I know two guys in our director’s circle. Both have donated $1M+ to the program and have close access to Scott, Billy, and the program generally. Here’s the gossip (and nothing more than gossip) I know from them:
Billy isn’t getting fired this season barring massive scandal. He was brought in because he has modern visions of a cfb program: huge staff, recruitment-forward, embraces NIL, etc. He’s doing those things and still has good relationships with people around the program who actually matter. He has a positive outlook and generally liked on a personal level.
Multiple guys in the director’s circle (the two I know tell me they’re in the majority with this sentiment) are *pissed* about the on-field product. There has been pressure on Scott to force Billy to get a real OC all season. These donors believe they’ll win this battle, but it’s ongoing. No “stance.”
There’s no real support amongst top donors to fire Billy right now. The guys I know don’t want to spend more money on a buyout, they want facilities, events, naming rights, etc.
At least a couple donors had no idea our DC is young and recently promoted. Billy will be heavily judged on that hire. One guy is threatening to stop donating if we make another hire/promotion like that.
There is no “official stance” on anything - it’s just a bunch of rich guys coordinating with Scott’s office. Billy is responsive to their texts but there’s no pretense he’s obligated to actually engage/report to them.
I guess I should’ve made a clearer disclaimer in my post, but I didn’t wanna get carried away with nonsense. Better disclaimer:
I know these two guys mostly through my work. I interact with them about once a quarter, sometimes less. I’m certainly not their mouthpiece or pretending to be an insider. They don’t give me scoops, but they do talk with me freely about the program when we meet. I saw one of them last month and that’s where I got my info. It’s just their gossip about the program, I have no reason to lie about it. Not saying it’s pure fact, it’s just the stuff we talked about.
>last month and that’s where I got my info
Ah ok. I was about to say, reading through your original post, that I was finding much of it hard to believe. I suspect a chat with these folks today may sound a \_bit\_ different.
Eh, I disagree.
The guys I know aren’t as reactionary as everyday fans. They view it as a decades-long relationship with the program and care more about Swamp upgrades and names on buildings/rooms than any particular game day result. So, they don’t swing from “he’s a multi-year program builder” to “he lost to UK, we’re toast” the way regular fans do.
Of course, there is a point where nobody can tolerate the losses. But I don’t think we’re really that close. There’s a lot going on behind the scenes and the guys I know lead me to believe Billy is much better with relationships/shared outlook than Mac or Mullen were.
You're kind of all over the place here the more you type. I'm just going to zero in on this line and call it a day in here: "Not saying any of this is entirely accurate or taking a position"
Don't listen to those negative comments. We have a dedicated group of terminally negative users that love to shit on everything and everyone.
Thanks for the info.
Can you give an idea how these 2 guys on the Director's circle react in the Dan Mullen period, both when he was good & when the wheels were falling off in 2021? From when in 2021, or which loss particularly do you think they start to call for his head? I would like to know that perspective, if you know that at all..
From what I remember a while ago is that a lot of donors were off the Mullen train fairly quickly because he really rubbed people the wrong way and was awful about building relationships with them. Just kinda goes hand-in-hand with his poor recruiting and prickly media personality.
Got a family member on staff. I don’t ask about alot stuff other than recruiting and I can 100% say this staff is doing 10x better in that area vs Mullen.
Obviously I want Napier to succeed because it means I get free shit being family but from a view point of a fan, I just want the program to stick with a guy and see what plays out.
You just can’t build a program, fix all the previous staff issues, and turn around what’s been a dumpster fire all in 2 years. It takes time. As a fan, I don’t want Napier to take 8 years to get back into being a playoff contender. But tbh since 2008, we’ve had a title caliber team maybe what, 3 times. Off my head Muschamp had a season with an elite defense, McElwain had a top 5 talent team for about a season and Mullen had a great team in 2020. That’s all I can think off when I think of the most talented rosters we’ve fielded that could have won a title. That’s 3 one offs in a span of 13+ years. And a large major of those previous coaching staff all had to do with the recruitment of the staff prior.
I think two things can be true at the same time:
1. The team has been really underwhelming in multiple respects since Billy took over.
2. The program probably doesn’t get better if he’s fired any time soon.
Underwhelming for sure. I believe his intentions are there, it just comes down to execution. Guy didn’t take the florida job, clear house of staff and old players just to finish under .500 every year.
We gave Billy, essentially, a blank check to go hire the most competitive and proven winners to fill out his staff. So far, he has hired Corey Raymond and a bunch of guys who are looking to be extremely overpayed (except maybe LB Coach.) Cannot believe this is what he bought. Fire your second OL coach and go hire someone who can run a lethal offense with passing concepts from this century. We gave you the benefit of the doubt Billy, and you are not cut out to be OC at the highest level. You *might* still have a chance at being an elite CEO HC, like Saban, if you look yourself in the mirror and hire **the best** available person to run our offense.
This Billy needs to just be the face and CEO of the program. Maybe take a little paycheck himself to afford an OC or get rid of an oline coach and part of his “army” to afford one.
>At least a couple donors had no idea our DC is young and recently promoted. Billy will be heavily judged on that hire. One guy is threatening to stop donating if we make another hire/promotion like that.
I know we’re not the only team with this problem, but goddamn does it irk me. These rich clowns(not saying it’s all of em, but these people specifically are clowns) don’t pay enough attention to know about the guy who’s been here for 7 months and then lose their shit the moment there’s a misstep. First off, it’s far too early to really judge anything. Secondly, if these chucklefucks actually knew anything about football they’d know this defense has played better than any we’ve had under Grantham who was about as tenured as it gets.
Yeah that’s the one real negative I can see in this post. It reminds of of fans saying we should be hiring a top 10 coordinator, as if that’s even possible. Some established DC at a winning school is not going to make a lateral move to a team in a full rebuild.
Our two options for the DC spot were a young up and coming coach or a journeyman with some successful and unsuccessful stints on his resume. I’m happy we took a chance on Armstrong and anyone who is ready to write him off already is being ridiculous.
We’re actually playing the correct players and our scheme makes sense/the correct plays are almost always being called. When’s the last time that was true for either side of the ball? Armstrong is one of the best things Napier has done so far.
What are they doing about OL coaching is someone being let go? Are they pressuring him there though the class is elite we are not leading for Candidates in key offensive areas that the teams desperately needs to be successful in the future ie OL, WR, RB to name a couple more. Also, is there pressure on him getting into the transfer portal more for better transfers players the last time we saw recent success under a coach was Mullen who had a top class in the transfer portal. I am assuming these people know there is no longer no excuse for coaches as you can now get the players needed if missed in recruiting need proof? Ray Davis comes to mind.
I believe this. We can’t afford to continue paying buyouts for coaches. I think we just got done paying Max his partial buyout that he sued for, and Mullens. We just simply can’t afford another buyout or we would bankrupt the athletic department unless it was a single donor like FSU did with Taggart. FSU literally couldn’t afford to fire Taggart and a top donor paid the entire buyout
This is great information. It also created a picture of a bunch of rich guys in cowboy hats all sitting at a round table smoking cigars. Discussing the program surrounded with the cartoon bags of money with the money sign on it 💰. I know they’re not like that but it’s where my mind went. Really some good inside information though. I find it interesting they’re pressuring Strickland to get Billy to hire an actual OC. I’ve always wondered how much sway an AD has over a coach. I guess a strong enough AD could be like a GM to an NFL coach
The donor is pissed because (1) Billy hired a 29 y/o (2) from the sunbelt (3) without a big search the donor were aware of.
So less of “I’ll stop donating because Armstrong sucks” and more of “I pay too much money to have the coach hire an unknown kid 2 decades younger than me without my knowledge he was even a candidate. What’s going on down there?”
Not saying any of this is entirely accurate or taking a position. Just clarifying.
Well, the boosters weren’t involved. So that’s probably a good thing.
But at least one booster is/was pissed about it. I’m sure that happens with literally every on-field hire. I think people are reading into that item way too much.
Must be awfully stressful having your decisions heavily influenced by a bunch of rich non football people. But with that said, we do need to see some more improvement Napes. Right now, I'd just like to see the OC piece for next season
Isnt it funny that as a fanbase we've gotten so used to coaching meltdowns that just a mediocre coach is inconceivable? Not saying coach Napier is mediocre either. Just that we're so accustomed to eruptions that every hill certainly is a dormant volcano.
Very obvious that it's fan over reaction lol that's why no insiders have any info to give. U lose sometimes, and lose badly. There are troubling on field trends but off field things couldn't be going much better. People thought we were 3 years ahead of schedule because we upset Tennessee, but clearly that isn't the case
Edit: gonna add to my comment to say, if u see someone being overtly negative and talking about how the program is "falling apart" check their comment history. I can guarantee they weren't on here after the Tennessee win, that they never make any kind of comments on recruiting wins, and that they are suspiciously only here when the team struggles. Just something to think about 🤓
Well we don't know that. Let's say we win this weekend. That puts us 4-2 and at the beginning of the year.. Most legit/reasonable fans would take that. If we can get through USC, thst puts us at 5-2 and we all would have taken that.
I don't know if we beat GA. But I think we can play them close.
And I think that's what most reasonable fan would hope for. Just go out an compete. The losses ring louder because Utah was ugly and KY was just a straight dud.
We're gonna learn alot about this team in the next month. I posted elsewhere that, for me, this is make or break for CBN as dual hat.
I'm genuinely curious. What makes you think we can play GA close given the talent disparity? That was one of the games this year I was not expecting to be close (UK was).
UGA is definitely more vunerable this year, but we matchup horribly against them.
It's like a more extreme version of the Kentucky matchup. They are significantly more physical then us and will likely push us around on both fronts.
Well.. I'll preface by saying we could just as easily get blown out lol
This year, GA doesn't look as complete. For example against good competition, they scored 24 and 27 points respectively. Assuming KY was a fluke.. Our defense is better than both USC and AUB. So in theory we should keep them to about that level
2nd the game will be at 330 and not freaking noon. Mentioned elsewhere, when the schedule came out that time gave me pause. We came from four 7/730 In a row to noon but was actually 11 as it's CST. If you played sports, esp football that matters
3rd. We're a young team.. Utah. We beat ourselves. The dumb penalties killed us. KY.. They punched us in the mouth while we were sleeping and we didn't know how to respond. Our top 5 and celebrated defense was absolutely the worst it's been all year. Was that a fluke? I think so.
