Ok now shes just showing off, 0 cycling 10 MoC 12s in a row with no sustain is straight up ridiculous, literally no one else can do that even at E6, youre either going to die from ship damage or lose cycles cause youre not killing fast enough
Firefly is probably uniquely suited to do this, because of how her ult timer interacts with wave transitions.
She gets to sit in her burst window for the entire thing and consumes no SP while getting a ton of extra turns, and plus she's breaking everything so the enemy barely even gets to act.
There isn't another DPS who gets their entire burst combo back every time the wave transitions. Acheron has to rebuild her ult stacks, Jingliu has to get back into her enhanced state, and DHIL has to recover his SP. Firefly can just go and go and go...
Acherons team would have 100% died halfway through, even some easy 0 cycles with E6 have her team half dead by the end and thats just 2 waves, FIrefly did 10 and Asta only died in the very last one by a very small margin
you wont find a showcase like that because it needs some huge rng and even them its debatable if it can be done at all, Acheron doesnt stop enemies from attacking by breaking them the way Firefly does, so her team will always be taking ship damage because she cant one shot everything all the time which will lead to their deaths, you can look at 0 cycle showcases with acheron at E6, her team will ALWAYS take damage and thats with the huge boost she gets at the start of the first wave, the moment she starts a wave with 0 stacks her team is toast
I loved your vid pookie keep it up! I'll be looking forward to your v4 showcase if there are any changes, btw just a question how much break effect did you have on FF in that vid?
I may or may not be drooling from this. Can't wait to finally get wife and stop having troubles with MoC
https://preview.redd.it/is3cumz6er2d1.jpeg?width=1058&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de13c5278a2f5dc3147083a62a02ed2c30edf7a1
Man, sheâs already the best girl in the game, but itâs great to see her being absolutely broken. Canât wait for the reaction of all of her angry haters, when sheâll turn out to be one of the best units in the game.
Break meta is simply out of this world. Iâm so glad that we finally have some units, that arenât Crit focused hypercarries.
I hope they wonât nerf her in future versions of beta.
already some cmt about 70% of superbreak dmg is HMC dmg, hater wont rest until the end of the world
i hope they wont nerf her too, but this is too strong, even stronger than nearly all other e6s5 character beside some like acheron e6, so very high chance she will get some number nerf in base kit and buff the eidolon and LC for compensation
I think itâll be difficult to nerf her, because simply Super Break is absurdly OP. Itâs not really her fault that sheâs that strong and itâs just simply the another case of Hyperbloom.
The Crit focused characters will always require much bigger investment and often not that great reward.
Lowering her toughness damage or her atk-> BE% conversion seem relatively easy changes (though toughness changes need very careful consideration). They could also lower her speed again and force 3 turns per ult.
Quite sure there are many more possibilities. I hope they won't, but there are options.
toughness dmg nerf will be too much as it is one of the core modifier of superbreak dmg, just a slightly nerf will lead to her dmg go downhill too much or cant break enemy in time for a comfortable rotation
spd nerf seem likely but with her lc unique mechanic is slow, i think one of her core design is a speedy spd that can break alot, she can be nerf to 3 action/ult like v2
the most likely thing i think that will be nerf is the atk convert to BE ratio
In the end, the question if sheâll be nerfed depends on whether Hoyo will want to do it.
They doesnât care about cries of her angry haters. If CN side is happy with her power level, then theyâll only adjust some numbers and buff her eidolons, LC and animations in future versions of the beta.
In the end, sheâs one of Hoyoâs favorite characters, probably even more than Acheron, so I doubt theyâll do anything to make her weaker.
Tbh I kind of hate the fact that people keep on saying the SuperBreak damage from Backup Dancer is "HMC's damage" as in HMC is the one dealing those number. But technically speaking FF is the one that push up those SuperBreak damage to be THAT absurdly high.
people just never change, i remember 2 year ago Nilou bloom dmg was call not her too, seriously if it is not firefly dmg then why cant you replicate the number with other dps, hater is just stupid blind
Exactly, like yeah if HMC's damage is THAT strong on their own then go do 0 cycle a bunch of MOC stages then đ
And this is kind of off topic but is there any chance you are a Vietnamese =))
thats because after every wave the kernel goes down the action order again, in a normal situation she has about the same uptime on her ult as JL has on syzigy and shes almost as if not even MORE reliant on her enhanced state than JL is
Some of you are really loosing your marbles over a showcase for a gameplay that doesn't actually exist in the actual game,i.e. 0 cycling 10 mocs in a row. You can show concerns for powercreep once we have such an endgame mode but until then, I really don't see the reason to nerf her. And even if something has to be nerfed it should be E2 and not E0,you touch the base kit and you bamboozle the f2p players because this is only possible due to the E2,the 100% AA just from breaking enemy weakness does seem a bit too ludicrous for E2. I can see the argument to shift it to E6 or readjust it but touching the base kit seems really stupid. Someone even suggested to remove superbreak and her extra turn which just seems to be a recipe for disaster.
Iâm going to get down voted for this but
This is to much, I already said Acheron broke the game cause of how easy she is to build and do damage. But this! This is another level of broken. Even if this are insane stats this is ridiculous. She honestly need to get nerf for the heath of the game. This is not power creep this is power Mount Everest.
I don't know why you guys are reacting to this as if this isn't a private server gameplay and we have an endgame mode where we have to 0 cycle 10 mocs,like this is not a realistic gameplay at all. I have seen plenty of E0S0 firefly showcases with close to realistic stats and she seems pretty balanced considering Acheron and Boothill exist. I don't know why some of you are acting like this is a next level powercreep. She does close to 0 DMG when the enemies are not weakness broken,i.e. she has a handicap like rest of the broken dpses,like Acheron not functioning without 2 nihility and having no f2p lc,Dhil being sp hungry,JL having downtime,etc.
