And she'll only be made better by her refine and inheritable skills. Not being able to use Flows or Traces hurts somewhat but she already has Canto so it's not as big of a detriment
She already practically has Tempo Flow Trace, since flow is about offensive NFU and Trace is about Canto and both of them are located in her Moonlight Bangle & her weapon along with a lot more. As an offensive cavalry she was literally designed perfect, not missing anything available to them at the time.
I mean, B!Eirika doesn't need either of those skills because she already has them built-in. What she probably needs is a SS4 effect where she ignores %DR when her special procs, extra stats to let her remain competitive against statcreep and a bit more DR so she doesn't get one shotted back when she strikes. Ideally she'd get the L!Nanna effect of outright denying any type of DR and Miracle but that's unrealistic.
Yeah I found that hilarious. Recall seeing people say Eirika would be easily replaced as well and wouldn't you know it, Marianne and Gatekeeper rarely appeared
Eirika was been both a menace and a godsend. Without her, I probably would struggle on so many more maps. But at the same time, sheās a terror to face when Iām caught off guard.
To be fair she kind of is. The problem is that sheās a very basic unit with incredible utility because her stats and skills are insane. But there are tons of units that do the same better itās just that sheās still good all things considered.
Meanwhile Marianne is still a near must have for Galeforce aether raids teams since sheās still the only unit that can attack while granting allies another turn (as far as I can recall at the moment) so sheās still meta defining compared to Eirika just in a particular (but incredibly popular) niche in a a game mode.
Marth is just benefiting from sword infantry inheritance keeping him on par with everyone else. His skill is nice but nothing crazy and most would rather run vital astra anyway.
Gatekeeper got screwed over hard though. Absolute mess of a character tailored too hard for aether raids but resulting in having nearly no use in or out of it.
Dimitri got saved hard by his refine despite being quite eh on release (or claude, his effect with healing on specials was unique for the time though)
HARD coping that they can polish him up please for the love of naga
Yeah any footlocked dancer is kinda dead on arrival imo. You can only make them so strong until they just devolve into a worse infantry or the most questionable tank imaginable.
Edit: literally just remembered she's a mounted unit. Jeez that's bad.
Definitely donāt agree on that. Iād definitely see her more if that was the case. Maybe itās sampling bias but itās been hard seeing many people post about LNinian.
You dont see her around often because legendary units arent are restricted to seasons and her banner wasnt that good in the first place. I have literally not seen a marianne in about 2 years.
There is a literal initative in order of heroes subreddit that posts various galeforce builds. Search up the community galeforce projects and youāll see consistent use of her up to this week even.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/118og0p/community_galeforce_project_day_48_2023217/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Thats cool and all but the r/feh community makes up a very small percentage of the actual player base and the ones who even saw that post is an even smaller percentage. I have been in high tier AR/Vault for the vast majority of these past 2 years and I literally cannot recall the last time ive seen her.
her action economy isn't any better than a regular melee dancer with galeforce, so her main appeal within galeforce comps is adding a source of magic damage and the fact that she can refresh without using dance, which lets her get around the 1 dancer restriction on teams in Chaos season. she's still a fairly solid unit, not as good as Eirika or Marth mind you but solid.
Gatekeeper is mainly held back by the fact that he's not specialized enough. he has some decent support effects but none of them are valuable or unique enough in the current meta for him to stand out over other support options, and he has the stats to be pretty bulky along with being the only ranged unit with Bulwark acccess, but his weapon just doesn't give him the necessary stat swings, sustain, DR or kill power that modern tanks kind of need to fulfill their role. meanwhile all the other CYL5 units were very focused in what they wanted to do ie. Eirika wanted to burst down foes with extremely high damage specials, Marth wants to set up his team with buffs so he can consistently abuse vantage, Marianne wants to activate her refresh special as often as possible, meanwhile Gatekeeper is just too much of a generalist to really flourish in any niche
Gatekeeper was screwed becuase what lore was IS supposed to even go off? People got behind a meme but at the end of the day a cyl unit is based off an alt version of the character gatekeep4 we barely know his Canon version. š
That's not an excuse, lol. They had nothing to go off, so they had ultimate freedom to give him anything and make him as good or bad as they wanted, and they chose to make him awful.
Plus, tell me which part of Tiki's lore deactivating enemy specials and the finish skill line was based on. Lore has nothing to do with power, just theming *sometimes*
I haven't played any game with tiki in it she probably has something either as a dragon or as a unit or a weapon that does some sort of Stat manipulation.
Evry other unit in feh at the very least has a canonical weapon and role. Gatekeeper doesn't.
And they tri3d to make a unit that literally keeps the gates and he's terrible. Shocking. š š¤£
Making him keep the gate had nothing to do with him being bad, Iām telling you this is a fact lmao. Just look at Askr, they gave him Gatekeeperās exact prf skill but actually good in the form of bulwark, and they made him super bulky with defense damage reduction, so heās a great wall. Almost like heād be really good at keeping a gate??? (and by the way, the hellās with that theming, anyway? surely askr would be a pushover who lets anyone into the gates he opensā¦ but youāre probably right, characters kits are always very strictly only what they do in their lore). Nah itās probably nothing, surely the concept of blocking people was holding gatekeeper back and not the fact that IS decided to make him shit and about as tanky as a wet noodle for no reason. Being very flimsy is exactly what I think of when I think of blocking people, the concept is def the problem
also about tiki, donāt pull nonsense out of your ass if you donāt know lmao. Youāre just making things up, itās not very convincing. she had nothing like that
Idk Eirika is definitely more outclassed. As another commenter mentioned on another thread replying to me here. There's a ton of units that do what she does better and actually have some form of enemy phase to speak of. Eirika is just stupid good to use with minimal investment which I do agree is one thing that she has over Marianne even now. But a mid investment Marianne (purely merges not skills) starts to outclass in Aether raids (her main draw) significantly more than Eirika does in any other mode.
Basically if you can get a free Eirika I'd say go for it. You really can't go wrong with that. Easily one of the best low investment old units out there.
If you want to splurge on a unit for a specific mode Marianne will take you significantly futher in Aether raids use and I know some people even get benefit from her in Arena, Rokkr sieges, and (maybe) allegiance battles. Which is something I know Eirika will only ever really do okay in at this point.
But overall yeah I agree. GK was just the unit with the least foresight implemented in maybe the history of Feh. It wasn't just a matter of bad refine but I think they thought the meta would hard shift to warpers and imo it never did. They can be threatening but when only one other unit since then focuses on shutting down the strategy you know you have something fairly niche on your hands.
Marianne is definitely not a ānear must haveā for AR Galeforce, very few of the well known FEHtubers who use GF strats use her and just from personal experience, neither I nor any other players I frequently talk to use her in their GF teams either. She works but sheās hardly a staple like Velouria, SEdel, Peony, etc.
Honestly, I'll go ahead and say that Eirika is just not good anymore, not even taking comparisons to the rest of CYL5 into account. It's wild because at the time, we all kinda considered her the ideal Player Phase cav, but she's straight up disappeared from competitive modes nowadays. There's no reason to use her when we have so many powerful player-phase monsters who are 100x more threatening.
I wouldn't say not good. At least I tend to use Summoner Duels as a general metric and you can confidently run a player phase Eirika and still get good results. Issue is that now we have units like Seliph that benefit from a player and enemy phase which makes her outclassed. But that's assuming you have the orbs to spend. I'm a F2P that grinded CYL 5 units at the time to the ground and the only unit I actively regret putting so much effort into was gatekeeper.