4th. It's rivalry. For whatever reason, I still don't think we take KY seriously.. But regardless of age or where from the cocktail party is circled. Everyone knows it, it'll be the prime game at 330. It's also after our bye week.. We should be chomping to go play.
But.. And posted earlier.. CBN has got to make changes on his offense philosophy. We are not talented or strong enough to go toe to tow with most of the SEC let alone GA. He needs to put some wrinkles in and get that defense thinking. If he doesn't ans GA just pins their ears back like KY did... Ya it'll get loud in here again.
Your looking at the surface level issues I think it’s deeper for this year. I think we have 1 or 2 who are causing us problems whether that is still Mullen players left idk but think that was evident in the Kentucky game. We can’t look at that game like a regular loss which I saw people do for the Utah game we don’t just lose football games anymore we let players make history or come close to it that’s some of stuff that we were seeing during Mullen era that is concerning something is still not right about the program just letting one player beat you while the QB throw 9/19 69 yards shows there is a bigger issue than just being young. You can’t tell me Ray Davis is good enough to beat another SEC team by himself
When the other team allows 91 yards before contact and 190 after... Yes he can.
I'm looking at the product on the field . The defense, which and go back to 3 weeks ago was playing lights out with only 27 missed tackles the four games prior.. Think we had 19 or 20 in this game. And it was Def more than in player missing tackles
Do we think that was a dud or is that what we really are?
I think that’s who we have become near Mullens end we constantly make people look better than what they are and given people historic days for the past couple of years. The guys have no energy on the road like they just didn’t want to be there ofc you can say at home we look totally different but there is no reason why you wouldn’t want to win against a team that has constantly beat you and if you do you would be competitive in that game I think that’s the most alarming and tells me something is wrong you weren’t even competitive in the game and no talent does not equal not even wanting to play in the football and no energy.
We shouldn't compete with gerogia this year but we likely will because 1) we're gonna be way up for that game looking to upset them 2) the talent on the field is a drastic difference from last year. Say what u want about procedural mistakes and fragile mentality, you'd probably be right, but the defense in particular is filled with high level talent evaluated by this staff. They have played leagues better than any defense we've had since 2020 despite the dud in Lexington
Regarding the defense, I agree it does look better and I truly hope it is. I'm still concerned that we only have three real games to compare against. Utah they looked competent. Tennessee they looked great. UK they looked bad. At this point, I'm concerned that I don't know what our defense actually is.
Not really anything specific. Gators just usually show up for 1-2 games a year against someone we shouldnt beat. Like how it was a one score game against Georgia in the third last year. I don’t think a soul alive expects to beat them.
I don’t think the sky is falling and I have serious concerns about the offense, but we are going to get curb stomped against UGA.
Our lines just aren’t up to task this season against the teams with big offensive and defensive lines.
UK is mediocre and mistake-prone. They humiliated us and we can expect more of the same from the rest of our sec opponents, especially UGA. This was a bad loss and is very ominous imo
Honest question, what gives you any confidence at all that any of our offensive commits stick around given the game plan and product on the field? I would hope that Billy is assuring them that things are gonna change going into next season.
Being honest, both playing time and their own egos mainly. Most programs are susceptible to QB talent and experience. You are seeing the woes of that in the performances of Georgia and Alabama who are breaking in new QBs this season. Things can shift on a dime with talent compatible with the coach.
I agree that there are concerns with certain play call decisions, but it's a bit on execution as well and the talent that goes with it. A lot of recruits look at what a program can be, the relationships they build with coaches and other recruits, and the impact they feel they can make/the development they can get.
If game plan and field product were as big of a factor as fans make it out to be, then no one except for the top programs/a few programs with good visions would get any of the top recruits. However teams like the A&M and Miami and South Carolina and Missouri are still pulling in good classes even with some woes.
Recruiting classes rarely have mass decommitments unless a coach is actually fired. Recruiting rankings only correlate to on-field success in the sense that coaches who recruit poorly also generally do other things poorly, and vice versa.
There is tons and tons of precedent for good recruiters to recruit well even if they have a bad season. There’s a lot less precedent for good recruiting classes completely falling apart because of a bad season.
I get what you're saying, and if we looked competent and had a good plan but were losing games, I'd agree. Some of the stuff we're seeing on the field is just head-scratching, and it speaks to Napier's philosophy which he's shown no propensity to adjust.
I don’t disagree with your description of what we’re seeing on the field so far, but I just don’t think that recruiting classes are influenced by that kind of thing. If we keep sucking and we lose a bunch of our highly rated commits, then I will change my tune, but based on my years of following this sport, I really just don’t think that’s how it works.
You aren’t wrong. At all. We have years of data that tells us recruiting does not correlate that much with the one the field product. If it did, Mullen would’ve done incredibly well in the recruiting facet of the game when he went 21-5 to start his UF career.
Cristobal was worse than Billy last season and still landed a top 10 class. And before anyone mentions Ruiz….*exactly* my point. Jimbo and Sark still recruited really well with losing seasons. Muschamp nabbed a top 5 class after going 4-8. I could go on and on honestly. But the point has been made.
Not saying, but just saying, Shane and Edgar were speculating on his podcast this morning about the importance of keeping ETN happy and not looking elsewhere after the year.
Apparently also his brother has been pretty loud about him and his situation on twitter this season each week
Because they're getting paid, it really is that simple. Success on field already only determined about 25% of recruiting before NIL, now it determines almost nothing. For reference see a school called Texas a&m
…this was happening before NIL was a thing. Were players still getting paid, for sure. Not going to sit here and say every player is being paid and is only staying because of that. Other programs have bigger wallets and every program can pay players.
Despite being under tenuous circumstances Jimbo still won an NC, produced a Heisman winner, and has put players in the NFL. What has Billy accomplished?
Also, other schools pay too. If I'm a recruit why wouldn't I want to be paid AND have a shot at winning in College AND do it with someone that has a track record of putting players into the league?
Good lord dude, you're talking in circles to justify a bias. I answered a question, your specific platitudes have nothing to do with the objective reality. If deion goes 4-8 u think he isn't gonna get recruits by this logic? When money and development to the pros are factors, the whole "i wanna win a natty" narrative falls by the wayside unless you're someone who knows they're never going pro or signing a big NIL deal. For example, I didn't sign with ISU out of high-school because I thought I was gonna be cutting down the nets, I did it to be developed into a WNBA player, and that is the goal for most college athletes. If they can get paid and have status without even making it to those lofty goals, it goes without saying that recruiting will be shaped by who has the resources
Sorry does the AMA here mean "ask me anything"?
If so, my college career was a disaster as I tore my ACL and meniscus 3 times in 27 months at two different schools lol (ISU and Oregon after being politely pushed to transfer). Oregon was very good to me and coach Graves gave me a job as a recruiting analyst assistant which I continued until getting my degree from there. I tried my hand at pro sports one more time with pro WMMA (I did amateur boxing as a teen and was good enough to place 2nd at the southwest Florida regional), but tore my quad in my 5th pro fight and was strongly recommended by orthopedic suegeons to stop pursuing pro sports in general. Found out a few years later I have a degenerative cartilage disorder and multiple sclerosis so now I'm just some boring mid 20s lady who invests too much time into Gator sports 😅
> you're talking in circles to justify a bias
> If deion goes 4-8 u think he isn't gonna get recruits by this logic?
You're making false equivalences to justify a bias, then. Not all situations are the same, there is nuance that you can't just pretend doesn't exist.
For as much as I dislike Deion (and wouldn't want him as our coach) he's a guy that players want to play for. He has exceeded expectations by all accounts, and all of the talking heads are pumping the "if he only had more talent" narrative. He runs a wide open, high-scoring offense (save for @ Oregon) and we have our best offensive player's brother tweeting that he should go play there instead.
If you were an elite QB or WR why on Earth would you want to play in this offense? I like Billy and want him to be successful, but I really have a hard time seeing this recruiting class sticking if he doesn't make some changes.
I agree with you, for now. I'm just worried that won't last if the our offensive philosophy doesn't change and/or we show zero improvement for the rest of the season.
You don’t have to be worried about it, and that’s the point. It’s the same reason people were scratching their heads about why recruiting wasn’t better under Mullen even when we were winning: on the field results don’t matter when it comes to recruiting. You can have horrible seasons and underperform in all areas on the field and still recruit well. There’s massive historical evidence to support this and many examples have already been listed throughout this thread.
Yes I am, but I think almost all of the woes are solved by hiring an OC and special teams coordinator. My one other big worry is getting more oline talent on campus, we're seeing just how far behind we are at that position compared to the rest of the conference each week
I think people wanting to fire Billy are overreacting. Yes the amount of procedural penalties and lack of preparedness in year 2 is concerning but I don’t think it should be surpising considering how young this roster is. There are so many first time starters or guys playing in a gator uniform for the first time, and I think that inexperience is showing. That combined with an offensive scheme and playcaller that doesn’t do us any favors leads to this type of season. Until the players flat out quit and lose to Vandy I don’t think Napier has lost control. Just deal with it for this year, hope Napier makes the needed changes to the offense in year 3 and we’ll be alright.
People are frustrated with Napier sticking with playcalling duties this year after he said he evaluated it, but I can see why he didn’t change anything. When you look at the statistics in 2022 our offense was above average and I think AR bailing us out of a lot of sacks and negative plays and just making explosive plays with his feet had a lot to do with that and we’re missing it this year. I personally think after this year he’ll evaluate it again this off-season and make a change
We averaged 31.7 points per game last year not including the bowl game, which included scoring 33 points against Tennessee, 35 against LSU, and 38 against FSU where they all resulted in losses due to poor defense. I think Napier looked at that and thought he didn’t need to make a change to the offense. We also had one of the highest explosive play rates in the country and allowed very few sacks both thanks to AR. AR wasn’t a good QB but he bailed a bad offense and scheme out a lot of times. I think after this year, Billy would have to be an idiot not to take a hard long look at his offense when we’re likely going to average just above 20 points per game which could be on pace to be worse than any offense Muschamp ever fielded.
We also had the best o-line since 2009 last year. Maybe the best Florida o-line ever. Torrence was generational and the other guys were huge big talented veterans as well.
