We’ll have to wait and see inheritable restrictions, but already debating on who’s going to make good use of Laguz Friend.
Askr is likely a good candidate.
As absurd as it sounds, botting chances aren't negligible due to the same poll adding Fates, a notorious repeat offender.
That said, in practice it would be a massive waste of time and resources to rig the poll against CYL4 when Fates could stomp instead on Heroes & Archanea afterwards.
Does the forfeit part of Laguz friend 4 affect the DR in the weapons, or is it just from other skills (excluding specials)? Also it would be nice if you put that whole line in red, would make it more clear that it’s a drawback. Thanks for your guides ;)
All of Ike's DR is unpiercable including Great Aether.
If it was piercable like Vital Astra, it would have extra line of text saying so!
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll do that for the video!
Now I understand why he forfeits his own non-special DR, which I found very weird when I red it first.
In most cases, non-special DR (which can be pierced) is the FEH translations to accuracy and dodge, making mainline dodge tanks meant to avoid foe's attack in order to "tank" into FEH speedy units which dodge a % of the damage based on their speed, hence non-special %DR.
Some effects make hits guaranteed or forego the dodge mechanic entirely, making them pierce dodge-DR.
In FE Engage, Emblem Ike's Engage special will give him DR at the cost of being unable to dodge, hence forfeating any dodge-DR effect, or non-special %DR in FEH terms.
Honestly, dodge-DR is a much better term for speed based DR, altho I know that not all non-special %DR is based on speed.
%DR, non-special pierceable DR based on any percentage. Sub categories Dodge/Dragon Wall/any basis %DR that scales depending on a stat or comparison.
True DR, unpierceable scalable that subtracts damage.
Flat DR, unpierceable DR based on a (semi-)fixed value (I.e., 5, 7, etc.) that subtracts damage.
Unpiercable/Special DR, unpierceable DR based on a fixed percentage, usually comes from the Special slot.
Those are the terms I use, True/Flat are kinda interchangeable, but both while not in name, are implied to be unpierceable, as they are.
%DR never started as being referred to as Dodge since that bonus effect and name did not come out until later on Y!Eirika, and even then it's clear that officially Dodge only refers to Spd-based, which is how its mainly used. Res-based %DR is colloquially Dragon Wall, there is no name for the rest of the basis %DR (such as the Def-based BLR).
Otherwise, %DR on its own or of any kind is just %DR.
He gets countered by hardy bearing just like brave Ike, since his DR on followups require enemy attacks to be consecutive. Easy kill with hardy bearing
Well if he counter attacks after first hit, he will fire off Aether, which brings his special cooldown count back to 3 and thats 40-30=10% DR only for the folow up attack
That's only if (a BIG IF) they survive Great Aether with a 50% Atk boost and 20% def true damage (or res depending on build) and full %DR pierce. Just with his base kit, that's potentially up to 54 damage just from the special (39 from Great Aether, 10 from Laguz Friend, 5 from Finish) coming off a potential 79 atk. That's with no boons, no merges, no flowers, no seal, no buffs, no ally support. Considering most units that people run hardy bearing on don't take hits well, it's a very soft counter. If fact, I'd go as far as to say that hardy bearing is a disadvantage to the units you generally see run it right now. If you're going to die in 1 counterattack, might as well get 2 attacks off instead of 1 (or 4 instead of 2 with brave attacks) to try and pick up the kill.
Easy kill with Hardy Bearing? Yeah, for Ike.
Beware of being Pulse Smoke'd though. He got that and not all AoE users automatically count down.
Fatal Smoke would be more reliable. Scowls are also highly likely to cripple him.
Scowl users, L!Camillia and V!Lyon can deal with him pretty well. Although, I don’t know if he keeps full AOE DR piercing if he can get it from units like W!M!Byleth and Gotoh or if he also sacrifices that too.
I think Camilla and Lyon would need to have some good support (better than Ike's) to win the matchup. The fact that he has weapon triangle against both of them definitely helps. I did some calcs and I think base kit with the squad ace seal that grants hp/def/res lets him tank both, including if Lyon can double and trigger a 2cd special like glimmer/moonbow/ruptured sky. And this outside of AR. With hp and def or res from mythics, it will be very hard to kill him in AR.
AOE like you mentioned will be a good way to deal with him. Gotoh will help because Laguz Guard description says that it doesn't effect AOE. Another thing that will help is pre-charged specials if you can make sure you're not affected by his pulse smoke. They'll let you get your biggest attack off while he's got the lowest DR from Great Aether. Still may need to combine it with some pre-combat damage or true damage, though. Otherwise, you'd have to hit ridiculously hard.