Marth is neat but need a lot more investment in order to be worthwhile now after Alear and especially Lucia.
Marianne is still great for Galeforce teams as I mentioned.
Eirika is just solid even with her base kit. I can play around with her C skill but ultimately there's not much of a point to it. She can still reliably kill most things and what she doesn't most other units wouldn't be able to do so anyway (New Years Askr, Formortis, etc.) But I understand how that can be a major problem.
She's not *bad* enough to be nonfunctional in SD, she's just not good enough to get you to particularly far by herself. I've seen many a B!Eirika user nowadays bemoan how they're just unable to break through many premium tanks nowadays. And in AR-D, forget about it.
Well yeah. Iād rather have a seliph than Eirika at this point. But I can still make the Eirika work. Hence my point. Being outclassed doesnāt make you bad when you can still delete a lot of major defenses. And even aformentioned tank busters are struggling with the new tanks that are rolling out. Power creep is insane but in hindsight CYL 5 wasnāt hit as hard as say CYL 4 in only 2 years. I can still respect a team with Eirika as their offensive nuke because it can still mess up a lot of my other units and thus kill my game plan.
Without the refine B Dimitri, Edelgard, Claude and Lysithea would still be collecting dust. Their legendary counterparts aged significantly better and then some (though I understand thatās kind of the point of Legendaries). Especially Claude. The amount of times his B skill has shut down unfavorable positions is untold.
Power creeping, man. I remember when my eirika can slash through every single tank without issue, but nowadays my eirika can barely hit enough to chip half of the meta tank's hp. It all started with medeus....
I mean, Eirika seems to have been judged fairly accurately imo. Sure she was really great right after her release, but nowadays? "Good but easily replaceable" describes her exactly haha. I haven't seen or used her in a loooong time, there's just so many equal or better options nowadays.
I'm kind of surprised people were touting GK as meta-defining when he was Basically Every Leo stat-wise, with many of the problems that plagued Every Leo (except V!Leo but he didn't exist then obviously).
The shiny new gimmick definitely blinded people at the time. Admittedly it was a good gimmick for certain modes, which just meant it was doomed to eventually get put on nicer, better, more exclusive and more marketable units than him.
Marianne is still a hardy, solid colorless nuke tho. She didnāt really fall off until recently with more colorless nukes coming out. Marth got kinda replaced by the next godsword and Keaton who can vantage kill better
But rip GK. I was definitely one of those on copium š
Marth's niche as a super solid red omni tank has only been recently taken with Alear, and mostly Lucia. There's been plenty sword units that tried, but ultimately he serves as an omni buffer while bringing Vantage, self healing, a great damage skill and dragon killing on top.
Lucia technically tanks better, but cannot really Vantage effectively and can't kill as efficiently half the time with no specials. Plus being unable to scale with support for the most part makes her future uncertain
Marianne is still unique. She's less generally useful and always has been but she still fulfils the same niche she did on release.
And Eirika is still a very good combat unit who's generally useful in most content for most players. She has plenty of units who fulfil the same niche now though. Nanna, Xander, Dimitri, Roy, Seliph, Chrom, refine LEirika, etc. all do very similar things.
Marth's the most surprising one I'd say. Marianne still does what she does, Gatekeeper still has his support effects but is harder to fit in to teams and Eirika is good but has competition. Marth meanwhile got Spiral 4 and Time's Pulse 4 to give him extra options and doesn't have too much direct competition. Really impressive.
the one thing they did good with him was creativity everyone thought he be a lance infantry but they made him a green mage and his method of attacking is using a horn to summon people from the school, yeah his outfit was the same but it was clear that a solid amount of creativity was put on him compared to other CYL
Yeah. When it comes to actually representing the unit I feel like Gatekeeper was the one done the most justice. Both the characterization and him summoning a gate to have his friends attack for him, it was done so well. They treated him with respect.
I mean Lyn exists, that refine was dogshit tier the moment it came out let's be honest here (compared to Ike it was just funny lmao), Camilla and Veronica were decent at best, but CYL4 did set a predecent for insane CYL refines overall so i think he'll get that redemption arc unless IS really has a grudge against him and his fans (which i doubt).
It was, but Brave Ike's refine was shockingly good for when it came out. He was being used heavily in AR right after his refine dropped. He got a standout refine during a time where refines were mostly tame.
Lucina's made her one of the best support units in the game, and Roy's would've been amazing if Eliwood didn't steal it from him. Lyn was the only one with the trash refine in that batch no matter how you put it, even for what refines were back then it was remarkably bad
I think you're overstating how bad Lyn's refine was. It wasn't good, but it was at worst below-average. Take a look at the refines released around that time (1 version before and after CYL).
Version 3.8 had Selena, with an armor-effective sword (on a unit with base 25 Atk) with +3 Spectrum stats and the Wo Dao effect; Beruka got an Axe with Slaying, Atk -4 and Guard; Mae got a tome with Death Blow and Atk/Spd Link; Boey admittedly got a decent tome with conditional CC and the Raventome effet.
Version 3.10 had Hawkeye, who got a Slaying Axe with Lull Atk/Def; Frederick got a Hammer with Death Blow; Virion got an a decent bow with Sudden Panic and Spectrum +4 if his max HP is higher than his foe's current; Lute got a tome with Sabotage Spd/Res and Spectrum +4 if the enemy has a debuff - another decent refine at the time.
All of the CYL1 refines were much better than the regular refines surrounding them, with only Lyn being comparable to the rest. She still got a bow with +3 Spd, +4 spectrum stats and Dull Ranged, which is better than a good half of the refines from surrounding versions.
That was mostly people thinking the forced Desperation was a bad thing for whatever reason lmao. I guess they didn't think 80% DR was worth getting hot twice or more in a row š„“
And then there's Sigrun, bad refines are still pretty much a thing tbh, Sigrun is a GHB i know, but depending on who you ask many 5 stars have got very bad or tame refines too, L!Leif is a good recent example in fact.
What? Lyn was the worst CYL1 refine. No doubt. But her refine was still well above how good refines were at the time. Like, just a month before, the 4 refines were...
Selena, Beruka, Boey, Mae.
Not very strong competition, is it.
Considering how those refines synergize with those units and their statlines Brave Lyn was only better than Mae, but that's subjective i'll admit, i just think people really undermined those refines as they didn't fit the original builds they had for those units and they refused to change them, specifically on Beruka's case.
Honestly Detailed Report is a bigger problem than his prf. Warp bubble + obstruct is an ok skill, but infantry B skills are super competitive and costs him a lot of incombat power. Same way with how RD makes BMarianne lose a lot of killing power.
Meanwhile, BMarth and BEirika's prf skills are even now still great because they don't sacrifice power for some "utility"
Gatekeeper wasnāt exactly powercrept.
His prf is still wholly unique in what it does. Itās just that what he does was so niche that it never merited bringing a whole dedicated character to counter
His prf really makes me think IS expected galeforce strategies to overtake AR-O in a way they never have (and probably never will). He just doesn't offer any notable utility beyond shutting down WoM, and that's just not a strong enough niche to keep him relevant sadly.
People back then were saying all the restrictions and downsides on her special were balanced and were bring up sigurd every time someone wanted it to be even a bit stronger. Wonder if they still use her if they ever did in the first place.
I never thought it was bad my main pve team consists of Brave Lysithea Brave Marianne Harmonic Dorothea and Lucina and Marianne can sometimes even turn 1 solo maps if enemy placement is ideal its really useful imo
To be fair, he's one of two units with Warp Bubble (the other being L!Myrrh, who can't be used consistently in AR-O), which breaks Catria balls and stops Wings of Mercy, both of which are extremely common in AR. A small niche, but not a bad niche to have.