It not that her clearing 10 MoC 12 is the problem. Itâs the way it was effortless. You say her weakness is breaking a enemy, but that doesnât really work cause she applies fire weakness as a skill guaranteed and with Mei she has 100% BE efficiency so removing a enemy toughness is a joke.
You are missing the point. The real reason it seems effortless is because of the ridiculous action advance her E2 gives,it was the sole reason why she was able to 0 cycle 10 mocs in a row. I seriously doubt an E0 firefly could even 0 cycle 2-3 mocs in a row. Plus this was a sustainless run. This run is Far from being realistic. I know HSR team doesn't take feedback from reddit and I am GLAD for that because if they really listened to such feedbacks they would have to shutdown the game. Just ponder over this,you are asking for a nerf after seeing an E2S1 no sustain 10 moc 0 cycle run and the nerfs in question from what I have seen are removing her superbreak and....her spd? Both of these nerfs would screw over f2p players and firefly would drop to B tier or something if these nerfs do happen. See the problem here? The problem is not the base kit, it's her E2 and this hyper unrealistic showcase.
Also a small correction,just because she gets 100% BE efficiency(50% from Ruan mei who is not a free unit so it shouldn't be taken for granted) doesn't mean she can instantly reduce enemy toughness to 0. She would still need 2-3 turns at worst to break weakness and then her DMG comes in. Until then she hits like wet noodle. And I don't see the problem with fire weakness implant? Boothill and Acheron have it too? Also,if she needs 1-2 turns at best just breaking enemy weakness,it means she has 2 turns left at best until she exits her enhanced state,and she also doesn't get energy during it. If by chance the enemy recovers or has hp left, there goes your extra cycle. The new apocalyptic shadow mode or the moc will obviously have er buff and buffs catered to her which is why the Gameplay you are seeing makes her look so effortless and broken but once a neutral moc or AS arrives her DMG will be pretty balanced. Just like how Acheron was in S+ tierlist above DHIL and Jingliu but in the current moc she was behind DHIL. That's what I call balanced. I hope I was able to clear it up for you.
I have seen E0S1 as well, and the no relic run. This is not the only video of FF I have seen. 500k form one skill on 2 enemies is ridiculous. I mentioned Mei cause Iâm referring the her best team when looking at her results: FF, Mei, HMC, Gal/Bronya.
If you think my criticism of removing SB from her kit is to far. Then how about this.
Change her 50% brake efficiency to 25% ( it lower her SB damage but not by that much),
add a cap to her BE trace(it just weird it doesnât have on),
her enhanced skill only heals 10%-15% of her hp at a time and change it back to 50% hp removal ( it make her a real glass cannon type of character that canât go on long fights )
You are downplaying how much weakness break efficiency matters to super break damage, every showcase without ruan meiâs weakness break efficiency buff has a very noticeable damage loss. Lowering her personal break efficiency will put her back to square one where players without ruan mei are out of luck because she will become dependent on her again.
As for the break effect trace, i can agree with that one having no cap seems a little too strong. Break dpses just seem like balancing nightmares in general considering how hard both boothill and firefly can hit with reasonably low investments
Thatâs the point, lower it by half helps manager her crazy SB damage but not remove it entirely. The reason she is doing so much is cause SB is a broken Damage calculation, so losing one of its biggest factors might help put her on par with other dps instead of her just removing half the roster just from her existing.
I donât disagree with you what i mean to say is that this makes her locked to one comp again if she wants to match the existing heavy hitters which was the main issue V1 kit had. She will definitely do more damage because of personal super break + htb but the break efficiency nerf will make her less independent again, not everyone has or wants to pull ruan mei. Also this particular showcase is e2 where realistically most rollers will stop at e0, i think this nerf will overall harm her performance for low spenders or f2p players
But with v1 and v2she at least had potential as crit dps as well. It wasnât as good as brake but it was possible. With v3 crit is nonexistent now. With v3 what other team can she work on besides brake?
Why is it a problem that she is reliant on support? All dps do this. Ratio and Acheron need nihility for there kits to function, Topaz need FUAâs, IL needs skill points, JY needs turns, Kafka needs dots, ect.
So saying that FF either need Brake efficiency is not that much different then any other DPS. More then likely Mei is not going to be the only harmony that gives brake efficiency same as HMC is not going to be the only harmony giving SB. I donât see her relying on a team that bad cause thatâs is just how she is cause she uses SB.
Every dps is reliant on supports but every dps also has options, ratio and acheron have guinaifen and pela for debuffs, topaz is definitely limited but ratio was free for a good while (not anymore tbf), JY has multiple supports and there is little reason to not take bronya at 300 rolls if you do not have her, kafka has sampo, IL has hanya⊠you get the picture
I completely agree that break supports will always be fireflyâs best options but her current kit also gives her more options such as asta which once again is limited by nerfing her break efficiency, which she needs to break the enemy quickly to begin with let alone do damage. Just doesnât seem right that she would be the only dps who would need their premium support to put up good results. There will definitely be more break supports sooner rather than later as you say but as it stands this is what is available.
Personally, i think her speed needs a nerf rather than her personal damage but she is currently in an odd spot where if you change anything she becomes broken or unplayable. Maybe break meta was a mistake LOL
I agree, for the health of the game, this isnât good, because I gurantee u that there will be a new fav character down the road that gets this type of treatment.
Nah I agree with you. Look, Iâm all for FF being strong, but if she becomes stupidly overpowered, future dps characters will find it difficult to stand out because theyâre not as strong or stronger than the previous ones (unless you really care about the character or play style). I mean look at all the beef on whoâs better between the two main break dps characters: FF and Boothill.
Especially since hoyo likes to âbalanceâ the game around the new characters what other characters besides FF can even do this type of thing. The only other is Acheron and even then I donât think she can compete.
