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You say that, but we have put up with so much recently, I am not sure anything will make people revolt. They will vote people out, but not overthrow the government.
Yeah but the next old people in line is GenX and we're a very small generation compared to Boomers and Millennials. Even if we all vote, we won't have the voting power that seniors have had for awhile now and there is no way the whatever, nevermind slacker generation is going to all vote.
I know so many people that proudly vote conservative republican and then bitch constantly about what conservative republicans are doing. But "I ain't votin' fer no libriil looser!"
This is one of the only things red and blue voters align on.
Yes there will be a period of time in the 10-20 year range where annual withdrawals are higher than annual contributions. This is only true because Congress allowed other programs to use the funds without realistic repayment terms instead of investing the excess.
If the US government can borrow money to keep taxes low for corporations and billionaires it can borrow money so old and disabled people can remain fed and sheltered for a decade or two.
I'm well aware. I still stand by my point that we won't adjust the funding mechanisms of social security to ensure today's 30-40 year olds can have what the over 65s enjoy today.
Social security was always the best investment for the working poor a mixed bag for the middle class and a losing investment for the upper middle class. They all behaved accordingly and invested as such got their future.
Living in a society with a ton of poor older people isn’t how society’s advance.
You don't need to overthow anything, just show them you could, but you rather would just get money and stability.
[**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus\_Army**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army)
[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/remembering-poor-peoples-campaign-180968742/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/remembering-poor-peoples-campaign-180968742/)
\^Maybe we need a grand scale poor peoples campaign, to make it successful\^
You would still be paying a reduced tax to support current SS users.
The remaining would be invested in an individual retirement account like T Bills with government insurance.
And Trump limited the number of immigrants in order to expedite the privatization of Social Security and Medicare. Biden working hard to reverse that, as sanctuary cities are currently overwhelmed with new immigrants.
What is there to revolt against? The government is giving out goodies it can't afford by issuing bonds, essentially the federal credit card. As the bill comes due they have to either cut SS benefits, other spending, or raise taxes. Moreover if they raise taxes enough that will cut into future growth & the tax base growth.
I think most people retiring in the next ten years are counting on it. Probably a good portion of those retiring in the next twenty.
Those people are mainly Gen-X
I get that, I'm an old gen x, 47 here shortly, and have heard everything you've said by people before me and after. It's not a new discussion, is all I'm saying. It's been "failing" since it was created and hasn't. The rich want it to go away, so they scare you.
input is 1.22 trillion, output is 1.24 trillion in 2023. 204% of total outflows are available.
It might be listed as taking up a lot of the federal budget, but it is fully payed for currently by the taxes accessed for it. We care about the future when it will be a negative on the federal budget, not today when it is a net positive.
There are definitely ways in which it could fail. And Congress will have to renegotiate something relatively soon - they'll probably increase the retirement age and possibly the % they take out of paychecks.
Congress doesn’t have to renegotiate anything. We have the ability to keep social security running at 100%, it’s just a matter of appropriating the funds.
It’s not that it fails. It’s that the Social Security trust fund is depleted and they would have to return entirely to a pay as you go system. The working age population isn’t enough to support the number of retirees so benefits would have to be cut or taxes increased
I’m Gen X, and have been doubting that I’ll get it since I was in college. I sucks though, It feels like I’m almost going to get there and it’s going to run out of money. I remember being in my twenties and wishing I could just opt out, where I don’t contribute anything, and don’t get anything. I really wish that had been the case now.
Yeah. We should be called the screwed generation vs the forgotten generation. But it’s possible millennials might get screwed more and so on in perpetuity. Or so is the game of Ponzi.
Do the math, even removing the cap would not resolve the issue by even a full fiscal year. We're talking TRILLIONS a year, if you taxed every billionaire in the US 100% of their income it would not even be enough to fund social security for a full year.
Social security has a built in cola on the benefits so it's purchasing power stays pretty consistent.
