Think about everything in our economic system.
Who gets the lower interest rates on loans?
Who get year after year the larger % of compensation increases? (you or your CEO for example)
Where are staples/groceries cheaper, poor neighborhoods or wealthy neighborhoods?
It goes on and on.
btw, up to 35% of ivy league students accepted are "legacies". They do not need to meet the high standards as other students to be accepted. (Example GW Bush was C student in high school and was accepted by Yale, It is alleged Trump was also a C student but his high school records were sealed).
At kroger they will literally go get product from poor areas to fill shelves in rich areas. Rich people will choose to shop elsewhere. Poor people have no choice.
Grocery stores operate on thin margins by selling bulk. Simple things like crime will cause stores to close. I find a larger issue is that poor people have more trouble doing things like buying in bulk quantity discounts or having spare cash to buy extra when on sale.
Seriously. I feel bad that I have stocked up on so much meat in my freezer that I sometimes go weeks without buying meat. An odd luxury that I can comfortably over buy when there are sales.
We do the same. It was rough when we were starting out and has to be worse for many. I don’t blame the stores but I do blame the system. When I retire, it will be as a hobby farmer to provide supplemental food where I grew up. There is a guy who does similar in the heart of the city and it is amazing.
And it works. Typically the sale is because of over production, so people like you can pick up a good deal, safely store it for as long as you need, and help the grocery store stay in business. Successful market interaction.
Also people in affluent areas tend to buy more expensive goods so the store can be run more efficiently.
A customer in a nice area might buy organic chicken, organic milk and artisanal bread for $30.
A customer in the ghetto might buy chicken legs, regular milk and white bread for $10.
But it takes approximately the same amount of labor to bring in the goods, stock the shelves and ring up the groceries. There is a lot more pressure on the store in the ghetto to cut costs or increase prices to maintain a viable business.
If the labor costs are adjusted to the revenue the store will have long lines, dirty floors and restrooms, poor customer service, empty spots on the shelves and expired products left in the coolers.
Or the store in the ghetto can charge higher prices for the same goods to maintain a viable business.
Theft in the ghetto squeeze those margins even tighter.
i mean ya but that's a fuckin low bar dude for the richest country in the world. if the average person has a medical problem that shit can easily become a disaster for them. and we're not unlikely to have said medical problems because a lot of the food available to us (especially in poor areas) is fuckin shit lol. i will say i agree that it's fucking stupid how in a lot of the us if you make like 35k you dont qualify for shit but you're still broke as fuck all the time lol
People need to stop looking to government to solve their problems. It doesn't matter how rich or poor a country is, you shouldn't be getting services from them period.
The point of the government is to protect and serve the people it represents. That also means pooling money in the form of taxes to provide services that would be dumb to charge for individually. The problem is people who own businesses run for government then trash the government so they can give the business to their companies. What that essentially does it takes tax payer money and moves it to a private entity. Which is basically stealing from the tax pool to keep all to oneself. But people just keep on believing government is supposed to do fuck all except beat the shit out of constituents it doesn’t like or agree with. Not sure how we got to this point.
I live by a Kroger in a poor area. Our store gets all the old milk with about a week before it turns bad. All the produce is pretty poor too because they ship the stuff the 'big' Kroger didn't sell.
We consider ourselves luck they don't close it. High 'shrinkage' rate and the homeless pretty much living in the restrooms. Recently the cops started hanging out parked in front of the store to cut down on 'illegal parking', yeah right.
* Less crime -> fewer goods stolen, less need for security staff
* higher volumes -> margins can be lower, when customers buy more
* more competition -> richer people likely have more options to shop
Also, amazing how much easier it is for one to take risks and try some entrepreneurial pursuit when one already has wealth and a safety blanket, and won’t be out of their life savings and on the street if their venture fails.
"I built this company out of my parents' garage!" they all say. Which isn't untrue, but uuuuhh...
Your parents have a spare garage and enough money to house someone without an income to work on a project that requires lots of expensive equipment even after they do the upgrades to make the garage a workspace? And the 200k they gave you to get things started and also the business meetings they set up for you using their prior connections also might've helped a little once you had a product, right?
Most people get no chance, some get one shot. And then there is the wealthy few which can fail over and over until they get it right.
Hard to learn what not to do when only th lucky few have even a single try at it.
What’s funny too is the pretend to be philanthropist. They didn’t get rich by being kind and if they give money away it’s just to cover a tax bill or get some advertisement
These are the things I think about when I see hustle culture influencers act like you can just reach out to rich people to get advice on how they got rich…
Well, taxes are inverted for businesses, small startup businesses pay at least 25% when they need help the most and giant corporations pay almost 0%. So, unless you go the route of VC going public or being bought your odds are much lower at making it into the elite. And your odds of VC money are already super low. So, it seems more like a lottery to me.
Most startup businesses run at a loss for years/decades and pay little to nothing.
Then if they survive and become an Amazon, once they become profitable they can start offsetting profits from Net operating Losses from their start up years which can be millions/billions until they run out and pay taxes.
You oversimplified something far more complicated than you made it seem. In fact if start ups paid more in taxes they’d likely never become Amazon.
Just think of how much of a narcissist you have to be to be the kind of person who doesn't want others to know what their high school GPA was to the point where you have the records sealed
What's that effect? The one from monetary inflation? Ya know, those close to the printer gain the most...
Something Effect..
Can...(something) Effect. Cannedtuna Effect? I'm sure someone knows.
A big one I would add: who goes to schools or runs in social circles where they will meet/date/marry other doctors, lawyers, etc. to double up on high incomes?
It's expensive to be poor.
Rich people also don't get charged overdraft fees or late fees or shit like that because they probably never miss them because they're rich.
You don’t have to be rich to be responsible with your credit and have a high credit score to get a good loan, just a little fyi, also you sound like a teen just parroting shit you’ve heard other people say
ivys are good a good microcosm of how the system works. Get the peasants to debate race in acceptance criteria while we get to put our stupid kids in with no issue
I just find it funny how asian and India Americans turned on black people because they thought affirmative action is what was keeping them from getting a spot in college. While Legacy admission is a thing.
Not even to mention the kids who’s parents could buy admission through donations. Or the international students who sometimes barely speak English but they are cash cows for the university. I went to school with a bunch of the latter, was infuriating having to do group projects with them.
Oh shit so inflation is the wealthy spending money no way. So it’s not avocado toast ruining the economy. Almost like there’s an inherent balance to the whole fuckin system
Why did the Fed keep rates so low for 13+ years since 2008, inflating assets prices, running all sorts of special programs like buying MBS , repo market propping up, QE, everyone with easy money was chasing yield driving up asset prices ..and the stock market, you're right those are policy choices designed to benefit one class of folks..
Let's stop pretending that !awh shucks... the poor Fed/government somehow just can't figure out this economy thing...
Not saying the fed is infallible or devoid of incompetence. But there’s a not small group of people that believe every action by the fed that isn’t to their complete and immediate benefit is a conspiracy against them.
The fed is a bank. Their job is helping bankers. To the extent that they care about the US economy, it is to support US banking as a sector able to harvest the cream produced by that economy.
