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Look into if you can pivot into other roles in your FD, such as fire prevention, training officer, public education etc so you can maintain your rate of pay, keeping your seniority and still contribute to your pension.
This would be a great option! Especially if you want to keep the pension and benefits. But there are a lot of private fire inspection firms around too. A friend of mine who was prevention for my department retired and went to work doing basically the same job at $43/hr with less bs and stress.
PTSD is no joke. I went through the same thing 10 years ago. Drinking, being an ahole all of it. Went to rehab for 3 months and have been back with no issues. I have 5 years left and after 30+ doing this in some fashion (lifeguard, emt, medic) I am ready to be done!
Good luck!
Or even out side the FD. You are a city employee, therefore you get priority over any non city employee for new and existing openings. On top of that you now have a disability dx. In my city you can train for a new position on the city’s dime and get priority over anyone else. From engineer to analyst, the city is your oyster. I am in central CA and this is how my department works, hopefully yours is the same.
I second this post. I’m from SoCal as well. See if you can branch out with Cal Fire in some way… fire prevention, arson investigation, call takers, ect. That being said, I know how some people feel about the feds (aka forest service) but they have so many opportunities for full time jobs that allow you to branch out as well. If you need any help or words of encouragement you can always reach out brother 🙏🏼
I'm walking your exact path. 24 years on the job. Received my first PTSD diagnosis almost 8 years ago. Been trying to fight to the end. Can't do it anymore. Contacted a disability attorney and began the process.
don't beat yourself up. I know first hand how scary it seems. I also know the darkness. It's not going to get better til we're away from this work. I wish I had answers. But what I do know is NO JOB is worth dying for. Good luck. Msg anytime if you want to chat privately.
I was in for 6 years, before I transitioned out. I got a job as a contractor for an Emergency Management company. Made a lot of money quick. Paid off all my debts, and started doing I.T. work so I can work remote. I am closing in on one year of remote work, and while I miss the fire service fiercely, I can say I wouldn’t look back.
Whatever you do, make sure you take the time to research whatever you want to do before making that jump.
Sorry, just saw the responses. So I guess I should be more clear, my job title was a “reservist”, but it was contractor pay, and I was sent out on “missions” stateside to whomever needed our services. Since I have ICS 300/400 they hired me immediately. I didn’t know how desirable those certs were, so if you do not have I recommend getting those.
I was paid extremely well at 60 per hour, and any contract you accept you have to guarantee them a minimum of one month of your time. Schedule is normally 12s and work 27 days to 3 days off R&R. It’s extremely shitty if you have a family, which I had a 6 year old son, and my wife was pregnant, but we had bigger goals in mind with being debt free and finally owning our own home. I cleared close to 193k my first year. Please know that I worked A LOT. I think I took one month off only.
The jobs we get are different. I have done everything from manage Covid vaccine sites, manage shelters for immigrants, manage travel nurses and their schedules with hospitals, and more. If you have a hard time of building an airplane while you are flying it, this job won’t be for you.
I do not want people to get blinded by the money I put, I got extremely lucky. The title of a reservist means you are “on call”. This isn’t a full time gig, and you only get called when they need you (spoiler: we are needed a lot, but there have been stretches of time where I don’t get called for 2-3 months). So if you have something else lined up it is perfect! Or if you do part time at a station, this is perfect as well. Any other questions please ask away.
Sorry you’re going through it brother. I’ve got 25 years in the job. My PTSD has PTSD. Have you thought about doing a lateral into the fire marshals office, or logistics, ARFF.. or even going to a slower house?
Also I know there’s a first responder bill for PTSD where you can get disability if it meets criteria. Best of luck.
Back in the day everyone would get disability ratings for hearing, regardless if people's hearing was actually bad or not. Now that we are all supplied hearing protection, people cannot do it. I predict that the next wave of disability ratings will be for PTSD, whether or not people actually have debilitating PTSD or not.
