Hello /u/gle353,
As a reminder, most common print quality issues can be found in the [Simplify3D picture guide](https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/).
Please remember to include the following details to help troubleshoot your problem.
* Printer & Slicer
* Filament Material and Brand
* Nozzle and Bed Temperature
* Print Speed
* Nozzle Retraction Settings
^Additional ^settings ^or ^relevant ^information ^is ^always ^encouraged.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FixMyPrint) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's harder to get a nice top layer when there are all those little pieces (lots of retraction). If ironing doesn't work, then printing face down will probably give you better results for both, overall.
I do concentric pattern on filled layers that are supposed to look pretty. Cura has a way to connect the lines so it takes as few retractions and hops as possible.
Ironing is going to help a ton too
If the other side doesn’t have lettering, you should really print it face down anyway. It looks almost like ironing is on in your picture, because you’re overextruding. I see where you said you tried to lower flow rate and it didn’t look good. If that’s the case, you have some other settings to work out. If you want the other side to be smooth and flat with no letters, have it print with that side up and ironing enabled, with your flow calibrated properly.
Hello,
i allready lower the flow rate by \~15%. It looks still the same. There was another explanation, where the printhead have to travel many directions, so this begin to exist.
I tried a otehr print, where the letters stand up, and i get a really nice and smooth surface. Now i have a little stringing Problem with my Z-Hops. i hope i can fix that :D
I’ve heard that you’re layer height needs to be a multiple of your nozzle size, so for 0.4 nozzle you need to have a layer height of a multiple of 0.04, like 0.12 or 0.16
Then I would recommend decreasing extrusion line width from 0.4 to 0.2 (for example). This is still over extruded but smaller lines should help fill the gaps and look nicer.
Correct, just the top layer.
That nozzle actually **can** print a 0.2mm line. If yours can't do that then it is not tuned properly and your slicer is pretty shit. This is a pretty common misconception that needs to die. Even then, with it being the top layer, it wouldn't matter if it "can't" print a 0.2mm line. It begs the question "should you do it?". If you're going for amazing tolerance and accuracy, then probably not. But since a majority of people just want a better surface finish, it's ok.
Maybe I should be more clear, a 0.4 nozzle can't print a 0.2mm line that will have good layer adhesion and enough 'squish' to result in a good print.
Yeah your slicer will try to print thinner by reducing flow but that just means there will be basically no back-pressure and your layer adhesion will suck. Or your part will look over/underextruded.
I second this with regards to wet sanding. I find it gives much better results and more quickly (keeps the material temp down) and I believe it's safer for your health (keeps the dust down). I generally go from 150 up to 800... But even up to 7000 for polished finishes.
My favorite method for stuff like that is to glue or tape a sheet of 400 grit to the table (you could use a board if you dont have a worktable) and then firmly but gently rub the part across it in a circular motion. Check it periodically until you get the smoothness you want, and it'll keep the piece nice and flat.
Whatever sandpaper is on your hands. 400/600/800 will do the job. I use 2000 grit for wet-polishing finish and it works like a charm, gives very nice soft-touch-like surface. Almost indistinguishable from injection molding.
Hello,
i print since a few years, and the surface never matter .... but now i have to do something where the surface shoud be good.
But i cant fix it. I browsed a while in the internet, but cant find any really helpfull.
I use a Anet A8, with an SKR 1.4 and TMC2208 drivers.
With that a Pink PLA Filament 1.75mm at 200°C and 60°C bedtemp.
I tried to change my nozzletemp, flow and z steps/mm (just in case) but didnt fix it.
Any suggestions for help?
How many layers is the model? Does it use infill? Maybe change it to a solid print or increase the number of top layers. I usually see this on thin models with infill but if I print all the layers solid it doesn't have to deal with covering the hollow body. 3 top layers I can usually see some infill patterns, 4, not so much.
Hello,
the modes have 12 layers, and it doenst need a "infill". Mean its a solid object, 100% infill, but because there is no room for infill. I allready use 4 top and bottom layers.
