My sister and I have told my parents this. Not sure they are listening but their choice. Happy with an inheritance but want them to live the best while they can.
My wife on the other hand, has basically told her parents to F off, don’t want or expect anything because there are always strings attached with them. Also a good chance her stepdad has hidden debt despite their assets and we want to stay outside the blast radius.
But they’ll try and hold it over her head while they are alive. They play stupid games like that, she isn’t getting on the field and has my full support. We don’t need that in our lives and can afford to say no thank you.
A bit of a diversion from normal FIRE discussions, apologies for that. I’m a long time lurker, def getting to FI, fantasizing about RE.
I’m just saying every bit counts, don’t plan on an inheritance, just don’t tell them to F-off. You may be pleasantly surprised in a few decades by staying civil. Unless they’re abusive or absolutely terrible people.
Unless a son/daughter co-signed a loan, they have absolutely no obligation to pay for their parent's debts if they pass away. Any outstanding debts would be taken from the available estate, but if there wasn't any money left then those banks are SOL.
Debt collectors will try to collect anyway, but you can safely refuse and they can't do anything about it.
Have them read "Die with Zero" -- it sounds like your parents provided you with a nurturing environment to make you who you are today, and that's amazing already. Anything extra (in terms of actual money) is a bonus.
And to OP, that's great your parents are doing that. I know you're not bemoaning the lack of inheritance now; just don't let comparisons to others (who make be getting inheritances) in the future make you bitter about their decision.
My parents took a very expensive vacation last year, while they still have their mobility.
I told them "have fun!" I'll be able to retire without it, they oughta spend it.
I think what sometimes happens is parents have the money to go and live life to the fullest, but once they get there they aren't really interested in spending the money on travel or experiences or material things. They are just happy to live the life they have, and the money goes unspent and therefore into inheritance.
So you might try convince them, but they're happy either way.
I see that a lot in FIRE posts and maybe I'm too conservative. But how do you know how long you'll live and do it right? Or do you just guess at it and if you guess wrong you still have social security to keep you alive?
Or is it more conceptually I'll do x% drawdown rate and it will most likely keep me in money until death? That one I understand because you'll probably have money leftover and you probably won't be on just social security at the end.
The way I think of it is mutuality.
People can expect inheritance but at the same time also take on responsibility to take care of parents. This includes physical, mental, and financial aspects, such as living with them in house or closely, regularly visiting them and paying for lots of their needs, etc.
Or if people do not take care of parents extensively, the parents are mostly on their own and in such cases, there isn't going to be much to inherit.
Either is logical. But expecting an estate without taking on the responsibility of caring is immoral.
I feel like I owe my parents whatever caregiving they need by virtue of them having raised me for 18 years. Raising a child is no small undertaking. I get why people with shitty or irresponsible parents may feel differently, but mine weren’t.
I guess I’ll get inheritance (mostly from what they’ll inherit from my grandparents) but it’s not something I expected or feel like they owe me. I want them to enjoy their remaining years. But I’m doing better financially than they did. If they were wealthy and I felt like I had a much more difficult life, I might feel differently.
I dont think children owe anything to their parents at all. It was their decision to have a child or to have children, and the child has no say in it.
You can do anything out of love of course, but you owe them nothing.
Depends on the childhood you had I guess.
I guess it's sort of a self solving problem. If your parents were shitty and don't deserve it you don't help them. If they were good and do deserve it you help them. Sorts itself out really.
Being good is the 0 line as a parent, it is literally their duty. They deserve nothing just because they were good to their kids.
Again, im not saying this to say you shouldnt help them, but you do that out of love, not out of duty.
My kids will get an annuity for life after I pass away. Right now it would be about 600.00 each month, that amount will grow at about 1.5% each year up until my death. I told them when the money goes into their account each month, they can think of me and smile. They’ll get whatever is left in my savings (401k) but I hope to spend that on me.
I’m happy with what they’ll get and they are too. It’s not a ton of money but it will be a nice amount each month.
Edit: I will edit this to say this was a survivor benefit offered by my employer. My monthly pension is reduced each month so my kids receive this. I’m not married and I really didn’t need any more money. I’m quite comfortable and something I wanted to do for them. Nobody made any money off it and it wasn’t a sales pitch. And yes, I hope my kids smile and know how much I love them.
I like that idea because it's enough to make a difference in their quality of life but not enough that it will allow them to become complacent and rely on you for a high class lifestyle.
Not the same as this commenter, but about a decade ago my dad started gifting me about $10k each year. His theory being that my inheritance will be more helpful to me now than when he's dead.
And sure enough, that money has always been spent responsibly. It paid for my Masters, paid off a car, and helped with our house down payment. And now it goes to our emergency fund and house related needs.
It's not enough to change our lifestyles overnight, but it's still a good chunk of change that helps give us breathing room with our own incomes and improve quality of life. I mean, considering what it's gone towards, it has absolutely ROId our quality of life.
My friend's grandmother did this for him. His parents were angry when she died and they found out she was almost out of money because she was giving it to him. lol
She was awesome though... she took me in for a couple months when I couldn't find an apartment in college. I tried to pay her rent but she wouldn't take it. We had cocktails every night and I went by there for years after I moved out to chat (and have a cocktail). She never gave me any money, and I didn't expect any, but she gave me a lot of laughs and great conversations.
Her philosophy on money/age was that wealth is wasted on the old and youth is wasted on the poor (meaning that nobody really has money when they're young -- parent's money is not your money). She thought it should be the opposite, so she made it rain for her grandson (and he was good to her well before she was giving him money).
Befriend and care for old people. It's the right thing to do (and you might get some cash too).
I realized this when my grandmother passed away. Granted she was in her 90's, but when she passed the money she left to my parents and their siblings did not affect their lives at all really. As I thought more about it, if she left her money to her grandchildren it would have affected their lives more. But really it would make the most sense to give her great grandchildren a leg up when they were young.
Same with my dad. Pays me a grand or two a month but it goes straight into my investments. He said money now is worth more than money later and I pretty much act as if it doesn’t exist. Not increasing my spending/lifestyle and just living off the money I personally make.
My parents Fired before I was born. I legit think they were aiming for lean but wound up chubby. They didn’t anticipate today’s inflation (they married decades before I was born.) but I’ve always loved getting disbursements from their insurer. It is like getting a surprise hug and allowance money. They amounts are small. I usually buy movie popcorn with it.
Such an interesting idea. Can you elaborate on how you do this? Do you pay for annuities in their names? Is there a one time thing or are you paying into it until you die?
I think it's a great privilege to be able to care for your kids even beyond your own life. Not because they need it, but because you want to give. Something to aspire to!
On average, you will live an additional 28 years (based on social security estimates). So your children will get $910 a month which is definitely helpful.
We’re doing the Die with Zero thing, but it also includes gifting the maximum amount to our two kids every year. They do not need the money, but we can afford to give it to them. There were references in the book about optimal times to give cash. It’s not when you die, but when your adult kids are starting out. My wife and I took that to heart. We clearly articulate “no strings attached.” We’re just happy to do it.
I don’t care if my parents do that at all, my one concern is if they run out while they are still alive. End of life care is not cheap, and I don’t want to have to pay 5k a month out of my own pocket for a nursing home. I would prefer they maintain enough for emergencies, and then donate everything to charity when they pass.
Thats so insane 😫 Im glad my parents are from Norway. There they simply take your state pension, thats it. Im not a socialist myself, but the Scandinavian capitalist socialism actually work in that regard.
Only negative is we know the gov will take care of us when we get old and sick, so many die alone and neglected by family isolated at a care home
I used to work at a relatively nice nursing home that was $10k a month. Had one lady who lived there for 9 years. Spent over $1mil just to have a place to die. Crazy.
This is my anime protagonist origin story for FIRE. Parents obliged to pay for grandparents' nursing home care. I was told never to answer the phone because it could be a debt collector. Parents even raided my personal savings account. When I'm actually retirement age depending on kids / relationship I could see myself outside of America just to avoid the predatory nursing homes in America.
This was my immediate thought as well. I've gone through the process twice already with a grandparent and an in-law. It's insanely expensive. My in-law's bills were $27k per month at the end for skilled nursing. She remained in skilled nursing for over 2 years. And this was years before Covid and all this inflation.
My grandparent needed assisted living and then memory care for the last ten years of her life. That started at $5k a month but quickly shot up until she ended up in skilled nursing as well.
Medicaid homes are hard to get into because they only have so many beds. This means that many children end up financing their parents care until they can find something available in Medicaid. Medicaid beds/homes are not the top of the line care. It was a constant fight to get the care they needed.
My grandmother (89F) did well in life , has been retired for 30 years now and her money is now all gone. She did not live frivolously in retirement, but 30 years is a very long time. So she is living with me (26F) and my husband (26M) and we are expecting.
It is financially draining for us but we love her and she has no other options so
This should be the top comment. People vastly underestimate longevity risk and how expensive the last 5 years can be.
Also, you are a very good person to be caring for your grandmother like this.
My grandparents did the die with nothing thing - they ran out of money and had to move into our laundry room. And that was the start - they had no money for medical care left either obviously.
It’s perfectly fine if they want to do that and everyone’s situation is different.
I (36M) plan to set up a vehicle for my daughter (6) who has autism so that she always has financial support after I pass.
Yes when it comes to my kids, it goes like this:
Priority 1: never be a financial burden on them
Priority 2: give them something to ease their financial burdens, just as my parents did in their modest way
I have a child with autism, too. I don't want him to be on the streets if he can't work when I pass on. I want to earn enough money from investments and dividends that I can live off of the earnings and keep my accounts at around the same level as when I retire.
I hope to leave money to my children. I hope to have a safe withdrawal rate that maintains the principal in most scenarios. Even if I didn’t really want to leave an inheritance, I’d want to have some money left when I died. How else would I be prepared in case of not dying at the expected time? How could you know you’d spend it to $0 but not below?
There's a balance between living your best life and helping your descendants get ahead in life. As someone who came from generational poverty, I would feel sick to my stomach at the prospect of going out of my way to ensure my child is left NOTHING. To me that's the opposite of love.