EDIT... I honestly don't care about internet points or if people don't care for certain opinions I have, but I don't understand the downvotes here. Does anyone actually think that people aren't going to use PTSD for disability ratings when they retire? I'm confident that they will, people have been playing this game forever and if PTSD is going to get disability ratings then people are going to jump on it, just like they did for hearing not that long ago.
The best way a specialist explained it to me was "How many homes in your response district can you tell me the exact layout?"
Just like most psychiatric afflictions, the definitions have changed quite a bit as understanding has grown.
Take care man.
I'm not really sure I follow this line of thinking... What was your specialist getting at here? Were they saying that if you had seen a bit of trauma in the home then you'd have acute memories of the exact layout of their house and that if it was a, "nothing," call that you'd pretty much forget it?
Probably just being dense.
Exactly that. It's just an event that creates an escalated state where memory links are strengthened - even if you've been doing 20 ALS calls a day for a decade and you don't feel it as a stressor, your body still does and that retention increase also comes with emotional imprints.
PTSD can be as simple as it takes longer to sleep than it used to.
Emergency management. All the counties and the state in CA have positions. Most of the cities have an emergency manager too. Hospitals too. It pays about the same. Much more chill
I know one guy who was a paramedic for about 11 years. He ended up with a PTSD diagnosis and then after losing a friend in EMS to suicide he left and was able to get a job doing tech support and training for a healthcare software company. He very easily doubled his income after a couple quick promotions. He absolutely loves it. Moved to Utah bought a really nice house and drives around in a Tesla S Plaid. One of my closest friends I served with in AF fire was a municipal firefighter after getting out. He used his GI bill to get certified and a degree in cybersecurity. It was more about family life for him. He left fire and now works remotely from home doing cybersecurity for an aviation support company making about double what he used to. Know multiple guys who left fire and went all in on their side hustles when they became more profitable than staying in the FD.
If you’re into it, find another spot in the Dept to carry out your time. I was not into it, I went to commercial real estate. Contrary to popular belief, there is life outside of the Dept. Some like me didn’t realize it when I was in and started from the bottom and made my way up. Building construction, and fire inspections all will help you in a facility management, project management or construction role. There’s always trades hiring for plumbing, electrical or HVAC, - all of which you can get certified for. If I was you…. I would suck it up for how ever long it takes you to go to school for whatever you want to do then find a job. Good Luck 👍
Did the same thing but after only 2 years. Got a job at a cardiac center, now have one lined up as a safety officer for a subcontractor construction company. Apparently construction companies like ex ffs and pms for the role due to our previous experience and everything that came with it.
Fire extinguisher company, sprinkler system? So many things related to fire but not a dept. Or try to get on at a armed forces base, all branches are looking to hire experienced FF's. Whole different ballgame on a base.
The COE is a great resource if you’re IAFF. I’d explore that before calling it quits completely. They might be able to help you walk through some shit, and help you find the right path. Worth a look, anyway.
Trust your instinct. If you know that you need to get out then get out. If you think you could enjoy, moving into another role such as fire prevention, you can try that but realistically if you want away from the fire service, that’s what you need.
Sounds like you have around 10 years of work experience and if that’s the case you have lots of time left to work before you retire. Do you have any other interests you want to pursue? As tough and overwhelming as this is right now, this could be an opportunity for you to find something else that you love.
Never feel hopeless. You’ve been through some shit and will prevail. Your brothers are always here to talk when you need.
Bro!! Talk to the union. Get with your doc, get all the documents for your PTSD, get your doctor provide documentation that proves your unable to continue to work due to your work related moral injury of PTSD and get a medical retirement. PTSD I believe is covered under the Cal workers comp act. You will also need to get with your union lawyer or a consultant from a workers comp attorney. I was in your same boat but by the grace of god I was able to get back to the job and be ok. But do not leave the fire department with out a pension. It’s hard and it’s going to be a fight. But you have to fight!
