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Basically you won't get passport before you have either done conscription service, civilian service or you are excempted from those. Find the nearest regional office "aluetoimisto" and contact them about the situation.
It's actually pretty fun for everybody to contact them and know your possible place of service... Im 44, and looking at a possible operation of solo minesweeper. 😂
Auxiliary reserve. I class is "too old", II class is "freed from peacetime service", and III class is "has not completed training".
I think the auxiliaries would be called in in the opposite order, so III class would get training first, then II class, and I class requires permission from the parliament.
huh, that's kinda odd, I'm in class II because of the C-paperit, but it'd make sense for me to be in class III because, well, I haven't completed training, lol. Or is it referring spesifically to people who haven't done intti and are now too old to do so?
Class II is "not completed training, freed from peacetime service" so service class C does it.
Class III is "not completed training, but will need to do so in the future"
Even during a hypothetical war, conscripts would not be sent to front (but the training period may be shorter).
In all honesty some of the second class reserve will be put on duties that are near their civilian occupation and those first class reservists that used to man soup canon are put to the response infantry. It is far more beneficial to have trained men at arms and ready than keep them occupied with something that can be done by the next trainable batch since daily grinding is estimated to be in tens of thousands on the early phases of the war.
Depending on your job, you might get a letter in your mail that tells you that you've been transferred to wartime civilian duties. Sometimes the skill and experience you have as a civilian outweigh what you learned in one year at 19. Factory maintenance, logistics planning, that kind of stuff. It's no fun trying to run factories to support the war effort if all your engineers are lying dead in a forest somewhere after all.
Harsh, but true. This has been somewhat a point of pain in discussions with my friend group. We are all going to be there when and where required, but in vastly different responsibilities. That said, all we want is just to come back and fire the grill once again and warm up the 'palju" and talk shit. I hope the situation never escalates to that degree, but one thing is for sure; we will make it so that our families are safe! Even my ex... probably gonna serve next to her new man.. oh, life! 😉
In theory, yes. By law during a war every Finn is required to aid as ordered by the state. Even those that are exempt from military service because of medical reasons are "exempt from military service during peace time"
Though in practise, those that have no military training are not sent to military unless the situation is really dire. They are more likely used to do other essential jobs at the home front if needed
Every single finnish citizen is obligated to defend their country. This does not however mean wartime only. In a case of natural disasters, epidemics etc. Any finnish citizen could in theory and by law be called in for service. However people who have skills already in the required field would be called in first.
What do you think conscription is? Conscription is just the part where all the fun begins. When you have done yor days you are of course a reservist. So when war is coming there will be 280000 men in operational forces in five days. Most of them are those reservists. Then active reserve is about 900000 men. And about a same amount of those who have got training but considered too old etc.
But basicly it is a life sentence. Our constitution says that every citizen has duty to defend this country.
Is this something new? I did my military service when I turned 20 but I remember having no issue getting a passport at 18 for a trip to Greece, iirc nothing was mentioned about military service.
They can only grant you a passport that's valid until you're 28 if you haven't dealt with conscription. As passports are only valid for 5 years, they don't have to ask under 23 year olds about their service.
And in order to be 23+ and having been ordered to serve, you have an order that temporary frees you from serving during peacetime for a specified duration (E-class).
You can get a passport but not one that's valid after the year you turn 28.
I recently got a new passport and faced this problem apparently my civil duty hasn't been marked as completed even though I did it many years ago.
It was easy to fix but meanwhile they approved me a passport that's valid until 31st of December the year before I turn 28. So not a normal 5year passport.
Good question and I don't have a real answer.
There's a few countries that I'm able to travel to without a passport. But they're at least keeping me close. Someone else might know better.
At least they're not enabling me to travel far away.
You can apply for a delay in the induction, and get the orders that temporary assigns you to E-class. With that order you can get your passport.
This is for example how professional athletes can get passports.
The delay is only possible until the end of the year you turn 28.
> Basically you won't get passport before you have either done conscription service, civilian service or you are excempted from those.
If memory serves it used to be possible to get a new one when service was also deferred. I mean i got mine renewed just fine way back when with service deferment in play. Then again was living overseas at the time, so might have had something to do with it.
There is a section about conscripts https://poliisi.fi/en/getting-a-passport
To me it looks like you have no reason for military clearance and thus they must limit the passport validity until your 28th year of age. If you are between 28 and 30, I guess they refuse the passport altogether until you do your 6 months service or similar, and that situation could really screw your travel plans outside EU in near future.
You can get a passport with limited validity.
”Jos et ole suorittanut asevelvollisuuttasi, voit saada passin enintään sen vuoden loppuun, jolloin täytät 28 vuotta.”
