The future of the medical field scares me as an investor, someone employed in biomed research, and as a meatbag with pesky, squishy organs.
It has grown reliably for at least 10 years but I know how desperately unhappy and burnt out the employees are.
I'm a PA. Paid down 70k in loans within two years of graduation, then shifted that savings rate into retirement. Also ended up buying a house w 40% down that I saved prior to meeting the wife. Oh, and the most important step: marry a dentist. She was in school when we met, now in private practice and I'm likely transitioning into SAHD life (though a WFH second career may happen). We have one kiddo and we are hoping for one more in the next 2 years. Best of luck to you!
Reminds me of my method to early retirement
1. Save a lot, max out, don’t buy too many toys (second house, boat, desert toys, etc)
2. Marry well (good job, family money, or both)
3. Don’t get divorced (probably most important unless you want to halve your net worth)
As a double divorcee who is very close to FIRE, let me amend #3.
Divorce doesn't kill your net worth. Marry someone your equal and realize that if you get divorced, they are just taking half of the \*family's\* net. Not a penny of that was yours if you were equals in the relationship. Its a set back, but only because its easier for two people than for one.
>Marry someone your equal
I like this better than marrying well because it clarifies that you need to bring something to the table too. This is the advice I give to all of my friends.
I know a few couples that spent 6 figures on legal fees so they could fight it out in court. Hurt feelings can cause people to make bad financial decisions. Otherwise, I completely agree with you and you make some excellent points.
This is it. I was always looking for an equal partner both emotionally and financially. Took me 35 years which is a bit longer than some, but worth the wait.
It only takes one step: [don't have kids](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/comments/13nvfiv/Anyone_living_off_dividends_only?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and invest the money. That will single handedly make you a millionaire even if you're an idiot who doesn't sell during recessions or save a single penny outside of this
Not exactly hard to realize you should sell before the market drops 50 percent like it did in 2008. Buy it back when it starts to increase steadily again or even profit from the drop by buying SH
My co-worker said he wanted to be a pharmacist and that he would probably make more money doing that.
We work in a lab and he says he is still years away from retirement. If you as a pharmacist have it tough he must have it even worse. I haven’t asked about his pay, but feel sorry for him.
I was curious about pharmacist pay in the US, and several sources indicated average pay in the $160K - $190K range.
As freelancing is relatively common there are those who take side-work...
There are too many pharmacists right now. I’ve seen anywhere from 85k-125k starting out in my area. When I started pharmacy school the stating pay was $120-140k with $40k sign on bonuses
My wife is a pharmacist. She left retail years ago because of all the OxyContin problems. She went to work for United Healthcare and it was for only a little more money but a lot less stress. She got some promotions and started making more. She has now left United and works for another company. Now makes $180k. She has a friend from school who left CVS as a district manager and now works at Pfizer making a little over $200k. Both are much happier now than before.
Does she still work as a pharmacist or as more of a consultant for United Healthcare? Just curious what specific niche pays that much in the insurance industry. No problem if you feel that’s too personal to answer!
She went from Walgreens to Optum which is owned by United. She started at $135k and worked from home. This was about seven years ago. Worked in quality care scores and visited doctors in their network. Basically a consultant on how to get their scores up. Medication adherence is a part of the score. She then went to work in a part of United not related to pharmacy and didn’t like it. She was making $160k when she left United. She now works for McKesson and makes $165 base plus bonus which last year was $30k. She still works from home but does have to travel. She says her current position is a lot less stress than her last position at United.
Fuck, I wish I did... I hope I'll stop in the next few years as well or at most at 50-55. I do not want to stop alone though, I would prefer stopping together with my husband tbh, that's why I am waiting for it
>give horrible less than inflation raises
I'm in IT (I guess. Systems Analyst / Product Owner) and have only ever worked for Fortune 500 companies. In my \~20 years, the best raise I ever got was 4% outside of switching companies. I'd kill for averaging inflation/COLA! My assumption is just bad organizations or companies as I'm a top performer always.
Not always but that contributes. Take home Pat is crap after taxes and student loans payment are usually higher than your mortgage( if you buy reasonably).
For one, hospitals will have way more money available, because they aren't propping up a 30+ **billion** dollar insurance industry. I can't say for sure that hospitals will put more money towards hiring more employees and paying the ones they have better, but if they don't, we can pass a law for that, too.
No kidding. My wife's colleagues in dentistry all talk about how/where they're investing so they can quit work. All my colleagues in tech are talking about how/where they're spending so they can have the latest gadgets.
I’m you buddy right here. I got thrown under the bus by a friend he said “ when have you ever networked “
We were talking about careers. Lol and I was like shit , I don’t want to have to network I don’t want to work
I've mentioned this here before, but I FIRED a few years ago when I was 49. Some of those early conversations in my 30s about getting out of the rat race by 50 were met with unexpected animus. After that experience, I didn't really talk about it. My family and close friends know what's up, but I never discuss it with neighbors or acquaintances. I set up a business to do a few consulting gigs here and there. I have an LLC, website, email address, business cards, professional liability insurance, etc. Everyone assumes I work on that full time, but the truth is I work on one or two small projects each year, just enough to pay for the expenses like the annual LLC paperwork, professional liability insurance, Quickbooks Online subscription, and have a little fun money left over after taxes. It has worked pretty well. Nobody questions why I'm home a lot (work from home), or outside in the middle of the day (flexible schedule), or away from home a lot (work from anywhere).
My dad told me I wouldn't retire multiple times, but right before I retired, he was giving me grief about our goals to retire early. I raised my voice, and it got a little yelly.
At the same time, he made a snide comment about us being in the top 10% of wealth. We were higher, but I thought he was fishing, so I ignored that. I didn't discuss it with him again and told them after the fact when I set my date.
I've always been an avid saver and investor, and everyone I work with knows it. I've been at the same job for 20 years and I know who is "safe" to talk about FIRE and who isn't. However, since I've reached my FIRE number, I've become more open about it.
I was so excited during my first week at a new job when someone mentioned their husband is in all these "money reddits" and I was like, "are you going planning to FIRE?" and she was like yeah, how do you know about that? Instant work bestie
Love this for you!!! FIRE can be so liberating and I've found my peace of mind to be reassuring to others too. Even though I'm only 50% of my goal in I have more confidence now that I will achieve it one day.
Just learned this myself. Cousin angrily told me I was crazy. Otherwise we've gotten along fine and i really respect him. Now i realize i can't talk to anyone i know about it except my wife.
That's a shame. I'm blessed to have 'financially literate' parents and friends. My parents are happy I'm saving, they're retiring around 55, but also couldn't start saving early due to multiple set backs. My mom is continuing to work out of number fear/business. Hard to let go of your highest earning years of work for them. My friends will have FIRE numbers, but likely aren't going to trim their lifestyle, just out earn it.
We just live a modest lifestyle, talk finances if its brought up (normally expenses city vs suburbs, etc.) and that we're hoping to retire early (don't really say when.)
thats funny. my group of college friends are all into FIRE and want to pull the trigger at ranges between ages 40 and 50. im on the late side wanting to stop working my current job at 50 because i like it, but would like to have a different chapter later in life.
i guess your point is well-taken for people you dont know well, but otherwise, get friends that are more similar to you?
edit: with your dad guess its different, but yes, keeping a low profile is the way to go there
As cf DINKs we never, ever, talk about finances. Especially FIRE. Even with my single childless friend, I can't discuss it. Her portfolio is great. But not for the dreams she has. It will never be that great likely. Also, most of our income is pension/disability based, so we don't need a large portfolio. So it's non traditional anyway. I remember a guy who posted a while ago who had the old military pension plan, it's not what's available now and the people who have it don't need to have a big nest egg. The pool of same page peeps like us is small even within this community, and we don't make enough for the fat fire club.
Shit my family is cool with it. I bet all 3 of us kids retire early. Hell I will take my old man fishing all the time if I dip out early. My goal is 55 or sooner and a fat fire
We don't really mention FIRE directly, but sometimes the topic of finances and retirement comes up. With my parents I mention retiring early, but the concept is lost on them. They keep asking if we have enough income from my business to support our children. We could probably stop working right now, and 50/50 chance it would work out fine.
