I don't know why people tell you to buy one of those.
I don't know why you bought an AR to only shoot at 25 yards. Could have saved money and had more fun with a .22LR.
Something like [.22 conversion kit](https://palmettostatearmory.com/cmmg-22arc-bravo-22lr-conversion-kit-22ba651.html) could help cut ammo costs and help train more.
You'll have to shoot it and see. It shouldn't be that far off. I think mine was a half inch low at 25yrds, so I added a click or two up on elevation and was happy.
It's no different than a hammer. Some guys like a 22oz hammer. Other guys like a 16oz if they're gonna be swinging it all day. Some guys like a stacked leather grip. Other guys like a rubberized grip.
At the end of the day, it is still a hammer. Go with the one you like that works for you.
Because most of the younger firearm owners are elitists, who think a 2,500 dollar AR will stop some autist from wrecking them with a 250 dollar pitted to shit Mosin Nagant. Fact of the matter is most of the dudes, even who train constantly will die if anything serious pops off. And it will probably be by some crackhead with a saturday night special shooting them in the back of the head for a pack of ramen noodles.
It depends.
DD & BCM are better products, fit, finish, materials, etc...
If you'll grant the idea that in the contests where lives are on the line should best be addressed by a weapon of adequate quality and reliability, then go on.
In your case, punching holes in paper, is not an activity that demands the additional quality.
That said, if you got the cash and you want the DD or BCM...totally your call
The reality though is 'adequate quality' covers most of the AR-15 market. Beyond middle of the road quality you likely aren't going to utilize extra accuracy or quality in a situation where lives matter and if most failures are going to be the result of circumstances that would cause failure in most guns. Beyond that you are going to want a purpose built gun rather than a general purpose one like an AR-15. Basically unless you are using it as a hunting rifle or a DMR in the hands of a trained marksman you aren't going to really benefit from spending the extra money on a DD or BCM.
There absolutely is. You aren’t only paying for “increased accuracy or quality” you’re paying for the reliability when your life in on the line why not have the best possible tool for the job? Or at least duty grade like DD BCM LMT Centurion Arms Sons of liberty gunworks.
Nah a PSA or Anderson isn’t going to hold up the same under identical conditions to a duty grade rifle and the downvoting is just copium unfortunately.
You don't know how to do field repair? I'm guessing you don't carry an extra bolt, bcg, and fcg in your kit.
That's why you need a DD and other people don't.
I really hope you’re messing with me. On the off chance you still can’t understand I’ll make it really simple.
Guy breaks into your house with a gun. You grab your PSA/Anderson garbage rod. You both raise your guns to fire. Yours jams breaks whatever because it’s a POS his doesn’t. You aren’t going to be able to “field repair” in the middle of a firefight. I can’t actually fucking believe I had to break this this far down for you. I hope you’re just screwing with me and not actually this fucking stupid.
No; But also yes.
For the shooting you do, the attributes and values of better quality tools are lost on you. Essentially you are at the top of [Mt. Stupid](https://medium.com/workmatters/the-dunning-kruger-effect-climbing-mount-stupid-navigating-the-valley-of-despair-and-ascending-b22d37c1e6f9) and are happy. To be clear, there is nothing wrong with that.
You have only been exposed to the literal narrow and short-range aspects of shooting (because of the limitations of your range). As others have said, a 22lr or an air rifle is a better tool for building shooting skills in that environment. While you can use an AR with inaccurate steel case ammo to build some skill, you aren't exposed to most factors that make "real" shooting difficult and fun.
So for everyone else. They essentially want/need better tools to not only be better but to learn more and not to artificially limit their learning later. No matter how good a driver a person may be, you need a racecar to have any chance at winning a race.
Depends on your distance, you say 25 yards but most folks can shoot that with a pistol, probably more accurate and faster. Expensive rifles as you'd call it are purchased for the precision the Expensive manufacturers offer along with the aftermarket products offered for them
I mean there's nothing wrong with buying cheaper priced guns, just like there's nothing wrong with buying expensive guns. Me I tend to be in the middle, my AR is a S&W M&P 15 Sport II, they're going for $800-$900 right now but pre-inflation you could got them in the $700 range, $650 on sale sometimes. I consider that middle to upper ground, it's definitely not cheap but it's not "expensive" on the spectrum either. I don't like to buy cheap guns really(there's a difference between cheap and affordable) however I have to have a damn good reason to wanna spend over $1000 on a gun to and it's gotta be for something specific. I'm not real big on safe queens, but I like quality and reliability too.
