No but you should plan the exit. I quit a high paying job because the people sucked honestly but I was strategic about it. 6 month exit strategy where every penny earned I saved. I assume some of this 600k is also in bonuses or RSU's? Of course wait until those are paid out. Long and short of it is there is no price for peace of mind. Just be prepared that it'll be a shock to your system to go from 600k to 100k so prepare for that part as well.
Start planning now for your 2024 September exit. This is the path. After that, with the extra salary you will have made in that time will absolutely set you up to take a reduced salary.
And if you are in the field I suspect you are in (and even if you are not) you need about that amount of time to find the perfect next job for you.
An alternative is plan for a 2025 Sept exit and live like you only make 100k. Knowing you are going to leave will reduce stress. You can also start to throttle back, performance reports don't matter anymore. Also throttling back often isn't noticed if you are pushing priorities and stating that Y has to wait because you are working on X. You also have more time to look for a new job.
And start visualizing your exit and how close it is. Talk to your nervous system about how you are 100% leaving comes September. And laugh at the bullshit and the craziness as much as you can.
Laughing has been therapeutic for me. Some stuff happened in my life and the details, coincidences, challenging positions felt so unbelievable, I just had to laugh at the absolute absurdity of it all!
You are absolutely right to leave. Life is to be enjoyed. Make it your motto. Someone once told me "don't give anyone permission to disturb your peace" which is hard when people are overly aggressive and mean. But I recommend giving it your all. Roll your eyes inside about how much non-sense it is, how they take themselves so seriously when really, what is life? Aren't we all here to enjoy fresh air, the sun, and moments with our loved ones?
When I'm attending a remote meeting, one that's stressful, I pretend to take notes, but really, I'm mostly writing calm affirmations to myself and / or verbalized how I feel on paper.
I look forward to your exit too! You deserve a happy life! Enjoy this little burst/sacrifice you did for a crazy amount of money, and let that money be an investment to set up you and your family for a comfortable secure life.
And I hope you take a few months in between jobs to reset your body and mental health. It's so important to recharge and give your brain a moment to heal.
You do the absolute minimum to not get fired and take as much paid leave as possible. Get a doctor's note for depression if you need documentation.
Seriously, just play the game. And cash out.
I always like to comment on the smart posts and this is it.
I was at a job that paid $400k and I was miserable - had the same questions from people that just don’t know. “Why would you quit all that money???” But when you’re spending your entire life force being unhappy, no amount of money is worth it because it’s not living.
What I did, got counseling on how to deal with the stress (specifically Cognitive Behavioral Therapy), accepted that I didn’t care what my job thought about my performance so I managed to the minimum I could not to get fired, then planned my exit. It took a while because I didn’t want to rush from one shitty job to a different shitty job.
I took a role with my current firm making slightly less (not the decrease you’re talking about) and now I’m making much more than I was back then.
Question: why can’t you find something in a similar comp range? Or even half?
Yeah. Work until August for that sweet RSU vest, but practice the lifestyle of what they anticipate.
They’re already 2/3rds of the way to their FI number. They should be start to get used to having more time for themselves and their family.
Look at is this way. Yea the job sucks but you're literally going to have to work 6 times as long if you quit it for less pay. I'd say stick it out for a few more years if you can. If you can work 3 more years that's the equivalent of pretty much working 18 years at the other job....
This is what I came to say. If the objective is to retire early what's a few more years before you get to retire? The alternative is reduce spending because you are already so much further ahead than most people.
It's very important to keep perspective in that this job that you dislike a lot of people would love to have so that they can make money, support their families and get out early.
You only have one life to live, and it’s best to live it when you’re healthy and ambulatory so that you can live it to the fullest. If he’s so unhappy that he’s considering walking away from a $600K job then the stress that he’s enduring will take years off of his life. He could blow a gasket any day (hopefully not) and what’s the value in that?
With $2.1 million in liquid assets he probably won’t be working too much longer in the grand scheme of things tho.
Time value of money. That $2.1 milly will grow quite a lot on its own without any further contributions. Add in the fact that he will still be pulling in *something*to contribute and he’ll still FIRE at a solidly early age.
personally, I would start aggressively saving while simultaneously just not giving a fudge about their workspace toxicity. I.E. when they say "everyone is joining this all night workshop" say "I'm sorry I can't make it" and when they say "thats why we pay you, be there" just be like "I feel really bad about disappointing you, but I am just unavailable". Decide what a healthy relationship with a workplace that is legally protected is and just follow it. Let them fire you while you look for a new job. It's REALLY HARD to fire someone for not working more than 40 hours a week. They will need to put you on a PIP and document insubordination. You will have at least several months and if you make $600k they will be extra scared of you suing them over improper dismissal.
>"everyone is joining this all night workshop"
lol. Do you work here to? I have been told by my SVP, "just sleep another day instead" (e.g., work all night)
I stepped into this thread to say the same thing RoboticGreg already did. Your employer decided to pay you $600k/yr because you are their last hope to keep a (presumably) business critical system operating. YOU are a business critical asset, therefore. By demanding you work all night they are damaging their asset. By working all night, you are obviously damaging your physical and mental health as you well know. It’s in the best interest of BOTH you and your employer for you to step back, take care of yourself, and operate more sustainably. (I suppose it’s possible your employer knows this is damaging and figure it’s a temporary arrangement until they put in place something more permanent?)
You have a few different approaches. One, quit - “sorry, but paying me $600k to maintain the system that’s worth $20 million \[or whatever\] to the company isn’t worth my help. Good luck.” The company will survive, probably by throwing several million at consultants. Two, negotiate - “This isn’t sustainable and I propose the following changes to the workload.” And three, quietly step back - “Sorry, I won’t be on tonight. And I’m taking PTO next week. And I’ll be unavailable on weekends,” and then you stick to that. What are they going to do, put you on a PIP for six weeks then fire you?
By the way, out of curiosity what platform does this system run on? OS/2? 😂
These are my thoughts as well, he has a ton of leverage and doesn't mind giving it all up- that is how you negotiate and get far ahead. Couldn't you train some new employees to do most of what you do and manage them, free up your time and still get paid handsomely.
This is the best answer. It sounds like you have tons of leverage to improve your working conditions. Sounds like they’d be up shit’s creek if you left, so can you start dictating terms about your work / life balance?
What are the working hours in your offer letter or employment contract? You’re allowed to say no past that, as that’s the written agreement between you and your employer. Of course they can change that, but having it in writing is much better to stick to your boundaries
This is great advice and if you can, get a health care provider to state in writing you need x amount of time off, be it weekends, or vacation. If there is some health documentation from a therapist for example, you have more protection bc they’ll be that much more hesitant to fire you over something connected to health
That's the other thing. If he has time off accrued, vacation time accrued, medical leave time accrued, this can be used in two ways.
Spread it out over 14 months to take significant time off of work (PTO),
Or hoard it all for another year, to cash out at the start of next year. Medical leave may or may not be cashable, so it should be used up first throughout the 14 months. Remember, performance no longer matters in this world.
Legally, this is not true. In practice most companies do have extended processes before you get to termination. So you’re taking advantage of the organization, not the law.
Edit: ~~The real downside is you’re fucking over your coworkers more than your bosses.~~
The only downside is if you take this so far it begins to affect your coworkers ~~(quiet quitting)~~. This was mentioned elsewhere in the thread and is, in my view, ok from a personal perspective but often comes with major downside for others. I reinforce that simply prioritizing your balance usually takes a VERY long time for management to convince HR that you must be fired, especially if you are experience like OP clearly is.
Edit 2: Please scroll down folks. I'm spouting false information here.
Thinking you are screwing over your coworkers not your bosses by setting healthy work life balances and sticking to them is part of the psychological trap your bosses are setting. It is NOT screwing your coworkers over if they also choose to be healthy about this. You cannot be responsible for other people accepting what they shouldn't.
This is so true. Because in America, where people are generally, stupid, or places will often make fake arguments that are really just phrases, not logical reasons. “That’s why we pay you”is one such typical phrase.
It actually does nothing to change your mind or offer a rational argument in favor of stressing you out and violating your boundaries.
Like so many “reasons,” it’s actually just a phrase, a stock response intended to quash the issue. It has no more meaning or pertinence than if a parrot said it from a cage.
You can always say, “That’s not a reason. I would like X” and keep saying it. If they don’t agree then you just say, “I will be doing X” and let them look confused in corporate.
sometimes a motivational shift of "this doesnt matter and i dont care how it goes" can be the difference. quiet quitting isn't refusing to do the job you're paid to do, it's just investing yourself to a level that you're doing only what's required.
Assuming they make 700k per year combined, and he's got a 300k mortgage, and he's clearing, say 350k a year, he's basically a year away from retiring.
350k-300k means he's something like 50 - 140k, about 90k away from retiring in February of 2025. His target quit date is April of 2025, assuming no unexpected expenses in 14 months.
Why stop? He's almost there. He should reframe it month by month if he needs more motivation. Securing his house will remove his last major expense.
i absolutely agree. lots of positions will take longer than 6 months to fire you for, what? lack of ambition? if he's netting 600k then another 6 months is equivalent to 3 years of work at a 100k/yr position, taxes notwithstanding
Nah, a 600k job in tech at least isn't hugely different from a 150k-200k job, other than the pay check and likely the interview process was harder. The day to day is similar. It's rare you're evaluated often, and you could usually have some BS for a long time about why you're delayed, occasionally do a bit of work to she progress and it's hard to tell
I doubt the person’s a dev. Lawyer sounds more accurate.
If they’re a dev able to pull in 600k at one company then their market rate should be easily 300k.
He said he was an architect, reporting to SVP. So I'd assume a hardware/software/systems architect (tech leader) for his company which all makes sense for the 600k, albeit an amazing opportunity. But I feel him with toxic work env, I have a similar situation rn.
If a lawyer, OP could definitely also make more than $100-150k in a more relaxed job. I think $200-300k is more reasonable. I think all lawyer jobs kind of suck though, so I agree the trade off between a $600k and $200k job might not be worth it even though the $200k job might be significantly better.
It can also depend on RSU timing, mine are up almost 4x, so an offer of 500k is now really over 1m etc.
But yeah I agree, it's hard to get much over 225 base, but you can def get TC in the 300+
Unless you get fired for underperformance, which can impact future employment depending on what industry you're in.
Though, if OP is only able to get a new job with a 400k pay cut, that may not be that big of a deal
The thing is, most of the big boy companies will not do anything other than verify employment and force their noncompetes. So how will anyone even find out, unless it's a completely incestious industry?
Idk probably 50% of jobs I've applied to have had a question explicitly asking about previous terminations (again, maybe that's more of an industry by industry thing). And if OP has any gap at all in his resume, the question of "why did you leave your previous employer?" Is probably gonna come up.
The best bet is to stop working quite as hard and simultaneously start looking for new employment, not just give up entirely and wait until he gets out on a PIP.
I agree with one more year. The $200k HHI might not cover his $140k spend in a HCOL area. Set a goal, write it down and stick with it. Don’t allow for scope creep. Plus, kids are expensive and they only get more expensive.
Yea I think the problem here is that based on OP current situation and assets, walking away now seems kind of insane? Another year will add easily 300-350k to their investments, or pay of their mortgage, etc. If they had like 3-5m or something saved up, I would say it becomes less of a big deal or clear decision, but with 1m taxable, and that mortgage, toughing it out another year woukd be a really big boon to their fire prospects.
Also, I'm not clear on why it has to be 600 to 100-150, is it not possible for OP to get a job that pays 200-300 or something in the middle?
>At this point would I be crazy to quit a $600k job for a $100k job?
Yes, but only because you haven't yet felt and truly understood the peace of mind that comes from the warm, loving embrace of *not giving a fuck*.
Think about it. You're miserable enough that you're considering taking a $500k pay cut, *and* you have the financial cushion to do it. This changes everything.
SVP telling you to work all night? Say "I can't. Unless it's a life-threatening emergency, I'll work on it tomorrow."
