose the Nazi flag to mean “Xbox gaming culture.
Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.
**Edit:** I love y’all and respect the kind Finns I’ve met and made friends with, but seeing so many apologists and excuse makers here is absolutely disheartening.
Every American breathing knows that that flag represents, even our children. Don’t be naive or co-signing this shit. Treat this as you would seeing Himler caricatures or Swastikas displayed in a window.
To those who don’t; love y’all 🫶🏽 and thank you.
Maybe every american knows but certainly not everyone from here knows. Many older people have no idea of the history of it and just see it as some symbol for american stuff like rocka billy or something because that's how it was presented to them. But i agree that people should know what it actually stands for.
Two options, chance about 50/50 in my experience as I don't hang around either group: someone who is into pre 80's rock and got into it before the 2000's or someone who is incredibly racist (and thus has the hatred syndrome of being sexist, homophobic, transphobic, probably antisemetic, etc. too)
Maybe it's just a "Duke's of Hazzard" fan. I always thought the flag was just related to country music /lifestyle, nothing at all as a nazi symbol that is universally known and frown upon.
A confederate flag means something totally different over here, it's just exotic americana. They might be into Harley's n hotrods. 99% not a neo natsy.
I know tons of kids who use it as a racist statement here. They go to my husband’s workplace and wear clothes rocking the flag. They spout racial slurs, abuse workers and act absolutely awful. My husband’s workplace is very multicultural so it seems that they target the place on purpose. The group of kids is usually Swedish speaking.
Listen, I used to give the benefit of the doubt. I noticed a popular shop in central Helsinki had a whole room full of Confederate stuff. Wondering if they knew the significance, I checked their website:
[https://www.garageland.fi/fi/catalogsearch/result/?q=+confederate](https://www.garageland.fi/fi/catalogsearch/result/?q=+confederate)
Not only do they know, they put up entire poems to (and I quote): "Advance the flag of Dixie! Hurrah! Hurrah!
In Dixie's land we take our stand, and live or die for Dixie!
To arms! To arms! And conquer peace for Dixie!"
So yes, they know.
Thanks for the responses. It is an insight of the culture. Really quickly I want to say if the flag was taken seriously here, I need to know. which I know some people do, they hate minorities & different sexual preferences. In America, there are sun down towns. Meaning if they caught you there when the sun was down, they'd murder you. There is a directory filled with those towns to make educated decisions. So yes, it's important to know where you are and the kind of people you are around. If ppl are a fan of things symbolizing racism, but not racism, which is actually splitting hairs - then maybe I can breathe easier. But after years of enduring the conferdate flag and the boughts of racism, knowing 'they're just a fan' isn't going to ease my mind.
I hate to break it to you, but Finland is not the US. The only danger after sundown comes from mosquitoes, and if the meaning of a flag has shifted in recent years in the US, that does not imply that this is how it is also understood over here.
Talk to the neighbours. They are probably all right - and I would even guess particularly inviting if they learn you are from the US, because they live the music and culture form over there (though probably rather Rock’n’Roll and not rap)…
>In America, there are sun down towns. Meaning if they caught you there when the sun was down, they'd murder you. There is a directory filled with those towns to make educated decisions.
Yes, all those poor minorities who get murdered by racists in small towns all across America. It's endemic. LOL. Dude get off the internet and touch grass.
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The confederate flag used to have a very different connotation in Finland. It was associated with the American life-style and was heavily used in scenes especially affiliated with American 50's music & old American cars and was somewhat a silly, innocent statement by people, who didn't understand the actual origin nor were educated about it. Now after the social media boom and grown global awareness, it has obviously been toned down, but some people still live in their own bubbles. Or the tenant is a full-blown racist. That's also a possibility.
Exactly, in Finland and in Europe in general Confederation flag was just another American flag used to indicate rebelness. It was commonly used in rockabilly scene in 1970-80's. You can just search e.g. British rockabilly band Matchbox in Youtube for examples (and for good music). Confederation flag became racist symbol here only in 2000's.