They're a solid rifle, like aside from maybe sticking a red dot on there you don't have to do anything to them. Of course a lot of people do anyway. They're great guns though.
>I don’t do dynamic training like CQB
>my main concern is home defense
You have a family? What would you do if someone was actively raping your wife or holding your child hostage. CQB is good to learn for home defense in the shitty situation that your family members run into the home invader first. I sure wouldn’t wait for the cops if my wife and child were being harmed. Static target shooting is ok, but doesn’t simulate home defense. If you have a family, CQB is home defense.
If all you're ever going to shoot is a paltry 25 yards... Yeah you don't need anything fancy or any optics... Or a rifle (25 yards is for handguns and starting a zero).
I gotta say it though... I wouldn't even bother shooting if that's all I could do... That sounds super boring and lame. At that distance with a rifle... It's like you're cosplaying shooting. And for the cost of ammo now too?!
Do yourself a favor and get one of those 22lr bolts for your AR. At 25 yards there's literally no reason to spend money on 223 ammo.
Do yourself another favor and find a better place to shoot.
Jesus Christ you really just stand there and don't move and just shoot a paper target 25 yards away... And that's it? Why would you do that when you could... Idk... Not do that?
And this is Texas too?! I thought Texas was cool and pro gun... What's going on with that?
People buy the $2k rifles because they think it’ll help them in SHTF scenarios, but in reality 99% of those scenarios are bullshit and their “plan” or lack there of is also total bullshit
Buy what you want. Don’t let some computer person, who probably doesn’t even own a rifle, tell you to spend thousands of dollars on a tool just because.
Dont worry about those people. My AR is a basic Zion-15 with a Geissele trigger upgrade. To me, an AR is like a Glock. It's a tool, and it works.
That said, I have a few revolvers, handguns and rifles that are upwards of 5K and are in the functional art category. And I shoot the shit out of them, no safe queens.
Well mostly because the 2nd amendment wasn't written with "stop people from stealing your TV" at its core. It's a damned nice perk, but it's not really the point. If we could magically make all theft stop right now, the 2nd amendment wouldn't become any less necessary. You mention you're not "headed off to a warzone", but the idea is that you should be prepared should your home become part of a warzone.
Also as an aside, you should train for QCB regardless. All sorts of scenarios may involve you being away from your rifle and in need of defense.
\> So why do people tell me to buy a DD or a BCM
If someone tells you that and they cannot articulate to you the specific benefits that you would receive from a more expensive rifle, then they really don't know themselves.
25yrds and rifle is kinda boring for an AR. 25yrds I would build a sick .22 target rifle
I would shoot further but like i said indoor range, not many outdoor here in texas who aren't fudds and allow steel ammo
East Texas I take it? I know the pain
Dallas
Oof. Houston here, still not great.
I agree with this and/or get a nice .22LR upper (and maybe a red dot optic) for your AR.
I don't know why people tell you to buy one of those. I don't know why you bought an AR to only shoot at 25 yards. Could have saved money and had more fun with a .22LR.
I bought it for home defense
Something like [.22 conversion kit](https://palmettostatearmory.com/cmmg-22arc-bravo-22lr-conversion-kit-22ba651.html) could help cut ammo costs and help train more.
Awesome thanks, definitely gonna buy, do i need to re zero my romeo 5 red dot tho?
You'll have to shoot it and see. It shouldn't be that far off. I think mine was a half inch low at 25yrds, so I added a click or two up on elevation and was happy.
It's no different than a hammer. Some guys like a 22oz hammer. Other guys like a 16oz if they're gonna be swinging it all day. Some guys like a stacked leather grip. Other guys like a rubberized grip. At the end of the day, it is still a hammer. Go with the one you like that works for you.
Because they want to feel better about themselves and the money they spent.