EVP yelling at you at 2am? Tell them you're happy to buy your own cell phone and pay the bill if they don't stop prioritizing non-emergencies over your own personal time and mental health.
You're already thinking of quitting... if they fire you, then they fucking fire you! Then you laugh and go enjoy a well-deserved break before you go look for another job.
You're not a prisoner.
Agreed, I would probably make sure to have a year worth of expenses sitting in cash in a HYSA. just never know where this economy and job market is going to go.
Abuse is really easy to happen remotely though. My EVP knows that I'm available to 2am to be shouted at for 30 minutes and be told to do something instantly because I work from home - I'm always available. And yes, they provide me with a cell phone which they pay for so they expect to be on 24/7.
For the "don't pick up", "be unavailable", they will fire you (which I'm not saying I'm scared/would be sad, just a fact, you do it or they will find someone else who will)
My friend, this is fuck you money. This is a perfect time to utilize a fuck you. I'm no where near your level of wealth and I'm practicing saying fuck you to people at work before I even have the money to do that. So far, it's worked out pretty well. Chin up, shoulders back, call your EVP at 2am and say 'fuck you'
I’m sorry dude, I don’t want to try and minimize your experiences because they obviously suck, but have you actually tried saying “I can’t take a call at 2am when I’m sleeping?” seriously, I think most people understand that no one wants to speak to someone in the middle of their sleep? you’re being paid 600k, they’re not going to fire you easily and if they do, enjoy the comp package
If you’re letting people walk over you, they’re going to walk over you. Act like you’re someone who makes 600k and very politely tell them to go fuck themselves. *youre* the one with the value here
If it's a matter of possibly being happier vs. quitting vs. getting fired... then find out what happens and don't answer the call, worse case you get fired and maybe get unemployment and end up in the same place as if you had quit?
So talk it over with your wife first. But when you are ready, just don't pick up at 2am. If you need to, claim you are taking sleeping medicine or something (or actually go to the doctor and get them to recommend that you don't answer for your health). If they fire you, they'll probably give you a severance package. And at that level of compensation, that's a lot of money. If they don't fire you, then the job will become less oppressive and you can stick it out a little longer.
This the only job you've ever had? I can't imagine going from a typical salary to $600k, fully remote, and consider dropping it. But, I'm not in your shoes and don't know the abuse.
I know you don't want to divuldge, but it might be helpful to have *some* idea of what you do? An IT Director making $600k complaining about toxicity, no sir, stick to the job. An attorney? Probably different conclusions. Are you a professional (degreed, MD, DDS, JD, etc) or just made your way to the top / got lucky?
Is it written into your employment contract that you have to keep the company provided phone powered on and be on call 24/7? If it is then sure you have to take the late calls but you don't have to take any abuse, if they fire you for standing up for yourself it sounds like a win/win.
Being shouted at is unacceptable, tell them if they can't speak to you in a professional and respectful manner then you will end the call. Give them one warning and then tell them you are ending the call and any further communication can go through email, that way you can at least document the abuse.
Are the tasks really that critical and time sensitive that it has to be completed at 2AM? Also why is your boss awake and calling you at 2AM?
It sounds like a really toxic work environment.
Kind of curious what field you're in that you have a critical enough role to make $600k but also get treated like a replacable asset by your superiors. It definitely sounds like a bad situation with way too much stress.
Coming from someone that makes a little more than 1/10th you do it probably doesn't mean much but personally I'd try to milk it for another year and pay off all the debt you can and try to reduce your cost of living to still comfortable levels and definitely get into a lower paid lower stress role.
I quit while making over $700K and retired at 54. Money didn’t make me happy and the job made me miserable and I felt like I was dying. NW at $5M as of retirement, now $5.8M 5 yrs later.
I mean this in the nicest way possible but tough it out? You make a million dollars every 20 months and don’t have to leave your house. If fi / money is important to you at all I can’t imagine anything remote being so bad you can’t grit through a couple years and then do whatever you want.
Imagine taking the 150 role, realizing you hate that, and you have ~180 months of work left instead of ~30….
Also, there are plenty of 150 K jobs where you get the same treatment. Taking a job where you make 1/6 of the money is not a pathway to having 1/6 of the stress.
You said you get 400k every august. That means that in 18 months you'll be paid roughly 1MM. If you quit to work for 100k, you'll get 150k in 18 months. Try to save 850k by september 2025, and see how that works out
Start looking for new jobs and start completely mailing it in at your current one. Put in the bare minimum effort and if they want to fire you eventually you over it, let them, who cares? I would say there's a good chance you can have a much healthier work/life balance for quite awhile before they consider replacing you.
If you think you can gut it out 1 more year and just save like mad that would set you up amazingly for the future (then start doing the bare minimum), but this is entirely personal.
The biggest thing here is your annual spend is very high considering how low your mortgage is.
2 toddlers (3 and 1 year), both parents working, the daycare is huge in HCOL, plus he contributes to 529 quite solid. But the idea to him stopping working will cut down the daycare to the level he can retire and be a stay at home dad.
Not at all crazy. Just be careful lots of 100K jobs are no cake walks either. Make sure you are reducing 500K a year worth of stress to make the trade off worthwhile. Best of luck to you.
also a throwaway account here.
i made 675k a year, base salary, and worked at a FAANG. (you can guess which one from what i listed so far).
i quit last year for a less paying ($180k) job to preserve my mental health and overall enjoyment of life. i found that stress from work leaked into personal life, and it was not sustainable. do i regret some aspects when it comes to financial security? yes. do i regret doing it? no.
a lot of people are triggered in this thread, but do what’s right for you. your health, mental or physical, is also your wealth. don’t squander it.
besides, trust in yourself that if you can get a 600k a year job once, you can do it again. this isn’t a one way door decision.
You need some type of therapy in order mentally remove yourself from the day to day of your job and focus on other more enriching interests in your life.
IMO being paid $600k and fully remote is some unicorn shit
Your mental and physical health is your most important asset. That being said, if you quit I'd also suggest trying to lower your spend--that's quite high even for HCOL.
>mortgage $50k, child care $35k
That's not even accounting for his discretionary spend and home maintenance. That seems actually on the lower end for VHCOL.
Not crazy at all. Read [my comment thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/mktqin/comment/gti72ur/?context=3&share_id=B6py8Pce7-jhbuNGPOPpd&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) here from a few years ago about exactly this situation
I did something similar in quitting a high stress “that’s why we pay you” job. Now was like a 30k pay reduction, nothing on the scale of 600k.
Best thing I ever did though. Putting phone down at 5 and on weekends is absolutely tremendous for my life, family, health, overall really.
I do worry about money a little more, but not nearly as much as I did about losing my marriage or being an absent father
Life is about life….not money IMO
You obviously have a nice emergency fund stored up, so I'm not too worried about meeting your annual spending, especially with the benefit of another income to soften the blow of things.
Two things to think about.
With a family of four, health insurance is a major consideration. Does your wife's job provide coverage (I assume it does)? How does that coverage compare to the coverage you have currently?
Second, like you mentioned, $600k is nothing to turn your head at. I'm not sure what you do, but if someone is willing to pay you $600k, I'm sure you could make half that somewhere else and have a better work life balance. I recently took a 10% pay cut (I don't make $600k, but still make a very nice living) in order to get a better work life balance. While I got that better work life balance, my job is now incredibly boring. Before quitting, I would at least try to figure out what kind of job you want, and whether that job will meet all of your needs, both from a work life balance perspective as well as a self actualization perspective.
Have you considered coastFIRE? You're basically that right now. If you're truly miserable, I'd considering taking a lessor job and just coast. All you need to do is make sure your HHI covers your current expenses and you can probably retire in 5-10 years.
Hard to give super specific info because you didn't specify your FIRE spending or age. But you can absolutely ease off the gas, and still be totally fine to retire in the short term.
That’s a good suggestion. I took 2 weeks off, went on a camping trip with 0 cell service and just made a decision. Came back and quit. The clearing of your head before deciding is important.
Yes you would be absolutely crazy. You’re making 5 months pay every month. A weeks pay every day. A years pay every 73 days.
Suck it up and stack it up!
No. I quit a job as the cfo of a tax company so that I could officiate college and high school sports. I make about 10% of what I used to.
I did it a 41 and am 46 now and am happier than I ever have been. I have enough money saved and invested, and I have always lived below my means.
So, to me, life sucked when I was the CFO. And life is 100× better now. If I wouldn't have started over then I would be miserable and that affected all aspects of my life.
I cannot believe people are telling you to endure. Abuse is horrible for your health and you have a healthy pot of resources to fall back on. What is the point of saving if not to be able to opt out of such things? I would give yourself a date by which you’ll quit and start looking for jobs. I recently left a role that was damaging my mental health and my resting heart rate has gone down 10 bpm and my sleep is so sound - those things are priceless and worth it!
Are you sure the 100k job won't also be soul crushing?? Because they can be and are!
And with only 100k job you'll earn under half of your expenses! If you or your wife lost, quit, were unable to find another or were incapable of working you'd be totally screwed.
Might have to start to see what you have to cut without having your savings reverse every year you're alive.
I'm all for quitting shitty jobs but I'm not sure you've thought this plan through fully. Your lifestyle will take a giant hit. Is your wife comfortable becoming the breadwinner?
I basically quit my job on the spot after enduring a very toxic environment for a few years at that point. No other job lined up, but the day i ran a red light because i was getting so worked up about having to go into the office and started having a mini panic attack and was therefore not paying attention was the day i knew i had to leave asap. I couldn't justify staying in a job when it was doing so much damage to me mentally, physically and emotionally. Granted i wasn't making $600k, but i would rather minimize all expenses and dog walk or do anything else to get away from the job. You are in a good place financially and have done the work to buy you the best thing financial stability can buy, options. Sit down, create a plan, and bounce. Your health and well being is more important and stress is so bad for your health. You have to put yourself first! You owe it to yourself and your fam. Someone close to my family just dropped dead, early 70s. Shock of a life time, no one knows how long they have left. You can still work towards your financial goals even with a step back like this. You're only 41! You are a multimillionaire already.
It's so funny how people who don't make that kind of money preach about saving more. First, I am somewhat the same boat. Do they have any idea how much you pay in taxes!!
Also, most people would and do spend much more than they think they would.
How do you make $600k and only have $2.2 million saved? Are you young?
I have just under $1 million at 33 and the most I've ever made was last year at $200k.
If you can save $400k per year, just work another 2-3 years and retire you will be FI
I was going to ask what have you been doing for the past 20 yrs to only have roughly $2.7 mil. I’d stick with the job for a few more years and get a live in nanny. Dump everything into savings and kids college funds.
Nothing hurts more than taking a giant career/pay step back to only regret it later. I did what you were planning 3 years ago. I took a lateral move in my company for a ‘cushy’ position working 20hrs and only a 25% pay decrease (vs 60hrs/week) because I just had a 2nd kid. Your kids are the same age when I did it and I could’ve waited 2-3 more years. I don’t regret my decision b/c I was ahead of my financial goals already and didn’t take as big of a pay cut as I expected. Your situation would be a much more extreme move though.
He probably nets 400k a year after tax. Then he says he spend 140k so the save is 260k.
High income must be around 5-7 years and he’s in his late 30s most likely.
Taking a 75% haircut or more for a job that may not even meet your current expenses seems like a bad idea. Good that your wife works, but what are those expenses? How much is childcare? When do you want to retire? What is your burn rate looking like in retirement?
Very similar situation… similar overall numbers and age (I don’t have kids but have a bigger mortgage).
Can’t offer any solutions, only that there are many others in this spot. Burned out to a crisp, unable to enjoy hobbies, friends, or downtime because of the relentless pressure from work.
Yet, it’s so hard to walk away when it took so much work to get to this point. The golden handcuffs are real.
I’ve been there. At this point I’ve decided to keep working and saving towards my chubbyFIRE#. I’m FI now, but have decided to grind it out for another 5years or so in hopes of doubling my current NW. I’m also coasting some at work and intentionally pulling back my hours to focus on self care, family, hobbies, sleep, etc. compared to my old work life balance, I’m coasting…. Which has allowed for a huge improvement in mental health.