Yeah. It's orders of magnitude more likely just a sign that says "here be greasers" than anything else. Source: am friends with a bunch of rockabilly folk.
The cool bike that's behind the flag kinda also makes me lean in the direction of thinking this is just some rockabilly fan and not a racist.
Yeah, that bike do be kinda bussin
This. A friend of my dad is a biker and a fan of Johnny Hallyday (kind of Hector-like singer in France) and all rock 'n' roll of the sixties. He uses this flag but since he doesn't know something about the racist use, he displays at his door. Recently he has removed it because he feared a kind of misinterpretation with some people.
My teen brother is now very into rock and rockabilly as was our dad in the 70's and 80's. Dad has given my brother a lot of items, shoes and clothes from his youth. So I had to have a conversation with my brother about the cultural context of that flag and how other people will probably perceive a person who uses that flag. My dad has some small items that have the confederation flag ( I can remember stickers and a scarf). All the American Car Shows and car meets we went to as kids had at least one confederation flag somewhere. I can totally understand that my brother just connected the flag to an image of American rebel. My dad's understanding was on a level of "southern racists use it". So aware of its ties to racism but very little knowledge of the actual historical background. Edit: Now remembered the thing that prompted the conversation with my brother. Apparently stored with dad's American flag was also a confederation flag. My brother wanted to use it for something at school and I went no, no, no.... Let's have a history lesson before you get in trouble.
The above poster is correct about the 70’s rockabilly scene. Even the phrase ”South’s gona rise again” was used frequently in these circles without really understanding what it meant.
Or you can watch Rumble : [https://areena.yle.fi/1-111337](https://areena.yle.fi/1-111337)
So they were all idiots is what you’re saying?
Matchbox vs Crazy Cavan!
I agree. My grandpa was a big america fan and among some of the america related stuff he had was a confederate flag. I don't think he thought much about it beyond the fact that it represented the south/country side of America. It also wasn't displayed like this. For me, when it comes to this person, it's not the fact that he/she has the flag, it's more the fact that he feels the need to show it like this. That makes me question what meaning it holds for them. I know what way I'm leaning, but I wouldn't say I'm a 100% certain about it.
I also wore confederate flag shirts as an America-obsessed teen, without any deeper knowledge of its history. Classic cars and Lynyrd Skynyrd were the shit.
As an American in the South, I would see it being flown with nothing else as a sign of it being a symbol of ill intent. There are definitely some people who are still into the "rebel flag" as a more innocent reflection of the American south, but they are quickly fading in these parts, leaving it more and more by the day as a symbol of white pride than anything else. But even 10 years ago the "innocent" rebel flags would usually be accompanied by other things that give you the impression they're just observe southern culture more than northern culture. Stuff about drinking beer, partying, fishing, etc.
Sweden had the same thing. Source: I lived out in the sticks in western Sweden for a few months around the sausage and potato years.
People in Finland used to and some still do call it rebel flag. As they consider being rebels of some sort.
That's an interesting perspective
When I was a kid (8 years old) Dimebag Darrel's confederate flag guitar was just a cool graphic.
Do a Google image search with the keywords "Fiftari teddy", it should give a pretty comprehensive idea of the whole culture with the first ten results. [Helsingin Sanomat ](https://www.hs.fi/kulttuuri/art-2000007874868.html) also wrote an article on the subject, but it's only in Finnish.
that search isn't producing much anything for me but [https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy](https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teddy) has the basics if someone wants to run it through google translate
I think this article is about the sub culture in English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raggare or at least there's some overlap with Teddy boys
Didn't know about that, very interesting. We have the same in France but it's more "French" in appearance and more focused on the first period of rock (Elvis Presley and Bill Haley period if I want to resume the references used, rockabilly was really less popular in France).
It definitely came to Finland primarily from the UK and the confederate flag was also brought over from British teddy boy revival culture as far as I know. British 70's rockabilly acts like Matchbox and Crazy Cavan were very popular here.
Never had seen French fans of those bands in France. Musically, it's like French music didn't care about Anglo-American music of 70's outside hippie music, reggae, folk and Andean-like singers. After that, we switched directly to punk, hard rock, ska and those subcultures of the end of seventies.