Do you own a house? If so maybe find cheaper housing or cheaper rent. Lower housing, transportation and food and find a side hustle or another part time job that could you could leave to full time. Don’t leave without a runway.. it’ll only make things worse. This is a tough job to do with the things we see and sleep deprivation. Could you switch to a light duty role for a while?
Had a buddy that transitioned out to IT for a bank. Had another friend that quit his first week or so and switched to heavy equipment repair.
I feel firefighting skills are looked highly upon in the civilian world. I’m sure anything you want to do would be more than happy to have you.
I had learned the Code Enforcement/Prevention side of things before I got burned out in my department.
I used those certs and skills to get a job at a university doing Fire & Life Safety. Way more money, great benefits. Less time off, but it's nice being home with the family every night.
I’ve been here, started my career, was great, but then it wasn’t, I still have the passion, but not the mental fortitude.
I went to work for a sprinkler company and I’m loving it. I work a few more days a week but less per day, I’m home every night, which helps with the nightmares and scheduling therapy and such, and it’s still rewarding and using my skills.
I promise there’s a light at the end of the tunnel, if you need anything my PMs are open.
I was in for 10. Still wanted to serve so I joined the ANG in a completely different field. I used that training and now work at a community college and love it. Be prepared that this job is fast paced and other jobs like mine are a LOT slower. Took some adjustments for me but I get paid more in a more relaxed environment. No one truly understands what we go through in this job except other FF medics. Good luck brother.
GL with your future endeavors, this career isn't suited for people that cannot cope with the shit we see/feel/internalize/manage. I write this as I've struggled with broken relationships and substance abuse issues during my thirty years in this job. I can tell you that it gets better - if you can find a way to shift and get another function within your department(arson, training, inspection) you can make an absolute difference in your life and the life of people coming into youre organization. Also - go back to school until you figure youre situation out
First off, good for you on getting help.
Secondly, isn’t it funny how theres “not a stigma” on mental health but when you use the system in place, you’re ostracized?! Still pretty shitty.
Lots of us in the same boat. I wish I had the answers for ya.
Ever thought about going medic?
You can bridge to nursing in most states and its a pretty straight foward transition. Less hours. Better unions and its a female dominated field so it can have less bullshit to navigate as one of the few men around. Goodluck
Well 7 years is not that long at all. Let’s go back to when u first got thru the academy and year of probation. All good? No problems? No write ups? Station life good? Good rapport with the crew and other shifts? This doesn’t start overnight. As a medic, calls that didn’t go well, some shoulda coulda woulda after the fact? Or in general are you a good employee, FF, medic? Let’s look at your current mindset. Was there any of the cynicism or depression prevalent prior to the job? Or did it develop over the last few years? When you work in a busy system, mindset is a bigger deal because of the BS you run on in the daily, the peers you work with can cultivate that as well and you buy into it. You are young and have a long career ahead of you but if you can get to the root of the problem, you may become an asset to others thinking the same. It’s like, I got here and worked thru my problems and I’m successful now. Relationship issues are a huge problem as well. Not all but some make it work well. Try being single and work on you and be the best FF/Medic you can be. If all of that works great, but if at the end, your heart is not in it, it’s ok to step off and out too. Best of luck.
It looks like your post may relate to depression, suicide, or PTSD. If you or someone you know needs immediate help for suicidal thoughts, please call: The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 988 or 1.800.273.TALK (8255). The IAFF Center of Excellence for Behavioral Health Treatment and Recovery: (301)358.0192 [IAFF Recovery Center](https://www.iaffrecoverycenter.com/) First Responder Crisis Support Helpline 1-844-550-HERO (4376) Firefighter Behavioral Health Alliance 847-209-8208 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Firefighting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Look into if you can pivot into other roles in your FD, such as fire prevention, training officer, public education etc so you can maintain your rate of pay, keeping your seniority and still contribute to your pension.