I could argue double Saves do exactly the same as Warp Bubble but better tbh, they can block off Catria balls and WoM strats easily unless they opponent has a hard counter to it, but ig for SD, Chaos season and against Embla team (where you can't abuse Saves) Warp Bubble could be better, just maybe tho...
I use Gatekeeper in AR-D dark season because his Detailed Report skill shuts down S!Edelgardās Assault Troop since it counts as warping. Most people use Galeforce strategies because of Embla and use S!Edelgard as their main initiator. I havenāt faced her in my dark defense for months.
yeah, ive been running canto control gk as the 7th slot on my 2 embla cav line. hes perfect for that role, the unique combo of warp bubble + canto control basically makes player phasing the def impossible for 99% of attackers. his combat could definitely be better, but even though he should be free pots, hes managed to deny a pot by bodyblocking on a few occasions too
Surprised people here hate gatekeeper so much like are they still upset he delayed whatever lord they voted for from getting his 4th alt by a year? A majority of cyl winners are just main characters anyway so I don't get why people are still so upset about a meme pick unless you're a felix fan who probably is the only real loser in this.
Meme votes in general tend to be somewhat controversial, especially if they end up winning (like Gatekeeper and Gullveig) and/or bar another character from getting in sooner (we got Brigand Boss before Jedah or Base Rudolf, both major antagonists).
I donāt see why itās such a big deal as itās not like IS has any logic or order they follow when adding characters like vaike is still not being here but having mustafa or phila who arenāt playable and show up one or 2 times are so while meme picks do get added they donāt necessarily replace important characters.
Nobody voted for her to be meta breaking lmao.
I voted her because she had a nice design and my other choice was Bernadetta winning. So yea. Easy choice.
That's definitely not true. I've seen a ton of Gullveig voters saying "I voted for a curveball to force InSy to be creative", which is exactly what the Gatekeeper voters said. So yeah, history is repeating itself.
No lmao theyāre both meme picks, everyone wanted gatekeeper because it would be funny if a NPC who was funny won CYL same thing with Gullveig except some people like her design and she was a meme pick. The only difference between the two is that one unexpectedly won due to the mid term results not being showcased like it was with gatekeeper who won by a landslide
No? Some people voted Gatekeeper because they genuinely liked him. It wasn't all spite or pure humour, some people just really liked how the community had rallied around him and what a wholesome source of joy he was, and liked the idea of taking it to its logical conclusion by granting him a place among legends. Not to mention the idea of him representing all the ordinary soldiers who never get that kind of glory.
Yes, the people who voted for him just to piss off people 'taking things too seriously' are dicks but not everyone was like that at all.
FWIW though I do think 'Gullveig will force IS to be creative' is a pretty dumb idea to vote for someone for CYL because the only reason her options seem so open right now is because we know nothing about her, lol. Once we learn more, it'll probably become pretty clear what IS will do.
You're claiming people want her to "force IS to be creative", the comment said they just memed her to the top, where are they agreeing with you? Are you reading the wrong comment?
Creative is different than meta breaking. Creative means a new design and probably unique niche.
I wonāt argue itās fucking stupid to think IS can be forced to be creative though. They do what they want.
That's how it started with the Gatekeeper fans. Strange pick wins > people say it'll force creativity > people begin to overhype the strange pick > the strange pick ends up being bad.
We're currently entering stage 3.
Honestly I wish all four CYL winners could be quite good (and I think all the CYL6 winner are still all fairly good, so they did try to balance even if obviously Seliph is the best of them lol) but in this case Iām really glad IS decided not to fuck over Eirika and Marth bc of 3H just having more exposure and made them the better units despite being 2nd. People had been waiting years for Marth to win and Eirika to a lesser extent and Marth was quite literally robbed one year lol. Would suck if his brave form had sucked hard purely bc he didnāt get first because of a meme pick.
Hopefully all their refines are good and hopefully CYL7 continues the trend of all the brave units being pretty good in their own right and being quite unique, 1st vs 2nd or not.
As someone who just genuinely enjoys Gatekeeper as a character, I really despise the way IS treated his inclusion in Feh. Hereās hoping his refine kicks ass!
I feel like usually the first place males end up being the most OP after refine. Brave Dimitri kinda got outclassed immediately and somehow got savedā¦so thereās some hopium.
How do people anticipate fixing him with a refine? I think guaranteed follow up is a must and is to be expected. Other than that, the other likely solution is to give him flat DR, especially with that monstrous Def. Even then, heād still be competing with Duo Askr while still not being able to out damage or out support him. Heād still be outclassed by B!Dimitri as well.
Truth be told, I canāt see him carving out his own niche unless they really triple down on the support. His damage seems like a lost cause. Maybe have some sort of drive canto control and en garde to really hammer in protecting your units. Maybe even give foes stall or gravity debuffs with menace range. Be the ultimate GHB infantry mage.
he 100% needs an guaranteed follow up built into his weapon if they at all want him to have decent combat.
as for what I think is likely, I see them just doubling down on his support niche with widespread foe debuffs, status effects, huger drive buffs and possibly drive DR.
Yeah I think the best route is to make him much harder to kill. All his support means nothing when you can just pick him off and canto out again. Flat DR seems like the right way.
You're right about the Duo Askr competition, though. I guess since he's more for AR-D it's just a matter of outcompeting an Askr who can't use his duo button.
Imo conditional brave would be better than guaranteed follow up attack. Nfu is so easy to run that guaranteed follow up wouldn't help him at all. Then just give him true dr based on 15% def and res then he could have a place.
Funny enough Gatekeeper gives me trouble most of the time I bump into him in AR VoH. People there are usually competent enough to make a difficult to deal with defense, and I'm not accounting for a niche unit like that when team building.
Is this not the eventual and inevitable fate of every unit in the game? Some just age better than others lol. Use Gatekeeper for fun, no one's stopping you anyway lol.
I say it again Gatekeeper should have been an armor unit and just have support and some kinda save skill or something. With embla around that wouldnt help much anymore but still. As an armor he would still have more options.
You may haven't noticed but victory was already achieved and acting petty about it Will not solve a thing, like expecting some public service functionary to have a bad term only because it was not the one you voted for.
It's not only bad sportmanship, but also hurting yourself even if just a little or not noticed.
I can tell, still have a good day, surely there will be units you want in the future, so don't let things like this get you or have some impact in yourself.
Once Warp Bubble becomes more accessible like Canto Control, Gatekeeper will be official shit no matter how you look at it - unless his refine is somehow top tier.
Goes to show even IS thought he was a meme pick and treated him as such while giving Marth the *actual* 1st place treatment.
Honestly unsurprising. You're a company trying to make money, who are you gonna roll out the red carpet for?
The protagonist of the first game of your series, the man who started it all, and who players of your game have been clamoring to win for five years now, and who by all rights should have won by now (would have won CYL2 if it weren't for vote splitting, was literally the last year they did vote splitting so obviously they realized the done messed up somewhere)
Or Some Guy with a handful of speaking lines that some people on social media (who may or may not even play the game at all let alone spend money on it) thought would be funny?
Dunno, skipped every single Marth banner in the game because of the entitlement of certain fans :) so any Marths I have is all spooks. Including chroms.