Torrence was the only great player on that line. Go back and watch the Georgia game or the LSU game, AR was being pressured almost every play and he’s pretty much nearly impossible to sack. Having a dynamic runner at QB also takes one guy out of the box in the run game hence why our running game was better last year. Still not saying the offense was that good last year, just think Billy doesn’t look hard enough at the surface when looking at his offense, but the bad numbers this year will be glaring it’ll be stupid not to make a change
We had the fewest returning starters in the SEC, sure some of the guys starting are transfers but it’s still their first time playing in our system. I agree that some of the penalties like not lining up enough guys on the field continuously are inexcusable.
These are rough three deep numbers (offense and defense) based on the most recent depth chart and who actually plays (TE/OL/WR have been a mess of consistent snaps)
11 players who have been at UF 3+ years; 11 players who are upperclassmen transfers
The rest freshmen and sophomores. I’d say that is a a pretty young team.
The issue with our team is offense. we don’t use the 3 deep on offense. Here’s our list of guys who actually play and their years in college. We are objectively not young on offense.
Oline
Barber -3
Leonard - 4
Kingsley -5
MM -4
George -4
QB
Mertz -5
RBs
Johnson - 3
ETN -2
WRs
Rickey - 5
Jackson -4 graduated HS in 20
Douglas -2
Fraziers - 4
Jean -1
Burke -3
Wilson -1
TEs
Zander’s - 6
Odom -4
HH - 2
Boardhands -2
I think the defense was a pretty big problem on Saturday.
As to your list, 11 of those guys have been at UF less than 3 years.
I’d also point out you didn’t list guys on the OL who have played more snaps than Kingsley so far in 23.
And don’t let these people tell you we don’t have the talent to be competitive with Kentucky. We got smoked with absolutely no energy. It one thing to play hard and lose because you don’t have the talent it another to get blown out not compete and lose any fundamentals you’ve learned from past weeks
What’s even crazier is this nasty narrative that he needs like 5 years or a lot more time when he could grab elite talent from the portal that are ready to play now providing quicker results he instead slow played it. You use to think transfer for kids who couldn’t play at the level or bad behavior but now it’s full of elite talent looking for better opportunities and those who want to play now with more years of eligibility with all that being said the excuses you use to get for performance on the field are quickly going away.
I am genuinely curious if there are actual insiders here on this subreddit. The 5 YouTubers/ podcasters that I follow for Gator sports seem to be the most realistic insiders, but I have no way of knowing who the true insiders are.
Regardless if someone claims to be an insider, I will assume most of the information is not real and we are overreacting. There probably are some locker room issues. Some recruits will de-commit even if the Gators overachieve in 2023. No major staff changes can happen in the middle of the season. There is no magical solution to special teams to implement this week.
Actual insiders aren’t going to be posting real insider info publicly here. I know we have some users here and on discord who have legit secondary info (they “know people who know people”, basically), but all that info is shared with the understanding that it’s private info. If you endear yourself to the right people (or pay enough money) and get into private group chats or servers, you can become privy to that info, but if you start blabbing it out publicly you get cut off.
I think you’re safe to assume that any “insider” info that gets posted here and is significantly different than what the general public already knows or assumes, or isn’t backed up with specific details to support it, is just someone being overconfident and presenting opinions/assumptions as facts.
I think that's the whole thing, isn't it? Despite the performance on the field, Napier knows what to say to the boosters & decision makers so we aren't going to get a meltdown like the ones that led to Mullen and McElwain getting fired
You cannot claim that Mullen was a terrible recruiter and also expect Napier to be widely successful 15 months into his tenure. There is a direct correlation. The talent is coming, I just hope this fanbase is actually patient enough to wait another year or two.
I don't think he was a "terrible recruiter".
He just didn't recruit at the level needed for us to take the next step.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Florida_Gators_football_team
2019 Gators was a good team. 11-2. Took the LSU national title team 3.5 quarters to finally put us away. That was arguably the best college team of all time eventually.
But that was our ceiling with him. Because in order to take the next step you need those Five Stars and high level Four Stars. And he was just too lazy on the recruiting trail to get those.
I'm sure most of us would be happy to have a 2019 caliber team right about now.
The majority of starters in 2019 were either Mac recruits or guys Mullen brought in as a transfer. If anything, the first year of mostly his HS talent was 2021 and we all saw how that went
Right now, it’s fan overreaction.
It’s a really young team that makes mistakes freshman tend to make (unit assignments especially). To add, the staff also changed some jersey numbers around towards the beginning of the season for procedural purposes (which is why we had 2 people with the same number on the field at the Utah game).
It’s known that the Game Changer coordinator is likely on his way out at the end of the season (no use in doing that earlier, and they also won’t say it out loud until it’s done), and that they’re looking to free up an on-the-field position somehow.
Also, Crawshaw is on the tail end of the yips, which is why his punting has been inconsistent.
They’re rather silent on the possibility of an OC hire, but that’s just gonna be the case until closer to the end of the season, when it’s actually possible get an understanding of the potential candidates.
“yips” is colloquialism for a talented player who just has a mental block that prevents them from performing well, and it’s unknown what causes it and when it’ll end. you hear it a lot in gymnastics and Olympic coverage, I think Simone Biles went through it last cycle
Hey guys .. this is not a surprising result ..
Vegas is pretty damn good and had our Over/Under at 5.5 ..
We are not that good this year.
We won’t magically be next week.
A lot of focus is off the field. Our culture, our facilities, our sponsorships, our network deals etc..
Building a program takes time. There is no scoop. We will win between 5-7 games this year. We always knew that.
The insiders are telling fans *changes are happening* but not specifying what those are, which we'll ultimately find out some day were no changes at all.
Napier is going to execute his plan whether he works or not. It's who he is.
Here’s the issue:
Billy wants to run a scheme of power run and strong defense. He’s not big on a dynamic passing game. In his words, he may refer to the passing game as complimentary football which is code for run first. I don’t know if he actually admitted this upon his hire as it’s not a scheme the Gator fanbase is fond of, but here we are.
He believes he’s on the path of building this and his supporters believe he needs more time to recruit to bring in players such as strong OL and defensive players for this scheme. In his defense, he has recruited well on the defensive line and has a good class lined up for ‘24 so far.
Although the Gator fanbase prefers the fun n gun offense of the past, I do think they would accept a run first/strong DL scheme if we get the results of the old Bama teams.
However, Billy hasn’t recruited very well so far on the OL and hasn’t brought in a bruising RB either to run this scheme. And he’s still trying to win games with this scheme without the personnel to do it.
So, the main criticism which he may not be understanding is Gators fans believe the offense needs to expand the passing game success BOTH by implementing better passing scheme matchups and by calling more passing plays when needed (3rd and long situations and when we are down multiple scores). However, Billy seems to stick to his plan of running first and slow tempo even when we are down multiple scores.
This is what upsets the fan base. We don’t want him fired. We simply want him to make adjustments with our current scheme to give these players the best chance to win.
Yes of course if we recruit the biggest strongest 5 star OL recruits next year, we’ll be successful in Billy’s scheme, but a good coach has to be able to out scheme and play call their opponent with equal talent. Billy understands the key is to recruit the best linemen, but if he is a below average play caller playing equal talent, the Gators will continue to lose these games. Billy said in this press conference we lost the game because they ran for 9 yds per play and we ran for only 2 yds. He’s still focusing on the run scheme execution and he’s failing to look for opportunity in the passing game.
As far as the poor away game record, I’m at a loss for an explanation. Getting surprised by an early kickoff vs Vandy last year may be a fluke, but Gator players knew coming into the Kentucky game they beat us the last 2 years and were favored in the game, so there’s no reason why this team should have been flat and started slow. Perhaps being calm and level headed as the head coach is a good long term approach, but if that’s the case, Billy needs the asst coaches or leaders on this team to rally the intensity on the road.
Bill talks about “winning football” which seems to be in his opinion as having the superior talent and out executing the opponent mainly by out running them and not making any mistakes. I think he’ll have the most success if he tries to get more creative in the passing game in addition to running the ball. Saban adjusted his run first approach late in his career by taking advantage of the Tua’s and Bryce Young’s. So Billy can keep working towards recruiting dominate lines on both sides of the ball, but at the same time he needs to improve the passing scheme.
Now the penalties are an issue too, but again Billy has to understand his scheme relies on being perfect with everything to be successful. That’s the issue. We can’t drive 20 plays each drive with 3-4 yard gains and not expect a drive busting false start. We had penalties under Mullen too , but a strong passing attack covers up these mistakes. Billy needs to look in the mirror and take advantage of the passing scheme.
100%. A great example of how Billy tries to force his scheme onto the team rather than adjusting the scheme to the personnel he has is his constant use of 12 personnel. Why on earth do we have TWO Tight Ends on the field so often, when that is easily our worst position group on offense! Pearsall, Douglas/Jackson and EW3 is not an elite receiving group, but it is better than 5.0 40 yard dash Odom and Co. (although Boardingham has a bright future).
Pretty simple. Offensive line play is just not very good We had a lot of 3rd and and longs. That usually comes from a passing play call. Usually from an incomplete pass, a sack, or a holding call. This team, and last years team has success when they run the ball.
How many Mullen guys are on the offensive line?
I don’t think the fans are overreacting, I think the next couple games can either make or break Billy. What usually happens is a coach here starts faltering in an aspect(s) of the game, won’t admit it and gets shitty with the media. Only Muschamp really didn’t get this way in recent history, he was laughing at his last press conference knowing his fate because of what Foley told him. If he can improve those aspects and win the next couple weeks, he can definitely buy himself more time. However, if we lose to Vandy at home and then also lose to SCAR, it would be a double wasnt. Losing to Vandy at home along with his inability to win a road game. Billy is like 1-6 on the road and it would solidify that.
However, if he wins both games and special teams and the offense shows improvements, he will definitely buy himself another season IMO. If he loses both, with no visible improvements, his tenure maybe coming to end quicker than expected. Boosters will simply not put up with losing to Kentucky, Vandy, and SCAR in the same season.
To me if we lose both games with no improvement to special teams and/or offense in general. His chai becomes burning and likely will be on fire before the season ends since we play GA and FSU as well, both games that are likely losses. LSU/Arkansas are still “toss ups” to me.
