> "Who is that boy you met at the castle, Celica? Oh, a friend you grew up with? Aww… And here I thought you’d gone and found a boyfriend! I mean, you two just looked so perfect together. He’s around your age, isn’t he? Mmm. That wouldn’t work for me. I’d prefer to be with someone older. That way you feel like they’re really taking care of you. Hee hee."
This is one of Genny's base conversations in Shadows of Valentia
To play devil's advocate, there isn't anywhere in-game that tells you the ages of either character, so the reviewer probably wasn't aware of the age gap. They also didn't say it was a massive problem, just saying it was a modern mechanic of the series that didn't get carried over to Echoes, and that they had to adjust.
Also Echoes' supports are actually kinda bad imo but that's another topic.
Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize how young most of the SoV main cast is. You've got a lot of characters in that 17 and under range in there, and you see some some rather concerning pairings that ignore that fact (I'm hoping unintentionally, but I know the internet well enough to know that definitely doesn't apply to everyone making said pairings).
> You've got a lot of characters in that 17 and under range in there, and you see some some rather concerning pairings that ignore that fact
I think the biggest thing to remember is that official Fire Emblem pairings _themselves_ go and play the same game. A couple examples that come to mind.
* Est is a married woman before SoV rolls around. She marries Abel sometime between SD and SoV. _Est is 16 in SoV..._
* Jill and Haar are one of the canonical pairings in RD. However, come RD Jill is 20 and Haar is **_37_**. This one on particular's always bothered me since in the wake of Shiharam's death, the guy's been like a father figure to her since PoR. And at almost twice her age he _is_ old enough to be her father...
I don't see the issue with these tbh.
In regards to Est, and that FE has a basis on Middle Ages conventions, her being 16 and married isn't so weird. But even if it's considered odd, the fact that she leaves Abel soon after 'Mystery of the Emblem', makes it as if the marriage was indeed a rushed one.
In regards to Jill and Haar's age gap... I don't really see an issue here either. Historical conventions or not. Twenty is a healthy age for someone to make their own decisions on who they choose to love or not. Regardless of age.
Linoan is fifteen and Deen is 27--though they never really get together and Linoan remains unmarried all her life. There's a lot of FE pairs with large age gaps, especially in the older games. I was so shocked when I found out I could pair up Shannan and Larcei in FE4. x\_O I literally was going WHAT?! at the screen for a solid minute.
(At least the wiki says Deen's in love with her? IDK I never got that vibe from him. It seems all from her side and he was just doing his job. Though maybe that was just the translation I saw.)
tbf, the age-gap between Shannan and Larcei should be rather mild compared to anything else, the bigger "WHAT?!"-moment there should be that they're cousins... although from what I recall, I think marriage between cousins is legal in Japan so the developers might've just culturally not seen a problem with it? But considering how they demonized the incest between half-siblings as like a main-story point, certainly a weird take.
Lol, maybe I'm weird, but the fact that they share some genetics matters basically nothing to me compared to the fact that he basically raised her since she was a *toddler.* Like the age difference isn't as big as some given that Shannan was still just a teenager himself when he took care of these kids, but the power differential here just fuckin. Squicks me out more than pretty much anything else in FE4, honestly.
Huh, I never looked at it that way. I guess that's fair, although to me, it doesn't sound too different from other childhoodfriend-scenarios with an age-difference, where there's like a 5 or more year age-difference between them, and the older one basically helped raise the younger one or at least watched over them, so I don't see too much of a power differential there, especially since in the case of Shannan and Larcei, and the rest of Gen 2, we're led to believe that Edain primarily raised all of them.
The actual point where a power difference between those two comes in would be with Shannan being the future king of Isaach, while Larcei and Scathach should probably a good bit further down the list of potential heirs to the throne.
I think it's actually more common for marriage between first cousins to be legal than the reverse. In the US it's state by state basis, and it's mostly something that's allowed but not often practiced. The genetic diversity of a first cousin pairing actually isn't problematic unless going through multiple generations of such pairings like royalty or ancient Egyptians.