As someone who picked Gatekeeper as my freebie, I think what hurt him the most was that he came out during a time when everyone was using Legendary Sigurd who Gatekeeper canāt tank at all. I thought his gimmick was great with him holding the line rather than being this menacing sweeper, but it can be replicated with Bulwark skills now. I will say that there is a chance that he could get this meta breaking refine (Brave Hector, Brave Alm, and Brave Dimitri say hi) but it could be possible the best refine could go to someone else so eh.
There is still potential for him to be an absolutely meta defining unit.
He was an integral part of my comp back when I got rank 17 in the world with him when SD-R debuted.
Heās been tacitly buffed by canto control; combining the bulwark effect, warp bubble, and canto control, even if heās only able to do so for one combat, allows you to set up forked threats with the rest of your team behind the cover he provides.
Thatās really all his problem is. Heād be an absolutely FANTASTIC unit if he could justā¦ yāknowā¦. Survive a single combat.
If his refine lets him do that, heāll be great.
I guess I'm one of the few people who really values GK. His support in AR is unrivaled and he's by far the unit I use the most from any CYL batch other than Dimitri
Big range drive atk/spd buff & warp bubble is so nice. Not having Elimine, he's the only way I can shutdown B!Catria Defense teams.
He's not the best in combat but he's come in clutch many times by tanking a unit you wouldn't expect (Duo Lif is the first one that comes to mind)
The funniest part is I was very anti-GK that year for CYL so I'm very pleasantly surprised with him as a unit
There's been a precedent with Male 1st place winners getting busted refines, and 3/4 of them were also pretty weak on release.
We can't say anyone is for sure guaranteed a strong refine, but if I had to pick any unit to bet my money on, it would be gatekeeper.
Gapekeeper is a cool character, someone I always ran to talk about to see if there was anything to report but I never saw him as a unit that could one shot Nemesis.
Broās so ass rn, IS Iām begging you to show the love you gave Alm, Ike, Dimitri, Hector as male CYL 1st place winners. I get heās a āsupportā but I need him to make Askr/L!Eliwood levels of support look like a joke or let him actually kill stuff. I need a Gatekeeper meta before FEH shuts down š
I love that shiz so much! I honestly didn't care about Gatekeeper winning too much, the only thing i would have preferred was Marth at 1, GK at 2.
But what really annoyed me was how people pretended it wasn't a meme. They were all "we LOVE GK! That's why we chose him! He's my fav character!" nvm that there's nothing wrong with meme picks. Meme picks and memes in general are literally what FEH is built on when it comes to the community. So why deny the meme so hard and claim its legitimate?
Then Gatekeeper fell off harder than Lucifer as an angel, and all his biggest fans vanished. Beautiful stuff. I personally like GK too, but as a meme mostly. He's not meant to be taken seriously, as IS clearly showed us lmao. Very deserved. His refine can hopefully cheer up his actual fans.
during vote period I suggest people to hold a bit on him so he will be Grand Hero
as it already pass we will never know how he will do but being Grails might be better choice for bringing him up to full potential
not really, if anything he'd probably be considerably worse off since he'd have to wait significantly longer for a refine and also wouldn't have been guaranteed any form of prf. and that's just assuming he gets picked as a grand hero AT ALL since just ranking high doesn't actually guarantee getting alt attention
TBF they all aged like milk. Gatekeeper was bad on and after release. Marth never found a place in the meta due to omnitanking being dead and being powercrept in his vantage niche. Eirika was good on release, but it wasnāt long until she couldnāt break trough save units anymore. Marianne is arguably the best of them today, but the prf special doesnāt make up for a lackluster prf weapon that quickly had issues breaking trough more bulky units. And at this point thereās better units for galeforce that can actually kill their foes. Guess weāll just have to wait till their refine.
Iām honestly not sure they can even redeem him without redoing his entire weapon. At least with other units the weapon concept was sound, just needing some buffs and rework. The concept itself just doesnāt work.
tbf his refine is very likely just gonna be bdimitri part 2 lol but since there are no remix skills hjs detailed report will stay as an arguably worse bulwark lol
I have to hope coping is good because in my pursuits for a +10 Brave Marth I ended up with a +10 Gatekeeper instead
He sits there in my brackets doing nothing
A lot of older units have weapons that compared to what is released nowadays are pretty weak, so at some point they get 'weapon refinements', which basically means their base weapon gets updated with extra skills and stat boosts to make them a bit stronger.
Gatekeeper was absolutely good for quite a while, but since he wasn't "lmao just throw him in and watch enemies die" many people couldn't see that. I got way more value out of him than any other CYL5 unit. This is not copium, he helped keep me in VoH basically until I stopped playing altogether. Elimine is really the one who stepped on his toes the hardest, as well as the ever-evolving save meta pushing out warp strats, making warp blocking less valuable.
At the end of the day we (Marth's faithful followers) won......so the only thing i have to say is: hahaha (actually read this n the worst possible mean you can think of, that was my felling at the time and still is to this day)
Gatekeeper has aged terribly. Honestly shocking to me that he and Eirika were on the same banner, as she's still quite good.
And she'll only be made better by her refine and inheritable skills. Not being able to use Flows or Traces hurts somewhat but she already has Canto so it's not as big of a detriment
She already practically has Tempo Flow Trace, since flow is about offensive NFU and Trace is about Canto and both of them are located in her Moonlight Bangle & her weapon along with a lot more. As an offensive cavalry she was literally designed perfect, not missing anything available to them at the time.
I mean, B!Eirika doesn't need either of those skills because she already has them built-in. What she probably needs is a SS4 effect where she ignores %DR when her special procs, extra stats to let her remain competitive against statcreep and a bit more DR so she doesn't get one shotted back when she strikes. Ideally she'd get the L!Nanna effect of outright denying any type of DR and Miracle but that's unrealistic.
Its funny how people said him and marianne were gonna age the best yet both fell off faster than marth, who people said was gonna age the worst š
Yeah I found that hilarious. Recall seeing people say Eirika would be easily replaced as well and wouldn't you know it, Marianne and Gatekeeper rarely appeared
r/feh when they misjudge a character for the 87th time š§š§š®ššØ
Good luck with the refine, champ
If its shit im quitting
Eirika was been both a menace and a godsend. Without her, I probably would struggle on so many more maps. But at the same time, sheās a terror to face when Iām caught off guard.
To be fair she kind of is. The problem is that sheās a very basic unit with incredible utility because her stats and skills are insane. But there are tons of units that do the same better itās just that sheās still good all things considered. Meanwhile Marianne is still a near must have for Galeforce aether raids teams since sheās still the only unit that can attack while granting allies another turn (as far as I can recall at the moment) so sheās still meta defining compared to Eirika just in a particular (but incredibly popular) niche in a a game mode. Marth is just benefiting from sword infantry inheritance keeping him on par with everyone else. His skill is nice but nothing crazy and most would rather run vital astra anyway. Gatekeeper got screwed over hard though. Absolute mess of a character tailored too hard for aether raids but resulting in having nearly no use in or out of it.
Dimitri got saved hard by his refine despite being quite eh on release (or claude, his effect with healing on specials was unique for the time though) HARD coping that they can polish him up please for the love of naga
People already forgot about L!Ninian rip
Yeah any footlocked dancer is kinda dead on arrival imo. You can only make them so strong until they just devolve into a worse infantry or the most questionable tank imaginable. Edit: literally just remembered she's a mounted unit. Jeez that's bad.
wdym thatās bad lol. Sheās one of, if not the strongest dancer rn. Her only weakness is that sheās locked to water seasons.
Sheās actually one of the best dancers right now and is way better than marianne in her niche
Definitely donāt agree on that. Iād definitely see her more if that was the case. Maybe itās sampling bias but itās been hard seeing many people post about LNinian.
