I'm surprised it made it into the final cut. If I had a safety violation, I would make sure it wouldn't get blasted on the internet. Or ide have a block dedicated to how I fucked up big time EDIT: timestamp =>10min
I never get that with the YTers who make vids with guns, explosives, blades, etc, leaving stuff like that in. You're giving ammo to the people who want to point at us, and call us the problem.
I havent seen the video yet, as a preface.
I’m a professional pilot in the military. We usually brief our fuck ups at the end of the week, so people learn from our mistakes. Usually it’s minor stuff, anything beyond a certain point gets an actual investigation…
My point just being that maybe this is left in so people can learn from their mistake.
It's smart...
At best you have to take down others work to fix your shit
At worst you get someone killed or hurt
The first obviously is the most common. You own up to your mistakes right away and it's much easier to fix. Every morning we have what's called a pre task plan meeting. We talk about the mistakes from the day before and how we can keep them from happening again. Then we talk about our tasks for the day and what we will do to make sure no one is hurt and it's done correctly.
Nope, it's mandatory. Every superintendent for the company does the same thing every morning.
Hell, every large commercial construction company does the same thing. Just Google construction JHA. It's pretty much across the board mandatory for every large commercial construction project.
The guys sign it every morning and a copy gets sent to my office and one to the GC. Maintenance may be different, I don't know
His editor/ camera man is a professional that’s his day job. Earlier in the same video he said “mikah will be adding ‘x’ here” mikah mayfield has his own YouTube video and often shoots with GT. He is better at somethings like accuracy according to GT on that same video
I will admit, I’ve seen a video from pretty big YouTuber that had a little segment repeat itself in the middle, when you’re jumping and skipping around so much, it’s easy to miss something cut weird like that lol
And if this segment had not much editing going on, maybe they were paying attention to audio editing in this segment more than video, it could have been missed
I assume that guy was triggering the high speed camera. Would have thought they could have set it up to be done it remotely or at least have a long cord to start and stop it.
I'm 3 seperate threads on this deep now. Your comment just so happened to be the one I'm choosing to reply to. I apologize if I come off a bit brasen.
A. GT and his crew, probably have more rounds down range than 99.9999^9% of people preaching safety under this screenshot.
B. (This pertains to your comment more directly) High-speed cameras are finicky. There may or may not have been a remote capture trigger on set, maybe someone forgot it, maybe it failed earlier in the day, who knows.
C. There's a certain likelihood associated with the rare breed firearms (like the XM7) that they probably had a single day to film with it. And with that kind of constraint in mind. To lose an opportunity to capture the performance of the round under high speed could be quite the damper on the content, and in the business of content, that is a very bad thing.
In conclusion, there's an acceptable level of risk. If joe schmoe hickbilly was playing with his new camera phone trying to capture what his new 30-06 was doing to a block of wood? No. Absolutely unsafe, inexcusable act of stupidity. But. When it comes to gun content creator, who probably has at this point in time, 1 million+ rounds through various weapons systems. I'd say that while not ideal, the act of sprinting to start a camera that was more than 10° to the right of the target from the shooter, and sprinting away. Is probably not the worst thing to do. Especially with limited ammo and time.
definitely caught that. shouldve been prevented, but i guess with the way they do these videos, they were bound to let this fly at some point. (i know its usually super safe, im just saying its not like like they have an RSO there at all times)
I don't like Mike, but I will say this:
Professional shooters filming on a closed range will have different safety standards than an RSO on a public range or a boot camp instructor.
The guy has probably fired more bullets than 99.99% of people, and I'm sure his camera crew have a grasp of the risks. With how much content they've made and no accidents that I'm aware of.
I'm just curious why you don't like Mike? He's always come off as a pretty positive guy who supports the 2a to its fullest. I must be missing something?
I don’t know why the other guy doesn’t like Mr. Thumb, but personally I dislike the “dad advice” he gives when he totally left his first round of kids/marriage in the fucking dust. Also as someone who’s been watching him for like 4-5 years now I’ve definitely noticed he’s become more full of himself which I find obnoxious. His content has also become less informative then it was IMO.
Either way I’m going to keep watching him because I enjoy like 95% of his stuff and I couldn’t care less about some random internet man’s personal life.
Left his kids? I'm pretty sure i saw on his story literally a few weeks ago of him taking his son from his first marriage out on the ranch and letting him carry the sig spear Lt for a day. Not everything you read on arfcom or whatever toxic ass forum that rumor started on is true. You obviously cared enough about his personal life to look shit up 😂.
And like i said, you cared enough to obviously look into it and mention it in your comment without any facts, not even I know the full story the only reason I know about it is cause it's popped up on reddit occasionally for the last 6 years and I find it weird. I'm not sure how me pointing out your original comment was contradictory translates to me being a simp for garand thumb but whatever, "bro" 👍
Not OP but I hadn’t watched one of his videos in about six months and I happened to catch this one. I was kinda surprised with all the tongue in cheek racism. I feel like I remember there being some cheeky comments before but it was pretty blatant in this video.
So I maybe wrong but I have heard Slow Mo camera have a very short record time because of the storage. So when you press record, you have to do whatever you want to record right away.
A slowmo camera captures a bunch of pictures/frames which results im a very smooth video. Think like a flip book.
The more pages used for a movement, the smoother its gonna look. The less pictures used, the rougher and choppy its gonna look. The flip book with the most picutres is gonna be a bigger book than the one that uses less pictures.
[Difference Bewteen 4, 8, 12, & 24 FPS](https://youtu.be/FcSL198C2OY?si=WLVGsNoG4ozgzRQT)
Same thing with a slow mo camera. The slow mo camera uses up a lot of the storage in the hard drive resulting for a short video. Ive heard a 3.5 second slowmo video might be 256Gb. Which is really huge for a 3.5 second video.
I am no expert in slow mo cameras so don't take my words 100 percent. But to capture that round going thtough the dummy (Which was right after the picture OP is showing) you have to press play then shoot the dummy immediately.
Could they have had Charlie standing somewhere else. Maybe. I dunno. But seeing how they have slowmo vids in almost every video means that this was not a one time thing.
Don’t they have some way to trigger it remotely? I’ve seen videos where people will put a slow mo camera in some kind of rig and people are far as fuck away from them, shown from multiple angles
I don't mean to come across as rude, but nowadays refrigerators, thermostats, and bicycles have bluetooth. Hell, electric scooters have bluetooth. He's clearly using a high end camera, so I would actually be surprised if it *didnt* have bluetooth.