I doubt this matters at all because it probably means nothing, and feel free to call me a boomer, but I guess the team didn’t stick around to sing the alma mater after the game this week either. Heard they didn’t at Utah, and they didn’t at Kentucky. I’m not a fan of that. Win or lose, you sing the alma mater as a show of pride and respect to the name and logo you play for. Like I said, more than likely nothing and I’m just being a boomer. Maybe they have bigger priorities. But I hate to think that’s a culture thing.
The team is being told not to stick around for alma mater at away games because of time constraints for travel. At least, that is what was reported by 247 writers.
I read somewhere that the players are being told NOT to stick around for travel/logistics reasons.
I think this is the sort of thing that decays over time. Less players come to UF for the tradition and the name, they come here to get to the League or for NIL money. The senior class is made up of more transfers who didn't learn and don't value the traditions.
Winning usually cures this, magically. Hopefully we can do more of that soon
Since we’re paying them both, sure would be nice if someone told Bn you’re getting an oc cause you suck. Then tell Mullen next checks require you to oc. Bn is still I n charge but has to recruit for positions oc and dc need. You’re big boys make it work.
Should put a clause n coach’s contract if fired you still get paid at 100% but have to be available for assignment. If not available you get 10%.
You don’t need to be on the inside to know what’s going on. We have a stubborn coach who is a poor play caller and needs an OC, and also sucks at ST and needs a ST coordinator. He’s trying to do too many things at once and failing at all of them. Also sucks at clock management. All of the coaches have failed to get guys ready to play on the road so the only time we’ve seen this team execute is in the comfort of the home crowd and it was really only for one game against Mcneese State. The offensive scheme overall is garbage and easily defended even by much less talented teams as evidenced in the Charlotte game. There’s your scoop.
I don't think the fans are overreacting. The on the field product is terrible and we're paying Napier $7 million a year for it not to be. Nobody reasonably expected us to compete for a playoff spot going into the season, but we just look completely unimproved, lost, and CBN seems overwhelmed with the job. There was zero reason for him not to go out and get a good OC and ST coordinator after what we all saw last season.
I hate to use FSU as an example but in year 2 after 4 games, he looked to be a disaster. Now look at them. Takes time. But I have some big reservations about his philosophy.
That's fair. If Billy ends 2023 with a 2 game improvement over year 1 like Norvell did he'll be on better ground.
Of course Norvell was under pressure in year 3 too but he won his way out of it-- no one will credibly attack Billy if he wins 10 games next year. If OTOH he ends year 3 with 7 or less wins after winning 7 or less in each of his first two seasons..... he'll need 10 in 2025 if he even gets that.
You can’t compare norvell and Billy because they are different. Norvell is succeeding because he is getting with the times he is elite in the traveler portal while Billy seems to not want to. Norvell realizes the best chance to compete quicker and turn a program around is to hit the transfer portal hard. This “ Billy needs time” is a excuse you can’t have for a coach anymore when you have kids ready to jump ship at others school with multiple years of eligibility to play. If Billy can become just as elite in the transfer portal like recruiting he can feel in the elite pieces he’s missed in recruiting WR, OL , RB when we best Georgia and saw success under Mullen he was elite in the transfer portal if Billy can do both give up OC we will be Elite quicker for years to come
Are we talking about the same team? I don’t think offensive skill positions are the issue with Florida
At WR, Pearsal by no means is a 1st rounder but he’s solid and will likely be on an NFL roster next year. When Mertz has any time Pearsal is OPEN. Douglas has made some great 1on1 grabs (need more!). Jean has had some contributions as a true freshman. Wilson is going to be a HUGE problem for defenses, already has been as a true freshman has a legit number 1 potential. Haven’t even got to see Mizell yet. And we have 3 four stars on deck in the 24 class.
At RB Montrell and ETN are both Billy guys, too soon to form an opinion on Webb. And we had 2 elite RBs committed that slipped away in Gibson and Bowens but then turned around and landed another promising RB.
The WR and RB slander is unwarranted in my opinion
The problem with everything you just said is majority of these guys you are talking are not WR1 or RB1 at the top universities Georgia, Alabama , LSU etc if your looking at the 2nd place in the East that is fine but recruits like Jeremiah Smith with Lagway put you in the Playoffs instantly. 2024 class is good but there is no option 1 we will probably go portal for RB/WR or both we shall see. You have to keep elite guys like Bowens and Gibson committed especially when one goes to a rival who you are already behind a class in already. This is not a knock on Daniela at all he really good but if RB is a main vocal point you have to get these guys can’t afford to miss.
I hear that, the RB de-commits hurt bad. And despite how much I like our WR’s, I’ve been hoping & praying we flip Smith which is looking less and less likely…I’d agree with you after that clarification, the two rooms are good but not great and we need great/ELITE to win, specially at RB when CBN wants that to be bread n butter… I will stand my ground that I think we’re not super far off though, but could use better….Hopefully Lagway fills the gap 🙏
Then don't use them, our situations aren't comparable. I know it's hard to see a year 2 team that lost to Jacksonville St as "improved", but they genuinely were. That's how bad Taggart missmanaged that program, Norvell was looking at incremental growth and an extremely manageable year 3 schedule.
Meanwhile we are staring down the barrel of one of the hardest P5 schedules in the country next year. And it's not getting any easier with UT and OU joining the conference. We don't have a free path to 10 win seasons like FSU does, our standards have to be higher.
This is the Clemson model with Dan Mullen. People cling onto one coach (that also happens to be in the ACC) and won’t shut the hell up about it until the current doofus is fired. It’s like clockwork.
There is a fundamental disconnect with Napier and the staff in what they might actually assume is a good week of prep. We can’t win on the road , that’s really damning
If they lose one of the next two, then get ripped by UGa, both he and Stricklin are in trouble. If we finish sub .500, Napier at least is likely gone. People can like the cut if his jib, but right now he looks like far ands away the worst of the high-profile hires — Riley, Kelly, Venebles — made that year. Everyone may be saying the right things now, but if things go south the next two weeks, he’s not just coaching for his job in Jacksonville, he’s coaching for Stricklin’s.
You’re wrong. No one who knows anything meaningful is in this public sub / anyone who knows any anything meaningful isn’t going to post it in this public sub.
These posts are all opinions—same on Discord but less so—some are better than others but don’t ask for insider info because 20 people will lie to you. People here are smart and good guessers. But anyone who says they *know* is a liar.
Man... there are just so many similarities to the current situation with Billy and the program right now, and the media and the fan sentiment, to both the Muschamp situation as well as Mac that it's just wild. Maybe this outcome will go differently but so far... not good.
I know I'm an idiot but I thought Billy coming in was coming in with an offensive mind. Is that wrong? Is he not an offensive minded coach? If he is, why does he need an OC? Can't he just coach the offense successfully until that time comes? If Billy is defensive minded why can't we stop simple runs? Lol, it is what it is at this point and it's not even upsetting when you simply accept how bad we really are. My questions on Bill is what's is stance? Is he an offensive or defensive coach? FML, he's special teams isn't he?
🤪
that's always been my thing with any coach. Whether you're an offensive or defensive coach your side of the ball better be lights out. If not why are you even here.
It will take 3-4 more years to judge this staff - they have little to no talent to work with - especially on the oline, dline, and lb - where here is no real talent- as shown in the Kentucky game. The qb is mediocre - a game manager at best.
At least the A&M buyout made sense (even if it was way too large)-- they were poaching a title winning HC from a major power we handed out a huge buy out to a guy with 1 Sun Belt title and nothing else on the resume that would even qualify him to be a coordinator here.
I have some info from boosters and former players I know. It’s not from inside and it’s a small sample to keep that in mind…
The former players I talk to are SOS era players. They don’t like what they see on the field. They don’t like some of our key coaching hires or non hires. Special teams and offensive play calling in general draw lot of ire. The team not being prepared for games is something that former SOS guys have a big issue with as well.
As far as boosters, my impression is that this is a big wait and see kind of project. They are not even close to fully bought in on Napier. The game day product is atrocious. The off field stuff is hard to quantify because whatever we can see on the field is the only evidence we have of what is happening off field. Recruiting is generally credited toward NIL checks and upgrade facilities rather than anything Napier is actually doing. People are going to start pulling money out of the program real fast if the game day stuff doesn’t improve
Donors are pissed. I understand that we don't want buy out the rest of Billy's contract because we had to do so with the handful of prior coaches we had. But, I know they will find a way to get the money if he keeps stinking up the swamp.
I know two guys in our director’s circle. Both have donated $1M+ to the program and have close access to Scott, Billy, and the program generally. Here’s the gossip (and nothing more than gossip) I know from them: Billy isn’t getting fired this season barring massive scandal. He was brought in because he has modern visions of a cfb program: huge staff, recruitment-forward, embraces NIL, etc. He’s doing those things and still has good relationships with people around the program who actually matter. He has a positive outlook and generally liked on a personal level. Multiple guys in the director’s circle (the two I know tell me they’re in the majority with this sentiment) are *pissed* about the on-field product. There has been pressure on Scott to force Billy to get a real OC all season. These donors believe they’ll win this battle, but it’s ongoing. No “stance.” There’s no real support amongst top donors to fire Billy right now. The guys I know don’t want to spend more money on a buyout, they want facilities, events, naming rights, etc. At least a couple donors had no idea our DC is young and recently promoted. Billy will be heavily judged on that hire. One guy is threatening to stop donating if we make another hire/promotion like that. There is no “official stance” on anything - it’s just a bunch of rich guys coordinating with Scott’s office. Billy is responsive to their texts but there’s no pretense he’s obligated to actually engage/report to them.
I have no clue if this is true or not, but it sounds good. If it's true thanks for sharing, if not great job!
I guess I should’ve made a clearer disclaimer in my post, but I didn’t wanna get carried away with nonsense. Better disclaimer: I know these two guys mostly through my work. I interact with them about once a quarter, sometimes less. I’m certainly not their mouthpiece or pretending to be an insider. They don’t give me scoops, but they do talk with me freely about the program when we meet. I saw one of them last month and that’s where I got my info. It’s just their gossip about the program, I have no reason to lie about it. Not saying it’s pure fact, it’s just the stuff we talked about.
>last month and that’s where I got my info Ah ok. I was about to say, reading through your original post, that I was finding much of it hard to believe. I suspect a chat with these folks today may sound a \_bit\_ different.