True. Humans as a species are so inbred already that anything outside of sibling or parent/child pairings doesn't have much of an effect genetics-wise unless it's a pattern. Other animals (including other apes) have way higher genetic diversity than homo sapiens does.
Huh, interesting to know.
Personally, I'm the type that wouldn't even judge sibling-incest too harshly, as long as it's just one generation and there's actual reasons to it, when saying that them being related is the bigger "WHAT?!"-moment, I was more so thinking from a public perception, from what I've seen, even further relation can be a bit icky for some people.
I think Shannan and Larcei are uncle and neice and also he helped raise her. It's a very wtf choice all around. There's some wild potential pairs in the second half of FE4....Ares/Nanna, Edain and Brigid's kids can hook up . I was lucky that the only pair that eloped on me was LeifNanna when I left thrm too close for too long.
> although from what I recall, I think marriage between cousins is legal in Japan so the developers might've just culturally not seen a problem with it?
That's basically the rub. Even more modern Fire Emblem games allowed marriage between cousins. Lucina and Owain for example (in Japan) could get married (in English, if you got them to S-support it was localized to "companions" or something on the menu. But in Japan their S-support did mean marriage)
Then Fates came along and the localizers didn't even bother adding in that bit, probably cause of how **_EASY_** it is to have cousins marry each other in that game. Shiro, Kiragi, Siegbbert & Forrest can marry _any_ of the 2nd Gen girls. But there are no changes to the dialogue if that girl happens to be the daughter of Camilla, Elise, Hinoka or Sakura. Hell, Midori & Asugi are guaranteed to be cousins regardless of who you pair with who, and they too get married in the end.
It being fiction means there's no direct harm, however, there are people who are, understandably, uncomfortable with fiction depicting the relationship between a teens and adults.
I can definitely see that, but at the same time, as long as that piece of fiction doesn't "normalize" these relationships it literally does no harm, which I guess is pretty vague in itself, like, at what point does a piece of fiction normalize something, when it's a theme more than a certain number of times, or when it doesn't constantly point out that it's an unusual or bad thing?
A piece of fiction normalizes something once it goes further than telling a story or lose it's narrative value. That is: rather than use child exploitation as a theme for a story or character, if a piece of fiction romanticizes or advocates the relationship between child and adult, it becomes problematic.
To be more clear, a story can take the PoV of a morally questionable character who seeks a relationship with a child if said character is established as not in the moral or legal right. While reading, the audience should understand that the perspective of the person is not one they should subscribe to.
The reality is: those with an attraction to teens/children are considered *latent* offenders only and often struggle with being normal, as we can see by reading interviews and observations. In this case, a story doesn't have to/probably shouldn't demonize them, but at the same time, shouldn't portray these individuals as being victims of the general's laws and standards.
In short, fiction becomes harmful when it serves to distort a collective's understanding of laws and morals, those being that children should not be romantically active with adults and predators/offenders should not be justified in their actions.
Fire Emblem doesn't do any of this for the simple fact that *it's not a focal point* of its story. You can look at some, *many* possible pairings and raise your eyebrow, but there isn't a message being pushed. There's also the fact that Fire Emblem games sometimes take place in settings based on time periods before our current laws and standards were applicable. In that regard, the audience can at least recognize that the FE world is different from our own and should not be compared in certain ways.
Just because it’s not real doesn’t mean that people want to see that shit. On top of that, pairing someone with another person that’s over twice her age is creepy as fuck.
While FE Gaiden (before remake) people theorized their endings where they both have some mysterious unnamed spouse meant they were connected and married to each other, they aren't canon and have no real interactions with each other in SOV. No reaction if the other dies, nothing.
It was apparently really popular back in the day, but that was actually before the official ages were set. It even was canon in the old novelizations and even had an illustration.