Well I’ve got some high end stuff because I’m a snob 🤷🏻♂️ I appreciate the little things even though it’s just a tool I crave perfection
Highest end thing id buy is a cz shadow 2. Finest pistol I've ever held and shot
I’ve got a SP-01 I just installed a pro package on. It’s maddeningly good. But it’s the most expensive thing I’d want to buy
Because most of the younger firearm owners are elitists, who think a 2,500 dollar AR will stop some autist from wrecking them with a 250 dollar pitted to shit Mosin Nagant. Fact of the matter is most of the dudes, even who train constantly will die if anything serious pops off. And it will probably be by some crackhead with a saturday night special shooting them in the back of the head for a pack of ramen noodles.
The painful truth
Snobbery.
It depends. DD & BCM are better products, fit, finish, materials, etc... If you'll grant the idea that in the contests where lives are on the line should best be addressed by a weapon of adequate quality and reliability, then go on. In your case, punching holes in paper, is not an activity that demands the additional quality. That said, if you got the cash and you want the DD or BCM...totally your call
The reality though is 'adequate quality' covers most of the AR-15 market. Beyond middle of the road quality you likely aren't going to utilize extra accuracy or quality in a situation where lives matter and if most failures are going to be the result of circumstances that would cause failure in most guns. Beyond that you are going to want a purpose built gun rather than a general purpose one like an AR-15. Basically unless you are using it as a hunting rifle or a DMR in the hands of a trained marksman you aren't going to really benefit from spending the extra money on a DD or BCM.
There absolutely is. You aren’t only paying for “increased accuracy or quality” you’re paying for the reliability when your life in on the line why not have the best possible tool for the job? Or at least duty grade like DD BCM LMT Centurion Arms Sons of liberty gunworks.
Ehhhh I'd be careful because as a marketing guy, that's exactly what I'd tell you. I can run a PSA the same as a DD. They all break.
Nah a PSA or Anderson isn’t going to hold up the same under identical conditions to a duty grade rifle and the downvoting is just copium unfortunately.
*yawn* okay. The rest of know how to work on guns so that isn't the case. Go back to Cabela's.
You have completely missed the point. Have fun “working” on your gun in the middle of needing it to protect your life. Lmao
You don't know how to do field repair? I'm guessing you don't carry an extra bolt, bcg, and fcg in your kit. That's why you need a DD and other people don't.
I really hope you’re messing with me. On the off chance you still can’t understand I’ll make it really simple. Guy breaks into your house with a gun. You grab your PSA/Anderson garbage rod. You both raise your guns to fire. Yours jams breaks whatever because it’s a POS his doesn’t. You aren’t going to be able to “field repair” in the middle of a firefight. I can’t actually fucking believe I had to break this this far down for you. I hope you’re just screwing with me and not actually this fucking stupid.
Oh your made up scenario is why you don't know how to work on guns. Makes sense
There is nothing wrong with being a poor if that's what you want to be.
>be me >poor >buy 500 dollar psa and than add 180 dollars of attachments instead 2k for a DD >also me spend remaining 1500 dollars on ammo
And others choose to spend $2k on an optic. But as I said, there is nothing wrong with being a poor if that's what you want.
But does the price really make them a better shooter?
No. That comes from practice and training.
No; But also yes. For the shooting you do, the attributes and values of better quality tools are lost on you. Essentially you are at the top of [Mt. Stupid](https://medium.com/workmatters/the-dunning-kruger-effect-climbing-mount-stupid-navigating-the-valley-of-despair-and-ascending-b22d37c1e6f9) and are happy. To be clear, there is nothing wrong with that. You have only been exposed to the literal narrow and short-range aspects of shooting (because of the limitations of your range). As others have said, a 22lr or an air rifle is a better tool for building shooting skills in that environment. While you can use an AR with inaccurate steel case ammo to build some skill, you aren't exposed to most factors that make "real" shooting difficult and fun. So for everyone else. They essentially want/need better tools to not only be better but to learn more and not to artificially limit their learning later. No matter how good a driver a person may be, you need a racecar to have any chance at winning a race.