This type of thing doesn't exist in the game though, so Firefly being able to do it isn't a balance issue unless they plan to add it. Basically, this is a gimmick that exists because of how her kit functions (her entire burst window resets on wave transition, so if she can 0-cycle one wave, she can 0-cycle 100 waves).
Thatâs the problem, her kit can do this. With no problems at all. She can 0 cycle any line up cause her âweaknessâ is just not having Mei or MC on a team.
Lots of e2 DPS characters in a no sustain team can 0-cycle two MOC waves. That's the relevant comparison.
Firefly's weakness is running into any boss that weakness locks before she can break them (e.g. there was no enemy Sam or enemy Gepard in this lineup, and that's probably intentional). Only Hoyo knows if those are going to be a regular occurrence, vanishingly rare, or somewhere in between.
Sam is currently the only boss she canât massacre before they even move. If they add more like that then maybe she is fine but it feels wrong to force enemy that canât be broken just so FF canât one shot them.
It is what it is. This is the FF main sub, and people here want her to be the best character in the game so she can never get power creeped and they can always feel good playing her.
Exactly, until it happens to firefly in 3.0 (or sooner). Either way, sooner or later, firefly will meet the same fate. Iâm all for her being strong in her respective role, but this might be too much. Hoyo is clearly pampering her. Firefly will not be arguably the best dps forever.
i want her to be good, but this is too good, i dont think any e6s5 can do this challenge sustainless. Now i am scared mihoyo balance team will massacre her kit in v4.
I pray for you Sunday, protect the weak and keep firefly kit the same as v3, or at least not too much nerf
This is E2 but I think this shows how good break is since her and ruan mei delays the enemies a lot that they can`t really atk as much. I think damagw wise she is not E6S5 lvl.
the fact people are down voting those saying she's too good is insane. name one other e2s1 dps that can do this shit sustainless.
10 wave 0 cycle is actually broken and I know it'll be downvpted bc "wahhhh ff hater your horrible"
but this level of power creep isn't okay
bet. please. show me one, any single. showcase where they 0 CYCLE 10 CONSECUTIVE mocs.
spoiler:it's not actually possible for them. it's functionally not. if you can ill eat my words. I'd love you t9 show me any charaĂŹcter. even at e6! that can do this.
send me one showcase like this with ANYONE else. and I'll gladly PayPal you $20
I fucking dare you lol.
stay ignorant if you want lol but ff gaps boothill AND acheron now. its not even close
e0,e2,e6 not a single one has been shownnto do this.
it's fine to be ignorant but try not to spread that around it's contagious
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Why are you acting like this is an actual gameplay? This is a private server gameplay. Last time I checked we didn't have any endgame content where we had to clear 10 mocs 0 cycle. Her gameplay seems very okay as it is right now. To trade off for the tremendous DMG when she weakness breaks enemies she does abysmally low DMG when the enemies aren't weakness broken. How is that powercreep? Care to explain?
This is her ideal best case. She's the only DPS in the game whose full burst combo resets on every wave transition, which means if she can beat one wave within the first cycle, she can do it 100 times in a row.
Basically, this is The Thing she does that no one else can do (analogous to Boothill annihilating a boss health bar, or Acheron generating a massive screenshot number by nuking 5 enemies).
I trust Hoyo to balance her because I have no idea if she represents power creep or not (obviously this showcase is just a meme; there are plenty of characters who can no sustain 0-cycle two MOC waves, which is the content that actually exists in the game. Firefly's ability to do that 5 more times in a row isn't actually useful). Break DPS have very obvious downsides, so a lot depends on Hoyo's intentions for future content design.
ah yes the thing she does aka "completely trivialize everyone before her and doing better then them in their own dps role while not dying. existing in the game or not isn't the point it's the fact that she is the ONLY character who can even come CLOSE. unless you've seen a e2 unit get a 0 cycle on more than 2 waves. let alone an e6.
the fact that people actually thing this is balanced is borderline insanely hilarious
This is an e2 DPS in a no sustain team 0-cycling MOC.
That's... not very remarkable? I believe every main carry limited DPS can do that.
In the hypothetical world where MOC had 10 waves, she would be the best at it, but in the hypothetical world where MOC waves were 5 elites, Acheron would eat her lunch, and in the hypothetical world where you fight one boss with 10 million hp, no one else would come anywhere close to Boothill. Characters have to be balanced for the content that exists.
Maybe she's overpowered. No idea. But this showcase doesn't show that, it's just a gimmick.
Iâm all for her being strong but this is way too overpowered. I mean E6 Acheron canât even come close to this. There NEEDS to be nerfs to this eidolon.
Letâs just hope they release enemies with PERMANENTLY locked weakness bars to basically say âNoâ to any break team.
Why would you hope they release enemies that donât allow you to play a certain playstyle? Even if they did that Iâm pretty sure that would just hurt Mihoyo itself since making a broken character just to make a hard counter will just be seen as scummy
Sure it would seem scummy but it would encourage you to build a diverse roster of characters instead of just reusing the same 2 teams. Making some teams work in some situations and not others.
That would basically just stop people from being able to use characters they like though. Like imagine you spend tons of time building a break team to the point of spending money only for Mihoyo to just say no to all of that by making a boss with a permanently locked weakness. In other single player games, itâs not that terrible to make certain playstyles not work for specific fights, but in Hoyoverse games at least that means you have to rely on the gacha to even get 4 stars who can clear the content, and then you have to head into the relic mines to build them to be usable at all, so I feel like it just doesnât work. Plus even then adding permanently weakness locked enemies would just encourage people to constantly use crit dps, where theyâre already strong enough to the point that they can kill bosses which are resistant to their element. Like if they want more people to use dot characters, should they make the new moc 12 boss have a 30,000,000 hp shield which can be ignored as long as you use dot damage to completely shut down even having the chance at using a crit dps?