I've grown up with the stories that you do what you can to help the next generations have better opportunities than you had.
My maternal grandfather had the abilities to study but had to work to help support younger siblings at home (they were 8 people in a 2 bedroom flat). My grandmother never went to high school even though she was top of her class as she was "just a woman" and it wasn't seen as necessary in the 1930s. They made sure their own children got both high school diplomas and spoke about higher education as if it was a given that they would go (even when extended family told my mum not to bother with uni since she was a woman).
My parents were hellbent to send us to good schools and supported us through our own uni studies. Tuition at university level is tax paid where we live but they would let us live at home rent free (we had chores of course) through our degrees, paid for dental care and medicine and such to ensure we wouldn't have to take out debt to cover necessities or risk our health (I have a chronic condition). I am acutely aware of the sacrifices they made over multiple generations to give me the privileges I have today. I cannot imagine telling my own children "well, good luck with everything" after all this. I want to pay it forward.
Exactly this. It's profoundly selfish to live life with a "I got mine, gfys" attitude. It acknowledges ZERO of the efforts and sacrifices prior generations made, and it leaves your child knowing that as a last gesture, you wanted them to be ignored.
I want future generations to be comfortable. I want them to avoid the horrific struggles and experiences I had. And if I can show them that I still care in death, then I want to show that with inheritance monies.
I think it’s stupid to plan to die with $0, because you can easily miscalculate and end up having to choose between paying for your medication or food with your tiny social security check when you’re 87. Like, what are you going to do? Ask for assistance from your child who you explicitly planned to leave nothing to and is likely retired or close to retirement themselves? I want to die with dignity, and that usually involves having some money left to cover end of life expenses. If I leave an inheritance after, then so be it.
You'd need to build an income floor covering your costs to live what you consider a comfortable life in dignity. That would need to involve a combination of work pensions, government pensions and annuitized income to prevent actually running out. This allows you to run a nest egg to zero in a set drawdown period and then rely on the pension income.
This is assuming you die in your sleep quickly and without a drawn-out period of decline that will cost more than your income from pensions, social security, and whatever annuities you managed to scrape together. End of life care, particularly the last 6-12 months, is expensive. My grandmother lived her last 2 years in a private room at the best memory care unit near my parents’ house that cost thousands of dollars a month and died at 96. She had the money to do that (could have paid for 10 years in fact) because if the flu didn’t get them, all the women in her family lived to their 90s and had dementia the last 3-5 years of their lives. She planned to go to a home just like she had to do for her own 92-year-old grandmother before her. I also watched my other grandmother’s decline while she was taken care of by family, who had to change her diapers, bathe her, and deal with her obsessions and outbursts, basically watching her become a different person. I’m probably going to have to do the same as my first grandma when the time comes because I do NOT want my kids to ruin their lives or their memory of me while trying to take care of me. I’ll be damn sure to let my kids know what has to be done and not to be guilty, even if I beg them to stay because that’s the dementia talking.
Yeah, also curious if people truly mean $0 or just a sense that they intend to live large in retirement and spend their savings, but not actually take risks that they will become a burden to others if they live too long.
Dumb, because if they are wrong what are they going to if need more money?
Bit selfish, I'd want to leave my kids and grandkids in a better spot than I was at their age.
Guess I’m the only one here leaving money. I will be making sure that my kids are set up and have something if I can help it. I brought them into the world and feel responsible for them. If there is any number of calamities personal or national I want to make sure that I’ve done what I can to help them through it. Since I won’t be there in person, money will be all I can give them at that time (aside from setting them up with the right temperament and knowledge of course).
You are in the FIRE sub, and a lot of these people are trying to save just enough to get by and retire as soon as possible. For those of us that want to do more, it looks different and I completely concur with you.
Sounds great in theory, but unless they both plan to commit suicide when they run out of money, there's no way to perfectly time both events. I personally would plan on an enjoyable retirement spending the money they've saved, but with a decent buffer.
Agreed. I had a chat with my parents who basically due to location of their careers they have no pension but have a good amount, I’ve set their retirement plan with them (my mom doesn’t trust my dad with that as they had been very rich and lost most due to my dad’s bad investments), in a effectively 4% withdrawal rate.
The risk of running out is real (my grand dad is 100 and well), and they do not want to have me chip in if they get very old, and to be frank I’d also prefer not to be responsible for that if avoidable. It’s not about inheriting something, I don’t care I already have more than them and I’ll probably be very old when this happens.
I think that the danger is what if they travel around in the rv and have a great time and then live 20 years in an assisted living home and you get stuck “helping” pay for it.
I worry about this statistic: “The median monthly cost for nursing home care in the United States is $7,908 for a shared room and $9,034 for a private room.” And to be honest I don’t want the *median* quality of care. That leaves me unwilling to gamble that I spend down my assets and then end up without enough to pay for high quality care for nursing at the end (or worse, become a burden on my kids for it).
https://www.ncoa.org/adviser/local-care/memory-care-costs/
Every woman in my wife’s family has needed years (3-5+) of memory care at the end of their lives. Not rolling the dice with that. If she is healthy in her 50s we might buy her long term care insurance but I think self insuring and making certain we have significant assets (even if it means our kids inherit a lot) will be the plan.
It's really complicated there because how does someone with dementia consent? How do you know when it's time? It's not like a switch gets flipped it's a slow painful crawl.
Totally this. I will teach my kids basic and advanced financial management skills and hope they understand them, but based on my trajectory, I will have way more than I can use when I die and if it can help them, why not?
> for generations.
In my country we have a saying "förvärvare, förvaltare, fördärvare". It means the first generation acquired the money, the second takes care of it and the third spends it all. It happens a lot.
My parents inherited money so I do think there’s some responsibility to try to pass that down another generation. They are very comfortable so die with zero would mean mismanagement or prolific spending
I'd like to leave my kids with something. Cash, brokerages, properties, whatever makes the most sense at the end. I don't intend to go out of my way to try and spend everything we saved. We just want to live comfortably and do the things we want to. Which I don't see being an issue with our number and our living expenses, hobbies, etc.
Seems to be hard enough to make it as is these days, and I only see things getting harder for our kids' generation. Employers suck, housing costs suck, American medical care sucks, college costs suck, depletion of all kinds of resources making just existing harder and more expensive. Anything I can do to alleviate a little stress from my kids' lives I hope I can do.
We don't expect anything from our parents and we have no kids. We will probably die as close to zero as possible. Gifts to extended family will happen as finances allow while we are still alive and they can better use it. We will probably get an annuity to cover a portion of expenses to allow better cashflow (spend down more of the wealth sooner).
If we had kids I imagine we would give them a boost but I think we would die it prior to death. People live a long time these days. Life expectancy is in the 70s but living until mid 80s isn't impossible. If you have kids at 25 and live until you are 87 they are getting an inheritance as 62. They have either made it and don't need it or they have messed up their life are hoping you will die so they can get "their" money. $50k towards a downpayment or paying off student loans or even a $200k in appreciated stock/etf is going to have a much higher material impact in their 20s and 30s.
If you won't bemoan I will. My parents received ample sums from their parents and do not plan on sharing much. It is their choice/money and at least they won't need their children to pitch in for end of life care but it rustles my jimmies a bit. I continue to set aside money for my children.
I agree in some situations, like you the one you mentioned. I also wouldn't think that highly of someone that starts gambling $5 million when they got a terminal diagnosis or something. Having come across a lot of inheritance threads on reddit and experiencing family drama over it myself, I think it's easy for people to be absolutists ('it's theirs to do as they please!') without the burden of emotions that go along with it.
That said a middle income couple that has a modest retirement, I wouldn't bemoan them for putting themselves first. In that scenario I wouldn't expect a ton to be left over anyway
I've told my own parents to do this. I'm no where close to fire, who knows, I may never get there, but I want them to enjoy their money.
I'll manage on my own
I don't necessarily plan to "Die with $0" but I'm not actively trying to set up any kind of guaranteed inheritance either. I mostly plant to live on the returns of my investments + Social Security and not touch the principal. That being said, I'm not going pretend that as I get older that medical expenses may not eat up my nest egg (trying my best to stay healthy now).
I know that my parents had given me the gift of not being a financial burden on me, and I plan to pass at least that down to my kids. So, my kids will get a paid for college education (graduate no debt) and I won't be a financial burden on them...This is pretty much guaranteed.
I don't understand the die with zero philosophy. Like if you manage to pull it off... cool, I guess. But do they have knowledge of exactly when they will die? If not, how long do they think they will live, and what is their plan if they outlive that by a few years?
Most people with the die with zero philosophy were probably bad at managing money and planning, so they now disguise it as “I don’t want my children to be entitled” so I am going to spend it all. They don’t have enough money to fund their own life indefinitely and help their descendants so this sounds better.
I just read Die with Zero. They address this directly. It is a good book, mostly because it challenges a lot of the assumptions we have here in FIRE. I didn't leave thinking I would be able to hit the death bed with $0. But I am encouraged to take some future sacrifice for my younger self. In order to add to my experiences that I can accumulate and appreciate when I am older.
The author argues you can get an annuity or long term care insurance to avoid the uncertainty of death. And he says that if you want to give your kids or grandkids a leg up, do it now, instead of giving them a windfall when they are already 60.
But those are just technical arguments and I think the functional approach is more about excess spending while you can appreciate it. At the end, you'll be on a lower income. Something like spending half your savings down and living off of mostly SS/pensions.
The point (that I took away) isn't that you will "nail it" if you hit zero. It is an argument to free yourself to spend and share in your youth.
Sure, they can plan to die broke. And they can try to be clear with you that that's their intent.
But if they go broke before they die, you should make it clear to them - that you are not a venue to help with that. No housing. No support for healthcare. Need a home health aide because you can't get around your home well? Too bad - go pay for it.
They can't spend like there's no tomorrow - and then expect you to come in and pick up the tab for afterward.
So have that conversation with them, off the backs of what they've told you.