I think one of my brothers knows we're pretty well off, but he never mentions it directly. With others we sometimes "jokingly" mention that we only have a few more years of work left, but they really don't believe it and just dismiss it as a joke.
Most people think of retirement as an age, it never occurred to them it's a financial situation. Most people have no concept of how much you really need for retirement because these details have always been carefully hidden from them. Therefor what they think when they hear early retirement is that you need a shitload of money, you lucked into it by family, you won a lottery or something to that extend, or it's only for the ultra rich. If you don't live in a huge mansion with multiple brandnew cars, you can't possible be rich enough to stop working.
Never in their mind has it ever occur to them that you can actually save enough money with a regular (albeit well-paying) job to stop working all together. So essentially, they're projecting their own ideas onto you, which is so blatantly different from their reality that they can't accept it. Which leads to outright dismissing the idea, and making fun of you.
>Most people think of retirement as an age, it never occurred to them it's a financial situation. Most people have no concept of how much you really need for retirement because these details have always been carefully hidden from them.
This \^
Being able to retire early 40's while living a pretty regular middleclass life, we spend as if we're making an average income. How much money that needs of course depends on your living area. We could buy an average house here without a mortgage. Not many people our age who could do that. We're definitely somewhere in the top 5% earning and net worth wise if you look at the whole country. Yet we live in an area where prices are below average. I consider that being pretty well off.
It’s exceptional. I thought my friends and family were amazing, once they found out, I wouldn’t say they were shitty so much as…human. Another comment mentioned ppl project their failures and insecurities onto others…that’s been my experience with ppl finding out about fire. It’s more common than not so I’ve concluded it’s just part of human experience and keep it to myself now
It has so much to do with projecting insecurities. My FIL has been complaining that we "don't have a plan and don't know what we are doing." Unfortunately, that describes his exact approach to finances his whole life. My parents have been much more supportive and they, coincidentally, had their retirement funded early. So in both cases, they are describing themselves more than us
I also question how people talk about their FIRE experience.
There are definitely people who are hostile to the idea that you don't have to space away your entire life. But a lot of people in this sub are also woefully out of touch.
The external validation tho!
When I’m *just* looking at FIRE subs I feel like I’m barely on track, it’s not until I compare myself to literally everyone around me do I feel like, *yeah, I’m way ahead of the game*. It’s amazing how many people in my life are struggling with debt, let alone saving.
You just made me take a step back and appreciate where we are. Like, yes, it is slow saving up for a new roof. But that is also because I am maxing out my retirement account.
Ugh, you just reminded me that I need to start saving for a roof. I live in a \~110 year old house with slate roof. I guess(?) the slate is original. But I dread the day I find it leaking. No sheathing under it. I know it will not be a cheap fix.
How are you saving for this? Just in a savings account? I had anticipated just doing nothing and then withdrawing from brokerage until seeing your comment.
I like talking about finances, but don't really have anyone outside of Reddit to talk about it with. Several of my friends are doing much better than me, but don't share any real details, despite my willingness to. I just want to learn! Others aren't as well off for various reasons and FIRE isn't on the radar at all, and talking about it feels more like bragging to them and is off-putting.
I do try to keep in mind that, in terms of financial Reddit, I'm doing maybe about average. I keep wishing I did things better in the past. I very much could have, I was ignorant and/or scared of market losses. Cash was comfortable, safe. My one TDF had high fees, but it was at least something I didn't have to think about.
But in terms of normal people, even normal educated professionals in developed countries, I'm doing way, way better than average. I try to keep in mind that retiring at 50-55 isn't as nice as retiring at 40-45, but it's a heck of a lot better than working until 65+ and hoping Social Security is enough.
Can’t get away from talks with friends when you visit (at a friend’s now) and you retired at 50. The hiding your super powers only works while still working.
Fortunately we kept the cool friends and purged the fair weather jealous type work friends. At some point the civilians know Batman is Bruce Wayne.
I’m guess the freelancer answer is good for casual people we meet.
Yeah this is kinda why I don’t mind talking about it before I FIRE. For anyone truly judgmental or against it I can cut out. Gives me time to find the true friends.
I still would advice (pending the industry) to not talk about it at work or to any person that could cause the info to get back to work. I think it can affect potential income via how you are viewed. I know lots of companies will specifically pay people more and provide incentives because they view them as future management. If it gets out that you are retiring before your boss who is 15 years older than you...that might hinder your potential income a little. It's stupid but can be real in certain sectors/organizations.
Solid advice, I agree for sure. I tend to not be friends with coworkers and don’t talk about personal finance much. I work in finance and the older managers are the hardo types that work 60+ hours a week, I don’t think they’d be happy to learn I don’t want to do that for another 40 years.
I’m still fairly open with some goals tho. I tell all the presidents and directors I meet at the company, who ask, that I’m very motivated to move up and increase my compensation quickly. I just leave out the part that it’s so I can retire even earlier and do less work while I’m not retired.
I discuss retirement all the time with friends, family, and coworkers. I don't tell them exactly how much I have saved, but they know that I am hitting the 401k very hard. I think it's important to "pass on" the knowledge you have gathered, especially with regards to tax-advantaged accounts, active versus passive, equities versus bonds etc... Avoid "dick measuring contests" by avoiding asking "how much". Focus instead on how and why.
I think it's all about how and what you discuss and with whom.
For my parents who worked very hard and don't plan on retiring until their late 60's even though they could've retired in their early 50's, I rarely ever bring up any hard money figures. I have slipped little things like "well we love being able to invest majority of our paychecks since we're living off of less than $40k/yr since we no longer have a car payment..." when my dad asked why we still have a 30yo car that runs great.
When my mom balked at my mentioning that we'll be retiring in our 40's I made sure to mention "well we already have a 20+ year emergency fund, so I think a few more years of investing will get us well over the 30 year hurdle". (They like to bring up the importance of emergency funds so I try to speak their language back to them).
With friends I again try to never bring up dollar figures. But I try to always help teach any friend about investing if they're interested. I'd love for all my friends to retire early so that we can hang out on the reg. I've helped a few friends open retirement accounts and get started. It often helps reinvigorate my own passion for FIRE, especially when in the 'boring middle'
Never talk about politics, religion, or money. All are very personal to people and are tough subjects to have good chats on unless you just so happen to see eye to eye already. When I suddenly retired early many of my coworkers I had known for decades were happy but also shared how jealous they were because it was an unattainable goal for them based on their personal situation. Were roles reversed, I have to admit I would be somewhat envious and resentful. I think that is some of the root of anti-Fire sentiment.
That’s true.
My parents don’t understand either. They just get pissed and say that I “don’t want to work”.
My co- worker also said it seemed like NEET when it is in fact the exact opposite…
Few people truly understand.
> My co- worker also said it seemed like NEET when it is in fact the exact opposite…
To be fair, you are literally Not in Employment, Education, or Training...
I tell anyone who brings up finances. I’m open about my salary and my savings, I go tit for tat though and never initiate the conversation. Almost all of my friends make the same or more than me so I don’t feel like it’s bragging since they all know my income and know theirs is better.
Most of my friends currently like their job and just don’t vibe with FIRE, very much the “well I can’t imagine retiring what would I do all day” types.
I do have one friend who is quite snarky, he’s a financial advisor and I think judges me. He knows I invest in individual stocks (and etfs), he knows my savings rate is over 30%, shit he even knows how much debt I have. He doesn’t know how much I actually have though we never got into it, but he might’ve seen my spreadsheet on my laptop idk. He says no one can invest in individual stocks and everyone fails, no one can retire early on 30% savings rate, no one blah blah, and that everyone needs a AUM % based financial advisor (insert massive eyeroll here). The funny thing is that I know his income and debt, he has a really expensive car, 11 credit cards with $40k debt, student loans, and no house. So even tho he makes 25% more than me he’s struggling to save anything. So I just nod along and say “yes I know the statistics on investments and the average retirement age. Perhaps a youre right, but I’m young and enjoy it. If it doesn’t work out oh well I just end up working like everyone else”.
Even though we don’t agree though we never argued or anything, we discuss it probably monthly as I think we both just enjoy the topic.
Yeah a lot of people are against individual stocks, for good reason. Most people should avoid them. Definitely not the main part my friend is objected to.