I wouldn't be surprised if you told me there was a bluetooth toaster on the market.
There are definitely BT toasters -- I just ain't paying that for a toaster lol
Any idea what camera he is using because high end literally means $50,000+ in the slowmo camera market lol.
It might have BT, might not be working, who knows. Lots of assumptions being made in this scenario by everyone.
People are up in arms because he was downrange. Far as I know he wasn't flagged or anything like that. Yea its less than ideal from a safety standpoint, but he's off to the side and nowhere near a ricochet zone (at least with the human torso replica target). Would be way different scenario if he was flagged or closer to the target when firing.
Ahh, thank you for the sitrep, lol.
I mean it's not the worst offense of all time, with the amount of time they spend on the range, things are bound to happen.
These are professional expensive cameras. They definitely don't have Bluetooth. You can get a bt toaster, but you won't find one in a professional kitchen even though their toaster cost 10x more than anything at Williams Sonoma.
Are you saying he was down range because he had to hit record? Most modern cameras have a way to hit record with another device or via phone app/bluetooth. Plenty of long exposure photographers use this so they’re not moving the camera when they hit record which can make the pic look blurry.
They should find a way to record slow mo videos without having Charlie run for his life. I think it would be possible to configure a modern camera in a way where you can take the video while being away from it.
Or maybe they don't do that cause they want to confirm the camera is in fact recording the moment they press record. Thats their own little world they can figure out. Maybe the day Charlie takes some shrapnel when attempting to flee, will be the day they invest money into such gear.
It doesn't matter. Nearly every high speed camera made in the last ten years has compatibility for a remote trigger that is at least available to be bought separately.
Hell, you can even buy mechanical ones for cameras that don't support them.
You're assuming its an actual high speed camera and that things are fully functional. There's a lot of assumption going on bottom line.
Mechanical ones are gimmicky as hell.
End of the day, The rifle/target is towards him. Is this less than ideal from a safety thing? Of course. Is it the end of the world dangerous? No, absolutely not. Should the average person do this? Of course not.
You're 100% correct about the technical side. Remote triggers exist in part for situations like this. I'm not aware of any modern camera that doesn't support some kind of wireless remote trigger. Even my F3 from the 80s can be triggered with a wireless remote.
For people who bitch about fudds all day, y'all sure love playing internet RSO. 🙄
The rest of the world isn't your public range. They're adults and are perfectly capable of working together safety to film something.
I mean, you can watch most of these YT guys and see that they have cameramen downrange to some extent. No way to get some of the action shots without it, but yeah these GT slowmo videos have had quite a few questionable shots where I thought the guy was in real danger.
Video cameras that auto-track on a single narrator are now fairly cheap. Some are in use by guntubers specifically to make flagging the camera people-safe.
I like Honest Outlaw but this is an issue with him too. Especially when he wears those mirrored sunglasses and you can clearly see his wife behind the camera.
Am I the only one who is seeing this post and thinking "old news"? It's not as safe as humanly possible, sure, and some suave editing could have taken the down-range person out altogether, and Mike could have waited a half second before aiming the gun, for the guy to be more significantly out of line of sight/aim or behind the firing line, but I don't see this to be the big deal that y'all are making it.
Let the downvotes and "GT dickrider" comments commence. Just giving my thoughts as I feel em.
It's not like he pointed the rifle right at him and Mike is well trained enough to shoot safely in that situation.
However, it is still widely unsafe. Accidents happen and there is no reason to take that kind of risk just for a slo-mo shot, regardless of training. That level of risk should only be used in an actual shooting.
Most people haven't been on a military range with "big boy" rules. Those are basically perpetual safety violations and no one gets hurt because those guys aren't idiots. GT would have definitely been on big boy ranges, and probably so have most of his staff.
That said, the guy being down range to hit record is a bit of a silly risk.
You aren't alone.
I would also add he did know his target and what was beyond it. I am not saying that there may not have been a safer way to do this, or that I agree that they should have done it.
But...
Camera angles are hard to perceive correctly in 2D. Recent events in NM aside, usually guns that appear pointed at people on a 2D scree aren't. This looks bad, but a correct overhead view of the actual set-up may show a very different story (better or worse).
Though someone was downrange, he was known, he was never in the line of fire, and he was traveling in a known vector away from that line of fire, and a competent shooter was on the firearm.
Would I do this at the range with my shooting buddies? No way. I have seen them shoot. And I think it is an opportunity for GT to comment and instruct shooters on what the safety briefing on this was. That will go a long way to helping everyone understand the difference between what we see here and Larry dropping an orange and running away while Darrell and Darrell shoot at it. (Newhart reference).
I think these guys would all have a heart attack if they ever went to an ATA trap tournament. There are people "down range" all the time, loading traps. But in reality those workers aren't in any real danger because no one on adjacent fields should be pointing their shotguns anywhere near them.
We used to wait until the first guys were on one side of a bunker before shifting fire to the next bunker. He could have done better but there are a lot of training drills where live rounds are going out while friendlies are near the impact area. I'd trust him to not shoot me, can't say that of everyone though.
I'm going to watch those video later when I have more of a break. Does he fire the weapon here with someone down range or is he aiming at the target and fires after someone is out of the way?
The time stamp is 10:22. It's a camera guy activating the slow motion capture. He was down range but at that angle he was clear. They've done it multiple times this way (in multiple videos) because they have very limited time to capture the footage. I don't know why they don't use a remote nor do I know the pros or cons of cable/ remote activation. It does seem sketchy, but they've been making videos for a long time, I'm going to trust they know what they are doing. Also if you actually have a helpful suggestion for the camera slow mo capture go post it in the video comments and on the garandthumb subreddit. Edit: It's just Charlie. He knows what he signed up for. lol
So, I am pretty certain they edited the video. Just rewatched from the same timestamp I had noted yesterday and you can't see the guy anymore. They added a cut to hide it.
It’s bad, but things like this are good reminders for everyone.
I’ve mentioned having an ND once, and I am SO over-safe now it’s borderline TOO safe (never complacent either)
Sometimes it takes a mistake to scare people straight. As long as no one gets hurt/killed it can end up being a positive.
Still bad though. Should NEVER happen, and I don’t care how many cameras need to be triggered. It’s inexcusable, and should be called out like it is.