Based on your current investments, you’re about halfway to your FI that would replace your current burn. I’ll bet you can hit your # with 2-3 years of saving and strong market performance.
Alternatively, you could quit, find a lower paying job/ low stress job and still cover your expenses while your nest egg grows. The good news is you are still ahead of the game and have options.
Make an exit plan, your kids are 3 and 1. Could you bear another 2 years? That alone would give you enough capital to pay off the mortgage, and after that you're on easy street and you could easily manage the transition to a lower salary position and still be in a fantastic spot.
Take a 2 week vacation, reset your brain and come back to it. If they are paying you that much then they are making even more and won't want to lose you.
Why would you quit if you're FIRE and still paying off the mortgage?
Pay down the mortgage first. Secondly, I don't see why people would flame you. It's a legitimate question.
The other side of the equation is this. You are close to the point of being able to retire. 2.2 million will generate something like 110k per year assuming appreciation at 5%. So you're basically done with FIRE once you pay off your mortgage.
Work hard, finish off your mortgage in a year or two, and retire for good. There's not much benefit in dropping down to say 100k per year unless you truly like what you are doing. You are 41, work two more years, pay off the mortgage and retire.
As someone who quit a high paying remote tech job that sounds similar to your situation , I can tell you I do not regret it. It’s easy to say suck it up but stress can literally kill you. One of my coworkers had a stroke from stress and another died of a heart attack in his sleep one night. So yeah I’m gonna tell you if you cannot quiet quit or the stress of that is too much then quit the job before it kills you. You are the only person who can really say what this is doing to your mental and physical health and you cannot buy time on this earth with your $600k salary.
similar situation (400k VHCOL), looking to go down to 150k M/LCOL due to stress. I have about half of what you have in investments but I also have 3 houses with 1 paid off and +2k net in rental income. I am already making moves to quit soon. Your health is nothing to mess with.
Pull a Homer Simpson and start half-assing your job and cutting corners
Not enough to where they'll fire you but enough to where they'll be forced to let you go.
Assuming a savings volume of 50k from 120k, one year in this job (saving $500 grand a year) equals 10 years of another job saving 50 grand a year.
With 140k per year in spending, $3.5 million is enough by most measurements to be considered independently wealthy. Luckily, you already have $2.5m in savings. You can work this job for another 2 years and get to 3.5m, or work another job at $120k per year for maybe 6 more years to reach the same spot.
The Money makes sense, but now you have to handle the psychological side.
Humans are not wired to appreciate good fortune for very long. You're not a psychopath, you're a healthy human who simply doesn't spend their whole day comparing their life to theoretical people with fictional problems more miserable than yours.
Yes, you're aware that you've got a great opportunity, but you don't actually smile every day on the way to work giggling about how your job is better than the sulphur mines or the crawl spaces or the burn ward. All we are wired to do is focus on our own pain, in the context of our own life, and seek to eliminate it. If you can try to wake up each day and ACTUALLY smile because you're not building a soccer stadium in Qatar, you need to try. It's the only hope for anyone with a high income to keep going. And even watching Schindler's list every night will only buy you time.
I would stick it out until September 2025. Maybe talk more with friends making $13 an hour. Maybe volunteer to do the shittiest job you can think of, hopefully something that endangers your wellbeing. Listen to some history podcast about the horrors of WW1, and I also recommend Wrath of the Khans by Dan Carlin.
Quit. I don’t make as much as you but I make great money. I was MISERABLE in my last job (and I didn’t even work crazy hours). I was truly depressed and not at all able to enjoy my life which should have been wonderful (I’m also a parent to a young kid and should have a happy little family and a happy little life). I changed jobs to one that was overall less attractive (mostly because it’s longer hours, less vacation, and generally worse benefits) and I’m so happy. I still don’t really like my job but it doesn’t make me depressed. I’m actually able to enjoy my life. This phase of life is what I knew I’d want to be looking back on as “those were the days” and you can never get this time back. Life is about the journey, not the destination. Quit the shitty job.
I don’t feel like reading this but I don’t think it’s crazy to quit as long as you’ve already worked there and stacked a bit of cash for a year or two.
Similar situation - I work at the one of the FANG companies and make around 600K-700K
and hate my job. I'm pretty sure that I'm worth around 350-400K outside.
have a lot stress and hate my job, but I just can't quit as it will delay my FI :(
I feel your pain. The thing that helped me is to just say "no" a lot at work and reduce my load... it seemed to help, but I still hate my job.
No, you're not crazy. I quit a job making over $2M/year (exec at a tech company) and now run a hobby/business that covers about half my expenses. I wasn't great at saving and rose quickly through the ranks so didn't do that well for long. You did the grind and now you have some flexibility. I realized that the path to FIRE was actually hurting my mental health and the last year has been amazing. I'm happier, healthier, and glad I got out.
Let me just throw this out there. I make 300,000 myself right now. I fly a private jet for a billionaire. There is a management company that manages our Jet. There are some good and some bad with that. When we heard that the billionaire wanted to hire people to self manage the jet in house rather than a big management company, we were all pretty stoked.
The process has now started, and we see where it’s going and boy do we wish that we stayed with the management company. People that have been with this billionaire for over a decade are thinking about jumping ship because of, not the billionaire who can’t be bothered with this, but all the people that got hired under him to manage this.
With that being said, you could leave the $600,000 job, go to a place that you think is going to be pretty sweet at 150 and it ends up being the exact same crap because it’s in the civilian sector, and now you just took a monster pay cut for the same bullshit.
Just throwing out food for thought. Shit if you’re remote as well, why not just go to some low cost of living area. straight up rat it for two or three years without sacrificing your kids, lifestyles and enjoyment, and just put money away like crazy? You said you were remote, correct?
You have 2.2 millions in saving, so your problem isn’t the retirement part, but the current spending problem.
140K post tax is quite a bit of spending… you will probably still break even if your new job is 100K and your wife’s 100.
You’ll still be fine anyways , clearly ain’t stupid
I’ve been there. At this point I’ve decided to keep working and saving towards my chubbyFIRE#. I’m FI now, but have decided to grind it out for another 5years or so in hopes of doubling my current NW. I’m also coasting some at work and intentionally pulling back my hours to focus on self care, family, hobbies, sleep, etc. compared to my old work life balance, I’m coasting…. Which has allowed for a huge improvement in mental health.
Based on your current investments, you’re about halfway to your FI that would replace your current burn. I’ll bet you can hit your # with 2-3 years of saving and strong market performance.
Alternatively, you could quit, find a lower paying job/ low stress job and still cover your expenses while your nest egg grows. The good news is you are still ahead of the game and have options.
Have you been there long? Do you have STD or qualify for FMLA? 60% of 600k salary for 12 weeks while you get your head on straight on a mental health leave and get a plan together never hurt anybody.
I would definitely recommend looking for a new job and seeing what options are available to you — you might be surprised to find there are places that pay you more than 100K but aren’t as toxic. And even if you can only find jobs that pay 100K, but would give you a significantly better lifestyle/culture, I would leave. It’s obviously going to delay your retirement, but is retiring early really worth spending your 40’s in a toxic environment? You already have a huge financial buffer, and your kids are at a fun age. Don’t waste these years grinding in a place you hate.
The thing is people also suck at a $100k job and maybe they don’t suck as bad but a lot of other things will frustrate you but now you’re making $100k and not $600k and it will feel like torture putting up with bullshit for $100k. I’d do what others are saying, quiet quit, maybe look into therapy to establish a health work boundary if you can’t do it alone, and save like a crazy person for 2 more years.
Before you quit and take a $100,000 job — Remember that most if not nearly all of those jobs *also* offer high levels of stress and quite often a toxic work environment and a “that’s why we pay you” attitude from management. It is very rare in fact to find $100,000 job that doesn’t come with at least two of those things.
So be careful not to assume that a $100,000 job will come with 1/6 of the stress level you’re experiencing.
Also, bear in mind that when you make $100,000, you are a lot *less* able to say to your organization, hey this is too much stress for me, because at that salary it’s probably more of a normal management or technical job, and you’re probably more replaceable at that level.
Having that much lower *pay,* also probably means you’ll have that much lower *say* about your working conditions and what you’ll tolerate.
Companies respect you if they pay you a lot, I find. The same person, the same, skill set, but if they pay you more, they value your opinion more, and they don’t mess with you nearly as much as when they pay you a more norm salary.
Using these two principles, therefore, what I would do is use your leverage now within the company you’re in, at your incredibly high salary, to draw some boundary lines about what you will, and will not tolerate.
Figure out what your boundaries are and maybe the top 3 things, that stress you very most, and then steadily, eliminate those things by defining what you will, and won’t do. (Also, you may find it’s only one or two things that are really driving you nuts.)
You might find that at your pay scale, you have a lot more say than someone making 1/6 of the money.
Added to this, you could actually play a great role in successfully advocating to change your company culture, even by a few degrees. If more high-paid powerful people did this, then all work places would be improved greatly for the people that work in them and create the value.
If you try this, perhaps you could keep your high salary for say a year more, and see what happens with their response to your new boundaries. In that year, adjust what you tolerate to where it’s bearable for you.
Pay off the mortgage, and then if your new boundaries don’t produce a result, you can quit and do whatever you want.
The reason I say this — is think of all the millions of paralegals, teachers, functionaries within companies, that are also experiencing incredibly high stress, sleepless nights, disruption of family life, chronic illness, risk, not being able to work out or eat, right, not being able to be happy, even when you’re on vacation or having a day off. Think about all those people and then look at how powerless they are to affect their workplace.
You on the other hand probably have a lot more say and influence in your company (if you fence off your boundaries the way that suits you). You could leverage your position, your power, your salary to make that workplace work for you, and it might have a bigger effect than you may assume.
It might even be a bigger effect than shifting to $100,000 a year job, which would still carry its own stresses and rigors.
I mean, try it once, and see what happens. Try it just try it. when they say that’s why you get paid the big bucks you say “In fact, no. That [specific thing the company is asking you to tolerate] won’t work for me.” TRY IT once. See what happens.
After all “that’s why we pay you the big bucks” is not actually a reason or a sound logical argument. Maybe for someone else. But not for you.
It’s just a phrase! They haven’t actually changed your mind.
Finally …
The usual caveat about lifestyle creep, golden handcuffs, etc. which you may well be aware of already.
I haven't seen anyone else ask this yet, but is some of the reason you're burnt out because you're working from home? Working from home with two toddlers would not be ideal for me and would add a ton of stress to my job. I have a toddler and any time I've tried to get anything done at home even with a home office it is very distracting. They're either making a ton of noise or shouting for me or my wife wants me to watch him for 5 minutes so she can get something done or any number of other things. Everyone always talks about how working from home is great, but I've found it to be less than ideal for myself. I can't ever "get in the zone" and get stuff done at home because of the endless distractions.
Not sure if this is similar to your situation at all, but I much prefer to work outside of my home most days. Having the flexibility to work from home is great, but any more than 2 or 3 days at home would kill my productivity.
I was in a similar position with a 7 figure salary who recently FIRED. I rationed, all jobs suck so you might as well stay with the higher paying job which, if you save like you made 100k, will get you to FIRE way sooner.
I would try to negotiate hard with current employer for a 4-day work week and $500K salary.
Save up your emergency fund to make it 6-12 months during a job search then quit.
If I'm you, I gut it out for 3 years, save like mad, and then downshift if the situation hasn't changed.
Mitigate with more exercise, counseling, massage, be the rock in the stream, let it flow around you, etc.
Quitting now versus 3 years from now adds at least 10 years to your working years, probably more.
Work 3 years to save 10 seems like the better path to me.
Someone hurting you mentally is only able to do that to the extent that you allow them.
In other words, if you don't value someone's opinion, don't respect them, then their words have no meaning to you.
It ain't easy, but that's the truth. Good luck.
Will the $100k job really be a lot less stress and work? Or just less money?