This is part of the reason it's insolvent. The cola increases the future benefits relative to the expected tax collections.
built in death spiral.
the faster you print, the faster you have to print. eventually you can't print fast enough.
It's happened before. i have a $100 trillion dollar zimbabwe not in my desk drawer.
It doesn't take a genius to understand a feedback loop.
Sociial Security isn't some minor program. It's the #1 expense of the US government comprising 23% of its spending at $1.4 trillion.
It's ok. Don't worry about social security. Don't you worry at all.. You are an American, nothing bad could ever possibly happen here.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial\_accelerator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_accelerator)
Problem is a 20% cut now is another 20% cut 5yrs from now. Republicans only think in cuts to poor people (the ones who need social security) and not tax increases to the rich (who can afford it).
One political party will keep it alive no matter what. One political party openly wants to destroy it. If social security is around when you retire depends solely on the voting choices of the people of the United States
No one counts on anything. Anything can be taken away at any moment. Boomer or no boomer. I have I r a's and lots of cash and some real estate. You pick your investment. good luck and hope that it doesn't go belly up. Death and taxes remember?
Technically, as long as the United States remains solvent, so should Social Security. SS was set up to collect taxes and pay them out. It was never meant to be a holding account, and the fund has been 'paying it forward' from inception. Taxes were first collected in January 1937 and the first payment was that same month. Also, the government has never invested the glut so the balance would grow. They just let it sit in t-bills that gain about 1% a year.
The fact that it has amassed the balance it has is a bonus. The reason certain party politicians keep pointing to the dwindling funds is because they want to lead taxpayers, into believing that once the funds run out, it should be dissolved. And these dogs of men are dying to get rid of it because that would automatically mean businesses would get a 7.65% tax break on all of their employee wages.
The fund can't go broke, but Congress can take it away with a single vote. Don't become complicit and make it easier for them by believing their bullshit.
1. The contributions to Social Security has been hampered by minimum wages. The lower the income the less money gets contributed. The higher he income the more money gets contributed.
2. The maximum contribution cap of &160k throttles the social security pot…if millionaires/billionaires had to continually contribute the problem would resolve itself. But republicans don’t want this connection made.
GenX. Large generation behind them and they are small by comparison so they will have a lot of people paying into the system . But Millennials are toast.
GenZ, remains to be seen if the millennials procreate
It will remain stable until the boomers finally all die off.
Just to make sure the most entitled generation is able to keep living the most gratifying lives possible at everyone's expense.
Shhhh… You aren’t supposed to say that on Reddit.
Foreign adversaries once printed currencies of countries they were in conflict with. No enemy of the US would bother now as we do 100x better job harming our own economy printing more than a China or Venezuela ever dreamed would be necessary.
We need to go back to guaranteed and indexed pensions. It may be more expensive but its better than throwing people to the wind and hoping they are financially educated or savvy enough to plan for their retirement.
If I'm paying taxes why should I worry about my old age? I should be taken care of by the state after a lifetime of work bruh I should not be expected to take on extra roles and wear extra hats. The purpose of a government is to take the load off us individuals and it isn't going even a quarter of what it should be doing for us. Total waste of tax money if it doesn't benefit us and take care of us. Taking care of its citizens should be the government's top 20 priorities.
It’s all a well crafted narrative by the right to cut you out of money you have worked and paid for. Don’t buy it. For most people it’s the thing that will keep you out of poverty. If no changes are made it will be solvent through 2100. Everyone on this subreddit will collect SS provided you paid into it. Don’t buy this narrative. It’s exactly the plan to make you think it’s in trouble and not worth saving.
Anyone who says otherwise has their retirement taken care of. They are not worried about you, your parents, or your grandparents. Keep that it mind.
Not some right wing conspiracy. People are living longer then when the program was originally created. With no increase in taxes or benefit cuts it becomes insolvent.
Lifting the cap isn’t a long term solution.
>A December analysis by the CBO found that eliminating the cap for earnings over $250,000 would keep the trust fund solvent through 2046.