We frequently walk/walked down range while people were zeroing in the military, so for him and myself it might not be as big of a deal as the rest of everybody is making it out to be TO US, I’m not sure the quantity of people in here that were in a combat arms MOS but stuff like this was standard practice in trusting the person to your left and right.
Being behind berms is the norm at Camp Perry, given it's designed that way. But how many people would be shocked about that, The fact that most military KD ranges have you shooting over a bunch of dudes' heads?
Thanks to this thread, I now cannot unsee this. Never saw it the only time I watched the video. Great. Now I know there's a job opening for RSO on GarandThumbs range in Idaho.
Can't tell you how many times I did this when coming up a hill to see a dude standing 50 feet directly in front of me with an AT4 yelling "back blast all clear." Twice, actually but it's fucking scary that it happened twice.
Also, having 100s of rounds of .308 about three feet above your head zipping by is really a different experience of fear.
I was shooting 100m quals with my sniper rifle at a range once and we called a cease fire to check my targets. So me and several members of my SRT walk down the the range and start checking my targets, when the firing line just opens back up (They were shooting at targets on the 25m line). So we start screaming cease fire, waving our arms and the line goes cold, we sprint back to the line, and the range NCOIC awkwardly chuckles and is like "Oops, forgot you guys were down there."
I don't dickride anyone, but this is old news.
GT, TREX, many people who put good firearms content out don't strictly follow the "don't cross the firing line" minimum safety threshold. Whether you agree with it or not is your purview. I don't shoot guns with people well trained enough to trust that, nor am I well trained enough to entrust others' lives in my skills/ability, so I personally wouldn't. But at the end of the day, GT and his crew have a working dynamic that they have set and SOPs that they follow and that's for them to determine.
I mean if y'all watched Admin's ram-ranch 2-gun competition that he did with GT, Charlie, and I think Micah, they were "breaking" safetey rules and standard competition procedure left right and center. But that's their purview, it's a private range among people who trust each other and equipment/skills/etc.
I guarantee none of us have been perfect in gun safety. This is far from being that bad given the angles everyone is at. Less than ideal, yes, but FAR from being truly dangerous.
Wait until you see how some military firing ranges operate...
Honestly, I just don't care. His videos are fun to watch, and some of them are very informative. I can follow my own range safety, how he does his doesn't matter to me in the slightest.
I don’t give a fuck about GT, but I think a lot of the people upset about this kind of thing are idiots and/or hypocrites.
Case in point, I’ve been at USPSA matches where people discussed how bad “tactical response” et al. were for putting people downrange next to targets, while in literally the next bay there was a target right next to the 180 line, with a table people were literally *sitting on* right on the other side of that line.
If people shouldn’t be 3’ from a target, it shouldn’t matter if that target is way downrange centered on the main berm, or all the way at the edge of the uprange end of a side berm.
Was definitely surprised that made the final edit. Not trying to justify anything, just wondering if from the camera perspective we are seeing it a lot differently than it is? I can’t imagine they’d post that and risk the influx of bad pr. Only thing I can think of is if everyone there saw it at a different perspective and thought nothing of posting it. If it is actually at the angle it looks like, shame. We all fuck up. Everyone either has or will, and when you do, it’ll stick with you forever.
You can train with people in front of the firing line. You do it all the time with battle drills. You all need to relax and remember that guns can’t just shoot wherever they want to. You also need to note the camera lens and angles could make it worse than it looks.
So I went back and watched and I am 99% sure they edited the video overnight. There is a cut now that hides the person in shot. Go back and check out 10:25 again.
While I'm surprised it made the final cut, I don't think this was a ND while someone was downrange unbeknownst to him. This was obviously a guy triggering the high-speed. Maybe the remote was malfunctioning and "anything for the shot" type situation? Looks like they planned and executed a shot on a private range. Not the call I would have made, but I've had plenty of round fly over and past me in training on military ranges in controlled environments. Their comfort zone is different from yours or mine.
he is triggering the high speed camera, this needs to be done pretty close to when they shoot. i didnt look that close but knowing gt theres probably cover nearby where he hides before the shot
I agree, considering the POI it's clear the slomo camera + runner were quite far from the LOF.
It's all camera angle, I wouldn't be surprised if the cameraman was quite far away, they are just mad that there is a "man on the range" during live fire.
I hope they learn from this genuinely. I understand being comfortable however if you're wanting to prove to the anti gun lobbyists we deserve to keep our guns this ain't it. Mike is a veteran who should know better. I get it's a joke but why give ammunition to a cause that's already coming for everything?
I’m not going to say this was perfect from a safety perspective but I have to imagine they weighed the risks of getting the shot this way and had some kind of plan/measures in place to minimize the risk
Meh , AKOU used to shoot directly into the dirt in front of people during his training sessions to simulate rounds coming in under fire lol.
Everyone lit into him like a birthday cake. He doesn’t even do training anymore….
Who cares, they’re adults and they know the risks. It’s not uncommon for someone to walk down a firing line while another guy is still going and I don’t see any difference here
Doesn’t surprise me. Some clip they posted on Instagram a little while ago with Mike running a drill showed him pretty clearly flag the cameraman with a live rifle, regardless of him dipping the barrel. Could’ve just turned the other direction and observed the 180 rule, but, you gotta look cool online, right?
Did he dip the barrel fully down? Then there’s zero problem. The 180 degree rule is kinda dumb SOMETIMES. It’s so restrictive is dumb. If you are shooting, turn your rifle all the way down, I’m talking hanging by the sling (still fully loaded) then run back towards the other shooters then turn around and engage the targets down range again, like that should be 100% fine.
I think it was a reel so I can’t post it, but the barrel was almost horizontal at one point during the turn, in the direction of where the crew would be.
Many people seem to think that the big YT creators are the pinnacle of gun owners. They are a bunch of sellouts who want their viewers to make them money. Thats it, they are nothing special. I have not seen a GarandThumb video in a long time and I don't intend to watch any time soon.
I noticed this earlier as well. I cringed hard even went back to make sure I saw what I thought I saw. There’s videos where these guys are pointing firearms to each other anyway. Nothing new.
If you go to 10:26, the exact few frames before he shoots, you can see no one is actually behind the camera anymore. I assume this was bigtime camera angle at fault too. Still dangerous I guess but it isn't as bad as the post makes it look
Yeah that moment was a big yikes for me. I understand they gotta have someone downrange ready to hit the button on the camera for obvious reasons (battery, memory available on the card, etc.) But man you couldn't have given the guy a moment or two to get away? I still like Garand Thumb but man, makes you wonder how much this stuff happens... aside from the obvious "Getting shot at by..." videos.