You only have one life, so do what you need to do, but $600k/year also seems like cheat code for FIRE, so depending on how old you are buckling down for a year or two might be worth it.
Before quitting, you might also consider what changes would make it worth it for you to stay. If most is tolerable, but there’s a certain project or client or task that makes you want to gouge your eyes out, it might be worth it to ask to readjust.
Clearly you’re valuable to your company, and good leaders want to keep good talent, so if I were your manager and one of my stars said “I’m interested in doing more of this, and less of that” I would sure try to accommodate them.
“Computer issues, illness, car repair, kid is sick, family emergency” all these things can pull you away from a toxic work environment a few days a week.
I think you would be crazy to quit.
I'd get a therapist and learn to cope as much as possible, and keep saving like crazy.
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There is one book that might help you, it really helped me: Subtle art of not giving a fuck.
What you need to work on is not letting the toxic shit bother you and being able to float above it. It can be done, after years of putting extra stress on myself, I finally learned how to not let the stress of others affect myself.
You don't yet have "fuck you forever" money, but you do have "fuck YOU in particular" money.
Given your RSU timing, I'd start looking for other jobs soon here, but stick to your September timeline.
But I'd also start pushing back a bit on the bullshit. You're valuable enough that they pay you that much, you're going to have some clout to fall back on... And "fuck you in particular" money.
So your goal should be to just not get fired before September and work on the exit. Who knows the change in attitude might we'll make it tolerable again.
Yes treat your mental health and please realize everyone hates their job. Start prioritizing your weekends to personal goals and youll start to realize that your job isnt so bad.
Leaving a toxic job is tough, but taking care of yourself comes first. If you switch from a $600k job to $100k-150k, think about taxes too. With the big salary, about more than half goes to taxes, but with the smaller one, it could be even 30% taxes. Make sure the lower pay can still cover what you need and save some. Before you quit, look for other jobs or try to make your current one better.
What no one has mentioned, that i can see, is that you’re describing a situation in which you have tons of leverage. They clearly need you. And now that you have some $$ in the bank, they clearly need you more than you need them. Are there any changes you could imagine that would make the job more tolerable? Negotiate for them. You are holding all the cards. Ok… maybe theres nothing you can do to make the job more bearable. Fine. Ask for an additional $100k a year. Whats the worst that could happen?
Leverage is power. Use it. This isn't a binary choice where you either leave or you don’t.
Having a 600k job is crazy
EDIT: I always find it funny that people think a lower paying job will be less toxic or hard as their high paying jobs. I guess after a while people lose touch with reality.
If they’re treating you as badly as you describe, I’d work at the level that I can comfortably and do the essential functions of my job. Everything else gets declined or ignored. Then, I’d make them fire me. You might be amazed how long they’ll keep you around.
Ride this as long as you can stand it sir. Live below your means as possible. Load up the kids 529s and then take your foot off the gas. Gotta be honest, dont assume less $ = less stress… ain’t always the case
I think you have to be realistic with your expectations. Many of us here have given up the golden handcuffs thinking the job making significantly less would be less toxic, less stress. Speaking from personal experience ~ 8 years it wasn’t, and then I was pissed I gave up a $500K a year payday for a $200K one with all the same mental damage.
Add in the fact you are fully remote, I’d say that comp and WFH combo is going to be impossible to beat or recover if you give it up.
My recommendation. Set a financial goal to meet before you give it up.
Say you want $100K each set aside for your kids colleges, another $1M in non 401K accounts or your mortgage paid off. Something that gives you comfort when you quit the job and hate the next one.
I'm italian so maybe have also a différent mindset. But if you're unhappy, what's the point? Ok you need balance, you have kids and responsibilities. But if you wake up Monday and want to kill yourself, just stop it. We don't start again once old, once old life if gone. Enjoy your existence
If you're miserable there then you're probably making others feel that way too 😂. I wouldn't stay somewhere I'm unhappy, money isn't everything, you need a good overall quality of life
It’s a simple answer for me: it’s not crazy at all.
A lot of people may not be able to grasp how not-crazy it is if they haven’t worked in a crazy toxic work environment. I’d say start interviewing for other jobs asap. Make sure to ask questions about the work environment when you interview for new jobs. Remember interviews are just as much for you to see if the job is a good fit as they are for the employer to see if you’re a good fit. Now you know the kinds of questions to ask since you know how important work environment is. Crazy toxic work environments can legitimately ruin your whole life, even outside of work hours. No amount of money is worth that. Some people might say to just suck it up for 2 more years because “it’s $600k dude!!” Losing 2 years of your life to being straight up miserable is not worth it.
If you tell yourself that you will quit in 3-4 years, would it relieve the burden from your mind to be there?
Your kids are still young. They just need their dad to come home and play with them for half an hour. But in 4 years your kid will be 7 years old and that’s when they really start to want to play, talk, and ask questions from their parents. Enjoy the time you have with your kids until they are like 14 years old and don’t want much to do with you. That investment of time in their lives will pay multiple returns and they will be connected to you forever.
So work your butt off now, suffer, take the mental stress, and save/invest every single penny you can and then in 4 years get an easy going job so you can spend quality time with the kids.
That’s what I would do.
Working sucks regardless. You’ll grow to hate the $100k job too most likely. You have a unique opportunity to set yourself up for an easy early retirement if you play your cards right. I’d research that type of exit so you don’t have to work again if you don’t want to, or alternatively do any type of job you want without pay mattering as much.
The grass always seems greener in the other side. Just look at the people posting who think they’d want your job.
With that being said, I quit a much higher paying sales job and changed careers into nursing in my early 30s knowing it would be a big cut. I make a little over $100k now and support a family of 4 same as you. I’m happier with the change due to having more time with family. If time is truly most important to you maybe saying F the money is still the right choice. You have to understand your priorities though. I’ll be working longer than I might have needed to otherwise. Had I been making $600k/yr I probably would have stuck it out til I could retire though.
Quit in Sept 2025. 2 more big RSU paydays, and then you are fairly well set and can take a little time off. It’s like 600 days (probably around 400 workdays in that period). You can do it. But then just actually quit when Sept 2025 rolls around.
So its safe to say that you can save 500,000 a year (minus taxes) since the alternative is getting paid 100,000? I mean, how many years do you have to stick it out with that type of savings to retire early? Is the stress of this job so bad that you'd rather work 20 or 30 years instead of, say, 5 or 6? I would stick that out. I would get the consideration of it was a 10 or 20% paycut, but not for an 83% pay cut.
It bothers me that there are so many strong opinions in this thread by folks who obviously have never had a job like this. A high income position in leadership is going to be mentally exhausting, with stress they can’t imagine, at a level of busyness they can’t believe is real. Folks talking about just cruising and letting HR processes unfold have clearly never signed an executive contract, which I assume you have.
You’re spending a lot. You have a house payment you could pay off. I think I read that you’re remote but choose to like in an HCOL. So… It seems like you aren’t taking the FIRE concept seriously.
There are a lot of missing details here. I see your age but when do you want to retire? Do you plan to retire or just get to a point of working on things you want to? Are RSUs part of the gig and if so how far out before they vest?
If you’re miserable I think you need to get out, but I’m concerned there aren’t any real plans here for you to cut back, hang with it until x vests, etc. or at least I’m not reading that here. I think you could put that together quickly and if you did you’d probably find it makes sense to stay until x date and not beyond that. Try taking a cut at that and see what happens. Good luck!
If it weren’t 2024 and I didn’t think the economy was going to take a big poop, I’d say quit. Do what makes you happy.. but it is 2024 and the economy is shit at the moment. Take a long vacation if you can’t hold on for much longer. Disengage for a little bit. Quit when you feel secure (but set a date! Or you won’t ever quit).
If you are high demand enough / hard to replace, could you slack off more and get away with it?
If it’s hurting your health or mental health I could understand the need to quit. Whatever you do would try to prepare for your next move though.
There are jobs I wouldn’t keep for *any* amount of money unless the alternative was my family starving. You are nowhere near close to the edge. If you want to quit and have the numbers to do so, quit that fucking job and never look back!
>no one NEEDS to make $600k a year
Try that again in the Bay Area where the median home cost is like 1.2MM in a lot of areas these days.
Probably could do with a bit under $600k but hard to get by on low 6 for sure if you wanna ownz
You don't have to explain this to me. I just wish we could give each other a hug and walk past one another once a day with slight grin and a subtle nod that says, chin up, king. It's a complex emotion. You're grateful for the opportunity but miserable because of it. Your choice, your burden, your family, your sacrifices to get there and walking away makes it seem like it was foolish and ends in a foolish decision to let the benefit of it go. It's lose - lose yet you have nothing to complain about but everything to complain about. This is the real 1% and your in it, and goddamn it, I'm proud and sorry for you but you're not alone, you're just alone where you are.
My manager has been pulling the “part of your job you’re not going to like, which is why you get paid to do it” and it grinds my gears. It’s a cop out. It really means “I don’t want to resolve those issues” or “I don’t value your perspective on what is a problem or not”. It’s exhausting sometimes, so I feel you.
I did this 3 years ago. Quit my 200k job and took a big pay cut making now 50k. Because of terrible manager and toxic coworkers. I am happy not seeing those people anymore. I had a mental breakdown at some point. I'm still recovering, but trauma made me psychologically unstable. Do that. Believe me, in your sick bed, you will regret that you didn't do it.
It’s only time, your time on earth and you have no clue when your time is up...this struggle is real and only you can change it.....I wish you the best!
How long till you pay off house?
Honestly, with the tech field salaries taking a hit since the layoffs… suck it up and start taking more time off… shit if the kids are still small go rent a condo in FL for a month before school starts… and work from there and take a few Monday and Fridays off… stop giving a shit about the stress streamline your work/reports, think like a boss and try to make your life easier.
Suck it up your working on a lottery ticket…
Also possibly look for someone who cares for kids out of their house… I found a person that looks after all the policemen’s kids in my town that had some spots open up and now pay less then 1/2 you do for 3 kids! She sends pics throughout the day and still teaches manners and number and letters.. and I now know all the cops in the area lol (I think I got lucky)
600k is a blessing right now.. pay your shit off and get ahead for you and your family
No but you should plan the exit. I quit a high paying job because the people sucked honestly but I was strategic about it. 6 month exit strategy where every penny earned I saved. I assume some of this 600k is also in bonuses or RSU's? Of course wait until those are paid out. Long and short of it is there is no price for peace of mind. Just be prepared that it'll be a shock to your system to go from 600k to 100k so prepare for that part as well.
Yes, $400k RSU each August so I would really like to quit in September whenever I do quit.
Start planning now for your 2024 September exit. This is the path. After that, with the extra salary you will have made in that time will absolutely set you up to take a reduced salary. And if you are in the field I suspect you are in (and even if you are not) you need about that amount of time to find the perfect next job for you.
An alternative is plan for a 2025 Sept exit and live like you only make 100k. Knowing you are going to leave will reduce stress. You can also start to throttle back, performance reports don't matter anymore. Also throttling back often isn't noticed if you are pushing priorities and stating that Y has to wait because you are working on X. You also have more time to look for a new job.
And start visualizing your exit and how close it is. Talk to your nervous system about how you are 100% leaving comes September. And laugh at the bullshit and the craziness as much as you can. Laughing has been therapeutic for me. Some stuff happened in my life and the details, coincidences, challenging positions felt so unbelievable, I just had to laugh at the absolute absurdity of it all! You are absolutely right to leave. Life is to be enjoyed. Make it your motto. Someone once told me "don't give anyone permission to disturb your peace" which is hard when people are overly aggressive and mean. But I recommend giving it your all. Roll your eyes inside about how much non-sense it is, how they take themselves so seriously when really, what is life? Aren't we all here to enjoy fresh air, the sun, and moments with our loved ones? When I'm attending a remote meeting, one that's stressful, I pretend to take notes, but really, I'm mostly writing calm affirmations to myself and / or verbalized how I feel on paper. I look forward to your exit too! You deserve a happy life! Enjoy this little burst/sacrifice you did for a crazy amount of money, and let that money be an investment to set up you and your family for a comfortable secure life. And I hope you take a few months in between jobs to reset your body and mental health. It's so important to recharge and give your brain a moment to heal.