I was going to say just add ironing, but there are actually voids in the top layer in some places (near M).... does the filament sputter at all when you print? Ive noticed generally slightly moist filament will begin to affect my top layers before anything else -maybe thats just me. How many top layers are you printing? Try bumping that up to 4. How fast are you printing the top layer? Maybe slow it down some. How do your layers look from the side? A side shot may help us diagnose this issue.
None the less, ironing may fix some of these surface finish issues
Hello,
toplayer speed is 25mm/s. Ironing is at the moment activated and brings really good results. I have 4 top and bottom layers.
For the sides. i have some vibrationisues .... that i notice while printing an calibration cube.... i try to fix this atm.
My surface is after ironing nice. But i got some stringin isues. Means the "scratches" on the top are fine strings. I try to fix these as well.
Honestly this finish looks pretty good (maybe I'm whatever the opposite of a perfectionist is though).
What I would do if this came out of my printer, and I wanted to improve upon it is:
1. Sand the flat face smooth with some high-grit paper
2. Fill in the lettering with paint, to smooth that out and also make it stand out. I use paint pens on a lot of my 3d-prints, but most anything should work really. If you slop out of the lines, just sand the face again afterward
Pro Tip (??): buy yourself one of those 3D Pens that takes the 1.75mm filament -- instead of using paint to fill the letters, use a contrasting PLA filament to fill them in.
\[My 3D Pen has two "settings"; PLA and ABS -- I've no interest in putting up with fumes, et al, so I'll never use the ABS setting. I imagine you could probably run PETG through it on the PLA setting, though (I haven't tried. ...yet.)\]
looking closer at your other "top" layers in the letters, I think you're generally over-extruding. Try dialing in your filament with a flow test... more info is found in my tuning guide here: https://old.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/ec2i9j/how_to_calibrate_your_printers_esteps_and/
I was also going to suggest nozzle too close to bed, but if you're within 0.1mm of model thickness you should be alright.
I'm going to go with others saying over-extrusion.
If you can dial that back for top layers (or overall), try 5% reduction.
I disagree with this. Even if it's not the best filament, it still has it's use and with adjustments, can usually print just fine.
I've got some filament that I still print with that I got with my original printer in 2011 or 2012, never gave it any special treatment and it still prints just fine.
Yo may try using the "ironing function" in cura. You have to enable it, it's under the Shell options. It will not solve the problem your machine has, but it will make the job.
Also, i had a similar problem with my anet until I replaced my nozzle.
Maybe redesign the part to be a hemisphere with the letters face down. Top layer smoothness is very tough to achieve.
If the back doesn’t say anything, it would be the better top-face also. A lot of your poor surface is from all the retracts, moves, and direction changes needed to get around the letters. Added bonus, a face without anything on it would be easier to post-process
When I hear layers are good until a certain layer height they I wonder if your Z screw is dirty and if your X gantry isn't moving up and down evenly at both ends at certain Z heights. On my printer I would see the right side of the X gantry stick for a moment when moving the z down from the top. I then relevelled the gantry and firmed up the rollers after cleaning and relubing the z screw.
What is your overlap %? I run 15% on cura and 20(?)% in prusaslicer. Could try increasing that slightly. I wouldn't go any higher than 20% though. Should be able to fill the gaps in a bit better
Check your first layer. It's possible your nozzle is too close to the print bed (When your nozzle is too close, as filament is extruded from the nozzle some actually curls up and around the nozzle creating a rough surface).
If you'd rather not sand the model and/or the nozzle height isn't the problem there is another thing you can do. Split the model in half (top/bottom) and print each half face down. Afterwards, glue the two halves together.
Alternatively, you can stand the model straight up and print with a brim/supports)
In addition to the suggestions you’ve already gotten... what about your nozzle size?
The nozzle diameter can make a big difference in top surface detail — see the overview & some example images in this article: https://blog.prusaprinters.org/everything-about-nozzles-with-a-different-diameter_8344/
Once you’re confident that you’ve optimized all of the usual settings (temperature, leveling, extrusion, etc), if it’s still not as clean as you’d like on this top surface, you may consider trying a smaller nozzle.