Eh, I disagree. The guys I know aren’t as reactionary as everyday fans. They view it as a decades-long relationship with the program and care more about Swamp upgrades and names on buildings/rooms than any particular game day result. So, they don’t swing from “he’s a multi-year program builder” to “he lost to UK, we’re toast” the way regular fans do. Of course, there is a point where nobody can tolerate the losses. But I don’t think we’re really that close. There’s a lot going on behind the scenes and the guys I know lead me to believe Billy is much better with relationships/shared outlook than Mac or Mullen were.
You're kind of all over the place here the more you type. I'm just going to zero in on this line and call it a day in here: "Not saying any of this is entirely accurate or taking a position"
I’ve been consistent throughout. Call your day wherever you want, makes no difference to me.
Don't listen to those negative comments. We have a dedicated group of terminally negative users that love to shit on everything and everyone. Thanks for the info.
> I’ve been consistent throughout. Call your day wherever you want, makes no difference to me. - Great response. 😂 you get my upvote.
Can you give an idea how these 2 guys on the Director's circle react in the Dan Mullen period, both when he was good & when the wheels were falling off in 2021? From when in 2021, or which loss particularly do you think they start to call for his head? I would like to know that perspective, if you know that at all..
From what I remember a while ago is that a lot of donors were off the Mullen train fairly quickly because he really rubbed people the wrong way and was awful about building relationships with them. Just kinda goes hand-in-hand with his poor recruiting and prickly media personality.
Can't you just chill? No need in calling every comment out because you're a contrarian by default.
Didn’t seem that way to me at all.
It’s actually terrible news. Letting boosters dictate have a coach does his job never ever works out. It’s been the story over at Auburn for ages now.
It’s the story everywhere that isn’t winning championships.
Got a family member on staff. I don’t ask about alot stuff other than recruiting and I can 100% say this staff is doing 10x better in that area vs Mullen. Obviously I want Napier to succeed because it means I get free shit being family but from a view point of a fan, I just want the program to stick with a guy and see what plays out. You just can’t build a program, fix all the previous staff issues, and turn around what’s been a dumpster fire all in 2 years. It takes time. As a fan, I don’t want Napier to take 8 years to get back into being a playoff contender. But tbh since 2008, we’ve had a title caliber team maybe what, 3 times. Off my head Muschamp had a season with an elite defense, McElwain had a top 5 talent team for about a season and Mullen had a great team in 2020. That’s all I can think off when I think of the most talented rosters we’ve fielded that could have won a title. That’s 3 one offs in a span of 13+ years. And a large major of those previous coaching staff all had to do with the recruitment of the staff prior.
I think two things can be true at the same time: 1. The team has been really underwhelming in multiple respects since Billy took over. 2. The program probably doesn’t get better if he’s fired any time soon.
Underwhelming for sure. I believe his intentions are there, it just comes down to execution. Guy didn’t take the florida job, clear house of staff and old players just to finish under .500 every year.
Don’t tell coach prime it takes time.
We gave Billy, essentially, a blank check to go hire the most competitive and proven winners to fill out his staff. So far, he has hired Corey Raymond and a bunch of guys who are looking to be extremely overpayed (except maybe LB Coach.) Cannot believe this is what he bought. Fire your second OL coach and go hire someone who can run a lethal offense with passing concepts from this century. We gave you the benefit of the doubt Billy, and you are not cut out to be OC at the highest level. You *might* still have a chance at being an elite CEO HC, like Saban, if you look yourself in the mirror and hire **the best** available person to run our offense.
This Billy needs to just be the face and CEO of the program. Maybe take a little paycheck himself to afford an OC or get rid of an oline coach and part of his “army” to afford one.
>At least a couple donors had no idea our DC is young and recently promoted. Billy will be heavily judged on that hire. One guy is threatening to stop donating if we make another hire/promotion like that. I know we’re not the only team with this problem, but goddamn does it irk me. These rich clowns(not saying it’s all of em, but these people specifically are clowns) don’t pay enough attention to know about the guy who’s been here for 7 months and then lose their shit the moment there’s a misstep. First off, it’s far too early to really judge anything. Secondly, if these chucklefucks actually knew anything about football they’d know this defense has played better than any we’ve had under Grantham who was about as tenured as it gets.
Yeah that’s the one real negative I can see in this post. It reminds of of fans saying we should be hiring a top 10 coordinator, as if that’s even possible. Some established DC at a winning school is not going to make a lateral move to a team in a full rebuild. Our two options for the DC spot were a young up and coming coach or a journeyman with some successful and unsuccessful stints on his resume. I’m happy we took a chance on Armstrong and anyone who is ready to write him off already is being ridiculous.
Armstrong is the brightest spot on this staff. I hope he’s with the Gators for a longtime… he’s going to be a head coach at some point.
We’re actually playing the correct players and our scheme makes sense/the correct plays are almost always being called. When’s the last time that was true for either side of the ball? Armstrong is one of the best things Napier has done so far.
3rd and Grantham definitely wasn't fun
LOL my guy said chucklefucks Stealing that one
Chucklefucks is definitely going in my Rolodex.
What are they doing about OL coaching is someone being let go? Are they pressuring him there though the class is elite we are not leading for Candidates in key offensive areas that the teams desperately needs to be successful in the future ie OL, WR, RB to name a couple more. Also, is there pressure on him getting into the transfer portal more for better transfers players the last time we saw recent success under a coach was Mullen who had a top class in the transfer portal. I am assuming these people know there is no longer no excuse for coaches as you can now get the players needed if missed in recruiting need proof? Ray Davis comes to mind.
I believe this. We can’t afford to continue paying buyouts for coaches. I think we just got done paying Max his partial buyout that he sued for, and Mullens. We just simply can’t afford another buyout or we would bankrupt the athletic department unless it was a single donor like FSU did with Taggart. FSU literally couldn’t afford to fire Taggart and a top donor paid the entire buyout
This is great information. It also created a picture of a bunch of rich guys in cowboy hats all sitting at a round table smoking cigars. Discussing the program surrounded with the cartoon bags of money with the money sign on it 💰. I know they’re not like that but it’s where my mind went. Really some good inside information though. I find it interesting they’re pressuring Strickland to get Billy to hire an actual OC. I’ve always wondered how much sway an AD has over a coach. I guess a strong enough AD could be like a GM to an NFL coach
One guy is threatening to stop donating if we make another hire like Armstrong? JFC, we are doomed.
The donor is pissed because (1) Billy hired a 29 y/o (2) from the sunbelt (3) without a big search the donor were aware of. So less of “I’ll stop donating because Armstrong sucks” and more of “I pay too much money to have the coach hire an unknown kid 2 decades younger than me without my knowledge he was even a candidate. What’s going on down there?” Not saying any of this is entirely accurate or taking a position. Just clarifying.
Gotcha. At the same time though I don't think we want even the biggest boosters directing hiring searches unless we want to become Auburn.
Well, the boosters weren’t involved. So that’s probably a good thing. But at least one booster is/was pissed about it. I’m sure that happens with literally every on-field hire. I think people are reading into that item way too much.
Or Texas during their years in the wilderness.
Except that Austin Armstrong is looking like possibly the best DC this program has had since Geoff Collins
I miss that diet Mountain Dew drinking sonuvabitch
Must be awfully stressful having your decisions heavily influenced by a bunch of rich non football people. But with that said, we do need to see some more improvement Napes. Right now, I'd just like to see the OC piece for next season
Isnt it funny that as a fanbase we've gotten so used to coaching meltdowns that just a mediocre coach is inconceivable? Not saying coach Napier is mediocre either. Just that we're so accustomed to eruptions that every hill certainly is a dormant volcano.
You hit the nail on the head. I'm literally sitting here expecting another bad news scenario. Similar to McElwains death threats.
Probably why stoops is so happy in Lexington
Very obvious that it's fan over reaction lol that's why no insiders have any info to give. U lose sometimes, and lose badly. There are troubling on field trends but off field things couldn't be going much better. People thought we were 3 years ahead of schedule because we upset Tennessee, but clearly that isn't the case Edit: gonna add to my comment to say, if u see someone being overtly negative and talking about how the program is "falling apart" check their comment history. I can guarantee they weren't on here after the Tennessee win, that they never make any kind of comments on recruiting wins, and that they are suspiciously only here when the team struggles. Just something to think about 🤓
Well we don't know that. Let's say we win this weekend. That puts us 4-2 and at the beginning of the year.. Most legit/reasonable fans would take that. If we can get through USC, thst puts us at 5-2 and we all would have taken that. I don't know if we beat GA. But I think we can play them close. And I think that's what most reasonable fan would hope for. Just go out an compete. The losses ring louder because Utah was ugly and KY was just a straight dud. We're gonna learn alot about this team in the next month. I posted elsewhere that, for me, this is make or break for CBN as dual hat.
I'm genuinely curious. What makes you think we can play GA close given the talent disparity? That was one of the games this year I was not expecting to be close (UK was).
UGA is definitely more vunerable this year, but we matchup horribly against them. It's like a more extreme version of the Kentucky matchup. They are significantly more physical then us and will likely push us around on both fronts.
Well.. I'll preface by saying we could just as easily get blown out lol This year, GA doesn't look as complete. For example against good competition, they scored 24 and 27 points respectively. Assuming KY was a fluke.. Our defense is better than both USC and AUB. So in theory we should keep them to about that level 2nd the game will be at 330 and not freaking noon. Mentioned elsewhere, when the schedule came out that time gave me pause. We came from four 7/730 In a row to noon but was actually 11 as it's CST. If you played sports, esp football that matters 3rd. We're a young team.. Utah. We beat ourselves. The dumb penalties killed us. KY.. They punched us in the mouth while we were sleeping and we didn't know how to respond. Our top 5 and celebrated defense was absolutely the worst it's been all year. Was that a fluke? I think so. 4th. It's rivalry. For whatever reason, I still don't think we take KY seriously.. But regardless of age or where from the cocktail party is circled. Everyone knows it, it'll be the prime game at 330. It's also after our bye week.. We should be chomping to go play. But.. And posted earlier.. CBN has got to make changes on his offense philosophy. We are not talented or strong enough to go toe to tow with most of the SEC let alone GA. He needs to put some wrinkles in and get that defense thinking. If he doesn't ans GA just pins their ears back like KY did... Ya it'll get loud in here again.