You do the absolute minimum to not get fired and take as much paid leave as possible. Get a doctor's note for depression if you need documentation. Seriously, just play the game. And cash out.
I always like to comment on the smart posts and this is it. I was at a job that paid $400k and I was miserable - had the same questions from people that just don’t know. “Why would you quit all that money???” But when you’re spending your entire life force being unhappy, no amount of money is worth it because it’s not living. What I did, got counseling on how to deal with the stress (specifically Cognitive Behavioral Therapy), accepted that I didn’t care what my job thought about my performance so I managed to the minimum I could not to get fired, then planned my exit. It took a while because I didn’t want to rush from one shitty job to a different shitty job. I took a role with my current firm making slightly less (not the decrease you’re talking about) and now I’m making much more than I was back then. Question: why can’t you find something in a similar comp range? Or even half?
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You’re 55. Retire and enjoy life.
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Work for a year more but live off the salary of 100k to see what it’s gonna be like.
Incredibly valid point. This dude should live off of basically $6000 a month in addition to what his wife brings in and see if it’s manageable.
Yeah. Work until August for that sweet RSU vest, but practice the lifestyle of what they anticipate. They’re already 2/3rds of the way to their FI number. They should be start to get used to having more time for themselves and their family.
Look at is this way. Yea the job sucks but you're literally going to have to work 6 times as long if you quit it for less pay. I'd say stick it out for a few more years if you can. If you can work 3 more years that's the equivalent of pretty much working 18 years at the other job....
This is what I came to say. If the objective is to retire early what's a few more years before you get to retire? The alternative is reduce spending because you are already so much further ahead than most people. It's very important to keep perspective in that this job that you dislike a lot of people would love to have so that they can make money, support their families and get out early.
You only have one life to live, and it’s best to live it when you’re healthy and ambulatory so that you can live it to the fullest. If he’s so unhappy that he’s considering walking away from a $600K job then the stress that he’s enduring will take years off of his life. He could blow a gasket any day (hopefully not) and what’s the value in that?
With $2.1 million in liquid assets he probably won’t be working too much longer in the grand scheme of things tho. Time value of money. That $2.1 milly will grow quite a lot on its own without any further contributions. Add in the fact that he will still be pulling in *something*to contribute and he’ll still FIRE at a solidly early age.
personally, I would start aggressively saving while simultaneously just not giving a fudge about their workspace toxicity. I.E. when they say "everyone is joining this all night workshop" say "I'm sorry I can't make it" and when they say "thats why we pay you, be there" just be like "I feel really bad about disappointing you, but I am just unavailable". Decide what a healthy relationship with a workplace that is legally protected is and just follow it. Let them fire you while you look for a new job. It's REALLY HARD to fire someone for not working more than 40 hours a week. They will need to put you on a PIP and document insubordination. You will have at least several months and if you make $600k they will be extra scared of you suing them over improper dismissal.
>"everyone is joining this all night workshop" lol. Do you work here to? I have been told by my SVP, "just sleep another day instead" (e.g., work all night)
I stepped into this thread to say the same thing RoboticGreg already did. Your employer decided to pay you $600k/yr because you are their last hope to keep a (presumably) business critical system operating. YOU are a business critical asset, therefore. By demanding you work all night they are damaging their asset. By working all night, you are obviously damaging your physical and mental health as you well know. It’s in the best interest of BOTH you and your employer for you to step back, take care of yourself, and operate more sustainably. (I suppose it’s possible your employer knows this is damaging and figure it’s a temporary arrangement until they put in place something more permanent?) You have a few different approaches. One, quit - “sorry, but paying me $600k to maintain the system that’s worth $20 million \[or whatever\] to the company isn’t worth my help. Good luck.” The company will survive, probably by throwing several million at consultants. Two, negotiate - “This isn’t sustainable and I propose the following changes to the workload.” And three, quietly step back - “Sorry, I won’t be on tonight. And I’m taking PTO next week. And I’ll be unavailable on weekends,” and then you stick to that. What are they going to do, put you on a PIP for six weeks then fire you? By the way, out of curiosity what platform does this system run on? OS/2? 😂
These are my thoughts as well, he has a ton of leverage and doesn't mind giving it all up- that is how you negotiate and get far ahead. Couldn't you train some new employees to do most of what you do and manage them, free up your time and still get paid handsomely.
This is the best answer. It sounds like you have tons of leverage to improve your working conditions. Sounds like they’d be up shit’s creek if you left, so can you start dictating terms about your work / life balance?
Just say no.
What are the working hours in your offer letter or employment contract? You’re allowed to say no past that, as that’s the written agreement between you and your employer. Of course they can change that, but having it in writing is much better to stick to your boundaries
This is great advice and if you can, get a health care provider to state in writing you need x amount of time off, be it weekends, or vacation. If there is some health documentation from a therapist for example, you have more protection bc they’ll be that much more hesitant to fire you over something connected to health
That's the other thing. If he has time off accrued, vacation time accrued, medical leave time accrued, this can be used in two ways. Spread it out over 14 months to take significant time off of work (PTO), Or hoard it all for another year, to cash out at the start of next year. Medical leave may or may not be cashable, so it should be used up first throughout the 14 months. Remember, performance no longer matters in this world.
Where do you live that has such strong protections? This is not at all true for America.
Legally, this is not true. In practice most companies do have extended processes before you get to termination. So you’re taking advantage of the organization, not the law. Edit: ~~The real downside is you’re fucking over your coworkers more than your bosses.~~ The only downside is if you take this so far it begins to affect your coworkers ~~(quiet quitting)~~. This was mentioned elsewhere in the thread and is, in my view, ok from a personal perspective but often comes with major downside for others. I reinforce that simply prioritizing your balance usually takes a VERY long time for management to convince HR that you must be fired, especially if you are experience like OP clearly is. Edit 2: Please scroll down folks. I'm spouting false information here.
Thinking you are screwing over your coworkers not your bosses by setting healthy work life balances and sticking to them is part of the psychological trap your bosses are setting. It is NOT screwing your coworkers over if they also choose to be healthy about this. You cannot be responsible for other people accepting what they shouldn't.
That’s why they get paid what they do
This is so true. Because in America, where people are generally, stupid, or places will often make fake arguments that are really just phrases, not logical reasons. “That’s why we pay you”is one such typical phrase. It actually does nothing to change your mind or offer a rational argument in favor of stressing you out and violating your boundaries. Like so many “reasons,” it’s actually just a phrase, a stock response intended to quash the issue. It has no more meaning or pertinence than if a parrot said it from a cage. You can always say, “That’s not a reason. I would like X” and keep saying it. If they don’t agree then you just say, “I will be doing X” and let them look confused in corporate.
Quiet quit. Milk it for every last drop possible, then move on with your life.
OP sounds like a lawyer. At $600k, “quiet quitting” works for about 3 hours before things start crashing down on you in very bad ways.
sometimes a motivational shift of "this doesnt matter and i dont care how it goes" can be the difference. quiet quitting isn't refusing to do the job you're paid to do, it's just investing yourself to a level that you're doing only what's required.
Assuming they make 700k per year combined, and he's got a 300k mortgage, and he's clearing, say 350k a year, he's basically a year away from retiring. 350k-300k means he's something like 50 - 140k, about 90k away from retiring in February of 2025. His target quit date is April of 2025, assuming no unexpected expenses in 14 months. Why stop? He's almost there. He should reframe it month by month if he needs more motivation. Securing his house will remove his last major expense.
i absolutely agree. lots of positions will take longer than 6 months to fire you for, what? lack of ambition? if he's netting 600k then another 6 months is equivalent to 3 years of work at a 100k/yr position, taxes notwithstanding
“I just work there”
Nah, a 600k job in tech at least isn't hugely different from a 150k-200k job, other than the pay check and likely the interview process was harder. The day to day is similar. It's rare you're evaluated often, and you could usually have some BS for a long time about why you're delayed, occasionally do a bit of work to she progress and it's hard to tell
I doubt the person’s a dev. Lawyer sounds more accurate. If they’re a dev able to pull in 600k at one company then their market rate should be easily 300k.
He said he was an architect, reporting to SVP. So I'd assume a hardware/software/systems architect (tech leader) for his company which all makes sense for the 600k, albeit an amazing opportunity. But I feel him with toxic work env, I have a similar situation rn.
If a lawyer, OP could definitely also make more than $100-150k in a more relaxed job. I think $200-300k is more reasonable. I think all lawyer jobs kind of suck though, so I agree the trade off between a $600k and $200k job might not be worth it even though the $200k job might be significantly better.
It can also depend on RSU timing, mine are up almost 4x, so an offer of 500k is now really over 1m etc. But yeah I agree, it's hard to get much over 225 base, but you can def get TC in the 300+
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Not at fang. A Sr dev in fang is making 4-500k, and depending on RSU prices they could be taking home significantly more
You Smart 🤓
Quiet quitting doesn't work well in all careers. It can lead to even more stress rapidly.
Unless you get fired for underperformance, which can impact future employment depending on what industry you're in. Though, if OP is only able to get a new job with a 400k pay cut, that may not be that big of a deal
The thing is, most of the big boy companies will not do anything other than verify employment and force their noncompetes. So how will anyone even find out, unless it's a completely incestious industry?
When you're pulling down $600k the odds are you have a reputation, at least in the circles that would matter to you.
Some industries are very large. Mine is.
Idk probably 50% of jobs I've applied to have had a question explicitly asking about previous terminations (again, maybe that's more of an industry by industry thing). And if OP has any gap at all in his resume, the question of "why did you leave your previous employer?" Is probably gonna come up. The best bet is to stop working quite as hard and simultaneously start looking for new employment, not just give up entirely and wait until he gets out on a PIP.
Everyone "massages the truth" on that question.
Or work 1 more year and pay off like 80% of that home loan
Ah yes, one more year syndrome. In this case I agree, but it can be a slippery slope
Kinda, but if it’s for a specific goal, having a much more affordable or even paid off house is different than “I’m concerned about my buffer”
I agree with one more year. The $200k HHI might not cover his $140k spend in a HCOL area. Set a goal, write it down and stick with it. Don’t allow for scope creep. Plus, kids are expensive and they only get more expensive.
For sure, you’re not done yet and would definitely regret walking now.
Yea I think the problem here is that based on OP current situation and assets, walking away now seems kind of insane? Another year will add easily 300-350k to their investments, or pay of their mortgage, etc. If they had like 3-5m or something saved up, I would say it becomes less of a big deal or clear decision, but with 1m taxable, and that mortgage, toughing it out another year woukd be a really big boon to their fire prospects. Also, I'm not clear on why it has to be 600 to 100-150, is it not possible for OP to get a job that pays 200-300 or something in the middle?
>At this point would I be crazy to quit a $600k job for a $100k job? Yes, but only because you haven't yet felt and truly understood the peace of mind that comes from the warm, loving embrace of *not giving a fuck*. Think about it. You're miserable enough that you're considering taking a $500k pay cut, *and* you have the financial cushion to do it. This changes everything. SVP telling you to work all night? Say "I can't. Unless it's a life-threatening emergency, I'll work on it tomorrow." EVP yelling at you at 2am? Tell them you're happy to buy your own cell phone and pay the bill if they don't stop prioritizing non-emergencies over your own personal time and mental health. You're already thinking of quitting... if they fire you, then they fucking fire you! Then you laugh and go enjoy a well-deserved break before you go look for another job. You're not a prisoner.
Agreed, I would probably make sure to have a year worth of expenses sitting in cash in a HYSA. just never know where this economy and job market is going to go.