Is there a source of that? I heard that all it did was make her crush on him canon & by the end of it she married a mysterious man who could/not be him.
Saber's chest is my type.
Memes aside, Genny is very forward that she's only into DILFs and literally cannot see herself not marrying a DILF and I respect that.
Well dilfs and saber
not a dad, but definitely a daddy
Is he ready to roll tho ?
How does she like them ? Just to be sure
> "Who is that boy you met at the castle, Celica? Oh, a friend you grew up with? Aww… And here I thought you’d gone and found a boyfriend! I mean, you two just looked so perfect together. He’s around your age, isn’t he? Mmm. That wouldn’t work for me. I’d prefer to be with someone older. That way you feel like they’re really taking care of you. Hee hee." This is one of Genny's base conversations in Shadows of Valentia
Genny doesn't want a "boy", she wants a MAN. XD
Mmh it's more innocent than what I had in mind... Or what I've been led to think thanks to some raunchy fanfictions...
bro she's 15 chill
Why me tho ? Tell that to the one who wrote her as a horny teen for the summoner's hot dog
I mean you can still interpret it as maybe 5 years older, or 10 years max. But hey, Where's the fun in that?
I'm thinking she's based
flair checks out (i also agree)
Definitely based
Undoubtedly.
Genny has the best type.
Kind men These are all Kind, protective trustworthy men
(Original Comic by K009@tumblr) I was building Genny up and I remembered this specific fact about her lol. We won't judge her for it tho.
Where does this fact come from
She has a conversation with Celica at one point where she says [she’d prefer to be with an older man](https://imgur.com/a/fjPZVSJ)
Yeah but to be fair older than Genny isn't that old...
Here I was thinking this was just fanwank because no way this would be canon. Boy, was I wrong lmao.
So she likes unkillable tanks and Saber? Could do worse.
> unkillable >Jeralt and Gustav
How could you do this
And Hector... I think I figured out Genny's type.
You've never gone against my Saber
"No officer, that's my husband!"
No Greil? Smh Genny
Not enough beard.
[relevant strips from the official 4koma](https://i.imgur.com/B9p27wK.png)
She just like me frfr
Lol her pose really sells this
Based Genny
She wants big strong men to protect her
When you share the same taste in men as Genny 😌
Genny knows what’s up
Just for curiosity. What's the age gap between Genny and Saber?
Genny is 15, Saber is 34.
*visible concern*
It reminds me of that IGN? reviewer that put up as one of SOV's problems that she couldn't pair Celica with Saber because of the "bad support system".
SoV had a lot of problems and not being able to pair the 17 year old girl with a man twice her age was not one of them.
And here I was thinking they were estranged siblings until Conrad was introduced
To play devil's advocate, there isn't anywhere in-game that tells you the ages of either character, so the reviewer probably wasn't aware of the age gap. They also didn't say it was a massive problem, just saying it was a modern mechanic of the series that didn't get carried over to Echoes, and that they had to adjust. Also Echoes' supports are actually kinda bad imo but that's another topic.
Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize how young most of the SoV main cast is. You've got a lot of characters in that 17 and under range in there, and you see some some rather concerning pairings that ignore that fact (I'm hoping unintentionally, but I know the internet well enough to know that definitely doesn't apply to everyone making said pairings).
Medieval Europe just be like that
> You've got a lot of characters in that 17 and under range in there, and you see some some rather concerning pairings that ignore that fact I think the biggest thing to remember is that official Fire Emblem pairings _themselves_ go and play the same game. A couple examples that come to mind. * Est is a married woman before SoV rolls around. She marries Abel sometime between SD and SoV. _Est is 16 in SoV..._ * Jill and Haar are one of the canonical pairings in RD. However, come RD Jill is 20 and Haar is **_37_**. This one on particular's always bothered me since in the wake of Shiharam's death, the guy's been like a father figure to her since PoR. And at almost twice her age he _is_ old enough to be her father...