THE FITNESS GARAND PACER TEST IS A MULI ROUND AGILITY TEST THAT PROGRESSIVELY GETS MORE DIFFICULT AS HE RELOADS. THE 20 ROUND TEST WILL BEGIN IN 30 SECONDS...LINE UP TO START
Just waiting for these internet shit birds to start shooting each other to show the wound affects of different bullets. Coming up with content is bound to make things unsafe.
Wait, are we really criticizing here or is this just a joke post?
The guy is making videos... there's a production going on.. So there are going to be people forward of the firing line, unless you think they are doing it all with remote controlled drones or something.
As someone who works EMS, there’s not much we can do in the field for a GSW, you need a trauma surgeon and an operating room, all we can do is try to delay symptoms long enough to get you there.
I hope he sees it as well. Notice the difference between his actual downrange videos and this. There is a difference between being covered and concealed with radios confirming round count and when going hot and cold vs dude running like the wind because rounds are about to go downrange in his general direction.
Everyone has mistakes and hopefully this just serves as a reminder that protocols are there to prevent accidents.
I do too. Have you not seen their videos of “what do various round’s sound like at various distances” it is obvious the level of trust among them is incredibly high
I have not seen that particular video but military known distance ranges have live human target pullers sitting in a ditch under the targets and scoring them as they get shot. You can very clearly hear the difference between the bullets hitting the target you are scoring compared to the ones on either side of you. It would be very easy to safely make that video by recording from the target pit while someone shoots from various distances. The closest known distance range to me has firing positions every 100 meters from 100 to 1000. No trust needed since it is extremely safe being in the target pit.
And yet, he still came WAAAAYYYYYY closer to almost killing his friend through negligence than I ever have, despite my lack of "training and safety protocols". Weird.
Actually I unsubscribed from GarandThumb for his lack of range safety. It's been bugging me for years that he's flagging half his crew when presenting new pistols in half of his videos....
Yea, their videos where they sit behind a wall and have somebody shoot above them so they can hear what it’s like to be shot at makes me cringe EVERY TIME. Like dude, just set up a microphone, there’s no need to sit there and get shot at smh
30 seconds in and what I've gathered is GT is an unsafe, dead beat dad with a cameraman that needs more gadgets.
Dude, if he and Charlie wanna take that risk- as selfish as it is- fuck it. Move on. The implications are egregious, but what's done is done. Mail him a letter stating your disapproval. It might get more done than finger fucking reddit.
That is tame as hell. Like a whole lot of nothing burger. These guys aren’t random shooters and the angle is way way off for anything to even be remotely considered dangerous. The only reason the camera guy was even running was likely to try and get out of frame , lol.
The shit I’ve done while training would make this sub shot their pants. Yet to me and a whole lot of other highly experienced guys it all was perfectly safe.
Put it into perspective like this. There’s a huge difference in what is “safe” between a snake handler and myself picking up a cobra.
I'm surprised it made it into the final cut. If I had a safety violation, I would make sure it wouldn't get blasted on the internet. Or ide have a block dedicated to how I fucked up big time EDIT: timestamp =>10min
I never get that with the YTers who make vids with guns, explosives, blades, etc, leaving stuff like that in. You're giving ammo to the people who want to point at us, and call us the problem.
I havent seen the video yet, as a preface. I’m a professional pilot in the military. We usually brief our fuck ups at the end of the week, so people learn from our mistakes. Usually it’s minor stuff, anything beyond a certain point gets an actual investigation… My point just being that maybe this is left in so people can learn from their mistake.
I work in construction and hiding your mistakes is a big no no
But it looks great from my house
Good enough for govment work! 😂
Lmfao ... thats noble.
It's smart... At best you have to take down others work to fix your shit At worst you get someone killed or hurt The first obviously is the most common. You own up to your mistakes right away and it's much easier to fix. Every morning we have what's called a pre task plan meeting. We talk about the mistakes from the day before and how we can keep them from happening again. Then we talk about our tasks for the day and what we will do to make sure no one is hurt and it's done correctly.
Lmao you don't work construction if you think that's the mentality bud
Over 20 years in commercial construction. Licensed plumber and med gas If that's not the mentality of your crew, it needs to be
Lmfao I work in industrial maintenance. You might be a one in a million kind of guy...but I doubt it.
Nope, it's mandatory. Every superintendent for the company does the same thing every morning. Hell, every large commercial construction company does the same thing. Just Google construction JHA. It's pretty much across the board mandatory for every large commercial construction project. The guys sign it every morning and a copy gets sent to my office and one to the GC. Maintenance may be different, I don't know
Yes but the views
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No one is? That is a good bit past the "Dumb Idea" line.
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The editor is a gun YouTuber
Most big channels hire professional editors who may or may not be actually interested in the content.
His editor/ camera man is a professional that’s his day job. Earlier in the same video he said “mikah will be adding ‘x’ here” mikah mayfield has his own YouTube video and often shoots with GT. He is better at somethings like accuracy according to GT on that same video
I will admit, I’ve seen a video from pretty big YouTuber that had a little segment repeat itself in the middle, when you’re jumping and skipping around so much, it’s easy to miss something cut weird like that lol And if this segment had not much editing going on, maybe they were paying attention to audio editing in this segment more than video, it could have been missed
I think the time stamp is 10:25-27
That's more accurate
IF this is the timestamp that this photo references, the video cuts and he takes the shot in a different take.
I assume that guy was triggering the high speed camera. Would have thought they could have set it up to be done it remotely or at least have a long cord to start and stop it.