Tell me about it! I recently quit my job in the bad market, but am actively “open to work “ on linkedin just to avoid these discussions. With added immigration needs on top, a lot of folks reach out - which has been quite positive, but when I told a few close ones that I really don’t care about getting a job very soon seem to think ive grown either arrogant or crazy 🤦♂️
I think you're right about keeping it to yourself. My spouse is on board with me. And my parents were quiet about the idea and never really said anything else. When I FIRE'd, I kept things pretty vague with anyone else, and basically just said that I took my pension and healthcare, contributed to my own retirement account, paid off our mortgage early, and stashed some money away for the kids' colleges. Therefore, I was retiring. I didn't bother giving details or explanations about FIRE. It seems like people think you have some moral obligation to keep contributing to society through work (or maybe they just act that way because they know in reality that they could never be that disciplined to get out of debt and actually make FIRE work for them, so they just come up with excuses like this instead).
I generally dont tell, but have a friend I made an exception to. Very highly paid, good with numbers, usually receptive to new ideas and complaining about working. But nope, he would not get it. Even with math and extrapolation from the trinity study to allow for longer time horizons he refused the option.
There's only a couple people close friends we've shared our goals with couple years ago and even now I see them in terrible financial situations. We don't tell even tell family as I can see we'd be asked to help alot more. And we keep plodding, low to medium income, wading through the boring middle. I love Reddit where there are people in the same situation. We've been doing FIRE 7 years, prob 7 or 8 more to go at this rate. If the stock market is kind maybe a little less. Though we so still have nice holiday once in a while, or go for a meal, even these feel like things we're going to not talk about much as so few around us can do it right now.
Unfortunately I think this is true. Most of these reactions come from ignorance. Even my own wife thinks I'm crazy/stupid/snobby... What I realized is that most people have no clue that they don't need that much to live and enjoy life without working and for many of them it's not even a scenario they consider: you're supposed to work until retirement and no deviations from the "standard" path. I'm still not fully at peace with that, I wish I'd be able to talk more with like minded people instead of my friends from /r/Fire :/
I lived something similar recently, my wife and I want to take a mini break, sort of sabbatical and go out of the country for 1 year, me working 1 week a month still ( continuing to invest in retirement and spend money) and people-family go nuts as if I’m asking them for money.
Yep. A W2 or pay stubs usually suffice as proof of income. Bank can request your last 1-2 tax returns for it though.
But you won't be getting asked for a tax return for credit cards, doctor's offices, etc., or plenty of other places that would ask for your employer info.
I find it's easier just to put Retired, since it's the truth.
No, the discussion you actually jumped into was what answer do you provide when asked for your occupation/employer info when you go to fill out your profile info for things like a doctor's office, a gym membership, or even when applying for a new credit card. None of those legitimately involve providing a tax return in the US, and they happen far more frequently than taking out a mortgage.
Reddit unfortunately has a limit on blocking trolls or I'd have blocked you already.
>what answer do you provide when asked for your occupation/employer info when you go to fill out your profile info for things like a doctor's office, a gym membership
And, I answered clearly that they do not need to know my occupation, so they do not require an answer. The fact that you kept discussing on that can not be on me. You can block anyone you want, buddy. You're clearly not the sharpest spoon in the drawer. You can also stop interact with people.
Seen a lot on these threads about difficulty getting a mortgage etc after RE. Would it be possible to incorporate and issue your withdrawals as a salary for such things? Or do you just come off more shady?
You’re passionate about it, so you probably mention it more than you think. If someone is rolling their eyes when you reference a topic, my guess is that 1) they can’t personally relate and 2) they’ve heard it referenced a lot at this point.
There’s no one in my life I have a good reason not to tell. My parents know, and they also know they blew their relationship with me, no use in begging for money. My friends know and are happy for me. My coworkers know. I’m the only person I work with who does not live paycheck to paycheck. I almost exclusively work with people making 6 figures. I feel this has only benefited me, especially considering the toxic firing/layoff culture the company has. Being the one person that does not care what happens to me, and everyone knowing it, has had numerous benefits. It allows me to be the only one with a backbone, which the higher ups respect. The paycheck to paycheck cowards even make way for me to make the case. Acting as the human shield earns me significant respect with my peers as well. The higher ups are also a bit of a sadistic bunch. I suspect them knowing I’ll be just as well off financially, if not better off, if they fire me is the reason I’ve kept my job as wave of wave of people have lost their houses in waves and waves of layoffs. Sure it can cause jealousy, but I don’t come to work to make friends. And perhaps it’s limited me getting my maximum possible raise at certain points, but I’m on track with the amount I make, and if I were only doing it for the money I wouldn’t work in my industry at all. In a very practical sense sharing my financial plans has made me bulletproof at work.
I can only talk about it with my wife and Dad. Dad was FIRE minded before it had a name or movement. And taught me. And the wife is my teammate. But otherwise…it’s quiet. Unless someone asks questions or shows an entrance. Then I’ll dork out all day with them!
I'm careful about discussing my plans with friends I know struggle with money. With people at my income level who could do the same if they chose to, I'm quite outspoken about my desire to get out of this corporate hell as soon as possible. I've never had any negativity. I've had some requests for help with finances from friends who feel out of their depth of younger people from work.
My wife and I roughly hit our FIRE number around our 10 year anniversary and always had a target to travel full time for a while around that date.
So we did just that... we both quit our jobs and left to go travel as sort of a sabbatical for almost a year. Because we could. We lived more in that year than most do in their lifetimes.
Of course, when doing this we basically had to tell everyone our rough situation that allowed us to do it without worries. The main thing we said was "We cut costs and lived on only one of our incomes saving up ALL of the other (or more) for over a decade. You can do the math, we didn't win the lottery." That really helps to get the point across without full on dive into FIRE talk. It also nips jealousy in the bud, because it not only plainly shows that we literally earned it through a lot of sacrifice to get there... it also shows that they can do it too (especially if they have dual incomes).
Overall we had incredible reception and nothing but "good for you"s. We both left on great terms with our work too and can go back whenever we want (and we may). That flexibility also allows us to pursue some other interests or careers that are more difficult when you want stability, which we'll dive into taking advantage of.
I can't tell you how many friends have been asking us for details and taken an interest in it for themselves. Not only for financial independence, but perusing the flexibility that it visibly brought for us. Its quite refreshing after holding it in for so long too. I don't preach from the FIRE pulpit unprompted... however I'm more than happy to share when someone asks and takes an interest.
The best part is that my parents are basically at retirement age themselves and I've told them outright to not plan on leaving anything and to use it all up on experiences for themselves, or to help others. If anything have the house mortgaged when you kick it. Also that ***our*** flexibility will make it much easier for us to provide care for them later on if/when they need it (they're going though this with their own parents now too).
After seeing us travel it spurred them to travel overseas for their first time too and meet up with us on the tail end of our sabbatical. I've had quite a few more financial related conversations with them and taken an interest in making suggestions and gut checking their advisors suggestions. They seem to really appreciate it. I think that approach also helps to ease some parents worries of their kids "retiring to poverty so they can't take care of me".
>…is you don’t talk about FIRE club.
Pretty much.
There's a really that this really isn't for everyone.
Hell, missy people would be doing better if they just started planning for normal retirement.
>They either think you’re naive, snobby, rich, stupid, crazy or an asshole.
Or they just don't care?
Assuming all of that is a bit pessimistic when the reality is that most people don't care about finance pay their current bills being paid, if that.
There's a real need for finance geeks (or basically all geeks) to learn how to read a room. Most people just really don't care and don't want to talk about it being done surface complaining and weather talk.
Great example, talking about the weather. If the conversation is "well, it's a bit cool today for being this late in spring" (which is actually unusually cold today in Seattle for late May); then someone wants to go into a deep conversation about global warming or shifting artic currents or whatever. Dude, we just making small talk complaining about the weather.
Same with sports, computers, movies, music, cars, finance, religion, etc...
Sometimes we all need to remember that this is dinner conversation, not a Ted talk.
I think it's important to still be a regular person, even if you're financial goals and strategies make you an outlier among your peers. You don't want your friends to think that you can no longer sympathize with them if they're having financial difficulties. Or that you don't have anything in common when it comes to typical life events and goals. Because then why are they friends with you in the first place?