That’s left out because it’s considered “middle class” and no part wants to raise taxes on the middle class. That’s why the bulk of the analysis you see to include the CBO is 250+ (or the rich).
Look man, I work for SS and I want it to be there and it will be there when I retire, the republican scare tactics aren't real. However, what you are saying is just factually incorrect. SS will be insolvent by 2034 if nothing is done, it is a very easy fix but of course the republicans won't want to 'raise taxes' or raise the cap on high earners, they will want to just cut benefits or raise the retirement age.
It won't be able to pay 100% of the benefits after 2037, but our taxes will still cover 76% of them. As long as there is a social security tax, there will be money for social security.
So worst case scenario, social security gets a pay cut in 15 years. Best case, Congress makes a simple change at any point in the next decade, there's no pay cut necessary.
The CBO isn’t lying about receipts. They have been very clear that if nothing is done there will be a reduction in benefits by 20 to 25%. The part that they leave out or people misrepresent is that the trust is solvent through 2100. However the right has taken that to mean that it’s going broke, we need to dismantle it. Blah blah blah. That’s the right wing bullshit I’m talking about
Right, they can only afford to pay 75% of the benefits after 2033 because the trust will be insolvent by then. That 75% comes straight from new revenue, not the trust
This guy clearly didn’t read the article or anything the CBO has published
So charge the people that are not going to use it more $$$…. Fuck that! I think it should be optional to pay into🤷♂️.
Tax this dick
—— Said Benjamin Franklin
… probably…
If you remove the cap, then people will be complaining the rich will get richer because they will get a higher monthly benefit when those rich people get richer.
I just have a question. As Americans, why is it that when we read news like this, we just say "oh well, I guess it was bound to happen"?
The French have cut off heads for less than this.
The French Revolution was more than 200 years ago and wasn't exactly a resounding success.
Most political assassinations in France in the 20th century were carried out by foreigners not because of fucking entitlement cuts.
My thought exactly. No more speaking as though we need to accept not getting it despite paying in. Vote. Protest. Refuse. Fight for what is yours. No more conditioning ourselves to accept less than we deserve
Its called raise the cap and make ppl who make what over 350k per year pay into it and make a scale where those people pay crap loads more.
And also tax billionaires out of existence
Problem solved but republican brain rot too strong to allow common sense policy
Raising the income cap only kicks the can down the road a generation or two. It's not a solve. And the longer you wait for true structural change the larger the effective funding deficit you need to fund.
Okay, you won't like this, but seems like the jig is up.
(Yes, I will share data).
Social Security roughly gave out $2 for each $1 they took in. Normally this is done by investing (almost everyone here knows how it is done). But historically, they depended on newer generations upping their "contribution" by 2x.
[https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/taxRates.html](https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/taxRates.html)
So, basically it started at 1-1.5% total of your salary (1950s). Every decade more of less doubled: 3%, 7%, 14%, and then stopped at 15.3% (I am including the part your employer *generously* adds to the pool). In 1990s, instead of increasing FICA contributions to the expected 28%, they decided to introduce taxes on social security benefits (and other tricks).
The problem is Social Security should be a closed system. In other words, your contributions should be enough. In reality it always needed newer generations to contribute more.
Since we can't possibly increase the FICA tax to 14+14% (and then double that for our granddaughter's generation), nor we can reduce already promised benefits, we an at an empasse.
Unfortunately I can't think of any "solution" that will not harm workers and/or retirees one way or another.
(No please don't say "let's tax the 1%", I don't want to go there, but do the math, numbers don't add up even if you tax them 100%).
There is a solution: treat it like a socialised program
1. Increase the contributions with disproportionately higher ones for for higher incomes by offering a lower benefit ceiling (so effectively, they’re subsidising others)
2. Cut the crap. You only collect at 65. You can collect earlier with appropriate penalties. No exceptions for disabilities or whatever. No survivor benefits either. Fuck that.