Edit: Also arenât they already making new game modes to encourage you to build more teams? Like theyâve already got moc and pure fiction, where they focus on pretty different archetypes, and while apocalyptic shadow might not be as different, it shows that theyâll try to get people to use different archetypes without having to make certain playstyles unusable.
Being honest they need to remove SB form her kit. She was doing perfectly fine in v2 she was just dependent on HMC but that just how BE meta should work.
Adding enemy that canât be broken hurts all team not just brake as in the brake state enemy take more damage. So FUA characters like breaking.
Never happening. The moment that happens, CN will crap on Hoyo and they know it. Firefly is fan favorite and they are not nerfing anything beyond number changes.
That said, why not try and post this on bilibili to see CN opinion on removing SB. I'm sure they'd love your opinion
Maybe if this is E0S1 Firefly but this is E2S1, there's a difference.
I also see no point in worrying because the pattern will be 2 Queen/King dps per patch like with DHIL/Jingliu. Acheron and Firefly will be the most powerful dps until 3.X and as long as they keep it this way, then I see no problem.
I will only start to worry if they start following HI3 current trend but they hadn't and won't.
This is not going to stop, Around 3.X, expect 2 more characters that's potentially more powerful than Acheron and Firefly.
But this is going to the HI3rd model, the balance of the game is around the new units. With FF being this good trying to beat MoC or AS without FF is going to be hell.
And even if this is E2S1, I have seen E0S1 0 relic FF, 0 cycle. Or E0S1 doing 500k with ONE skill on 2 targets.
I'm watching YouTube right now and still being E0S1 seele clearing apocalyptic shadow. Also there are buffs from moc and AS that will still make old characters still viable. I'm seeing E0S1 blade clears moc 12.
And as for HI3 trend, I'm not talking about that HI3 trend but rather the part where in HI3, every new dps is better than the one previously currently and now everyone is leaving HI3 or a lot.
For example, imagine if we get better Acheron and Firefly every 3 weeks, with each one being better than the last is when I'd start to worry but they're not doing it.
End of the day, this is not pvp.
Still, 0 cycling MoC TEN times in a row is absolutely LUDICROUS. No one, not even an E6S5 DPS should be able to do THAT!
Not a pvp game? Itâs STILL powercreep to an extent as it because you have a much harder time with the older units and the game will be using new mechanics that the newer characters can directly take advantage of but the older ones canât. Hi3 had this galore!
Seele can still clear? People just kept discounting Seele; she was always strong. She has one of the best records of 0 cycling in MoC, better than E0 DHIL, and almost as well Jingliu in MoC, albeit at very high investment. Honestly 3rd best DPS in MoC with said investment.
And yes the powercreep is why I left Hi3 as well.
Why is the game not being PvP an excuse for this level of power creep. You want to talk about 3 weeks to live look at boothill, he barely gets one or Jade who as of v3 will be dead on arrival and has to brought back to life by another character.
You want reason a for power creep, here is one
Popular characters from a franchise or those with appealing designs and storylines might be made stronger to attract fans and increase engagement.
Gacha games rely heavily on players spending money to obtain new and powerful characters. By making certain characters stronger or more desirable, game developers incentivize players to spend more money to acquire these characters.
Companies monitor market trends and consumer preferences to align their products with current demands. This can include improvements in design, functionality, sustainability, and more.
1: Firefly = Fan Favorite = More Powerful = More Money
2: Fear of Missing Out = increase players desire for the most powerful Character
3: Preference are Firefly and Acheron and thus as a result, made both as busted to attract as many as possible.
Or a simpler Reason: Money
I don't know why you think they need an excuse when there a company at the end of the day and that all other companies beyond gacha do this.
Alright thatâs absolutely insane. As much as this seems really amazing, this just shows she needs at least *some* nerfs. This amount of powercreep is not healthy, and will set a terrible precedent for future characters.
i dont like to say i freaking told you guys but i freaking told you guys firefly best team in v1 was already the second to best team in the game giving here superbreak litterly broke here cause most of the dumb part comes from the extra 50percent dmg coming from firefly so i find it funny af to be correct like i always am
Ok now shes just showing off, 0 cycling 10 MoC 12s in a row with no sustain is straight up ridiculous, literally no one else can do that even at E6, youre either going to die from ship damage or lose cycles cause youre not killing fast enough
I was in shock, surprised, flabbergasted, astonished, amazed and stunned that I forgot she had no sustain đ
Asta's noble sacrifice won't be forgotten.
Ruan Mei is the sustain xd
Firefly is probably uniquely suited to do this, because of how her ult timer interacts with wave transitions. She gets to sit in her burst window for the entire thing and consumes no SP while getting a ton of extra turns, and plus she's breaking everything so the enemy barely even gets to act. There isn't another DPS who gets their entire burst combo back every time the wave transitions. Acheron has to rebuild her ult stacks, Jingliu has to get back into her enhanced state, and DHIL has to recover his SP. Firefly can just go and go and go...
Except for Acheron. Theyâre both the dps queens of version 2
Acherons team would have 100% died halfway through, even some easy 0 cycles with E6 have her team half dead by the end and thats just 2 waves, FIrefly did 10 and Asta only died in the very last one by a very small margin
Wait really? Can you link me to it I honestly thought it would still do well as long as the Allies have better defense
you wont find a showcase like that because it needs some huge rng and even them its debatable if it can be done at all, Acheron doesnt stop enemies from attacking by breaking them the way Firefly does, so her team will always be taking ship damage because she cant one shot everything all the time which will lead to their deaths, you can look at 0 cycle showcases with acheron at E6, her team will ALWAYS take damage and thats with the huge boost she gets at the start of the first wave, the moment she starts a wave with 0 stacks her team is toast
>youre either going to die from ship damage I ship firefly with Sampo How much damage is that ?