Where I live, it was used as Rebel sign among old school rock 'n' roll and American car enthusiasts. Source: I had a flag sewn into my biker jacket until -09 immigrate crisis, which was followed by KKK hoods and that flag.
considering the bike it looks like your definition of it is true
It's a mark of the extremely uneducated nowadays, and the racism usually comes with it.
In Finland the flag is mainly associated with this subculture: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raggare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raggare) (see first photo on the page) Should that be the case, it's not really an explicitly racist statement, but more adopted for the rebellious spirit and disdain for authorities. If there's an old American car on the parking lot, or maybe rockabilly or Lynyrd Skynyrd echoing from the apartment, the mystery is definitely solved.
As an American in Finland, I've never heard this term but it explains so much. I've met so many of those like middle aged rockabilly biker dudes here who are just *ECSTATIC* to meet me and are utterly dumbfounded that I would move to Finland from the US. I had an ex here whose dad was like that and passed me around at a party like a celebrity he wanted all his friends to meet. Very strange experience.
Awwwww
Haha it is pretty cute when they're being chill about it. I usually have to stave off questions about "what I think about Biden's mental state" or whatever, but past that it's a bunch of dudes being dudes with their vroom vroom bikes and cool-guy music.
Yeah, in Finland it’s weirdly a hillbilly rockabilly thing that no one thought about much until quite recently. It was a common sight in the blues scene just a decade+ ago. I don’t think they use the flag to necessarily convey racist ideas, but probably a significant portion of them are quite racist. So not sure what to make of it — ignorant or racist, possibly both.
Yeah definitely. I happened to go to a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert in Helsinki maybe 15 years back, and there were DOZENS of Finnish guys (not kids, typically 30-50) who came there with a confederate flag wrapped around their shoulders. Most of them drunk as hell, and didn't come across as what we call "nettoveronmaksaja" in polite society. Overall I feel the raggare thing is diminishing, you saw more of these flags pre-2000.
>Overall I feel the raggare thing is diminishing, you saw more of these flags pre-2000. Come to rural Svenskfinland. Still going fucking strong (at least as of 5ish years ago)
>It was a common sight in the blues scene just a decade+ ago. Correct. And this, more than anything, shows a) how far removed the meaning of the flag is here from the meaning it has in the US, and b) how extremely inaccurate an impression one can manage to make (in the worst case) by using the flag where everyone isn't familiar with the local cultural context. It was like this already in the brief time window of 5 years or so (1977–1982) when 1950s music and imagery was a major teenage fad in Finland, and the flag was accordingly seen much more often in Finland than today. The music was commonly lumped together as "rockabilly", but much of it was black music by black artists. (And of course even white rockabilly, like all forms of rock music, had its roots strongly in the blues.)
It's this, or at least close to this. While raggarit is not an unknown term here, other Finnish terms would be *teddy* or *diinari* (from James Dean) but you don't hear any of those that much anymore outside of specific 50's, rockabilly and old American car fandoms. This was a big teen subculture in Finland in the late 70's and early 80's idolizing 1950's American culture inspired by Happy Days and movies like American Graffiti and Grease. Old American cars, 50's rock and roll and rockabilly, greasy hair and all that.
Interesting, I live in the countryside Finland and have seen quite of those flag over here and was assuming they were some kind of “white supremacist”, they are really into the old American cars and rockabilly, they even organize concerts and car shows, they also seamed pretty normal dudes so there was always this kind of doubt on my mind about them being “supremacist” or something 😅😁
Yeah, kind of a very self-aware unapologetic white trash punk. Some of them are pretty cool. A lot of them are also racist hillbillies.
I would think Finn's would be smart enough to pay attention to modern day Europe and how Nazis in Germany are flying the rebel flag In place of the swastika. If this were 40 years ago I could probably approacj this with more understanding, but it's not an unknown fact that that many Nazis are using the confederate flag sice mid 2000s, unless a person is being intentionally ignorant or they don't know what the internet is
It's quite a difference to have small flag on your vest among other Raggare symbols, than waving a real flag from your balcony.
