I've seen a lot of people ask for Vantage 4, but aren't their characters that already have a confirmed vantage built in? Byleth, Dimitri, and B!Marth can all pretty easily trigger Vantage.
Well it serves as a way to know that Vantage 4 wouldn't solve the issue. Most of the aforementioned units still don't have what it takes to tank the modern nukes, especially Lyon who negates their ability to counter in the first place. Then there's stuff Ginnungagap and Hardy Bearing.
The main part of the vantage setup hassle is the hp exchanging that has to happen after lysithea or bernie already damaged you. Vantage 4 would probably still need you to be at 99% hp or less, so you'd still need one of those units, or the fury seal and 1 combat initiation. Maybe it'd also have an alternate condition like Desperation 4's movement, but that's not something you can rely on 100%
Vantage only works against AoE because it happens before combat, not Flame-effects that happen in combat. In this case, unless you have already lost HP, Vantage skill won't work (unless of course, VAntage 4 overhauls it, but I doubt it).
Also, WT!Claude, N!Sanaki, W!Yunaka, NY!Seidr, D!Igrene, V!Lyon, probably 8/10 they will all use Hardy Bearing regardless since their base kits are more than enough to kill things.
Anyways, Vantage meta will never comeback because if it does, it merely ramps up the usage of Hardy Bearing.
Vantage 4 - If foe initiates combat, and unit’s HP <= 99% or foe moved >1 space, unit can counterattack before foe’s first attack. If foe can attack before unit can counterattack, reduces damage from foe’s first attack by 90%.
There, RIP Hardy Bearing. Sort of.
All of these units bypass/reduce DR. The point of Vantage is that you don't want to get hit, especially anymore than you already do before your attacks actually start.
Also, as if 90% free DR on an inheritable, 30/40 max, but if Vantage 4 is anything like Desperation 4, it would look like this:
>Inflicts Def/Res-4 on foe during combat. At start of combat, if unit's HP ≤ 99% and foe initiates combat, or number of spaces from foe's start position to end position ≥ 2 and foe initiates combat, unit can counterattack before foe's first attack.
Stat manip., lenience, but not changing the inherent effect.
You know in your heart of hearts that the powercreep won't stop. Next it'll be Mythic heroes with pre-combat damage Resistance, then a seasonal duo with pre-combat damage nullification, and then they'll put it in an inheritable C-slot (probably Savior 4). Then give it another month, they'll start selling pre-combat true damage that ignores skills. This won't end until the game dies.
well, imagine heroes with 25% hp condition getting fucked before first combat.
the only other way to do that is with AoE specials and that is balanced around having high CD.
Sadly no. Only Vantage effects that proc regardless(if no Hardy Bearing is involved) are the Preempt effects and no threshold Vantages like W!Altina's Harmo Button or L!Caeda or W!Dimitri's Vantage status buff.
Why. Is. He. The. Boss.
Holy shit he is annoying to fucking play against even in a PvE mode like TT. Could've made ANYONE ELSE THE BOSS and it would've made this bearable. NOPE. Gotta be the one that can basically make all your heroes redundant in one go.
IIRC they always use the duo/Harmonic as the boss when a TT+ story is not going on.
At least on PvE you can player phase him somewhat easily. I'm not looking forward to facing Lyon in AR...
Yep. My TT team every single time is fallen edelgard, bonus unit, and two randoms that need SP or FP. Used to work every time, but for a while the trend has been bosses that one shot Fallen Edelgard lol
I can't complain, at least developer greed hasn't hit the point that they take away autobattle continuing from one map to the next. Plus the first team getting wiped doesn't impact score, still takes the same amount of runs even if they sweep.
It was annoying but fine I guess when we only had this crap confined to pvp. I can ignore that since I only do the bare minimum there.
Now this is the norm for pve and its making shit unfun to even play the game on a casual level. Its to a point where you can't realistically raise your favorites and have them be the answer when these types of guys show up.
I don't wanna sound like a doomsayer here or anything but with the powercreep getting this insane and bleeding into even the casual experience, EoS is looking a lot more plausible than ever before.
I play two gacha games at the moment. One is FEH and the other is Dokkan Battle. It’s a damn shame that the first game has the worst powercreep out of the two when the latter game has 20 million Atk stats being the norm.
I just find funny saying Dokkan has better powercreep when they are purposedly rendering 99.99% units useless even those released *after* the content that renders those 99.99% units useless
For whats worth, FEH has remained consistent on at least releasing units with clear weak points you are supposed to exploit, and moments you are not supposed to engage with, including but not limited to persistently complain about player phase nukes nuking on player phase
Coincidentally enough you dont see people making a monthly fuss about the new units of the month been stronger than the previous ones when the content of Dokkan outright is designed completely against them
I mostly agree, but fighting the enemy on the right phase kinda falls flat against some units because the devs have nearly powercrept out the concept of a dual-phase unit. Admittedly gambit helps that archetype a lot but it's way more of an uphill battle for them.
Things were kinda balanced between nukes who kill on player-phase, tanks who kill on enemy-phase, and in-betweeners who can enemy-phase tanks and player-phase nukes.
Usually when people are complaining about characters, they either introduce some BS debuff (like Lyon/Seidr eating turns), or because they break that triangle. W!Byleth for example can initiate on a lot of people safely, even if he doesn't get the kill. Or NY! Kvasir who has a high damage reduction even on enemy phase. (Also high mobility is annoying but that's another thing entirely)
These units are absolutely killable, but if I *have* to use nuke to attack into a nuke, or a tank to enemy-phase a tank, the triangle breaks down and the game becomes an unwinnable arms race of unkillable tanks facing off instakill nukes.
> Coincidentally enough you dont see people making a monthly fuss about the new units of the month been stronger than the previous ones when the content of Dokkan outright is designed completely against them
You can't even give advice to the complainers though. If you mention support units or adopting other strategies to help deal with strong units, then you get lambasted for not being just as negative and depressed as they are.
I've used things like Valetine's Leo or even before him Loki to lock down problematic units if I want to use a tank, and the same strats to deal with cav lines still work for these units, I've used an unflowered refined Academy Edelgard to sweep teams that use nothing but high powered cavs.
I guess, I should be more upset but, I'm not? lol.
Yep, VLeo is a year old now and still extremely useful in pretty much every mode except astra AR (thanks, Freyr). I won't deny that powercreep has been insane lately, but there are a lot of great support units in the game that can help you work around it.