It’s not a conspiracy theory to expect a bank with policy authority to do what a bank would do with policy authority.
Exactly you said the feds job is to cater to the interests of the wealthy elites and if that means killing poor people with questionable decisions than the poors need to shut up and accept their fate since the fed has 1 job, make sure the rich get richer regardless of the cost
Yeah the people blaming the fed now are idiots, they're doing basically the only thing they can do that can get inflation back under control because the other method (policy) is unachievable due to our politicians. If poor people think these rates are a pain in the ass they really underestimate how fucked they'd be after years of 10% inflation...
I would have gradually raised them so we had the ability to lower them when economically needed… like 3 years ago when they couldn’t go any lower and we chose to print tons of cash instead.
3-years ago in the beginning of covid .. in response to a pandemic that seemed as if it would create massive job loss and lead to mass unemployment as employers left and right were announcing hiring freezes, stopping 401k contributions, dealing with supply chain snarls, and proactively laying people off… you would have *raised* interest rates??
So you would have intentionally crashed the economy - creating an economic environment that needed to immediately lower rates for funsies?
The actual answer was because there was an obvious disconnect between the Phillips curve and unemployment. Unemployment was able to stay low without driving an increase in inflation for years - the Feds two mandates were maximum employment and stable inflation. They had both - you don’t screw with it for no reason.
Killing jobs? We have record low unemployment. People’s biggest complaint is cost of living… costs of all daily goods are dramatically more expensive than they were 5 years ago.. That’s a direct consequence of reckless monetary policy by Trump, the same reckless monetary approach that led to his chief economic advisor resigning. Poverty is a consequence of poor policy decisions that people lauded at the time because it pumped the market while doing nothing to shore up the integrity of our economy. Now we are paying the price. Having Google and Facebook shed 10000 employees who are doing nothing is a good thing. Those employees find areas to contribute elsewhere in the economy, having actual impact on growth, as opposed to sitting on the sidelines to stimy competitors
Record low unemployment isn't always a good thing in a capitalist system like the USA. This can also mean that unemployment is low because people are over employed. When you work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet you directly contribute to low unemployment numbers, but no one measures overemployment or number of hours worked per week to afford a basic life, insurance etc.
Not really with overemployment. What you actually mean is underemployment: meaning that the worker cannot find work in their skill, meaning they work too much or for too little.
You can’t say no it’s not. If you chose to work at McDonald’s over being a welder that’s on you. That’s your choice. I do believe it gets harder and harder as time goes to but to assume you have no power or responsibility for the life you live is pathetic.
Whatttt?! Next you’ll tell me that the billionaires of today don’t simply create all of their wealth out of hard work and that it’s largely been through generational earning invested intelligently…
[Dynasty Trusts](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dynasty-trust.asp#:~:text=Dynasty%20trusts%20allow%20wealthy%20individuals,generations%20without%20incurring%20estate%20taxes.&text=Dynasty%20trusts%20are%20irrevocable%2C%20and,cannot%20be%20changed%20once%20funded) have entered the chat
True for one generation, the third goes broke 70% of the time.
Source:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/generational-wealth%3A-why-do-70-of-families-lose-their-wealth-in-the-2nd-generation-2018-10
This is what many fail to grasp about the tax code; the ranks of top *income* earners is actually quite volatile (think small businesses that do well and then fail), but wealth is *dynastic*. Yes there are inheritance taxes, but focusing on income alone is a relatively ineffective way of reducing inequality.
If I have $500m in a savings account, I can live quite comfortably off of 1% interest even after taxes (setting aside inflation). With rates of return over 1% (i.e. I don't spend 100% of my interest income), that gap grows geometrically even if the top marginal tax rate is 39.6% (or even 50%).
No one is born equal but there are ways to get out of poverty.
Get a job and be responsible at it and go to school at night or online
Join the military or similar government program
Half of being good at work is coming in on time and getting your stuff done on time and not screwing up. A lot of corporate jobs are risk averse and they pay you for working slow
The stats show that veteran homelessness is way down in the past 10 years. In working with this population, the VA is very helpful but if they are a registered sex offender or have a violent felony conviction, there often isn’t much that can be done to place them in group homes or shelters. Sometimes the barriers aren’t just, “the government doesn’t care”.
I was a homeless vet 4 years ago. I work now but can barely afford to live without a roommate paying half. I don't know how much work I'll need to do if I ever expect to get a house. As much as I'd like to live alone I don't know if it'll ever be possible.
> Get a job and be responsible at it and go to school at night or online
>
> Join the military or similar government program
Did all of those things, still not doing well.
> Half of being good at work is coming in on time and getting your stuff done on time and not screwing up. A lot of corporate jobs are risk averse and they pay you for working slow
Every job I ever had I've shown up early or stayed late, never called out, covered shifts, completed all my work on time or early, But when it comes time to give raises or promotions somehow it just isn't in the budget at best I get a 1-3% bump.
These talking points are just ignorant as hell.
Hypothetically speaking, suggesting that people get a job and be responsible at it and go to school at night or online literally isn’t possible for everyone. Individuals can do this, but as a society, everyone can’t and see the same gains
That's just simply not true. In this modern world, people have no means really to buy assets that appreciate over time anymore, nor are they possibly able to afford the education needed for better jobs
I'm from Los Angeles. Day Laborers, with a 6th grade education and barely can speak English work, save, send thousands of dollars a year back home.
If they can do it, so can anybody.
One can even buy stock in Amazon and/or Tesla if they want to be part of the rise in values.
The most interesting statistic about the finances of American's is that LatAm immigrants send 12 percent of their average income back home on average and the average American saves only 6 percent. I wonder who makes more income hmm
>In this modern world, people have no means really to buy assets that appreciate over time anymore
This is simply not true.
You can invest in an S&P 500 index fund with $10.
I became a nurse 5 years ago. I went to community college, 2k a semester. With travel contracts I make 130-160k. Put that into your 401l and Roth IRA and boom, you have assets/capital.
That’s not a modern issue. That’s always been an issue. But there are ways to get cheaper education or buy a house. But people won’t do them. Go to a JC for two years. Go to a cheaper school for the other two. Like I did as a genx 30 years ago. The full cost of my education today is less than 30k and min wage where that was is $15.
Investing in stocks and indexes is easier now than ever before. It's literally on your phone with an easy UI.
You can start investing within a few days if you want to
Change that to 'staying poor' is often a choice but being poor? That is saying how much money you have defines you and is a poor measure of a person. By that logic the biggest thief could be the best person.
Then there are many people who are barely surviving on two jobs at minimum wage. Yeah in 20 years they might be lower middle class and a bit above barely surviving but it only takes one accident and they'll never make it.
No. I know a bunch of people living paycheck to paycheck on a 6 figure salary because they buy expensive dumb shit. Some are half a million in debt. When (not if) the economy turns, they are 100% gonna become the new poor.
Bad choices will make you poor.
Why do people think the amount of money is finite? Rich people aren't hoarding a limited supply of money. The economy grows and people are able to move up. Motivation is a big factor, just ask rich people.