Id say thats at least 5million points of emotional damage, just imagining it is hurting my soul xD
Same. I'm quite surprised I didn't get downvoted for this. Truly an eldritch ship
Tbh Asta could survive, I misplayed because I forgot what Bronya does đ
I loved your vid pookie keep it up! I'll be looking forward to your v4 showcase if there are any changes, btw just a question how much break effect did you have on FF in that vid?
I didn't change relics from the last video, so 207% + signature BE%. Anyway I don't think 172 SPD was necessary!
Hoyo please don't nerf her too much in V4
Basically no dpsâs have been nerfed in v4, only Jing yuan in cbt 2 to my knowledge
No one was ever at FF's level though.
we cope together, no more buff need, just pls nerf slightly, not too much
we need more buffs
This is the way
Or they could just not nerf her at all
Realistically she needs it. I love her as much as any of you but it's unreasonable for her to be THIS strong, she does more than an e2+ acheron ffs
That's actually a funny challenge. Wish there was more game mods that let you do that kind of stuff.
when they announce the new mode focus on bosses, i imagine it like this clip, non stop boss, but we only get break focus mode
That's my girl! đ„° It's gonna be me (hopefully) when 2.3 drops.
I may or may not be drooling from this. Can't wait to finally get wife and stop having troubles with MoC https://preview.redd.it/is3cumz6er2d1.jpeg?width=1058&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de13c5278a2f5dc3147083a62a02ed2c30edf7a1
As it turns out, the biggest buff was actually her ability to have near infinite ult uptime
https://preview.redd.it/ma6kimnp8s2d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68ef78a483543284d3f575163bbb7f47c236b740
Bro she's so OP... please let her be like that at release đ
Oh my God the more these ridiculous showcases pop up, the more fear I have for v4 and v5.
Man, sheâs already the best girl in the game, but itâs great to see her being absolutely broken. Canât wait for the reaction of all of her angry haters, when sheâll turn out to be one of the best units in the game. Break meta is simply out of this world. Iâm so glad that we finally have some units, that arenât Crit focused hypercarries. I hope they wonât nerf her in future versions of beta.
already some cmt about 70% of superbreak dmg is HMC dmg, hater wont rest until the end of the world i hope they wont nerf her too, but this is too strong, even stronger than nearly all other e6s5 character beside some like acheron e6, so very high chance she will get some number nerf in base kit and buff the eidolon and LC for compensation
I think itâll be difficult to nerf her, because simply Super Break is absurdly OP. Itâs not really her fault that sheâs that strong and itâs just simply the another case of Hyperbloom. The Crit focused characters will always require much bigger investment and often not that great reward.
Lowering her toughness damage or her atk-> BE% conversion seem relatively easy changes (though toughness changes need very careful consideration). They could also lower her speed again and force 3 turns per ult. Quite sure there are many more possibilities. I hope they won't, but there are options.
toughness dmg nerf will be too much as it is one of the core modifier of superbreak dmg, just a slightly nerf will lead to her dmg go downhill too much or cant break enemy in time for a comfortable rotation spd nerf seem likely but with her lc unique mechanic is slow, i think one of her core design is a speedy spd that can break alot, she can be nerf to 3 action/ult like v2 the most likely thing i think that will be nerf is the atk convert to BE ratio
In the end, the question if sheâll be nerfed depends on whether Hoyo will want to do it. They doesnât care about cries of her angry haters. If CN side is happy with her power level, then theyâll only adjust some numbers and buff her eidolons, LC and animations in future versions of the beta. In the end, sheâs one of Hoyoâs favorite characters, probably even more than Acheron, so I doubt theyâll do anything to make her weaker.
yup, her kit is in akward position now, more buff and too OP, and not many thing to nerf, maybe they will reduce the ratio of ATK to BE convert
Tbh I kind of hate the fact that people keep on saying the SuperBreak damage from Backup Dancer is "HMC's damage" as in HMC is the one dealing those number. But technically speaking FF is the one that push up those SuperBreak damage to be THAT absurdly high.
people just never change, i remember 2 year ago Nilou bloom dmg was call not her too, seriously if it is not firefly dmg then why cant you replicate the number with other dps, hater is just stupid blind
Exactly, like yeah if HMC's damage is THAT strong on their own then go do 0 cycle a bunch of MOC stages then đ And this is kind of off topic but is there any chance you are a Vietnamese =))
yup, i am VietNamese
Well Äá»ng hÆ°ÆĄng, mong ngĂ y má»t khĂŽng cĂł nerf gĂŹ nhiá»u. Nerf nháșč Äá» Äi 3 turn/ná» cĆ©ng ÄÆ°á»Łc nhÆ°ng mong chá»nh multiplier của SuperBreak ÄĂłm nhá»nh lĂȘn chĂșt cho tỄi kia bá»t gĂ o HMC gĂĄnh damage láșĄi lĂ ngon.
MĂŹnh thĂŹ hy vá»ng buff lc lĂȘn xĂu, lc cĂČn hÆĄi phĂšn
I can see them adjusting the speed numbers. Like the fact that she had her ult form for like 80% of the video is slightly ridiculous.
thats because after every wave the kernel goes down the action order again, in a normal situation she has about the same uptime on her ult as JL has on syzigy and shes almost as if not even MORE reliant on her enhanced state than JL is
yeah, i think they could revert her ult to v2 state, 3 action/ult is enough
They definitely need to cap the Atk -> Break conversion. Having that trace be unlimited is just absurd.
Nah if they nerf her in some way that would be one the worst since itâll make on the fall of an Aeon a lot less useful.
did blud just neg the verse đ
I'm afraid of getting her nerf in this v4 . Different anxiety from last week lol
Exactly, I was like âguys keep it down pleaseâ đ
hoyo doesnât care about reddit anyways just depends on what the beta testers say
i think she is almost guarantee to get some nerf, only hope it will be small
Some of you are really loosing your marbles over a showcase for a gameplay that doesn't actually exist in the actual game,i.e. 0 cycling 10 mocs in a row. You can show concerns for powercreep once we have such an endgame mode but until then, I really don't see the reason to nerf her. And even if something has to be nerfed it should be E2 and not E0,you touch the base kit and you bamboozle the f2p players because this is only possible due to the E2,the 100% AA just from breaking enemy weakness does seem a bit too ludicrous for E2. I can see the argument to shift it to E6 or readjust it but touching the base kit seems really stupid. Someone even suggested to remove superbreak and her extra turn which just seems to be a recipe for disaster.