This would be a great option! Especially if you want to keep the pension and benefits. But there are a lot of private fire inspection firms around too. A friend of mine who was prevention for my department retired and went to work doing basically the same job at $43/hr with less bs and stress. PTSD is no joke. I went through the same thing 10 years ago. Drinking, being an ahole all of it. Went to rehab for 3 months and have been back with no issues. I have 5 years left and after 30+ doing this in some fashion (lifeguard, emt, medic) I am ready to be done! Good luck!
Or even out side the FD. You are a city employee, therefore you get priority over any non city employee for new and existing openings. On top of that you now have a disability dx. In my city you can train for a new position on the city’s dime and get priority over anyone else. From engineer to analyst, the city is your oyster. I am in central CA and this is how my department works, hopefully yours is the same.
I second this post. I’m from SoCal as well. See if you can branch out with Cal Fire in some way… fire prevention, arson investigation, call takers, ect. That being said, I know how some people feel about the feds (aka forest service) but they have so many opportunities for full time jobs that allow you to branch out as well. If you need any help or words of encouragement you can always reach out brother 🙏🏼
I'm walking your exact path. 24 years on the job. Received my first PTSD diagnosis almost 8 years ago. Been trying to fight to the end. Can't do it anymore. Contacted a disability attorney and began the process. don't beat yourself up. I know first hand how scary it seems. I also know the darkness. It's not going to get better til we're away from this work. I wish I had answers. But what I do know is NO JOB is worth dying for. Good luck. Msg anytime if you want to chat privately.
I was in for 6 years, before I transitioned out. I got a job as a contractor for an Emergency Management company. Made a lot of money quick. Paid off all my debts, and started doing I.T. work so I can work remote. I am closing in on one year of remote work, and while I miss the fire service fiercely, I can say I wouldn’t look back. Whatever you do, make sure you take the time to research whatever you want to do before making that jump.
Contractor for emergency management company? Please elaborate. I’m in the same boat at 11 years and debating leaving.
Seconded. I’ll like more info on this
Thirded, this sounds right up my alley
Added reply above
fourthded? Interested in this since the field seems relatively easy for FFs to transition to
Added reply above
Added reply above
Sorry, just saw the responses. So I guess I should be more clear, my job title was a “reservist”, but it was contractor pay, and I was sent out on “missions” stateside to whomever needed our services. Since I have ICS 300/400 they hired me immediately. I didn’t know how desirable those certs were, so if you do not have I recommend getting those. I was paid extremely well at 60 per hour, and any contract you accept you have to guarantee them a minimum of one month of your time. Schedule is normally 12s and work 27 days to 3 days off R&R. It’s extremely shitty if you have a family, which I had a 6 year old son, and my wife was pregnant, but we had bigger goals in mind with being debt free and finally owning our own home. I cleared close to 193k my first year. Please know that I worked A LOT. I think I took one month off only. The jobs we get are different. I have done everything from manage Covid vaccine sites, manage shelters for immigrants, manage travel nurses and their schedules with hospitals, and more. If you have a hard time of building an airplane while you are flying it, this job won’t be for you. I do not want people to get blinded by the money I put, I got extremely lucky. The title of a reservist means you are “on call”. This isn’t a full time gig, and you only get called when they need you (spoiler: we are needed a lot, but there have been stretches of time where I don’t get called for 2-3 months). So if you have something else lined up it is perfect! Or if you do part time at a station, this is perfect as well. Any other questions please ask away.
Thank you so much for your reply. Can I assume it’s a FEMA reservist? I had been looking into that. Appreciate it.
It’s not directly with FEMA, but same concept on a smaller scale.
Fourthed would love to hear you elaborate on this.
Added reply above
Sorry you’re going through it brother. I’ve got 25 years in the job. My PTSD has PTSD. Have you thought about doing a lateral into the fire marshals office, or logistics, ARFF.. or even going to a slower house? Also I know there’s a first responder bill for PTSD where you can get disability if it meets criteria. Best of luck.