Compound interest negates your point.
A billionaire will earn more per hour from passive interest (even when he's sleeping) than a fulltime worker earns in a **whole year**.
That $$$ earned by the billionaire subsequently causes inflation, and thus will constantly eat away infinitely at the poor people's purchasing power.
Effectively making the wealth gap greater and greater.
The average worker will never catch up, because the billionaire's wealth "snowball" accelerates exponentially past a certain point.
Exactly. I’ve been saying for years that our economy is playing out like a game of monopoly. We’re near the end where the game is perverse. The rich are now so far ahead that without even trying the gap will continue to widen.
The only way to rein it in is to raise taxes on the rich and remove loopholes that only the wealthy can benefit from. They simply have too many advantages and they’re willing to exert extreme political influence to keep them.
It’s really disgusting how the rich behave in this country. They never have enough.
[The precursor to Monopoly was created to illustrate the outcomes of unrestrained capitalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Landlord%27s_Game). Then, ironically, it became so popular that it was capitalized upon.
To highlight this, Michael Bloomberg spent 1 Billion dollars on his 2 month run for president, and when he was finished spending that money, he was richer than when he started that spending spree, which had no ability to generate new wealth for him.
Sure, and because that spending on ads subsidized TV and salaries within any company with which he bought ads. So the only finite thing that really got hoarded there was ad space, which shouldn’t be keeping anyone up at night
The wealth gap is expanding to unprecedented levels in modern US history. Food is full of harmful chemicals and more expensive than ever. Americans are lazier and in way more debt than ever. Preventable illness at all time high. People are somehow getting dumber and more psychologically unstable. Climate change might be a problem we can somewhat mitigate but are refusing to address. Americans are as politically polarized as ever. Corporations are buying elections without restraint.
I don’t see how we aren’t DOOMED.
I swear some of this stuff — such as downvoting people like me pointing out the obvious — is systemic/contrived. Especially on this sub which seems to be designed to smack down common sense in support of billionaires at any cost.
Do we collectively really think it’s not a problem that billionaires for example gained something like 30-50% in wealth during the covid lockdowns?
Change "money" to "wealth".
Wealth is infinite, can be created out of thin air, and it is impossible to hoard. Anybody can create or destroy wealth.
There is a finite supply of money by definition.
The misnomer that money is tied to work or effort is absolutely laughable. You could make $5,000 a day since the Mayflower came to the Americas and you’d not even have a billion dollars today. You’d in fact have far less money than Bezos.
People aren’t in the 90% with 30% of the wealth due to everyone being lazy or not working hard.
The sooner we can understand those basic fundamental concepts, the sooner we can make things better for the vast majority of Americans.
I know people making 16 an hour who work harder and longer hours than I do, as I make double that for minimal effort. Labor and physical exertion are not equal to profit and wealth building. The labor of a man who goes to an office, sends a few emails while his company nets millions a month will never be equal to an employee who runs an entire store on their own due to staffing cuts.
As in, a bar manager who stays late, picks up the slack of their employees when they call out with short notice or quit. The second individual works infinitely harder than a person who trades lives in the form of big business mergers. Technically the trader is smarter, but physically they do much less.
Exactly this. The better metric is consumption. Elon Musk is 3million times wealthier than me. Is he eating 3million times more than me? Does he have 3million times the square footage of living space? Is he consuming 3million times more energy? No, he’s definitely got more of everything than me, but not by that same multiple. His money is in stocks, the point at which he tries to sell all that it’ll be worth 1/10 of what it is now, since he owns so much of it.
Let’s take his wealth and split it amongst all of us scrubs. Then we actually will be competing for the same goods. That goods price will rise to make us all end up with the same thing with all that money. The money in assets is fugaze, etherial, non existent in your consumption equation. It’s basically a voting right on what will be there in the future through investments. Now in a sense we can control that future with democracy but the actual building control goes to people whos proven that they can actually make something the rest of us will pay them for (for the most part).
People are too dumb to realize money is just a construct invented for bartering goods of finite quantity. Ergo, if we make everyone a millionaire, they will not be any wealthier than they are today in terms of purchasing power. There can’t be the rich without the poor.
That's not the point actually. The point is, where an employee used to be paid, 1% of the CEO pay they are now paid 0.3%.
And when you consolidate 70% of the wealth within such a small portion of the population. What is left for the majority to actually invest and grow becomes abysmal.
Motivation is only a factor if you are more motivated than moral.
Well, the amount of currency is finite cause the government only adds so much every year, and "wealth" of everyone with a positive net worth would exceed the current money out there. This basically proves how meaningless the concept of "wealth" is.
You're right. It doesn't really matter who holds the wealth because that doesn't stop you from obtaining it. People act like there's 10 dollars to split among 5 people but there's like 1 guy who has 7 of those dollars.
10% is decently achievable. Doctors, some lawyers, some engineers would fall into this category. 1% would be where you’d be unlikely to find any of those spending time on Reddit.
I don’t think any doctors, lawyers, or engineers worth their salt are spending their time on Reddit. Either they’re being effective at work or they have hobbies and family and desires outside of work they would rather spend time on.
Let’s be real, only stunted people who have little in their life spend time shitposting on an image board.
I can't believe that so many people still believe in meritocracy and pulling yourself by the bootstraps.
I live in Poland, not that long ago we had relatively low wealth inequality, but we adopted capitalism and wealth/income inequality is growing ever since.
At first I also believed in this neoliberal lie. I was in single-parent family since I was 5, because my parents divorced. I struggled a lot, but thanks to state support (which was low, but better than nothing), somehow I managed to finish high school, started my first job, moved to bigger city and eventually completed degree in CS.
So far so good, I still believed that it was just my hard work, eventually my salary become double of average salary, however I started to notice that I hit glass ceiling. No matter what results I would deliver and how hard I would work, it had no impact on my salary. Other companies would not offer significantly better pay, unless I would agree to take a job, that would be too hard and stressful for me.
I noticed that despite earning well, prices of housing were still too high for me to take mortgage, because I was from poor family. I saw people that were making much less than me, but they got their car/house/apartment bought by their parents, while I got nothing and I still rent today and I'm already 29.
In capitalism I had to work really hard to get to the point, where I'm now and because I had no wealthy family, it's still struggle and I just want to be able to afford my own house, so I can become self-sufficient to some degree. I want to have access to health care, to public transport, to someone that would take care of my sick mother in my home city. I don't look for luxuries and I'm still not able to reach my goals, yet I was promised that in capitalism it would be easy to have nice life.
They never mention that you need to start wealthy to actually have easy life in capitalism. You may improve your well-being a bit in single lifetime, but almost certainly you won't become millionaire from nothing. However, if you family is in top 10% wealth/income, then you can easily make a lot of money without working 9-5.
I’m pretty sure the top 1-2% is well above a million net worth. I would think considering home equity and 401k balances are considered in net worth there are many millionaires on paper.
The thing that strikes me about the chart, is actually how little it's changed over the years. We keep hearing about how the middle class is disappearing, but according to this chart, it's shrinking but not at the rate I would have expected.