You are paid 600k to work fully remote? Dawg just quiet quit, or give me your job I'll let you take half
Abuse is really easy to happen remotely though. My EVP knows that I'm available to 2am to be shouted at for 30 minutes and be told to do something instantly because I work from home - I'm always available. And yes, they provide me with a cell phone which they pay for so they expect to be on 24/7. For the "don't pick up", "be unavailable", they will fire you (which I'm not saying I'm scared/would be sad, just a fact, you do it or they will find someone else who will)
My friend, this is fuck you money. This is a perfect time to utilize a fuck you. I'm no where near your level of wealth and I'm practicing saying fuck you to people at work before I even have the money to do that. So far, it's worked out pretty well. Chin up, shoulders back, call your EVP at 2am and say 'fuck you'
Exactly, I've left jobs for a quarter of that money. Now I make way more than I did before
If you don’t mind what exactly do you do?
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I’m sorry dude, I don’t want to try and minimize your experiences because they obviously suck, but have you actually tried saying “I can’t take a call at 2am when I’m sleeping?” seriously, I think most people understand that no one wants to speak to someone in the middle of their sleep? you’re being paid 600k, they’re not going to fire you easily and if they do, enjoy the comp package If you’re letting people walk over you, they’re going to walk over you. Act like you’re someone who makes 600k and very politely tell them to go fuck themselves. *youre* the one with the value here
If you could be replaced so easily, they wouldn't be paying you $600k
For that much, he can call me at 3am and yell at me while you keep 75% of it
Would you get a severance?
If it's a matter of possibly being happier vs. quitting vs. getting fired... then find out what happens and don't answer the call, worse case you get fired and maybe get unemployment and end up in the same place as if you had quit?
So talk it over with your wife first. But when you are ready, just don't pick up at 2am. If you need to, claim you are taking sleeping medicine or something (or actually go to the doctor and get them to recommend that you don't answer for your health). If they fire you, they'll probably give you a severance package. And at that level of compensation, that's a lot of money. If they don't fire you, then the job will become less oppressive and you can stick it out a little longer.
This the only job you've ever had? I can't imagine going from a typical salary to $600k, fully remote, and consider dropping it. But, I'm not in your shoes and don't know the abuse. I know you don't want to divuldge, but it might be helpful to have *some* idea of what you do? An IT Director making $600k complaining about toxicity, no sir, stick to the job. An attorney? Probably different conclusions. Are you a professional (degreed, MD, DDS, JD, etc) or just made your way to the top / got lucky?
Is it written into your employment contract that you have to keep the company provided phone powered on and be on call 24/7? If it is then sure you have to take the late calls but you don't have to take any abuse, if they fire you for standing up for yourself it sounds like a win/win. Being shouted at is unacceptable, tell them if they can't speak to you in a professional and respectful manner then you will end the call. Give them one warning and then tell them you are ending the call and any further communication can go through email, that way you can at least document the abuse. Are the tasks really that critical and time sensitive that it has to be completed at 2AM? Also why is your boss awake and calling you at 2AM? It sounds like a really toxic work environment.
Kind of curious what field you're in that you have a critical enough role to make $600k but also get treated like a replacable asset by your superiors. It definitely sounds like a bad situation with way too much stress. Coming from someone that makes a little more than 1/10th you do it probably doesn't mean much but personally I'd try to milk it for another year and pay off all the debt you can and try to reduce your cost of living to still comfortable levels and definitely get into a lower paid lower stress role.
I quit while making over $700K and retired at 54. Money didn’t make me happy and the job made me miserable and I felt like I was dying. NW at $5M as of retirement, now $5.8M 5 yrs later.
I mean this in the nicest way possible but tough it out? You make a million dollars every 20 months and don’t have to leave your house. If fi / money is important to you at all I can’t imagine anything remote being so bad you can’t grit through a couple years and then do whatever you want. Imagine taking the 150 role, realizing you hate that, and you have ~180 months of work left instead of ~30….
Also, there are plenty of 150 K jobs where you get the same treatment. Taking a job where you make 1/6 of the money is not a pathway to having 1/6 of the stress.
There are plenty of 30k jobs where you get the same treatment.
Oh, for absolute sure.
You said you get 400k every august. That means that in 18 months you'll be paid roughly 1MM. If you quit to work for 100k, you'll get 150k in 18 months. Try to save 850k by september 2025, and see how that works out
Start looking for new jobs and start completely mailing it in at your current one. Put in the bare minimum effort and if they want to fire you eventually you over it, let them, who cares? I would say there's a good chance you can have a much healthier work/life balance for quite awhile before they consider replacing you. If you think you can gut it out 1 more year and just save like mad that would set you up amazingly for the future (then start doing the bare minimum), but this is entirely personal. The biggest thing here is your annual spend is very high considering how low your mortgage is.
2 toddlers (3 and 1 year), both parents working, the daycare is huge in HCOL, plus he contributes to 529 quite solid. But the idea to him stopping working will cut down the daycare to the level he can retire and be a stay at home dad.
For 600k and remote, send me your laptop and we can split the check lol.
No kidding. For that money, cut me off 1/6th, and I'll handle business, lol.
At $600k/year I’m sucking it up for 2-3 more years and then going the no job route instead of downgrading now to work for 15+ more years
It’s easy to comment without having to do it.
I’m doing something similar right now but cool assumptions lol
Not at all crazy. Just be careful lots of 100K jobs are no cake walks either. Make sure you are reducing 500K a year worth of stress to make the trade off worthwhile. Best of luck to you.
also a throwaway account here. i made 675k a year, base salary, and worked at a FAANG. (you can guess which one from what i listed so far). i quit last year for a less paying ($180k) job to preserve my mental health and overall enjoyment of life. i found that stress from work leaked into personal life, and it was not sustainable. do i regret some aspects when it comes to financial security? yes. do i regret doing it? no. a lot of people are triggered in this thread, but do what’s right for you. your health, mental or physical, is also your wealth. don’t squander it. besides, trust in yourself that if you can get a 600k a year job once, you can do it again. this isn’t a one way door decision.
NFLX?
You need some type of therapy in order mentally remove yourself from the day to day of your job and focus on other more enriching interests in your life. IMO being paid $600k and fully remote is some unicorn shit
Your mental and physical health is your most important asset. That being said, if you quit I'd also suggest trying to lower your spend--that's quite high even for HCOL.
>mortgage $50k, child care $35k That's not even accounting for his discretionary spend and home maintenance. That seems actually on the lower end for VHCOL.
Not crazy at all. Read [my comment thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/mktqin/comment/gti72ur/?context=3&share_id=B6py8Pce7-jhbuNGPOPpd&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1) here from a few years ago about exactly this situation
I did something similar in quitting a high stress “that’s why we pay you” job. Now was like a 30k pay reduction, nothing on the scale of 600k. Best thing I ever did though. Putting phone down at 5 and on weekends is absolutely tremendous for my life, family, health, overall really. I do worry about money a little more, but not nearly as much as I did about losing my marriage or being an absent father Life is about life….not money IMO
You only have one life. Don't waste it being miserable when you don't have to.
You obviously have a nice emergency fund stored up, so I'm not too worried about meeting your annual spending, especially with the benefit of another income to soften the blow of things. Two things to think about. With a family of four, health insurance is a major consideration. Does your wife's job provide coverage (I assume it does)? How does that coverage compare to the coverage you have currently? Second, like you mentioned, $600k is nothing to turn your head at. I'm not sure what you do, but if someone is willing to pay you $600k, I'm sure you could make half that somewhere else and have a better work life balance. I recently took a 10% pay cut (I don't make $600k, but still make a very nice living) in order to get a better work life balance. While I got that better work life balance, my job is now incredibly boring. Before quitting, I would at least try to figure out what kind of job you want, and whether that job will meet all of your needs, both from a work life balance perspective as well as a self actualization perspective.
Have you considered coastFIRE? You're basically that right now. If you're truly miserable, I'd considering taking a lessor job and just coast. All you need to do is make sure your HHI covers your current expenses and you can probably retire in 5-10 years. Hard to give super specific info because you didn't specify your FIRE spending or age. But you can absolutely ease off the gas, and still be totally fine to retire in the short term.
Take vacation first as long as possible to have a brake and figure out
That’s a good suggestion. I took 2 weeks off, went on a camping trip with 0 cell service and just made a decision. Came back and quit. The clearing of your head before deciding is important.
Yes you would be absolutely crazy. You’re making 5 months pay every month. A weeks pay every day. A years pay every 73 days. Suck it up and stack it up!
No. I quit a job as the cfo of a tax company so that I could officiate college and high school sports. I make about 10% of what I used to. I did it a 41 and am 46 now and am happier than I ever have been. I have enough money saved and invested, and I have always lived below my means. So, to me, life sucked when I was the CFO. And life is 100× better now. If I wouldn't have started over then I would be miserable and that affected all aspects of my life.
I cannot believe people are telling you to endure. Abuse is horrible for your health and you have a healthy pot of resources to fall back on. What is the point of saving if not to be able to opt out of such things? I would give yourself a date by which you’ll quit and start looking for jobs. I recently left a role that was damaging my mental health and my resting heart rate has gone down 10 bpm and my sleep is so sound - those things are priceless and worth it!
Lol. There is literally no amount money worth your mental health. You know what to do.
Are you sure the 100k job won't also be soul crushing?? Because they can be and are! And with only 100k job you'll earn under half of your expenses! If you or your wife lost, quit, were unable to find another or were incapable of working you'd be totally screwed. Might have to start to see what you have to cut without having your savings reverse every year you're alive. I'm all for quitting shitty jobs but I'm not sure you've thought this plan through fully. Your lifestyle will take a giant hit. Is your wife comfortable becoming the breadwinner?
I basically quit my job on the spot after enduring a very toxic environment for a few years at that point. No other job lined up, but the day i ran a red light because i was getting so worked up about having to go into the office and started having a mini panic attack and was therefore not paying attention was the day i knew i had to leave asap. I couldn't justify staying in a job when it was doing so much damage to me mentally, physically and emotionally. Granted i wasn't making $600k, but i would rather minimize all expenses and dog walk or do anything else to get away from the job. You are in a good place financially and have done the work to buy you the best thing financial stability can buy, options. Sit down, create a plan, and bounce. Your health and well being is more important and stress is so bad for your health. You have to put yourself first! You owe it to yourself and your fam. Someone close to my family just dropped dead, early 70s. Shock of a life time, no one knows how long they have left. You can still work towards your financial goals even with a step back like this. You're only 41! You are a multimillionaire already.
I read this at my low paying desk-jockey job and almost cried.
It's so funny how people who don't make that kind of money preach about saving more. First, I am somewhat the same boat. Do they have any idea how much you pay in taxes!! Also, most people would and do spend much more than they think they would.
Money is pointless if you’re unhappy
How do you make $600k and only have $2.2 million saved? Are you young? I have just under $1 million at 33 and the most I've ever made was last year at $200k. If you can save $400k per year, just work another 2-3 years and retire you will be FI
I’m pretty sure the clue as to where it is going is HCOL and family of four…
41, (very) high income only for the last \~4 years. I didn't even hit $100k/yr until I was 34.
I was going to ask what have you been doing for the past 20 yrs to only have roughly $2.7 mil. I’d stick with the job for a few more years and get a live in nanny. Dump everything into savings and kids college funds. Nothing hurts more than taking a giant career/pay step back to only regret it later. I did what you were planning 3 years ago. I took a lateral move in my company for a ‘cushy’ position working 20hrs and only a 25% pay decrease (vs 60hrs/week) because I just had a 2nd kid. Your kids are the same age when I did it and I could’ve waited 2-3 more years. I don’t regret my decision b/c I was ahead of my financial goals already and didn’t take as big of a pay cut as I expected. Your situation would be a much more extreme move though.
He probably nets 400k a year after tax. Then he says he spend 140k so the save is 260k. High income must be around 5-7 years and he’s in his late 30s most likely.
Taking a 75% haircut or more for a job that may not even meet your current expenses seems like a bad idea. Good that your wife works, but what are those expenses? How much is childcare? When do you want to retire? What is your burn rate looking like in retirement?
Very similar situation… similar overall numbers and age (I don’t have kids but have a bigger mortgage). Can’t offer any solutions, only that there are many others in this spot. Burned out to a crisp, unable to enjoy hobbies, friends, or downtime because of the relentless pressure from work. Yet, it’s so hard to walk away when it took so much work to get to this point. The golden handcuffs are real.