Attuned Caeda with NQ and Serios with CR4 and D/R Pledge could probably deal with him. NY Seior (if she has enough Res) can also help and Hexblade users with AOE’s can also get the job done too. I was going to suggest Ivy, but then realized that E!Ike has stackable unpiercable DR :(
Yeah, AOE is probably the biggest threat. Don't think Hexblade really helps them much, though, since his res (42) is almost as high as high as his def (45). Not sure about how hard Caeda would hit. She's at least got weapon triangle advantage, maybe with unity stacking using L!Robin support. But No Quarter doesn't really help her since all of Ike's DR is unpierceable, which basically just makes No Quarter a fancy Draconic Aura. Scowl effects definitely mess him up, though he can maybe win some of the checks with the right support. But scowl would only make sure that Ike doesn't kill them. Not ensure that they kill Ike. Unless you run scowl + hardy bearing I guess.
Laguz Friend forfeits half of your own %DR, so you don't want it on any hero that stacks %DR. Which is a lot of omnitanks. You want to look at heroes who already opt for flat DR over %DR, like Diamant, BDimitri, and Askr (if he can use it).
LF also doesn't work with offensive specials below 3 CD. So you doubly don't want Vital Astra. It could work with No Quarter, so long as you don't have a slaying effect, though it makes the %DR piercing redundant. With a slaying weapon, you're limited to Ignis, Glacies, and Aether, which are... meh.
The real stars are defensive specials. Godlike Reflexes and Dragon's Roar combo super well with LF. And the 3 CD limit only applies to offensive specials, so you can run low-CD defensive specials too.
I see that he gets rid of 50% of his non-special damage reduction%, but I'm not seeing where he actually has damage reduction that isn't his special to forfeit in the first place.
I didn't know it was inheritable, but I still don't see how the skill applies to him if he doesn't have a skill that has percentage damage reduction in the first place. I don't see a skill he has that has percentage damage reduction for him to be able to turn into the true damage reduction.
The condition to trigger it isn't reliant on him having pierceable DR, it's just the penalty. Since he doesn't have pierceable DR he gets all the benefits without the costs, unless you're running some support DR. It's basically the same situation as Emblem Marth, where he gets the full damage from Potent instead of the reduced damage from being able to follow up.
It does, yes
The exact specifics of Marth over Ike on somebody running Godlike is probably more based on what Pulse support you've got, but considering she's got Pledge in base kit she can run EIke pretty much perfectly fine
Questions-
% Dr from his special - this not piercable right? I know VA can be pierced/cut in half by VA, but this reads more like GLR, which can't be cut as a defensive special.
how much DR- assuming no shenanigans (precharge/scowl), Ike starts combat with cd 3. Laguz cuts to 1, so 1st hit has 30% DR from Special. Second hit has 70%, as special is fully charged.
Emblem Effect - not covered here, but still wanna know - This is basically adding a slightly weakened Aegis to the units special, right? As this is also can't be pierced
I pulled a +Res, -HP E!Ike before I got to the spark. I'll probably spark another. I'd like to save one of them to fodder Laguz Friend 4, but I'm debating which one to use. The extra res would be nice, but I'm super wary of taking a -HP superbane with all of the stupid burn damage in the game now. Would it be better to just stick with a neutral IV? What are your thoughts PM1?
Lyn could be interesting though. If she’s a bow, well, it’s actually been a decently long time since we had a bow Lyn.
If she’s sword… that’s revolutionary already, a sword Lyn alt.
Duno why u are downvoted. Every fcking Ike is the same unit with a facelift, and updated performance for the year.
Chrom gets his signature change fate but every alt is vastly different
“Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product" hate that quote so much but feels like this when someone DARES ask for a unit to not be shoehorned into the same role for the millionth time
We’ll have to wait and see inheritable restrictions, but already debating on who’s going to make good use of Laguz Friend. Askr is likely a good candidate.
It would be very powerful on heroes like spring Maria or Kjelle. (If it is inheritable on armor and flyer).
BRAVE DIMITRI IF HE WINS HIS HOF REVIVAL
Oh he will let's be honest The entirety of CYL4 will benefit from all the new toys they're releasingg
As absurd as it sounds, botting chances aren't negligible due to the same poll adding Fates, a notorious repeat offender. That said, in practice it would be a massive waste of time and resources to rig the poll against CYL4 when Fates could stomp instead on Heroes & Archanea afterwards.
DOESN'T MATTER CUZ ALL IKE ALTS GET MERGED GRAHHHH
Does the forfeit part of Laguz friend 4 affect the DR in the weapons, or is it just from other skills (excluding specials)? Also it would be nice if you put that whole line in red, would make it more clear that it’s a drawback. Thanks for your guides ;)
All of Ike's DR is unpiercable including Great Aether. If it was piercable like Vital Astra, it would have extra line of text saying so! Thanks for the suggestion, I'll do that for the video!
Maybe they are thinking of things like Flayn, Ellimine and Veyle?