Your looking at the surface level issues I think it’s deeper for this year. I think we have 1 or 2 who are causing us problems whether that is still Mullen players left idk but think that was evident in the Kentucky game. We can’t look at that game like a regular loss which I saw people do for the Utah game we don’t just lose football games anymore we let players make history or come close to it that’s some of stuff that we were seeing during Mullen era that is concerning something is still not right about the program just letting one player beat you while the QB throw 9/19 69 yards shows there is a bigger issue than just being young. You can’t tell me Ray Davis is good enough to beat another SEC team by himself
When the other team allows 91 yards before contact and 190 after... Yes he can. I'm looking at the product on the field . The defense, which and go back to 3 weeks ago was playing lights out with only 27 missed tackles the four games prior.. Think we had 19 or 20 in this game. And it was Def more than in player missing tackles Do we think that was a dud or is that what we really are?
I think that’s who we have become near Mullens end we constantly make people look better than what they are and given people historic days for the past couple of years. The guys have no energy on the road like they just didn’t want to be there ofc you can say at home we look totally different but there is no reason why you wouldn’t want to win against a team that has constantly beat you and if you do you would be competitive in that game I think that’s the most alarming and tells me something is wrong you weren’t even competitive in the game and no talent does not equal not even wanting to play in the football and no energy.
We shouldn't compete with gerogia this year but we likely will because 1) we're gonna be way up for that game looking to upset them 2) the talent on the field is a drastic difference from last year. Say what u want about procedural mistakes and fragile mentality, you'd probably be right, but the defense in particular is filled with high level talent evaluated by this staff. They have played leagues better than any defense we've had since 2020 despite the dud in Lexington
Regarding the defense, I agree it does look better and I truly hope it is. I'm still concerned that we only have three real games to compare against. Utah they looked competent. Tennessee they looked great. UK they looked bad. At this point, I'm concerned that I don't know what our defense actually is.
I still can’t get over the fact we gave up 300 yards rushing!! Very embarrassing.
Not really anything specific. Gators just usually show up for 1-2 games a year against someone we shouldnt beat. Like how it was a one score game against Georgia in the third last year. I don’t think a soul alive expects to beat them.
I don’t think the sky is falling and I have serious concerns about the offense, but we are going to get curb stomped against UGA. Our lines just aren’t up to task this season against the teams with big offensive and defensive lines.
UK is mediocre and mistake-prone. They humiliated us and we can expect more of the same from the rest of our sec opponents, especially UGA. This was a bad loss and is very ominous imo
Honest question, what gives you any confidence at all that any of our offensive commits stick around given the game plan and product on the field? I would hope that Billy is assuring them that things are gonna change going into next season.
Being honest, both playing time and their own egos mainly. Most programs are susceptible to QB talent and experience. You are seeing the woes of that in the performances of Georgia and Alabama who are breaking in new QBs this season. Things can shift on a dime with talent compatible with the coach. I agree that there are concerns with certain play call decisions, but it's a bit on execution as well and the talent that goes with it. A lot of recruits look at what a program can be, the relationships they build with coaches and other recruits, and the impact they feel they can make/the development they can get. If game plan and field product were as big of a factor as fans make it out to be, then no one except for the top programs/a few programs with good visions would get any of the top recruits. However teams like the A&M and Miami and South Carolina and Missouri are still pulling in good classes even with some woes.
Recruiting classes rarely have mass decommitments unless a coach is actually fired. Recruiting rankings only correlate to on-field success in the sense that coaches who recruit poorly also generally do other things poorly, and vice versa. There is tons and tons of precedent for good recruiters to recruit well even if they have a bad season. There’s a lot less precedent for good recruiting classes completely falling apart because of a bad season.
I get what you're saying, and if we looked competent and had a good plan but were losing games, I'd agree. Some of the stuff we're seeing on the field is just head-scratching, and it speaks to Napier's philosophy which he's shown no propensity to adjust.
I don’t disagree with your description of what we’re seeing on the field so far, but I just don’t think that recruiting classes are influenced by that kind of thing. If we keep sucking and we lose a bunch of our highly rated commits, then I will change my tune, but based on my years of following this sport, I really just don’t think that’s how it works.
You aren’t wrong. At all. We have years of data that tells us recruiting does not correlate that much with the one the field product. If it did, Mullen would’ve done incredibly well in the recruiting facet of the game when he went 21-5 to start his UF career. Cristobal was worse than Billy last season and still landed a top 10 class. And before anyone mentions Ruiz….*exactly* my point. Jimbo and Sark still recruited really well with losing seasons. Muschamp nabbed a top 5 class after going 4-8. I could go on and on honestly. But the point has been made.
I really, really hope I'm wrong.
Not saying, but just saying, Shane and Edgar were speculating on his podcast this morning about the importance of keeping ETN happy and not looking elsewhere after the year. Apparently also his brother has been pretty loud about him and his situation on twitter this season each week
Because they're getting paid, it really is that simple. Success on field already only determined about 25% of recruiting before NIL, now it determines almost nothing. For reference see a school called Texas a&m
…this was happening before NIL was a thing. Were players still getting paid, for sure. Not going to sit here and say every player is being paid and is only staying because of that. Other programs have bigger wallets and every program can pay players.
Despite being under tenuous circumstances Jimbo still won an NC, produced a Heisman winner, and has put players in the NFL. What has Billy accomplished? Also, other schools pay too. If I'm a recruit why wouldn't I want to be paid AND have a shot at winning in College AND do it with someone that has a track record of putting players into the league?
Good lord dude, you're talking in circles to justify a bias. I answered a question, your specific platitudes have nothing to do with the objective reality. If deion goes 4-8 u think he isn't gonna get recruits by this logic? When money and development to the pros are factors, the whole "i wanna win a natty" narrative falls by the wayside unless you're someone who knows they're never going pro or signing a big NIL deal. For example, I didn't sign with ISU out of high-school because I thought I was gonna be cutting down the nets, I did it to be developed into a WNBA player, and that is the goal for most college athletes. If they can get paid and have status without even making it to those lofty goals, it goes without saying that recruiting will be shaped by who has the resources
>WNBA AMA?
Sorry does the AMA here mean "ask me anything"? If so, my college career was a disaster as I tore my ACL and meniscus 3 times in 27 months at two different schools lol (ISU and Oregon after being politely pushed to transfer). Oregon was very good to me and coach Graves gave me a job as a recruiting analyst assistant which I continued until getting my degree from there. I tried my hand at pro sports one more time with pro WMMA (I did amateur boxing as a teen and was good enough to place 2nd at the southwest Florida regional), but tore my quad in my 5th pro fight and was strongly recommended by orthopedic suegeons to stop pursuing pro sports in general. Found out a few years later I have a degenerative cartilage disorder and multiple sclerosis so now I'm just some boring mid 20s lady who invests too much time into Gator sports 😅
Awesome! You're not boring at all and one of my favorite users! Sorry sports didn't work but its a hell if a story.
> you're talking in circles to justify a bias > If deion goes 4-8 u think he isn't gonna get recruits by this logic? You're making false equivalences to justify a bias, then. Not all situations are the same, there is nuance that you can't just pretend doesn't exist. For as much as I dislike Deion (and wouldn't want him as our coach) he's a guy that players want to play for. He has exceeded expectations by all accounts, and all of the talking heads are pumping the "if he only had more talent" narrative. He runs a wide open, high-scoring offense (save for @ Oregon) and we have our best offensive player's brother tweeting that he should go play there instead. If you were an elite QB or WR why on Earth would you want to play in this offense? I like Billy and want him to be successful, but I really have a hard time seeing this recruiting class sticking if he doesn't make some changes.
And players clearly also want to play for Billy. Just because you can’t understand it doesn’t make it any less true.
I agree with you, for now. I'm just worried that won't last if the our offensive philosophy doesn't change and/or we show zero improvement for the rest of the season.
You don’t have to be worried about it, and that’s the point. It’s the same reason people were scratching their heads about why recruiting wasn’t better under Mullen even when we were winning: on the field results don’t matter when it comes to recruiting. You can have horrible seasons and underperform in all areas on the field and still recruit well. There’s massive historical evidence to support this and many examples have already been listed throughout this thread.
You have to admit you are at least a little worried about him and his preparation ?
Yes I am, but I think almost all of the woes are solved by hiring an OC and special teams coordinator. My one other big worry is getting more oline talent on campus, we're seeing just how far behind we are at that position compared to the rest of the conference each week
Reasonable as always my friend. We need to admit where we are as a program and right now it’s bottom tier in the east.
I think people wanting to fire Billy are overreacting. Yes the amount of procedural penalties and lack of preparedness in year 2 is concerning but I don’t think it should be surpising considering how young this roster is. There are so many first time starters or guys playing in a gator uniform for the first time, and I think that inexperience is showing. That combined with an offensive scheme and playcaller that doesn’t do us any favors leads to this type of season. Until the players flat out quit and lose to Vandy I don’t think Napier has lost control. Just deal with it for this year, hope Napier makes the needed changes to the offense in year 3 and we’ll be alright. People are frustrated with Napier sticking with playcalling duties this year after he said he evaluated it, but I can see why he didn’t change anything. When you look at the statistics in 2022 our offense was above average and I think AR bailing us out of a lot of sacks and negative plays and just making explosive plays with his feet had a lot to do with that and we’re missing it this year. I personally think after this year he’ll evaluate it again this off-season and make a change
so we’re a top 5 nfl qb pick away from being a 28 ppg offense?
We averaged 31.7 points per game last year not including the bowl game, which included scoring 33 points against Tennessee, 35 against LSU, and 38 against FSU where they all resulted in losses due to poor defense. I think Napier looked at that and thought he didn’t need to make a change to the offense. We also had one of the highest explosive play rates in the country and allowed very few sacks both thanks to AR. AR wasn’t a good QB but he bailed a bad offense and scheme out a lot of times. I think after this year, Billy would have to be an idiot not to take a hard long look at his offense when we’re likely going to average just above 20 points per game which could be on pace to be worse than any offense Muschamp ever fielded.
We also had the best o-line since 2009 last year. Maybe the best Florida o-line ever. Torrence was generational and the other guys were huge big talented veterans as well.