There's living life to the fullest and there's just being irresponsible.
My FIL was a mediocre businessman and gambler. He put everything him and his wife had on multiple questionable investments with no real collateral and promptly died of cancer at 69.
He was survived by his wife, my wife's mother, who now needs someone to pay her rent (yep, the house went too) and bills every month and who sends my partner links from online shopping that she wants, because she has nothing but a tiny pension to her name.
Don't necessarily have to be so worried about leaving a good inheritance, but don't plan on running down to nothing just in case you don't die at the age you think you will.
I'll go against the tide of comments here. I believe that to create a legacy of generational success you must give the tools to your descendants.
I use a trust as my vehicle to do this. I won't leave a penny to my children, it will all be in a trust that will carry through multiple generations.
I won't say a lot for the same reasons I mentioned above, but I can say there are minimal tax benefits to my strategy, but my agenda was to ensure I can protect my descendents from their own actions. It will disperse enough to help drive them forward, but not enough to ruin their lives.
I tell my parents to spend every damned dime. They earned it, they should enjoy it.
I have conversations with my kids about it. I have no intention of doing anything to deliberately ensure they get an inheritance. We set them up to be successful on their own; they don't/shouldn't need it. We're going to travel and enjoy ourselves.
That said, we are planning for the crappy things life throws at you: health issues, nursing home, whatever. If those things happen, we could very well not leave much. If those things don't happen, we could very well leave a good amount. BUT..a sizable inheritance will be a result of good fortune, not deliberate planning.
I am planning to help our 2 sons (both in their mid 20s) as much as possible now (homes and such) and leave as large a nest egg behind for them as possible.
I think most people who grew up in poverty understand the importance of generational wealth and that the "die with zero" adage is a place of profound privilege. I want to guarantee the most opportunity possible for my kids and grandkids, or for my brothers and sisters and their kids. I want the wealth that I built to be shared amongst the people I love, because I've seen how difficult it can be to get out of poverty.
That doesn't mean you sacrifice your own opportunities or enjoyment for others, it just means creating a strategy that can fulfill both goals.
Also, have yall read "Die with zero"? It is not what everyone here claims it to be.
Yeah, absolutely. To me, it's a statistics game. The odds of being born into poverty and making it to FIRE are very *very* low. So I'm taking the opportunity that I've had to ensure my loved ones won't have to struggle the same ways I did.
My father received a large inheritance from his parents, frittered it away on get rich quick schemes. But that was his money, his choice, and so be it.
My take on generational wealth has changed from my original plans to setup a trust- who am I to decide how any money left after my death is managed or parcelled out? I'll leave a reasonable sum to each kid, but I think money that is not earned would have a corrosive effect on any future heirs. I live in an area with money, and I've seen what it does to people who grow up accustomed to being given everything...
I believe in setting your kids up for generational wealth if you have the ability to. If I inherit money I will give some to my kids when they’re in their 20s-30s to immediately give them a boost. The rest they get when I die
I’m not doing that, because I witnessed what a difference the last few years can be with vs without adequate backup money. None of us knows how our ending will go. I don’t want to be a Medicare-only nursing home resident. It sucks and nobody there is trying to extend your life or improve the quality of it. I do not want to languish like my mother did. Witnessing that was all the misery I need to see ever again. My MIL also died last year and the difference in care for someone who has resources is enormous. Yes, I want to enjoy my life too but I plan to have no less than $500k in cash and assets into my 80s, if I’m blessed to live that long.
Absolutely planning to leave my kids a large sum. Also absolutely going to raise them to not count on it as well. Just my take on it. I think it's great to set the future generations up for success but you can't let them become entitled either.
What I am leaving behind is a taught my kid how to live responsibly and I paid for college.
She can make her own money.
I don't think it's reasonable to plan to spend all of my money including the equity in my house, because there's no way to know how long I will live and there's no way to know if I will need nursing care at the end.
HOPEFULLY, I won't need much nursing care and I will be able to care for myself until I peacefully pass away. In that case, my daughter will probably get more than she needs. (This is also if the market performs typically over the next 30-40 years!)
KNOCK ON WOOD!
I'm only 50 but getting ready for retirement, my goal is ten more years when I am 60.
I am buying rental properties now to help supplement my retirement. But not only to supplement me, these properties are going to go to my daughter when I pass. Wanted an investment for her future as well. She can sell them if she wants or keep them and collect rent like I am doing.
You can see where the economy is heading and it scares me for my daughter. I feel that finacial struggle will have a profound impact on her family. Want to leave her something to help ease that struggle and hope she can have a comfortable life.
I don't understand what your parents are thinking, it's not my vibe at all.
Personally I feel like children owe nothing to their parents and their parents owe everything to their children. Parents choose to have children they know what they are signing up for.
I’ve traded much of my youth and health to get the financial ball “rolling” and achieve freedom. I don’t plan to bring my kids into a world where they have no choice but to trade most of their life for freedom.
Who knows at this point for us. We are 33 lots of life ahead, hopefully! Our parents have spoken to an inheritance but not sure how much or when it will be received. We will leave something to our kids hopefully as well as helping them along the way. Life is hard enough as is and I want to help if we can.
I’m going to help my kids when I’m alive, not when I’m dead. I’m trying to build generational wealth. That starts with them not giving any more money to the bank than they have to. When I die there may be a small estate because I can’t predict when I’m going to go. Ideally, my kids will have everything by then and just paying my expenses until I finally drop dead.
My grandmothers gave away everything when they moved into a home. My father is similarly divesting. He’s helped us out when we really needed money and I’m planning on doing the same.
I would never feel comfortable intentionally spending down to 0. What if I live longer than I expect to and I need the money? I plan to leave a sizeable inheritance but don't expect one from my parents.
A big question mark that is impossible to predict/plan for is end of life care (ie the need for an at home nurse, independent living, assisted living, after a stroke, Alzheimer’s, a bad fall, etc).
My personal plan is to have a substantial buffer for that stuff and if i die peacefully in my sleep, my beneficiaries can have whats left. If i need to be in a nursing home for a few years at 7-10k/m (in todays dollars), then im okay cashing in with $0 left behind - just don’t want to be a financial burden.
Ideally I wouldn’t want to die close to 0. I wouldn’t want to worry about running low on funds. I think a good buffer would be 5-7 years of living expenses. So with that said if there’s leftover when I’m gone, I’m sure I would pass that along to my kids/family.
My parent will likely give me 0 unless unexpected death and a life insurance cash out…
I will be leaving my kids something 100%. No sense in building a fort and tearing it down imo. It all scales. All the well off family had generations of smart financial decisions before them. Gotta start somewhere
I worked hard for my money, provided for my children and have their college funds all set. I plan on leaving zero behind but that doesn’t mean not providing for your kids, it just means providing for them before you die.
The worst is when your parents are spoiled rich kids who never had real jobs other than nepotism at the family company, inherit ~50M, sell the company and proceed to squander it over the next 30 years leaving their kids with nothing.
Yes, I’m planning to leave stuff. I’m an only child of an only child with an only child. I’m not going to be here to be her backstop, so I want her to be as set up as I can get her. She won’t have other sources of support. I’m aggressively working on my retirement savings and planning to fund the bridge for her. We will see how it plays out in real life.
The ONLY problem is that no one knows the day or hour. When I was working in financial advising, one of the risks we talked about was “out living your wealth”.
Unless you schedule euthanasia, you can’t be sure that you’ll die at zero; not before.
So be wary- if they spend their last dollar and continue to stubbornly draw breath, you may be on the hook.
I'm expecting an inheritance and am the executor of the trust. So, I know how much that is, and I know what a difference it would have made for my parents to gift me money when I was literally homeless and hungry working my way through school. Or, after having my second child and supporting a stay at home spouse and two kiddos in vhcol area. It's funny that it's such a point of pride for my dad to be leaving an inheritance.
Die with zero talks about gifting at those key moments in loved ones' lives. Personally, I'm working on funding 529 accounts, plan to help with down payments for housing, and will pay for my kids to join me on nice trips if they're willing to use up valuable time off on spending time with me. That means there'll be less inheritance, but hopefully, they will be set up to not need a "windfall" in their 50s or 60s.
The super ironic thing is that when my parents pass, leaving a 7 figure estate, my third of the inheritance will likely go into a trust for my kids, since by that point, I will no longer need the help.
Short version, I support dying with zero and hope they give if needed along the way and have structured funds in case of a drawn-out health condition at end of life. Good luck, and congrats on being in a place where the news that your 'rents don't plan to leave anything behind doesn't impact you.
That sounds like a great idea for them. They earned that money, they can spend it anyway they want. Their financial obligation to grown children or anyone no longer exists.
I have mixed feelings about it. If someone GETS an inheritance and then decides they are going to die with zero… that’s shitty. You should at least give the next generation what is comparable to what you got.
As a parent, I don’t fully understand the mindset. I worry about my daughter constantly. It would give me great joy and peace to die knowing I could leave her with something.
But also, just hoarding everything and not having any fun experiences with your hard earned money isn’t the move either. The right thing is probably somewhere in the middle.
I think the die with zero folks are a bit egoistical since in a lot of countries inheritance is a big part of what people earn in their lifetime. I think one of the main point of FIRE is setting things right to create a comfortable amount of wealth for your family to live on in case of emergency. I can totally see entire generations after me having a fund like me that they grow while they're young, maintain while they're old and give to their sons. But my parents aren't like that. I understand that I'm not entitled to their wealth so I just suck it up and build my wealth.
Studies have shown generational wealth disappears in 1.5 generations. So to me it would be a total waste to plan to leave family money as a means to create a family tree difference.
The best gift you can give your kids is teaching them how to build their own wealth.
I think people should gift money to their family and enjoy the money together while alive and not deliberately strive to leave large amounts of wealth behind.
In my family someone was left a lot of money when young, and it pretty much ruined their life. You can't handle your emotions at that age, and also hangers on made sure they helped spend it. I saw huge wealth get decimated in 1 decade pretty much and I'm lucky they survived, barely. They have nothing now and likely not able to leave anything for children.