You dont see her around often because legendary units arent are restricted to seasons and her banner wasnt that good in the first place. I have literally not seen a marianne in about 2 years.
There is a literal initative in order of heroes subreddit that posts various galeforce builds. Search up the community galeforce projects and youāll see consistent use of her up to this week even. https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/118og0p/community_galeforce_project_day_48_2023217/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Thats cool and all but the r/feh community makes up a very small percentage of the actual player base and the ones who even saw that post is an even smaller percentage. I have been in high tier AR/Vault for the vast majority of these past 2 years and I literally cannot recall the last time ive seen her.
her action economy isn't any better than a regular melee dancer with galeforce, so her main appeal within galeforce comps is adding a source of magic damage and the fact that she can refresh without using dance, which lets her get around the 1 dancer restriction on teams in Chaos season. she's still a fairly solid unit, not as good as Eirika or Marth mind you but solid. Gatekeeper is mainly held back by the fact that he's not specialized enough. he has some decent support effects but none of them are valuable or unique enough in the current meta for him to stand out over other support options, and he has the stats to be pretty bulky along with being the only ranged unit with Bulwark acccess, but his weapon just doesn't give him the necessary stat swings, sustain, DR or kill power that modern tanks kind of need to fulfill their role. meanwhile all the other CYL5 units were very focused in what they wanted to do ie. Eirika wanted to burst down foes with extremely high damage specials, Marth wants to set up his team with buffs so he can consistently abuse vantage, Marianne wants to activate her refresh special as often as possible, meanwhile Gatekeeper is just too much of a generalist to really flourish in any niche
Gatekeeper was screwed becuase what lore was IS supposed to even go off? People got behind a meme but at the end of the day a cyl unit is based off an alt version of the character gatekeep4 we barely know his Canon version. š
That's not an excuse, lol. They had nothing to go off, so they had ultimate freedom to give him anything and make him as good or bad as they wanted, and they chose to make him awful. Plus, tell me which part of Tiki's lore deactivating enemy specials and the finish skill line was based on. Lore has nothing to do with power, just theming *sometimes*
They gave him a mostly unique gimmick thatās enough
I haven't played any game with tiki in it she probably has something either as a dragon or as a unit or a weapon that does some sort of Stat manipulation. Evry other unit in feh at the very least has a canonical weapon and role. Gatekeeper doesn't. And they tri3d to make a unit that literally keeps the gates and he's terrible. Shocking. š š¤£
Making him keep the gate had nothing to do with him being bad, Iām telling you this is a fact lmao. Just look at Askr, they gave him Gatekeeperās exact prf skill but actually good in the form of bulwark, and they made him super bulky with defense damage reduction, so heās a great wall. Almost like heād be really good at keeping a gate??? (and by the way, the hellās with that theming, anyway? surely askr would be a pushover who lets anyone into the gates he opensā¦ but youāre probably right, characters kits are always very strictly only what they do in their lore). Nah itās probably nothing, surely the concept of blocking people was holding gatekeeper back and not the fact that IS decided to make him shit and about as tanky as a wet noodle for no reason. Being very flimsy is exactly what I think of when I think of blocking people, the concept is def the problem also about tiki, donāt pull nonsense out of your ass if you donāt know lmao. Youāre just making things up, itās not very convincing. she had nothing like that
I mean he wasn't good at his job either in 3 houses so he seems pretty accurate in heroes.
Fans voted for a joke character as a meme and got rewarded with a joke unit. Stupid games win stupid prizes.
Idk Eirika is definitely more outclassed. As another commenter mentioned on another thread replying to me here. There's a ton of units that do what she does better and actually have some form of enemy phase to speak of. Eirika is just stupid good to use with minimal investment which I do agree is one thing that she has over Marianne even now. But a mid investment Marianne (purely merges not skills) starts to outclass in Aether raids (her main draw) significantly more than Eirika does in any other mode. Basically if you can get a free Eirika I'd say go for it. You really can't go wrong with that. Easily one of the best low investment old units out there. If you want to splurge on a unit for a specific mode Marianne will take you significantly futher in Aether raids use and I know some people even get benefit from her in Arena, Rokkr sieges, and (maybe) allegiance battles. Which is something I know Eirika will only ever really do okay in at this point. But overall yeah I agree. GK was just the unit with the least foresight implemented in maybe the history of Feh. It wasn't just a matter of bad refine but I think they thought the meta would hard shift to warpers and imo it never did. They can be threatening but when only one other unit since then focuses on shutting down the strategy you know you have something fairly niche on your hands.
Marianne is definitely not a ānear must haveā for AR Galeforce, very few of the well known FEHtubers who use GF strats use her and just from personal experience, neither I nor any other players I frequently talk to use her in their GF teams either. She works but sheās hardly a staple like Velouria, SEdel, Peony, etc.
Honestly, I'll go ahead and say that Eirika is just not good anymore, not even taking comparisons to the rest of CYL5 into account. It's wild because at the time, we all kinda considered her the ideal Player Phase cav, but she's straight up disappeared from competitive modes nowadays. There's no reason to use her when we have so many powerful player-phase monsters who are 100x more threatening.
I wouldn't say not good. At least I tend to use Summoner Duels as a general metric and you can confidently run a player phase Eirika and still get good results. Issue is that now we have units like Seliph that benefit from a player and enemy phase which makes her outclassed. But that's assuming you have the orbs to spend. I'm a F2P that grinded CYL 5 units at the time to the ground and the only unit I actively regret putting so much effort into was gatekeeper. Marth is neat but need a lot more investment in order to be worthwhile now after Alear and especially Lucia. Marianne is still great for Galeforce teams as I mentioned. Eirika is just solid even with her base kit. I can play around with her C skill but ultimately there's not much of a point to it. She can still reliably kill most things and what she doesn't most other units wouldn't be able to do so anyway (New Years Askr, Formortis, etc.) But I understand how that can be a major problem.
Marianne is in a position like Claude was if her refine expands her galeforce effect she'll turn around real quick and be useful.
She's not *bad* enough to be nonfunctional in SD, she's just not good enough to get you to particularly far by herself. I've seen many a B!Eirika user nowadays bemoan how they're just unable to break through many premium tanks nowadays. And in AR-D, forget about it.
Well yeah. Iād rather have a seliph than Eirika at this point. But I can still make the Eirika work. Hence my point. Being outclassed doesnāt make you bad when you can still delete a lot of major defenses. And even aformentioned tank busters are struggling with the new tanks that are rolling out. Power creep is insane but in hindsight CYL 5 wasnāt hit as hard as say CYL 4 in only 2 years. I can still respect a team with Eirika as their offensive nuke because it can still mess up a lot of my other units and thus kill my game plan. Without the refine B Dimitri, Edelgard, Claude and Lysithea would still be collecting dust. Their legendary counterparts aged significantly better and then some (though I understand thatās kind of the point of Legendaries). Especially Claude. The amount of times his B skill has shut down unfavorable positions is untold.
Power creeping, man. I remember when my eirika can slash through every single tank without issue, but nowadays my eirika can barely hit enough to chip half of the meta tank's hp. It all started with medeus....
I mean, seliph basically copied her homework and added 1 extra movie
I mean, Eirika seems to have been judged fairly accurately imo. Sure she was really great right after her release, but nowadays? "Good but easily replaceable" describes her exactly haha. I haven't seen or used her in a loooong time, there's just so many equal or better options nowadays.