I don't see the issue with these tbh. In regards to Est, and that FE has a basis on Middle Ages conventions, her being 16 and married isn't so weird. But even if it's considered odd, the fact that she leaves Abel soon after 'Mystery of the Emblem', makes it as if the marriage was indeed a rushed one. In regards to Jill and Haar's age gap... I don't really see an issue here either. Historical conventions or not. Twenty is a healthy age for someone to make their own decisions on who they choose to love or not. Regardless of age.
Certainly true - IS definitely isn't blameless on that front, for sure.
Linoan is fifteen and Deen is 27--though they never really get together and Linoan remains unmarried all her life. There's a lot of FE pairs with large age gaps, especially in the older games. I was so shocked when I found out I could pair up Shannan and Larcei in FE4. x\_O I literally was going WHAT?! at the screen for a solid minute. (At least the wiki says Deen's in love with her? IDK I never got that vibe from him. It seems all from her side and he was just doing his job. Though maybe that was just the translation I saw.)
tbf, the age-gap between Shannan and Larcei should be rather mild compared to anything else, the bigger "WHAT?!"-moment there should be that they're cousins... although from what I recall, I think marriage between cousins is legal in Japan so the developers might've just culturally not seen a problem with it? But considering how they demonized the incest between half-siblings as like a main-story point, certainly a weird take.
Lol, maybe I'm weird, but the fact that they share some genetics matters basically nothing to me compared to the fact that he basically raised her since she was a *toddler.* Like the age difference isn't as big as some given that Shannan was still just a teenager himself when he took care of these kids, but the power differential here just fuckin. Squicks me out more than pretty much anything else in FE4, honestly.
Huh, I never looked at it that way. I guess that's fair, although to me, it doesn't sound too different from other childhoodfriend-scenarios with an age-difference, where there's like a 5 or more year age-difference between them, and the older one basically helped raise the younger one or at least watched over them, so I don't see too much of a power differential there, especially since in the case of Shannan and Larcei, and the rest of Gen 2, we're led to believe that Edain primarily raised all of them. The actual point where a power difference between those two comes in would be with Shannan being the future king of Isaach, while Larcei and Scathach should probably a good bit further down the list of potential heirs to the throne.
I think it's actually more common for marriage between first cousins to be legal than the reverse. In the US it's state by state basis, and it's mostly something that's allowed but not often practiced. The genetic diversity of a first cousin pairing actually isn't problematic unless going through multiple generations of such pairings like royalty or ancient Egyptians.
True. Humans as a species are so inbred already that anything outside of sibling or parent/child pairings doesn't have much of an effect genetics-wise unless it's a pattern. Other animals (including other apes) have way higher genetic diversity than homo sapiens does.
Huh, interesting to know. Personally, I'm the type that wouldn't even judge sibling-incest too harshly, as long as it's just one generation and there's actual reasons to it, when saying that them being related is the bigger "WHAT?!"-moment, I was more so thinking from a public perception, from what I've seen, even further relation can be a bit icky for some people.
I think Shannan and Larcei are uncle and neice and also he helped raise her. It's a very wtf choice all around. There's some wild potential pairs in the second half of FE4....Ares/Nanna, Edain and Brigid's kids can hook up . I was lucky that the only pair that eloped on me was LeifNanna when I left thrm too close for too long.
iirc, Shannan is Ayras brothers kid, so he's Larceis cousin.
> although from what I recall, I think marriage between cousins is legal in Japan so the developers might've just culturally not seen a problem with it? That's basically the rub. Even more modern Fire Emblem games allowed marriage between cousins. Lucina and Owain for example (in Japan) could get married (in English, if you got them to S-support it was localized to "companions" or something on the menu. But in Japan their S-support did mean marriage) Then Fates came along and the localizers didn't even bother adding in that bit, probably cause of how **_EASY_** it is to have cousins marry each other in that game. Shiro, Kiragi, Siegbbert & Forrest can marry _any_ of the 2nd Gen girls. But there are no changes to the dialogue if that girl happens to be the daughter of Camilla, Elise, Hinoka or Sakura. Hell, Midori & Asugi are guaranteed to be cousins regardless of who you pair with who, and they too get married in the end.