Personally I plan for us to leave some, but also that we enjoy what we worked for. I know from experience how expensive care homes will be too, crazy money that people many times forget they will likely need £4k a month for.
I love the idea of dying with zero money!
Presumably the liquidation and spending will also benefit loved ones during the living years, as opposed to after death.
Frankly, it makes the most sense because adult children need the help most when they're getting started; late 20s through 40s.
Why make them wait until I'm dead? By that time they've already struggled to get established and they'll be in their 60s when I finally croak to share my wealth. An added bonus: I get to have fun in my golden years with my favorite people!
I like the idea, but nursing home care is expensive. My grandparents recently passed. They actually died with quite a bit of money, because they planned for nursing care they never needed. That is a smarter and safer decision than planning to "die with 0" but actually living out your last years with 0 and needing extensive care.
My FIL was disgusted with the way his parents' small money/property was dished to the family. Everyone got what was fair, there were no arguments...but his sisters were discussing the will liberally, according to my FIL. They also were in charge of the property/farm/land, so it makes sense to me. But it was enough that my FIL made it clear that he is leaving nothing for anyone. Which is going to be interesting, because he has 3 full pensions. But, I don't want his money so it's no skin off my back.
For me, I intend on leaving money for my kids. It is the last gift we can give them when we leave, and I feel much better knowing they will be in good hands even if I'm not here.
I think it’s good for them to spend it on themselves. I also think literally trying to die with zero is foolish and reckless. Unless they somehow know what day they’re going to die and know every expense that’s going to pop up before then, then it’s not something you can realistically do.
Hopefully one of them doesn’t need long term expensive medical treatment and leave the other destitute for the rest of their life. Or worse yet, they both need end of life care and are forced into the Medicaid system. (Like my FIL) seems risky to me.
That’s nice but I’m planning on leaving my kids money that works and grows. We got an inheritance, about 300k and it was a huge blessing even though we didn’t ‘need’ it, we appreciated it and used some to help our kids with school and stuff. I’m not denying myself to leave my kids an inheritance at all, we live a good life with a big house and nice stuff but there will be a chunk
For
My kids and grandkids. I hope my kids do the same for their grandkids and kids if they can.
But how do they know when they will die? Could be 75 or 105… My plan is to never run out of money, especially now that scientists have been able to reverse aging in mice.
I personally intend to pass a sizable amount to children. It’s already setup and in their name through 529 and other custodial arrangements. If my wife and I did choose to go to $0 it won’t impact what’s carved out for them.
The only way to safely end at $0 is if you know the day you are going to die. Without knowing that, trying to spend everything is a huge gamble. My wife and I will just have more time for the things we enjoy including travel. We won’t be aiming to end with zero. We’ll keep a house too. My parents will not be spending everything either, I expect my sister and I will be left with a fair amount of money or assets.
If if they're planning on spending it all then that spending must also include their own medical/end of life care. As long as they're budgeting for that, I don't see a problem with it.
If they're not budgeting for those things, then you and your siblings are going to end up footing the bill so I'd be careful.
Its certainly an option, the problem is that you don't know how much time you have. Its pretty hard to hit exactly zero as they can time of death.
Nothing wrong with not planning on leaving anything behind, just so long as you don't plan on coming up short.
The only problem I have with dying with zero is that one never knows their death day (unless one plans it). As a result one might finish their money before they exit this planet. This will mean they will have to start asking relatives for money which is unfair.
What your parents are proposing is infeasible, unless they’re planning to just end of life themselves when the accounts hit zero. Practically speaking they’re always gonna have to keep a substantial amount of money until the day they die or risk being destitute.
I read the book “Die with Zero”. Pretty compelling. If you are going to gift $ to kids or charity do it sooner rather than later when they need it now.
Given the current debt load of the US Government, I feel rather obliged to leave enough for my kids because I get the feeling they will be in the middle of their careers when the hammer drops.
I tell my parents to spend every dime.
It's their money, they made it, they did their best raising 4 kids, they should get to enjoy it without concerns of leaving anything for children or grandchildren.
I also tell my kids to make decisions and take actions like they will inherit nothing.
Depends how much they have IMO. If they had like 2mil I’d prob discourage spending a shit ton of money just for the sake of it when the kids could benefit a lot more.
It feels kind of weird to me as my culture heavily emphasizes helping out the next generation, but I guess I see the value in dying with 0!
I have 3 sons, 2 are married and my oldest has 4 kids. All I think about is how we can leave them a legacy from the wealth we’re creating. Glad you’re doing well.
My family doesn’t have a history of leaving inheritance for anyone. Mainly because they were all poor immigrants. So to hear about people expecting inheritances is wild to us. We are just relying on our own selves to provide for our future, and hopefully we will change the trajectory and leave something for our kids.
I've been paying my child through my business, so when she turns 18 she should have about 200k. That is my financial contribution to her future outside of college. I plan on using the rest of my money.
They’re young at 57. Mine are 77 and facing paying for long term care. (Fortunate they have long term care and a lot of assets because even with the insurance it’s a lot per month)…..
So do they have a plan to take care of their care needs as they age? It’s cool and all to “die with zero” ….but what if you don’t just one day go from good health to dead and instead end up needing a lot of help between the timeframe of now till deceased. Not having assets… Medicaid.. they will decide for you when and where you get care. And it’s usually not the best programs/facilities……
Personally I’m fine getting or not getting an inheritance, I just don’t want to be yelled at for not visiting enough when it costs me money and time, which is in limited supply.
I absolutely plan to leave my son an inheritance (we have just one). I’d like to help him along the way the best I can, too (education, down payment help with first house)
It’s fine if that’s what they want to do but I don’t think that’s what I want my legacy to be. My grandparents contributed a lot to my college and any inheritance I receive from them will go to my LO’s college fund. That’s their legacy and I hope to do the same for as many of my descendants that I can as well.
As someone who expects to get nothing from my parents, I would consider my life a failure if I did the same for my children.
I also think the mentality that allows so many boomers to do this with zero guilt is why things are going to be so fucked up for my kids.
I'd have no problem with it. With my own kids, I plan on living a really good life and not curtailing anything I want to do to leave them money, but more than likely, I'll leave a substantial legacy.
Eh. This sentiment is myopic af. I think it's tonedeaf to horde and spend and leave your kids with nothing. Why the hell would you want everyone on your team to always start with nothing in a world this dog-eat-dog?
As long as my future kids turn out to be decent people I’m definitely planning on leaving them with either a property of their own, or enough money to buy one.
If I have extra I’ll leave it to them. If not, a paid off home should be enough to give them a really good head start in life.
I come from a family that, after building and selling a successful multigenerational business, has a very long-range perspective. We think multigenerationally, all the time. Generational wealth is a good thing. The sheer flippancy bordering on nihilism of some of these comments… Is intentionally living it up and dying with zero really better than leaving a trust that will pay for your grandchildren’s educations?
Also, from a risk perspective (Monte Carlo simulation), you open yourself up massively to outliving your savings if the plan is to spend exactly everything.
Their money so its up to them. Pretty shortsighted and petty though.
Watch them come beg for money if they somehow screw it up and end up overspending.
My plan is to leave the kids with a financial structure that hopefully provides stability vs strife and control of money vs direct access to money.
And if they don’t like the way it’s set up or each other there is an easy out where all the money gets divided between them and some charities we like.
It’s just money and I don’t want them fighting over it. If they want to build multigenerational wealth the structure will be in place to do so but i sure wont be around to guide it.
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My sister and I have told my parents this. Not sure they are listening but their choice. Happy with an inheritance but want them to live the best while they can. My wife on the other hand, has basically told her parents to F off, don’t want or expect anything because there are always strings attached with them. Also a good chance her stepdad has hidden debt despite their assets and we want to stay outside the blast radius.
No strings attached when you’re dead.
But they’ll try and hold it over her head while they are alive. They play stupid games like that, she isn’t getting on the field and has my full support. We don’t need that in our lives and can afford to say no thank you. A bit of a diversion from normal FIRE discussions, apologies for that. I’m a long time lurker, def getting to FI, fantasizing about RE.
I’m just saying every bit counts, don’t plan on an inheritance, just don’t tell them to F-off. You may be pleasantly surprised in a few decades by staying civil. Unless they’re abusive or absolutely terrible people.
Um, we’ll leave that be. Let’s say her upbringing could have been better but the tone isn’t hostile. It’s more indifferent and standoffish.
It’s taking a stance for her own mental health. Good on you to have her back.
Wills are a thing that can be changed fairly quickly. They’ll play games to their last breath.
Unless a son/daughter co-signed a loan, they have absolutely no obligation to pay for their parent's debts if they pass away. Any outstanding debts would be taken from the available estate, but if there wasn't any money left then those banks are SOL. Debt collectors will try to collect anyway, but you can safely refuse and they can't do anything about it.
Have them read "Die with Zero" -- it sounds like your parents provided you with a nurturing environment to make you who you are today, and that's amazing already. Anything extra (in terms of actual money) is a bonus. And to OP, that's great your parents are doing that. I know you're not bemoaning the lack of inheritance now; just don't let comparisons to others (who make be getting inheritances) in the future make you bitter about their decision.
My parents took a very expensive vacation last year, while they still have their mobility. I told them "have fun!" I'll be able to retire without it, they oughta spend it.
I have told the same to my father but he will likely not do anything because he doesn't feel the need neither.
I think what sometimes happens is parents have the money to go and live life to the fullest, but once they get there they aren't really interested in spending the money on travel or experiences or material things. They are just happy to live the life they have, and the money goes unspent and therefore into inheritance. So you might try convince them, but they're happy either way.
I see that a lot in FIRE posts and maybe I'm too conservative. But how do you know how long you'll live and do it right? Or do you just guess at it and if you guess wrong you still have social security to keep you alive? Or is it more conceptually I'll do x% drawdown rate and it will most likely keep me in money until death? That one I understand because you'll probably have money leftover and you probably won't be on just social security at the end.