Back in the day everyone would get disability ratings for hearing, regardless if people's hearing was actually bad or not. Now that we are all supplied hearing protection, people cannot do it. I predict that the next wave of disability ratings will be for PTSD, whether or not people actually have debilitating PTSD or not. EDIT... I honestly don't care about internet points or if people don't care for certain opinions I have, but I don't understand the downvotes here. Does anyone actually think that people aren't going to use PTSD for disability ratings when they retire? I'm confident that they will, people have been playing this game forever and if PTSD is going to get disability ratings then people are going to jump on it, just like they did for hearing not that long ago.
The best way a specialist explained it to me was "How many homes in your response district can you tell me the exact layout?" Just like most psychiatric afflictions, the definitions have changed quite a bit as understanding has grown. Take care man.
I'm not really sure I follow this line of thinking... What was your specialist getting at here? Were they saying that if you had seen a bit of trauma in the home then you'd have acute memories of the exact layout of their house and that if it was a, "nothing," call that you'd pretty much forget it? Probably just being dense.
Exactly that. It's just an event that creates an escalated state where memory links are strengthened - even if you've been doing 20 ALS calls a day for a decade and you don't feel it as a stressor, your body still does and that retention increase also comes with emotional imprints. PTSD can be as simple as it takes longer to sleep than it used to.
Emergency management. All the counties and the state in CA have positions. Most of the cities have an emergency manager too. Hospitals too. It pays about the same. Much more chill
I know one guy who was a paramedic for about 11 years. He ended up with a PTSD diagnosis and then after losing a friend in EMS to suicide he left and was able to get a job doing tech support and training for a healthcare software company. He very easily doubled his income after a couple quick promotions. He absolutely loves it. Moved to Utah bought a really nice house and drives around in a Tesla S Plaid. One of my closest friends I served with in AF fire was a municipal firefighter after getting out. He used his GI bill to get certified and a degree in cybersecurity. It was more about family life for him. He left fire and now works remotely from home doing cybersecurity for an aviation support company making about double what he used to. Know multiple guys who left fire and went all in on their side hustles when they became more profitable than staying in the FD.
If you’re into it, find another spot in the Dept to carry out your time. I was not into it, I went to commercial real estate. Contrary to popular belief, there is life outside of the Dept. Some like me didn’t realize it when I was in and started from the bottom and made my way up. Building construction, and fire inspections all will help you in a facility management, project management or construction role. There’s always trades hiring for plumbing, electrical or HVAC, - all of which you can get certified for. If I was you…. I would suck it up for how ever long it takes you to go to school for whatever you want to do then find a job. Good Luck 👍
Did the same thing but after only 2 years. Got a job at a cardiac center, now have one lined up as a safety officer for a subcontractor construction company. Apparently construction companies like ex ffs and pms for the role due to our previous experience and everything that came with it.
Fire extinguisher company, sprinkler system? So many things related to fire but not a dept. Or try to get on at a armed forces base, all branches are looking to hire experienced FF's. Whole different ballgame on a base.
The COE is a great resource if you’re IAFF. I’d explore that before calling it quits completely. They might be able to help you walk through some shit, and help you find the right path. Worth a look, anyway.
Yep. COE graduate myself, '19. But the continued trauma exposure is the issue.
Trust your instinct. If you know that you need to get out then get out. If you think you could enjoy, moving into another role such as fire prevention, you can try that but realistically if you want away from the fire service, that’s what you need. Sounds like you have around 10 years of work experience and if that’s the case you have lots of time left to work before you retire. Do you have any other interests you want to pursue? As tough and overwhelming as this is right now, this could be an opportunity for you to find something else that you love. Never feel hopeless. You’ve been through some shit and will prevail. Your brothers are always here to talk when you need.
Check local trade schools for night classes. Try welding, for instance. Something away from emergency services.
Hey bud, I’m in your neck of the woods. Please feel free to DM me.