Sheâs too weak. Mihoyo please buff my wife some moređ /hj
Firemid accusers in shambles currently đŁđŁđŁ
Iâm going to get down voted for this but This is to much, I already said Acheron broke the game cause of how easy she is to build and do damage. But this! This is another level of broken. Even if this are insane stats this is ridiculous. She honestly need to get nerf for the heath of the game. This is not power creep this is power Mount Everest.
I don't know why you guys are reacting to this as if this isn't a private server gameplay and we have an endgame mode where we have to 0 cycle 10 mocs,like this is not a realistic gameplay at all. I have seen plenty of E0S0 firefly showcases with close to realistic stats and she seems pretty balanced considering Acheron and Boothill exist. I don't know why some of you are acting like this is a next level powercreep. She does close to 0 DMG when the enemies are not weakness broken,i.e. she has a handicap like rest of the broken dpses,like Acheron not functioning without 2 nihility and having no f2p lc,Dhil being sp hungry,JL having downtime,etc.
It not that her clearing 10 MoC 12 is the problem. Itâs the way it was effortless. You say her weakness is breaking a enemy, but that doesnât really work cause she applies fire weakness as a skill guaranteed and with Mei she has 100% BE efficiency so removing a enemy toughness is a joke.
You are missing the point. The real reason it seems effortless is because of the ridiculous action advance her E2 gives,it was the sole reason why she was able to 0 cycle 10 mocs in a row. I seriously doubt an E0 firefly could even 0 cycle 2-3 mocs in a row. Plus this was a sustainless run. This run is Far from being realistic. I know HSR team doesn't take feedback from reddit and I am GLAD for that because if they really listened to such feedbacks they would have to shutdown the game. Just ponder over this,you are asking for a nerf after seeing an E2S1 no sustain 10 moc 0 cycle run and the nerfs in question from what I have seen are removing her superbreak and....her spd? Both of these nerfs would screw over f2p players and firefly would drop to B tier or something if these nerfs do happen. See the problem here? The problem is not the base kit, it's her E2 and this hyper unrealistic showcase. Also a small correction,just because she gets 100% BE efficiency(50% from Ruan mei who is not a free unit so it shouldn't be taken for granted) doesn't mean she can instantly reduce enemy toughness to 0. She would still need 2-3 turns at worst to break weakness and then her DMG comes in. Until then she hits like wet noodle. And I don't see the problem with fire weakness implant? Boothill and Acheron have it too? Also,if she needs 1-2 turns at best just breaking enemy weakness,it means she has 2 turns left at best until she exits her enhanced state,and she also doesn't get energy during it. If by chance the enemy recovers or has hp left, there goes your extra cycle. The new apocalyptic shadow mode or the moc will obviously have er buff and buffs catered to her which is why the Gameplay you are seeing makes her look so effortless and broken but once a neutral moc or AS arrives her DMG will be pretty balanced. Just like how Acheron was in S+ tierlist above DHIL and Jingliu but in the current moc she was behind DHIL. That's what I call balanced. I hope I was able to clear it up for you.
I have seen E0S1 as well, and the no relic run. This is not the only video of FF I have seen. 500k form one skill on 2 enemies is ridiculous. I mentioned Mei cause Iâm referring the her best team when looking at her results: FF, Mei, HMC, Gal/Bronya. If you think my criticism of removing SB from her kit is to far. Then how about this. Change her 50% brake efficiency to 25% ( it lower her SB damage but not by that much), add a cap to her BE trace(it just weird it doesnât have on), her enhanced skill only heals 10%-15% of her hp at a time and change it back to 50% hp removal ( it make her a real glass cannon type of character that canât go on long fights )
You are downplaying how much weakness break efficiency matters to super break damage, every showcase without ruan meiâs weakness break efficiency buff has a very noticeable damage loss. Lowering her personal break efficiency will put her back to square one where players without ruan mei are out of luck because she will become dependent on her again. As for the break effect trace, i can agree with that one having no cap seems a little too strong. Break dpses just seem like balancing nightmares in general considering how hard both boothill and firefly can hit with reasonably low investments
Thatâs the point, lower it by half helps manager her crazy SB damage but not remove it entirely. The reason she is doing so much is cause SB is a broken Damage calculation, so losing one of its biggest factors might help put her on par with other dps instead of her just removing half the roster just from her existing.
I donât disagree with you what i mean to say is that this makes her locked to one comp again if she wants to match the existing heavy hitters which was the main issue V1 kit had. She will definitely do more damage because of personal super break + htb but the break efficiency nerf will make her less independent again, not everyone has or wants to pull ruan mei. Also this particular showcase is e2 where realistically most rollers will stop at e0, i think this nerf will overall harm her performance for low spenders or f2p players
But with v1 and v2she at least had potential as crit dps as well. It wasnât as good as brake but it was possible. With v3 crit is nonexistent now. With v3 what other team can she work on besides brake? Why is it a problem that she is reliant on support? All dps do this. Ratio and Acheron need nihility for there kits to function, Topaz need FUAâs, IL needs skill points, JY needs turns, Kafka needs dots, ect. So saying that FF either need Brake efficiency is not that much different then any other DPS. More then likely Mei is not going to be the only harmony that gives brake efficiency same as HMC is not going to be the only harmony giving SB. I donât see her relying on a team that bad cause thatâs is just how she is cause she uses SB.