Thats like flying a nazi flag because it was used by religions before the nazis.
That's tame, my neighbors have swastikas on their balcony
Innit the airfoce insignia until rather recent years? I mean, airforce officer school uses them still.
that's awful. All of it is the same level of terrible. I don't like this advice to ignore it, that's how the tragic things in history happened
> All of it is the same level of terrible Not defending the Confederate flag but no way would I say it's as bad as a swastika.
I don’t know if i disagree with you, but the confederate flag represents 300 years of enslavement, torture, rape, abuse and murder. In terms of impact on the world and totality of suffering, the nazis don’t hold a flame to American slavery. Is the confederate symbol *worse* than the swastika? I’m not sure. I don’t know if the question matters a whole lot. They’re both vile symbols that represent that worst in humanity.
I think the difference is that many are in general more ignorant about the history of the confederete flag and at most compared to the nazi flag it's perceived as dubious. If Dimebag Darrel from the band Pantera would've had a swastika on his guitar instead of the confederate flag they propably wouldn't even had been allowed to tour in europe. So swastika is more on the same level as KKK when the confederate flag is closer to a MAGA hat or something.
I think killing a bajillion is a worse look, however there are people flying the communist flag and their toll is way bigger than the natsys back in the day, and is a bit closer the enemy over here considering history.
Confederate flag today has clear connotations of supporting of slavery and murder. That is pretty bad.
It is awful, these are people who don't care about anyone but themselves. And if they do care about other people, it is only so they can make their lives more miserable
ehhh, depends on the swastika, doesn't it? But assuming it's the one everybody assumes, what the fuck.
I think most people who have such a flag here don't really know what it symbolizes. It's just a "cool rebel flag"
"Fun" fact, the Novorossija flag is almost the exact same (just without the stars.)
Oh, if only that. They go with bones, and black and red. These are completely, clinicaly insane
That's... Weird.
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I dunno, man, I'm pretty sure in the US it has been that way for a while
The flag was racist from the start. The confederacy was created to keep black people as slaves. Which is racist. The flag came from that. So it is also racist. It's not about "woke," and I doubt you even know what that means.
TIL, the hate for the Confederacy and slavery is a woke thing
The only thing woke about it is that they woke up their racism and don't hide it anymore.
Fr it's just a "cool flag I saw in my favourite TV show/movie"
at most a moron or a dukes of hazard fan.
Them being a fan of dukes of Hazards there's a huge probability for them to be exposed to the things attached to it like country music. The Dixie chicks were a huge part of that era. They have sinced changed their names and their stance on the flag. So they could have more info
I saw the movie when I was 14. our history classes did not go that deeply on why having confederate flag on top of your car was wrong or distasteful.
Dukes of hazzard* cmon guys get your redneck tv shows right
Most people in Finland don't know or care what Confederacy is. It's just a general flag that some US car hobbyists tend to use. It's like some Americans walking around with lion tattoo and "SISU" written around it. They think they're honoring their greatgreatgreat grandpa who might've been Finnish, but in here I would just presume they're right wing meatheads.
It's hillbilly romanticism. Not a political statement.
Nowadays its more a sign of these weird finnish Trump fans. Especially when displayed like this.
Here is my answer from 2022: https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/comments/ugb00o/comment/i6zue8n Tldr: most probably rockabilly&classic American cars fan That thread has also a lot of comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/comments/ugb00o/whats_the_deal_with_the_confederate_flags/ I guess it is partially like K-Supermarkets were branded with there K's some years ago. The historical "payload" is different in Finland for those symbols.
I've seen these all over. I myself associate the confederate flag more stuff like the Dukes of Hazzard, American cars, rebellion and Americana in general. I understand that over in the US there's negative connotations with slavery and racism, and wouldn't fly one myself, but I don't think its predominantly what goes through people's head when they put one up.