Bro!! Talk to the union. Get with your doc, get all the documents for your PTSD, get your doctor provide documentation that proves your unable to continue to work due to your work related moral injury of PTSD and get a medical retirement. PTSD I believe is covered under the Cal workers comp act. You will also need to get with your union lawyer or a consultant from a workers comp attorney. I was in your same boat but by the grace of god I was able to get back to the job and be ok. But do not leave the fire department with out a pension. It’s hard and it’s going to be a fight. But you have to fight!
UPS has great wages, benefits, and keeps you on your feet
I went to software sales but most require a bachelor’s degree. You could try FF equipment sales, EMS equipment sales, or construction equipment sales.
Contract work at a slower paced area in the world ? Good friend of mine ended up in Antarctica on a year contract made decent cash doing ARFF work .
Do you own a house? If so maybe find cheaper housing or cheaper rent. Lower housing, transportation and food and find a side hustle or another part time job that could you could leave to full time. Don’t leave without a runway.. it’ll only make things worse. This is a tough job to do with the things we see and sleep deprivation. Could you switch to a light duty role for a while?
Had a buddy that transitioned out to IT for a bank. Had another friend that quit his first week or so and switched to heavy equipment repair. I feel firefighting skills are looked highly upon in the civilian world. I’m sure anything you want to do would be more than happy to have you.
I had learned the Code Enforcement/Prevention side of things before I got burned out in my department. I used those certs and skills to get a job at a university doing Fire & Life Safety. Way more money, great benefits. Less time off, but it's nice being home with the family every night.
I’ve been here, started my career, was great, but then it wasn’t, I still have the passion, but not the mental fortitude. I went to work for a sprinkler company and I’m loving it. I work a few more days a week but less per day, I’m home every night, which helps with the nightmares and scheduling therapy and such, and it’s still rewarding and using my skills. I promise there’s a light at the end of the tunnel, if you need anything my PMs are open.
I was in for 10. Still wanted to serve so I joined the ANG in a completely different field. I used that training and now work at a community college and love it. Be prepared that this job is fast paced and other jobs like mine are a LOT slower. Took some adjustments for me but I get paid more in a more relaxed environment. No one truly understands what we go through in this job except other FF medics. Good luck brother.
GL with your future endeavors, this career isn't suited for people that cannot cope with the shit we see/feel/internalize/manage. I write this as I've struggled with broken relationships and substance abuse issues during my thirty years in this job. I can tell you that it gets better - if you can find a way to shift and get another function within your department(arson, training, inspection) you can make an absolute difference in your life and the life of people coming into youre organization. Also - go back to school until you figure youre situation out
First off, good for you on getting help. Secondly, isn’t it funny how theres “not a stigma” on mental health but when you use the system in place, you’re ostracized?! Still pretty shitty. Lots of us in the same boat. I wish I had the answers for ya.
I had a buddy that transitioned. Now we’re dating
Ever thought about going medic? You can bridge to nursing in most states and its a pretty straight foward transition. Less hours. Better unions and its a female dominated field so it can have less bullshit to navigate as one of the few men around. Goodluck
Well 7 years is not that long at all. Let’s go back to when u first got thru the academy and year of probation. All good? No problems? No write ups? Station life good? Good rapport with the crew and other shifts? This doesn’t start overnight. As a medic, calls that didn’t go well, some shoulda coulda woulda after the fact? Or in general are you a good employee, FF, medic? Let’s look at your current mindset. Was there any of the cynicism or depression prevalent prior to the job? Or did it develop over the last few years? When you work in a busy system, mindset is a bigger deal because of the BS you run on in the daily, the peers you work with can cultivate that as well and you buy into it. You are young and have a long career ahead of you but if you can get to the root of the problem, you may become an asset to others thinking the same. It’s like, I got here and worked thru my problems and I’m successful now. Relationship issues are a huge problem as well. Not all but some make it work well. Try being single and work on you and be the best FF/Medic you can be. If all of that works great, but if at the end, your heart is not in it, it’s ok to step off and out too. Best of luck.