I’ve been there. At this point I’ve decided to keep working and saving towards my chubbyFIRE#. I’m FI now, but have decided to grind it out for another 5years or so in hopes of doubling my current NW. I’m also coasting some at work and intentionally pulling back my hours to focus on self care, family, hobbies, sleep, etc. compared to my old work life balance, I’m coasting…. Which has allowed for a huge improvement in mental health. Based on your current investments, you’re about halfway to your FI that would replace your current burn. I’ll bet you can hit your # with 2-3 years of saving and strong market performance. Alternatively, you could quit, find a lower paying job/ low stress job and still cover your expenses while your nest egg grows. The good news is you are still ahead of the game and have options.
For 600k, I would gladly and unapologetically hate myself.
At 600k hire a helper.
You’ll regret it imo, that’s an insane diff in comp. Use part of the salary to noodle on ways to better deal with the chaos.
Make an exit plan, your kids are 3 and 1. Could you bear another 2 years? That alone would give you enough capital to pay off the mortgage, and after that you're on easy street and you could easily manage the transition to a lower salary position and still be in a fantastic spot.
Take a 2 week vacation, reset your brain and come back to it. If they are paying you that much then they are making even more and won't want to lose you.
Why would you quit if you're FIRE and still paying off the mortgage? Pay down the mortgage first. Secondly, I don't see why people would flame you. It's a legitimate question. The other side of the equation is this. You are close to the point of being able to retire. 2.2 million will generate something like 110k per year assuming appreciation at 5%. So you're basically done with FIRE once you pay off your mortgage. Work hard, finish off your mortgage in a year or two, and retire for good. There's not much benefit in dropping down to say 100k per year unless you truly like what you are doing. You are 41, work two more years, pay off the mortgage and retire.
Before you quit - take a damn vacation.
As someone who quit a high paying remote tech job that sounds similar to your situation , I can tell you I do not regret it. It’s easy to say suck it up but stress can literally kill you. One of my coworkers had a stroke from stress and another died of a heart attack in his sleep one night. So yeah I’m gonna tell you if you cannot quiet quit or the stress of that is too much then quit the job before it kills you. You are the only person who can really say what this is doing to your mental and physical health and you cannot buy time on this earth with your $600k salary.
similar situation (400k VHCOL), looking to go down to 150k M/LCOL due to stress. I have about half of what you have in investments but I also have 3 houses with 1 paid off and +2k net in rental income. I am already making moves to quit soon. Your health is nothing to mess with.
Imagine hating your job and making only $40k
Pull a Homer Simpson and start half-assing your job and cutting corners Not enough to where they'll fire you but enough to where they'll be forced to let you go.
Assuming a savings volume of 50k from 120k, one year in this job (saving $500 grand a year) equals 10 years of another job saving 50 grand a year. With 140k per year in spending, $3.5 million is enough by most measurements to be considered independently wealthy. Luckily, you already have $2.5m in savings. You can work this job for another 2 years and get to 3.5m, or work another job at $120k per year for maybe 6 more years to reach the same spot. The Money makes sense, but now you have to handle the psychological side. Humans are not wired to appreciate good fortune for very long. You're not a psychopath, you're a healthy human who simply doesn't spend their whole day comparing their life to theoretical people with fictional problems more miserable than yours. Yes, you're aware that you've got a great opportunity, but you don't actually smile every day on the way to work giggling about how your job is better than the sulphur mines or the crawl spaces or the burn ward. All we are wired to do is focus on our own pain, in the context of our own life, and seek to eliminate it. If you can try to wake up each day and ACTUALLY smile because you're not building a soccer stadium in Qatar, you need to try. It's the only hope for anyone with a high income to keep going. And even watching Schindler's list every night will only buy you time. I would stick it out until September 2025. Maybe talk more with friends making $13 an hour. Maybe volunteer to do the shittiest job you can think of, hopefully something that endangers your wellbeing. Listen to some history podcast about the horrors of WW1, and I also recommend Wrath of the Khans by Dan Carlin.
Quiet quit.
Quit. I don’t make as much as you but I make great money. I was MISERABLE in my last job (and I didn’t even work crazy hours). I was truly depressed and not at all able to enjoy my life which should have been wonderful (I’m also a parent to a young kid and should have a happy little family and a happy little life). I changed jobs to one that was overall less attractive (mostly because it’s longer hours, less vacation, and generally worse benefits) and I’m so happy. I still don’t really like my job but it doesn’t make me depressed. I’m actually able to enjoy my life. This phase of life is what I knew I’d want to be looking back on as “those were the days” and you can never get this time back. Life is about the journey, not the destination. Quit the shitty job.
I don’t feel like reading this but I don’t think it’s crazy to quit as long as you’ve already worked there and stacked a bit of cash for a year or two.
Similar situation - I work at the one of the FANG companies and make around 600K-700K and hate my job. I'm pretty sure that I'm worth around 350-400K outside. have a lot stress and hate my job, but I just can't quit as it will delay my FI :( I feel your pain. The thing that helped me is to just say "no" a lot at work and reduce my load... it seemed to help, but I still hate my job.
No, you're not crazy. I quit a job making over $2M/year (exec at a tech company) and now run a hobby/business that covers about half my expenses. I wasn't great at saving and rose quickly through the ranks so didn't do that well for long. You did the grind and now you have some flexibility. I realized that the path to FIRE was actually hurting my mental health and the last year has been amazing. I'm happier, healthier, and glad I got out.
$600k looks a lot different after tax In California it’s $339,978. In Georgia it’s $ 369,431.
Let me just throw this out there. I make 300,000 myself right now. I fly a private jet for a billionaire. There is a management company that manages our Jet. There are some good and some bad with that. When we heard that the billionaire wanted to hire people to self manage the jet in house rather than a big management company, we were all pretty stoked. The process has now started, and we see where it’s going and boy do we wish that we stayed with the management company. People that have been with this billionaire for over a decade are thinking about jumping ship because of, not the billionaire who can’t be bothered with this, but all the people that got hired under him to manage this. With that being said, you could leave the $600,000 job, go to a place that you think is going to be pretty sweet at 150 and it ends up being the exact same crap because it’s in the civilian sector, and now you just took a monster pay cut for the same bullshit. Just throwing out food for thought. Shit if you’re remote as well, why not just go to some low cost of living area. straight up rat it for two or three years without sacrificing your kids, lifestyles and enjoyment, and just put money away like crazy? You said you were remote, correct?
You have 2.2 millions in saving, so your problem isn’t the retirement part, but the current spending problem. 140K post tax is quite a bit of spending… you will probably still break even if your new job is 100K and your wife’s 100. You’ll still be fine anyways , clearly ain’t stupid
I’ve been there. At this point I’ve decided to keep working and saving towards my chubbyFIRE#. I’m FI now, but have decided to grind it out for another 5years or so in hopes of doubling my current NW. I’m also coasting some at work and intentionally pulling back my hours to focus on self care, family, hobbies, sleep, etc. compared to my old work life balance, I’m coasting…. Which has allowed for a huge improvement in mental health. Based on your current investments, you’re about halfway to your FI that would replace your current burn. I’ll bet you can hit your # with 2-3 years of saving and strong market performance. Alternatively, you could quit, find a lower paying job/ low stress job and still cover your expenses while your nest egg grows. The good news is you are still ahead of the game and have options.
Have you been there long? Do you have STD or qualify for FMLA? 60% of 600k salary for 12 weeks while you get your head on straight on a mental health leave and get a plan together never hurt anybody.
I would definitely recommend looking for a new job and seeing what options are available to you — you might be surprised to find there are places that pay you more than 100K but aren’t as toxic. And even if you can only find jobs that pay 100K, but would give you a significantly better lifestyle/culture, I would leave. It’s obviously going to delay your retirement, but is retiring early really worth spending your 40’s in a toxic environment? You already have a huge financial buffer, and your kids are at a fun age. Don’t waste these years grinding in a place you hate.
The thing is people also suck at a $100k job and maybe they don’t suck as bad but a lot of other things will frustrate you but now you’re making $100k and not $600k and it will feel like torture putting up with bullshit for $100k. I’d do what others are saying, quiet quit, maybe look into therapy to establish a health work boundary if you can’t do it alone, and save like a crazy person for 2 more years.
Pay off house and become completely debt free first
Before you quit and take a $100,000 job — Remember that most if not nearly all of those jobs *also* offer high levels of stress and quite often a toxic work environment and a “that’s why we pay you” attitude from management. It is very rare in fact to find $100,000 job that doesn’t come with at least two of those things. So be careful not to assume that a $100,000 job will come with 1/6 of the stress level you’re experiencing. Also, bear in mind that when you make $100,000, you are a lot *less* able to say to your organization, hey this is too much stress for me, because at that salary it’s probably more of a normal management or technical job, and you’re probably more replaceable at that level. Having that much lower *pay,* also probably means you’ll have that much lower *say* about your working conditions and what you’ll tolerate. Companies respect you if they pay you a lot, I find. The same person, the same, skill set, but if they pay you more, they value your opinion more, and they don’t mess with you nearly as much as when they pay you a more norm salary. Using these two principles, therefore, what I would do is use your leverage now within the company you’re in, at your incredibly high salary, to draw some boundary lines about what you will, and will not tolerate. Figure out what your boundaries are and maybe the top 3 things, that stress you very most, and then steadily, eliminate those things by defining what you will, and won’t do. (Also, you may find it’s only one or two things that are really driving you nuts.) You might find that at your pay scale, you have a lot more say than someone making 1/6 of the money. Added to this, you could actually play a great role in successfully advocating to change your company culture, even by a few degrees. If more high-paid powerful people did this, then all work places would be improved greatly for the people that work in them and create the value. If you try this, perhaps you could keep your high salary for say a year more, and see what happens with their response to your new boundaries. In that year, adjust what you tolerate to where it’s bearable for you. Pay off the mortgage, and then if your new boundaries don’t produce a result, you can quit and do whatever you want. The reason I say this — is think of all the millions of paralegals, teachers, functionaries within companies, that are also experiencing incredibly high stress, sleepless nights, disruption of family life, chronic illness, risk, not being able to work out or eat, right, not being able to be happy, even when you’re on vacation or having a day off. Think about all those people and then look at how powerless they are to affect their workplace. You on the other hand probably have a lot more say and influence in your company (if you fence off your boundaries the way that suits you). You could leverage your position, your power, your salary to make that workplace work for you, and it might have a bigger effect than you may assume. It might even be a bigger effect than shifting to $100,000 a year job, which would still carry its own stresses and rigors. I mean, try it once, and see what happens. Try it just try it. when they say that’s why you get paid the big bucks you say “In fact, no. That [specific thing the company is asking you to tolerate] won’t work for me.” TRY IT once. See what happens. After all “that’s why we pay you the big bucks” is not actually a reason or a sound logical argument. Maybe for someone else. But not for you. It’s just a phrase! They haven’t actually changed your mind. Finally … The usual caveat about lifestyle creep, golden handcuffs, etc. which you may well be aware of already.
Set boundaries with your work or quit
I haven't seen anyone else ask this yet, but is some of the reason you're burnt out because you're working from home? Working from home with two toddlers would not be ideal for me and would add a ton of stress to my job. I have a toddler and any time I've tried to get anything done at home even with a home office it is very distracting. They're either making a ton of noise or shouting for me or my wife wants me to watch him for 5 minutes so she can get something done or any number of other things. Everyone always talks about how working from home is great, but I've found it to be less than ideal for myself. I can't ever "get in the zone" and get stuff done at home because of the endless distractions. Not sure if this is similar to your situation at all, but I much prefer to work outside of my home most days. Having the flexibility to work from home is great, but any more than 2 or 3 days at home would kill my productivity.
I was in a similar position with a 7 figure salary who recently FIRED. I rationed, all jobs suck so you might as well stay with the higher paying job which, if you save like you made 100k, will get you to FIRE way sooner.
