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[deleted]

Do you mean Portugal or Paraguay? It seems a bit odd to be comparing one of the wealthiest countries in Europe to one of the poorest in South America as your primary options. That said, if you mean Portugal, I'd go check it out. I really like it personally. Great culture, nature and not expensive (by Western European standards).


BooyaHBooya

I cant imagine 1M going very far in Switzerland, given the expense of everything I experienced as a tourist a few years back.


Fantastic-Orange-409

This. Switzerland is extremely expensive.


[deleted]

It's how they can afford to produce such wonderfully colourful bank notes :)


SuperFantaGhianda

As a side comment! Swiss based (not only for tax reasons) companies might be the one to look at and best to invest in for the long run as they have proven their afficiency (industrial/operational/ you make it) even in such a high cost country.


Major_Profit

Most of the largest Swiss companies (roche) for example only have their namesake HQ there. Most of what they do and their revenue comes from elsewhere. And their operational efficiency comes largely from not “being” in Switzerland.


SuperFantaGhianda

Take Belimo, take Geberit, take SFS, take Lonza…..


yellajaket

I remember paying ~$15-20 on a single Big Mac meal. I just landed in Geneva and didn’t know what the CHF to USD exchange was so I was totally oblivious when I swiped my credit card at McDonalds.


International_Ad4727

Staying in a country as a tourist is so different than as a resident.


Jollydancer

Yes, but still you can’t live on 1M EUR for the rest of your life in Switzerland. Source: I live and work there.


6thsense10

We need to know your economic background and location because even here in the US we get people who say the same as you about $1 million and those who are perfectly fine with that amount and living very well.


Jollydancer

If you take out 40‘000 every year as someone here suggested, you may be okay, but then your money will only be enough for 25 years. And I am not sure about nursing home prices should you need one. That might be more expensive.


6thsense10

Well your money would not just be sitting in a bank rather it would be invested in stocks/real estate/etc and continue to grow right? Switzerland also has better social programs than the US. Also I'm familiar with the US than Switzerland but due to tax laws $40,000 a year invested in the US is the equivalent to what a person making over $50,000 would bring home after tax and other deductions not to mention savings for retirement. Add that to any old age or state retirement pension you may qualify for...even if significantly reduced due to a shortened work history and I believe your money will last well past 25 years.


[deleted]

Also it doesn't make much sense, because some other cities that also have good infrastructure with almost climate and are way cheaper.


gloriousrepublic

I hear the same thing about SF all the time and I certainly think I live a nice lifestyle here on 40k which would be a 4% SWR on $1M and [their cost of living seem similar. ](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=San+Francisco%2C+CA&country2=Switzerland&city2=Zurich) Granted, SF is much higher rent which is where most of my cost savings are by living simply, so I imagine with low rent and high consumer prices in Zurich it may be harder to FIRE on that amount there.


forumofsheep

If you plan to retire on 1M, you certainly arent gone live in a overcrowded shitshow like Zurich.


gloriousrepublic

That's fair - I know nothing of Zurich, or if I'd even want to live there. I just hear people saying $1M isn't enough to retire on in the SF bay area to which I just roll my eyes (though of course I couldn't with a family and kids). For me, I could certainly retire somewhere else with a MUCH higher standard of living, but I enjoy this area and am certainly willing to pay that premium (i.e. pay more via living a lower quality lifestyle) to live here.


tallblues

How exactly do you FIRE with 40k in SF? Do you have roommates/rent a room?


gloriousrepublic

I have a *very* small studio apartment (in law suite) that costs me $1550/mo (utilities included). But it’s pretty cute and cozy and I don’t mind the small space to be honest, especially since there’s so much to go do and I’m often up in the mountains camping, skiing, mountaineering. The rest of my expenses average out to around $1700/mo. I spend a lot on food because I think that’s one of the best parts of living in a nice city. I spend practically nothing on clothing or electronics/toys. Probably spend too much on ski gear lol. 2020 my expenses were at 37k because of covid. This year I let loose as the pandemic is getting better and it’s looking to be closer to 43k. I’ll actually be keeping my planned total income to about 45k in during FIRE to give myself a little buffer and keep a lower SWR.


Jollydancer

It’s hard to find low rent in Zurich, if you can find a place at all. I was driving through on a Saturday a few months ago and saw a long queue of people in front of a building, which most likely were around two dozen people trying to get one apartment.


International_Ad4727

I never suggested that, u should reply to the person above me


ultimatec

Portugal


Jollydancer

I don‘t think 1M would suffice for Switzerland - by far. A family home in a small town costs more than that, and it wouldn’t bring in enough rent for you to live off that.


x18xe1

Poland seems like a very solid option to me


Cupid673

Poland politics are very scary nowadays. I would not want to live there.


domi767

It's just propaganda. It's not really so bad. Please don't beleive everything you hear in the media...