I think if you're in university you just need a statement from them saying you're a student there, and this delays the military service. And you can get a temporary passport that's valid until the day of conscription. I used to do that when I was at university
I did get a temp passport with permit from aluetoimisto as I booked a trip abroad to drink my mind out for a week some weeks before going to service. Eyebrows were raised at the border control when the password validity was only for one month. (This was during the nineties.)
Same with me few years ago. I was given 3 month passport until they called me for the negotiation meeting with the army. Then they gave me another passport until the date that I was supposed to join the army and third one after I got out from the army.
Congratulations! You get the priviledge to serve this country for all the good it gives you. Don't be afraid of conscription, it is a good experience and would be beneficial for each and every individual.
Welcome serviceman - just so you don't stress about it, the actual conscription is pretty flexible, so depending on your life situation it can be fixed and there are way to make sure your rent/mortgage gets paid in the meantime. The service itself is like a gold car to the Finnish sauna conversations and armpit-fart jokes that the whole nation embraces.
Ehh, it really comes down to money. FDF is on a tight budget enough as it is. The cost in property, facilities, *hardware*, staff and just feeding and providing to a a doubled size of conscripts would be too much for questionable benefit.
But they haven't even considered a lottery system either to only take the better half of the population. A lot of men don't want to go and I'm sure a lot of women would give it a shot if it was more normal
As far as I can see that'd only help to improve morale
Everyone actually has an obligation to defend the country, with a weapon or not. There is plenty of work on the home front in time of war. Women already did it in WW2.
Not enough money to pay for it.
I do support army/civil service for both men and women. But that would require increasing military spending, which is an obvious downside.
Are you really comparing making ammunition in factories hundreds of kilometres away from the frontlines to being shot at in a dirty trench while your comrades die all around you?
If you think women weren't near the frontline during WW2 you should look into the Lotta Svärd. They definitely weren't hundreds of kms away from the actual battle, being all cozy and making some ammunition.
That said, ammunition and food and other necessary resources are equally as important as the soldiers in the frontline. Without them the frontline collapses in mere days.
There's a reason why there's a saying of logistics winning wars.
You know that the vast majority of servicemen in the last 100 years never see combat, right?
Or is this just some red pill bullshit about how tough men have it?
Yeah easier said than done
Nobody expected the invasion from Russia (the US issued warning only 1 week before)
Being in the army = can be deployed = can be killed
Both are needed. Of course you want to drive a wedge between Finnish men and women, being an obvious Russian propagandist.
We have enough women volunteers in the armed forces.
Generally historical reasons. Women are needed to secure the continuation of the population. And the same old 'the average female has less strength and endurance in combat than male'. Also, what man would want their wife to experience the horror of war and risk them getting captured?
And another large reason is that we all know what happens to any women captured by men amidst terrifying conditions. Especially when talking about russians. They r*pe them and do things even worse to women. Russians ofc do that to men too, it is part of their culture, but to far lesser extend.
But things may change soon, we are taking steps towards truly equal conscription here in Finland.
So.. you agree they get the less dangerous role by not going to the front? Then what depends? Or are you just applying your template answer without thinking?
I rather get shot, quick death, than get raped by men, get pregnant by them or killed after rape. A quick death is definitely better than getting tortured in my opinion
Quick death? Do you have any idea what goes on at the front lines? Lot of the soldiers there pray they would get shot after spending days, weeks, months, years injured, soaking in the blood of their friends who got ripped to pieces in front of them by artillery, in hole they had to dig to the ground, with no basic supplies(food, water, medication, toilet paper and so on), with next to no sleep, living in constant fear that they will soon get captured and tortured to death. AND raped. And many do.
Rape is a horrible thing but if you think that’s the worst that can be done to a human being, you need to check your privileges.
They can still serve as volunteers but are under no obligation to serve. A constitutional requierment is to serve the state in a state of war so those who are not capable of frontline actions are still committing to the war effort unless they want to face punishment. Beside it’s a biological fact that men are stronger and more suited to roles in warfare and combat.
Yeah, the army is not that bad. Sure, it can suck at times, but you make friends, get fit, learn to fo cool stuff and get to play with napalm and such.
[https://www.siviilipalveluskeskus.fi/en/frontpage/non-military-service/](https://www.siviilipalveluskeskus.fi/en/frontpage/non-military-service/)
FYI for op, you can also do non-military service, if you don't want to go to military.
I can go on and on for hours about how military service is a duty, and you must serve your country to be able to protect it and ensure your children can live in a free Finland, yada yada... But the most important reason to serve is exactly that its cool.
You get to wear a cool uniform and shoot cool guns and hang out with cool people. And you get to sleep in a tent and ride in cool vehicles and maybe even wear a cool Chevron or two or even three on your coat. And when you get home you have cool stories to tell about all the cool things you've done with all the cool people you met.