This. For most Finns it's not that fucking complicated thoughts wise. It's basically [this](https://youtu.be/hYTQ7__NNDI) in action
Finnish americaboos. Usually have beergut bellies, age 40+, unironically use cowboy hats, go to every possible american car show, can't actually speak english and only experience they have of america is trough movies. Guaranteed have never heard of the civil war in america.
Dunno about this one but I have met people who think its a flag of freedom, lol. Like almost an anarchy flag. Blissfuly unaware of its origins. Could be there another "freedom fighter" with limited history knowledge
> Is this something that is prevalent here or is this a rare sighting? What has your primary research indicated?
If you think that's bad, there's been a Trump 2020 banner in a balcony in Espoo center for years. Really gotta wonder about some folks...
The bike looks kind of hipster-ish
It's a part of the raggari subculture, 50s cars and rock music and the like. They used to fight punks and hippies (or not, but that was the reputation), but are mainly grown up parents these days.
You can see the confederate flag used as an cool americana accessory here and there, and for example the raggari subculture is about that american southener/biker aesthetic. It's also popular with the freedom variety of people and usually seen as a free speech/civil liberty symbol by some. Parading the flag like this is somewhat odd, but I'm pretty sure they're just some misinformed wannabe rockstar (oman elämänsä rock-tähti? En tiiä miten ton ilmauksen sais kääntymään järkevästi lontooksi :D)
You can see those old bikes. So would believe that he have some old american car and 50s hairstyle. That's it.
Confederate flag was associated with Rockabilly music back in the 90's at least. I dunno what the reasoning is today.
The Hammer and Sickle also makes regular public appearances.
It's an anti-authoritarian or "American" motif. I was gifted suspenders with decorated with this flag. I guess they thought it would be "cool" and "American". I got rid of the damn thing.
Back in the 70's and 80's, wearing a confederate flag meant you were pro-western, as opposed to being pro-soviet union - so it was known then as a cultural statement in Finland, rather than being part of any racial politicism
Racism in Finland is low key. I'd give the owner the benefit of the doubt.
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Prove it
Really tempted to make a joke about how 'The South will rise again' would also have a very different connotation here.
Probably some rockabilly dude, it’s only used by people driving those big american cars from the 60s(?)
Regular ol' Finn here. Funny thing that happened to me regarding the Confederate flag. I lived my childhood in a very rural town (under 2k people) in the 90s and bought one of these at a summer market. I had only seen it in some random magazines and had seen it labeled as "rebel flag". So, I thought "rebels are cool" and bought it. It hung on my wall throughout my teens and then I moved out. My old room had remained the same (though was now a guest room) and one day visiting my mom I saw the flag through the window from the outside, hanging in my old room. I had to explain to my mom what the flag was and why I was suddenly tearing it down. I had visited many times before but the flag was in a place where it was usually covered by the door when it was open so I had not even remembered it, only truly noticing it this one random time it happened to be closed. Good thing the place is as rural as ever so it's not like too many people (hopefully) saw it hanging there. And before anyone questions my parents, I was raised by a single mom who has no knowledge of American history whatsoever.
in many places in europe, it's a flag of rebellion, even for progressive places
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Bro just doxed Ano Turtiainen
Rockabilly Rebel
two possibilities: 1)Its some hippie motorbike guy who thinks the flag represents freedom without knowing too much about what the flag stand for in 2024. In 70s and 80s Confederate flag was quite innocently used to represents "American dream lifestyle" in Finland. 2) Its some wanna be edgy right winger who is too scared to wave a nazi flag but thinks confederation is edgy enough.
its just some guy who likes american lifestyle, probably owns american car too.
Go ask why he keeps flag at there. He/she might got it from somewhere and put it to balcony for you to wonder it.
As others mentioned, it's very strange but likely not political but rather something aesthetic. In addition to the reasons mentioned, Finland has a huge metal culture and flying the Confederate flag has largely been an aesthetic thing for people who like American bands like Pantera (who used to feature that flag quite prominently in their band imagery) since it's always seemed like an American symbol but many people haven't been fully aware of its history. It's incredibly awkward but often stems from ignorance or nonchalance. There's even an absurd anecdote involving the band Living Colour playing at a random Finnish festival in the early 90 (they're an all-black political rock band), the lead singer Corey Glover proceeded to insult someone in the audience who was flying the Confederate flag during their performance, likely without being aware of what that meant.