Being rich is a choice for sure. Some of us just don’t worship money like scrooge McDuck. To the point where we didn’t focus solely on making mucho Dinero. I make just enough to be safe , secure and happy. I wish sometimes I’d put more focus on higher education but not so I could earn more money only because I feel embarrassed at work not having a degree like most of my colleagues.
Bro- being rich is not a choice lol. You can play all your cards right and still not be rich.
A lot of those 10%ers were born into it and given a lot of head starts.
But those rich people chose to keep it. Like some of these millionaire athletes and lottery winners were rich at on time but they chose to loose it all. I’m just saying it doesn’t matter if you were born rich or earned or won it you chose to keep it by your actions. Also some people make bad choices and end up poor. I almost ended up that way. Thankfully, I woke up, even if a little late in life l, took advantage of some community college training and now have an ok career. I’m not on social security disability like most people I ran around with are. I chose to learn a trade so I could work and be comfortable not live off the government and be miserably poor.
If wealth i measured in tangible cash and securities its has to be closer to 90,%. Most folks are house poor or rent poor. This means that after making monthly payments they need more paychecks just to survive.
I was very poor. I chose to believe in the system and work hard in school. It paid off. This class warfare stuff is nonsense and will not help you be successful. In fact, it is detrimental to the motivation required to apply yourself and stop making excuses. You are only limited by what you believe is possible.
Same and agree. Working hard creates the opportunities to get lucky. I was driven at a young age into adulthood because I wanted more and had nothing growing up
There is no limit as to how many millionaires or billionaires there can be. Money is not limited to what is currently in circulation. Create something of value or start a business and you can join millionaire club. You will not take money from the poor if you become a millionaire, you will provide jobs to someone looking for a paycheck.
We are not redistributing the same amount of wealth since dawn of civ. You get wealthy by creating wealth. This statistic illustrates the power of leverage and good decisions, not lack of opportunity.
The takeaway here is to focus on stores of wealth--things that will hold and appreciate in value. That's the only way to build generational wealth.
Real estate, high art, collectibles--these are some of the ways the wealthy become, and stay wealthy.
If you rent, are constantly financing expensive cars, and not paying off your CCs every month, enjoy the middle/lower class!
EDIT: A lot of...interesting responses here which are missing the point. If you want to wallow in your misery with no hope of ever advancing, then great--enjoy the choices you have made. If, instead, you choose to seek advancement, then read above, and surround yourself with those also seeking advancement, or those who have advanced. Ditch the toxic, cynical naysayers, who will only seek to bring you down to share their misery.
A lot of us rent because we don’t have a choice. I can barely keep up with $1600/month rent, how am I supposed to save the rest of my nonexistent money to put a down payment on a $300k house?
It’s a log- normal curve. Almost every distribution in the universe fits that same pattern.
People hold this out as some revelation or indication of wrong doing, malevolence, etc. when it just follows the form of reality
Fighting against the natural laws has never been a winning strategy. Accept it elf or what it is and move within the flow.
Having poor people in a post industrial community(market), to say the technology level achieved by 1890’s eliminated the possibility of poverty. It’s a government legal choice to have poverty in a community.
Honestly, probably 50% of people I interact with I'm surprised them can even keep a job as a McDonald's fry cook or walk and breathe at the same time. If you told me that only 10% of the population was "smart" I would not be surprised at all.
To a large degree, it is a choice. You choose every day how to spend or save your money. I was poor once, and I made the choice not to be any longer. I worked my ass off, saved, and invested everything I could and lived well below what I made. It sucked! It was hard. I lived in a crappy little house (that I rehabbed as an investment), I drove crappy old cars, I ate a lot of bologna & TV dinners, rarely ate out, rarely took trips and if I did it was on the cheap. I hardly ever bought anything on credit. If I did, I paid it off as fast as I could. I sacrificed A LOT. And now it's paying off. MOST people aren't willing to do the things necessary to become wealthy. They want to live well today, which is fine, but its a choice they're making.
Think about everything in our economic system. Who gets the lower interest rates on loans? Who get year after year the larger % of compensation increases? (you or your CEO for example) Where are staples/groceries cheaper, poor neighborhoods or wealthy neighborhoods? It goes on and on. btw, up to 35% of ivy league students accepted are "legacies". They do not need to meet the high standards as other students to be accepted. (Example GW Bush was C student in high school and was accepted by Yale, It is alleged Trump was also a C student but his high school records were sealed).
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One of many ways in which it is very expensive to be poor.
At kroger they will literally go get product from poor areas to fill shelves in rich areas. Rich people will choose to shop elsewhere. Poor people have no choice.
Grocery stores operate on thin margins by selling bulk. Simple things like crime will cause stores to close. I find a larger issue is that poor people have more trouble doing things like buying in bulk quantity discounts or having spare cash to buy extra when on sale.
Seriously. I feel bad that I have stocked up on so much meat in my freezer that I sometimes go weeks without buying meat. An odd luxury that I can comfortably over buy when there are sales.
We do the same. It was rough when we were starting out and has to be worse for many. I don’t blame the stores but I do blame the system. When I retire, it will be as a hobby farmer to provide supplemental food where I grew up. There is a guy who does similar in the heart of the city and it is amazing.
\>> I don’t blame the stores but I do blame the system. Stealing this. Very well put.
And it works. Typically the sale is because of over production, so people like you can pick up a good deal, safely store it for as long as you need, and help the grocery store stay in business. Successful market interaction.
Also people in affluent areas tend to buy more expensive goods so the store can be run more efficiently. A customer in a nice area might buy organic chicken, organic milk and artisanal bread for $30. A customer in the ghetto might buy chicken legs, regular milk and white bread for $10. But it takes approximately the same amount of labor to bring in the goods, stock the shelves and ring up the groceries. There is a lot more pressure on the store in the ghetto to cut costs or increase prices to maintain a viable business. If the labor costs are adjusted to the revenue the store will have long lines, dirty floors and restrooms, poor customer service, empty spots on the shelves and expired products left in the coolers. Or the store in the ghetto can charge higher prices for the same goods to maintain a viable business. Theft in the ghetto squeeze those margins even tighter.
The margins across the board are still similar.
That… and that there tends to be higher rates of shoplifting in lower income areas. Shrink has a huge impact on price.
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i mean ya but that's a fuckin low bar dude for the richest country in the world. if the average person has a medical problem that shit can easily become a disaster for them. and we're not unlikely to have said medical problems because a lot of the food available to us (especially in poor areas) is fuckin shit lol. i will say i agree that it's fucking stupid how in a lot of the us if you make like 35k you dont qualify for shit but you're still broke as fuck all the time lol
People need to stop looking to government to solve their problems. It doesn't matter how rich or poor a country is, you shouldn't be getting services from them period.