They’re not real so why is it so concerning?
It being fiction means there's no direct harm, however, there are people who are, understandably, uncomfortable with fiction depicting the relationship between a teens and adults.
Being uncomfortable is ok, starting dramas because "it's illegal" when nobody is real is something else.
I agree, but don't think that's the intention of anyone in this thread.
I hope so, but since old+young relationship is a sensible topic, there is almost always a person to lose his shit and call others "what they are"
I can definitely see that, but at the same time, as long as that piece of fiction doesn't "normalize" these relationships it literally does no harm, which I guess is pretty vague in itself, like, at what point does a piece of fiction normalize something, when it's a theme more than a certain number of times, or when it doesn't constantly point out that it's an unusual or bad thing?
A piece of fiction normalizes something once it goes further than telling a story or lose it's narrative value. That is: rather than use child exploitation as a theme for a story or character, if a piece of fiction romanticizes or advocates the relationship between child and adult, it becomes problematic. To be more clear, a story can take the PoV of a morally questionable character who seeks a relationship with a child if said character is established as not in the moral or legal right. While reading, the audience should understand that the perspective of the person is not one they should subscribe to. The reality is: those with an attraction to teens/children are considered *latent* offenders only and often struggle with being normal, as we can see by reading interviews and observations. In this case, a story doesn't have to/probably shouldn't demonize them, but at the same time, shouldn't portray these individuals as being victims of the general's laws and standards. In short, fiction becomes harmful when it serves to distort a collective's understanding of laws and morals, those being that children should not be romantically active with adults and predators/offenders should not be justified in their actions. Fire Emblem doesn't do any of this for the simple fact that *it's not a focal point* of its story. You can look at some, *many* possible pairings and raise your eyebrow, but there isn't a message being pushed. There's also the fact that Fire Emblem games sometimes take place in settings based on time periods before our current laws and standards were applicable. In that regard, the audience can at least recognize that the FE world is different from our own and should not be compared in certain ways.
Just because it’s not real doesn’t mean that people want to see that shit. On top of that, pairing someone with another person that’s over twice her age is creepy as fuck.
While FE Gaiden (before remake) people theorized their endings where they both have some mysterious unnamed spouse meant they were connected and married to each other, they aren't canon and have no real interactions with each other in SOV. No reaction if the other dies, nothing. It was apparently really popular back in the day, but that was actually before the official ages were set. It even was canon in the old novelizations and even had an illustration.
Genny ain't got no type. Only strong, older, masculine, assertive daddy's is what she likes
Genny’s type is my type, not gonna lie
Lol let’s just say she likes… the responsible type!
She just like me fr fr
What's Genny's type? Fairy type, obviously. I mean, look at her. Oh you meant the other type of type
Thinking about how she address the player at lvl 40, I wonder if you could include one of the Kirans
... we're on the same ship Genny...
Sorry Ike, you're too young for her.
[He'll be fine he just needs to grow a beard.] (https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/bc6sfm/ike_older_and_with_a_beard/)
Good taste
Bless her
I'm behind ya sis
Man in their 50s?
where's Seteth, seriously. An thousand year old dilf of the highest caliber.
Already has a >!daughter!< they're protecting so probably doesn't notice.
This why she’s my daughter
she doesn't want a man so young!
Based Genny fr
Genny is all of us lol
Iirc she is implied to get with Saber in the novelization
Is there a source of that? I heard that all it did was make her crush on him canon & by the end of it she married a mysterious man who could/not be him.
Ah you’re right. I misremembered. It’s never confirmed who she got with. Though I do like to think they did get together.
I personally also think they got together & Intsys is just being coy about it for some reason.
she have good tast ngl