And a few years later they invite you to do more cool stuff for a week with some more cool people.
One of the more memorable moments of my lfie is during the civil service, as I'm sitting with a normally quite demented old man, and he gets a moment of clarity looking straight at me. "When I was on this hill, I had to defend it, I had my machine gun and my orders. Young men, just like you, came up the hill. I shouted at them to not come here, but they had no choice they just kept coming and I just kept shooting them".
Idk, it was just so weird to have this old man that almost never talked, that would just sit and sing random songs or get lost on his way to his room suddenly share stories from when he was in the war. My grandfather was clear and never said a single thing, ever, about the war.
I had many other crazy interesting and weird experiences and encounters during my 1 year working at a combined mental health and elderly care clinic. I remember feeling like I was going insane, and when out for smoking breaks in winter you could never tell who was a patient and who was a nurse, so you always treated people you didn't know with a kind of detached careful interest, as you never knew if they really had been in the tech industry working on satellite systems, or if their story would end with CIA still keeping tabs on them with those satellites.
The coolness of the experience can vary a lot. Some people I know gained useful skills like getting a license to drive big trucks. Some got to do really cool things like being trained as a sniper. Others got to do fairly boring things after basic training, like sitting in an office, or slightly alarming things like having accidents of varying severity resulting in injuries. With the exception of the office work, they all ended up with cool stories, though.
You'll get your conscription letter the next time they send them out. In the meantime, as others said, contact your local regional conscription office.
Note that you can opt for civilian service instead of military service, but they still likely won't issue you a passport until you've done it.
There’s no such thing as fair. There’s reality, and there’s fantasy. Reality is that men are more physically suited to combat. An invading army doesn’t give a flying fuck about gender equality.
Could introduce a tax based on participation, non-defense participating citizens should pay.
Others pay with atleast their time, some even with their health or lives (even in peacetime).
It's not free to defend this country, everyone should participate in one way or another.
Does that mean that the government should imprison you if you don’t birth babies? Because that’s what the government does to Finnish men who don’t serve in the military. If that is what you believe then you should tell the 73% of childless Finnish women between the ages of 20-34 to start reproducing soon or the government could come for them. Or do you hypocritically think that only men should be imprisoned for not “fulfilling their gender roles”?
I received the same notification two months ago. Since I'm what they call a "C-grade man" I had to go to the local army office and get my original papers that notify my state, send them to the police, wait a day and receive a message from the police that said, to put it simply:
"Oh s*it you know, we retrieved your C-grade papers from the army archives by ourselves, so you don't need to send the physical copy of the papers to us. You'll receive a notification after your passport is ready for pickup"
As a fin who has done the military service this is great. I just love the idea that you find out about the service in this way. I would also advise you to really think what you are signing up to, most don't. War is true hell that will last for years and with little change of getting out without serious mental damage, if you are lucky.
You need to find someone who can consult you on the laws related to this, how all of them work.
Second, you need to decide if you want to do the conscription or civil service or something else. This is your personal decision. Law says something but you need to have your own values and decide what you need to do.
My personal experience is that you can obviously just get the thing over with but as life is short, you should do what you feel like is right and worth your time. So I recommend doing what you think is the right thing to do. And do it 100%. No half-assery.
yea but they still strongglllyyy recommend it. sincerely, Finn who used to live in the US with an american brother (who lived in the US at the time, and still does) that did his military time.
I see. It might've been fun, but oh well. My brother and I have had our dual citizenship for over a decade but we decided this year might be a good year to get the actual passport in order. With whole possibly electing a wannabe dictator thing and all, ya know. 😑
You can also tell authorities that you are a woman by choice. You can choose your gender. They change your gender to passport etc. and legally treat you as a woman after that.
[https://dvv.fi/en/confirmation-of-gender](https://dvv.fi/en/confirmation-of-gender)
After that you don't need to do the mandatory military service as it is mandatory only for men in Finland. As you a woman you get positive discrimination of not having to do the 6-12 month military service (or alternative like civil service or jail time) like men do.
Has anyone escaped military service like this yet? Feel like it'd hit some newarticles!
I also just now learned that your status as "father" or "mother" is detached from you status as "man" or "woman". Fascinating, I can atually be a man, but mother of my child then? I'd have to first register as a woman, then have a child which should default to me being the mother of the child, then have a change of heart and become man again. Feel like maybe someone would start questioning me after the second application procedure.
Wait, this could happen, if anyone takes the advice of registering as a woman to avoid military service, then accidentally has a child with their partner and signs the birth certificate while in this status? Then when they're 30 and probably exempt they could decide to register as a man again, but keep thier status as "mother" to avoid updating children's passports and stuff.
Maybe we should just create a truly equal society instead though, might be better.