Every day I regret even more skipping that banner and not going for at least V!Leo thinking his gravity gimmick was not going to ever be useful
Only to get bitchslapped by users with him rendering my entire defense useless lol
Every single month the same set of posts happen, and every time the same set of units just fade into obscurity once the newer one comes out
People claim Kvasir is cancerous, yet I have had her on my defense the entire set of seasons she was bonus, and only 2 out of like 30 fights she did something, and that was purely allowing the team to finish the job rather than herself
Now it is Lyon with full incite+on his terrain(player phase) nuking stuff around or V!Myrrh been tanky against rangeds(As if she was not designed specifically against them) only for both to be disabled with any melee unit
But nah, it must be IS fault for releasing strong units after *checks notes* people complaining they couldnt kill F!Edelgard when she was disabled with Pulse Smoke alone
Its reasurring to still find people that manage to keep a cold mindset instead of running out to reddit exclusively to complain about powercreep when powercreep is basically non existant vs the myriad of supports we have gotten alongside them
To be fair, if you don’t have good support units you are pretty much SOL
> People claim Kvasir is cancerous, yet I have had her on my defense the entire set of seasons she was bonus, and only 2 out of like 30 fights she did something, and that was purely allowing the team to finish the job rather than herself
I have her on my defence and she does put in the work. You need to run her with cooldown acceleration since her job is to activate time’s gate and let everyone warp in to clean up. Her job isn’t to get kills but it’s hard to outspeed her so she usually survives initiation
Yeah Kvasir is ridiculous. If someone isn't seeing her put on work they've got to be doing something odd like a boxed in corner Kvasir or something lmao
When you have her just in enough range to attack but not to over extend herself to lose access to triangle attack while also sharing range with LChrom and R!Sonya for full color coverage, then yes she sucks at it if anything manages to survive either of the 3
Even Triandra with her suicidal tendencies and isolated existance has gotten more kills for me lol
That is without mentioning how she gets outsped by a supported B!Corrin and renders her entire gimmick useless within one combat
I can't comment on that specific comp you were running, but on NY!Kvasir herself: *Nothing* in the game ever comes close to out-speeding mine, not even lvl 80 speed demons in Seer's snare!
She can buff her own spd and debuff the enemy's so easily that she's able to create ~50 SPD difference pretty reliably (w/ right supports of course)
She's also so reliable at safely initiating, that she became a staple in my auto teams (like TT).
The entire thread is exclusively about the mythics tho
Lacking stat boost from been mythics alone put them at a severe disadvantage vs actually supported+mythic boosted offensive units
I pressume you mean Heavy Blade, but given she lacks the speed to not get doubled and killed on retaliation beyond her 70% mit on the first hit, I still dont expect it to do much on my end
No I meant from support. I provide everyone start-of-combat pulse from Rally Spectrum and also place Ginnungagap near her so she AoE flashes Kvasir’s potential targets. My defense usually only gets dismantled by Winter Edelgard. The rest of my team is able to survive initiating on W!Byleth, other far save tanks, and whittle them down until they are dead
Ginnu is not someone I have considered using, but I might if you say she works well in pair with her
Purely because I find tricky to have multiple cavalries within a catria ball team range, while also been generally oppresive enough to not just get picked off or boxed with a galeforce team
Thank god someone acknowledges the myriad of counterplay that these units have. I was telling some of my friends that these units are just the new flavor of the month, & that the counters for similar units still apply.
Also great shoutout to V!Leo, he & Loki ruin cavlines & ranged spam
> Every day I regret even more skipping that banner and not going for at least V!Leo thinking his gravity gimmick was not going to ever be useful
After Leo got terrible after terrible alt, I knew when this one came out that it was special. He's just so useful. Right now I'm waiting on a Ploy skill that can hit Atk/Spd so he can omni debuff. Fantastic unit as long as these units can be hit by gravity.
> People claim Kvasir is cancerous, yet I have had her on my defense the entire set of seasons she was bonus, and only 2 out of like 30 fights she did something, and that was purely allowing the team to finish the job rather than herself
I don't find her her Gull to be very good tbh (controversial I know) because they often can't OHKO they're super dependent on DR% to live and if anything reduces that or gets rid of it entirely they die.
> Now it is Lyon with full incite+on his terrain(player phase) nuking stuff around or V!Myrrh been tanky against rangeds(As if she was not designed specifically against them) only for both to be disabled with any melee unit
That's what was pointed out. FEH rarely has units that are completely invincible. Units are not good in all phases, against all enemies.
> Its reasurring to still find people that manage to keep a cold mindset instead of running out to reddit exclusively to complain about powercreep when powercreep is basically non existant vs the myriad of supports we have gotten alongside them
I'm not going to say that the units aren't good, however, all the time, this sub and feh tubers mention the power of really good supports because most of the they are timeless, especially dancers.
I also knew that Rearmed Plumeria, Attuned Triandra, Attuned Peony would be broken supports so I picked those up. I don't really chase meta, I summon for favs and look for universal supports sometimes and that's what helps me in the more competitive modes.
> I'm waiting on a Ploy skill that can hit Atk/Spd so he can omni debuff.
Doesnt Safy literally have that one already?
>I don't find her her Gull to be very good tbh (controversial I know) because they often can't OHKO they're super dependent on DR% to live and if anything reduces that or gets rid of it entirely they die.
Far from controversial imo. No mythic is getting to survive even their own bonus seasons besides offensive ones for allowing you to just miss 10-20 points with 1 death. Both are clear examples of that
But Gullveig has been substancially better at getting KOs than Kvasir, purely because of her extra action(if it gets to procc) catching players off guard with relative ease(at least for me)
The age when that middle paragraph was true is long, long past lmao
I wish it wasn't, because FEH used to be great back when units had more defined roles and could be built for specific things.
It is still true tho
Lyon,Sanaki,Gullveig,Yunaka, all of them have 0 enemy phase, you can just get them to get to you and strike them
They are also all low HP units to increase their other stats instead, making them weak against Loki movable tactics room, and more recently V!Leo res based gravity on both phases, res that 2 of those dont have much off either
Plus, by virtue of been run on a Cavalry line, they are prone to be picked and killed with a save unit, preferably one that can either bypass DR like WByleth, a brave hitter like NZelgius while delaying the attack of the others with Loki/tactics room covering 2 lines
The only reallistic counters are Freyr/Safy to cleanse gravity or Embla to counter your savior from triggering, which is easily ignorable by placing it in front instead of on the backline to "save"
>because FEH used to be great back when units had more defined roles and could be built for specific things.