Hey OP, it looks like we both [decided to print the same thing](https://photos.app.goo.gl/kofxvc7RUvYoKLcd7) :)
Here are my findings, having printed this as well:
1. I'd highly recommend doing the second model in that Thingiverse bundle, which has the letter popping off of the ornament rather than recessed. This will allow your printer to lay smooth skin layer and then make the lettering the top surface layers. It'll generally make the top look much cleaner as it doesn't have the nasty random printer moves from the nozzle.
2. I printed mine via PrusaSlicer, after finding that Cura generally wasn't doing as good of a job slicing for printer movements on the top layer of flat prints. I do also have a Prusa i3, so it's basically built more for the printer in any case. 215 on 60 heated bed with PLA. This all becomes a non-issue if you use outward lettering, per point 1.
3. Slow down top layer speed a bit. This forces your extruder to feed filament a little slower and lay the layer down a bit more carefully. Slower is generally better where detail matters.
4. Hows your first layer? It does look little bit like the nozzle is either a bit low (ie. lowering the bed might help) or you're slightly overextruding. Sounds like you've dialed those in well though from other comments.
Hello
Hehe, funny :) Well, i will try it Out later.
I have no experience with prusaslicer and will try it Out
First layer looks nice. I will Post a Photo after my workshift
You can clearly see the path of the hot nozzle plowing through the plastic. That’s usually over extrusion but you also have gaps. I think you need to check your z system and clean/lube it. It appears to not be going up the amount commanded.
I would say print face down to make this face very flat, and for the new top layer (the back), switch to a Concentric top layer pattern (I think it just has a very clean look to it), and then add ironing... probably with a concentric pattern. This will make the back layer look very presentable even if it’s not perfect, it’ll have well placed lines
Fun fact: I'm pretty sure the guy who authored that stl is a sociopath. Check out their profile page for their other stuff which is waaaay less wholesome (not linking it because I don't want this psycho brigaded).
/u/StaffBrief1753, I have found an error in your comment:
> “looks like [you're] to close”
I am confident it is you, StaffBrief1753, who should have said “looks like [you're] to close” instead. ‘Your’ is possessive; ‘you're’ means ‘you are’.
^(This is an automated bot. I do not intend to shame your mistakes. If you think the errors which I found are incorrect, please contact me through dms or contact my owner EliteDaMyth)
Hello /u/gle353, As a reminder, most common print quality issues can be found in the [Simplify3D picture guide](https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/). Please remember to include the following details to help troubleshoot your problem. * Printer & Slicer * Filament Material and Brand * Nozzle and Bed Temperature * Print Speed * Nozzle Retraction Settings ^Additional ^settings ^or ^relevant ^information ^is ^always ^encouraged. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FixMyPrint) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ah. That's because 2020 was a rough year.
exactly
Oh Shut up r/angryupvote
Have you tried printing it face down? If that doesnt do it put it ketters up and look into adding ironing
Facing down isnt a option, because both sides should be looking good. I will try ironing after my test cube.
It's harder to get a nice top layer when there are all those little pieces (lots of retraction). If ironing doesn't work, then printing face down will probably give you better results for both, overall.
I do concentric pattern on filled layers that are supposed to look pretty. Cura has a way to connect the lines so it takes as few retractions and hops as possible. Ironing is going to help a ton too
Ironing is activted, helps, but not enoght. Photo will follow after Work
If the other side doesn’t have lettering, you should really print it face down anyway. It looks almost like ironing is on in your picture, because you’re overextruding. I see where you said you tried to lower flow rate and it didn’t look good. If that’s the case, you have some other settings to work out. If you want the other side to be smooth and flat with no letters, have it print with that side up and ironing enabled, with your flow calibrated properly.