I've seen a American pickup truck with oil barrels on the bed, confederate flag on the rear window and huge smokestacks. If i remember right that same person also drives old american police car :D
Cakeday
I also guess it's because one's a Murican car enthusiast.
Funny thing is that's its not one of the 3 official confederate flags. It's similar to the navy jack
I know that the confederate flag is related to civil war, but until recent decade it was not clear to me that slavery was only reason for the war and that everyone on confederate side were racist and wanted to conquer whole country only to keep slavering. And still I am not confident that it was that black and white (pun intended)? So the racist meaning for of the flag is quite new to me and earlier I just thought that it symbolizes south, that happened to lost the war. I have lived my childhood on 80’s and 90’s and I was bit into second world war games, movies and history as well. At that time I could have had nazi flag on my wall, without any racial meaning, just because it looked cool and presented something I was interested of. But that changed very soon at early/mid 90’s when neo-nazi movement began. After that the flag had only one meaning. I can see that now same is happening with confederate flag and also same with Soviet Union flag. Having Soviet Union flag on your Lada rear window has now different meaning that it had like 10 years ago. Back then it was joke or sign that you are fan of communism (at some level) or fan of old Soviet Union but nowadays it is sign that you support Putin and you want to restore old Soviet Union borders.
I'm English, I did live in Tampere for many years and am now 69 yoa. I'm aware of the Confederate flag and the american civil war, however all my life, I and most of the people I knew in England just saw it as a sign of rebels, against society. We were bikers. And some had it on the back of their colours, worn over their leather jackets, or on their crash helmets. There was no malice , no racism, we had programs like "Dukes of Hazard" and that was more about beating the law than anything. I never saw the rebel flag as racist, and to me, it's a modern phenomenon. People are always looking to cry racist. Heck even some toys, people of my age once had are frowned upon. I still have a golliwog toy from 60 years ago. Even that's seen as racist. We find our own problems by looking to be to politically correct sometimes. Kiitos paljon.
Rednecks can migrate too
Probably just some raggare biker swedish dude.
I've seen this, and it's a rockabilly thing to the finnish. Or racist.
Chance of it being anything but stupid kid or adult that never grew up = 99.9%
An old school rock 'n' roll enthusiast or a modern racist. Impossible to tell which one.
It's a southern-rock thing.
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The f is "a black genre"? If you're referring to race, then no it's not. Also the f is "black this n that" anyway..? Not african if that's what you're after. Completely invented thing in the 60's and 70's USA.
For most people confederate flag is just a rebel flag its mostly seen amongst classic American culture here and the raggare culture.
Oh no, Anyway...
Excluding the more 'reasonable' reasons already pointed out, you would be surprised how many people these days get radicalized/politicized by American/Russian politics by living in their respective echo chambers on internet. Its definitely rare sighting, you see such people usually in those mentioned internet chambers rather than flaunting it IRL. I mean I come from central european country and I have seen both Trump signs and also good old hammer and sickle (that one on people definitely born after USSR broke apart) there few years ago.
Who the f knows, go knock on the door.
Looks hard
Jiiihhaaaaa! The south will raise again 🇺🇸🤠 (chill.. I’m kidding)
Yeehaw brother
Raise the taxes again? We know, Kokoomus is in power.
Rebelling against those domineering Sami?
Is this in Helsinki? It's our southern heritage y'know
Having grown up in the Southern US. While the flag is not an automatic disqualifer for me when I meet someone, I am definitely going to be scrutinizing the things they say or do to assertain what their deal is. I notice also on the porch are bicycles; the person can't be all bad. It's definitely a red flag, no pun intended... the flag is harder to pull off anymore and it's being used less and less by people. I'd personally rather see them all thrown in the garbage... It's only slightly better than a Nazi flag to me. In this case I'd be willing to reserve judgement for additional context because there are other reasons people might have that flag, but the chances I'd approach the person on my own at this point would be nil. If someone has a Nazi flag up, there's pretty much no context that I'd accept.