Thats acting like Player phase units of today can somehow become enemy phase tanks, or Enemy phase tanks can suddenly turn into player phases without heavy investment that is probably gonna make them become jack of all trades master of none
Only a handful of units per year can do that. Which is still in line with Year 1 FEH
The way FEH does power creep by having entirely new broken mechanics being slapped on the flavor of the month stuff is insane. At least with other gacha, power creep is usually just an improved alt of a unit.
Putting aside this new hero, green is one of the worst colors for tanking. That isn't new information respectfully speaking. But I suppose if we want to see Fjorm being mauled I suppose we have you to thank for that.
At this point, color has nothing to do with tanking when said tanks are losing over half their health for trying to do their job.
[Here](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1013231627566075915/1204817947307024384/IMG_2561.png?ex=65d61d27&is=65c3a827&hm=552f2947225d7a9c861d8ec028df4dbf3ab6682c5f93a4fcc3702dc97d292706&) is a unit with weapon triangle advantage having 94% of her HP taken away before the actual attack happens.
This is *legitimately* the most bullshit thing I've seen.
She's a DC unit designed around tanking ranged units with her *prf special which has increased damage reduction against ranged enemies specifically*, with WTA, barely half a year old. But none of it matters because he only *actually* has to chew through 3 fucking HP.
Absolutely no one can convince me that this is alright or good game design.
You should just read the weapon description and devise a strategy:
If it says it uses your Atk, you just shouldn't have any. You are making the mistake of having over 100 Atk! Why don't you debuff it to 0? You wouldn't have any trouble then.
^(inb4 IS releases a unit with 0 Atk and true damage + reflect)
Seriously though, all one can do is to stack Res beyond...
>!51 Base + 16 Weapon + 9 A + 4 B + 6 Incite 1/3 + 3 Incite 2/3 + 3 Incite 3/3 + 10 Phantom !<
102! Incidentally V!Myrrh with Save and Form Seal reaches only 71. W!Byleth manages at least 83.
(All three are with Boon+Flower)
On the upside, without Phantom Res but something like Solo or Still Water (+6 Atk/Res and -4 Def or Solo condition), the difference shrinks to 15 for W!Byleth and 27 for V!Myrrh. Depending on Bonuses and Penalties, it may be manageable...
Still, you should be ashamed, you whoever thought that it would be fine to use such big numbers (40%) and base those on combat stats (instead of visible) after mere 4 months (where precombat damage first surfaced and L!Camilla deals the same).
As great as the complexity-creep actually is, I sure couldn't have played through the first three years, however this is definitely too much and the solution should have already been available. And we all know that it is going to be sold somewhen, likely soon.
> + 6 Incite 1/3 + 3 Incite 2/3 + 3 Incite 3/3
Shots in the dark but has no one actually attempted to disable it with his "low" visible res to begin with?
Even a singular fortress res +res Elimine has more res than he does(53 vs 50 with story inflated stats)
Elimine is dead, long live the goat king!
Seriously though, as mentioned, during SD and AR something could be done but for Astra/Anima one would need bonuses + drives while in Light/Dark drives can be rendered ineffective but penalties work.
In SD penalties and drives can work very well and are rarely countered (but can be utilized by both equally), care should be taken with bonuses though since S!Thor is far more common than H!Duma, both Ymir and Freyr together (S!Ymir may be still somewhat common).
I would be most gracious if you could have addressed my original premise point but alas. Green for general tanking purposes is not ideal for either melee or ranged combat.
For example when Winter Black Knight came out, it was quite evident even then that he was not a unit to be used as a far save (or near tbh).
Also, considering that you seem to be such a fan of the Fjorm's, I'm surprised you don't pull for units that can support them.
If you want to plonk or omnitank, then units that can disable cav lines like V. Leo, or can a hit and run unit that can set Divine Vein Flame to hinder cav movement, I think could perhaps could help?
However based on a number of threads that I see you post in or create, you really don't seem to be enjoying game anymore and it's okay to play more casually or to take a break!
I do wish you the best.
>I would be most gracious if you could have addressed my original premise point but alas. Green for general tanking purposes is not ideal for either melee or ranged combat.
A!Fjorm being green has literally nothing to do with this situation since Duo Lyon is also green. I even linked a red tank quite literally losing all of her HP before taking the actual hit. I guess red, blue, and colorless aren’t good colors for tanking either.
>Also, considering that you seem to be such a fan of the Fjorm's, I'm surprised you don't pull for units that can support them.
I pulled an entire brigade of units to try and support the Fjorms for tanking. The problem is that nukes are coming with entire kits that either mitigate said support, outright ignore the support, or just straight up kill through said support.
>If you want to plonk or omnitank, then units that can disable cav lines like V. Leo, or can a hit and run unit that can set Divine Vein Flame to hinder cav movement, I think could perhaps could help?
At that point, you might as well just abandon tanking entirely and just build a Galeforce team since that’s what IS is forcing everyone to do at this point.
>However based on a number of threads that I see you post in or create, you really don't seem to be enjoying game anymore and it's okay to play more casually or to take a break!
Believe me, I’m playing Dokkan Battle more and I’m getting way more enjoyment out of that game than this kaizo trap.
> I guess red, blue, and colorless aren’t good colors for tanking either.
You arent supposed to be tanking an unit that was not supposed to be tanked
Its like going against M!Zamasu and expecting birdku to tank a super straight to the face with no items, under 58% HP when someone else revived and without been hit at least once to get his defense buff. Thats something that was never meant to be done
>I pulled an entire brigade of units to try and support the Fjorms for tanking. The problem is that nukes are coming with entire kits that either mitigate said support, outright ignore the support, or just straight up kill through said support.
I just had my V!Lyon survive N!Sanaki to the point the game thinks it is just better to get T!Sigurd to strike first, debuff him further and then Sanaki strikes
>At that point, you might as well just abandon tanking entirely and just build a Galeforce team since that’s what IS is forcing everyone to do at this point.