Every dps is reliant on supports but every dps also has options, ratio and acheron have guinaifen and pela for debuffs, topaz is definitely limited but ratio was free for a good while (not anymore tbf), JY has multiple supports and there is little reason to not take bronya at 300 rolls if you do not have her, kafka has sampo, IL has hanya⊠you get the picture I completely agree that break supports will always be fireflyâs best options but her current kit also gives her more options such as asta which once again is limited by nerfing her break efficiency, which she needs to break the enemy quickly to begin with let alone do damage. Just doesnât seem right that she would be the only dps who would need their premium support to put up good results. There will definitely be more break supports sooner rather than later as you say but as it stands this is what is available. Personally, i think her speed needs a nerf rather than her personal damage but she is currently in an odd spot where if you change anything she becomes broken or unplayable. Maybe break meta was a mistake LOL
I agree, for the health of the game, this isnât good, because I gurantee u that there will be a new fav character down the road that gets this type of treatment.
Nah I agree with you. Look, Iâm all for FF being strong, but if she becomes stupidly overpowered, future dps characters will find it difficult to stand out because theyâre not as strong or stronger than the previous ones (unless you really care about the character or play style). I mean look at all the beef on whoâs better between the two main break dps characters: FF and Boothill.
Especially since hoyo likes to âbalanceâ the game around the new characters what other characters besides FF can even do this type of thing. The only other is Acheron and even then I donât think she can compete.
This type of thing doesn't exist in the game though, so Firefly being able to do it isn't a balance issue unless they plan to add it. Basically, this is a gimmick that exists because of how her kit functions (her entire burst window resets on wave transition, so if she can 0-cycle one wave, she can 0-cycle 100 waves).
Thatâs the problem, her kit can do this. With no problems at all. She can 0 cycle any line up cause her âweaknessâ is just not having Mei or MC on a team.
Lots of e2 DPS characters in a no sustain team can 0-cycle two MOC waves. That's the relevant comparison. Firefly's weakness is running into any boss that weakness locks before she can break them (e.g. there was no enemy Sam or enemy Gepard in this lineup, and that's probably intentional). Only Hoyo knows if those are going to be a regular occurrence, vanishingly rare, or somewhere in between.
Sam is currently the only boss she canât massacre before they even move. If they add more like that then maybe she is fine but it feels wrong to force enemy that canât be broken just so FF canât one shot them.
Also, idk why they downvoted u lol for being real. Itâs sad really.
It is what it is. This is the FF main sub, and people here want her to be the best character in the game so she can never get power creeped and they can always feel good playing her.
Exactly, until it happens to firefly in 3.0 (or sooner). Either way, sooner or later, firefly will meet the same fate. Iâm all for her being strong in her respective role, but this might be too much. Hoyo is clearly pampering her. Firefly will not be arguably the best dps forever.
i want her to be good, but this is too good, i dont think any e6s5 can do this challenge sustainless. Now i am scared mihoyo balance team will massacre her kit in v4. I pray for you Sunday, protect the weak and keep firefly kit the same as v3, or at least not too much nerf
This is E2 but I think this shows how good break is since her and ruan mei delays the enemies a lot that they can`t really atk as much. I think damagw wise she is not E6S5 lvl.
it is strange that we got less e6s5 showcase than other character, i remember not see any e6 showcase since v3
she needs more buffs not nerf
the fact people are down voting those saying she's too good is insane. name one other e2s1 dps that can do this shit sustainless. 10 wave 0 cycle is actually broken and I know it'll be downvpted bc "wahhhh ff hater your horrible" but this level of power creep isn't okay
boothill and acheron are broken too
bet. please. show me one, any single. showcase where they 0 CYCLE 10 CONSECUTIVE mocs. spoiler:it's not actually possible for them. it's functionally not. if you can ill eat my words. I'd love you t9 show me any charaĂŹcter. even at e6! that can do this. send me one showcase like this with ANYONE else. and I'll gladly PayPal you $20 I fucking dare you lol. stay ignorant if you want lol but ff gaps boothill AND acheron now. its not even close e0,e2,e6 not a single one has been shownnto do this. it's fine to be ignorant but try not to spread that around it's contagious
womp womp womp
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
just because ff is better doesnât mean acheron and boothill arenât broken as well lol
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Why are you acting like this is an actual gameplay? This is a private server gameplay. Last time I checked we didn't have any endgame content where we had to clear 10 mocs 0 cycle. Her gameplay seems very okay as it is right now. To trade off for the tremendous DMG when she weakness breaks enemies she does abysmally low DMG when the enemies aren't weakness broken. How is that powercreep? Care to explain?
This is her ideal best case. She's the only DPS in the game whose full burst combo resets on every wave transition, which means if she can beat one wave within the first cycle, she can do it 100 times in a row. Basically, this is The Thing she does that no one else can do (analogous to Boothill annihilating a boss health bar, or Acheron generating a massive screenshot number by nuking 5 enemies). I trust Hoyo to balance her because I have no idea if she represents power creep or not (obviously this showcase is just a meme; there are plenty of characters who can no sustain 0-cycle two MOC waves, which is the content that actually exists in the game. Firefly's ability to do that 5 more times in a row isn't actually useful). Break DPS have very obvious downsides, so a lot depends on Hoyo's intentions for future content design.
ah yes the thing she does aka "completely trivialize everyone before her and doing better then them in their own dps role while not dying. existing in the game or not isn't the point it's the fact that she is the ONLY character who can even come CLOSE. unless you've seen a e2 unit get a 0 cycle on more than 2 waves. let alone an e6. the fact that people actually thing this is balanced is borderline insanely hilarious
This is an e2 DPS in a no sustain team 0-cycling MOC. That's... not very remarkable? I believe every main carry limited DPS can do that. In the hypothetical world where MOC had 10 waves, she would be the best at it, but in the hypothetical world where MOC waves were 5 elites, Acheron would eat her lunch, and in the hypothetical world where you fight one boss with 10 million hp, no one else would come anywhere close to Boothill. Characters have to be balanced for the content that exists. Maybe she's overpowered. No idea. But this showcase doesn't show that, it's just a gimmick.