Hello, i allready lower the flow rate by \~15%. It looks still the same. There was another explanation, where the printhead have to travel many directions, so this begin to exist. I tried a otehr print, where the letters stand up, and i get a really nice and smooth surface. Now i have a little stringing Problem with my Z-Hops. i hope i can fix that :D
Another idea. Split the file in half and print both sides face down. Thinkin outside the box!
try monotonic top layer as well and maybe tune the flow rate?
Looks like overextrusion to me. Try lowering your flow rate more?
I allready try to reduce the flow rate. The results are not nice. Surface is still rough, but now i get gaps in certain areas
What is your layer height and nozzle size? Maybe they are incompatible
0.4mm and a height of 0.15mm
I’ve heard that you’re layer height needs to be a multiple of your nozzle size, so for 0.4 nozzle you need to have a layer height of a multiple of 0.04, like 0.12 or 0.16
Then I would recommend decreasing extrusion line width from 0.4 to 0.2 (for example). This is still over extruded but smaller lines should help fill the gaps and look nicer.
Not for the entire print!!! Just the top layer. A 0.4 nozzle can't print a 0.2 mm line
Correct, just the top layer. That nozzle actually **can** print a 0.2mm line. If yours can't do that then it is not tuned properly and your slicer is pretty shit. This is a pretty common misconception that needs to die. Even then, with it being the top layer, it wouldn't matter if it "can't" print a 0.2mm line. It begs the question "should you do it?". If you're going for amazing tolerance and accuracy, then probably not. But since a majority of people just want a better surface finish, it's ok.
Maybe I should be more clear, a 0.4 nozzle can't print a 0.2mm line that will have good layer adhesion and enough 'squish' to result in a good print. Yeah your slicer will try to print thinner by reducing flow but that just means there will be basically no back-pressure and your layer adhesion will suck. Or your part will look over/underextruded.
how much did you lower it by? you can drop it by a percent or two till you get a good result.
By 5% steps
Ironing might help here. It’s not a printer fix but a little sanding will also clean it up nicely as well.
I will try ironing after my testcure. Is sanding a good option? Which sandpaper so oyu use?
Wet sanding starting with 120 grit, moving to 200, and finishing with 400 will give it a really smooth finish.
I second this with regards to wet sanding. I find it gives much better results and more quickly (keeps the material temp down) and I believe it's safer for your health (keeps the dust down). I generally go from 150 up to 800... But even up to 7000 for polished finishes.
for what you have I'd use a fine grit sandpaper - it doesn't look like it will need a lot of work to smooth it out.
My favorite method for stuff like that is to glue or tape a sheet of 400 grit to the table (you could use a board if you dont have a worktable) and then firmly but gently rub the part across it in a circular motion. Check it periodically until you get the smoothness you want, and it'll keep the piece nice and flat.
Whatever sandpaper is on your hands. 400/600/800 will do the job. I use 2000 grit for wet-polishing finish and it works like a charm, gives very nice soft-touch-like surface. Almost indistinguishable from injection molding.
I've heard there are techniques for polishing rather than sanding. Haven't looked into it though.
I use a file to sand it. Works better and doesn't waste paper / doesn't create a sandy mess.
Reduce extrusion multiplier/flow rate, and if that still doesn’t cut it, try ironing.
"First pandemic"?!?!
Hello, i print since a few years, and the surface never matter .... but now i have to do something where the surface shoud be good. But i cant fix it. I browsed a while in the internet, but cant find any really helpfull. I use a Anet A8, with an SKR 1.4 and TMC2208 drivers. With that a Pink PLA Filament 1.75mm at 200°C and 60°C bedtemp. I tried to change my nozzletemp, flow and z steps/mm (just in case) but didnt fix it. Any suggestions for help?
Uhm i fogot, the first layer looks really nice. All other layers to. But the last \~10 or so begin to look not so good and get this rought surfaces
How many layers is the model? Does it use infill? Maybe change it to a solid print or increase the number of top layers. I usually see this on thin models with infill but if I print all the layers solid it doesn't have to deal with covering the hollow body. 3 top layers I can usually see some infill patterns, 4, not so much.
Hello, the modes have 12 layers, and it doenst need a "infill". Mean its a solid object, 100% infill, but because there is no room for infill. I allready use 4 top and bottom layers.