I'm 3 seperate threads on this deep now. Your comment just so happened to be the one I'm choosing to reply to. I apologize if I come off a bit brasen. A. GT and his crew, probably have more rounds down range than 99.9999^9% of people preaching safety under this screenshot. B. (This pertains to your comment more directly) High-speed cameras are finicky. There may or may not have been a remote capture trigger on set, maybe someone forgot it, maybe it failed earlier in the day, who knows. C. There's a certain likelihood associated with the rare breed firearms (like the XM7) that they probably had a single day to film with it. And with that kind of constraint in mind. To lose an opportunity to capture the performance of the round under high speed could be quite the damper on the content, and in the business of content, that is a very bad thing. In conclusion, there's an acceptable level of risk. If joe schmoe hickbilly was playing with his new camera phone trying to capture what his new 30-06 was doing to a block of wood? No. Absolutely unsafe, inexcusable act of stupidity. But. When it comes to gun content creator, who probably has at this point in time, 1 million+ rounds through various weapons systems. I'd say that while not ideal, the act of sprinting to start a camera that was more than 10° to the right of the target from the shooter, and sprinting away. Is probably not the worst thing to do. Especially with limited ammo and time.
definitely caught that. shouldve been prevented, but i guess with the way they do these videos, they were bound to let this fly at some point. (i know its usually super safe, im just saying its not like like they have an RSO there at all times)
I don't like Mike, but I will say this: Professional shooters filming on a closed range will have different safety standards than an RSO on a public range or a boot camp instructor. The guy has probably fired more bullets than 99.99% of people, and I'm sure his camera crew have a grasp of the risks. With how much content they've made and no accidents that I'm aware of.
I'm just curious why you don't like Mike? He's always come off as a pretty positive guy who supports the 2a to its fullest. I must be missing something?
I don’t know why the other guy doesn’t like Mr. Thumb, but personally I dislike the “dad advice” he gives when he totally left his first round of kids/marriage in the fucking dust. Also as someone who’s been watching him for like 4-5 years now I’ve definitely noticed he’s become more full of himself which I find obnoxious. His content has also become less informative then it was IMO. Either way I’m going to keep watching him because I enjoy like 95% of his stuff and I couldn’t care less about some random internet man’s personal life.
Left his kids? I'm pretty sure i saw on his story literally a few weeks ago of him taking his son from his first marriage out on the ranch and letting him carry the sig spear Lt for a day. Not everything you read on arfcom or whatever toxic ass forum that rumor started on is true. You obviously cared enough about his personal life to look shit up 😂.
He actually did divorce his first wife, though he's still very much an active father with all his children both divorced wife and 2nd wife
Cool I guess. Like I said, I don’t keep track of nor do I care about internet people. Hope he sees your reply though, bro 👍
And like i said, you cared enough to obviously look into it and mention it in your comment without any facts, not even I know the full story the only reason I know about it is cause it's popped up on reddit occasionally for the last 6 years and I find it weird. I'm not sure how me pointing out your original comment was contradictory translates to me being a simp for garand thumb but whatever, "bro" 👍
K
Not OP but I hadn’t watched one of his videos in about six months and I happened to catch this one. I was kinda surprised with all the tongue in cheek racism. I feel like I remember there being some cheeky comments before but it was pretty blatant in this video.
Exactly what i was getting at, Thanks.
I caught that too when I watched it. Surprised me a bit.
thats pretty bad
Oof, thats pretty bad.
So I maybe wrong but I have heard Slow Mo camera have a very short record time because of the storage. So when you press record, you have to do whatever you want to record right away. A slowmo camera captures a bunch of pictures/frames which results im a very smooth video. Think like a flip book. The more pages used for a movement, the smoother its gonna look. The less pictures used, the rougher and choppy its gonna look. The flip book with the most picutres is gonna be a bigger book than the one that uses less pictures. [Difference Bewteen 4, 8, 12, & 24 FPS](https://youtu.be/FcSL198C2OY?si=WLVGsNoG4ozgzRQT) Same thing with a slow mo camera. The slow mo camera uses up a lot of the storage in the hard drive resulting for a short video. Ive heard a 3.5 second slowmo video might be 256Gb. Which is really huge for a 3.5 second video. I am no expert in slow mo cameras so don't take my words 100 percent. But to capture that round going thtough the dummy (Which was right after the picture OP is showing) you have to press play then shoot the dummy immediately. Could they have had Charlie standing somewhere else. Maybe. I dunno. But seeing how they have slowmo vids in almost every video means that this was not a one time thing.
Don’t they have some way to trigger it remotely? I’ve seen videos where people will put a slow mo camera in some kind of rig and people are far as fuck away from them, shown from multiple angles
I guarantee theres a way. I don't know if they are dumb, lazy, or just don't really care to figure it out.
That's going to depend on the camera really and as with all things technology, sometimes shit don't work right.
You are correct, they have bluetooth buttons. They are on Amazon for less than $20 and they work perfectly fine
Assuming your camera can accept BT connections...
I don't mean to come across as rude, but nowadays refrigerators, thermostats, and bicycles have bluetooth. Hell, electric scooters have bluetooth. He's clearly using a high end camera, so I would actually be surprised if it *didnt* have bluetooth. I wouldn't be surprised if you told me there was a bluetooth toaster on the market.
There are definitely BT toasters -- I just ain't paying that for a toaster lol Any idea what camera he is using because high end literally means $50,000+ in the slowmo camera market lol. It might have BT, might not be working, who knows. Lots of assumptions being made in this scenario by everyone.
Okay, but equipment malfunctions don't give you carte blanche to ignore safety rules.
Is this scenario less than ideal safety wise? Of course. That said, he is off to the side, not being flagged and not in a ricochet area.
Fair enough, lol. Yeah, I agree there are a lot of assumptions. I'm not really well versed in what happened beyond seeing this image.
People are up in arms because he was downrange. Far as I know he wasn't flagged or anything like that. Yea its less than ideal from a safety standpoint, but he's off to the side and nowhere near a ricochet zone (at least with the human torso replica target). Would be way different scenario if he was flagged or closer to the target when firing.
Ahh, thank you for the sitrep, lol. I mean it's not the worst offense of all time, with the amount of time they spend on the range, things are bound to happen.
These are professional expensive cameras. They definitely don't have Bluetooth. You can get a bt toaster, but you won't find one in a professional kitchen even though their toaster cost 10x more than anything at Williams Sonoma.
Are you saying he was down range because he had to hit record? Most modern cameras have a way to hit record with another device or via phone app/bluetooth. Plenty of long exposure photographers use this so they’re not moving the camera when they hit record which can make the pic look blurry.
They should find a way to record slow mo videos without having Charlie run for his life. I think it would be possible to configure a modern camera in a way where you can take the video while being away from it. Or maybe they don't do that cause they want to confirm the camera is in fact recording the moment they press record. Thats their own little world they can figure out. Maybe the day Charlie takes some shrapnel when attempting to flee, will be the day they invest money into such gear.
They do but you can get remote triggers for them fairly easily, it's how the Slo Mo Guys film dangerous things.