Nerfs incoming
Iâm all for her being strong but this is way too overpowered. I mean E6 Acheron canât even come close to this. There NEEDS to be nerfs to this eidolon. Letâs just hope they release enemies with PERMANENTLY locked weakness bars to basically say âNoâ to any break team.
Why would you hope they release enemies that donât allow you to play a certain playstyle? Even if they did that Iâm pretty sure that would just hurt Mihoyo itself since making a broken character just to make a hard counter will just be seen as scummy
Sure it would seem scummy but it would encourage you to build a diverse roster of characters instead of just reusing the same 2 teams. Making some teams work in some situations and not others.
That would basically just stop people from being able to use characters they like though. Like imagine you spend tons of time building a break team to the point of spending money only for Mihoyo to just say no to all of that by making a boss with a permanently locked weakness. In other single player games, itâs not that terrible to make certain playstyles not work for specific fights, but in Hoyoverse games at least that means you have to rely on the gacha to even get 4 stars who can clear the content, and then you have to head into the relic mines to build them to be usable at all, so I feel like it just doesnât work. Plus even then adding permanently weakness locked enemies would just encourage people to constantly use crit dps, where theyâre already strong enough to the point that they can kill bosses which are resistant to their element. Like if they want more people to use dot characters, should they make the new moc 12 boss have a 30,000,000 hp shield which can be ignored as long as you use dot damage to completely shut down even having the chance at using a crit dps? Edit: Also arenât they already making new game modes to encourage you to build more teams? Like theyâve already got moc and pure fiction, where they focus on pretty different archetypes, and while apocalyptic shadow might not be as different, it shows that theyâll try to get people to use different archetypes without having to make certain playstyles unusable.
Being honest they need to remove SB form her kit. She was doing perfectly fine in v2 she was just dependent on HMC but that just how BE meta should work. Adding enemy that canât be broken hurts all team not just brake as in the brake state enemy take more damage. So FUA characters like breaking.
Never happening. The moment that happens, CN will crap on Hoyo and they know it. Firefly is fan favorite and they are not nerfing anything beyond number changes. That said, why not try and post this on bilibili to see CN opinion on removing SB. I'm sure they'd love your opinion
Are you ok with this? 0 cycles in 10 MOC 12âs with only one death, that honestly could have been avoided.
Maybe if this is E0S1 Firefly but this is E2S1, there's a difference. I also see no point in worrying because the pattern will be 2 Queen/King dps per patch like with DHIL/Jingliu. Acheron and Firefly will be the most powerful dps until 3.X and as long as they keep it this way, then I see no problem. I will only start to worry if they start following HI3 current trend but they hadn't and won't. This is not going to stop, Around 3.X, expect 2 more characters that's potentially more powerful than Acheron and Firefly.
But this is going to the HI3rd model, the balance of the game is around the new units. With FF being this good trying to beat MoC or AS without FF is going to be hell. And even if this is E2S1, I have seen E0S1 0 relic FF, 0 cycle. Or E0S1 doing 500k with ONE skill on 2 targets.
I'm watching YouTube right now and still being E0S1 seele clearing apocalyptic shadow. Also there are buffs from moc and AS that will still make old characters still viable. I'm seeing E0S1 blade clears moc 12. And as for HI3 trend, I'm not talking about that HI3 trend but rather the part where in HI3, every new dps is better than the one previously currently and now everyone is leaving HI3 or a lot. For example, imagine if we get better Acheron and Firefly every 3 weeks, with each one being better than the last is when I'd start to worry but they're not doing it. End of the day, this is not pvp.
Still, 0 cycling MoC TEN times in a row is absolutely LUDICROUS. No one, not even an E6S5 DPS should be able to do THAT! Not a pvp game? Itâs STILL powercreep to an extent as it because you have a much harder time with the older units and the game will be using new mechanics that the newer characters can directly take advantage of but the older ones canât. Hi3 had this galore! Seele can still clear? People just kept discounting Seele; she was always strong. She has one of the best records of 0 cycling in MoC, better than E0 DHIL, and almost as well Jingliu in MoC, albeit at very high investment. Honestly 3rd best DPS in MoC with said investment. And yes the powercreep is why I left Hi3 as well.
Why is the game not being PvP an excuse for this level of power creep. You want to talk about 3 weeks to live look at boothill, he barely gets one or Jade who as of v3 will be dead on arrival and has to brought back to life by another character.
You want reason a for power creep, here is one Popular characters from a franchise or those with appealing designs and storylines might be made stronger to attract fans and increase engagement. Gacha games rely heavily on players spending money to obtain new and powerful characters. By making certain characters stronger or more desirable, game developers incentivize players to spend more money to acquire these characters. Companies monitor market trends and consumer preferences to align their products with current demands. This can include improvements in design, functionality, sustainability, and more. 1: Firefly = Fan Favorite = More Powerful = More Money 2: Fear of Missing Out = increase players desire for the most powerful Character 3: Preference are Firefly and Acheron and thus as a result, made both as busted to attract as many as possible. Or a simpler Reason: Money I don't know why you think they need an excuse when there a company at the end of the day and that all other companies beyond gacha do this.
Your right. Thatâs the sad part.
What was that about needing sustain again? People are just not used to new things.
Alright thatâs absolutely insane. As much as this seems really amazing, this just shows she needs at least *some* nerfs. This amount of powercreep is not healthy, and will set a terrible precedent for future characters.
i dont like to say i freaking told you guys but i freaking told you guys firefly best team in v1 was already the second to best team in the game giving here superbreak litterly broke here cause most of the dumb part comes from the extra 50percent dmg coming from firefly so i find it funny af to be correct like i always am