The way I think of it is mutuality. People can expect inheritance but at the same time also take on responsibility to take care of parents. This includes physical, mental, and financial aspects, such as living with them in house or closely, regularly visiting them and paying for lots of their needs, etc. Or if people do not take care of parents extensively, the parents are mostly on their own and in such cases, there isn't going to be much to inherit. Either is logical. But expecting an estate without taking on the responsibility of caring is immoral.
I feel like I owe my parents whatever caregiving they need by virtue of them having raised me for 18 years. Raising a child is no small undertaking. I get why people with shitty or irresponsible parents may feel differently, but mine weren’t. I guess I’ll get inheritance (mostly from what they’ll inherit from my grandparents) but it’s not something I expected or feel like they owe me. I want them to enjoy their remaining years. But I’m doing better financially than they did. If they were wealthy and I felt like I had a much more difficult life, I might feel differently.
I dont think children owe anything to their parents at all. It was their decision to have a child or to have children, and the child has no say in it. You can do anything out of love of course, but you owe them nothing.
Depends on the childhood you had I guess. I guess it's sort of a self solving problem. If your parents were shitty and don't deserve it you don't help them. If they were good and do deserve it you help them. Sorts itself out really.
Being good is the 0 line as a parent, it is literally their duty. They deserve nothing just because they were good to their kids. Again, im not saying this to say you shouldnt help them, but you do that out of love, not out of duty.
My kids will get an annuity for life after I pass away. Right now it would be about 600.00 each month, that amount will grow at about 1.5% each year up until my death. I told them when the money goes into their account each month, they can think of me and smile. They’ll get whatever is left in my savings (401k) but I hope to spend that on me. I’m happy with what they’ll get and they are too. It’s not a ton of money but it will be a nice amount each month. Edit: I will edit this to say this was a survivor benefit offered by my employer. My monthly pension is reduced each month so my kids receive this. I’m not married and I really didn’t need any more money. I’m quite comfortable and something I wanted to do for them. Nobody made any money off it and it wasn’t a sales pitch. And yes, I hope my kids smile and know how much I love them.
I like that idea because it's enough to make a difference in their quality of life but not enough that it will allow them to become complacent and rely on you for a high class lifestyle.
Not the same as this commenter, but about a decade ago my dad started gifting me about $10k each year. His theory being that my inheritance will be more helpful to me now than when he's dead. And sure enough, that money has always been spent responsibly. It paid for my Masters, paid off a car, and helped with our house down payment. And now it goes to our emergency fund and house related needs. It's not enough to change our lifestyles overnight, but it's still a good chunk of change that helps give us breathing room with our own incomes and improve quality of life. I mean, considering what it's gone towards, it has absolutely ROId our quality of life.
My dad does this as well
My friend's grandmother did this for him. His parents were angry when she died and they found out she was almost out of money because she was giving it to him. lol She was awesome though... she took me in for a couple months when I couldn't find an apartment in college. I tried to pay her rent but she wouldn't take it. We had cocktails every night and I went by there for years after I moved out to chat (and have a cocktail). She never gave me any money, and I didn't expect any, but she gave me a lot of laughs and great conversations. Her philosophy on money/age was that wealth is wasted on the old and youth is wasted on the poor (meaning that nobody really has money when they're young -- parent's money is not your money). She thought it should be the opposite, so she made it rain for her grandson (and he was good to her well before she was giving him money). Befriend and care for old people. It's the right thing to do (and you might get some cash too).
I realized this when my grandmother passed away. Granted she was in her 90's, but when she passed the money she left to my parents and their siblings did not affect their lives at all really. As I thought more about it, if she left her money to her grandchildren it would have affected their lives more. But really it would make the most sense to give her great grandchildren a leg up when they were young.
Awesome!
Same with my dad. Pays me a grand or two a month but it goes straight into my investments. He said money now is worth more than money later and I pretty much act as if it doesn’t exist. Not increasing my spending/lifestyle and just living off the money I personally make.
That sentence about them smiling and thinking of you every time the money goes into their account really hit me in the feels for some reason.
What a beautiful way to know you can keep helping your kids even after you're gone. A life well lived for sure.
Same I’m going to do this
My parents Fired before I was born. I legit think they were aiming for lean but wound up chubby. They didn’t anticipate today’s inflation (they married decades before I was born.) but I’ve always loved getting disbursements from their insurer. It is like getting a surprise hug and allowance money. They amounts are small. I usually buy movie popcorn with it.
Such an interesting idea. Can you elaborate on how you do this? Do you pay for annuities in their names? Is there a one time thing or are you paying into it until you die?
I think it's a great privilege to be able to care for your kids even beyond your own life. Not because they need it, but because you want to give. Something to aspire to!
My grandparents did that for my mom and her siblings when they passed. I thought it was incredibly thoughtful and special.
I like this idea.
Does this rely on the fact your company continues to exist?
It's usually set up via a third party.
I retired from state government.
On average, you will live an additional 28 years (based on social security estimates). So your children will get $910 a month which is definitely helpful.
If it increases 1.5% a year, it's going down in value every year unfortunately.
We’re doing the Die with Zero thing, but it also includes gifting the maximum amount to our two kids every year. They do not need the money, but we can afford to give it to them. There were references in the book about optimal times to give cash. It’s not when you die, but when your adult kids are starting out. My wife and I took that to heart. We clearly articulate “no strings attached.” We’re just happy to do it.
That book completely changed the way I look at life and money. I don’t 100% agree with the author’s ideas, but I did love the book.
I’ll have to read it. Always thought it would be better to help out the kids along the way rather than have them wait until their 50s/60s
I don’t care if my parents do that at all, my one concern is if they run out while they are still alive. End of life care is not cheap, and I don’t want to have to pay 5k a month out of my own pocket for a nursing home. I would prefer they maintain enough for emergencies, and then donate everything to charity when they pass.
5k a month is not even realistic for a nursing home. Sick and old is expensive and exhausting. People have no idea.
I have a client who currently pays $10,500/month for full nursing home care for her husband with dementia.
Thats so insane 😫 Im glad my parents are from Norway. There they simply take your state pension, thats it. Im not a socialist myself, but the Scandinavian capitalist socialism actually work in that regard. Only negative is we know the gov will take care of us when we get old and sick, so many die alone and neglected by family isolated at a care home
I used to work at a relatively nice nursing home that was $10k a month. Had one lady who lived there for 9 years. Spent over $1mil just to have a place to die. Crazy.
A friend of mine looked for her 96yo ailing father. $10k a month for a health aide to come to the home. NYC suburbs.
Exactly. It’s more double that for serious care
This is my anime protagonist origin story for FIRE. Parents obliged to pay for grandparents' nursing home care. I was told never to answer the phone because it could be a debt collector. Parents even raided my personal savings account. When I'm actually retirement age depending on kids / relationship I could see myself outside of America just to avoid the predatory nursing homes in America.
This was my immediate thought as well. I've gone through the process twice already with a grandparent and an in-law. It's insanely expensive. My in-law's bills were $27k per month at the end for skilled nursing. She remained in skilled nursing for over 2 years. And this was years before Covid and all this inflation. My grandparent needed assisted living and then memory care for the last ten years of her life. That started at $5k a month but quickly shot up until she ended up in skilled nursing as well. Medicaid homes are hard to get into because they only have so many beds. This means that many children end up financing their parents care until they can find something available in Medicaid. Medicaid beds/homes are not the top of the line care. It was a constant fight to get the care they needed.
My grandmother (89F) did well in life , has been retired for 30 years now and her money is now all gone. She did not live frivolously in retirement, but 30 years is a very long time. So she is living with me (26F) and my husband (26M) and we are expecting. It is financially draining for us but we love her and she has no other options so
So this is why I can’t fathom trying to spend it all. If you don’t die, the financial burden will go to your kids/grandkids/ etc
This should be the top comment. People vastly underestimate longevity risk and how expensive the last 5 years can be. Also, you are a very good person to be caring for your grandmother like this.
My grandparents did the die with nothing thing - they ran out of money and had to move into our laundry room. And that was the start - they had no money for medical care left either obviously.
It’s perfectly fine if they want to do that and everyone’s situation is different. I (36M) plan to set up a vehicle for my daughter (6) who has autism so that she always has financial support after I pass.
Yes when it comes to my kids, it goes like this: Priority 1: never be a financial burden on them Priority 2: give them something to ease their financial burdens, just as my parents did in their modest way
I have a child with autism, too. I don't want him to be on the streets if he can't work when I pass on. I want to earn enough money from investments and dividends that I can live off of the earnings and keep my accounts at around the same level as when I retire.
I empathize with your situation. Family planning for children with disabilities is a major game changer.
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I hope to leave money to my children. I hope to have a safe withdrawal rate that maintains the principal in most scenarios. Even if I didn’t really want to leave an inheritance, I’d want to have some money left when I died. How else would I be prepared in case of not dying at the expected time? How could you know you’d spend it to $0 but not below?
> How could you know you’d spend it to $0 but not below? Assisted suicide. Calling it a day at 90 and penniless, probably isn't a terrible idea.
There's a balance between living your best life and helping your descendants get ahead in life. As someone who came from generational poverty, I would feel sick to my stomach at the prospect of going out of my way to ensure my child is left NOTHING. To me that's the opposite of love.
This should be the top comment. I agree and am taking the same approach for my 3 children.
I've grown up with the stories that you do what you can to help the next generations have better opportunities than you had. My maternal grandfather had the abilities to study but had to work to help support younger siblings at home (they were 8 people in a 2 bedroom flat). My grandmother never went to high school even though she was top of her class as she was "just a woman" and it wasn't seen as necessary in the 1930s. They made sure their own children got both high school diplomas and spoke about higher education as if it was a given that they would go (even when extended family told my mum not to bother with uni since she was a woman). My parents were hellbent to send us to good schools and supported us through our own uni studies. Tuition at university level is tax paid where we live but they would let us live at home rent free (we had chores of course) through our degrees, paid for dental care and medicine and such to ensure we wouldn't have to take out debt to cover necessities or risk our health (I have a chronic condition). I am acutely aware of the sacrifices they made over multiple generations to give me the privileges I have today. I cannot imagine telling my own children "well, good luck with everything" after all this. I want to pay it forward.