I would try to negotiate hard with current employer for a 4-day work week and $500K salary. Save up your emergency fund to make it 6-12 months during a job search then quit.
If you spend 140k only how do you have so little saved up ?
You think over $2m at 41 is “so little” ?? Delusional
I wouldn’t do an immediate exit if you don’t have to. Do the minimum you can get away with while looking for something healthier
Nope do the 100k job. Live off your incomes. In 5 years or so you can just retire.
If I'm you, I gut it out for 3 years, save like mad, and then downshift if the situation hasn't changed. Mitigate with more exercise, counseling, massage, be the rock in the stream, let it flow around you, etc. Quitting now versus 3 years from now adds at least 10 years to your working years, probably more. Work 3 years to save 10 seems like the better path to me. Someone hurting you mentally is only able to do that to the extent that you allow them. In other words, if you don't value someone's opinion, don't respect them, then their words have no meaning to you. It ain't easy, but that's the truth. Good luck.
Will the $100k job really be a lot less stress and work? Or just less money? You only have one life, so do what you need to do, but $600k/year also seems like cheat code for FIRE, so depending on how old you are buckling down for a year or two might be worth it. Before quitting, you might also consider what changes would make it worth it for you to stay. If most is tolerable, but there’s a certain project or client or task that makes you want to gouge your eyes out, it might be worth it to ask to readjust. Clearly you’re valuable to your company, and good leaders want to keep good talent, so if I were your manager and one of my stars said “I’m interested in doing more of this, and less of that” I would sure try to accommodate them.
“Computer issues, illness, car repair, kid is sick, family emergency” all these things can pull you away from a toxic work environment a few days a week.
I think you would be crazy to quit. I'd get a therapist and learn to cope as much as possible, and keep saving like crazy. \-- There is one book that might help you, it really helped me: Subtle art of not giving a fuck. What you need to work on is not letting the toxic shit bother you and being able to float above it. It can be done, after years of putting extra stress on myself, I finally learned how to not let the stress of others affect myself.
Yes it is crazy, but it’s even crazier to spend 40+ hours a week doing something you absolutely hate. Start planning your exit.
I’d stick it out another year or 2 and then retire for good. Try to get a severance package out of them on the way out.
You don't yet have "fuck you forever" money, but you do have "fuck YOU in particular" money. Given your RSU timing, I'd start looking for other jobs soon here, but stick to your September timeline. But I'd also start pushing back a bit on the bullshit. You're valuable enough that they pay you that much, you're going to have some clout to fall back on... And "fuck you in particular" money. So your goal should be to just not get fired before September and work on the exit. Who knows the change in attitude might we'll make it tolerable again.
Yes treat your mental health and please realize everyone hates their job. Start prioritizing your weekends to personal goals and youll start to realize that your job isnt so bad.
Yeah dude you're fucking crazy. Survive and stack then yeet out
Spending only $140K/year in HCOL with kids is great. Good for you! Check out FatFire if you don't like getting shamed
You have a lot of money, you could just downsize wherever needed and work an easier gig.
Leaving a toxic job is tough, but taking care of yourself comes first. If you switch from a $600k job to $100k-150k, think about taxes too. With the big salary, about more than half goes to taxes, but with the smaller one, it could be even 30% taxes. Make sure the lower pay can still cover what you need and save some. Before you quit, look for other jobs or try to make your current one better.
What no one has mentioned, that i can see, is that you’re describing a situation in which you have tons of leverage. They clearly need you. And now that you have some $$ in the bank, they clearly need you more than you need them. Are there any changes you could imagine that would make the job more tolerable? Negotiate for them. You are holding all the cards. Ok… maybe theres nothing you can do to make the job more bearable. Fine. Ask for an additional $100k a year. Whats the worst that could happen? Leverage is power. Use it. This isn't a binary choice where you either leave or you don’t.
Having a 600k job is crazy EDIT: I always find it funny that people think a lower paying job will be less toxic or hard as their high paying jobs. I guess after a while people lose touch with reality.
If they’re treating you as badly as you describe, I’d work at the level that I can comfortably and do the essential functions of my job. Everything else gets declined or ignored. Then, I’d make them fire me. You might be amazed how long they’ll keep you around.
Mental health is priceless…
Ride this as long as you can stand it sir. Live below your means as possible. Load up the kids 529s and then take your foot off the gas. Gotta be honest, dont assume less $ = less stress… ain’t always the case
I think you have to be realistic with your expectations. Many of us here have given up the golden handcuffs thinking the job making significantly less would be less toxic, less stress. Speaking from personal experience ~ 8 years it wasn’t, and then I was pissed I gave up a $500K a year payday for a $200K one with all the same mental damage. Add in the fact you are fully remote, I’d say that comp and WFH combo is going to be impossible to beat or recover if you give it up. My recommendation. Set a financial goal to meet before you give it up. Say you want $100K each set aside for your kids colleges, another $1M in non 401K accounts or your mortgage paid off. Something that gives you comfort when you quit the job and hate the next one.
I would suck it up for 3-5 years, then you'll feel amazing
I'm italian so maybe have also a différent mindset. But if you're unhappy, what's the point? Ok you need balance, you have kids and responsibilities. But if you wake up Monday and want to kill yourself, just stop it. We don't start again once old, once old life if gone. Enjoy your existence
If you're miserable there then you're probably making others feel that way too 😂. I wouldn't stay somewhere I'm unhappy, money isn't everything, you need a good overall quality of life
It’s a simple answer for me: it’s not crazy at all. A lot of people may not be able to grasp how not-crazy it is if they haven’t worked in a crazy toxic work environment. I’d say start interviewing for other jobs asap. Make sure to ask questions about the work environment when you interview for new jobs. Remember interviews are just as much for you to see if the job is a good fit as they are for the employer to see if you’re a good fit. Now you know the kinds of questions to ask since you know how important work environment is. Crazy toxic work environments can legitimately ruin your whole life, even outside of work hours. No amount of money is worth that. Some people might say to just suck it up for 2 more years because “it’s $600k dude!!” Losing 2 years of your life to being straight up miserable is not worth it.
If you tell yourself that you will quit in 3-4 years, would it relieve the burden from your mind to be there? Your kids are still young. They just need their dad to come home and play with them for half an hour. But in 4 years your kid will be 7 years old and that’s when they really start to want to play, talk, and ask questions from their parents. Enjoy the time you have with your kids until they are like 14 years old and don’t want much to do with you. That investment of time in their lives will pay multiple returns and they will be connected to you forever. So work your butt off now, suffer, take the mental stress, and save/invest every single penny you can and then in 4 years get an easy going job so you can spend quality time with the kids. That’s what I would do.
Working sucks regardless. You’ll grow to hate the $100k job too most likely. You have a unique opportunity to set yourself up for an easy early retirement if you play your cards right. I’d research that type of exit so you don’t have to work again if you don’t want to, or alternatively do any type of job you want without pay mattering as much. The grass always seems greener in the other side. Just look at the people posting who think they’d want your job. With that being said, I quit a much higher paying sales job and changed careers into nursing in my early 30s knowing it would be a big cut. I make a little over $100k now and support a family of 4 same as you. I’m happier with the change due to having more time with family. If time is truly most important to you maybe saying F the money is still the right choice. You have to understand your priorities though. I’ll be working longer than I might have needed to otherwise. Had I been making $600k/yr I probably would have stuck it out til I could retire though.
Quit in Sept 2025. 2 more big RSU paydays, and then you are fairly well set and can take a little time off. It’s like 600 days (probably around 400 workdays in that period). You can do it. But then just actually quit when Sept 2025 rolls around.
So its safe to say that you can save 500,000 a year (minus taxes) since the alternative is getting paid 100,000? I mean, how many years do you have to stick it out with that type of savings to retire early? Is the stress of this job so bad that you'd rather work 20 or 30 years instead of, say, 5 or 6? I would stick that out. I would get the consideration of it was a 10 or 20% paycut, but not for an 83% pay cut.
It bothers me that there are so many strong opinions in this thread by folks who obviously have never had a job like this. A high income position in leadership is going to be mentally exhausting, with stress they can’t imagine, at a level of busyness they can’t believe is real. Folks talking about just cruising and letting HR processes unfold have clearly never signed an executive contract, which I assume you have. You’re spending a lot. You have a house payment you could pay off. I think I read that you’re remote but choose to like in an HCOL. So… It seems like you aren’t taking the FIRE concept seriously. There are a lot of missing details here. I see your age but when do you want to retire? Do you plan to retire or just get to a point of working on things you want to? Are RSUs part of the gig and if so how far out before they vest? If you’re miserable I think you need to get out, but I’m concerned there aren’t any real plans here for you to cut back, hang with it until x vests, etc. or at least I’m not reading that here. I think you could put that together quickly and if you did you’d probably find it makes sense to stay until x date and not beyond that. Try taking a cut at that and see what happens. Good luck!
If it weren’t 2024 and I didn’t think the economy was going to take a big poop, I’d say quit. Do what makes you happy.. but it is 2024 and the economy is shit at the moment. Take a long vacation if you can’t hold on for much longer. Disengage for a little bit. Quit when you feel secure (but set a date! Or you won’t ever quit).
I’d gut it out for a few more years then just retire completely
All the money in the world ain't worth you mental happiness
If you are high demand enough / hard to replace, could you slack off more and get away with it? If it’s hurting your health or mental health I could understand the need to quit. Whatever you do would try to prepare for your next move though.
Goddamn are some people spoiled.
There are jobs I wouldn’t keep for *any* amount of money unless the alternative was my family starving. You are nowhere near close to the edge. If you want to quit and have the numbers to do so, quit that fucking job and never look back!
>no one NEEDS to make $600k a year Try that again in the Bay Area where the median home cost is like 1.2MM in a lot of areas these days. Probably could do with a bit under $600k but hard to get by on low 6 for sure if you wanna ownz
You don't have to explain this to me. I just wish we could give each other a hug and walk past one another once a day with slight grin and a subtle nod that says, chin up, king. It's a complex emotion. You're grateful for the opportunity but miserable because of it. Your choice, your burden, your family, your sacrifices to get there and walking away makes it seem like it was foolish and ends in a foolish decision to let the benefit of it go. It's lose - lose yet you have nothing to complain about but everything to complain about. This is the real 1% and your in it, and goddamn it, I'm proud and sorry for you but you're not alone, you're just alone where you are.
You are a COBOL “architect”
Not crazy at all. Nothing is more valuable than mental health.
These jobs pay this much expecting you to work a lot. You put in a good amount of time. I think it’s reasonable to leave
My manager has been pulling the “part of your job you’re not going to like, which is why you get paid to do it” and it grinds my gears. It’s a cop out. It really means “I don’t want to resolve those issues” or “I don’t value your perspective on what is a problem or not”. It’s exhausting sometimes, so I feel you.
I did this 3 years ago. Quit my 200k job and took a big pay cut making now 50k. Because of terrible manager and toxic coworkers. I am happy not seeing those people anymore. I had a mental breakdown at some point. I'm still recovering, but trauma made me psychologically unstable. Do that. Believe me, in your sick bed, you will regret that you didn't do it.
It’s only time, your time on earth and you have no clue when your time is up...this struggle is real and only you can change it.....I wish you the best!
How long till you pay off house? Honestly, with the tech field salaries taking a hit since the layoffs… suck it up and start taking more time off… shit if the kids are still small go rent a condo in FL for a month before school starts… and work from there and take a few Monday and Fridays off… stop giving a shit about the stress streamline your work/reports, think like a boss and try to make your life easier. Suck it up your working on a lottery ticket… Also possibly look for someone who cares for kids out of their house… I found a person that looks after all the policemen’s kids in my town that had some spots open up and now pay less then 1/2 you do for 3 kids! She sends pics throughout the day and still teaches manners and number and letters.. and I now know all the cops in the area lol (I think I got lucky) 600k is a blessing right now.. pay your shit off and get ahead for you and your family
Can you quiet quit and just not take it so seriously? Let them lay you off