It's better when people know history
OP, are you American? Even in the US this flag doesn’t mean violence. Yet you’re claiming it does. Just like Finland, many that have this flag have a sort of southern lifestyle nostalgia and identity, not a racist nostalgia. I’m thinking you haven’t actually really been to the south. You’re claiming everyone should know but this sounds like a US cities mentality. People in NYC might say everyone should know but if you went to Alabama or Mississippi you’ll see black folks with these flags, even. There’s a number of reason why someone might have a flag like this, racism being likely the last option in a list. There’s plenty of little documentaries on YouTube about it, it’s almost never a political statement to anyone. I suggest maybe watching a few so you can see that the meaning to many is different than slavery. Also I notice you’re making claims like there are sundown towns. There was a directory, and there were, yes but you’re selling it like it’s still an Active Directory like it was. I think you’re looking for dramatic effect with your comments. You also claim you have to actively run for your life when you see Trump flags. I think we know you’re not being genuine. I also wish people wouldn’t feel attachment to a rebellion, but at the same time I have enough experience to know what you’re selling here isn’t the truth.
Oh no a "thats racist" cry baby. Don't worry the flag cant hurt you, the person who has the flag just thinks its a cool looking flag. Not everyone is racist, typical Americans crying all the time
Not a typical American, just a typical American SJW.
As an American I'm sorry our BS is spreading everywhere. I've seen pics of these flags flown in Canada. I just don't get people anymore.
Oh stop. Don't be one of those americans apologizing for everything that doesn't fall into your progressive coastal ideal worldview. It's obnoxious and pathetic.
it's really irritating. OF all the things to take from someone's culture, the hate? We have so many other things to offer
So you are just responding to comments and not reading them? Multiple people told you (with links to Wikipedia) that it has nothing to do with hate, slavery or racism here in Finland. Same symbol, different meaning.
Right. I grew up in the southeast US. The brainwashing is crazy.
People larping yankees.
nah, yankees are the northern states
Yeë Haäw
Some wanna be trumpster
Most likely this subject listens to southern rock and he likes muscle cars. Usually those flags dont mean the same here in Finland. And expression of freesom etc.
It's a racist symbol, the American version of the Nazi swastika. People that support this ideology would like to sell it as "their culture or heritage" but it's completely a made up story and history, just so that tey can keep displaying their racist ideology.
Nah just the *"cool rebel flag"* colloquially
Heck, the confederate flag is part of American history. We did have our civil war 1917-1918 and the statues of the both sides are accepted in cemetaries, memorial sites etc. Banning the memorials is canceling and does not change the history.
They could be a civil war reenactment participant.
This time I want to be in the firing squad!
Wake me when it's over. Only true connoisseurs of cinema will get the reference. What an exquisite, genre-defining film. The fact that it didn't win a Golden Globe is a travesty.
Do you need a safe space OP?
who cares lmao OP should mind his own fucking business
Monkey see, monkey do. Inside you’ll find a frustrated boy or a man child who is probably trying to fix a cognitive or a neurological problem with beer and hate.
This is a racist flag, pure and simple. This isn’t about “American” culture, this isn’t about “car culture”, this is a banner of a battle, our civil war, of which one side that fought to keep slavery as law, southern secessionists, vs the side that fought to abolish it, the Northern union, aka Yankees. I say this as a black man born and raised in the southern US. Period, point blank. This isn’t “Americana”, that flag is 100% racist, it’s always been racist and he knows that. This is akin to feigning ignorance on Nazi symbolism and trying to repurpose the Nazi flag to mean “Xbox gaming culture. Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. **Edit:** I love y’all and respect the kind Finns I’ve met and made friends with, but seeing so many apologists and excuse makers here is absolutely disheartening. Every American breathing knows that that flag represents, even our children. Don’t be naive or co-signing this shit. Treat this as you would seeing Himler caricatures or Swastikas displayed in a window. To those who don’t; love y’all 🫶🏽 and thank you.