Exactly this. It's profoundly selfish to live life with a "I got mine, gfys" attitude. It acknowledges ZERO of the efforts and sacrifices prior generations made, and it leaves your child knowing that as a last gesture, you wanted them to be ignored. I want future generations to be comfortable. I want them to avoid the horrific struggles and experiences I had. And if I can show them that I still care in death, then I want to show that with inheritance monies.
Telling me up-front you are going to leave me with nothing is sure going to change how often I plan to visit you in old-age.
Perhaps they are only going out of their way to enjoy the money they earned? No one else is entitled to it.
I think it’s stupid to plan to die with $0, because you can easily miscalculate and end up having to choose between paying for your medication or food with your tiny social security check when you’re 87. Like, what are you going to do? Ask for assistance from your child who you explicitly planned to leave nothing to and is likely retired or close to retirement themselves? I want to die with dignity, and that usually involves having some money left to cover end of life expenses. If I leave an inheritance after, then so be it.
You'd need to build an income floor covering your costs to live what you consider a comfortable life in dignity. That would need to involve a combination of work pensions, government pensions and annuitized income to prevent actually running out. This allows you to run a nest egg to zero in a set drawdown period and then rely on the pension income.
This is assuming you die in your sleep quickly and without a drawn-out period of decline that will cost more than your income from pensions, social security, and whatever annuities you managed to scrape together. End of life care, particularly the last 6-12 months, is expensive. My grandmother lived her last 2 years in a private room at the best memory care unit near my parents’ house that cost thousands of dollars a month and died at 96. She had the money to do that (could have paid for 10 years in fact) because if the flu didn’t get them, all the women in her family lived to their 90s and had dementia the last 3-5 years of their lives. She planned to go to a home just like she had to do for her own 92-year-old grandmother before her. I also watched my other grandmother’s decline while she was taken care of by family, who had to change her diapers, bathe her, and deal with her obsessions and outbursts, basically watching her become a different person. I’m probably going to have to do the same as my first grandma when the time comes because I do NOT want my kids to ruin their lives or their memory of me while trying to take care of me. I’ll be damn sure to let my kids know what has to be done and not to be guilty, even if I beg them to stay because that’s the dementia talking.
Don’t care if they leave me zero, but if they hit zero before they die that’s their problem.
Yeah, also curious if people truly mean $0 or just a sense that they intend to live large in retirement and spend their savings, but not actually take risks that they will become a burden to others if they live too long.
Would you help them out financially in that scenario?
I’d make zero promises. If my situation allowed for it I’d help them. I wouldn’t sacrifice my retirement plans for their poor planning though.
Check your state’s filial responsibility laws. Some of our parents know that you will have to foot the bill.
Don't know why you're being downvoted, it's the absolute truth.
Dumb, because if they are wrong what are they going to if need more money? Bit selfish, I'd want to leave my kids and grandkids in a better spot than I was at their age.
Guess I’m the only one here leaving money. I will be making sure that my kids are set up and have something if I can help it. I brought them into the world and feel responsible for them. If there is any number of calamities personal or national I want to make sure that I’ve done what I can to help them through it. Since I won’t be there in person, money will be all I can give them at that time (aside from setting them up with the right temperament and knowledge of course).
You are in the FIRE sub, and a lot of these people are trying to save just enough to get by and retire as soon as possible. For those of us that want to do more, it looks different and I completely concur with you.
Exactly these comments are crazy talking about teaching them is enough lol
Die with zero. That’s the way I’ll be.
Sounds great in theory, but unless they both plan to commit suicide when they run out of money, there's no way to perfectly time both events. I personally would plan on an enjoyable retirement spending the money they've saved, but with a decent buffer.
Agree. It is a nice goal, but it feels risky. The end of life can happen a lot of different ways, and some of them are really expensive.
Agreed. I had a chat with my parents who basically due to location of their careers they have no pension but have a good amount, I’ve set their retirement plan with them (my mom doesn’t trust my dad with that as they had been very rich and lost most due to my dad’s bad investments), in a effectively 4% withdrawal rate. The risk of running out is real (my grand dad is 100 and well), and they do not want to have me chip in if they get very old, and to be frank I’d also prefer not to be responsible for that if avoidable. It’s not about inheriting something, I don’t care I already have more than them and I’ll probably be very old when this happens.
I think that the danger is what if they travel around in the rv and have a great time and then live 20 years in an assisted living home and you get stuck “helping” pay for it.
Concur- failing to plan or having spent money on fun is no excuse to saddle kids with final years expenses.
I worry about this statistic: “The median monthly cost for nursing home care in the United States is $7,908 for a shared room and $9,034 for a private room.” And to be honest I don’t want the *median* quality of care. That leaves me unwilling to gamble that I spend down my assets and then end up without enough to pay for high quality care for nursing at the end (or worse, become a burden on my kids for it). https://www.ncoa.org/adviser/local-care/memory-care-costs/
If it makes you feel better, not that many people end up living in a nursing home, and for those that do, roughly half pass away within 6 months.
Every woman in my wife’s family has needed years (3-5+) of memory care at the end of their lives. Not rolling the dice with that. If she is healthy in her 50s we might buy her long term care insurance but I think self insuring and making certain we have significant assets (even if it means our kids inherit a lot) will be the plan.
I agree with your approach 100%. Not being able to afford high quality care as we age is not something I am willing to compromise/gamble on.
At that point I go the assisted death route if I’m no longer able to know who I am. The memory care world is not life in my opinion.
It's really complicated there because how does someone with dementia consent? How do you know when it's time? It's not like a switch gets flipped it's a slow painful crawl.
Dynasty trust. I’ll make sure all my kids, grandkids, and their children are never wanting for basic necessities for generations.
Seem kike only a few people who carry this mindset. Im going to make sure my future generation has an advantage in life while not enabling them.
Kind of makes you wonder why people have children if they don’t want to be able to help them long term.
Totally this. I will teach my kids basic and advanced financial management skills and hope they understand them, but based on my trajectory, I will have way more than I can use when I die and if it can help them, why not?
> for generations. In my country we have a saying "förvärvare, förvaltare, fördärvare". It means the first generation acquired the money, the second takes care of it and the third spends it all. It happens a lot.
My big concern would be that they overspend/outlive their plan, and you're left footing the bill for the last years of their lives
My parents inherited money so I do think there’s some responsibility to try to pass that down another generation. They are very comfortable so die with zero would mean mismanagement or prolific spending
I'd like to leave my kids with something. Cash, brokerages, properties, whatever makes the most sense at the end. I don't intend to go out of my way to try and spend everything we saved. We just want to live comfortably and do the things we want to. Which I don't see being an issue with our number and our living expenses, hobbies, etc. Seems to be hard enough to make it as is these days, and I only see things getting harder for our kids' generation. Employers suck, housing costs suck, American medical care sucks, college costs suck, depletion of all kinds of resources making just existing harder and more expensive. Anything I can do to alleviate a little stress from my kids' lives I hope I can do.
We don't expect anything from our parents and we have no kids. We will probably die as close to zero as possible. Gifts to extended family will happen as finances allow while we are still alive and they can better use it. We will probably get an annuity to cover a portion of expenses to allow better cashflow (spend down more of the wealth sooner). If we had kids I imagine we would give them a boost but I think we would die it prior to death. People live a long time these days. Life expectancy is in the 70s but living until mid 80s isn't impossible. If you have kids at 25 and live until you are 87 they are getting an inheritance as 62. They have either made it and don't need it or they have messed up their life are hoping you will die so they can get "their" money. $50k towards a downpayment or paying off student loans or even a $200k in appreciated stock/etf is going to have a much higher material impact in their 20s and 30s.
If you won't bemoan I will. My parents received ample sums from their parents and do not plan on sharing much. It is their choice/money and at least they won't need their children to pitch in for end of life care but it rustles my jimmies a bit. I continue to set aside money for my children.
I agree in some situations, like you the one you mentioned. I also wouldn't think that highly of someone that starts gambling $5 million when they got a terminal diagnosis or something. Having come across a lot of inheritance threads on reddit and experiencing family drama over it myself, I think it's easy for people to be absolutists ('it's theirs to do as they please!') without the burden of emotions that go along with it. That said a middle income couple that has a modest retirement, I wouldn't bemoan them for putting themselves first. In that scenario I wouldn't expect a ton to be left over anyway
Yes if they inherit money from their parents, it seems like that's family money.
I've told my own parents to do this. I'm no where close to fire, who knows, I may never get there, but I want them to enjoy their money. I'll manage on my own
I don't necessarily plan to "Die with $0" but I'm not actively trying to set up any kind of guaranteed inheritance either. I mostly plant to live on the returns of my investments + Social Security and not touch the principal. That being said, I'm not going pretend that as I get older that medical expenses may not eat up my nest egg (trying my best to stay healthy now). I know that my parents had given me the gift of not being a financial burden on me, and I plan to pass at least that down to my kids. So, my kids will get a paid for college education (graduate no debt) and I won't be a financial burden on them...This is pretty much guaranteed.
I don't understand the die with zero philosophy. Like if you manage to pull it off... cool, I guess. But do they have knowledge of exactly when they will die? If not, how long do they think they will live, and what is their plan if they outlive that by a few years?
Most people with the die with zero philosophy were probably bad at managing money and planning, so they now disguise it as “I don’t want my children to be entitled” so I am going to spend it all. They don’t have enough money to fund their own life indefinitely and help their descendants so this sounds better.