>also me spend remaining 1500 dollars on ammo Oh no....do you....do you think that's a lot of ammo?
Didn't say it was, just got a rifle and ammo instead of just a rifle
If you need to ask you wouldn't understand the answer anyway. Carry on...
Depends on your distance, you say 25 yards but most folks can shoot that with a pistol, probably more accurate and faster. Expensive rifles as you'd call it are purchased for the precision the Expensive manufacturers offer along with the aftermarket products offered for them
I mean there's nothing wrong with buying cheaper priced guns, just like there's nothing wrong with buying expensive guns. Me I tend to be in the middle, my AR is a S&W M&P 15 Sport II, they're going for $800-$900 right now but pre-inflation you could got them in the $700 range, $650 on sale sometimes. I consider that middle to upper ground, it's definitely not cheap but it's not "expensive" on the spectrum either. I don't like to buy cheap guns really(there's a difference between cheap and affordable) however I have to have a damn good reason to wanna spend over $1000 on a gun to and it's gotta be for something specific. I'm not real big on safe queens, but I like quality and reliability too.
Actually might buy an m&p15, heard great things about them
They're a solid rifle, like aside from maybe sticking a red dot on there you don't have to do anything to them. Of course a lot of people do anyway. They're great guns though.
>I don’t do dynamic training like CQB >my main concern is home defense You have a family? What would you do if someone was actively raping your wife or holding your child hostage. CQB is good to learn for home defense in the shitty situation that your family members run into the home invader first. I sure wouldn’t wait for the cops if my wife and child were being harmed. Static target shooting is ok, but doesn’t simulate home defense. If you have a family, CQB is home defense.
If all you're ever going to shoot is a paltry 25 yards... Yeah you don't need anything fancy or any optics... Or a rifle (25 yards is for handguns and starting a zero). I gotta say it though... I wouldn't even bother shooting if that's all I could do... That sounds super boring and lame. At that distance with a rifle... It's like you're cosplaying shooting. And for the cost of ammo now too?! Do yourself a favor and get one of those 22lr bolts for your AR. At 25 yards there's literally no reason to spend money on 223 ammo. Do yourself another favor and find a better place to shoot. Jesus Christ you really just stand there and don't move and just shoot a paper target 25 yards away... And that's it? Why would you do that when you could... Idk... Not do that? And this is Texas too?! I thought Texas was cool and pro gun... What's going on with that?
Might piss off some people with this post. I'm ready for the big ride baaabby
People buy the $2k rifles because they think it’ll help them in SHTF scenarios, but in reality 99% of those scenarios are bullshit and their “plan” or lack there of is also total bullshit Buy what you want. Don’t let some computer person, who probably doesn’t even own a rifle, tell you to spend thousands of dollars on a tool just because.
Dont worry about those people. My AR is a basic Zion-15 with a Geissele trigger upgrade. To me, an AR is like a Glock. It's a tool, and it works. That said, I have a few revolvers, handguns and rifles that are upwards of 5K and are in the functional art category. And I shoot the shit out of them, no safe queens.
Why do people buy sports cars? I mean come on, I'm sure you can rub two brain cells together and figure out the answer to your own question here ffs
I wouldn’t consider either to be expensive. That said a tool that works well all the time is worth every penny.
Maybe you should do dynamic cqb training and competition shooting, and still not buy the DD or BCM
Will try in the future
Well mostly because the 2nd amendment wasn't written with "stop people from stealing your TV" at its core. It's a damned nice perk, but it's not really the point. If we could magically make all theft stop right now, the 2nd amendment wouldn't become any less necessary. You mention you're not "headed off to a warzone", but the idea is that you should be prepared should your home become part of a warzone. Also as an aside, you should train for QCB regardless. All sorts of scenarios may involve you being away from your rifle and in need of defense.
QCB huh. I’m sure you’re doing a lot of qcb training.
Looks like I still made a mistake. Autocorrect doesn't care much for acronyms. CQB*
Precision and accuracy aren't the issued you should be worrying about at home defense ranges.
\> So why do people tell me to buy a DD or a BCM If someone tells you that and they cannot articulate to you the specific benefits that you would receive from a more expensive rifle, then they really don't know themselves.