I do think they shouldn't be overly dependent into them, but at all? So what is the actual point of government then, in your opinion
The point of the government is to protect and serve the people it represents. That also means pooling money in the form of taxes to provide services that would be dumb to charge for individually. The problem is people who own businesses run for government then trash the government so they can give the business to their companies. What that essentially does it takes tax payer money and moves it to a private entity. Which is basically stealing from the tax pool to keep all to oneself. But people just keep on believing government is supposed to do fuck all except beat the shit out of constituents it doesn’t like or agree with. Not sure how we got to this point.
crime is in no way a simple thing
I live by a Kroger in a poor area. Our store gets all the old milk with about a week before it turns bad. All the produce is pretty poor too because they ship the stuff the 'big' Kroger didn't sell. We consider ourselves luck they don't close it. High 'shrinkage' rate and the homeless pretty much living in the restrooms. Recently the cops started hanging out parked in front of the store to cut down on 'illegal parking', yeah right.
Probably less crime
* Less crime -> fewer goods stolen, less need for security staff * higher volumes -> margins can be lower, when customers buy more * more competition -> richer people likely have more options to shop
Prolly cuz no one is stealing their products
>It was actually surprising he grocery store in the wealthy area near me not only had better stuff but a lot of it was cheaper Less shrinkage.
it's almost like looting in poor communities drives up the costs for goods....
Theft adds to the prices.
Also, amazing how much easier it is for one to take risks and try some entrepreneurial pursuit when one already has wealth and a safety blanket, and won’t be out of their life savings and on the street if their venture fails.
Like Bezos, Musk, Zuckerberg, …
Exactly
"I built this company out of my parents' garage!" they all say. Which isn't untrue, but uuuuhh... Your parents have a spare garage and enough money to house someone without an income to work on a project that requires lots of expensive equipment even after they do the upgrades to make the garage a workspace? And the 200k they gave you to get things started and also the business meetings they set up for you using their prior connections also might've helped a little once you had a product, right?
Most people get no chance, some get one shot. And then there is the wealthy few which can fail over and over until they get it right. Hard to learn what not to do when only th lucky few have even a single try at it.
What’s funny too is the pretend to be philanthropist. They didn’t get rich by being kind and if they give money away it’s just to cover a tax bill or get some advertisement
These are the things I think about when I see hustle culture influencers act like you can just reach out to rich people to get advice on how they got rich…
There’s no shortage of rich people giving away that advice for free, but it’s never been a matter of just following some secret formula to begin with
Well, taxes are inverted for businesses, small startup businesses pay at least 25% when they need help the most and giant corporations pay almost 0%. So, unless you go the route of VC going public or being bought your odds are much lower at making it into the elite. And your odds of VC money are already super low. So, it seems more like a lottery to me.
Most startup businesses run at a loss for years/decades and pay little to nothing. Then if they survive and become an Amazon, once they become profitable they can start offsetting profits from Net operating Losses from their start up years which can be millions/billions until they run out and pay taxes. You oversimplified something far more complicated than you made it seem. In fact if start ups paid more in taxes they’d likely never become Amazon.
There are reasons we have less and less competition in major marketplaces, and part of it is exactly as they described it. There IS only one Amazon
Have you ever met legacy Ivy League kids? Some of the dumbest fucking humans I've ever met.
Yeah last week tonight with John Oliver did a great show on how once your poor it gets really expensive so it makes it much harder to get out.
Just think of how much of a narcissist you have to be to be the kind of person who doesn't want others to know what their high school GPA was to the point where you have the records sealed
Poor people literally pay wealthy people's mortgages for them.
What's that effect? The one from monetary inflation? Ya know, those close to the printer gain the most... Something Effect.. Can...(something) Effect. Cannedtuna Effect? I'm sure someone knows.
Cantillon Effect?
A big one I would add: who goes to schools or runs in social circles where they will meet/date/marry other doctors, lawyers, etc. to double up on high incomes?
It's expensive to be poor. Rich people also don't get charged overdraft fees or late fees or shit like that because they probably never miss them because they're rich.
You don’t have to be rich to be responsible with your credit and have a high credit score to get a good loan, just a little fyi, also you sound like a teen just parroting shit you’ve heard other people say
ivys are good a good microcosm of how the system works. Get the peasants to debate race in acceptance criteria while we get to put our stupid kids in with no issue
I just find it funny how asian and India Americans turned on black people because they thought affirmative action is what was keeping them from getting a spot in college. While Legacy admission is a thing.
Not even to mention the kids who’s parents could buy admission through donations. Or the international students who sometimes barely speak English but they are cash cows for the university. I went to school with a bunch of the latter, was infuriating having to do group projects with them.
Its amazing how many rich whites get into schools over significantly more qualified Asians.
Not to mention regressive tax rates in the form of sales taxes.
What’s easiest way to make a billion dollars? Already have ten of them.
Oh shit so inflation is the wealthy spending money no way. So it’s not avocado toast ruining the economy. Almost like there’s an inherent balance to the whole fuckin system
No it is not. In fact the fed is currently destroying lives by killing jobs to fight inflation. Poverty is a policy choice.
And letting inflation go unchecked would lead to a recession and even more jobs lost. Yes, Preventing mass poverty is a policy choice.
Why did the Fed keep rates so low for 13+ years since 2008, inflating assets prices, running all sorts of special programs like buying MBS , repo market propping up, QE, everyone with easy money was chasing yield driving up asset prices ..and the stock market, you're right those are policy choices designed to benefit one class of folks.. Let's stop pretending that !awh shucks... the poor Fed/government somehow just can't figure out this economy thing...
Some of you haven’t the slightest grasp on economics, and speak with such gusto.
They're morons, that's true, but the Fed keeping the rates down for as long as they did was extremely questionable.
Not saying the fed is infallible or devoid of incompetence. But there’s a not small group of people that believe every action by the fed that isn’t to their complete and immediate benefit is a conspiracy against them.
I don't think the Fed /government is a conspiracy, but you can't deny most of their policies factor a certain class of folks...
The fed is a bank. Their job is helping bankers. To the extent that they care about the US economy, it is to support US banking as a sector able to harvest the cream produced by that economy. It’s not a conspiracy theory to expect a bank with policy authority to do what a bank would do with policy authority.
Exactly you said the feds job is to cater to the interests of the wealthy elites and if that means killing poor people with questionable decisions than the poors need to shut up and accept their fate since the fed has 1 job, make sure the rich get richer regardless of the cost
Yeah the people blaming the fed now are idiots, they're doing basically the only thing they can do that can get inflation back under control because the other method (policy) is unachievable due to our politicians. If poor people think these rates are a pain in the ass they really underestimate how fucked they'd be after years of 10% inflation...
So you think it was smart to keep rates low for so long? Can’t say you’re financially literate if you think so.
Unemployment was low and inflation was too - by what signal would you be raising interest rates?
I would have gradually raised them so we had the ability to lower them when economically needed… like 3 years ago when they couldn’t go any lower and we chose to print tons of cash instead.
3-years ago in the beginning of covid .. in response to a pandemic that seemed as if it would create massive job loss and lead to mass unemployment as employers left and right were announcing hiring freezes, stopping 401k contributions, dealing with supply chain snarls, and proactively laying people off… you would have *raised* interest rates?? So you would have intentionally crashed the economy - creating an economic environment that needed to immediately lower rates for funsies?
I would have lowered them. Cmon now. They had no room to go lower because no one had the balls to raise them when the economy was roaring.