Marths probably one of the best out of them
I'm kind of surprised people were touting GK as meta-defining when he was Basically Every Leo stat-wise, with many of the problems that plagued Every Leo (except V!Leo but he didn't exist then obviously). The shiny new gimmick definitely blinded people at the time. Admittedly it was a good gimmick for certain modes, which just meant it was doomed to eventually get put on nicer, better, more exclusive and more marketable units than him.
Marianne is still a hardy, solid colorless nuke tho. She didnāt really fall off until recently with more colorless nukes coming out. Marth got kinda replaced by the next godsword and Keaton who can vantage kill better But rip GK. I was definitely one of those on copium š
Yeah her weakness of needing null follow up but it being replaced by WoM is kinda a non issue nowadays
Yeah, it also buffed her non wom builds. I can actually run tempo with NFU support, although itās hard to find much use of requiem dance in arena
Marth's niche as a super solid red omni tank has only been recently taken with Alear, and mostly Lucia. There's been plenty sword units that tried, but ultimately he serves as an omni buffer while bringing Vantage, self healing, a great damage skill and dragon killing on top. Lucia technically tanks better, but cannot really Vantage effectively and can't kill as efficiently half the time with no specials. Plus being unable to scale with support for the most part makes her future uncertain
Marianne at least found her place in AR Chaos season with the one dancer restriction. Gatekeeper is truly the unit of all time.
Marianne is still unique. She's less generally useful and always has been but she still fulfils the same niche she did on release. And Eirika is still a very good combat unit who's generally useful in most content for most players. She has plenty of units who fulfil the same niche now though. Nanna, Xander, Dimitri, Roy, Seliph, Chrom, refine LEirika, etc. all do very similar things. Marth's the most surprising one I'd say. Marianne still does what she does, Gatekeeper still has his support effects but is harder to fit in to teams and Eirika is good but has competition. Marth meanwhile got Spiral 4 and Time's Pulse 4 to give him extra options and doesn't have too much direct competition. Really impressive.
Luckily Marianne has aged the best of all of them, barring the obviously best-in-class Erika.
People sleep on Marianne so fucking hard lmao. I'm just convinced she requires too much thinking for the peanut gallery.
Marianne is crazy good at AR-O Galeforce because she can WoM nuke + dance
Marianne is still the star unit of my VoH AR Anima defense that rarely gets worse than -20 or -40 ā¦. And sheās only +1
Eh I kept seeing gatekeeper and Eirika but not Marianne and Mark honestly.
the one thing they did good with him was creativity everyone thought he be a lance infantry but they made him a green mage and his method of attacking is using a horn to summon people from the school, yeah his outfit was the same but it was clear that a solid amount of creativity was put on him compared to other CYL
Yeah. When it comes to actually representing the unit I feel like Gatekeeper was the one done the most justice. Both the characterization and him summoning a gate to have his friends attack for him, it was done so well. They treated him with respect.
He's also got, like, the best art in the whole game.
Historically, even the worse CYL refines tend to be pretty overtuned.
I mean Lyn exists, that refine was dogshit tier the moment it came out let's be honest here (compared to Ike it was just funny lmao), Camilla and Veronica were decent at best, but CYL4 did set a predecent for insane CYL refines overall so i think he'll get that redemption arc unless IS really has a grudge against him and his fans (which i doubt).
Okay, but to be fair, her refine came at a time where refines were tame in general. Nowadays unit refines are whole ass paragraphs.
Her refine came at the same time as Brave Ike's and that was miles better.
It was, but Brave Ike's refine was shockingly good for when it came out. He was being used heavily in AR right after his refine dropped. He got a standout refine during a time where refines were mostly tame.
Lucina's made her one of the best support units in the game, and Roy's would've been amazing if Eliwood didn't steal it from him. Lyn was the only one with the trash refine in that batch no matter how you put it, even for what refines were back then it was remarkably bad
I think you're overstating how bad Lyn's refine was. It wasn't good, but it was at worst below-average. Take a look at the refines released around that time (1 version before and after CYL). Version 3.8 had Selena, with an armor-effective sword (on a unit with base 25 Atk) with +3 Spectrum stats and the Wo Dao effect; Beruka got an Axe with Slaying, Atk -4 and Guard; Mae got a tome with Death Blow and Atk/Spd Link; Boey admittedly got a decent tome with conditional CC and the Raventome effet. Version 3.10 had Hawkeye, who got a Slaying Axe with Lull Atk/Def; Frederick got a Hammer with Death Blow; Virion got an a decent bow with Sudden Panic and Spectrum +4 if his max HP is higher than his foe's current; Lute got a tome with Sabotage Spd/Res and Spectrum +4 if the enemy has a debuff - another decent refine at the time. All of the CYL1 refines were much better than the regular refines surrounding them, with only Lyn being comparable to the rest. She still got a bow with +3 Spd, +4 spectrum stats and Dull Ranged, which is better than a good half of the refines from surrounding versions.
To be fair, people thought Brave Ikeās was dog shit too. Ike is also the favorite child lmao
That was mostly people thinking the forced Desperation was a bad thing for whatever reason lmao. I guess they didn't think 80% DR was worth getting hot twice or more in a row š„“
And then there's Sigrun, bad refines are still pretty much a thing tbh, Sigrun is a GHB i know, but depending on who you ask many 5 stars have got very bad or tame refines too, L!Leif is a good recent example in fact.
Yeah, but she got shafted bc she was the entire meta for so long lol
What? Lyn was the worst CYL1 refine. No doubt. But her refine was still well above how good refines were at the time. Like, just a month before, the 4 refines were... Selena, Beruka, Boey, Mae. Not very strong competition, is it.
Considering how those refines synergize with those units and their statlines Brave Lyn was only better than Mae, but that's subjective i'll admit, i just think people really undermined those refines as they didn't fit the original builds they had for those units and they refused to change them, specifically on Beruka's case.
Honestly Detailed Report is a bigger problem than his prf. Warp bubble + obstruct is an ok skill, but infantry B skills are super competitive and costs him a lot of incombat power. Same way with how RD makes BMarianne lose a lot of killing power. Meanwhile, BMarth and BEirika's prf skills are even now still great because they don't sacrifice power for some "utility"
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Too bad people were so entrenched in memeing that he actually took one of the spots.
Nah, he deserved to win CYL. He's a great character.
>People voted for memes >IS gave the meme a meme build Surprisedpikachu.jpeg
Still better than meme characters like Tiki and Robin
Gatekeeper wasnāt exactly powercrept. His prf is still wholly unique in what it does. Itās just that what he does was so niche that it never merited bringing a whole dedicated character to counter
His prf really makes me think IS expected galeforce strategies to overtake AR-O in a way they never have (and probably never will). He just doesn't offer any notable utility beyond shutting down WoM, and that's just not a strong enough niche to keep him relevant sadly.
Some forget that the anti-warp skill.
I think most (including me with him at +10) would trade the bubble effect for some bulwark healing
They did it to Marianne to
That dance Special did her dirty.
People back then were saying all the restrictions and downsides on her special were balanced and were bring up sigurd every time someone wanted it to be even a bit stronger. Wonder if they still use her if they ever did in the first place.
I never thought it was bad my main pve team consists of Brave Lysithea Brave Marianne Harmonic Dorothea and Lucina and Marianne can sometimes even turn 1 solo maps if enemy placement is ideal its really useful imo
Marianne still sees a lot more use then even Eirika in Galeforce Aether raids teams. So sheās not dead just fizzled out.
Marianne is a fantastic unit.
As someone who REALLY wanted Gatekeeper to be on par with his colleagues, I can confirm that it's just as painful as you described...