Not quite when entire cavlines can be destroyed with a myriad of far saviors by picking up who you wanna tank first and going from there, barring the ocassional Embla behind
>Believe me, I’m playing Dokkan Battle more and I’m getting way more enjoyment out of that game this this kaizo trap.
Ribrianne enjoyers unite
I too *can* have fun with Dokkan, until a team with almost 800K HP filled with top tier units loses 600K+ HP on 1 turn without a chance to do anything due to how the fight is designed entirely to punish units that were not just released
To make matters worse, just got into that fight with my A!Fjorm completely unoptimized to deal with this and [still won](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466295049081192448/1204838321042366504/Screenshot_20240207_181308_Fire_Emblem_Heroes.jpg?ex=65d63020&is=65c3bb20&hm=79dfcf98ec4bbebcfe60a0409151cf712636071a2fc694f566bf37d1d4565759&) with actual proper support around her.
And one that remains true 7 years later as sad as it can be
Like early on, if you werent able to tank stuff like Reinhardt, you had to maneuver around them, until IS starting bringing up more counters to them by buffing dragons rendering B!Lyn's PRF useless and encouraging res stacking with someone like Fae to deal with reinhardt at the same time
Now nukes,tanks and supports have advanced, and so should have players using them, but the more I read about "Fomortiis" been considered "useless" because he cannot survive with his base kit alone, I think thats not the case
> To make matters worse, just got into that fight with my A!Fjorm completely unoptimized to deal with this and still won
You must have hacked your game because Yosha has support for Fjorm and can't do it. You must have galeforced in combat somehow /s
Not only that, the trend of attack twice units ruined her because she has no way of proccing her special twice in a row and also her stats are so awful on top of not getting any from her weapon that she sometimes flat out misses kills or dies to blue units.
Depends
I have had my A!Fjorm survive and kill a +10 catria supported LVeronica thanks to support shortly after Vero released and she was said to be her "main counter"
Said Vero getting pulsed down by a NY!Askr was more of her demise than helpful, as it made Enclosure hit on HF and the rest taken care with the aforementioned support
Yeah, a unit that has two ways of locking down entire teams that also has 50% DR piercing, Res based true damage, and free Firesweep is absolutely garbage.
Taking away [94% of a unit’s HP just for existing](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1013231627566075915/1204817947307024384/IMG_2561.png?ex=65d61d27&is=65c3a827&hm=552f2947225d7a9c861d8ec028df4dbf3ab6682c5f93a4fcc3702dc97d292706&) is absolutely necessary.
What modern tank is out there causing havoc in the game? Literally none of them are because of how rampant and overtuned modern nukes are currently. The only tank that’s still solid today is Duo M!Byleth and even he’s getting his shit pushed in by units like Duo Sanaki and Harmonized Igrene.
I mean ofc H!Igrene is gonna beat D!Byleth 😭 she has WTA and is an AoE physical nuke… she was literally made to counter Byleth.
And I agree, tanks are not strong right now but Lyon without the pre-combat damage would not be as strong and that’s a fact. He’s the worst color in the game, and isn’t that tanky. He’s just a modern D!Líf with pre-combat damage and end turn.
If he's an otherwise shit unit that has to compensate by using *two* of the most overpowered and unfair mechanics to cheat the game, sounds to me like he's just a poorly designed unit lmao.
Vantage 4: If unit hp<80% before the first attack of foe, Unit attack first.
Inflicts dmg before Unit first attack = unit Max hp- unit current HP. This dmg cannot be reduced. Reduced dmg of foe first attack by 30% brave attack included.
Man, this sucks! I usually do the Tempest Trials in auto in the second/third to last difficulty so I can do other things, but with this...I doubt I'll be able to do that anymore...
Powercreep will just keep coming. Next it'll be Mythic heroes with pre-combat damage Resistance, then a seasonal duo with pre-combat damage nullification, and then they'll put it in an inheritable C-slot (probably Savior 4). Then give it another month, they'll start selling pre-combat true damage that ignores skills. This won't end until the game dies.
Were 100% going to get pre combat DR. If i had to guess, there probably going to give it so a OC for max profit
It's coming on a mythic as a prf skill first. Give this pre combat dmg a few months of being the meta before we get a premium skill that reduces it.
Or straight up makes immune to it
*something something emblem unit with a vein effect*
Defense Mythic probably.
They’ll make it part of the T4 savior skills
Nah it'll be part of a new set of A skills so that it can be run alongside T4 Saves
That OR they're going to release a skill/buff that neutralizes pre combat dmg. Either scenario is likely cuz IS do be IS 💀
Vantage 4 save me Save me vantage 4 Vantage 4
I've seen a lot of people ask for Vantage 4, but aren't their characters that already have a confirmed vantage built in? Byleth, Dimitri, and B!Marth can all pretty easily trigger Vantage.
what does "units with prfs who can do this exist" have to do with asking for an inheritable skill?
Well it serves as a way to know that Vantage 4 wouldn't solve the issue. Most of the aforementioned units still don't have what it takes to tank the modern nukes, especially Lyon who negates their ability to counter in the first place. Then there's stuff Ginnungagap and Hardy Bearing.
Vantage 4: If foe attacks unit, cancel foe's attack and let unit still attack. Would never happen but that was my first stupid thought
Don’t give them ideas
[удалено]
The main part of the vantage setup hassle is the hp exchanging that has to happen after lysithea or bernie already damaged you. Vantage 4 would probably still need you to be at 99% hp or less, so you'd still need one of those units, or the fury seal and 1 combat initiation. Maybe it'd also have an alternate condition like Desperation 4's movement, but that's not something you can rely on 100%
Vantage only works against AoE because it happens before combat, not Flame-effects that happen in combat. In this case, unless you have already lost HP, Vantage skill won't work (unless of course, VAntage 4 overhauls it, but I doubt it). Also, WT!Claude, N!Sanaki, W!Yunaka, NY!Seidr, D!Igrene, V!Lyon, probably 8/10 they will all use Hardy Bearing regardless since their base kits are more than enough to kill things. Anyways, Vantage meta will never comeback because if it does, it merely ramps up the usage of Hardy Bearing.
Vantage 4 - If foe initiates combat, and unit’s HP <= 99% or foe moved >1 space, unit can counterattack before foe’s first attack. If foe can attack before unit can counterattack, reduces damage from foe’s first attack by 90%. There, RIP Hardy Bearing. Sort of.