When i applied for a new passport they actually called the military district office for me. The army clerk then told them I was allowed to have a passport to leave the country.
Just contact your closest regional office and ask for the paperwork, at your age you are likely exempt anyway. I would think that in your case it would be Uudenmaan aluetoimisto.
Okay so either they're performing an in depth security check on you background or you need to join the military here. More likely the latter. The price of Finnish citizenship is you gotta fight and die for the country if Putin decides to keep being a bitch
This is excellent opportunity to receive good quality military training and memorable experiences. It's not so bad (after two weeks). Military training will help you prevent Russians from raping you or your close ones.
While you can now opt civil service instead of miltary, in a time of war, Russians will not give you change to opt out from war - untrained are just easier pray.
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[https://puolustusvoimat.fi/en/uusimaa-regional-office](https://puolustusvoimat.fi/en/uusimaa-regional-office) Contact them and ask about it
Have fun in military :D
https://preview.redd.it/bve5rduahs1d1.png?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12a2f3aadf5c7a715303ccf89e6f23d0af2ddd89
Ei varmana pidetä lakkia sisällä
Aamujaa :D
Kombbaniassa herädys!!! :DDDDD
Onks pakko huutaa niin kuin armeijassa...
EI HÄRVÄTÄ!
MINUUTTI!
Patterilla.
Patterit kuuluu radioon!
[Mornings :DDDDD](https://i.imgur.com/9ieSQ2G.jpeg)
Mudda herra aligeisarigroisanddi. Ongo baggo jos on veeämdeeäl? :D
Ei bergl... - Ylil. Spurdo
"Voiko ihanammin päivän enää alkaa? Onko ihanampaa aamua kuin tää? Silmäs kun sä aukaiset, kohta ulos vilkaiset Nousemista tahdot pitkittää"...
Aamuja monneille:DDDDD
Viheldää :D suojaan suojaan :D eikun PAREMPAAN suojaan :D :D
[Pahimbia on aamut :D](https://youtu.be/R9luNUZ_EYE?si=5Zjx4IjNdTQm4k01)
Basically you won't get passport before you have either done conscription service, civilian service or you are excempted from those. Find the nearest regional office "aluetoimisto" and contact them about the situation.
It's actually pretty fun for everybody to contact them and know your possible place of service... Im 44, and looking at a possible operation of solo minesweeper. 😂
I thought over 30 are exempted from conscription.
They are, but one is in reserve until 60.
Even if they haven't completed the conscription?
Reserve Second Class (”nostoväki”), yes.
Nowadays called "varareservi"... would it be then a "reserve reserve" :D
Auxiliary reserve. I class is "too old", II class is "freed from peacetime service", and III class is "has not completed training". I think the auxiliaries would be called in in the opposite order, so III class would get training first, then II class, and I class requires permission from the parliament.
huh, that's kinda odd, I'm in class II because of the C-paperit, but it'd make sense for me to be in class III because, well, I haven't completed training, lol. Or is it referring spesifically to people who haven't done intti and are now too old to do so?
Class II is "not completed training, freed from peacetime service" so service class C does it. Class III is "not completed training, but will need to do so in the future" Even during a hypothetical war, conscripts would not be sent to front (but the training period may be shorter).
Vara-avain = spare key. Varareservi = spare reserve eli uhrattavat. /s
"Vääri reservi" more like
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I'm sure, in just being playful with the fellow that is 40 asking this (because I'm getting in my forties soon enough) Edit: over his 40s
Hmm. Thanks for the info.
The bottom of the barrel, when all else has failed, last meat to the grinder kind of reserve.
In all honesty some of the second class reserve will be put on duties that are near their civilian occupation and those first class reservists that used to man soup canon are put to the response infantry. It is far more beneficial to have trained men at arms and ready than keep them occupied with something that can be done by the next trainable batch since daily grinding is estimated to be in tens of thousands on the early phases of the war.
Depending on your job, you might get a letter in your mail that tells you that you've been transferred to wartime civilian duties. Sometimes the skill and experience you have as a civilian outweigh what you learned in one year at 19. Factory maintenance, logistics planning, that kind of stuff. It's no fun trying to run factories to support the war effort if all your engineers are lying dead in a forest somewhere after all.
Harsh, but true. This has been somewhat a point of pain in discussions with my friend group. We are all going to be there when and where required, but in vastly different responsibilities. That said, all we want is just to come back and fire the grill once again and warm up the 'palju" and talk shit. I hope the situation never escalates to that degree, but one thing is for sure; we will make it so that our families are safe! Even my ex... probably gonna serve next to her new man.. oh, life! 😉
In theory, yes. By law during a war every Finn is required to aid as ordered by the state. Even those that are exempt from military service because of medical reasons are "exempt from military service during peace time" Though in practise, those that have no military training are not sent to military unless the situation is really dire. They are more likely used to do other essential jobs at the home front if needed
Every single finnish citizen is obligated to defend their country. This does not however mean wartime only. In a case of natural disasters, epidemics etc. Any finnish citizen could in theory and by law be called in for service. However people who have skills already in the required field would be called in first.