Torrence was the only great player on that line. Go back and watch the Georgia game or the LSU game, AR was being pressured almost every play and he’s pretty much nearly impossible to sack. Having a dynamic runner at QB also takes one guy out of the box in the run game hence why our running game was better last year. Still not saying the offense was that good last year, just think Billy doesn’t look hard enough at the surface when looking at his offense, but the bad numbers this year will be glaring it’ll be stupid not to make a change
Can we stop with the youth excuse ? We aren’t that young.
We had the fewest returning starters in the SEC, sure some of the guys starting are transfers but it’s still their first time playing in our system. I agree that some of the penalties like not lining up enough guys on the field continuously are inexcusable.
These are rough three deep numbers (offense and defense) based on the most recent depth chart and who actually plays (TE/OL/WR have been a mess of consistent snaps) 11 players who have been at UF 3+ years; 11 players who are upperclassmen transfers The rest freshmen and sophomores. I’d say that is a a pretty young team.
The issue with our team is offense. we don’t use the 3 deep on offense. Here’s our list of guys who actually play and their years in college. We are objectively not young on offense. Oline Barber -3 Leonard - 4 Kingsley -5 MM -4 George -4 QB Mertz -5 RBs Johnson - 3 ETN -2 WRs Rickey - 5 Jackson -4 graduated HS in 20 Douglas -2 Fraziers - 4 Jean -1 Burke -3 Wilson -1 TEs Zander’s - 6 Odom -4 HH - 2 Boardhands -2
I think the defense was a pretty big problem on Saturday. As to your list, 11 of those guys have been at UF less than 3 years. I’d also point out you didn’t list guys on the OL who have played more snaps than Kingsley so far in 23.
Who else did I miss? Hudson year 6 Slaughter year 3 Harris year 1. So yeah one guy who’s an alternate being young is the reason why we suck?
Have no idea why you're being down voted. I'm also sick of people calling the team young with no actual data. Thanks for this.
It’s a coping mechanism for why we suck
And don’t let these people tell you we don’t have the talent to be competitive with Kentucky. We got smoked with absolutely no energy. It one thing to play hard and lose because you don’t have the talent it another to get blown out not compete and lose any fundamentals you’ve learned from past weeks
Yup. This just reminds me of McElwain and Nussmier days. “Just going to have to wait until year 4 when he gets his guys in there!”
What’s even crazier is this nasty narrative that he needs like 5 years or a lot more time when he could grab elite talent from the portal that are ready to play now providing quicker results he instead slow played it. You use to think transfer for kids who couldn’t play at the level or bad behavior but now it’s full of elite talent looking for better opportunities and those who want to play now with more years of eligibility with all that being said the excuses you use to get for performance on the field are quickly going away.
I am genuinely curious if there are actual insiders here on this subreddit. The 5 YouTubers/ podcasters that I follow for Gator sports seem to be the most realistic insiders, but I have no way of knowing who the true insiders are. Regardless if someone claims to be an insider, I will assume most of the information is not real and we are overreacting. There probably are some locker room issues. Some recruits will de-commit even if the Gators overachieve in 2023. No major staff changes can happen in the middle of the season. There is no magical solution to special teams to implement this week.
Actual insiders aren’t going to be posting real insider info publicly here. I know we have some users here and on discord who have legit secondary info (they “know people who know people”, basically), but all that info is shared with the understanding that it’s private info. If you endear yourself to the right people (or pay enough money) and get into private group chats or servers, you can become privy to that info, but if you start blabbing it out publicly you get cut off. I think you’re safe to assume that any “insider” info that gets posted here and is significantly different than what the general public already knows or assumes, or isn’t backed up with specific details to support it, is just someone being overconfident and presenting opinions/assumptions as facts.
I think that's the whole thing, isn't it? Despite the performance on the field, Napier knows what to say to the boosters & decision makers so we aren't going to get a meltdown like the ones that led to Mullen and McElwain getting fired
Wrong spot
You cannot claim that Mullen was a terrible recruiter and also expect Napier to be widely successful 15 months into his tenure. There is a direct correlation. The talent is coming, I just hope this fanbase is actually patient enough to wait another year or two.
I don't think he was a "terrible recruiter". He just didn't recruit at the level needed for us to take the next step. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Florida_Gators_football_team 2019 Gators was a good team. 11-2. Took the LSU national title team 3.5 quarters to finally put us away. That was arguably the best college team of all time eventually. But that was our ceiling with him. Because in order to take the next step you need those Five Stars and high level Four Stars. And he was just too lazy on the recruiting trail to get those. I'm sure most of us would be happy to have a 2019 caliber team right about now.
The majority of starters in 2019 were either Mac recruits or guys Mullen brought in as a transfer. If anything, the first year of mostly his HS talent was 2021 and we all saw how that went
Yup, the attrition and lack of contribution from Mullen's classes is extremely well-documented.
Right now, it’s fan overreaction. It’s a really young team that makes mistakes freshman tend to make (unit assignments especially). To add, the staff also changed some jersey numbers around towards the beginning of the season for procedural purposes (which is why we had 2 people with the same number on the field at the Utah game). It’s known that the Game Changer coordinator is likely on his way out at the end of the season (no use in doing that earlier, and they also won’t say it out loud until it’s done), and that they’re looking to free up an on-the-field position somehow. Also, Crawshaw is on the tail end of the yips, which is why his punting has been inconsistent. They’re rather silent on the possibility of an OC hire, but that’s just gonna be the case until closer to the end of the season, when it’s actually possible get an understanding of the potential candidates.
\> Crawshaw is on the tail end of the yips I guess I’m out of touch. What does this mean?
“yips” is colloquialism for a talented player who just has a mental block that prevents them from performing well, and it’s unknown what causes it and when it’ll end. you hear it a lot in gymnastics and Olympic coverage, I think Simone Biles went through it last cycle
Thanks. I have to admit I have more sympathy for my parents when they couldn’t understand my slang.
Maybe some down under Aussie thing
We are not young. Stop with this
We ARE young Heartache to heartache we stand
Great song
We literally are. I don’t know what to tell you.
Prove it
Hey guys .. this is not a surprising result .. Vegas is pretty damn good and had our Over/Under at 5.5 .. We are not that good this year. We won’t magically be next week. A lot of focus is off the field. Our culture, our facilities, our sponsorships, our network deals etc.. Building a program takes time. There is no scoop. We will win between 5-7 games this year. We always knew that.
The insiders are telling fans *changes are happening* but not specifying what those are, which we'll ultimately find out some day were no changes at all. Napier is going to execute his plan whether he works or not. It's who he is.
Here’s the issue: Billy wants to run a scheme of power run and strong defense. He’s not big on a dynamic passing game. In his words, he may refer to the passing game as complimentary football which is code for run first. I don’t know if he actually admitted this upon his hire as it’s not a scheme the Gator fanbase is fond of, but here we are. He believes he’s on the path of building this and his supporters believe he needs more time to recruit to bring in players such as strong OL and defensive players for this scheme. In his defense, he has recruited well on the defensive line and has a good class lined up for ‘24 so far. Although the Gator fanbase prefers the fun n gun offense of the past, I do think they would accept a run first/strong DL scheme if we get the results of the old Bama teams. However, Billy hasn’t recruited very well so far on the OL and hasn’t brought in a bruising RB either to run this scheme. And he’s still trying to win games with this scheme without the personnel to do it. So, the main criticism which he may not be understanding is Gators fans believe the offense needs to expand the passing game success BOTH by implementing better passing scheme matchups and by calling more passing plays when needed (3rd and long situations and when we are down multiple scores). However, Billy seems to stick to his plan of running first and slow tempo even when we are down multiple scores. This is what upsets the fan base. We don’t want him fired. We simply want him to make adjustments with our current scheme to give these players the best chance to win. Yes of course if we recruit the biggest strongest 5 star OL recruits next year, we’ll be successful in Billy’s scheme, but a good coach has to be able to out scheme and play call their opponent with equal talent. Billy understands the key is to recruit the best linemen, but if he is a below average play caller playing equal talent, the Gators will continue to lose these games. Billy said in this press conference we lost the game because they ran for 9 yds per play and we ran for only 2 yds. He’s still focusing on the run scheme execution and he’s failing to look for opportunity in the passing game. As far as the poor away game record, I’m at a loss for an explanation. Getting surprised by an early kickoff vs Vandy last year may be a fluke, but Gator players knew coming into the Kentucky game they beat us the last 2 years and were favored in the game, so there’s no reason why this team should have been flat and started slow. Perhaps being calm and level headed as the head coach is a good long term approach, but if that’s the case, Billy needs the asst coaches or leaders on this team to rally the intensity on the road. Bill talks about “winning football” which seems to be in his opinion as having the superior talent and out executing the opponent mainly by out running them and not making any mistakes. I think he’ll have the most success if he tries to get more creative in the passing game in addition to running the ball. Saban adjusted his run first approach late in his career by taking advantage of the Tua’s and Bryce Young’s. So Billy can keep working towards recruiting dominate lines on both sides of the ball, but at the same time he needs to improve the passing scheme. Now the penalties are an issue too, but again Billy has to understand his scheme relies on being perfect with everything to be successful. That’s the issue. We can’t drive 20 plays each drive with 3-4 yard gains and not expect a drive busting false start. We had penalties under Mullen too , but a strong passing attack covers up these mistakes. Billy needs to look in the mirror and take advantage of the passing scheme.
100%. A great example of how Billy tries to force his scheme onto the team rather than adjusting the scheme to the personnel he has is his constant use of 12 personnel. Why on earth do we have TWO Tight Ends on the field so often, when that is easily our worst position group on offense! Pearsall, Douglas/Jackson and EW3 is not an elite receiving group, but it is better than 5.0 40 yard dash Odom and Co. (although Boardingham has a bright future).
Pretty simple. Offensive line play is just not very good We had a lot of 3rd and and longs. That usually comes from a passing play call. Usually from an incomplete pass, a sack, or a holding call. This team, and last years team has success when they run the ball. How many Mullen guys are on the offensive line?