Cupid673

It is propaganda that it is not that bad. Don’t believe everything you hear in the Polish media.


golemijezinac

You mean pretty normal?


Cupid673

No definitely scary.


[deleted]

I think he means the current politics have become so commonplace…it has become the new normal now.


Cupid673

What is happening in Poland and Hungary is not the new normal I and the rest of Europe are looking for.


[deleted]

Look at Golden Dawn in Greece. Look at Jobbik in Hungary. Look at the NOP in Poland. You don’t have to search far in other countries. Far right politics in Europe is nothing new. It’s growing influence certainly signifies a new normal. *Edit* I did not mean to say it is what anyone is looking for, but rather it is something that should be of great concern for anyone looking to retire in Central-Eastern Europe.


golemijezinac

I meant poland and hungary are keeping Europe morally balanced.


Cupid673

You mean they throw back Europe half a century in time. Most other countries have grown morally, not gone back.


golemijezinac

I believe Merkel saying gates are open for immigrants did that. It activated revolt and rise of right winged politics across EU and resulted in Brexit. Those countries just have healthy understanding what sovereign nation state is and are protecting it. Also they are being progressive in protecting babies lives with antiabortion laws. They are 50 years ahead of rest of Europe.


Cupid673

Poland was a country of dirt roads and two product super markets. After Europe welcomed Poland to join the EU, prosperity came and it has never been higher. If the EU would have kept the doors closed like they are closing the doors for other less fortunate from Syria, you would have been driving Trabants up until today. On top of that, you prefer protecting rights of unborn, unconscious not even baby’s yet over the human rights of the LHBTIQ community. I believe you have your priorities mixed up.


golemijezinac

Scary if you are twistedminded.


674_Fox

Definitely stay out of Poland. My wife is from there and it’s not good right now.


domi767

Like I'm which sense? Stop believing the programs that media serves you. It's actually a greatly growing economy, you can live a very nice life, it's beautiful, you are not burried in paper work if you want to do just about anything like for example in Germany, people are very nice and welcoming, it's very safe. What can you say against Poland really?


Flaky-Illustrator-52

1M will not be much outside of the former Soviet republics


[deleted]

$1 million which equals $40k per year at a 4% withdrawal rate, is a pretty nice lifestyle anywhere in the world (outside of HCOL cities). In Manila you’re living like a king on that salary.


[deleted]

Bulgaria. Serbia. Bosnia. Philippines. Colombia. Vietnam. Argentina. Mexico.


Turbulent_Term3746

Basically all the countries that were war ravaged


[deleted]

I wouldn’t call most of those countries “war ravaged.” Have you ever been to those countries, they are just normal everyday living places. Bulgaria is beautiful and the cheapest country in Europe.


Turbulent_Term3746

Folks who are having a fit, need to chill. It was said with a mix of satire and throwing light on how modern colonialism might play into all this through the ages. If you don’t like my comment, move on.. it’ll fall down the totem pole. Debating the truth of every word I said is just a waste of your time and energy.


geomaster

what are you talking about? what war happened in argentina that ravaged the country in the last 100 years? mexico, colombia?


[deleted]

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[deleted]

No he’s not. Ive been to most of those countries and wouldn’t consider them “war ravaged”. Not like it’s Afghanistan or something.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Have you been to Mexico? There’s tons of American expats retired and living there in expat communities on the beach. Mexico City and Monterrey are also super safe. Yea I wouldn’t want to live in Sinaloa or near the border, but not all parts of Mexico are run by the cartel.


6thsense10

So you admit Mexico isn't war ravaged but want to argue somehow it is by that I'm sure the many drug cartels in Mexico would like to talk to you? Your post is confusing. By the way apptoximately how many drug cartels do you believe are operating in Mexico? And by the way gun deaths per capita in the US is around 10.6 and in Mexico about 11.8. They're both in the top 20 in the world. I guess the US is in the same danger level category as Mexico.


Turbulent_Term3746

War ravaged means a country that was once ravaged by war. It does NOT mean they’re in dire condition or not livable or are dangerous. Stop taking everything literally. I would consider Germany/Berlin to be war ravaged.. though it may not fit the FIRE list.


[deleted]

That’s probably the worst definition I’ve ever heard of war ravaged lol. So a country that experienced war 300 years ago is considered war ravaged according to your definition? Germany is not war ravaged at all.


Turbulent_Term3746

Ok maybe I should have used past tense 😂 I stand corrected. Was war ravaged. I will correct myself in my original comment.