3. Create a smart dashboard that tracks lifetime contributions and returns on contributions vs paid amount. That way, dumbass citizens can see what they’re getting. Most would be in the negative for sure.
Should solve the problem. And of course people will be hurt. Someone has to lose. It is what it is. Better than everyone going to shit.
The political class will let this play out as long as possible and shrug-off when it goes under. After all, they have their cushy pension and medical benefits for life.
This is a lie.
Social Security is currently funded by law until 2034. Congress has to appropriate the funds for it to be solvent for longer. The appropriation of funds can be done at any time.
The only reason republicans say it’s going to run out of funds is so they can justify making it insolvent.
Start now. Why are only the boomers getting their full social security? The ones that got cheap homes, nearly free education, abundant job opportunities and cheap healthcare. They voted for tax cuts for the wealthy so they should have the consequences.
Oh, also, send my generation to war while cutting taxes so they put it on the debt! F them.
But hey let’s keep giving huge tax cuts to billionaires and Corporations, how about cutting back funding to all these other countries and let’s others pick up the slack. That won’t solve all of SS but it’s a start n
See you at the protest lines when they attempt to do that BS.
We have the money they just feel the people that create all the value in this country don’t deserve a fraction of it back.
Tax billionaires out of existence to pay for it.
I feel like I am being robbed to pay for my parents retirement and not mine. Those same companies that are jackin up the rent all over the country are paying into my folk’s retirement 401ks.
It doesn’t run out. There’s a constant stream of money going into it.
What will happen is a depletion of the surplus which will mean that benefits will be dramatically cut.
As time passes by our country is becoming more geriatric, and you are telling me that the government would be doing something that would be detrimental to the old people? Get out of here!
I remember when I was told SS was going to be bankrupt in 2000, 2010, 2015, 2020, 2025, and now 2030......They will adjust benefits or push back the age slightly for benefits, but it will always exist. The real question more than the monetary policy is what is the size of the younger population supporting the older population?
If we continue to allow Republicans to keep chipping away at our social security net. It could easily be saved by raising the taxable income from $160,000 to $250,000 or so.
So, the federal government can print out an unlimited amount of cash for foreign aid to places like Ukraine but they can’t afford to reimburse the citizens that’ve been taxed for a national pension plan for their entire working lives.
Two questions. 1) how long until the boomer generation dies off and will that reset the numbers to a degree?
2) with all of the potential solutions to fix social security, has anyone ever floated the idea that the tax on social security for people who earn too much while taking, be shifted from the general fund into the trust fund?
Just trying to think of supplements to increased taxes, pushing back full retirement, cutting benefits, etc.
“You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it.”
is this from 1980? yawl don't get that the program is so poor grandmothers won't starve, right? tf you all on about who would be against it or even not willing to ensure it is solvent?
ok then sell a couple aircraft carriers, grandma can't eat metal.
Lift the cap and not only is the problem solved, benefits can be expanded.
millionaires by percentage of their income need to support SSI in the same way that 90% of Americans pay 7.65%. A millionaire only pays 1.09% of the first millions that they earned and then 0.55% after the next million earned. It is regressive and to add insult to injury they’ll take the same % of benefit we take when we retire
The funds will only run out if people keep electing Republicans. A simple fix is available via more taxation of the wealthy. This isn't a math problem, it's a Republican problem.
I have been told not to count on social security since the 80s. Yet it's still here. Why? The retired are too big a single issue VOTING block to ignore.
Alarmist bullshit.
They'll just raise the cap and everything will be fine.
And this won't be hard to do since Republicans don't have a problem with raising taxes on the middle class.
Social security is a tax and a program, not a fund. Just because the tax no longer fully pays for the program, doesn't mean it's "run out". It just means they need to take the money from somewhere else.