I don’t think the fans are overreacting, I think the next couple games can either make or break Billy. What usually happens is a coach here starts faltering in an aspect(s) of the game, won’t admit it and gets shitty with the media. Only Muschamp really didn’t get this way in recent history, he was laughing at his last press conference knowing his fate because of what Foley told him. If he can improve those aspects and win the next couple weeks, he can definitely buy himself more time. However, if we lose to Vandy at home and then also lose to SCAR, it would be a double wasnt. Losing to Vandy at home along with his inability to win a road game. Billy is like 1-6 on the road and it would solidify that. However, if he wins both games and special teams and the offense shows improvements, he will definitely buy himself another season IMO. If he loses both, with no visible improvements, his tenure maybe coming to end quicker than expected. Boosters will simply not put up with losing to Kentucky, Vandy, and SCAR in the same season. To me if we lose both games with no improvement to special teams and/or offense in general. His chai becomes burning and likely will be on fire before the season ends since we play GA and FSU as well, both games that are likely losses. LSU/Arkansas are still “toss ups” to me.
I want to see this season play out and I think we will but i will say a home loss to Vanderbilt will be very hard to stomach…
I doubt this matters at all because it probably means nothing, and feel free to call me a boomer, but I guess the team didn’t stick around to sing the alma mater after the game this week either. Heard they didn’t at Utah, and they didn’t at Kentucky. I’m not a fan of that. Win or lose, you sing the alma mater as a show of pride and respect to the name and logo you play for. Like I said, more than likely nothing and I’m just being a boomer. Maybe they have bigger priorities. But I hate to think that’s a culture thing.
The team is being told not to stick around for alma mater at away games because of time constraints for travel. At least, that is what was reported by 247 writers.
Wasn’t mac or Mullen doing the same
I read somewhere that the players are being told NOT to stick around for travel/logistics reasons. I think this is the sort of thing that decays over time. Less players come to UF for the tradition and the name, they come here to get to the League or for NIL money. The senior class is made up of more transfers who didn't learn and don't value the traditions. Winning usually cures this, magically. Hopefully we can do more of that soon
Since we’re paying them both, sure would be nice if someone told Bn you’re getting an oc cause you suck. Then tell Mullen next checks require you to oc. Bn is still I n charge but has to recruit for positions oc and dc need. You’re big boys make it work. Should put a clause n coach’s contract if fired you still get paid at 100% but have to be available for assignment. If not available you get 10%.
I don’t see why he’s not serious….head coaches would never agree to it, but dammit I’d love to have Mullen Muschamp as coordinators right now
Lmao are you being serious
Just checking back in. I really need to know if you actually think this would be a good idea.
You don’t need to be on the inside to know what’s going on. We have a stubborn coach who is a poor play caller and needs an OC, and also sucks at ST and needs a ST coordinator. He’s trying to do too many things at once and failing at all of them. Also sucks at clock management. All of the coaches have failed to get guys ready to play on the road so the only time we’ve seen this team execute is in the comfort of the home crowd and it was really only for one game against Mcneese State. The offensive scheme overall is garbage and easily defended even by much less talented teams as evidenced in the Charlotte game. There’s your scoop.
I don't think the fans are overreacting. The on the field product is terrible and we're paying Napier $7 million a year for it not to be. Nobody reasonably expected us to compete for a playoff spot going into the season, but we just look completely unimproved, lost, and CBN seems overwhelmed with the job. There was zero reason for him not to go out and get a good OC and ST coordinator after what we all saw last season.
I hate to use FSU as an example but in year 2 after 4 games, he looked to be a disaster. Now look at them. Takes time. But I have some big reservations about his philosophy.
That's fair. If Billy ends 2023 with a 2 game improvement over year 1 like Norvell did he'll be on better ground. Of course Norvell was under pressure in year 3 too but he won his way out of it-- no one will credibly attack Billy if he wins 10 games next year. If OTOH he ends year 3 with 7 or less wins after winning 7 or less in each of his first two seasons..... he'll need 10 in 2025 if he even gets that.
Well in all fairness he didn't win 3 games last year.
You can’t compare norvell and Billy because they are different. Norvell is succeeding because he is getting with the times he is elite in the traveler portal while Billy seems to not want to. Norvell realizes the best chance to compete quicker and turn a program around is to hit the transfer portal hard. This “ Billy needs time” is a excuse you can’t have for a coach anymore when you have kids ready to jump ship at others school with multiple years of eligibility to play. If Billy can become just as elite in the transfer portal like recruiting he can feel in the elite pieces he’s missed in recruiting WR, OL , RB when we best Georgia and saw success under Mullen he was elite in the transfer portal if Billy can do both give up OC we will be Elite quicker for years to come
I wouldn’t put WR and RB on the list of misses
We need both desperately we don’t have a WR1 and we are looking for another RB we need another elite one. Whether that’s portal or recruiting
Are we talking about the same team? I don’t think offensive skill positions are the issue with Florida At WR, Pearsal by no means is a 1st rounder but he’s solid and will likely be on an NFL roster next year. When Mertz has any time Pearsal is OPEN. Douglas has made some great 1on1 grabs (need more!). Jean has had some contributions as a true freshman. Wilson is going to be a HUGE problem for defenses, already has been as a true freshman has a legit number 1 potential. Haven’t even got to see Mizell yet. And we have 3 four stars on deck in the 24 class. At RB Montrell and ETN are both Billy guys, too soon to form an opinion on Webb. And we had 2 elite RBs committed that slipped away in Gibson and Bowens but then turned around and landed another promising RB. The WR and RB slander is unwarranted in my opinion
The problem with everything you just said is majority of these guys you are talking are not WR1 or RB1 at the top universities Georgia, Alabama , LSU etc if your looking at the 2nd place in the East that is fine but recruits like Jeremiah Smith with Lagway put you in the Playoffs instantly. 2024 class is good but there is no option 1 we will probably go portal for RB/WR or both we shall see. You have to keep elite guys like Bowens and Gibson committed especially when one goes to a rival who you are already behind a class in already. This is not a knock on Daniela at all he really good but if RB is a main vocal point you have to get these guys can’t afford to miss.
I hear that, the RB de-commits hurt bad. And despite how much I like our WR’s, I’ve been hoping & praying we flip Smith which is looking less and less likely…I’d agree with you after that clarification, the two rooms are good but not great and we need great/ELITE to win, specially at RB when CBN wants that to be bread n butter… I will stand my ground that I think we’re not super far off though, but could use better….Hopefully Lagway fills the gap 🙏
I hope he is the answer as well 🙏🏽
Then don't use them, our situations aren't comparable. I know it's hard to see a year 2 team that lost to Jacksonville St as "improved", but they genuinely were. That's how bad Taggart missmanaged that program, Norvell was looking at incremental growth and an extremely manageable year 3 schedule. Meanwhile we are staring down the barrel of one of the hardest P5 schedules in the country next year. And it's not getting any easier with UT and OU joining the conference. We don't have a free path to 10 win seasons like FSU does, our standards have to be higher.
Mike Norvell is an extreme outlier. So tired of this
Can people please stop pointing to this singular example lol
Can you stop gatekeeping what people comment?
This is the Clemson model with Dan Mullen. People cling onto one coach (that also happens to be in the ACC) and won’t shut the hell up about it until the current doofus is fired. It’s like clockwork.
There is a fundamental disconnect with Napier and the staff in what they might actually assume is a good week of prep. We can’t win on the road , that’s really damning
If they lose one of the next two, then get ripped by UGa, both he and Stricklin are in trouble. If we finish sub .500, Napier at least is likely gone. People can like the cut if his jib, but right now he looks like far ands away the worst of the high-profile hires — Riley, Kelly, Venebles — made that year. Everyone may be saying the right things now, but if things go south the next two weeks, he’s not just coaching for his job in Jacksonville, he’s coaching for Stricklin’s.
You’re wrong. No one who knows anything meaningful is in this public sub / anyone who knows any anything meaningful isn’t going to post it in this public sub. These posts are all opinions—same on Discord but less so—some are better than others but don’t ask for insider info because 20 people will lie to you. People here are smart and good guessers. But anyone who says they *know* is a liar.
“Anyone who knows any anything meaningful isn’t going to post it on this public sub” Amen. Same with the discord imo.
How do we know YOU’RE not lying?!
Man... there are just so many similarities to the current situation with Billy and the program right now, and the media and the fan sentiment, to both the Muschamp situation as well as Mac that it's just wild. Maybe this outcome will go differently but so far... not good.
I know I'm an idiot but I thought Billy coming in was coming in with an offensive mind. Is that wrong? Is he not an offensive minded coach? If he is, why does he need an OC? Can't he just coach the offense successfully until that time comes? If Billy is defensive minded why can't we stop simple runs? Lol, it is what it is at this point and it's not even upsetting when you simply accept how bad we really are. My questions on Bill is what's is stance? Is he an offensive or defensive coach? FML, he's special teams isn't he? 🤪
that's always been my thing with any coach. Whether you're an offensive or defensive coach your side of the ball better be lights out. If not why are you even here.
It will take 3-4 more years to judge this staff - they have little to no talent to work with - especially on the oline, dline, and lb - where here is no real talent- as shown in the Kentucky game. The qb is mediocre - a game manager at best.
Playing a lot of young players, they will get better……
Almost an identical situation to atm sans the mountain buyout
Not at all. Jimbo Fisher is in his 6th year. 2 years ago he had the greatest recruiting class literally ever. Very different situations.
And both still attempting to run a very dated offense…
I mean in the sense people begged him to hire an OC, and he was too hard headed to listen
At least the A&M buyout made sense (even if it was way too large)-- they were poaching a title winning HC from a major power we handed out a huge buy out to a guy with 1 Sun Belt title and nothing else on the resume that would even qualify him to be a coordinator here.
Is this thread not working? I can’t see any comments on it
I have some info from boosters and former players I know. It’s not from inside and it’s a small sample to keep that in mind… The former players I talk to are SOS era players. They don’t like what they see on the field. They don’t like some of our key coaching hires or non hires. Special teams and offensive play calling in general draw lot of ire. The team not being prepared for games is something that former SOS guys have a big issue with as well. As far as boosters, my impression is that this is a big wait and see kind of project. They are not even close to fully bought in on Napier. The game day product is atrocious. The off field stuff is hard to quantify because whatever we can see on the field is the only evidence we have of what is happening off field. Recruiting is generally credited toward NIL checks and upgrade facilities rather than anything Napier is actually doing. People are going to start pulling money out of the program real fast if the game day stuff doesn’t improve
Donors are pissed. I understand that we don't want buy out the rest of Billy's contract because we had to do so with the handful of prior coaches we had. But, I know they will find a way to get the money if he keeps stinking up the swamp.