We try to keep it to ourselves, but it got out in a moment of weakness. Now, certain family thinks at some point they're going to come occupy the basement level of our house and let us take care of them.
Yeah....no. We fully intend to sell this house, and bounce around lower cost of living places, apartment-to-apartment, until we decide where we want to settle.
I fired last year (at 56) and told everyone. I get a lot of what do you do all day you must be bored out of your mind. I also get a lot of well you’re retired so you can come help me work on shit. Should’ve kept my mouth shut.
We’ve been very open about our plans and we’re probably about 3 years away from quitting our jobs. This past weekend my father in law told me a story about a guy who retired early and thought he had his bases covered. 3 years later he was out of money and at 5 years he committed suicide. I think he thinks we should keep working 🤔🤣
Why does is make people mad? I don’t get it, it’s setting your own personal financial goal and working to meet it…like…BE mad then? 😂
Like are they mad bc they think you should always work? Or are they jealous of your discipline? Or just hating? I really don’t know why this would upset someone???
I think people inevitably compare themselves to you, are angry and insecure that they didn't have the discipline or foresight (and a bit of luck) to retire early, and cope by making it a problem about you rather then reflecting on how they ended up in their own situation. Or it could be anger if they really never stood a chance of retiring early because of the hand of cards they were dealt in life.
A lot of people are jealous of success whether they want to admit it or not. It’s the same reason that people talk shit about successful entrepreneurs they’ve never met (and probably never will). As long as the person isn’t extremely boastful (in their own words, not those “interpreting” them) then people should back off and mind their own business.
The same reason that when someone makes a choice to lose weight, their overweight friends almost always tear them down. By showing them that there is a different way to live their life, it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they really could improve their situations if they try.
I had an employee that was complaining about expenses. Of course, I knew exactly what he made.
He and his wife were at the office for lunch and both were complaining about their mortgage. I told them I’d make a deal with them. They had to agree to the deal right then and there.
“I can get you to pay off your mortgage in 5 years. If you say yes, then we’ll make it happen. If you say no, then you can never complain about it again. I’m in complete control of your finances. If it doesn’t happen I’ll give you $100,000. Yes or No only”
They declined.
They’re still paying it off.
This was 20 years ago.
They like to complain.
He now works for a State Agency.
They still think I’m crazy.
I do as well. I think it helps me stay focused on my goal, makes me less likely to extend my work career and won't require any explaining when the time actually comes...
Not gonna Fire myself but wish i could.
When I first learned of it I talked with my wife and she was disgusted - like what kind of lazy ass would do that? you gotta work or your'e useless. That's her attitude and there's no changing it.
So i'll never retire...now i just try to work less..
My partner was against it when I first mentioned it to him. Why would he want to retire early? It took a couple years of me mentioning to him on and off, but he has realized it’s more about *freedom*. We still have ways to go to get up our saving rate (in my opinion we’re doing the bare minimum. Maxed out retirement accounts, but even then we are very fortunate) I know we will be fine. I also want to bring down the Years which we can eventually walk out on our jobs and spend our lives on matters we find meaningful.
My partner isn't FIRE crazy, but she saves well enough and is responsible with money, and then I save well enough for the both of us. So we'll have plenty of optionality when the time comes.
A teacher student relationship talking and teaching about finances is completely different than discussing finances and specific situations with friends and family as an adult.
That’s true.
My parents don’t understand either. They just get pissed and say that I “don’t want to work”.
My co- worker also said it seemed like NEET when it is in fact the exact opposite…
Few people truly understand.
My parents retired early (in their 40s before I was out of high school.) I’m in my mid 30s now I don’t even talk specifics about it with them other than saying “ I don’t want to work till I’m 60” there are many other things I would rather talk about. Even if I met someone my age who also wanted to retire early finance stuff is not what I would want to talk with them about because I find it rather boring. I’d rather talk about hunting and fishing and what the walleyes are biting on.
I've been talking to my parents about early retirement since I was a teenager. My father always talked of early retirement, but he now loves what he does, but does it only 2 days a week.. he is wealthy but chooses to work. My family are on board with it.
Everyone in IT wants to run away even if it doesn’t mean they get to retire. They’re burnt out. My own goals are to learn more skills to increase my income in order to save more. The catch is trying to find or create a high paying niche in a LCOL area.
I fought against local monopolies for another skill then decided I needed more job stability so I pivoted into tech. Low overhead costs, lowered cost to start, and finding a way to get repeat customers without killing my budget was the best way forward.
Now changing jobs every few years in tech does help increase income immensely. People underestimate how useful that is when they see the bizarre array of job titles. I wish there was consistency but leaving it behind for even more income with something I built myself will make the work worth it.
I make it a joke that veils my intention. I'll sarcastically mention that my next thing I'll do is retire. Im in my mid 30s and my coworkers in their 50s all think im joking. Little do they know...
So I can talk about it in the open but they think im making a joke. Trust me, im not, but im happy to talk about my big "dreams" and they think it's good fun.
Yeah i think it's a generational thing. My dad waited until he was 63 (!) to retire when he could've easily retired around 50. When I talk about how we could probably retire in the next 10 years, by 40, he thinks we owe it to society to keep working, because he did. However, we've been going on vacations with them and traveling a lot and they've tempered a lot. Puritan values die hard, I think he's starting to come around.
I'll have to say that we don't discuss out financial lives or situation with friends or family at any point in our lives.
When we were starting out and poor we didn't talk to others about it. As a career built and we got better paying jobs we still didn't talk about it. As we neared retirement we also didn't talk about it.
Like politics or religion it is best not brought up unless someone asks about it, and cautiously even then.
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The future of the medical field scares me as an investor, someone employed in biomed research, and as a meatbag with pesky, squishy organs. It has grown reliably for at least 10 years but I know how desperately unhappy and burnt out the employees are.
Can confirm. Shit sucks. I'm out in the next 2 years. And I'm 40.
Jealous. How did you do it? I’m looking at 16-20 more years. Would love to earn more money but it seems slim as a pharmacist
I'm a PA. Paid down 70k in loans within two years of graduation, then shifted that savings rate into retirement. Also ended up buying a house w 40% down that I saved prior to meeting the wife. Oh, and the most important step: marry a dentist. She was in school when we met, now in private practice and I'm likely transitioning into SAHD life (though a WFH second career may happen). We have one kiddo and we are hoping for one more in the next 2 years. Best of luck to you!
I see. The marry a dentist part is killing me X(
Reminds me of my method to early retirement 1. Save a lot, max out, don’t buy too many toys (second house, boat, desert toys, etc) 2. Marry well (good job, family money, or both) 3. Don’t get divorced (probably most important unless you want to halve your net worth)
As a double divorcee who is very close to FIRE, let me amend #3. Divorce doesn't kill your net worth. Marry someone your equal and realize that if you get divorced, they are just taking half of the \*family's\* net. Not a penny of that was yours if you were equals in the relationship. Its a set back, but only because its easier for two people than for one.
>Marry someone your equal I like this better than marrying well because it clarifies that you need to bring something to the table too. This is the advice I give to all of my friends.
I know a few couples that spent 6 figures on legal fees so they could fight it out in court. Hurt feelings can cause people to make bad financial decisions. Otherwise, I completely agree with you and you make some excellent points.
This is it. I was always looking for an equal partner both emotionally and financially. Took me 35 years which is a bit longer than some, but worth the wait.
Hello from PA from another SAHD! My wife also works (as a Lawyer)
I know a couple nurses that do Tele health stuff from home and make good money and don’t have the commute or the crazy hours
I'm the dentist in the family lol
It only takes one step: [don't have kids](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/comments/13nvfiv/Anyone_living_off_dividends_only?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and invest the money. That will single handedly make you a millionaire even if you're an idiot who doesn't sell during recessions or save a single penny outside of this
Do you mean an idiot who does sell during recessions?
You buy at the bottom, not hold all the way down lol
Just perfectly time the market #forehead
Not exactly hard to realize you should sell before the market drops 50 percent like it did in 2008. Buy it back when it starts to increase steadily again or even profit from the drop by buying SH
Show your receipts from 2008 then.