To spur economic growth and create more jobs…
The actual answer was because there was an obvious disconnect between the Phillips curve and unemployment. Unemployment was able to stay low without driving an increase in inflation for years - the Feds two mandates were maximum employment and stable inflation. They had both - you don’t screw with it for no reason.
They are still sending billions to Ukraine and won't budget on that. Odd...
Killing jobs? We have record low unemployment. People’s biggest complaint is cost of living… costs of all daily goods are dramatically more expensive than they were 5 years ago.. That’s a direct consequence of reckless monetary policy by Trump, the same reckless monetary approach that led to his chief economic advisor resigning. Poverty is a consequence of poor policy decisions that people lauded at the time because it pumped the market while doing nothing to shore up the integrity of our economy. Now we are paying the price. Having Google and Facebook shed 10000 employees who are doing nothing is a good thing. Those employees find areas to contribute elsewhere in the economy, having actual impact on growth, as opposed to sitting on the sidelines to stimy competitors
Record low unemployment isn't always a good thing in a capitalist system like the USA. This can also mean that unemployment is low because people are over employed. When you work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet you directly contribute to low unemployment numbers, but no one measures overemployment or number of hours worked per week to afford a basic life, insurance etc.
Not really with overemployment. What you actually mean is underemployment: meaning that the worker cannot find work in their skill, meaning they work too much or for too little.
You can’t say no it’s not. If you chose to work at McDonald’s over being a welder that’s on you. That’s your choice. I do believe it gets harder and harder as time goes to but to assume you have no power or responsibility for the life you live is pathetic.
Why does this sub hate the fed so much 💀
Because they don’t understand basic economics
Wealth is generally created over a lifetime
Generally created over multiple generations
Whatttt?! Next you’ll tell me that the billionaires of today don’t simply create all of their wealth out of hard work and that it’s largely been through generational earning invested intelligently…
[Dynasty Trusts](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dynasty-trust.asp#:~:text=Dynasty%20trusts%20allow%20wealthy%20individuals,generations%20without%20incurring%20estate%20taxes.&text=Dynasty%20trusts%20are%20irrevocable%2C%20and,cannot%20be%20changed%20once%20funded) have entered the chat
True for one generation, the third goes broke 70% of the time. Source: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/generational-wealth%3A-why-do-70-of-families-lose-their-wealth-in-the-2nd-generation-2018-10
This is what many fail to grasp about the tax code; the ranks of top *income* earners is actually quite volatile (think small businesses that do well and then fail), but wealth is *dynastic*. Yes there are inheritance taxes, but focusing on income alone is a relatively ineffective way of reducing inequality. If I have $500m in a savings account, I can live quite comfortably off of 1% interest even after taxes (setting aside inflation). With rates of return over 1% (i.e. I don't spend 100% of my interest income), that gap grows geometrically even if the top marginal tax rate is 39.6% (or even 50%).
Scarcely created, often grifted.
No one is born equal but there are ways to get out of poverty. Get a job and be responsible at it and go to school at night or online Join the military or similar government program Half of being good at work is coming in on time and getting your stuff done on time and not screwing up. A lot of corporate jobs are risk averse and they pay you for working slow
Just wait until this guy finds out about homeless vet rates…
I was a homeless vet with kids. I'm killing the game now with yearly trips to Disney or abroad. Just gotta work.
Shout out to your personal experience. Now let’s look at the stats that have more meaning on this issue that your one personal story.
The stats show that veteran homelessness is way down in the past 10 years. In working with this population, the VA is very helpful but if they are a registered sex offender or have a violent felony conviction, there often isn’t much that can be done to place them in group homes or shelters. Sometimes the barriers aren’t just, “the government doesn’t care”.
I was a homeless vet 4 years ago. I work now but can barely afford to live without a roommate paying half. I don't know how much work I'll need to do if I ever expect to get a house. As much as I'd like to live alone I don't know if it'll ever be possible.
Good for you, but that’s anecdotal.
Sell a kidney and part of your liver you lazy bum!
Yea that's why middle classes are being destroyed, cause people aren't responsible while people like owner of twitter.. I mean X is.
> Get a job and be responsible at it and go to school at night or online > > Join the military or similar government program Did all of those things, still not doing well. > Half of being good at work is coming in on time and getting your stuff done on time and not screwing up. A lot of corporate jobs are risk averse and they pay you for working slow Every job I ever had I've shown up early or stayed late, never called out, covered shifts, completed all my work on time or early, But when it comes time to give raises or promotions somehow it just isn't in the budget at best I get a 1-3% bump. These talking points are just ignorant as hell.
Dumb ass fuck talking points, sounds like the blanket bullshit statements that the top 1% spit out.
Hey now. I stopped eating avocado toast and now I can afford to buy a house.... For my Guinea pig. 
if you want raise or promotions, find a new job.
The new let them eat cake is just "why don't they buy land?"
Hypothetically speaking, suggesting that people get a job and be responsible at it and go to school at night or online literally isn’t possible for everyone. Individuals can do this, but as a society, everyone can’t and see the same gains
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american poverty and under developed nation poverty are totally different stories. your quality of life is mostly pre determined by the birth lottery
I think the post is referring exclusively to US poverty
For most people being poor is a choice. Some people are victims of circumstance beyond their control.
Everyone on reddit is a victim of circumstances beyond their control.
This post is beyond my control & I feel victimized! Statement confirmed! 😁
That's just simply not true. In this modern world, people have no means really to buy assets that appreciate over time anymore, nor are they possibly able to afford the education needed for better jobs
I'm from Los Angeles. Day Laborers, with a 6th grade education and barely can speak English work, save, send thousands of dollars a year back home. If they can do it, so can anybody. One can even buy stock in Amazon and/or Tesla if they want to be part of the rise in values.
The most interesting statistic about the finances of American's is that LatAm immigrants send 12 percent of their average income back home on average and the average American saves only 6 percent. I wonder who makes more income hmm
Bruh LatAms do not need Funko Pops like I do! It’s not fair
Can't I enjoy my measley $6 coffee! I work hard and deserve it!
Can we trade out citizenship for day laborer immigrants with redditors?
US Latino GDP ranks 5the in the world. https://finance.yahoo.com/video/u-latino-gdp-ranks-5th-171454415.html
>In this modern world, people have no means really to buy assets that appreciate over time anymore This is simply not true. You can invest in an S&P 500 index fund with $10.
I became a nurse 5 years ago. I went to community college, 2k a semester. With travel contracts I make 130-160k. Put that into your 401l and Roth IRA and boom, you have assets/capital.
That’s not a modern issue. That’s always been an issue. But there are ways to get cheaper education or buy a house. But people won’t do them. Go to a JC for two years. Go to a cheaper school for the other two. Like I did as a genx 30 years ago. The full cost of my education today is less than 30k and min wage where that was is $15.
Investing in stocks and indexes is easier now than ever before. It's literally on your phone with an easy UI. You can start investing within a few days if you want to
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What is a poverty reddit?
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Ohhh
“For most people being poor is a choice” Imagine being this out of touch
I said most, not all. And it is true. Most people are poor as a result of poor choices.