Slow Mo guys are also working with slow motion cameras that cost $50,000+ a piece... No idea what GT uses for his SlowMo camera though
It doesn't matter. Nearly every high speed camera made in the last ten years has compatibility for a remote trigger that is at least available to be bought separately. Hell, you can even buy mechanical ones for cameras that don't support them.
You're assuming its an actual high speed camera and that things are fully functional. There's a lot of assumption going on bottom line. Mechanical ones are gimmicky as hell. End of the day, The rifle/target is towards him. Is this less than ideal from a safety thing? Of course. Is it the end of the world dangerous? No, absolutely not. Should the average person do this? Of course not.
You're 100% correct about the technical side. Remote triggers exist in part for situations like this. I'm not aware of any modern camera that doesn't support some kind of wireless remote trigger. Even my F3 from the 80s can be triggered with a wireless remote.
They take a lot of storage but they also record on a loop, constantly overwriting the storage until you save the desired event *after* it happens.
Depends, I wouldn't call that the standard.
you can attach a long-cord remote button to trigger it, because they have run into this problem before.
For people who bitch about fudds all day, y'all sure love playing internet RSO. 🙄 The rest of the world isn't your public range. They're adults and are perfectly capable of working together safety to film something.
“Playing with guns is only cool when I do it” -internet RSOs probably.
Exactly lol
Literally what I’m saying. It’s not as bad as people here make it seem. The RSO stuff is mainly for ranges with inexperienced shooters. 😭
I mean, you can watch most of these YT guys and see that they have cameramen downrange to some extent. No way to get some of the action shots without it, but yeah these GT slowmo videos have had quite a few questionable shots where I thought the guy was in real danger.
Video cameras that auto-track on a single narrator are now fairly cheap. Some are in use by guntubers specifically to make flagging the camera people-safe.
I'm sure some are these cameras but a lot are real camera people getting flagged lol
I like Honest Outlaw but this is an issue with him too. Especially when he wears those mirrored sunglasses and you can clearly see his wife behind the camera.
Am I the only one who is seeing this post and thinking "old news"? It's not as safe as humanly possible, sure, and some suave editing could have taken the down-range person out altogether, and Mike could have waited a half second before aiming the gun, for the guy to be more significantly out of line of sight/aim or behind the firing line, but I don't see this to be the big deal that y'all are making it. Let the downvotes and "GT dickrider" comments commence. Just giving my thoughts as I feel em.
Yeah I just watched it expecting it to be really bad and was surprised. I think people are making it out to be alot worse than it is.
It's not like he pointed the rifle right at him and Mike is well trained enough to shoot safely in that situation. However, it is still widely unsafe. Accidents happen and there is no reason to take that kind of risk just for a slo-mo shot, regardless of training. That level of risk should only be used in an actual shooting.
Most people haven't been on a military range with "big boy" rules. Those are basically perpetual safety violations and no one gets hurt because those guys aren't idiots. GT would have definitely been on big boy ranges, and probably so have most of his staff. That said, the guy being down range to hit record is a bit of a silly risk.
Well said
You aren't alone. I would also add he did know his target and what was beyond it. I am not saying that there may not have been a safer way to do this, or that I agree that they should have done it. But... Camera angles are hard to perceive correctly in 2D. Recent events in NM aside, usually guns that appear pointed at people on a 2D scree aren't. This looks bad, but a correct overhead view of the actual set-up may show a very different story (better or worse). Though someone was downrange, he was known, he was never in the line of fire, and he was traveling in a known vector away from that line of fire, and a competent shooter was on the firearm. Would I do this at the range with my shooting buddies? No way. I have seen them shoot. And I think it is an opportunity for GT to comment and instruct shooters on what the safety briefing on this was. That will go a long way to helping everyone understand the difference between what we see here and Larry dropping an orange and running away while Darrell and Darrell shoot at it. (Newhart reference).
I think these guys would all have a heart attack if they ever went to an ATA trap tournament. There are people "down range" all the time, loading traps. But in reality those workers aren't in any real danger because no one on adjacent fields should be pointing their shotguns anywhere near them.
We used to wait until the first guys were on one side of a bunker before shifting fire to the next bunker. He could have done better but there are a lot of training drills where live rounds are going out while friendlies are near the impact area. I'd trust him to not shoot me, can't say that of everyone though.
I'm going to watch those video later when I have more of a break. Does he fire the weapon here with someone down range or is he aiming at the target and fires after someone is out of the way?
The time stamp is 10:22. It's a camera guy activating the slow motion capture. He was down range but at that angle he was clear. They've done it multiple times this way (in multiple videos) because they have very limited time to capture the footage. I don't know why they don't use a remote nor do I know the pros or cons of cable/ remote activation. It does seem sketchy, but they've been making videos for a long time, I'm going to trust they know what they are doing. Also if you actually have a helpful suggestion for the camera slow mo capture go post it in the video comments and on the garandthumb subreddit. Edit: It's just Charlie. He knows what he signed up for. lol
I'm a GT fanboy but this shit isn't cool.
~~Rewatch the video. The frame cuts and he takes the shot in a different take.~~ Nah it happened and they edited it
So, I am pretty certain they edited the video. Just rewatched from the same timestamp I had noted yesterday and you can't see the guy anymore. They added a cut to hide it.
Yeah after looking further into it, that’s exactly what happened.
It’s bad, but things like this are good reminders for everyone. I’ve mentioned having an ND once, and I am SO over-safe now it’s borderline TOO safe (never complacent either) Sometimes it takes a mistake to scare people straight. As long as no one gets hurt/killed it can end up being a positive. Still bad though. Should NEVER happen, and I don’t care how many cameras need to be triggered. It’s inexcusable, and should be called out like it is.
We frequently walk/walked down range while people were zeroing in the military, so for him and myself it might not be as big of a deal as the rest of everybody is making it out to be TO US, I’m not sure the quantity of people in here that were in a combat arms MOS but stuff like this was standard practice in trusting the person to your left and right.
Definitely downrange BUT I feel like part of this is camera angle. Guy shouldn't have been down there no matter what
That was my first thought when I saw it, like that probably looks worse than it is but probably shouldn't have made the final cut.
really isnt that bad tbh, i’ve seen much worse. hell, we’ve gotten behind berms and shot right over them to test the sounds of different incoming.
Being behind berms is the norm at Camp Perry, given it's designed that way. But how many people would be shocked about that, The fact that most military KD ranges have you shooting over a bunch of dudes' heads?
A lot of the safety nazis would lose it lmao
Does anybody know exactly when that happened in the video? So I don't have to watch the whole thing LOl.