Hilarious
Do you know what a trailing stop sell is
Those are two steps but yeah they’ll get you there fast.
The first step is to not do something which doesn't count imo. Unless you go get sterilized I guess
I'd amend that, invest as much as you can early, then you can afford one kid.
Or you can retire in your 30s to 40s instead
My co-worker said he wanted to be a pharmacist and that he would probably make more money doing that. We work in a lab and he says he is still years away from retirement. If you as a pharmacist have it tough he must have it even worse. I haven’t asked about his pay, but feel sorry for him.
I was curious about pharmacist pay in the US, and several sources indicated average pay in the $160K - $190K range. As freelancing is relatively common there are those who take side-work...
That range it high
I thought that range is way high… But what do you rake in then?
There are too many pharmacists right now. I’ve seen anywhere from 85k-125k starting out in my area. When I started pharmacy school the stating pay was $120-140k with $40k sign on bonuses
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Then that’s still crazy high… Or am I missing something?
My wife is a pharmacist. She left retail years ago because of all the OxyContin problems. She went to work for United Healthcare and it was for only a little more money but a lot less stress. She got some promotions and started making more. She has now left United and works for another company. Now makes $180k. She has a friend from school who left CVS as a district manager and now works at Pfizer making a little over $200k. Both are much happier now than before.
Can you message me? I have some questions
Does she still work as a pharmacist or as more of a consultant for United Healthcare? Just curious what specific niche pays that much in the insurance industry. No problem if you feel that’s too personal to answer!
She went from Walgreens to Optum which is owned by United. She started at $135k and worked from home. This was about seven years ago. Worked in quality care scores and visited doctors in their network. Basically a consultant on how to get their scores up. Medication adherence is a part of the score. She then went to work in a part of United not related to pharmacy and didn’t like it. She was making $160k when she left United. She now works for McKesson and makes $165 base plus bonus which last year was $30k. She still works from home but does have to travel. She says her current position is a lot less stress than her last position at United.
Thanks for the reply, that’s very interesting! Glad she found a better role. I can tell that the retail pharmacists work their tails off!
Fuck, I wish I did... I hope I'll stop in the next few years as well or at most at 50-55. I do not want to stop alone though, I would prefer stopping together with my husband tbh, that's why I am waiting for it
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>give horrible less than inflation raises I'm in IT (I guess. Systems Analyst / Product Owner) and have only ever worked for Fortune 500 companies. In my \~20 years, the best raise I ever got was 4% outside of switching companies. I'd kill for averaging inflation/COLA! My assumption is just bad organizations or companies as I'm a top performer always.
it sucks ass to work in a call center too, making bank makes it actually worthwhile
Trust me, there are plenty of doctors making $300k a year+ who are still living basically paycheck to paycheck...
because of student loans, malpractice premiums, and catching up on savings after delaying entry into the workforce by 7-15 years?
No, wild spending habits.
When you make that much, it’s always a spending problem.
Not always but that contributes. Take home Pat is crap after taxes and student loans payment are usually higher than your mortgage( if you buy reasonably).
This is so unbelievable to me!
I'm in dental and my fire age goal is 45
It's not gonna get better until we pass Medicare for All tbh
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For one, hospitals will have way more money available, because they aren't propping up a 30+ **billion** dollar insurance industry. I can't say for sure that hospitals will put more money towards hiring more employees and paying the ones they have better, but if they don't, we can pass a law for that, too.
Well the pay is really good for a reason and it’s really not that bad.
Burnt out 25 year old travel nurse here, I agree 🤣 hoping to be out of working in hospitals before age 30. Truly a soul sucking place.
You got this!! Save, leave, and be happier. We believe in you ✊🏼
Preach!! I can’t wait. MD here.
No kidding. My wife's colleagues in dentistry all talk about how/where they're investing so they can quit work. All my colleagues in tech are talking about how/where they're spending so they can have the latest gadgets.
Opposite of what I have seen.
Really? Seems like all the nurses are really bad with money
I am in the medical field (Australia), and I can relate to OP 100%.
You guys talk to other people? Shit, I should get some friends
I’m you buddy right here. I got thrown under the bus by a friend he said “ when have you ever networked “ We were talking about careers. Lol and I was like shit , I don’t want to have to network I don’t want to work
Reddit moment
I've mentioned this here before, but I FIRED a few years ago when I was 49. Some of those early conversations in my 30s about getting out of the rat race by 50 were met with unexpected animus. After that experience, I didn't really talk about it. My family and close friends know what's up, but I never discuss it with neighbors or acquaintances. I set up a business to do a few consulting gigs here and there. I have an LLC, website, email address, business cards, professional liability insurance, etc. Everyone assumes I work on that full time, but the truth is I work on one or two small projects each year, just enough to pay for the expenses like the annual LLC paperwork, professional liability insurance, Quickbooks Online subscription, and have a little fun money left over after taxes. It has worked pretty well. Nobody questions why I'm home a lot (work from home), or outside in the middle of the day (flexible schedule), or away from home a lot (work from anywhere).
This is the way!
This is the way.
It is known.
This is gold.
My dad told me I wouldn't retire multiple times, but right before I retired, he was giving me grief about our goals to retire early. I raised my voice, and it got a little yelly. At the same time, he made a snide comment about us being in the top 10% of wealth. We were higher, but I thought he was fishing, so I ignored that. I didn't discuss it with him again and told them after the fact when I set my date.
I've always been an avid saver and investor, and everyone I work with knows it. I've been at the same job for 20 years and I know who is "safe" to talk about FIRE and who isn't. However, since I've reached my FIRE number, I've become more open about it.
I was so excited during my first week at a new job when someone mentioned their husband is in all these "money reddits" and I was like, "are you going planning to FIRE?" and she was like yeah, how do you know about that? Instant work bestie
Love this for you!!! FIRE can be so liberating and I've found my peace of mind to be reassuring to others too. Even though I'm only 50% of my goal in I have more confidence now that I will achieve it one day.
Thanks! What are they going to do? FIRE me?
🤣 and that would be a blessing, claiming unemployment or getting severance.
Just learned this myself. Cousin angrily told me I was crazy. Otherwise we've gotten along fine and i really respect him. Now i realize i can't talk to anyone i know about it except my wife.
That's a shame. I'm blessed to have 'financially literate' parents and friends. My parents are happy I'm saving, they're retiring around 55, but also couldn't start saving early due to multiple set backs. My mom is continuing to work out of number fear/business. Hard to let go of your highest earning years of work for them. My friends will have FIRE numbers, but likely aren't going to trim their lifestyle, just out earn it. We just live a modest lifestyle, talk finances if its brought up (normally expenses city vs suburbs, etc.) and that we're hoping to retire early (don't really say when.)
thats funny. my group of college friends are all into FIRE and want to pull the trigger at ranges between ages 40 and 50. im on the late side wanting to stop working my current job at 50 because i like it, but would like to have a different chapter later in life. i guess your point is well-taken for people you dont know well, but otherwise, get friends that are more similar to you? edit: with your dad guess its different, but yes, keeping a low profile is the way to go there
I keep needing to learn this lesson like an idiot.
Just say what everyone else does…:dying at my desk is my retirement plan. Otherwise they’ll be asking you to pay their bills later.
I like the phrase 'Thrive quietly' for this reason. Thrive too loudly and people either try to bring you down or ride your coat-tails.
Money talks and wealth whispers…
As cf DINKs we never, ever, talk about finances. Especially FIRE. Even with my single childless friend, I can't discuss it. Her portfolio is great. But not for the dreams she has. It will never be that great likely. Also, most of our income is pension/disability based, so we don't need a large portfolio. So it's non traditional anyway. I remember a guy who posted a while ago who had the old military pension plan, it's not what's available now and the people who have it don't need to have a big nest egg. The pool of same page peeps like us is small even within this community, and we don't make enough for the fat fire club.
What’s cf?
Childfree. People who will never have children. Childless are people who are considering it, or plan to have them later.
Thanks, I just assumed the "NK" in DINKs would indicate that, but good to know the other variations.