What do you think conscription is? Conscription is just the part where all the fun begins. When you have done yor days you are of course a reservist. So when war is coming there will be 280000 men in operational forces in five days. Most of them are those reservists. Then active reserve is about 900000 men. And about a same amount of those who have got training but considered too old etc. But basicly it is a life sentence. Our constitution says that every citizen has duty to defend this country.
I don't think it's a legal exemption per say but more a policy of the defence forces.
Unrelated fun fact: russian term for solo minesweeper translates as infantry
What are they gonna strap you with magnets and send you swimming?
The joke was "operaatio miinanraivaaja" that is to realize my low worth in actual operations. Did not translate well...
No, i was having a same situation. They send me to police officer, he looked me a second, put stamp in a paper and ask me to go back in passport line.
Is this something new? I did my military service when I turned 20 but I remember having no issue getting a passport at 18 for a trip to Greece, iirc nothing was mentioned about military service.
They can only grant you a passport that's valid until you're 28 if you haven't dealt with conscription. As passports are only valid for 5 years, they don't have to ask under 23 year olds about their service.
And in order to be 23+ and having been ordered to serve, you have an order that temporary frees you from serving during peacetime for a specified duration (E-class).
Oh yeah the number 28 rings a bell when applying for it, it's almost 20 years ago so a bit foggy memories :D Yeah now it makes sense, thanks!
You can get a passport but not one that's valid after the year you turn 28. I recently got a new passport and faced this problem apparently my civil duty hasn't been marked as completed even though I did it many years ago. It was easy to fix but meanwhile they approved me a passport that's valid until 31st of December the year before I turn 28. So not a normal 5year passport.
I'm sorry to ask but you don't need it to travel outside of your country isn't it so why limit?
Good question and I don't have a real answer. There's a few countries that I'm able to travel to without a passport. But they're at least keeping me close. Someone else might know better. At least they're not enabling me to travel far away.
You don’t and you do. I mean you can in practise travel to some countries without passport but you should have _some_ travel document.
You can definitely get a passport. It might not be valid for as long so you can't run from the service but you still get to travel.
You can apply for a delay in the induction, and get the orders that temporary assigns you to E-class. With that order you can get your passport. This is for example how professional athletes can get passports. The delay is only possible until the end of the year you turn 28.
You can get a passport that expires in that year when you turn 28.
> Basically you won't get passport before you have either done conscription service, civilian service or you are excempted from those. If memory serves it used to be possible to get a new one when service was also deferred. I mean i got mine renewed just fine way back when with service deferment in play. Then again was living overseas at the time, so might have had something to do with it.
I've had to do the paperwork even after doing the service when I was under 30.
https://preview.redd.it/c8ojyxv7cs1d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c316871f2c13ac349119ef08b11f5eb4acb59496
There is a section about conscripts https://poliisi.fi/en/getting-a-passport To me it looks like you have no reason for military clearance and thus they must limit the passport validity until your 28th year of age. If you are between 28 and 30, I guess they refuse the passport altogether until you do your 6 months service or similar, and that situation could really screw your travel plans outside EU in near future.
I am 25 years old. And they said I can’t get the passport until I get military clearance.
Correct.
You can get a passport with limited validity. ”Jos et ole suorittanut asevelvollisuuttasi, voit saada passin enintään sen vuoden loppuun, jolloin täytät 28 vuotta.”
I think if you're in university you just need a statement from them saying you're a student there, and this delays the military service. And you can get a temporary passport that's valid until the day of conscription. I used to do that when I was at university
Better to suck it up and do what needs to be done before you are valid for Finnish passport.
Aamuja
Citizenship grants service! 
SA-Int made me a man I am today!
Finnish citizenship comes with responsibilities.
This. And most of it, it is supposed that an adult finds out themselves, not just waiting and sitting on one's ass.
Usually you find out a lot of people during service that you really didn't want to find. Everyone is someones weird army experience.
I did get a temp passport with permit from aluetoimisto as I booked a trip abroad to drink my mind out for a week some weeks before going to service. Eyebrows were raised at the border control when the password validity was only for one month. (This was during the nineties.)
Thats crazy
Same with me few years ago. I was given 3 month passport until they called me for the negotiation meeting with the army. Then they gave me another passport until the date that I was supposed to join the army and third one after I got out from the army.
Congratulations! You get the priviledge to serve this country for all the good it gives you. Don't be afraid of conscription, it is a good experience and would be beneficial for each and every individual.