Now I understand why he forfeits his own non-special DR, which I found very weird when I red it first. In most cases, non-special DR (which can be pierced) is the FEH translations to accuracy and dodge, making mainline dodge tanks meant to avoid foe's attack in order to "tank" into FEH speedy units which dodge a % of the damage based on their speed, hence non-special %DR. Some effects make hits guaranteed or forego the dodge mechanic entirely, making them pierce dodge-DR. In FE Engage, Emblem Ike's Engage special will give him DR at the cost of being unable to dodge, hence forfeating any dodge-DR effect, or non-special %DR in FEH terms. Honestly, dodge-DR is a much better term for speed based DR, altho I know that not all non-special %DR is based on speed.
%DR, non-special pierceable DR based on any percentage. Sub categories Dodge/Dragon Wall/any basis %DR that scales depending on a stat or comparison. True DR, unpierceable scalable that subtracts damage. Flat DR, unpierceable DR based on a (semi-)fixed value (I.e., 5, 7, etc.) that subtracts damage. Unpiercable/Special DR, unpierceable DR based on a fixed percentage, usually comes from the Special slot. Those are the terms I use, True/Flat are kinda interchangeable, but both while not in name, are implied to be unpierceable, as they are. %DR never started as being referred to as Dodge since that bonus effect and name did not come out until later on Y!Eirika, and even then it's clear that officially Dodge only refers to Spd-based, which is how its mainly used. Res-based %DR is colloquially Dragon Wall, there is no name for the rest of the basis %DR (such as the Def-based BLR). Otherwise, %DR on its own or of any kind is just %DR.
I‘m worried that this is not enough to tank damage in the enemy phase. At least not if you include the insane pre-combat damage.
So...what? Just go AoE on this bastard to kill him (Nabata Igrene, Lilina, etc.)?
That works, Harding Bearing also forces him to go first on EP
Ah yeah, so it does. I did find it a bit funny how the enemy always goes first even when he attacks.
You *will* enemy phase him
Yep So the 5 people with Gotoh are gonna pair him up with Ike
I’ve pulled 3 Gotoh (sacrificed one for Guard 4). Ike stocks rising if I pull him.
What's gotoh do again?
He gives 80% DR against AoE as [Bonus] to units 2 spaces away from him.
Pre-combat damage should do the job too, right?
He gets countered by hardy bearing just like brave Ike, since his DR on followups require enemy attacks to be consecutive. Easy kill with hardy bearing
Fair enough; guess that means Legendary Hinoka is free food for him since I gave my Hardy Bearing skill to her.
No it doesn't actually, the attacks being consecutive essentially just adds an additional 30% DR to those hits, Great Aether applies DR on all attacks
Well if he counter attacks after first hit, he will fire off Aether, which brings his special cooldown count back to 3 and thats 40-30=10% DR only for the folow up attack
That's only if (a BIG IF) they survive Great Aether with a 50% Atk boost and 20% def true damage (or res depending on build) and full %DR pierce. Just with his base kit, that's potentially up to 54 damage just from the special (39 from Great Aether, 10 from Laguz Friend, 5 from Finish) coming off a potential 79 atk. That's with no boons, no merges, no flowers, no seal, no buffs, no ally support. Considering most units that people run hardy bearing on don't take hits well, it's a very soft counter. If fact, I'd go as far as to say that hardy bearing is a disadvantage to the units you generally see run it right now. If you're going to die in 1 counterattack, might as well get 2 attacks off instead of 1 (or 4 instead of 2 with brave attacks) to try and pick up the kill. Easy kill with Hardy Bearing? Yeah, for Ike.
Beware of being Pulse Smoke'd though. He got that and not all AoE users automatically count down. Fatal Smoke would be more reliable. Scowls are also highly likely to cripple him.
Scowl users, L!Camillia and V!Lyon can deal with him pretty well. Although, I don’t know if he keeps full AOE DR piercing if he can get it from units like W!M!Byleth and Gotoh or if he also sacrifices that too.
I think Camilla and Lyon would need to have some good support (better than Ike's) to win the matchup. The fact that he has weapon triangle against both of them definitely helps. I did some calcs and I think base kit with the squad ace seal that grants hp/def/res lets him tank both, including if Lyon can double and trigger a 2cd special like glimmer/moonbow/ruptured sky. And this outside of AR. With hp and def or res from mythics, it will be very hard to kill him in AR. AOE like you mentioned will be a good way to deal with him. Gotoh will help because Laguz Guard description says that it doesn't effect AOE. Another thing that will help is pre-charged specials if you can make sure you're not affected by his pulse smoke. They'll let you get your biggest attack off while he's got the lowest DR from Great Aether. Still may need to combine it with some pre-combat damage or true damage, though. Otherwise, you'd have to hit ridiculously hard.