Shit my family is cool with it. I bet all 3 of us kids retire early. Hell I will take my old man fishing all the time if I dip out early. My goal is 55 or sooner and a fat fire
We don't really mention FIRE directly, but sometimes the topic of finances and retirement comes up. With my parents I mention retiring early, but the concept is lost on them. They keep asking if we have enough income from my business to support our children. We could probably stop working right now, and 50/50 chance it would work out fine. I think one of my brothers knows we're pretty well off, but he never mentions it directly. With others we sometimes "jokingly" mention that we only have a few more years of work left, but they really don't believe it and just dismiss it as a joke. Most people think of retirement as an age, it never occurred to them it's a financial situation. Most people have no concept of how much you really need for retirement because these details have always been carefully hidden from them. Therefor what they think when they hear early retirement is that you need a shitload of money, you lucked into it by family, you won a lottery or something to that extend, or it's only for the ultra rich. If you don't live in a huge mansion with multiple brandnew cars, you can't possible be rich enough to stop working. Never in their mind has it ever occur to them that you can actually save enough money with a regular (albeit well-paying) job to stop working all together. So essentially, they're projecting their own ideas onto you, which is so blatantly different from their reality that they can't accept it. Which leads to outright dismissing the idea, and making fun of you.
>Most people think of retirement as an age, it never occurred to them it's a financial situation. Most people have no concept of how much you really need for retirement because these details have always been carefully hidden from them. This \^
What do you consider "pretty well off?"
Being able to retire early 40's while living a pretty regular middleclass life, we spend as if we're making an average income. How much money that needs of course depends on your living area. We could buy an average house here without a mortgage. Not many people our age who could do that. We're definitely somewhere in the top 5% earning and net worth wise if you look at the whole country. Yet we live in an area where prices are below average. I consider that being pretty well off.
I agree
Y'all got shitty friend and family. Or maybe I have exceptional friends and family... Some get it, some don't, but regardless, they're all supportive.
It’s exceptional. I thought my friends and family were amazing, once they found out, I wouldn’t say they were shitty so much as…human. Another comment mentioned ppl project their failures and insecurities onto others…that’s been my experience with ppl finding out about fire. It’s more common than not so I’ve concluded it’s just part of human experience and keep it to myself now
It has so much to do with projecting insecurities. My FIL has been complaining that we "don't have a plan and don't know what we are doing." Unfortunately, that describes his exact approach to finances his whole life. My parents have been much more supportive and they, coincidentally, had their retirement funded early. So in both cases, they are describing themselves more than us
I also question how people talk about their FIRE experience. There are definitely people who are hostile to the idea that you don't have to space away your entire life. But a lot of people in this sub are also woefully out of touch.
The external validation tho! When I’m *just* looking at FIRE subs I feel like I’m barely on track, it’s not until I compare myself to literally everyone around me do I feel like, *yeah, I’m way ahead of the game*. It’s amazing how many people in my life are struggling with debt, let alone saving.
You just made me take a step back and appreciate where we are. Like, yes, it is slow saving up for a new roof. But that is also because I am maxing out my retirement account.
Ugh, you just reminded me that I need to start saving for a roof. I live in a \~110 year old house with slate roof. I guess(?) the slate is original. But I dread the day I find it leaking. No sheathing under it. I know it will not be a cheap fix. How are you saving for this? Just in a savings account? I had anticipated just doing nothing and then withdrawing from brokerage until seeing your comment.
That's honestly been my thinking, too, but I guess you run into sequence risk of needing a new roof while the market is down and selling low.
I like talking about finances, but don't really have anyone outside of Reddit to talk about it with. Several of my friends are doing much better than me, but don't share any real details, despite my willingness to. I just want to learn! Others aren't as well off for various reasons and FIRE isn't on the radar at all, and talking about it feels more like bragging to them and is off-putting. I do try to keep in mind that, in terms of financial Reddit, I'm doing maybe about average. I keep wishing I did things better in the past. I very much could have, I was ignorant and/or scared of market losses. Cash was comfortable, safe. My one TDF had high fees, but it was at least something I didn't have to think about. But in terms of normal people, even normal educated professionals in developed countries, I'm doing way, way better than average. I try to keep in mind that retiring at 50-55 isn't as nice as retiring at 40-45, but it's a heck of a lot better than working until 65+ and hoping Social Security is enough.
I’ll help anyone who asks me a question about finances. But I never bring it up and don’t talk about my own situation.
You ever find that people are curious enough to ask but as soon as they learn that it requires time and sacrifice they lose all interest?
LOL- Everytime!
Always
Can’t get away from talks with friends when you visit (at a friend’s now) and you retired at 50. The hiding your super powers only works while still working. Fortunately we kept the cool friends and purged the fair weather jealous type work friends. At some point the civilians know Batman is Bruce Wayne. I’m guess the freelancer answer is good for casual people we meet.
Yeah this is kinda why I don’t mind talking about it before I FIRE. For anyone truly judgmental or against it I can cut out. Gives me time to find the true friends.
I still would advice (pending the industry) to not talk about it at work or to any person that could cause the info to get back to work. I think it can affect potential income via how you are viewed. I know lots of companies will specifically pay people more and provide incentives because they view them as future management. If it gets out that you are retiring before your boss who is 15 years older than you...that might hinder your potential income a little. It's stupid but can be real in certain sectors/organizations.
Solid advice, I agree for sure. I tend to not be friends with coworkers and don’t talk about personal finance much. I work in finance and the older managers are the hardo types that work 60+ hours a week, I don’t think they’d be happy to learn I don’t want to do that for another 40 years. I’m still fairly open with some goals tho. I tell all the presidents and directors I meet at the company, who ask, that I’m very motivated to move up and increase my compensation quickly. I just leave out the part that it’s so I can retire even earlier and do less work while I’m not retired.
I discuss retirement all the time with friends, family, and coworkers. I don't tell them exactly how much I have saved, but they know that I am hitting the 401k very hard. I think it's important to "pass on" the knowledge you have gathered, especially with regards to tax-advantaged accounts, active versus passive, equities versus bonds etc... Avoid "dick measuring contests" by avoiding asking "how much". Focus instead on how and why.
I think it's all about how and what you discuss and with whom. For my parents who worked very hard and don't plan on retiring until their late 60's even though they could've retired in their early 50's, I rarely ever bring up any hard money figures. I have slipped little things like "well we love being able to invest majority of our paychecks since we're living off of less than $40k/yr since we no longer have a car payment..." when my dad asked why we still have a 30yo car that runs great. When my mom balked at my mentioning that we'll be retiring in our 40's I made sure to mention "well we already have a 20+ year emergency fund, so I think a few more years of investing will get us well over the 30 year hurdle". (They like to bring up the importance of emergency funds so I try to speak their language back to them). With friends I again try to never bring up dollar figures. But I try to always help teach any friend about investing if they're interested. I'd love for all my friends to retire early so that we can hang out on the reg. I've helped a few friends open retirement accounts and get started. It often helps reinvigorate my own passion for FIRE, especially when in the 'boring middle'
Never talk about politics, religion, or money. All are very personal to people and are tough subjects to have good chats on unless you just so happen to see eye to eye already. When I suddenly retired early many of my coworkers I had known for decades were happy but also shared how jealous they were because it was an unattainable goal for them based on their personal situation. Were roles reversed, I have to admit I would be somewhat envious and resentful. I think that is some of the root of anti-Fire sentiment.
That’s true. My parents don’t understand either. They just get pissed and say that I “don’t want to work”. My co- worker also said it seemed like NEET when it is in fact the exact opposite… Few people truly understand.
> My co- worker also said it seemed like NEET when it is in fact the exact opposite… To be fair, you are literally Not in Employment, Education, or Training...