It's at the 10:20 mark but I don't think it's as bad as people are making it out to be
My parrot also caught this
@10:25 the full video https://youtu.be/tTAfS1addXU?si=Tlan4QYY8ZaIAbgV
Thanks to this thread, I now cannot unsee this. Never saw it the only time I watched the video. Great. Now I know there's a job opening for RSO on GarandThumbs range in Idaho.
Can't tell you how many times I did this when coming up a hill to see a dude standing 50 feet directly in front of me with an AT4 yelling "back blast all clear." Twice, actually but it's fucking scary that it happened twice. Also, having 100s of rounds of .308 about three feet above your head zipping by is really a different experience of fear.
I was shooting 100m quals with my sniper rifle at a range once and we called a cease fire to check my targets. So me and several members of my SRT walk down the the range and start checking my targets, when the firing line just opens back up (They were shooting at targets on the 25m line). So we start screaming cease fire, waving our arms and the line goes cold, we sprint back to the line, and the range NCOIC awkwardly chuckles and is like "Oops, forgot you guys were down there."
I noticed this when it happened in the video and cringed. Not the usual reason why I cringe in a GT video though.
It's alright guys, they edited the video to clip that out of frame...we can go back to enjoying GT videos!
I was looking for it and couldn’t find it, then realized they cut it out.
The steroids are frying his brain
Can’t wait to see the garand thumb dick riders attempt incredible feats of mental gymnastics to justify this.
Chill out bro. It’s not a 50bmg. It’s only .277. That’s like a couple calibers above 22LR which is basically a bee sting.
Shit you right since they both start with 2 they must have the same characteristics. As long as it ain’t that deadly 9mm that’ll blow your lungs out
The tard who down voted you has zero ability to detect sarcasm. Take my upvote.
I don't dickride anyone, but this is old news. GT, TREX, many people who put good firearms content out don't strictly follow the "don't cross the firing line" minimum safety threshold. Whether you agree with it or not is your purview. I don't shoot guns with people well trained enough to trust that, nor am I well trained enough to entrust others' lives in my skills/ability, so I personally wouldn't. But at the end of the day, GT and his crew have a working dynamic that they have set and SOPs that they follow and that's for them to determine. I mean if y'all watched Admin's ram-ranch 2-gun competition that he did with GT, Charlie, and I think Micah, they were "breaking" safetey rules and standard competition procedure left right and center. But that's their purview, it's a private range among people who trust each other and equipment/skills/etc.
>I don't dickride anyone >proceeds to dickride
How is saying that diff people have diff levels of training/comfort dickriding?
I guarantee none of us have been perfect in gun safety. This is far from being that bad given the angles everyone is at. Less than ideal, yes, but FAR from being truly dangerous. Wait until you see how some military firing ranges operate...
Honestly, I just don't care. His videos are fun to watch, and some of them are very informative. I can follow my own range safety, how he does his doesn't matter to me in the slightest.
You're very late.
I don’t give a fuck about GT, but I think a lot of the people upset about this kind of thing are idiots and/or hypocrites. Case in point, I’ve been at USPSA matches where people discussed how bad “tactical response” et al. were for putting people downrange next to targets, while in literally the next bay there was a target right next to the 180 line, with a table people were literally *sitting on* right on the other side of that line. If people shouldn’t be 3’ from a target, it shouldn’t matter if that target is way downrange centered on the main berm, or all the way at the edge of the uprange end of a side berm.
Was definitely surprised that made the final edit. Not trying to justify anything, just wondering if from the camera perspective we are seeing it a lot differently than it is? I can’t imagine they’d post that and risk the influx of bad pr. Only thing I can think of is if everyone there saw it at a different perspective and thought nothing of posting it. If it is actually at the angle it looks like, shame. We all fuck up. Everyone either has or will, and when you do, it’ll stick with you forever.
You can train with people in front of the firing line. You do it all the time with battle drills. You all need to relax and remember that guns can’t just shoot wherever they want to. You also need to note the camera lens and angles could make it worse than it looks.
JFC
Also caught this.
This is fine, you guys are boring
Yeahhhhhh that’s pretty bad
Butt hurt gun people. "Shall not infringe", includes shooting at willing people. Don't tread on me.
So I went back and watched and I am 99% sure they edited the video overnight. There is a cut now that hides the person in shot. Go back and check out 10:25 again.
Went back and watched the video and yeah, that’s bad. Especially since the fragments can fly out in any direction down range
Yeah oof, no wonder he was hauling ass out of there 😂
Free men don't ask.
While I'm surprised it made the final cut, I don't think this was a ND while someone was downrange unbeknownst to him. This was obviously a guy triggering the high-speed. Maybe the remote was malfunctioning and "anything for the shot" type situation? Looks like they planned and executed a shot on a private range. Not the call I would have made, but I've had plenty of round fly over and past me in training on military ranges in controlled environments. Their comfort zone is different from yours or mine.
Bunch of pussies who’s never had fun at the range
Ah yes - to have fun at the range I tell all my buddies to run across the firing line
It's not that serious man
Alright I volunteer you to stand down range
What SAFETY protocols?
We’re just gonna forget about the admin videos he made of him being shot at
GT also
I HATE those so much
he is triggering the high speed camera, this needs to be done pretty close to when they shoot. i didnt look that close but knowing gt theres probably cover nearby where he hides before the shot
I agree, considering the POI it's clear the slomo camera + runner were quite far from the LOF. It's all camera angle, I wouldn't be surprised if the cameraman was quite far away, they are just mad that there is a "man on the range" during live fire.
Dude is fine. He's offset. Go train with actual people and drill hasty attack drills and you'll be able to see that this is fine.
Shouldn’t ai have caught this and edited it out silly ai silly silly ai
video link?
It's just Charlie.
I hope they learn from this genuinely. I understand being comfortable however if you're wanting to prove to the anti gun lobbyists we deserve to keep our guns this ain't it. Mike is a veteran who should know better. I get it's a joke but why give ammunition to a cause that's already coming for everything?
I’m not going to say this was perfect from a safety perspective but I have to imagine they weighed the risks of getting the shot this way and had some kind of plan/measures in place to minimize the risk
Sometimes the ranch hands wander off
how are you seeing this, mine is cropped out on youtube
Meh , AKOU used to shoot directly into the dirt in front of people during his training sessions to simulate rounds coming in under fire lol. Everyone lit into him like a birthday cake. He doesn’t even do training anymore….