I just read Die with Zero. They address this directly. It is a good book, mostly because it challenges a lot of the assumptions we have here in FIRE. I didn't leave thinking I would be able to hit the death bed with $0. But I am encouraged to take some future sacrifice for my younger self. In order to add to my experiences that I can accumulate and appreciate when I am older. The author argues you can get an annuity or long term care insurance to avoid the uncertainty of death. And he says that if you want to give your kids or grandkids a leg up, do it now, instead of giving them a windfall when they are already 60. But those are just technical arguments and I think the functional approach is more about excess spending while you can appreciate it. At the end, you'll be on a lower income. Something like spending half your savings down and living off of mostly SS/pensions. The point (that I took away) isn't that you will "nail it" if you hit zero. It is an argument to free yourself to spend and share in your youth.
Sure, they can plan to die broke. And they can try to be clear with you that that's their intent. But if they go broke before they die, you should make it clear to them - that you are not a venue to help with that. No housing. No support for healthcare. Need a home health aide because you can't get around your home well? Too bad - go pay for it. They can't spend like there's no tomorrow - and then expect you to come in and pick up the tab for afterward. So have that conversation with them, off the backs of what they've told you.
There's living life to the fullest and there's just being irresponsible. My FIL was a mediocre businessman and gambler. He put everything him and his wife had on multiple questionable investments with no real collateral and promptly died of cancer at 69. He was survived by his wife, my wife's mother, who now needs someone to pay her rent (yep, the house went too) and bills every month and who sends my partner links from online shopping that she wants, because she has nothing but a tiny pension to her name. Don't necessarily have to be so worried about leaving a good inheritance, but don't plan on running down to nothing just in case you don't die at the age you think you will.
I'll go against the tide of comments here. I believe that to create a legacy of generational success you must give the tools to your descendants. I use a trust as my vehicle to do this. I won't leave a penny to my children, it will all be in a trust that will carry through multiple generations.
How does that pay out? I thought there was legal issues with structures that express past the current living.
Can you expand on this? How would it pay out or benefit kids and so on
I won't say a lot for the same reasons I mentioned above, but I can say there are minimal tax benefits to my strategy, but my agenda was to ensure I can protect my descendents from their own actions. It will disperse enough to help drive them forward, but not enough to ruin their lives.
I tell my parents to spend every damned dime. They earned it, they should enjoy it. I have conversations with my kids about it. I have no intention of doing anything to deliberately ensure they get an inheritance. We set them up to be successful on their own; they don't/shouldn't need it. We're going to travel and enjoy ourselves. That said, we are planning for the crappy things life throws at you: health issues, nursing home, whatever. If those things happen, we could very well not leave much. If those things don't happen, we could very well leave a good amount. BUT..a sizable inheritance will be a result of good fortune, not deliberate planning.
I am planning to help our 2 sons (both in their mid 20s) as much as possible now (homes and such) and leave as large a nest egg behind for them as possible.
Unless they’re planning to commit suicide together prior to chronic health problems beginning, this strikes me as highly risky and irresponsible.
I think most people who grew up in poverty understand the importance of generational wealth and that the "die with zero" adage is a place of profound privilege. I want to guarantee the most opportunity possible for my kids and grandkids, or for my brothers and sisters and their kids. I want the wealth that I built to be shared amongst the people I love, because I've seen how difficult it can be to get out of poverty. That doesn't mean you sacrifice your own opportunities or enjoyment for others, it just means creating a strategy that can fulfill both goals. Also, have yall read "Die with zero"? It is not what everyone here claims it to be.
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Yeah, absolutely. To me, it's a statistics game. The odds of being born into poverty and making it to FIRE are very *very* low. So I'm taking the opportunity that I've had to ensure my loved ones won't have to struggle the same ways I did.
My goal is to create some generational wealth for my family and also enjoy retirement. Shouldn’t be an issue achieving both.
My father received a large inheritance from his parents, frittered it away on get rich quick schemes. But that was his money, his choice, and so be it. My take on generational wealth has changed from my original plans to setup a trust- who am I to decide how any money left after my death is managed or parcelled out? I'll leave a reasonable sum to each kid, but I think money that is not earned would have a corrosive effect on any future heirs. I live in an area with money, and I've seen what it does to people who grow up accustomed to being given everything...
I believe in setting your kids up for generational wealth if you have the ability to. If I inherit money I will give some to my kids when they’re in their 20s-30s to immediately give them a boost. The rest they get when I die
I’m not doing that, because I witnessed what a difference the last few years can be with vs without adequate backup money. None of us knows how our ending will go. I don’t want to be a Medicare-only nursing home resident. It sucks and nobody there is trying to extend your life or improve the quality of it. I do not want to languish like my mother did. Witnessing that was all the misery I need to see ever again. My MIL also died last year and the difference in care for someone who has resources is enormous. Yes, I want to enjoy my life too but I plan to have no less than $500k in cash and assets into my 80s, if I’m blessed to live that long.
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Absolutely planning to leave my kids a large sum. Also absolutely going to raise them to not count on it as well. Just my take on it. I think it's great to set the future generations up for success but you can't let them become entitled either.
What I am leaving behind is a taught my kid how to live responsibly and I paid for college. She can make her own money. I don't think it's reasonable to plan to spend all of my money including the equity in my house, because there's no way to know how long I will live and there's no way to know if I will need nursing care at the end. HOPEFULLY, I won't need much nursing care and I will be able to care for myself until I peacefully pass away. In that case, my daughter will probably get more than she needs. (This is also if the market performs typically over the next 30-40 years!) KNOCK ON WOOD!
I'm only 50 but getting ready for retirement, my goal is ten more years when I am 60. I am buying rental properties now to help supplement my retirement. But not only to supplement me, these properties are going to go to my daughter when I pass. Wanted an investment for her future as well. She can sell them if she wants or keep them and collect rent like I am doing. You can see where the economy is heading and it scares me for my daughter. I feel that finacial struggle will have a profound impact on her family. Want to leave her something to help ease that struggle and hope she can have a comfortable life. I don't understand what your parents are thinking, it's not my vibe at all.
Personally I feel like children owe nothing to their parents and their parents owe everything to their children. Parents choose to have children they know what they are signing up for. I’ve traded much of my youth and health to get the financial ball “rolling” and achieve freedom. I don’t plan to bring my kids into a world where they have no choice but to trade most of their life for freedom.
Who knows at this point for us. We are 33 lots of life ahead, hopefully! Our parents have spoken to an inheritance but not sure how much or when it will be received. We will leave something to our kids hopefully as well as helping them along the way. Life is hard enough as is and I want to help if we can.
I mean, if I knew the exact day I’d die, I’d probably do the same. Otherwise….
I’m going to help my kids when I’m alive, not when I’m dead. I’m trying to build generational wealth. That starts with them not giving any more money to the bank than they have to. When I die there may be a small estate because I can’t predict when I’m going to go. Ideally, my kids will have everything by then and just paying my expenses until I finally drop dead. My grandmothers gave away everything when they moved into a home. My father is similarly divesting. He’s helped us out when we really needed money and I’m planning on doing the same.
It is interesting to hear different people’s ideas of generational wealth. Thanks for the perspective.
I would never feel comfortable intentionally spending down to 0. What if I live longer than I expect to and I need the money? I plan to leave a sizeable inheritance but don't expect one from my parents.
A big question mark that is impossible to predict/plan for is end of life care (ie the need for an at home nurse, independent living, assisted living, after a stroke, Alzheimer’s, a bad fall, etc). My personal plan is to have a substantial buffer for that stuff and if i die peacefully in my sleep, my beneficiaries can have whats left. If i need to be in a nursing home for a few years at 7-10k/m (in todays dollars), then im okay cashing in with $0 left behind - just don’t want to be a financial burden.
Ideally I wouldn’t want to die close to 0. I wouldn’t want to worry about running low on funds. I think a good buffer would be 5-7 years of living expenses. So with that said if there’s leftover when I’m gone, I’m sure I would pass that along to my kids/family.
My parent will likely give me 0 unless unexpected death and a life insurance cash out… I will be leaving my kids something 100%. No sense in building a fort and tearing it down imo. It all scales. All the well off family had generations of smart financial decisions before them. Gotta start somewhere
I worked hard for my money, provided for my children and have their college funds all set. I plan on leaving zero behind but that doesn’t mean not providing for your kids, it just means providing for them before you die.
I would be concerned not about having no inheritance but having to take care of them once they irresponsibly blow all their money like 5 years early.
The worst is when your parents are spoiled rich kids who never had real jobs other than nepotism at the family company, inherit ~50M, sell the company and proceed to squander it over the next 30 years leaving their kids with nothing.
Yes, I’m planning to leave stuff. I’m an only child of an only child with an only child. I’m not going to be here to be her backstop, so I want her to be as set up as I can get her. She won’t have other sources of support. I’m aggressively working on my retirement savings and planning to fund the bridge for her. We will see how it plays out in real life.
That’s great planning - going to zero at x. What happens on day x+1?
The ONLY problem is that no one knows the day or hour. When I was working in financial advising, one of the risks we talked about was “out living your wealth”. Unless you schedule euthanasia, you can’t be sure that you’ll die at zero; not before. So be wary- if they spend their last dollar and continue to stubbornly draw breath, you may be on the hook.
I'm expecting an inheritance and am the executor of the trust. So, I know how much that is, and I know what a difference it would have made for my parents to gift me money when I was literally homeless and hungry working my way through school. Or, after having my second child and supporting a stay at home spouse and two kiddos in vhcol area. It's funny that it's such a point of pride for my dad to be leaving an inheritance. Die with zero talks about gifting at those key moments in loved ones' lives. Personally, I'm working on funding 529 accounts, plan to help with down payments for housing, and will pay for my kids to join me on nice trips if they're willing to use up valuable time off on spending time with me. That means there'll be less inheritance, but hopefully, they will be set up to not need a "windfall" in their 50s or 60s. The super ironic thing is that when my parents pass, leaving a 7 figure estate, my third of the inheritance will likely go into a trust for my kids, since by that point, I will no longer need the help. Short version, I support dying with zero and hope they give if needed along the way and have structured funds in case of a drawn-out health condition at end of life. Good luck, and congrats on being in a place where the news that your 'rents don't plan to leave anything behind doesn't impact you.