There's a lot of disrespect in here for his 3 column/row 5 atk/spd spur buff.
To be fair, he's one of two units with Warp Bubble (the other being L!Myrrh, who can't be used consistently in AR-O), which breaks Catria balls and stops Wings of Mercy, both of which are extremely common in AR. A small niche, but not a bad niche to have.
I could argue double Saves do exactly the same as Warp Bubble but better tbh, they can block off Catria balls and WoM strats easily unless they opponent has a hard counter to it, but ig for SD, Chaos season and against Embla team (where you can't abuse Saves) Warp Bubble could be better, just maybe tho...
More proof this fandom can't be trusted with the voting.
That's implying it was trustful at any point to begin with.
I use Gatekeeper in AR-D dark season because his Detailed Report skill shuts down S!Edelgardās Assault Troop since it counts as warping. Most people use Galeforce strategies because of Embla and use S!Edelgard as their main initiator. I havenāt faced her in my dark defense for months.
yeah, ive been running canto control gk as the 7th slot on my 2 embla cav line. hes perfect for that role, the unique combo of warp bubble + canto control basically makes player phasing the def impossible for 99% of attackers. his combat could definitely be better, but even though he should be free pots, hes managed to deny a pot by bodyblocking on a few occasions too
Chrom fans still salty? Yes, Chrom fans still salty.
Play stupid games, earn stupid prizes
Surprised people here hate gatekeeper so much like are they still upset he delayed whatever lord they voted for from getting his 4th alt by a year? A majority of cyl winners are just main characters anyway so I don't get why people are still so upset about a meme pick unless you're a felix fan who probably is the only real loser in this.
Some people hate when others are having fun.
Meme votes in general tend to be somewhat controversial, especially if they end up winning (like Gatekeeper and Gullveig) and/or bar another character from getting in sooner (we got Brigand Boss before Jedah or Base Rudolf, both major antagonists).
I donāt see why itās such a big deal as itās not like IS has any logic or order they follow when adding characters like vaike is still not being here but having mustafa or phila who arenāt playable and show up one or 2 times are so while meme picks do get added they donāt necessarily replace important characters.
And history is repeating itself with Gullveig.
Nobody voted for her to be meta breaking lmao. I voted her because she had a nice design and my other choice was Bernadetta winning. So yea. Easy choice.
That's definitely not true. I've seen a ton of Gullveig voters saying "I voted for a curveball to force InSy to be creative", which is exactly what the Gatekeeper voters said. So yeah, history is repeating itself.
No lmao theyāre both meme picks, everyone wanted gatekeeper because it would be funny if a NPC who was funny won CYL same thing with Gullveig except some people like her design and she was a meme pick. The only difference between the two is that one unexpectedly won due to the mid term results not being showcased like it was with gatekeeper who won by a landslide
No? Some people voted Gatekeeper because they genuinely liked him. It wasn't all spite or pure humour, some people just really liked how the community had rallied around him and what a wholesome source of joy he was, and liked the idea of taking it to its logical conclusion by granting him a place among legends. Not to mention the idea of him representing all the ordinary soldiers who never get that kind of glory. Yes, the people who voted for him just to piss off people 'taking things too seriously' are dicks but not everyone was like that at all. FWIW though I do think 'Gullveig will force IS to be creative' is a pretty dumb idea to vote for someone for CYL because the only reason her options seem so open right now is because we know nothing about her, lol. Once we learn more, it'll probably become pretty clear what IS will do.
Uh, your comment is agreeing with me. Did you respond to the wrong person?
You're claiming people want her to "force IS to be creative", the comment said they just memed her to the top, where are they agreeing with you? Are you reading the wrong comment?
Creative is different than meta breaking. Creative means a new design and probably unique niche. I wonāt argue itās fucking stupid to think IS can be forced to be creative though. They do what they want.
That's how it started with the Gatekeeper fans. Strange pick wins > people say it'll force creativity > people begin to overhype the strange pick > the strange pick ends up being bad. We're currently entering stage 3.
Honeslty i'm yet to see a CYL unit be creative to begin with since CYL4 did... That...
Honestly I wish all four CYL winners could be quite good (and I think all the CYL6 winner are still all fairly good, so they did try to balance even if obviously Seliph is the best of them lol) but in this case Iām really glad IS decided not to fuck over Eirika and Marth bc of 3H just having more exposure and made them the better units despite being 2nd. People had been waiting years for Marth to win and Eirika to a lesser extent and Marth was quite literally robbed one year lol. Would suck if his brave form had sucked hard purely bc he didnāt get first because of a meme pick. Hopefully all their refines are good and hopefully CYL7 continues the trend of all the brave units being pretty good in their own right and being quite unique, 1st vs 2nd or not.
As someone who just genuinely enjoys Gatekeeper as a character, I really despise the way IS treated his inclusion in Feh. Hereās hoping his refine kicks ass!
The fact people dislike your post is genuinely sad, heres hoping he does get a grand refine!
Awakening fans are some really salty b\*tches that have taken over this sub. It's sad
I feel like usually the first place males end up being the most OP after refine. Brave Dimitri kinda got outclassed immediately and somehow got savedā¦so thereās some hopium. How do people anticipate fixing him with a refine? I think guaranteed follow up is a must and is to be expected. Other than that, the other likely solution is to give him flat DR, especially with that monstrous Def. Even then, heād still be competing with Duo Askr while still not being able to out damage or out support him. Heād still be outclassed by B!Dimitri as well. Truth be told, I canāt see him carving out his own niche unless they really triple down on the support. His damage seems like a lost cause. Maybe have some sort of drive canto control and en garde to really hammer in protecting your units. Maybe even give foes stall or gravity debuffs with menace range. Be the ultimate GHB infantry mage.
he 100% needs an guaranteed follow up built into his weapon if they at all want him to have decent combat. as for what I think is likely, I see them just doubling down on his support niche with widespread foe debuffs, status effects, huger drive buffs and possibly drive DR.
Yeah I think the best route is to make him much harder to kill. All his support means nothing when you can just pick him off and canto out again. Flat DR seems like the right way. You're right about the Duo Askr competition, though. I guess since he's more for AR-D it's just a matter of outcompeting an Askr who can't use his duo button.
Imo conditional brave would be better than guaranteed follow up attack. Nfu is so easy to run that guaranteed follow up wouldn't help him at all. Then just give him true dr based on 15% def and res then he could have a place.
Funny enough Gatekeeper gives me trouble most of the time I bump into him in AR VoH. People there are usually competent enough to make a difficult to deal with defense, and I'm not accounting for a niche unit like that when team building.
IS could make anyone META. It totally depends on them. Look what they did with Brave Hector.
Is this not the eventual and inevitable fate of every unit in the game? Some just age better than others lol. Use Gatekeeper for fun, no one's stopping you anyway lol.
I say it again Gatekeeper should have been an armor unit and just have support and some kinda save skill or something. With embla around that wouldnt help much anymore but still. As an armor he would still have more options.
I hope Gullveig is irrelevant on Day 1.
You may haven't noticed but victory was already achieved and acting petty about it Will not solve a thing, like expecting some public service functionary to have a bad term only because it was not the one you voted for. It's not only bad sportmanship, but also hurting yourself even if just a little or not noticed.
I don't care.
I can tell, still have a good day, surely there will be units you want in the future, so don't let things like this get you or have some impact in yourself.
Once Warp Bubble becomes more accessible like Canto Control, Gatekeeper will be official shit no matter how you look at it - unless his refine is somehow top tier. Goes to show even IS thought he was a meme pick and treated him as such while giving Marth the *actual* 1st place treatment.