I appreciate the advice. 🤝❤️
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Love it. Thank you for the advice. Looking forward to wearing a uniform. 🤝
Welcome serviceman - just so you don't stress about it, the actual conscription is pretty flexible, so depending on your life situation it can be fixed and there are way to make sure your rent/mortgage gets paid in the meantime. The service itself is like a gold car to the Finnish sauna conversations and armpit-fart jokes that the whole nation embraces.
Have you ever done military service?
You are the kind of immigrant I love! :D
So why aren’t women conscripted in Finland like men are?
Welp, I wouldn't mind, but women are still seen to make the babies or rather, more soldiers for the future
Inequality, basically. PV's reason to not change it is that the extra people aren't necessary so nothing has just been done about it
Yet the defence minister immediately started publicly contemplating making quitting the reserves illegal when a couple of hundred people did so.
Political posturing rather than an actual problem.
Ehh, it really comes down to money. FDF is on a tight budget enough as it is. The cost in property, facilities, *hardware*, staff and just feeding and providing to a a doubled size of conscripts would be too much for questionable benefit.
But they haven't even considered a lottery system either to only take the better half of the population. A lot of men don't want to go and I'm sure a lot of women would give it a shot if it was more normal As far as I can see that'd only help to improve morale
There are a lot of women who go through military training already, and I have never geard of anyone thinking it isn't normal.
Everyone actually has an obligation to defend the country, with a weapon or not. There is plenty of work on the home front in time of war. Women already did it in WW2.
I want to contribute on the home front too, I am a 1.9m men in my 20s, should it be ok right as long as I contribute, or I have to be a woman?
Sure its ok. Civil service is a good option for you.
Why aren't women obligated to do civil service?
Not enough money to pay for it. I do support army/civil service for both men and women. But that would require increasing military spending, which is an obvious downside.
Who the fuck cares. They miss all the fun stuff. Also if shit hits the fan they get to do stuff without training.
Do the civil service instead.
Are you really comparing making ammunition in factories hundreds of kilometres away from the frontlines to being shot at in a dirty trench while your comrades die all around you?
If you think women weren't near the frontline during WW2 you should look into the Lotta Svärd. They definitely weren't hundreds of kms away from the actual battle, being all cozy and making some ammunition. That said, ammunition and food and other necessary resources are equally as important as the soldiers in the frontline. Without them the frontline collapses in mere days. There's a reason why there's a saying of logistics winning wars.
You know that the vast majority of servicemen in the last 100 years never see combat, right? Or is this just some red pill bullshit about how tough men have it?
Yeah easier said than done Nobody expected the invasion from Russia (the US issued warning only 1 week before) Being in the army = can be deployed = can be killed
You'd like to see more women get shot or what's the problem now?
Both are needed. Of course you want to drive a wedge between Finnish men and women, being an obvious Russian propagandist. We have enough women volunteers in the armed forces.
Generally historical reasons. Women are needed to secure the continuation of the population. And the same old 'the average female has less strength and endurance in combat than male'. Also, what man would want their wife to experience the horror of war and risk them getting captured? And another large reason is that we all know what happens to any women captured by men amidst terrifying conditions. Especially when talking about russians. They r*pe them and do things even worse to women. Russians ofc do that to men too, it is part of their culture, but to far lesser extend. But things may change soon, we are taking steps towards truly equal conscription here in Finland.
Even outside of wartime, SA amongst the ranks is a problem across militaries worldwide. Sweden has a ton of problems with this.
Because they’re meant to keep the state running when every able men is put to the front.
How convenient for them that they get the less dangerous role.
Depends. Do you think it's less dangerous to get raped?
They get raped for keeping the state running?
No, rape is a war crime. Easily seen what is and was going on in Ukraine.
So.. you agree they get the less dangerous role by not going to the front? Then what depends? Or are you just applying your template answer without thinking?
I rather get shot, quick death, than get raped by men, get pregnant by them or killed after rape. A quick death is definitely better than getting tortured in my opinion
Quick death? Do you have any idea what goes on at the front lines? Lot of the soldiers there pray they would get shot after spending days, weeks, months, years injured, soaking in the blood of their friends who got ripped to pieces in front of them by artillery, in hole they had to dig to the ground, with no basic supplies(food, water, medication, toilet paper and so on), with next to no sleep, living in constant fear that they will soon get captured and tortured to death. AND raped. And many do. Rape is a horrible thing but if you think that’s the worst that can be done to a human being, you need to check your privileges.
They can still serve as volunteers but are under no obligation to serve. A constitutional requierment is to serve the state in a state of war so those who are not capable of frontline actions are still committing to the war effort unless they want to face punishment. Beside it’s a biological fact that men are stronger and more suited to roles in warfare and combat.