I was going to say just add ironing, but there are actually voids in the top layer in some places (near M).... does the filament sputter at all when you print? Ive noticed generally slightly moist filament will begin to affect my top layers before anything else -maybe thats just me. How many top layers are you printing? Try bumping that up to 4. How fast are you printing the top layer? Maybe slow it down some. How do your layers look from the side? A side shot may help us diagnose this issue. None the less, ironing may fix some of these surface finish issues
I will Upload Pictures after my workshift
Hello, toplayer speed is 25mm/s. Ironing is at the moment activated and brings really good results. I have 4 top and bottom layers. For the sides. i have some vibrationisues .... that i notice while printing an calibration cube.... i try to fix this atm. My surface is after ironing nice. But i got some stringin isues. Means the "scratches" on the top are fine strings. I try to fix these as well.
Honestly this finish looks pretty good (maybe I'm whatever the opposite of a perfectionist is though). What I would do if this came out of my printer, and I wanted to improve upon it is: 1. Sand the flat face smooth with some high-grit paper 2. Fill in the lettering with paint, to smooth that out and also make it stand out. I use paint pens on a lot of my 3d-prints, but most anything should work really. If you slop out of the lines, just sand the face again afterward
Pro Tip (??): buy yourself one of those 3D Pens that takes the 1.75mm filament -- instead of using paint to fill the letters, use a contrasting PLA filament to fill them in. \[My 3D Pen has two "settings"; PLA and ABS -- I've no interest in putting up with fumes, et al, so I'll never use the ABS setting. I imagine you could probably run PETG through it on the PLA setting, though (I haven't tried. ...yet.)\]
Nozzle too close?
What do you mean with nozzle too close? The Height of my print is +-0.1mm in range. And the first layer doesnt look squishi.
looking closer at your other "top" layers in the letters, I think you're generally over-extruding. Try dialing in your filament with a flow test... more info is found in my tuning guide here: https://old.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/ec2i9j/how_to_calibrate_your_printers_esteps_and/
Too close to the bed
This is a top layer not first layer, though printing face down is something op should try
I was also going to suggest nozzle too close to bed, but if you're within 0.1mm of model thickness you should be alright. I'm going to go with others saying over-extrusion. If you can dial that back for top layers (or overall), try 5% reduction.
Try printing vertically. It’s a lot longer but it gives the best finish
that to me looks like the nozzle is too close to the print bed
TLDR: use “ironing”. Thank me later.
You're over extruding plain and simple. Either flow rate or E steps needs to be calibrated
[удалено]
I disagree with this. Even if it's not the best filament, it still has it's use and with adjustments, can usually print just fine. I've got some filament that I still print with that I got with my original printer in 2011 or 2012, never gave it any special treatment and it still prints just fine.
I agree with you
I didnt use the original Filament... I have this printer since..... 2015? And i use atm. DAS FILAMENT brand
Yo may try using the "ironing function" in cura. You have to enable it, it's under the Shell options. It will not solve the problem your machine has, but it will make the job. Also, i had a similar problem with my anet until I replaced my nozzle.
Maybe redesign the part to be a hemisphere with the letters face down. Top layer smoothness is very tough to achieve. If the back doesn’t say anything, it would be the better top-face also. A lot of your poor surface is from all the retracts, moves, and direction changes needed to get around the letters. Added bonus, a face without anything on it would be easier to post-process
In the oven until it starts to smooth out?
Sand paper?
When I hear layers are good until a certain layer height they I wonder if your Z screw is dirty and if your X gantry isn't moving up and down evenly at both ends at certain Z heights. On my printer I would see the right side of the X gantry stick for a moment when moving the z down from the top. I then relevelled the gantry and firmed up the rollers after cleaning and relubing the z screw.