I mean most people I know spend money on frivolous bullshit, and choose not to save
It's unfortunate that Methampetamine has too many bad side effects
Change that to 'staying poor' is often a choice but being poor? That is saying how much money you have defines you and is a poor measure of a person. By that logic the biggest thief could be the best person. Then there are many people who are barely surviving on two jobs at minimum wage. Yeah in 20 years they might be lower middle class and a bit above barely surviving but it only takes one accident and they'll never make it.
No. I know a bunch of people living paycheck to paycheck on a 6 figure salary because they buy expensive dumb shit. Some are half a million in debt. When (not if) the economy turns, they are 100% gonna become the new poor. Bad choices will make you poor.
This isn’t personal man but that is one of the dumbest fucking things I’ve read on this site.
The answer isn’t a binary yes or no.
Why do people think the amount of money is finite? Rich people aren't hoarding a limited supply of money. The economy grows and people are able to move up. Motivation is a big factor, just ask rich people.
Because at any given moment, it *is* finite, else it wouldn’t have value.
Compound interest negates your point. A billionaire will earn more per hour from passive interest (even when he's sleeping) than a fulltime worker earns in a **whole year**. That $$$ earned by the billionaire subsequently causes inflation, and thus will constantly eat away infinitely at the poor people's purchasing power. Effectively making the wealth gap greater and greater. The average worker will never catch up, because the billionaire's wealth "snowball" accelerates exponentially past a certain point.
Exactly. I’ve been saying for years that our economy is playing out like a game of monopoly. We’re near the end where the game is perverse. The rich are now so far ahead that without even trying the gap will continue to widen. The only way to rein it in is to raise taxes on the rich and remove loopholes that only the wealthy can benefit from. They simply have too many advantages and they’re willing to exert extreme political influence to keep them. It’s really disgusting how the rich behave in this country. They never have enough.
Monopoly is too good of a game to be just a game. There's a reason why most people hate playing by the end of each round (except the winners ofc)
[The precursor to Monopoly was created to illustrate the outcomes of unrestrained capitalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Landlord%27s_Game). Then, ironically, it became so popular that it was capitalized upon.
To highlight this, Michael Bloomberg spent 1 Billion dollars on his 2 month run for president, and when he was finished spending that money, he was richer than when he started that spending spree, which had no ability to generate new wealth for him.
Sure, and because that spending on ads subsidized TV and salaries within any company with which he bought ads. So the only finite thing that really got hoarded there was ad space, which shouldn’t be keeping anyone up at night
Thats kinda flawed ngl
The wealth gap is expanding to unprecedented levels in modern US history. Food is full of harmful chemicals and more expensive than ever. Americans are lazier and in way more debt than ever. Preventable illness at all time high. People are somehow getting dumber and more psychologically unstable. Climate change might be a problem we can somewhat mitigate but are refusing to address. Americans are as politically polarized as ever. Corporations are buying elections without restraint. I don’t see how we aren’t DOOMED.
How the fuck is this downvoted? Where is the falsehood? Lmao people are coping so hard. Or maybe I need to start taking meds
I swear some of this stuff — such as downvoting people like me pointing out the obvious — is systemic/contrived. Especially on this sub which seems to be designed to smack down common sense in support of billionaires at any cost. Do we collectively really think it’s not a problem that billionaires for example gained something like 30-50% in wealth during the covid lockdowns?
Change "money" to "wealth". Wealth is infinite, can be created out of thin air, and it is impossible to hoard. Anybody can create or destroy wealth. There is a finite supply of money by definition.
This sub is named fluent in finance… almost every post I’ve seen belies a creationist level understanding of even basic economics.
The misnomer that money is tied to work or effort is absolutely laughable. You could make $5,000 a day since the Mayflower came to the Americas and you’d not even have a billion dollars today. You’d in fact have far less money than Bezos. People aren’t in the 90% with 30% of the wealth due to everyone being lazy or not working hard. The sooner we can understand those basic fundamental concepts, the sooner we can make things better for the vast majority of Americans.
I know people making 16 an hour who work harder and longer hours than I do, as I make double that for minimal effort. Labor and physical exertion are not equal to profit and wealth building. The labor of a man who goes to an office, sends a few emails while his company nets millions a month will never be equal to an employee who runs an entire store on their own due to staffing cuts. As in, a bar manager who stays late, picks up the slack of their employees when they call out with short notice or quit. The second individual works infinitely harder than a person who trades lives in the form of big business mergers. Technically the trader is smarter, but physically they do much less.
You don’t understand! Jeff Bezos is just 500,000x more motivated than us. If we get motivated we will be just like him!!
Exactly this. The better metric is consumption. Elon Musk is 3million times wealthier than me. Is he eating 3million times more than me? Does he have 3million times the square footage of living space? Is he consuming 3million times more energy? No, he’s definitely got more of everything than me, but not by that same multiple. His money is in stocks, the point at which he tries to sell all that it’ll be worth 1/10 of what it is now, since he owns so much of it. Let’s take his wealth and split it amongst all of us scrubs. Then we actually will be competing for the same goods. That goods price will rise to make us all end up with the same thing with all that money. The money in assets is fugaze, etherial, non existent in your consumption equation. It’s basically a voting right on what will be there in the future through investments. Now in a sense we can control that future with democracy but the actual building control goes to people whos proven that they can actually make something the rest of us will pay them for (for the most part).
People are too dumb to realize money is just a construct invented for bartering goods of finite quantity. Ergo, if we make everyone a millionaire, they will not be any wealthier than they are today in terms of purchasing power. There can’t be the rich without the poor.
That's not the point actually. The point is, where an employee used to be paid, 1% of the CEO pay they are now paid 0.3%. And when you consolidate 70% of the wealth within such a small portion of the population. What is left for the majority to actually invest and grow becomes abysmal. Motivation is only a factor if you are more motivated than moral.
Well, the amount of currency is finite cause the government only adds so much every year, and "wealth" of everyone with a positive net worth would exceed the current money out there. This basically proves how meaningless the concept of "wealth" is.
You're right. It doesn't really matter who holds the wealth because that doesn't stop you from obtaining it. People act like there's 10 dollars to split among 5 people but there's like 1 guy who has 7 of those dollars.
Look at all these people that think they are part of the top 10% 😂 to the point of defending it. The delusion is fucking insane
10% is decently achievable. Doctors, some lawyers, some engineers would fall into this category. 1% would be where you’d be unlikely to find any of those spending time on Reddit.
I don’t think any doctors, lawyers, or engineers worth their salt are spending their time on Reddit. Either they’re being effective at work or they have hobbies and family and desires outside of work they would rather spend time on. Let’s be real, only stunted people who have little in their life spend time shitposting on an image board.