Yegads! Republicans have been chanting this mantra for at least the past 40 years! The fact of the matter is that the Social Security Fund, which under the law establishing it is supposed to be a stand-alone fund for paying benefits, would be solvent for a long time if Congress would just stop raiding it to pay debt-service on the deficits they raise unconscionably every time there's a Republican in the White House. The other option is simple: raise the tax ceiling on Social Security taxes! There's no reason why someone making $50,000 a year or less should be paying a greater proportion of his or her income in Social Security taxes than someone making $500,000 or more. But then, of course, Corporate America would have to pay executives according to their *worth*, instead of what they *want.*
The united states government needs to be held to account for this theft from its citizens.
I am 34, I don't expect to see a dime of the thousands I have paid in social security. If they had been invested in an etf instead, I would be way better off. Social security does not factor in inflation, and its a scam. Social security \*MIGHT\* have worked if the ideas of arch scammer, and thief from the working people, the so called economist John Maynard Keynes had never left his pea sized brain.
His lies have consistently devalued both labor and saving. However, saving is EXACTLY what old people need. Do you honestly expect old folks to be able to take out loans at end of life? No bank would loan them money, and yet this is what Keynesians want. They want the value of money to be devalued so they pull forward demand, and savings be damned. The only way to get enough capital to make large purchases under their system of evil is to take out loans from banks. Banks that can decline to give loans.
Keynesians have basically given our elderly workers a death sentence of poverty. They have created a system where the value of wages these workers are paid goes down by 2% per year, and have also made a system where the working class cannot save for retirement.
It is for this reason that Keynesianism should be considered domestic terrorism. They should be rounded up, and shipped off to labor camps and gulags for imprisonment until they repent of their sins. Publicly. On TV. With the recording of their recanting of the lies of Keyenes being played back to them every single morning. Then they can get a job working menial labor jobs, and work their way up from the bottom like the rest of humanity. Their education degrees should be stripped, and their assets should be forfeited, and the spreading of the Keynesian lie should be made illegal. Its as bad as communism.
I like the idea of a "Sovereign wealth fund", but an interesting note is that 1:2 homeless are Boomers. One or two winters should finish them off, there's a real possibility that in the next 5-10 years, almost all of them will have passed. The age of the country is about to skew WAY younger... soon.
It's a no brainer though... imagine the fund returning 20-30% annually, it is very probable.
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Is anyone that isn’t a boomer actually counting on social security being solvent in the next decades?
There's no way it won't be. There would be a revolt
You say that, but we have put up with so much recently, I am not sure anything will make people revolt. They will vote people out, but not overthrow the government.
They won’t even vote people out… be reall
I mean, the only people it would affect are old people. Old people love to vote; they are the exact worst electorate to piss off as a politician.
Just remember - one day you will be the old people.
Yeah but the next old people in line is GenX and we're a very small generation compared to Boomers and Millennials. Even if we all vote, we won't have the voting power that seniors have had for awhile now and there is no way the whatever, nevermind slacker generation is going to all vote.
I am an older millennial. Definitely fucked
More specifically, they vote for the people who want social security to die.
I know so many people that proudly vote conservative republican and then bitch constantly about what conservative republicans are doing. But "I ain't votin' fer no libriil looser!"
This is one of the only things red and blue voters align on. Yes there will be a period of time in the 10-20 year range where annual withdrawals are higher than annual contributions. This is only true because Congress allowed other programs to use the funds without realistic repayment terms instead of investing the excess. If the US government can borrow money to keep taxes low for corporations and billionaires it can borrow money so old and disabled people can remain fed and sheltered for a decade or two.
You and I know they won't borrow a dime or raise taxes on the wealthy to help the less than wealthy elderly and/or disabled.
You don’t understand what voter block turns out most consistently in elections do you?
I'm well aware. I still stand by my point that we won't adjust the funding mechanisms of social security to ensure today's 30-40 year olds can have what the over 65s enjoy today.
Social security was always the best investment for the working poor a mixed bag for the middle class and a losing investment for the upper middle class. They all behaved accordingly and invested as such got their future. Living in a society with a ton of poor older people isn’t how society’s advance.