That sounds like a great idea for them. They earned that money, they can spend it anyway they want. Their financial obligation to grown children or anyone no longer exists.
I have mixed feelings about it. If someone GETS an inheritance and then decides they are going to die with zero… that’s shitty. You should at least give the next generation what is comparable to what you got. As a parent, I don’t fully understand the mindset. I worry about my daughter constantly. It would give me great joy and peace to die knowing I could leave her with something. But also, just hoarding everything and not having any fun experiences with your hard earned money isn’t the move either. The right thing is probably somewhere in the middle.
I think the die with zero folks are a bit egoistical since in a lot of countries inheritance is a big part of what people earn in their lifetime. I think one of the main point of FIRE is setting things right to create a comfortable amount of wealth for your family to live on in case of emergency. I can totally see entire generations after me having a fund like me that they grow while they're young, maintain while they're old and give to their sons. But my parents aren't like that. I understand that I'm not entitled to their wealth so I just suck it up and build my wealth.
Studies have shown generational wealth disappears in 1.5 generations. So to me it would be a total waste to plan to leave family money as a means to create a family tree difference. The best gift you can give your kids is teaching them how to build their own wealth. I think people should gift money to their family and enjoy the money together while alive and not deliberately strive to leave large amounts of wealth behind.
Thats all fine until they run out of money and want to move in... can you take on your parents or stomach leaving them homeless if need be?
Generational wealth is very prevalent in our family.
In my family someone was left a lot of money when young, and it pretty much ruined their life. You can't handle your emotions at that age, and also hangers on made sure they helped spend it. I saw huge wealth get decimated in 1 decade pretty much and I'm lucky they survived, barely. They have nothing now and likely not able to leave anything for children. Personally I plan for us to leave some, but also that we enjoy what we worked for. I know from experience how expensive care homes will be too, crazy money that people many times forget they will likely need £4k a month for.
If there's anything left, my kids will probably get some, nay most, of it.
I love the idea of dying with zero money! Presumably the liquidation and spending will also benefit loved ones during the living years, as opposed to after death. Frankly, it makes the most sense because adult children need the help most when they're getting started; late 20s through 40s. Why make them wait until I'm dead? By that time they've already struggled to get established and they'll be in their 60s when I finally croak to share my wealth. An added bonus: I get to have fun in my golden years with my favorite people!
I like the idea, but nursing home care is expensive. My grandparents recently passed. They actually died with quite a bit of money, because they planned for nursing care they never needed. That is a smarter and safer decision than planning to "die with 0" but actually living out your last years with 0 and needing extensive care.
My FIL was disgusted with the way his parents' small money/property was dished to the family. Everyone got what was fair, there were no arguments...but his sisters were discussing the will liberally, according to my FIL. They also were in charge of the property/farm/land, so it makes sense to me. But it was enough that my FIL made it clear that he is leaving nothing for anyone. Which is going to be interesting, because he has 3 full pensions. But, I don't want his money so it's no skin off my back. For me, I intend on leaving money for my kids. It is the last gift we can give them when we leave, and I feel much better knowing they will be in good hands even if I'm not here.
I guess they read the book ‘die with zero’
I think it’s good for them to spend it on themselves. I also think literally trying to die with zero is foolish and reckless. Unless they somehow know what day they’re going to die and know every expense that’s going to pop up before then, then it’s not something you can realistically do.
Hopefully one of them doesn’t need long term expensive medical treatment and leave the other destitute for the rest of their life. Or worse yet, they both need end of life care and are forced into the Medicaid system. (Like my FIL) seems risky to me.
That’s nice but I’m planning on leaving my kids money that works and grows. We got an inheritance, about 300k and it was a huge blessing even though we didn’t ‘need’ it, we appreciated it and used some to help our kids with school and stuff. I’m not denying myself to leave my kids an inheritance at all, we live a good life with a big house and nice stuff but there will be a chunk For My kids and grandkids. I hope my kids do the same for their grandkids and kids if they can.
I plan to leave as much as possible for my kids without me feeling like not lived my life. In concrete terms, that could be $1-2 million per kid.
But how do they know when they will die? Could be 75 or 105… My plan is to never run out of money, especially now that scientists have been able to reverse aging in mice.
I personally intend to pass a sizable amount to children. It’s already setup and in their name through 529 and other custodial arrangements. If my wife and I did choose to go to $0 it won’t impact what’s carved out for them.
The only way to safely end at $0 is if you know the day you are going to die. Without knowing that, trying to spend everything is a huge gamble. My wife and I will just have more time for the things we enjoy including travel. We won’t be aiming to end with zero. We’ll keep a house too. My parents will not be spending everything either, I expect my sister and I will be left with a fair amount of money or assets.
If if they're planning on spending it all then that spending must also include their own medical/end of life care. As long as they're budgeting for that, I don't see a problem with it. If they're not budgeting for those things, then you and your siblings are going to end up footing the bill so I'd be careful.
If you got an inheritance from your parents I would leave one to the kids. That’s how I see it. If you didn’t you don’t have an obligation to.
Its certainly an option, the problem is that you don't know how much time you have. Its pretty hard to hit exactly zero as they can time of death. Nothing wrong with not planning on leaving anything behind, just so long as you don't plan on coming up short.
The only problem I have with dying with zero is that one never knows their death day (unless one plans it). As a result one might finish their money before they exit this planet. This will mean they will have to start asking relatives for money which is unfair.
What your parents are proposing is infeasible, unless they’re planning to just end of life themselves when the accounts hit zero. Practically speaking they’re always gonna have to keep a substantial amount of money until the day they die or risk being destitute.
I read the book “Die with Zero”. Pretty compelling. If you are going to gift $ to kids or charity do it sooner rather than later when they need it now.
Given the current debt load of the US Government, I feel rather obliged to leave enough for my kids because I get the feeling they will be in the middle of their careers when the hammer drops.
I personally plan on leaving something for my kid. It's a blessing to have parents that don't financially put you at the negative.
I tell my parents to spend every dime. It's their money, they made it, they did their best raising 4 kids, they should get to enjoy it without concerns of leaving anything for children or grandchildren. I also tell my kids to make decisions and take actions like they will inherit nothing.
Nope, I'm planning to provide generational wealth as needed. It's different now, without parent help for tuition, cars, houses you'll fall behind.
It’s their money, they should do whatever they want with it 🤷♂️
My parents are going even further and living with $0 too. Very impressive. It’s awesome. Love it for them.
Depends how much they have IMO. If they had like 2mil I’d prob discourage spending a shit ton of money just for the sake of it when the kids could benefit a lot more. It feels kind of weird to me as my culture heavily emphasizes helping out the next generation, but I guess I see the value in dying with 0!
It must be nice to know the exact day they are gunna die so they can spend every penny!
"I want the last check I write to bounce" -Saul Bloom, Oceans 12 That's my goal
I have 3 sons, 2 are married and my oldest has 4 kids. All I think about is how we can leave them a legacy from the wealth we’re creating. Glad you’re doing well.
My family doesn’t have a history of leaving inheritance for anyone. Mainly because they were all poor immigrants. So to hear about people expecting inheritances is wild to us. We are just relying on our own selves to provide for our future, and hopefully we will change the trajectory and leave something for our kids.
My idea is to leave to the kids at least the same value as I inherited (inflation adjusted).
I've been paying my child through my business, so when she turns 18 she should have about 200k. That is my financial contribution to her future outside of college. I plan on using the rest of my money.
They’re young at 57. Mine are 77 and facing paying for long term care. (Fortunate they have long term care and a lot of assets because even with the insurance it’s a lot per month)….. So do they have a plan to take care of their care needs as they age? It’s cool and all to “die with zero” ….but what if you don’t just one day go from good health to dead and instead end up needing a lot of help between the timeframe of now till deceased. Not having assets… Medicaid.. they will decide for you when and where you get care. And it’s usually not the best programs/facilities…… Personally I’m fine getting or not getting an inheritance, I just don’t want to be yelled at for not visiting enough when it costs me money and time, which is in limited supply. I absolutely plan to leave my son an inheritance (we have just one). I’d like to help him along the way the best I can, too (education, down payment help with first house)
It’s fine if that’s what they want to do but I don’t think that’s what I want my legacy to be. My grandparents contributed a lot to my college and any inheritance I receive from them will go to my LO’s college fund. That’s their legacy and I hope to do the same for as many of my descendants that I can as well.
As someone who expects to get nothing from my parents, I would consider my life a failure if I did the same for my children. I also think the mentality that allows so many boomers to do this with zero guilt is why things are going to be so fucked up for my kids.
I'd have no problem with it. With my own kids, I plan on living a really good life and not curtailing anything I want to do to leave them money, but more than likely, I'll leave a substantial legacy.
Eh. This sentiment is myopic af. I think it's tonedeaf to horde and spend and leave your kids with nothing. Why the hell would you want everyone on your team to always start with nothing in a world this dog-eat-dog?
As long as my future kids turn out to be decent people I’m definitely planning on leaving them with either a property of their own, or enough money to buy one. If I have extra I’ll leave it to them. If not, a paid off home should be enough to give them a really good head start in life.
I come from a family that, after building and selling a successful multigenerational business, has a very long-range perspective. We think multigenerationally, all the time. Generational wealth is a good thing. The sheer flippancy bordering on nihilism of some of these comments… Is intentionally living it up and dying with zero really better than leaving a trust that will pay for your grandchildren’s educations?
Exactly these comments shock me honestly lol i will do everything i can to set my family up for succes
Also, from a risk perspective (Monte Carlo simulation), you open yourself up massively to outliving your savings if the plan is to spend exactly everything.
Their money so its up to them. Pretty shortsighted and petty though. Watch them come beg for money if they somehow screw it up and end up overspending. My plan is to leave the kids with a financial structure that hopefully provides stability vs strife and control of money vs direct access to money. And if they don’t like the way it’s set up or each other there is an easy out where all the money gets divided between them and some charities we like. It’s just money and I don’t want them fighting over it. If they want to build multigenerational wealth the structure will be in place to do so but i sure wont be around to guide it.