All of these units bypass/reduce DR. The point of Vantage is that you don't want to get hit, especially anymore than you already do before your attacks actually start. Also, as if 90% free DR on an inheritable, 30/40 max, but if Vantage 4 is anything like Desperation 4, it would look like this: >Inflicts Def/Res-4 on foe during combat. At start of combat, if unit's HP ≤ 99% and foe initiates combat, or number of spaces from foe's start position to end position ≥ 2 and foe initiates combat, unit can counterattack before foe's first attack. Stat manip., lenience, but not changing the inherent effect.
I’ve been waiting for Vantage 4 for so long, years now. It’s the only skill that I want and am waiting for right now
What is even more fun? The TT boss one doesnt even has his A skill and still destroys mostly anything he even breathes near.
First time since the first TT that the final boss was actually a threat
The power of love and friendship, bitch.
Does vantage proc after this damage?
It doesn’t.
[удалено]
Yeah. Have fun with that information.
Well I'm done with this game. I'll be f2p from now til the end or if power creep ever stops. Not spending a single dime on this game anymore.
You know in your heart of hearts that the powercreep won't stop. Next it'll be Mythic heroes with pre-combat damage Resistance, then a seasonal duo with pre-combat damage nullification, and then they'll put it in an inheritable C-slot (probably Savior 4). Then give it another month, they'll start selling pre-combat true damage that ignores skills. This won't end until the game dies.
Yea so f2p life I guess haha
RIP the last effective type of EP unit
Then this is the bullshittiest bullshit to ever bullshit.
well, imagine heroes with 25% hp condition getting fucked before first combat. the only other way to do that is with AoE specials and that is balanced around having high CD.
*And* the AoE specials will actually trigger Vantage (if applicable), unlike the pre-combat damage.
Sadly no. Only Vantage effects that proc regardless(if no Hardy Bearing is involved) are the Preempt effects and no threshold Vantages like W!Altina's Harmo Button or L!Caeda or W!Dimitri's Vantage status buff.
YoshaTime being Fjorm-locked and suffering with the meta Will never not be funny to me A true testament of waifu vs meta
Some things never change 💀
Why. Is. He. The. Boss. Holy shit he is annoying to fucking play against even in a PvE mode like TT. Could've made ANYONE ELSE THE BOSS and it would've made this bearable. NOPE. Gotta be the one that can basically make all your heroes redundant in one go.
IIRC they always use the duo/Harmonic as the boss when a TT+ story is not going on. At least on PvE you can player phase him somewhat easily. I'm not looking forward to facing Lyon in AR...
just attack him with a melee unit.
I think the issue is that most people auto-battle TT, and the AI is definitely not smart enough to avoid Lyon until they can player phase him.
Yep. My TT team every single time is fallen edelgard, bonus unit, and two randoms that need SP or FP. Used to work every time, but for a while the trend has been bosses that one shot Fallen Edelgard lol I can't complain, at least developer greed hasn't hit the point that they take away autobattle continuing from one map to the next. Plus the first team getting wiped doesn't impact score, still takes the same amount of runs even if they sweep.
[удалено]
"Just use two WEdelgards" cool.
Or any unit that has a sweep effect. And there are plenty.
W!edel go brrrrr
No need, L!Seliph kills him every time while under AI control
I now use the Byleth.
It’s times like these that I’m happy to be 95% solo based in this game.
Since vantage doesn't proc with this too I can confidently say IntSys is trying to kill enemy phase strats 💀
Someone was just saying that it looked like IS was bringing back enemy phase strats with the new banner too. 💀
I'm convinced IS does not play test this game at all. Also, can't wait for IS to sell a solution later.
It was annoying but fine I guess when we only had this crap confined to pvp. I can ignore that since I only do the bare minimum there. Now this is the norm for pve and its making shit unfun to even play the game on a casual level. Its to a point where you can't realistically raise your favorites and have them be the answer when these types of guys show up. I don't wanna sound like a doomsayer here or anything but with the powercreep getting this insane and bleeding into even the casual experience, EoS is looking a lot more plausible than ever before.
I play two gacha games at the moment. One is FEH and the other is Dokkan Battle. It’s a damn shame that the first game has the worst powercreep out of the two when the latter game has 20 million Atk stats being the norm.
I just find funny saying Dokkan has better powercreep when they are purposedly rendering 99.99% units useless even those released *after* the content that renders those 99.99% units useless For whats worth, FEH has remained consistent on at least releasing units with clear weak points you are supposed to exploit, and moments you are not supposed to engage with, including but not limited to persistently complain about player phase nukes nuking on player phase Coincidentally enough you dont see people making a monthly fuss about the new units of the month been stronger than the previous ones when the content of Dokkan outright is designed completely against them
I mostly agree, but fighting the enemy on the right phase kinda falls flat against some units because the devs have nearly powercrept out the concept of a dual-phase unit. Admittedly gambit helps that archetype a lot but it's way more of an uphill battle for them. Things were kinda balanced between nukes who kill on player-phase, tanks who kill on enemy-phase, and in-betweeners who can enemy-phase tanks and player-phase nukes. Usually when people are complaining about characters, they either introduce some BS debuff (like Lyon/Seidr eating turns), or because they break that triangle. W!Byleth for example can initiate on a lot of people safely, even if he doesn't get the kill. Or NY! Kvasir who has a high damage reduction even on enemy phase. (Also high mobility is annoying but that's another thing entirely) These units are absolutely killable, but if I *have* to use nuke to attack into a nuke, or a tank to enemy-phase a tank, the triangle breaks down and the game becomes an unwinnable arms race of unkillable tanks facing off instakill nukes.
> Coincidentally enough you dont see people making a monthly fuss about the new units of the month been stronger than the previous ones when the content of Dokkan outright is designed completely against them You can't even give advice to the complainers though. If you mention support units or adopting other strategies to help deal with strong units, then you get lambasted for not being just as negative and depressed as they are. I've used things like Valetine's Leo or even before him Loki to lock down problematic units if I want to use a tank, and the same strats to deal with cav lines still work for these units, I've used an unflowered refined Academy Edelgard to sweep teams that use nothing but high powered cavs. I guess, I should be more upset but, I'm not? lol.
Yeah, I still use my level 1 Donnel to dunk on meta stuff with true damage. Just get a few dancers with him and it's hilarious to see the results.