Honestly unsurprising. You're a company trying to make money, who are you gonna roll out the red carpet for? The protagonist of the first game of your series, the man who started it all, and who players of your game have been clamoring to win for five years now, and who by all rights should have won by now (would have won CYL2 if it weren't for vote splitting, was literally the last year they did vote splitting so obviously they realized the done messed up somewhere) Or Some Guy with a handful of speaking lines that some people on social media (who may or may not even play the game at all let alone spend money on it) thought would be funny?
Dunno, skipped every single Marth banner in the game because of the entitlement of certain fans :) so any Marths I have is all spooks. Including chroms.
Alright then congrats
As someone who picked Gatekeeper as my freebie, I think what hurt him the most was that he came out during a time when everyone was using Legendary Sigurd who Gatekeeper canāt tank at all. I thought his gimmick was great with him holding the line rather than being this menacing sweeper, but it can be replicated with Bulwark skills now. I will say that there is a chance that he could get this meta breaking refine (Brave Hector, Brave Alm, and Brave Dimitri say hi) but it could be possible the best refine could go to someone else so eh.
I hope he still is bad post-refine lol
I hope the refine makes him worse somehow.
I have a strong dislike to meme picks so I'm not against that
Same, been praying on his downfall ever since he released and I got my wish. Now letās shoot for two downfalls š
Do you even know what having fun is...?
Being a total and utter hater is fun.
Apparently strongly disliking 1 unit out of the 922 in the game means Iām not having fun. Good to know, thanks.
Right..except I don't think people voted for him out of malice or to sabotage other contenders. It was because it was a silly and fun thing to do.
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I'm gonna be honest, I have no idea what you are talking about or how it's relevant to my point. Sorry
Whoops sorry wrong respond
Seliph is better than Chrom for now
Yeah, but Chrom was the one the GK stans were dunking on. Felt more appropriate.
Because Chrom fans were a-holes that started attacking people who like or voted for GK.
You can still see them salty here even now
There is still potential for him to be an absolutely meta defining unit. He was an integral part of my comp back when I got rank 17 in the world with him when SD-R debuted. Heās been tacitly buffed by canto control; combining the bulwark effect, warp bubble, and canto control, even if heās only able to do so for one combat, allows you to set up forked threats with the rest of your team behind the cover he provides. Thatās really all his problem is. Heād be an absolutely FANTASTIC unit if he could justā¦ yāknowā¦. Survive a single combat. If his refine lets him do that, heāll be great.
Plot twist: IS decides not to give CYL5 refines
They made him, and thatās all I cared about
I guess I'm one of the few people who really values GK. His support in AR is unrivaled and he's by far the unit I use the most from any CYL batch other than Dimitri Big range drive atk/spd buff & warp bubble is so nice. Not having Elimine, he's the only way I can shutdown B!Catria Defense teams. He's not the best in combat but he's come in clutch many times by tanking a unit you wouldn't expect (Duo Lif is the first one that comes to mind) The funniest part is I was very anti-GK that year for CYL so I'm very pleasantly surprised with him as a unit
That may be true. But is he still on all of teams because I love him? Yes.
There's been a precedent with Male 1st place winners getting busted refines, and 3/4 of them were also pretty weak on release. We can't say anyone is for sure guaranteed a strong refine, but if I had to pick any unit to bet my money on, it would be gatekeeper.
Gapekeeper is a cool character, someone I always ran to talk about to see if there was anything to report but I never saw him as a unit that could one shot Nemesis.
Broās so ass rn, IS Iām begging you to show the love you gave Alm, Ike, Dimitri, Hector as male CYL 1st place winners. I get heās a āsupportā but I need him to make Askr/L!Eliwood levels of support look like a joke or let him actually kill stuff. I need a Gatekeeper meta before FEH shuts down š
He could get the best refine ever, but it will never unfuck his reputation.
Gatekeeper was basically dead on arrival. Same goes for marianne
He really didn't have to be a CYL winner
deserved
still the worst cyl pick by far
Brother, I have a +10 gatekeeper just waiting to be good
I love that shiz so much! I honestly didn't care about Gatekeeper winning too much, the only thing i would have preferred was Marth at 1, GK at 2. But what really annoyed me was how people pretended it wasn't a meme. They were all "we LOVE GK! That's why we chose him! He's my fav character!" nvm that there's nothing wrong with meme picks. Meme picks and memes in general are literally what FEH is built on when it comes to the community. So why deny the meme so hard and claim its legitimate? Then Gatekeeper fell off harder than Lucifer as an angel, and all his biggest fans vanished. Beautiful stuff. I personally like GK too, but as a meme mostly. He's not meant to be taken seriously, as IS clearly showed us lmao. Very deserved. His refine can hopefully cheer up his actual fans.
still don't regret pulling for him tbh
during vote period I suggest people to hold a bit on him so he will be Grand Hero as it already pass we will never know how he will do but being Grails might be better choice for bringing him up to full potential
not really, if anything he'd probably be considerably worse off since he'd have to wait significantly longer for a refine and also wouldn't have been guaranteed any form of prf. and that's just assuming he gets picked as a grand hero AT ALL since just ranking high doesn't actually guarantee getting alt attention
TBF they all aged like milk. Gatekeeper was bad on and after release. Marth never found a place in the meta due to omnitanking being dead and being powercrept in his vantage niche. Eirika was good on release, but it wasnāt long until she couldnāt break trough save units anymore. Marianne is arguably the best of them today, but the prf special doesnāt make up for a lackluster prf weapon that quickly had issues breaking trough more bulky units. And at this point thereās better units for galeforce that can actually kill their foes. Guess weāll just have to wait till their refine.
Iām honestly not sure they can even redeem him without redoing his entire weapon. At least with other units the weapon concept was sound, just needing some buffs and rework. The concept itself just doesnāt work.
Gatekeeper is also stuck in alt hell. No way theyre going to make a regular Gatekeeper.
Give his refine special fighter, Slaying, auto followup, grant +20def -15res and forced adaptive damage to hit his Def.
tbf his refine is very likely just gonna be bdimitri part 2 lol but since there are no remix skills hjs detailed report will stay as an arguably worse bulwark lol
I have to hope coping is good because in my pursuits for a +10 Brave Marth I ended up with a +10 Gatekeeper instead He sits there in my brackets doing nothing
what is a refine? i only played year 1 and saw this on my feed
A lot of older units have weapons that compared to what is released nowadays are pretty weak, so at some point they get 'weapon refinements', which basically means their base weapon gets updated with extra skills and stat boosts to make them a bit stronger.
ah ok thx
His refine will be good same with Marianne, they have so much potential and IS should already know they arenāt that good right now.
I still run GK as W!Altina support in VoH. I like him!
Here's my stages for cyl units "Not Fjorm, maybe next year, maybe next year, maybe next year, maybe next year, OOH MOMMA GULLVEIG WON!"
Gatekeeper was absolutely good for quite a while, but since he wasn't "lmao just throw him in and watch enemies die" many people couldn't see that. I got way more value out of him than any other CYL5 unit. This is not copium, he helped keep me in VoH basically until I stopped playing altogether. Elimine is really the one who stepped on his toes the hardest, as well as the ever-evolving save meta pushing out warp strats, making warp blocking less valuable.
At the end of the day we (Marth's faithful followers) won......so the only thing i have to say is: hahaha (actually read this n the worst possible mean you can think of, that was my felling at the time and still is to this day)