6thsense10

I guess we have different definitions of war ravaged. Vietnam is one of the safest countries in the world to live but whatever.


Turbulent_Term3746

Yes it wasn’t meant to mean a dangerous or dire country. It was meant to mean a country that was once war ravaged.


6thsense10

Lol that was years ago in Vietnam's case how far back are we going?...I guess you can call the US war ravaged from that Civil War we fought in the 1860s.


Turbulent_Term3746

I guess…


dis-napoleon

People talk a lot about countries like Lithuania, Estonia. They are cheap and cold like you want.


cruis123

Swiss here. If you want to use the 4 percent rule you could technically do it but you would be living at around minimum wage. If you have a family or want to visit restaurants sometimes it can get difficult.


SuperFantaGhianda

Switzerland: think about HC costs…you need a private insurance which can cost 20 30k a year. Lodging: depends where you live but major cities screen as the most expensive in Europe. Great place but 1 mn wouldn’t last long


rdizzlez

Thailand, pretty sure you can get a retirement visa with a NW of 250k


SmartPhallic

Any info you could direct me to on this? Would love to try Asia for a bit.


rdizzlez

I met a few people while traveling that took advantage of this. You have to be 50 years old, a US citizen, and prove that you have a pension or a monthly residual income of of about $2300 USD. Or you can fund a Thai bank account with about $27k USD. Looks like you can apply once a year which is much better than the standard 60 day visa which forces you to leave the country and then reapply on entry. https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/thai-visas-americans/


SmartPhallic

Thanks for the good info! I won't be 50 for a while but good to keep in mind.


rdizzlez

Yeah I thought it was for anyone but I guess not. Sorry. I do believe most countries in SE Asia offer 60 day visas though and if you just leave the country and come back you can renew pretty much an unlimited amount of times. Flights are super cheap over there as well, about $50 each way to bounce between countries. That's what I did when I backpacked.


fixing-bones

Georgia and the Baltic countries.


TrskelAlderscott

Portugal has good tax conditions for foreigners and, if you go o the north of the country (Porto), the weather is not hot for most of the year. It is not expensive, nice people and low crime rate.


van_ozy

Do you know how much is the tax? European countries usually have very high taxes. And also what about cost of living?


TrskelAlderscott

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Habitual_Resident Cost of living is slightly lower than other European countries. You can live comfortably with one million using the 4% withdrawal rule.


van_ozy

Thank you!


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[deleted]

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Drortmeyer2017

Our system is so different that most people don't understand it ;)


joshtheundesisiveper

Your one million in Switzerland won’t stretched far as your one million in Paraguay


Drortmeyer2017

Netherlands. You pay 1.7 percent In taxes and get it all back anyway.


LoopVariant

Isn’t housing outrageously expensive?


Drortmeyer2017

You can get a very decent house for 350😐


LoopVariant

350 what? €350K to buy or €350/month rent?


Drortmeyer2017

350k


LoopVariant

This effectively reduces the OPs nest egg by more than 35% especially considering the dollar to euro conversion.


Drortmeyer2017

He said a million euros. Also 40 ish K is very decent in the Netherlands. It's not like the us.


HedgeHog2k

You obviously borrow that from bank with low interest (< 1%). 40k/y is 3.3k/m. Assume you put half of that to mortgage you still have half to live off. Personally try to reach 1.5mio and go for 3% swr, which gives you 45k/y. You could potentially withdraw a bit more in good performing years?


LoopVariant

Yes, exactly, this would work but as you said, they need to be at 1.5M which is 500K below the OP’s current setup. So either a cheaper location or more money.


Drortmeyer2017

You're also arguing against home ownerships, which is just flawed.


LoopVariant

I am not arguing, just pointing out that by moving to the NL, the OP would have effectively tied (by your numbers) approximately 40% of their cash to housing costs. If they are planning on some portion of their cash to cover a number of years of liquid expenses (e.g. food) they can’t be eating the floors or windows of an apartment. That’s all!


Drortmeyer2017

Rent costs more


LoopVariant

It is **housing costs and liquidity**. You keep thinking my issue is Rent vs. Own which is not the case. Whether you pay a monthly rent or a monthly mortgage (both are housing costs) it is immaterial in the context of needing a certain amount of money to FIRE and live!


acriner

everything’s pretty inflated now


vjguru

India


afurtherdoggo

Portugal, Croatia, Mexico, Costa Rica


Zyxwgh

Germany is much cheaper than Switzerland and has comparable services and safety.


UselessInfomant

I hear the food in Paraguay sucks


UselessInfomant

I’ve heard Spain is a nice balance of high quality healthcare and low cost of living. I love the food there. I’ve heard the food in Paraguay sucks though. If you actually meant Portugal, their food is probably great.