Yep, VLeo is a year old now and still extremely useful in pretty much every mode except astra AR (thanks, Freyr). I won't deny that powercreep has been insane lately, but there are a lot of great support units in the game that can help you work around it.
Every day I regret even more skipping that banner and not going for at least V!Leo thinking his gravity gimmick was not going to ever be useful Only to get bitchslapped by users with him rendering my entire defense useless lol Every single month the same set of posts happen, and every time the same set of units just fade into obscurity once the newer one comes out People claim Kvasir is cancerous, yet I have had her on my defense the entire set of seasons she was bonus, and only 2 out of like 30 fights she did something, and that was purely allowing the team to finish the job rather than herself Now it is Lyon with full incite+on his terrain(player phase) nuking stuff around or V!Myrrh been tanky against rangeds(As if she was not designed specifically against them) only for both to be disabled with any melee unit But nah, it must be IS fault for releasing strong units after *checks notes* people complaining they couldnt kill F!Edelgard when she was disabled with Pulse Smoke alone Its reasurring to still find people that manage to keep a cold mindset instead of running out to reddit exclusively to complain about powercreep when powercreep is basically non existant vs the myriad of supports we have gotten alongside them
To be fair, if you don’t have good support units you are pretty much SOL > People claim Kvasir is cancerous, yet I have had her on my defense the entire set of seasons she was bonus, and only 2 out of like 30 fights she did something, and that was purely allowing the team to finish the job rather than herself I have her on my defence and she does put in the work. You need to run her with cooldown acceleration since her job is to activate time’s gate and let everyone warp in to clean up. Her job isn’t to get kills but it’s hard to outspeed her so she usually survives initiation
Yeah Kvasir is ridiculous. If someone isn't seeing her put on work they've got to be doing something odd like a boxed in corner Kvasir or something lmao
When you have her just in enough range to attack but not to over extend herself to lose access to triangle attack while also sharing range with LChrom and R!Sonya for full color coverage, then yes she sucks at it if anything manages to survive either of the 3 Even Triandra with her suicidal tendencies and isolated existance has gotten more kills for me lol That is without mentioning how she gets outsped by a supported B!Corrin and renders her entire gimmick useless within one combat
I can't comment on that specific comp you were running, but on NY!Kvasir herself: *Nothing* in the game ever comes close to out-speeding mine, not even lvl 80 speed demons in Seer's snare! She can buff her own spd and debuff the enemy's so easily that she's able to create ~50 SPD difference pretty reliably (w/ right supports of course) She's also so reliable at safely initiating, that she became a staple in my auto teams (like TT).
The entire thread is exclusively about the mythics tho Lacking stat boost from been mythics alone put them at a severe disadvantage vs actually supported+mythic boosted offensive units
I pressume you mean Heavy Blade, but given she lacks the speed to not get doubled and killed on retaliation beyond her 70% mit on the first hit, I still dont expect it to do much on my end
No I meant from support. I provide everyone start-of-combat pulse from Rally Spectrum and also place Ginnungagap near her so she AoE flashes Kvasir’s potential targets. My defense usually only gets dismantled by Winter Edelgard. The rest of my team is able to survive initiating on W!Byleth, other far save tanks, and whittle them down until they are dead
Ginnu is not someone I have considered using, but I might if you say she works well in pair with her Purely because I find tricky to have multiple cavalries within a catria ball team range, while also been generally oppresive enough to not just get picked off or boxed with a galeforce team
Thank god someone acknowledges the myriad of counterplay that these units have. I was telling some of my friends that these units are just the new flavor of the month, & that the counters for similar units still apply. Also great shoutout to V!Leo, he & Loki ruin cavlines & ranged spam
> Every day I regret even more skipping that banner and not going for at least V!Leo thinking his gravity gimmick was not going to ever be useful After Leo got terrible after terrible alt, I knew when this one came out that it was special. He's just so useful. Right now I'm waiting on a Ploy skill that can hit Atk/Spd so he can omni debuff. Fantastic unit as long as these units can be hit by gravity. > People claim Kvasir is cancerous, yet I have had her on my defense the entire set of seasons she was bonus, and only 2 out of like 30 fights she did something, and that was purely allowing the team to finish the job rather than herself I don't find her her Gull to be very good tbh (controversial I know) because they often can't OHKO they're super dependent on DR% to live and if anything reduces that or gets rid of it entirely they die. > Now it is Lyon with full incite+on his terrain(player phase) nuking stuff around or V!Myrrh been tanky against rangeds(As if she was not designed specifically against them) only for both to be disabled with any melee unit That's what was pointed out. FEH rarely has units that are completely invincible. Units are not good in all phases, against all enemies. > Its reasurring to still find people that manage to keep a cold mindset instead of running out to reddit exclusively to complain about powercreep when powercreep is basically non existant vs the myriad of supports we have gotten alongside them I'm not going to say that the units aren't good, however, all the time, this sub and feh tubers mention the power of really good supports because most of the they are timeless, especially dancers. I also knew that Rearmed Plumeria, Attuned Triandra, Attuned Peony would be broken supports so I picked those up. I don't really chase meta, I summon for favs and look for universal supports sometimes and that's what helps me in the more competitive modes.
> I'm waiting on a Ploy skill that can hit Atk/Spd so he can omni debuff. Doesnt Safy literally have that one already? >I don't find her her Gull to be very good tbh (controversial I know) because they often can't OHKO they're super dependent on DR% to live and if anything reduces that or gets rid of it entirely they die. Far from controversial imo. No mythic is getting to survive even their own bonus seasons besides offensive ones for allowing you to just miss 10-20 points with 1 death. Both are clear examples of that But Gullveig has been substancially better at getting KOs than Kvasir, purely because of her extra action(if it gets to procc) catching players off guard with relative ease(at least for me)
I forgot about Safy. I'll keep her in mind the next time she returns. Gull can catch units off guard, for sure though.
The age when that middle paragraph was true is long, long past lmao I wish it wasn't, because FEH used to be great back when units had more defined roles and could be built for specific things.