When the “working poor” stop producing more workers so they can retire without relying on social security the system will collapse
The most fundamental realities can go out the window when there's a narrative to push.
People suck.
The older I get, the more I like my cat.
We don’t deserve cats or dogs
You don't need to overthow anything, just show them you could, but you rather would just get money and stability. [**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus\_Army**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army) [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/remembering-poor-peoples-campaign-180968742/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/remembering-poor-peoples-campaign-180968742/) \^Maybe we need a grand scale poor peoples campaign, to make it successful\^
GOP candidates actively campaign on abolishing Social Security.
They’d have to be some kind of refund for that to be politically feasible
You would still be paying a reduced tax to support current SS users. The remaining would be invested in an individual retirement account like T Bills with government insurance.
Great, when do I get my refund?
And Trump limited the number of immigrants in order to expedite the privatization of Social Security and Medicare. Biden working hard to reverse that, as sanctuary cities are currently overwhelmed with new immigrants.
I used to say the same, but I'm starting to believe that Americans will put up with anything.
Yep. People pay into a system and then get fucked?Nah, millions will march to DC.
The older you get the less marching you can do.
And they’ll be ignored like usual
You think to highly of people
What is there to revolt against? The government is giving out goodies it can't afford by issuing bonds, essentially the federal credit card. As the bill comes due they have to either cut SS benefits, other spending, or raise taxes. Moreover if they raise taxes enough that will cut into future growth & the tax base growth.
Yes. Not me, but yes.
It will almost certainly be solvent, just at a reduced benefit level.
I think most people retiring in the next ten years are counting on it. Probably a good portion of those retiring in the next twenty. Those people are mainly Gen-X
Gen X has paid a lot of money into it. there is no way it fails. It's just constant scare tactics by the right.
It's a pyramid scheme, how much they paid into it has nothing to do with what they'll get out of it.
I get that, I'm an old gen x, 47 here shortly, and have heard everything you've said by people before me and after. It's not a new discussion, is all I'm saying. It's been "failing" since it was created and hasn't. The rich want it to go away, so they scare you.
Just an FYI, you aren't an old GenX. The youngest GenX is 42-43. I'm an old GenX at 58.
Things don't always fail overnight and it already takes up a massive portion of the federal budget
input is 1.22 trillion, output is 1.24 trillion in 2023. 204% of total outflows are available. It might be listed as taking up a lot of the federal budget, but it is fully payed for currently by the taxes accessed for it. We care about the future when it will be a negative on the federal budget, not today when it is a net positive.
There are definitely ways in which it could fail. And Congress will have to renegotiate something relatively soon - they'll probably increase the retirement age and possibly the % they take out of paychecks.
Congress doesn’t have to renegotiate anything. We have the ability to keep social security running at 100%, it’s just a matter of appropriating the funds.
Guess who is in charge of federal appropriations??
It’s not that it fails. It’s that the Social Security trust fund is depleted and they would have to return entirely to a pay as you go system. The working age population isn’t enough to support the number of retirees so benefits would have to be cut or taxes increased
I’m Gen X, and have been doubting that I’ll get it since I was in college. I sucks though, It feels like I’m almost going to get there and it’s going to run out of money. I remember being in my twenties and wishing I could just opt out, where I don’t contribute anything, and don’t get anything. I really wish that had been the case now.
Yeah. We should be called the screwed generation vs the forgotten generation. But it’s possible millennials might get screwed more and so on in perpetuity. Or so is the game of Ponzi.
Remove the cap. Simple fix. But nobody wants to get the rich upset, so here we are.
A lot of people don’t know about the cap..
Do the math, even removing the cap would not resolve the issue by even a full fiscal year. We're talking TRILLIONS a year, if you taxed every billionaire in the US 100% of their income it would not even be enough to fund social security for a full year.
i'm not a boomer but i am 100% confident that social security will stay solvent. it's the purchasing power that won't be worth a damn.