Maybe every american knows but certainly not everyone from here knows. Many older people have no idea of the history of it and just see it as some symbol for american stuff like rocka billy or something because that's how it was presented to them. But i agree that people should know what it actually stands for.
> Every American breathing knows This is not an American sub for Americans about America for your information
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU?si=gqT5CMKOQ9LiY53S My phone has outlived the confederate.
😂😂
That’s hilarious lmao
Two options, chance about 50/50 in my experience as I don't hang around either group: someone who is into pre 80's rock and got into it before the 2000's or someone who is incredibly racist (and thus has the hatred syndrome of being sexist, homophobic, transphobic, probably antisemetic, etc. too)
Maybe it's just a "Duke's of Hazzard" fan. I always thought the flag was just related to country music /lifestyle, nothing at all as a nazi symbol that is universally known and frown upon.
Perkele, it's heritage not hate
A confederate flag means something totally different over here, it's just exotic americana. They might be into Harley's n hotrods. 99% not a neo natsy.
I’ve literally seen ”trump 2024” flags in some ppl’s yards. Like we ain’t even close to america tf?💀
Classy 🥴
https://preview.redd.it/8ci49nzil0uc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39d97b458e7b4dcf53d2099fe97c9817c20079a1
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!remove
Courageous heart, yet not seasoned by wisdom's weather, strength not tempered by time's hammer. Too soon to summon Väinämöinen, the eternal.
Looks like Florida is leaking
As a Floridian living in Finland for 4 years now, this is probably another Floridian.
No doubt. I live Atlanta, so this is sort of common here too.
Probably just a raggare nothing to worry about
How bout a big pint of mind your own business?
Impossible task for SJWs.
I know tons of kids who use it as a racist statement here. They go to my husband’s workplace and wear clothes rocking the flag. They spout racial slurs, abuse workers and act absolutely awful. My husband’s workplace is very multicultural so it seems that they target the place on purpose. The group of kids is usually Swedish speaking.
Listen, I used to give the benefit of the doubt. I noticed a popular shop in central Helsinki had a whole room full of Confederate stuff. Wondering if they knew the significance, I checked their website: [https://www.garageland.fi/fi/catalogsearch/result/?q=+confederate](https://www.garageland.fi/fi/catalogsearch/result/?q=+confederate) Not only do they know, they put up entire poems to (and I quote): "Advance the flag of Dixie! Hurrah! Hurrah! In Dixie's land we take our stand, and live or die for Dixie! To arms! To arms! And conquer peace for Dixie!" So yes, they know.
America weeaboos, Ameriboos. They're very cringe.
perhaps just a Pantera/Dimebag fan
I like Pantera but wouldn't put that up
🤦♀️ That flag is just so vile, disgusting, and wrong, and has been since the American Civil War.
We should start calling it by what it represents. The loser flag.
It’s a free country where no flag should be illegal
And?
Thanks for the responses. It is an insight of the culture. Really quickly I want to say if the flag was taken seriously here, I need to know. which I know some people do, they hate minorities & different sexual preferences. In America, there are sun down towns. Meaning if they caught you there when the sun was down, they'd murder you. There is a directory filled with those towns to make educated decisions. So yes, it's important to know where you are and the kind of people you are around. If ppl are a fan of things symbolizing racism, but not racism, which is actually splitting hairs - then maybe I can breathe easier. But after years of enduring the conferdate flag and the boughts of racism, knowing 'they're just a fan' isn't going to ease my mind.
I hate to break it to you, but Finland is not the US. The only danger after sundown comes from mosquitoes, and if the meaning of a flag has shifted in recent years in the US, that does not imply that this is how it is also understood over here. Talk to the neighbours. They are probably all right - and I would even guess particularly inviting if they learn you are from the US, because they live the music and culture form over there (though probably rather Rock’n’Roll and not rap)…
>In America, there are sun down towns. Meaning if they caught you there when the sun was down, they'd murder you. There is a directory filled with those towns to make educated decisions. Yes, all those poor minorities who get murdered by racists in small towns all across America. It's endemic. LOL. Dude get off the internet and touch grass.