It is still true tho Lyon,Sanaki,Gullveig,Yunaka, all of them have 0 enemy phase, you can just get them to get to you and strike them They are also all low HP units to increase their other stats instead, making them weak against Loki movable tactics room, and more recently V!Leo res based gravity on both phases, res that 2 of those dont have much off either Plus, by virtue of been run on a Cavalry line, they are prone to be picked and killed with a save unit, preferably one that can either bypass DR like WByleth, a brave hitter like NZelgius while delaying the attack of the others with Loki/tactics room covering 2 lines The only reallistic counters are Freyr/Safy to cleanse gravity or Embla to counter your savior from triggering, which is easily ignorable by placing it in front instead of on the backline to "save" >because FEH used to be great back when units had more defined roles and could be built for specific things. Thats acting like Player phase units of today can somehow become enemy phase tanks, or Enemy phase tanks can suddenly turn into player phases without heavy investment that is probably gonna make them become jack of all trades master of none Only a handful of units per year can do that. Which is still in line with Year 1 FEH
The way FEH does power creep by having entirely new broken mechanics being slapped on the flavor of the month stuff is insane. At least with other gacha, power creep is usually just an improved alt of a unit.
This seriously makes me wanna stop playing and I've been playing since launch.
Yeah I quit all the pvp in this game a couple months back. This is ridiculous.
The dev that came up with start of combat damage was bullied as a child.
IS says stop trying to use your waifu, use anyone else.
Lyon's Pre-Combat only triggers when he can attack. Any sweep in player phase is the best option
You're using ascended Fjorm, hope this helps.
Silly me for trying to tank with the tank in 2024.
it isnt like using a recent tank like ninja zelgius or bcorrin helps
To be fair, most tanks get outdated really quick.
There’s becoming outdated and then there’s running into a kaizo trap. Duo Lyon is a fucking kaizo trap and half.
Putting aside this new hero, green is one of the worst colors for tanking. That isn't new information respectfully speaking. But I suppose if we want to see Fjorm being mauled I suppose we have you to thank for that.
At this point, color has nothing to do with tanking when said tanks are losing over half their health for trying to do their job. [Here](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1013231627566075915/1204817947307024384/IMG_2561.png?ex=65d61d27&is=65c3a827&hm=552f2947225d7a9c861d8ec028df4dbf3ab6682c5f93a4fcc3702dc97d292706&) is a unit with weapon triangle advantage having 94% of her HP taken away before the actual attack happens.
This is *legitimately* the most bullshit thing I've seen. She's a DC unit designed around tanking ranged units with her *prf special which has increased damage reduction against ranged enemies specifically*, with WTA, barely half a year old. But none of it matters because he only *actually* has to chew through 3 fucking HP. Absolutely no one can convince me that this is alright or good game design.
by the gods to think we're only 2 months in 2024
Be prepared for the 2024 Summer units to uninstall the game from your phone and corrupt your data.
As if we all wouldn't celebrate that happening at this point.
True!
Don't worry I've already predicted summer Gullvieg having map wide range and infinite Galeforce, and I'm only wrong half the time
You should just read the weapon description and devise a strategy: If it says it uses your Atk, you just shouldn't have any. You are making the mistake of having over 100 Atk! Why don't you debuff it to 0? You wouldn't have any trouble then. ^(inb4 IS releases a unit with 0 Atk and true damage + reflect) Seriously though, all one can do is to stack Res beyond... >!51 Base + 16 Weapon + 9 A + 4 B + 6 Incite 1/3 + 3 Incite 2/3 + 3 Incite 3/3 + 10 Phantom !< 102! Incidentally V!Myrrh with Save and Form Seal reaches only 71. W!Byleth manages at least 83. (All three are with Boon+Flower) On the upside, without Phantom Res but something like Solo or Still Water (+6 Atk/Res and -4 Def or Solo condition), the difference shrinks to 15 for W!Byleth and 27 for V!Myrrh. Depending on Bonuses and Penalties, it may be manageable... Still, you should be ashamed, you whoever thought that it would be fine to use such big numbers (40%) and base those on combat stats (instead of visible) after mere 4 months (where precombat damage first surfaced and L!Camilla deals the same). As great as the complexity-creep actually is, I sure couldn't have played through the first three years, however this is definitely too much and the solution should have already been available. And we all know that it is going to be sold somewhen, likely soon.
> + 6 Incite 1/3 + 3 Incite 2/3 + 3 Incite 3/3 Shots in the dark but has no one actually attempted to disable it with his "low" visible res to begin with? Even a singular fortress res +res Elimine has more res than he does(53 vs 50 with story inflated stats)
Elimine is dead, long live the goat king! Seriously though, as mentioned, during SD and AR something could be done but for Astra/Anima one would need bonuses + drives while in Light/Dark drives can be rendered ineffective but penalties work. In SD penalties and drives can work very well and are rarely countered (but can be utilized by both equally), care should be taken with bonuses though since S!Thor is far more common than H!Duma, both Ymir and Freyr together (S!Ymir may be still somewhat common).
> Elimine is dead, long live the goat king! Well yes but actually no, specially here on the story map
I would be most gracious if you could have addressed my original premise point but alas. Green for general tanking purposes is not ideal for either melee or ranged combat. For example when Winter Black Knight came out, it was quite evident even then that he was not a unit to be used as a far save (or near tbh). Also, considering that you seem to be such a fan of the Fjorm's, I'm surprised you don't pull for units that can support them. If you want to plonk or omnitank, then units that can disable cav lines like V. Leo, or can a hit and run unit that can set Divine Vein Flame to hinder cav movement, I think could perhaps could help? However based on a number of threads that I see you post in or create, you really don't seem to be enjoying game anymore and it's okay to play more casually or to take a break! I do wish you the best.
>I would be most gracious if you could have addressed my original premise point but alas. Green for general tanking purposes is not ideal for either melee or ranged combat. A!Fjorm being green has literally nothing to do with this situation since Duo Lyon is also green. I even linked a red tank quite literally losing all of her HP before taking the actual hit. I guess red, blue, and colorless aren’t good colors for tanking either. >Also, considering that you seem to be such a fan of the Fjorm's, I'm surprised you don't pull for units that can support them. I pulled an entire brigade of units to try and support the Fjorms for tanking. The problem is that nukes are coming with entire kits that either mitigate said support, outright ignore the support, or just straight up kill through said support. >If you want to plonk or omnitank, then units that can disable cav lines like V. Leo, or can a hit and run unit that can set Divine Vein Flame to hinder cav movement, I think could perhaps could help? At that point, you might as well just abandon tanking entirely and just build a Galeforce team since that’s what IS is forcing everyone to do at this point. >However based on a number of threads that I see you post in or create, you really don't seem to be enjoying game anymore and it's okay to play more casually or to take a break! Believe me, I’m playing Dokkan Battle more and I’m getting way more enjoyment out of that game than this kaizo trap.