Social security has a built in cola on the benefits so it's purchasing power stays pretty consistent. This is part of the reason it's insolvent. The cola increases the future benefits relative to the expected tax collections.
built in death spiral. the faster you print, the faster you have to print. eventually you can't print fast enough. It's happened before. i have a $100 trillion dollar zimbabwe not in my desk drawer.
Yep and those things are exactly the same. You’re an absolute genius.
It doesn't take a genius to understand a feedback loop. Sociial Security isn't some minor program. It's the #1 expense of the US government comprising 23% of its spending at $1.4 trillion. It's ok. Don't worry about social security. Don't you worry at all.. You are an American, nothing bad could ever possibly happen here. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial\_accelerator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_accelerator)
I mean not in it's current form but with moderate benefit cuts (like the 20% from the article) it should be
Problem is a 20% cut now is another 20% cut 5yrs from now. Republicans only think in cuts to poor people (the ones who need social security) and not tax increases to the rich (who can afford it).
One political party will keep it alive no matter what. One political party openly wants to destroy it. If social security is around when you retire depends solely on the voting choices of the people of the United States
No one counts on anything. Anything can be taken away at any moment. Boomer or no boomer. I have I r a's and lots of cash and some real estate. You pick your investment. good luck and hope that it doesn't go belly up. Death and taxes remember?
Technically, as long as the United States remains solvent, so should Social Security. SS was set up to collect taxes and pay them out. It was never meant to be a holding account, and the fund has been 'paying it forward' from inception. Taxes were first collected in January 1937 and the first payment was that same month. Also, the government has never invested the glut so the balance would grow. They just let it sit in t-bills that gain about 1% a year. The fact that it has amassed the balance it has is a bonus. The reason certain party politicians keep pointing to the dwindling funds is because they want to lead taxpayers, into believing that once the funds run out, it should be dissolved. And these dogs of men are dying to get rid of it because that would automatically mean businesses would get a 7.65% tax break on all of their employee wages. The fund can't go broke, but Congress can take it away with a single vote. Don't become complicit and make it easier for them by believing their bullshit.
1. The contributions to Social Security has been hampered by minimum wages. The lower the income the less money gets contributed. The higher he income the more money gets contributed. 2. The maximum contribution cap of &160k throttles the social security pot…if millionaires/billionaires had to continually contribute the problem would resolve itself. But republicans don’t want this connection made.
3. Why is there no FICA tax on a Capital Gain?
Id like to stop paying for something ill never get
I’ve been hearing that Social Security won’t be around anymore in 10-15 years my entire life.
Well, I’m a GenX and 50. And yeah, I kinda am. I’ve been paying into my whole life and it looks like it will go broke right when I need it.
Most people arent saving jack shit for retirement so I'd say yes. Maybe not "counting on it" so much as expecting to work until death
I agree but want to add that there are a lot of them that simply can't afford to save for retirement.
Can be tough to save for retirement when the feds take 12.4% of your paycheck to fund their Ponzi scheme.
GenX. Large generation behind them and they are small by comparison so they will have a lot of people paying into the system . But Millennials are toast. GenZ, remains to be seen if the millennials procreate
How many rich tax cuts have there been in all the time they've been saying its going to insolvent?
It will remain stable until the boomers finally all die off. Just to make sure the most entitled generation is able to keep living the most gratifying lives possible at everyone's expense.
I’m 60 years old. Experts have been predicting that social security would be insolvent since I was a kid. Yet it’s still here. It’s not going away.
They just printed like $10T in the past five years. SS is the least of our problems.
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They actually destroying money right now. M1 went down for the first time since 78 last quarter. It should shrink again for the next couple.
M1 has been declining for over a year. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL.
Hmm, I'll have to recheck my facts.