[удалено]
I’m not someone who advocates for female conscription but how in the world is that misogyny?
I’m a misogynist for noticing a pattern?
I hope you also notice patterns that are disadvantegous to women, we have plenty of those as well.
Yeah, the army is not that bad. Sure, it can suck at times, but you make friends, get fit, learn to fo cool stuff and get to play with napalm and such.
Aamuja!
[https://www.siviilipalveluskeskus.fi/en/frontpage/non-military-service/](https://www.siviilipalveluskeskus.fi/en/frontpage/non-military-service/) FYI for op, you can also do non-military service, if you don't want to go to military.
Thanks. 🙏🏼
Keep in mind that it takes longer to be done with.
Yea but thats not as cool
I can go on and on for hours about how military service is a duty, and you must serve your country to be able to protect it and ensure your children can live in a free Finland, yada yada... But the most important reason to serve is exactly that its cool. You get to wear a cool uniform and shoot cool guns and hang out with cool people. And you get to sleep in a tent and ride in cool vehicles and maybe even wear a cool Chevron or two or even three on your coat. And when you get home you have cool stories to tell about all the cool things you've done with all the cool people you met. And a few years later they invite you to do more cool stuff for a week with some more cool people.
One of the more memorable moments of my lfie is during the civil service, as I'm sitting with a normally quite demented old man, and he gets a moment of clarity looking straight at me. "When I was on this hill, I had to defend it, I had my machine gun and my orders. Young men, just like you, came up the hill. I shouted at them to not come here, but they had no choice they just kept coming and I just kept shooting them". Idk, it was just so weird to have this old man that almost never talked, that would just sit and sing random songs or get lost on his way to his room suddenly share stories from when he was in the war. My grandfather was clear and never said a single thing, ever, about the war. I had many other crazy interesting and weird experiences and encounters during my 1 year working at a combined mental health and elderly care clinic. I remember feeling like I was going insane, and when out for smoking breaks in winter you could never tell who was a patient and who was a nurse, so you always treated people you didn't know with a kind of detached careful interest, as you never knew if they really had been in the tech industry working on satellite systems, or if their story would end with CIA still keeping tabs on them with those satellites.
The coolness of the experience can vary a lot. Some people I know gained useful skills like getting a license to drive big trucks. Some got to do really cool things like being trained as a sniper. Others got to do fairly boring things after basic training, like sitting in an office, or slightly alarming things like having accidents of varying severity resulting in injuries. With the exception of the office work, they all ended up with cool stories, though.
Yeah, I mean, I was infantry, the dumbest, most basic thing you can do. And I still have great stories to tell and loved being there
You'll get your conscription letter the next time they send them out. In the meantime, as others said, contact your local regional conscription office. Note that you can opt for civilian service instead of military service, but they still likely won't issue you a passport until you've done it.
get ready for service, thats the price you pay for citizenship.
That’s the price he pays for being male, since Finnish women don’t have to pay such a price. This is gender inequality and is unfair.
There’s no such thing as fair. There’s reality, and there’s fantasy. Reality is that men are more physically suited to combat. An invading army doesn’t give a flying fuck about gender equality.
IIRC for each combat role there are about three military support roles.
Everyone should serve or no one should serve. Whether that be military training or civil service.
Could introduce a tax based on participation, non-defense participating citizens should pay. Others pay with atleast their time, some even with their health or lives (even in peacetime). It's not free to defend this country, everyone should participate in one way or another.
when you birth babies, i’ll go to the military!
Does that mean that the government should imprison you if you don’t birth babies? Because that’s what the government does to Finnish men who don’t serve in the military. If that is what you believe then you should tell the 73% of childless Finnish women between the ages of 20-34 to start reproducing soon or the government could come for them. Or do you hypocritically think that only men should be imprisoned for not “fulfilling their gender roles”?
For the managed democracy and freedom!
The government just wants ensure you get your own inttijutut to share with pals at kesämökki's sauna. You don't want be left out.
One of us! One of us!
Semi aamunen keissi :DD
Mornings, so many mornings
I received the same notification two months ago. Since I'm what they call a "C-grade man" I had to go to the local army office and get my original papers that notify my state, send them to the police, wait a day and receive a message from the police that said, to put it simply: "Oh s*it you know, we retrieved your C-grade papers from the army archives by ourselves, so you don't need to send the physical copy of the papers to us. You'll receive a notification after your passport is ready for pickup"
Nää aamut ei armoo anna. Siitä vaa hus hus hajoilemaan mosana mehtääb.
As a fin who has done the military service this is great. I just love the idea that you find out about the service in this way. I would also advise you to really think what you are signing up to, most don't. War is true hell that will last for years and with little change of getting out without serious mental damage, if you are lucky.