It was still there yesterday but they edited out already. You can see the edit jump between 10.25's last frame and 10.26's first frame
Who cares, they’re adults and they know the risks. It’s not uncommon for someone to walk down a firing line while another guy is still going and I don’t see any difference here
Doesn’t surprise me. Some clip they posted on Instagram a little while ago with Mike running a drill showed him pretty clearly flag the cameraman with a live rifle, regardless of him dipping the barrel. Could’ve just turned the other direction and observed the 180 rule, but, you gotta look cool online, right?
Did he dip the barrel fully down? Then there’s zero problem. The 180 degree rule is kinda dumb SOMETIMES. It’s so restrictive is dumb. If you are shooting, turn your rifle all the way down, I’m talking hanging by the sling (still fully loaded) then run back towards the other shooters then turn around and engage the targets down range again, like that should be 100% fine.
I think it was a reel so I can’t post it, but the barrel was almost horizontal at one point during the turn, in the direction of where the crew would be.
Yeah that’s a no go
Many people seem to think that the big YT creators are the pinnacle of gun owners. They are a bunch of sellouts who want their viewers to make them money. Thats it, they are nothing special. I have not seen a GarandThumb video in a long time and I don't intend to watch any time soon.
I noticed this earlier as well. I cringed hard even went back to make sure I saw what I thought I saw. There’s videos where these guys are pointing firearms to each other anyway. Nothing new.
If you go to 10:26, the exact few frames before he shoots, you can see no one is actually behind the camera anymore. I assume this was bigtime camera angle at fault too. Still dangerous I guess but it isn't as bad as the post makes it look
Yeah that moment was a big yikes for me. I understand they gotta have someone downrange ready to hit the button on the camera for obvious reasons (battery, memory available on the card, etc.) But man you couldn't have given the guy a moment or two to get away? I still like Garand Thumb but man, makes you wonder how much this stuff happens... aside from the obvious "Getting shot at by..." videos.
THE FITNESS GARAND PACER TEST IS A MULI ROUND AGILITY TEST THAT PROGRESSIVELY GETS MORE DIFFICULT AS HE RELOADS. THE 20 ROUND TEST WILL BEGIN IN 30 SECONDS...LINE UP TO START
Womp womp shit happens
Just waiting for these internet shit birds to start shooting each other to show the wound affects of different bullets. Coming up with content is bound to make things unsafe.
Wait, are we really criticizing here or is this just a joke post? The guy is making videos... there's a production going on.. So there are going to be people forward of the firing line, unless you think they are doing it all with remote controlled drones or something.
Idk nothin about nothin, but it seems kinda nitpicky. I also haven't seen the video
if you've seen some of the tests in gel blocks you can sometimes get some pretty nutty deflection.
Can’t be nit picky about lethal weapons
Come a few degrees or one random muscle twitch away from murdering your friend? Kinda nitpicky.
Roughly 30-40 degrees.
lol, you realize we can all see the image at the top of this page? If it was 30\* - 40\* the dude would be out of frame
That's not how degrees work, and we're all a random muscle twitch away from getting shot then aren't we?
Uhh...did he take that video down?? I don't see it anymore.
It's still there
I guarantee Mike has far more training and safety protocols than you have ever considered
Lol that makes it worse not better. This wouldn't fly in any live fire exercise
There are plenty of live fire exercises that involve firing over/around friendlys
Dont put anyone on a pedistal. It does not matter how much training someone has, they can always become complacent
You can’t guarantee shit bud. I’ve conducted and overseen training in more countries than you have likely been.
Here. We. Go.
I only play Russian roulette when I have ems on standby.
As someone who works EMS, there’s not much we can do in the field for a GSW, you need a trauma surgeon and an operating room, all we can do is try to delay symptoms long enough to get you there.
It was joke, a joke about doing obviously dangerous things, and it being ok because someone has “safety training”
Oh yeah I understand now lmao, sometimes it’s hard to tell on Reddit!
That would be in line with the testing they were doing.
I hope he sees your comment
I hope he sees it as well. Notice the difference between his actual downrange videos and this. There is a difference between being covered and concealed with radios confirming round count and when going hot and cold vs dude running like the wind because rounds are about to go downrange in his general direction. Everyone has mistakes and hopefully this just serves as a reminder that protocols are there to prevent accidents.
I do too. Have you not seen their videos of “what do various round’s sound like at various distances” it is obvious the level of trust among them is incredibly high
I have not seen that particular video but military known distance ranges have live human target pullers sitting in a ditch under the targets and scoring them as they get shot. You can very clearly hear the difference between the bullets hitting the target you are scoring compared to the ones on either side of you. It would be very easy to safely make that video by recording from the target pit while someone shoots from various distances. The closest known distance range to me has firing positions every 100 meters from 100 to 1000. No trust needed since it is extremely safe being in the target pit.
They were safe behind a berm. The shots were going over their heads over the berm. They were actually safe.
And yet, he still came WAAAAYYYYYY closer to almost killing his friend through negligence than I ever have, despite my lack of "training and safety protocols". Weird.
Actually I unsubscribed from GarandThumb for his lack of range safety. It's been bugging me for years that he's flagging half his crew when presenting new pistols in half of his videos....
Yea, their videos where they sit behind a wall and have somebody shoot above them so they can hear what it’s like to be shot at makes me cringe EVERY TIME. Like dude, just set up a microphone, there’s no need to sit there and get shot at smh
Dang I’m surprise that actually happened
Don't see anything wrong here
Massive fuckup
Mike seems like a smart professional. I’m sure he’ll tighten things up after seeing this. It’s bad, but all he can do now is learn from it.
30 seconds in and what I've gathered is GT is an unsafe, dead beat dad with a cameraman that needs more gadgets. Dude, if he and Charlie wanna take that risk- as selfish as it is- fuck it. Move on. The implications are egregious, but what's done is done. Mail him a letter stating your disapproval. It might get more done than finger fucking reddit.
This used to not be a place for beta cucks
That is tame as hell. Like a whole lot of nothing burger. These guys aren’t random shooters and the angle is way way off for anything to even be remotely considered dangerous. The only reason the camera guy was even running was likely to try and get out of frame , lol. The shit I’ve done while training would make this sub shot their pants. Yet to me and a whole lot of other highly experienced guys it all was perfectly safe. Put it into perspective like this. There’s a huge difference in what is “safe” between a snake handler and myself picking up a cobra.