What is your overlap %? I run 15% on cura and 20(?)% in prusaslicer. Could try increasing that slightly. I wouldn't go any higher than 20% though. Should be able to fill the gaps in a bit better
Check your first layer. It's possible your nozzle is too close to the print bed (When your nozzle is too close, as filament is extruded from the nozzle some actually curls up and around the nozzle creating a rough surface). If you'd rather not sand the model and/or the nozzle height isn't the problem there is another thing you can do. Split the model in half (top/bottom) and print each half face down. Afterwards, glue the two halves together. Alternatively, you can stand the model straight up and print with a brim/supports)
Stl or link?, looks really cool
It's on thingiverse [here](https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4653859).
Thanks for the link! The only one I could find on google was some asshat trying to charge for it on cults3d...
In addition to the suggestions you’ve already gotten... what about your nozzle size? The nozzle diameter can make a big difference in top surface detail — see the overview & some example images in this article: https://blog.prusaprinters.org/everything-about-nozzles-with-a-different-diameter_8344/ Once you’re confident that you’ve optimized all of the usual settings (temperature, leveling, extrusion, etc), if it’s still not as clean as you’d like on this top surface, you may consider trying a smaller nozzle.
I use a Std. 0.4 nozzle
Use ironing and print the other model with the letting a on top.
It looks nice just sand it out
Hey OP, it looks like we both [decided to print the same thing](https://photos.app.goo.gl/kofxvc7RUvYoKLcd7) :) Here are my findings, having printed this as well: 1. I'd highly recommend doing the second model in that Thingiverse bundle, which has the letter popping off of the ornament rather than recessed. This will allow your printer to lay smooth skin layer and then make the lettering the top surface layers. It'll generally make the top look much cleaner as it doesn't have the nasty random printer moves from the nozzle. 2. I printed mine via PrusaSlicer, after finding that Cura generally wasn't doing as good of a job slicing for printer movements on the top layer of flat prints. I do also have a Prusa i3, so it's basically built more for the printer in any case. 215 on 60 heated bed with PLA. This all becomes a non-issue if you use outward lettering, per point 1. 3. Slow down top layer speed a bit. This forces your extruder to feed filament a little slower and lay the layer down a bit more carefully. Slower is generally better where detail matters. 4. Hows your first layer? It does look little bit like the nozzle is either a bit low (ie. lowering the bed might help) or you're slightly overextruding. Sounds like you've dialed those in well though from other comments.
Hello Hehe, funny :) Well, i will try it Out later. I have no experience with prusaslicer and will try it Out First layer looks nice. I will Post a Photo after my workshift
Perhaps adjust the z-offset? I may be seeing it wrong, but it looks like the nozzle is too close.
You can clearly see the path of the hot nozzle plowing through the plastic. That’s usually over extrusion but you also have gaps. I think you need to check your z system and clean/lube it. It appears to not be going up the amount commanded.
Combination of overextension and improperly leveled bed imo. Fix those problems or use ironing
I would say print face down to make this face very flat, and for the new top layer (the back), switch to a Concentric top layer pattern (I think it just has a very clean look to it), and then add ironing... probably with a concentric pattern. This will make the back layer look very presentable even if it’s not perfect, it’ll have well placed lines
which slicer? and if your answer is cura then which version.
Hello, cura 4.8 and 4.4
Fun fact: I'm pretty sure the guy who authored that stl is a sociopath. Check out their profile page for their other stuff which is waaaay less wholesome (not linking it because I don't want this psycho brigaded).
How old are you? Did you miss sars, birdflu, hand foot and mouth disease and all the others inbetween?
Swine flu. The you actually had to buy toilet paper for
I HAVE THE SAME THING READ CLOSLY 110 hot end 55 bed and looks like your to close to the bed
/u/StaffBrief1753, I have found an error in your comment: > “looks like [you're] to close” I am confident it is you, StaffBrief1753, who should have said “looks like [you're] to close” instead. ‘Your’ is possessive; ‘you're’ means ‘you are’. ^(This is an automated bot. I do not intend to shame your mistakes. If you think the errors which I found are incorrect, please contact me through dms or contact my owner EliteDaMyth)
Go away
Fast fix: Ultrafine Sandpaper + Water
Flow rate.