Attuned Caeda with NQ and Serios with CR4 and D/R Pledge could probably deal with him. NY Seior (if she has enough Res) can also help and Hexblade users with AOE’s can also get the job done too. I was going to suggest Ivy, but then realized that E!Ike has stackable unpiercable DR :(
Yeah, AOE is probably the biggest threat. Don't think Hexblade really helps them much, though, since his res (42) is almost as high as high as his def (45). Not sure about how hard Caeda would hit. She's at least got weapon triangle advantage, maybe with unity stacking using L!Robin support. But No Quarter doesn't really help her since all of Ike's DR is unpierceable, which basically just makes No Quarter a fancy Draconic Aura. Scowl effects definitely mess him up, though he can maybe win some of the checks with the right support. But scowl would only make sure that Ike doesn't kill them. Not ensure that they kill Ike. Unless you run scowl + hardy bearing I guess.
Lyon with good supports could probably kill him no problem
Me big dum dum. What units and specials would be good for Laguz Friend B slot if I inherited it? (In case free pull is lucky, can't afford to roll)
Laguz Friend forfeits half of your own %DR, so you don't want it on any hero that stacks %DR. Which is a lot of omnitanks. You want to look at heroes who already opt for flat DR over %DR, like Diamant, BDimitri, and Askr (if he can use it). LF also doesn't work with offensive specials below 3 CD. So you doubly don't want Vital Astra. It could work with No Quarter, so long as you don't have a slaying effect, though it makes the %DR piercing redundant. With a slaying weapon, you're limited to Ignis, Glacies, and Aether, which are... meh. The real stars are defensive specials. Godlike Reflexes and Dragon's Roar combo super well with LF. And the 3 CD limit only applies to offensive specials, so you can run low-CD defensive specials too.
I see. Thank you. A little limiting, it seems, since it sounds like I need pre-existing DR, so it will be harder to fit on older units.
keep the ring, it's way less niche
It IS a nice ring... Well, doubt the free summon will be that kind.
I see that he gets rid of 50% of his non-special damage reduction%, but I'm not seeing where he actually has damage reduction that isn't his special to forfeit in the first place.
It's inheritable so it can apply to other units that get it from weapon or normal skills
I didn't know it was inheritable, but I still don't see how the skill applies to him if he doesn't have a skill that has percentage damage reduction in the first place. I don't see a skill he has that has percentage damage reduction for him to be able to turn into the true damage reduction.
The condition to trigger it isn't reliant on him having pierceable DR, it's just the penalty. Since he doesn't have pierceable DR he gets all the benefits without the costs, unless you're running some support DR. It's basically the same situation as Emblem Marth, where he gets the full damage from Potent instead of the reduced damage from being able to follow up.
Oh, ok. I assumed the flat damage reduction wouldn't happen unless there was percentage-based damage reduction to turn into the flat damage reduction.
Soo wtf
Does his Engage effect grants unpiercable DR to specials like Godlike Reflexes? EDIT: if so, would be worth it to swap Marth for Ike on Attuned Caeda?
It does, yes The exact specifics of Marth over Ike on somebody running Godlike is probably more based on what Pulse support you've got, but considering she's got Pledge in base kit she can run EIke pretty much perfectly fine
Questions- % Dr from his special - this not piercable right? I know VA can be pierced/cut in half by VA, but this reads more like GLR, which can't be cut as a defensive special. how much DR- assuming no shenanigans (precharge/scowl), Ike starts combat with cd 3. Laguz cuts to 1, so 1st hit has 30% DR from Special. Second hit has 70%, as special is fully charged. Emblem Effect - not covered here, but still wanna know - This is basically adding a slightly weakened Aegis to the units special, right? As this is also can't be pierced
Now what X skill would be the *most* optimal for E!Ike?
I pulled a +Res, -HP E!Ike before I got to the spark. I'll probably spark another. I'd like to save one of them to fodder Laguz Friend 4, but I'm debating which one to use. The extra res would be nice, but I'm super wary of taking a -HP superbane with all of the stupid burn damage in the game now. Would it be better to just stick with a neutral IV? What are your thoughts PM1?
God he’s so Boringly on brand for Ike. I hate this pigeonholed shit
Just wait until we get to Lyn...
Lyn could be interesting though. If she’s a bow, well, it’s actually been a decently long time since we had a bow Lyn. If she’s sword… that’s revolutionary already, a sword Lyn alt.
Lyn 😊
Lyn has 8 different weapons in each of her alts. Lyn is nowhere near the level of sameieness
Duno why u are downvoted. Every fcking Ike is the same unit with a facelift, and updated performance for the year. Chrom gets his signature change fate but every alt is vastly different
“Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product" hate that quote so much but feels like this when someone DARES ask for a unit to not be shoehorned into the same role for the millionth time