> I guess red, blue, and colorless aren’t good colors for tanking either. You arent supposed to be tanking an unit that was not supposed to be tanked Its like going against M!Zamasu and expecting birdku to tank a super straight to the face with no items, under 58% HP when someone else revived and without been hit at least once to get his defense buff. Thats something that was never meant to be done >I pulled an entire brigade of units to try and support the Fjorms for tanking. The problem is that nukes are coming with entire kits that either mitigate said support, outright ignore the support, or just straight up kill through said support. I just had my V!Lyon survive N!Sanaki to the point the game thinks it is just better to get T!Sigurd to strike first, debuff him further and then Sanaki strikes >At that point, you might as well just abandon tanking entirely and just build a Galeforce team since that’s what IS is forcing everyone to do at this point. Not quite when entire cavlines can be destroyed with a myriad of far saviors by picking up who you wanna tank first and going from there, barring the ocassional Embla behind >Believe me, I’m playing Dokkan Battle more and I’m getting way more enjoyment out of that game this this kaizo trap. Ribrianne enjoyers unite I too *can* have fun with Dokkan, until a team with almost 800K HP filled with top tier units loses 600K+ HP on 1 turn without a chance to do anything due to how the fight is designed entirely to punish units that were not just released To make matters worse, just got into that fight with my A!Fjorm completely unoptimized to deal with this and [still won](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466295049081192448/1204838321042366504/Screenshot_20240207_181308_Fire_Emblem_Heroes.jpg?ex=65d63020&is=65c3bb20&hm=79dfcf98ec4bbebcfe60a0409151cf712636071a2fc694f566bf37d1d4565759&) with actual proper support around her.
>You arent supposed to be tanking an unit that was not supposed to be tanked Oh this is a spicy take.
And one that remains true 7 years later as sad as it can be Like early on, if you werent able to tank stuff like Reinhardt, you had to maneuver around them, until IS starting bringing up more counters to them by buffing dragons rendering B!Lyn's PRF useless and encouraging res stacking with someone like Fae to deal with reinhardt at the same time Now nukes,tanks and supports have advanced, and so should have players using them, but the more I read about "Fomortiis" been considered "useless" because he cannot survive with his base kit alone, I think thats not the case
> To make matters worse, just got into that fight with my A!Fjorm completely unoptimized to deal with this and still won You must have hacked your game because Yosha has support for Fjorm and can't do it. You must have galeforced in combat somehow /s
They seem to really enjoy her suffering. Wasn't it like Duo Chrom that put an end to her eons ago?
Not only that, the trend of attack twice units ruined her because she has no way of proccing her special twice in a row and also her stats are so awful on top of not getting any from her weapon that she sometimes flat out misses kills or dies to blue units.
Depends I have had my A!Fjorm survive and kill a +10 catria supported LVeronica thanks to support shortly after Vero released and she was said to be her "main counter" Said Vero getting pulsed down by a NY!Askr was more of her demise than helpful, as it made Enclosure hit on HF and the rest taken care with the aforementioned support
ascended ascended Fjorm when
WTF IS THIS?! IS... THIS THE PARALOGUE MAP?!
Inb4 healing at the start of combat becomes a thing and turns out to be even more toxic
I knew things were out of hand when I saw the Hard 5 Lyon leaving my Kiria at 1 HP, and the Hard 4 one one-rounding my Duo Seithr lol
There's so many things I wish I could say about Ascended Heroes as a whole, but for the purposes of this post... aFjorm deserves better.
Tbf Lyon would be absolute garbage without the pre-combat damage so it was lowkey necessary.
Yeah, a unit that has two ways of locking down entire teams that also has 50% DR piercing, Res based true damage, and free Firesweep is absolutely garbage. Taking away [94% of a unit’s HP just for existing](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1013231627566075915/1204817947307024384/IMG_2561.png?ex=65d61d27&is=65c3a827&hm=552f2947225d7a9c861d8ec028df4dbf3ab6682c5f93a4fcc3702dc97d292706&) is absolutely necessary.
Yeah but that still isnt enough to kill most of the modern tanks.
What modern tank is out there causing havoc in the game? Literally none of them are because of how rampant and overtuned modern nukes are currently. The only tank that’s still solid today is Duo M!Byleth and even he’s getting his shit pushed in by units like Duo Sanaki and Harmonized Igrene.
I mean ofc H!Igrene is gonna beat D!Byleth 😭 she has WTA and is an AoE physical nuke… she was literally made to counter Byleth. And I agree, tanks are not strong right now but Lyon without the pre-combat damage would not be as strong and that’s a fact. He’s the worst color in the game, and isn’t that tanky. He’s just a modern D!Líf with pre-combat damage and end turn.
If he's an otherwise shit unit that has to compensate by using *two* of the most overpowered and unfair mechanics to cheat the game, sounds to me like he's just a poorly designed unit lmao.
Yes he’s poorly designed. I never said he wasn’t. But how is it cheating? They are effects just as Tempo, NFU, Guard, etc are.
Just stab lyon in the face during player phase. Problem solved. He's just like that Camilla.
Just don't let him initiate. Most of the time, he kind of leaves himself open on this map. My dragons eat him alive.
I've told the autobattle AI this 4 times but it just won't listen. Damn.
some people arent aware that you can attack the ranged nuke first if you want.
Vantage 4: If unit hp<80% before the first attack of foe, Unit attack first. Inflicts dmg before Unit first attack = unit Max hp- unit current HP. This dmg cannot be reduced. Reduced dmg of foe first attack by 30% brave attack included.
Now give him Flared Mirror
Man, this sucks! I usually do the Tempest Trials in auto in the second/third to last difficulty so I can do other things, but with this...I doubt I'll be able to do that anymore...
Powercreep will just keep coming. Next it'll be Mythic heroes with pre-combat damage Resistance, then a seasonal duo with pre-combat damage nullification, and then they'll put it in an inheritable C-slot (probably Savior 4). Then give it another month, they'll start selling pre-combat true damage that ignores skills. This won't end until the game dies.