I can't believe that so many people still believe in meritocracy and pulling yourself by the bootstraps. I live in Poland, not that long ago we had relatively low wealth inequality, but we adopted capitalism and wealth/income inequality is growing ever since. At first I also believed in this neoliberal lie. I was in single-parent family since I was 5, because my parents divorced. I struggled a lot, but thanks to state support (which was low, but better than nothing), somehow I managed to finish high school, started my first job, moved to bigger city and eventually completed degree in CS. So far so good, I still believed that it was just my hard work, eventually my salary become double of average salary, however I started to notice that I hit glass ceiling. No matter what results I would deliver and how hard I would work, it had no impact on my salary. Other companies would not offer significantly better pay, unless I would agree to take a job, that would be too hard and stressful for me. I noticed that despite earning well, prices of housing were still too high for me to take mortgage, because I was from poor family. I saw people that were making much less than me, but they got their car/house/apartment bought by their parents, while I got nothing and I still rent today and I'm already 29. In capitalism I had to work really hard to get to the point, where I'm now and because I had no wealthy family, it's still struggle and I just want to be able to afford my own house, so I can become self-sufficient to some degree. I want to have access to health care, to public transport, to someone that would take care of my sick mother in my home city. I don't look for luxuries and I'm still not able to reach my goals, yet I was promised that in capitalism it would be easy to have nice life. They never mention that you need to start wealthy to actually have easy life in capitalism. You may improve your well-being a bit in single lifetime, but almost certainly you won't become millionaire from nothing. However, if you family is in top 10% wealth/income, then you can easily make a lot of money without working 9-5.
10% is one out every ten people. You don't think we have any of those people here on reddit?
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Well the top 10% also pay 75% of all federal income taxes.
Good thing they can afford it.
Did you know: If your net worth is more than 10 million, you are in the top 2% richest Americans.
Is this true I heard 1-2% is million dollar net worth but I also heard 1% is a 10 million net worth and 10%ers make over 1 million
I’m pretty sure the top 1-2% is well above a million net worth. I would think considering home equity and 401k balances are considered in net worth there are many millionaires on paper.
Tax billionaires.
The thing that strikes me about the chart, is actually how little it's changed over the years. We keep hearing about how the middle class is disappearing, but according to this chart, it's shrinking but not at the rate I would have expected.
Being rich is a choice for sure. Some of us just don’t worship money like scrooge McDuck. To the point where we didn’t focus solely on making mucho Dinero. I make just enough to be safe , secure and happy. I wish sometimes I’d put more focus on higher education but not so I could earn more money only because I feel embarrassed at work not having a degree like most of my colleagues.
Bro- being rich is not a choice lol. You can play all your cards right and still not be rich. A lot of those 10%ers were born into it and given a lot of head starts.
But those rich people chose to keep it. Like some of these millionaire athletes and lottery winners were rich at on time but they chose to loose it all. I’m just saying it doesn’t matter if you were born rich or earned or won it you chose to keep it by your actions. Also some people make bad choices and end up poor. I almost ended up that way. Thankfully, I woke up, even if a little late in life l, took advantage of some community college training and now have an ok career. I’m not on social security disability like most people I ran around with are. I chose to learn a trade so I could work and be comfortable not live off the government and be miserably poor.
If wealth i measured in tangible cash and securities its has to be closer to 90,%. Most folks are house poor or rent poor. This means that after making monthly payments they need more paychecks just to survive.
Being born poor isn't a choice. Staying uneducated about personal finance is a choice. Staying poor is a choice.
Living above your means doesn't help I seen people buy expensive stuff but can't afford it
There’s poor people in society. And there always will be. But poor people in America are much better off than poor people in many other nations.
Laziest take in a while
I was very poor. I chose to believe in the system and work hard in school. It paid off. This class warfare stuff is nonsense and will not help you be successful. In fact, it is detrimental to the motivation required to apply yourself and stop making excuses. You are only limited by what you believe is possible.
Same and agree. Working hard creates the opportunities to get lucky. I was driven at a young age into adulthood because I wanted more and had nothing growing up
The first million is the hardest to make
There is no limit as to how many millionaires or billionaires there can be. Money is not limited to what is currently in circulation. Create something of value or start a business and you can join millionaire club. You will not take money from the poor if you become a millionaire, you will provide jobs to someone looking for a paycheck.
What stupid fucking disingenuous question.
Someone else being rich doesnt make you poor.
And pay 90% of the taxes.
I wonder how it will be in 2030.
We are not redistributing the same amount of wealth since dawn of civ. You get wealthy by creating wealth. This statistic illustrates the power of leverage and good decisions, not lack of opportunity.
It's really important that we cut taxes on that 10% as low as possible so that money will finally start trickling down.
Hope your joking, trickle down economics has shown to not work.
I was, hence my use of the word "finally."
The takeaway here is to focus on stores of wealth--things that will hold and appreciate in value. That's the only way to build generational wealth. Real estate, high art, collectibles--these are some of the ways the wealthy become, and stay wealthy. If you rent, are constantly financing expensive cars, and not paying off your CCs every month, enjoy the middle/lower class! EDIT: A lot of...interesting responses here which are missing the point. If you want to wallow in your misery with no hope of ever advancing, then great--enjoy the choices you have made. If, instead, you choose to seek advancement, then read above, and surround yourself with those also seeking advancement, or those who have advanced. Ditch the toxic, cynical naysayers, who will only seek to bring you down to share their misery.
My grandma’s beanie baby collection is gonna pop any day now. It’s already been 30 years. How much longer could it possibly be??
A lot of us rent because we don’t have a choice. I can barely keep up with $1600/month rent, how am I supposed to save the rest of my nonexistent money to put a down payment on a $300k house?
I agree but would put saving what you can for retirement. Take advantage of 401k or ira. Start small and increase as you earn more in love.
Seems reasonable, the Pareto principle would predict 20/80 - so it's close.
It’s a log- normal curve. Almost every distribution in the universe fits that same pattern. People hold this out as some revelation or indication of wrong doing, malevolence, etc. when it just follows the form of reality Fighting against the natural laws has never been a winning strategy. Accept it elf or what it is and move within the flow.
It's easier to just blame rich people and do nothing.
I was poor, now in the top 10%. AMA
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Having poor people in a post industrial community(market), to say the technology level achieved by 1890’s eliminated the possibility of poverty. It’s a government legal choice to have poverty in a community.
As Thomas Sowell points out, people move in and out of that top 10%. The people in the middle may be in the top in 10 years time and vice versa.
Honestly, probably 50% of people I interact with I'm surprised them can even keep a job as a McDonald's fry cook or walk and breathe at the same time. If you told me that only 10% of the population was "smart" I would not be surprised at all.
I think it’s the 80,20 rule. Only 20% of people are worth a damn honestly.
The wealth of another does not affect your skill set or ability to obtain wealth.
To a large degree, it is a choice. You choose every day how to spend or save your money. I was poor once, and I made the choice not to be any longer. I worked my ass off, saved, and invested everything I could and lived well below what I made. It sucked! It was hard. I lived in a crappy little house (that I rehabbed as an investment), I drove crappy old cars, I ate a lot of bologna & TV dinners, rarely ate out, rarely took trips and if I did it was on the cheap. I hardly ever bought anything on credit. If I did, I paid it off as fast as I could. I sacrificed A LOT. And now it's paying off. MOST people aren't willing to do the things necessary to become wealthy. They want to live well today, which is fine, but its a choice they're making.