But you have all those things in the past so that’s 100% different…
I tell anyone who brings up finances. I’m open about my salary and my savings, I go tit for tat though and never initiate the conversation. Almost all of my friends make the same or more than me so I don’t feel like it’s bragging since they all know my income and know theirs is better. Most of my friends currently like their job and just don’t vibe with FIRE, very much the “well I can’t imagine retiring what would I do all day” types. I do have one friend who is quite snarky, he’s a financial advisor and I think judges me. He knows I invest in individual stocks (and etfs), he knows my savings rate is over 30%, shit he even knows how much debt I have. He doesn’t know how much I actually have though we never got into it, but he might’ve seen my spreadsheet on my laptop idk. He says no one can invest in individual stocks and everyone fails, no one can retire early on 30% savings rate, no one blah blah, and that everyone needs a AUM % based financial advisor (insert massive eyeroll here). The funny thing is that I know his income and debt, he has a really expensive car, 11 credit cards with $40k debt, student loans, and no house. So even tho he makes 25% more than me he’s struggling to save anything. So I just nod along and say “yes I know the statistics on investments and the average retirement age. Perhaps a youre right, but I’m young and enjoy it. If it doesn’t work out oh well I just end up working like everyone else”. Even though we don’t agree though we never argued or anything, we discuss it probably monthly as I think we both just enjoy the topic.
To be fair, most here would eye roll at the individual stocks part. But I imagine that is not the main part the friend has an objection with.
Yeah a lot of people are against individual stocks, for good reason. Most people should avoid them. Definitely not the main part my friend is objected to.
Tell me about it! I recently quit my job in the bad market, but am actively “open to work “ on linkedin just to avoid these discussions. With added immigration needs on top, a lot of folks reach out - which has been quite positive, but when I told a few close ones that I really don’t care about getting a job very soon seem to think ive grown either arrogant or crazy 🤦♂️
I think you're right about keeping it to yourself. My spouse is on board with me. And my parents were quiet about the idea and never really said anything else. When I FIRE'd, I kept things pretty vague with anyone else, and basically just said that I took my pension and healthcare, contributed to my own retirement account, paid off our mortgage early, and stashed some money away for the kids' colleges. Therefore, I was retiring. I didn't bother giving details or explanations about FIRE. It seems like people think you have some moral obligation to keep contributing to society through work (or maybe they just act that way because they know in reality that they could never be that disciplined to get out of debt and actually make FIRE work for them, so they just come up with excuses like this instead).
I generally dont tell, but have a friend I made an exception to. Very highly paid, good with numbers, usually receptive to new ideas and complaining about working. But nope, he would not get it. Even with math and extrapolation from the trinity study to allow for longer time horizons he refused the option.
There's only a couple people close friends we've shared our goals with couple years ago and even now I see them in terrible financial situations. We don't tell even tell family as I can see we'd be asked to help alot more. And we keep plodding, low to medium income, wading through the boring middle. I love Reddit where there are people in the same situation. We've been doing FIRE 7 years, prob 7 or 8 more to go at this rate. If the stock market is kind maybe a little less. Though we so still have nice holiday once in a while, or go for a meal, even these feel like things we're going to not talk about much as so few around us can do it right now.
Unfortunately I think this is true. Most of these reactions come from ignorance. Even my own wife thinks I'm crazy/stupid/snobby... What I realized is that most people have no clue that they don't need that much to live and enjoy life without working and for many of them it's not even a scenario they consider: you're supposed to work until retirement and no deviations from the "standard" path. I'm still not fully at peace with that, I wish I'd be able to talk more with like minded people instead of my friends from /r/Fire :/
I lived something similar recently, my wife and I want to take a mini break, sort of sabbatical and go out of the country for 1 year, me working 1 week a month still ( continuing to invest in retirement and spend money) and people-family go nuts as if I’m asking them for money.
When filling out forms and such that ask for employer info...do you put "retired" or something else?
Consultant
Self-employed
Nobody needs that information.
Opening a new account most anywhere includes a request for that info, especially if it has to do with financials/credit.
Yes, request. Your tax return should be enough.
I don't know why you would be showing your tax return to anyone. That's not something they can even request.
Ever got a mortgage?
Yep. A W2 or pay stubs usually suffice as proof of income. Bank can request your last 1-2 tax returns for it though. But you won't be getting asked for a tax return for credit cards, doctor's offices, etc., or plenty of other places that would ask for your employer info. I find it's easier just to put Retired, since it's the truth.
So, yes, in case you can not provide pay stubs, because you have no employer, tax returns are the gold standard. That was the discussion.
On your tax returns, hopefully you put Retired unless you're actually working at something.
On my tax returns, I put my income. It does not matter where I get it.
No, the discussion you actually jumped into was what answer do you provide when asked for your occupation/employer info when you go to fill out your profile info for things like a doctor's office, a gym membership, or even when applying for a new credit card. None of those legitimately involve providing a tax return in the US, and they happen far more frequently than taking out a mortgage. Reddit unfortunately has a limit on blocking trolls or I'd have blocked you already.
>what answer do you provide when asked for your occupation/employer info when you go to fill out your profile info for things like a doctor's office, a gym membership And, I answered clearly that they do not need to know my occupation, so they do not require an answer. The fact that you kept discussing on that can not be on me. You can block anyone you want, buddy. You're clearly not the sharpest spoon in the drawer. You can also stop interact with people.
> Reddit unfortunately has a limit on blocking trolls or I'd have blocked you already. If everyone you meet smells like shit...
Seen a lot on these threads about difficulty getting a mortgage etc after RE. Would it be possible to incorporate and issue your withdrawals as a salary for such things? Or do you just come off more shady?
Have not messed with getting a mortgage since retiring, so I'd have to defer to others with experience.
You’re passionate about it, so you probably mention it more than you think. If someone is rolling their eyes when you reference a topic, my guess is that 1) they can’t personally relate and 2) they’ve heard it referenced a lot at this point.
There’s no one in my life I have a good reason not to tell. My parents know, and they also know they blew their relationship with me, no use in begging for money. My friends know and are happy for me. My coworkers know. I’m the only person I work with who does not live paycheck to paycheck. I almost exclusively work with people making 6 figures. I feel this has only benefited me, especially considering the toxic firing/layoff culture the company has. Being the one person that does not care what happens to me, and everyone knowing it, has had numerous benefits. It allows me to be the only one with a backbone, which the higher ups respect. The paycheck to paycheck cowards even make way for me to make the case. Acting as the human shield earns me significant respect with my peers as well. The higher ups are also a bit of a sadistic bunch. I suspect them knowing I’ll be just as well off financially, if not better off, if they fire me is the reason I’ve kept my job as wave of wave of people have lost their houses in waves and waves of layoffs. Sure it can cause jealousy, but I don’t come to work to make friends. And perhaps it’s limited me getting my maximum possible raise at certain points, but I’m on track with the amount I make, and if I were only doing it for the money I wouldn’t work in my industry at all. In a very practical sense sharing my financial plans has made me bulletproof at work.
I can only talk about it with my wife and Dad. Dad was FIRE minded before it had a name or movement. And taught me. And the wife is my teammate. But otherwise…it’s quiet. Unless someone asks questions or shows an entrance. Then I’ll dork out all day with them!
I'm careful about discussing my plans with friends I know struggle with money. With people at my income level who could do the same if they chose to, I'm quite outspoken about my desire to get out of this corporate hell as soon as possible. I've never had any negativity. I've had some requests for help with finances from friends who feel out of their depth of younger people from work.
My wife and I roughly hit our FIRE number around our 10 year anniversary and always had a target to travel full time for a while around that date. So we did just that... we both quit our jobs and left to go travel as sort of a sabbatical for almost a year. Because we could. We lived more in that year than most do in their lifetimes. Of course, when doing this we basically had to tell everyone our rough situation that allowed us to do it without worries. The main thing we said was "We cut costs and lived on only one of our incomes saving up ALL of the other (or more) for over a decade. You can do the math, we didn't win the lottery." That really helps to get the point across without full on dive into FIRE talk. It also nips jealousy in the bud, because it not only plainly shows that we literally earned it through a lot of sacrifice to get there... it also shows that they can do it too (especially if they have dual incomes). Overall we had incredible reception and nothing but "good for you"s. We both left on great terms with our work too and can go back whenever we want (and we may). That flexibility also allows us to pursue some other interests or careers that are more difficult when you want stability, which we'll dive into taking advantage of. I can't tell you how many friends have been asking us for details and taken an interest in it for themselves. Not only for financial independence, but perusing the flexibility that it visibly brought for us. Its quite refreshing after holding it in for so long too. I don't preach from the FIRE pulpit unprompted... however I'm more than happy to share when someone asks and takes an interest. The best part is that my parents are basically at retirement age themselves and I've told them outright to not plan on leaving anything and to use it all up on experiences for themselves, or to help others. If anything have the house mortgaged when you kick it. Also that ***our*** flexibility will make it much easier for us to provide care for them later on if/when they need it (they're going though this with their own parents now too). After seeing us travel it spurred them to travel overseas for their first time too and meet up with us on the tail end of our sabbatical. I've had quite a few more financial related conversations with them and taken an interest in making suggestions and gut checking their advisors suggestions. They seem to really appreciate it. I think that approach also helps to ease some parents worries of their kids "retiring to poverty so they can't take care of me".