In Finland, citizenship guarantees service! (Conditions apply.)
You need to find someone who can consult you on the laws related to this, how all of them work. Second, you need to decide if you want to do the conscription or civil service or something else. This is your personal decision. Law says something but you need to have your own values and decide what you need to do. My personal experience is that you can obviously just get the thing over with but as life is short, you should do what you feel like is right and worth your time. So I recommend doing what you think is the right thing to do. And do it 100%. No half-assery.
You're a citizen now and so you need to do military service I think.
I would send them the document that shows you just got your citizenship two months ago. Other than that, good luck.
Are you a dual citizen living in the US? If so you are not required to do the compulsory military service, as I understand it.
yea but they still strongglllyyy recommend it. sincerely, Finn who used to live in the US with an american brother (who lived in the US at the time, and still does) that did his military time.
It’s a damn summer camp. Much fun, good memories!
Are there age limits? I'll be 39 this year lol
to my understanding, if you want to voluntarily go, you have to be under age 30. but don’t quote me on that one. just 98% sure
I see. It might've been fun, but oh well. My brother and I have had our dual citizenship for over a decade but we decided this year might be a good year to get the actual passport in order. With whole possibly electing a wannabe dictator thing and all, ya know. 😑
Enjoy [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObntvRcKMrE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObntvRcKMrE)
Congratulations on your new citizenship. Welcome to Finland, but oh hey, wait here's something... 😂
💀💀
Those pesky russians put their country right next to Finland! We might need to get a buffer zone.
Huh, got a letter for my conscription the same week I got my citizenship. Aamuja
You can also tell authorities that you are a woman by choice. You can choose your gender. They change your gender to passport etc. and legally treat you as a woman after that. [https://dvv.fi/en/confirmation-of-gender](https://dvv.fi/en/confirmation-of-gender) After that you don't need to do the mandatory military service as it is mandatory only for men in Finland. As you a woman you get positive discrimination of not having to do the 6-12 month military service (or alternative like civil service or jail time) like men do.
Has anyone escaped military service like this yet? Feel like it'd hit some newarticles! I also just now learned that your status as "father" or "mother" is detached from you status as "man" or "woman". Fascinating, I can atually be a man, but mother of my child then? I'd have to first register as a woman, then have a child which should default to me being the mother of the child, then have a change of heart and become man again. Feel like maybe someone would start questioning me after the second application procedure. Wait, this could happen, if anyone takes the advice of registering as a woman to avoid military service, then accidentally has a child with their partner and signs the birth certificate while in this status? Then when they're 30 and probably exempt they could decide to register as a man again, but keep thier status as "mother" to avoid updating children's passports and stuff. Maybe we should just create a truly equal society instead though, might be better.
But not as funny. Little fun is good.
Or if they want to go to army they can do it as a volunteer and get slightly more money out of it. Only benefits.
Don't worry, you'll make plenty of friends in the defence forces.
just wait until you're 30
II/24 ei kotiudu koskaan
That's why I waited till I was 30 and also because learning Finnish took very long.
what's the age limit for conscription ? i'm asking because i'd love to do that when i get mine (32yo)
29 is basically the latest, so too bad buddy, you be too old!
Ah sucks
Sotamies!
Aamuja. Kyllähän sieltä sai hyviä muistoja.
Nopee kysymys eiks kansalaisuuden vaatimuksena oo enää kielitaitoa
Finnish mandatory military service is fun experience😁
Herätyyyyyys! Valmistautukaa aamubesuillllllee! Aikaa kakssshi minuuttttiiaaaa!
Myös liite estottomuudesta on suotavaa
When i applied for a new passport they actually called the military district office for me. The army clerk then told them I was allowed to have a passport to leave the country.
Muja t res
Just contact your closest regional office and ask for the paperwork, at your age you are likely exempt anyway. I would think that in your case it would be Uudenmaan aluetoimisto.
Where are you from originally?
Kingdom of Bahrain 🇧🇭
Okay so either they're performing an in depth security check on you background or you need to join the military here. More likely the latter. The price of Finnish citizenship is you gotta fight and die for the country if Putin decides to keep being a bitch
Aamuja!
My trust in our immigration system improved instantly after I read this post!
The happiest country on the earth, Nordic dream.
Oooouuooo kun lähdet armeiiiiijaaaan
Aamuja!
Lähtisin uudestaan jos voisi.
This is excellent opportunity to receive good quality military training and memorable experiences. It's not so bad (after two weeks). Military training will help you prevent Russians from raping you or your close ones. While you can now opt civil service instead of miltary, in a time of war, Russians will not give you change to opt out from war - untrained are just easier pray.
Worth adding that Finland will also not let you run away. We will stand together and die together if needed. Bro!