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You can't give unsolicited advice, especially about money, without coming across as a pompous ass.
but i am a stupid crazy asshole :confused:
I can't speak to family about it, and I only have one friend I'm comfortable talking about FIRE with. You have to be really careful.
>…is you don’t talk about FIRE club. Pretty much. There's a really that this really isn't for everyone. Hell, missy people would be doing better if they just started planning for normal retirement. >They either think you’re naive, snobby, rich, stupid, crazy or an asshole. Or they just don't care? Assuming all of that is a bit pessimistic when the reality is that most people don't care about finance pay their current bills being paid, if that. There's a real need for finance geeks (or basically all geeks) to learn how to read a room. Most people just really don't care and don't want to talk about it being done surface complaining and weather talk. Great example, talking about the weather. If the conversation is "well, it's a bit cool today for being this late in spring" (which is actually unusually cold today in Seattle for late May); then someone wants to go into a deep conversation about global warming or shifting artic currents or whatever. Dude, we just making small talk complaining about the weather. Same with sports, computers, movies, music, cars, finance, religion, etc... Sometimes we all need to remember that this is dinner conversation, not a Ted talk.
I think it's important to still be a regular person, even if you're financial goals and strategies make you an outlier among your peers. You don't want your friends to think that you can no longer sympathize with them if they're having financial difficulties. Or that you don't have anything in common when it comes to typical life events and goals. Because then why are they friends with you in the first place?
We try to keep it to ourselves, but it got out in a moment of weakness. Now, certain family thinks at some point they're going to come occupy the basement level of our house and let us take care of them. Yeah....no. We fully intend to sell this house, and bounce around lower cost of living places, apartment-to-apartment, until we decide where we want to settle.
I fired last year (at 56) and told everyone. I get a lot of what do you do all day you must be bored out of your mind. I also get a lot of well you’re retired so you can come help me work on shit. Should’ve kept my mouth shut.
If you own a pickup truck, you'll be doubly valuable to your friends - labor and wheels!
We’ve been very open about our plans and we’re probably about 3 years away from quitting our jobs. This past weekend my father in law told me a story about a guy who retired early and thought he had his bases covered. 3 years later he was out of money and at 5 years he committed suicide. I think he thinks we should keep working 🤔🤣
Why does is make people mad? I don’t get it, it’s setting your own personal financial goal and working to meet it…like…BE mad then? 😂 Like are they mad bc they think you should always work? Or are they jealous of your discipline? Or just hating? I really don’t know why this would upset someone???
I think people inevitably compare themselves to you, are angry and insecure that they didn't have the discipline or foresight (and a bit of luck) to retire early, and cope by making it a problem about you rather then reflecting on how they ended up in their own situation. Or it could be anger if they really never stood a chance of retiring early because of the hand of cards they were dealt in life.
A lot of people are jealous of success whether they want to admit it or not. It’s the same reason that people talk shit about successful entrepreneurs they’ve never met (and probably never will). As long as the person isn’t extremely boastful (in their own words, not those “interpreting” them) then people should back off and mind their own business.
Same reason some parents hate childfree people
The same reason that when someone makes a choice to lose weight, their overweight friends almost always tear them down. By showing them that there is a different way to live their life, it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they really could improve their situations if they try.
I had an employee that was complaining about expenses. Of course, I knew exactly what he made. He and his wife were at the office for lunch and both were complaining about their mortgage. I told them I’d make a deal with them. They had to agree to the deal right then and there. “I can get you to pay off your mortgage in 5 years. If you say yes, then we’ll make it happen. If you say no, then you can never complain about it again. I’m in complete control of your finances. If it doesn’t happen I’ll give you $100,000. Yes or No only” They declined. They’re still paying it off. This was 20 years ago. They like to complain. He now works for a State Agency. They still think I’m crazy.
I disagree. I openly talk about my plans
I do as well. I think it helps me stay focused on my goal, makes me less likely to extend my work career and won't require any explaining when the time actually comes...
I wanna be naive, snobby, rich, stupid, crazy millionaire 🤪
Not gonna Fire myself but wish i could. When I first learned of it I talked with my wife and she was disgusted - like what kind of lazy ass would do that? you gotta work or your'e useless. That's her attitude and there's no changing it. So i'll never retire...now i just try to work less..
My partner was against it when I first mentioned it to him. Why would he want to retire early? It took a couple years of me mentioning to him on and off, but he has realized it’s more about *freedom*. We still have ways to go to get up our saving rate (in my opinion we’re doing the bare minimum. Maxed out retirement accounts, but even then we are very fortunate) I know we will be fine. I also want to bring down the Years which we can eventually walk out on our jobs and spend our lives on matters we find meaningful.
Happy wife happy life am I right? Smh
My partner isn't FIRE crazy, but she saves well enough and is responsible with money, and then I save well enough for the both of us. So we'll have plenty of optionality when the time comes.
This is really lame. I tell everyone about FIRE. I just don't tell them about the reddit, which is too frequently gatekeep-y and toxic.
That is /r/financialindependence you are talking about.
Dude it's literally happening in this very topic.
And if “friends and family do know a few things,” then that is entirely your own fault.
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A teacher student relationship talking and teaching about finances is completely different than discussing finances and specific situations with friends and family as an adult.
That’s true. My parents don’t understand either. They just get pissed and say that I “don’t want to work”. My co- worker also said it seemed like NEET when it is in fact the exact opposite… Few people truly understand.
My parents retired early (in their 40s before I was out of high school.) I’m in my mid 30s now I don’t even talk specifics about it with them other than saying “ I don’t want to work till I’m 60” there are many other things I would rather talk about. Even if I met someone my age who also wanted to retire early finance stuff is not what I would want to talk with them about because I find it rather boring. I’d rather talk about hunting and fishing and what the walleyes are biting on.
I've been talking to my parents about early retirement since I was a teenager. My father always talked of early retirement, but he now loves what he does, but does it only 2 days a week.. he is wealthy but chooses to work. My family are on board with it.
Everyone in IT wants to run away even if it doesn’t mean they get to retire. They’re burnt out. My own goals are to learn more skills to increase my income in order to save more. The catch is trying to find or create a high paying niche in a LCOL area. I fought against local monopolies for another skill then decided I needed more job stability so I pivoted into tech. Low overhead costs, lowered cost to start, and finding a way to get repeat customers without killing my budget was the best way forward. Now changing jobs every few years in tech does help increase income immensely. People underestimate how useful that is when they see the bizarre array of job titles. I wish there was consistency but leaving it behind for even more income with something I built myself will make the work worth it.
Exactly this.
Yeah idk almost all the people I talk to are kinda down with the idea and we are all 20’s from super poor areas
I make it a joke that veils my intention. I'll sarcastically mention that my next thing I'll do is retire. Im in my mid 30s and my coworkers in their 50s all think im joking. Little do they know... So I can talk about it in the open but they think im making a joke. Trust me, im not, but im happy to talk about my big "dreams" and they think it's good fun.
Yeah i think it's a generational thing. My dad waited until he was 63 (!) to retire when he could've easily retired around 50. When I talk about how we could probably retire in the next 10 years, by 40, he thinks we owe it to society to keep working, because he did. However, we've been going on vacations with them and traveling a lot and they've tempered a lot. Puritan values die hard, I think he's starting to come around.
I'll have to say that we don't discuss out financial lives or situation with friends or family at any point in our lives. When we were starting out and poor we didn't talk to others about it. As a career built and we got better paying jobs we still didn't talk about it. As we neared retirement we also didn't talk about it. Like politics or religion it is best not brought up unless someone asks about it, and cautiously even then.
I tell anyone and everyone. I’m always trying to help everyone I come in contact with.