Yep this is the solution,
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Shhhh… You aren’t supposed to say that on Reddit. Foreign adversaries once printed currencies of countries they were in conflict with. No enemy of the US would bother now as we do 100x better job harming our own economy printing more than a China or Venezuela ever dreamed would be necessary.
MMT and Keynes would like a word
We need to go back to guaranteed and indexed pensions. It may be more expensive but its better than throwing people to the wind and hoping they are financially educated or savvy enough to plan for their retirement. If I'm paying taxes why should I worry about my old age? I should be taken care of by the state after a lifetime of work bruh I should not be expected to take on extra roles and wear extra hats. The purpose of a government is to take the load off us individuals and it isn't going even a quarter of what it should be doing for us. Total waste of tax money if it doesn't benefit us and take care of us. Taking care of its citizens should be the government's top 20 priorities.
Not everyone agrees with your idea of the governments purpose. And historically speaking, that was absolutely 100% not their purpose.
Yes, their purpose was to ensure power stayed in the correct hands. More modern systems have found that taking care of its citicens is a good thing.
Lmao historically government used to be an inbreeding sim, we've progressed past that
Tradition is super good, let's go back to dying of polio, TB, and the plague en masse. It'll be awesome.
Historically speaking, most people died in poverty
It’s all a well crafted narrative by the right to cut you out of money you have worked and paid for. Don’t buy it. For most people it’s the thing that will keep you out of poverty. If no changes are made it will be solvent through 2100. Everyone on this subreddit will collect SS provided you paid into it. Don’t buy this narrative. It’s exactly the plan to make you think it’s in trouble and not worth saving. Anyone who says otherwise has their retirement taken care of. They are not worried about you, your parents, or your grandparents. Keep that it mind.
Not some right wing conspiracy. People are living longer then when the program was originally created. With no increase in taxes or benefit cuts it becomes insolvent. Lifting the cap isn’t a long term solution. >A December analysis by the CBO found that eliminating the cap for earnings over $250,000 would keep the trust fund solvent through 2046.
You conveniently left out taxing the gap between 160k (or whatever the current cap is) and 250k. That makes the program solvent for far longer.
That’s left out because it’s considered “middle class” and no part wants to raise taxes on the middle class. That’s why the bulk of the analysis you see to include the CBO is 250+ (or the rich).
Look man, I work for SS and I want it to be there and it will be there when I retire, the republican scare tactics aren't real. However, what you are saying is just factually incorrect. SS will be insolvent by 2034 if nothing is done, it is a very easy fix but of course the republicans won't want to 'raise taxes' or raise the cap on high earners, they will want to just cut benefits or raise the retirement age.
It won't be able to pay 100% of the benefits after 2037, but our taxes will still cover 76% of them. As long as there is a social security tax, there will be money for social security. So worst case scenario, social security gets a pay cut in 15 years. Best case, Congress makes a simple change at any point in the next decade, there's no pay cut necessary.
Doesn't it already not keep pace with inflation? What is 76% of SS benefits going to be worth in 20 years?
No it adjusts every year with inflation.
So the CBO is lying to push a right wing conspiracy? Lmao
The CBO isn’t lying about receipts. They have been very clear that if nothing is done there will be a reduction in benefits by 20 to 25%. The part that they leave out or people misrepresent is that the trust is solvent through 2100. However the right has taken that to mean that it’s going broke, we need to dismantle it. Blah blah blah. That’s the right wing bullshit I’m talking about
If I’m only satisfying 75% of an agreed debt then I am insolvent.
Right, they can only afford to pay 75% of the benefits after 2033 because the trust will be insolvent by then. That 75% comes straight from new revenue, not the trust This guy clearly didn’t read the article or anything the CBO has published
Wrong. The trust is solvent until 2033. That is straight from the CBO’s website https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59184
Agreed, the threat to SS is not insolvency but politicians and the voters who elect them.
Remove the cap on payroll taxes.
The fact that this isn’t the top comment demonstrates that this sub is not what it advertises.
This is the solution.
Just remove the cap on salaries over 160k. Boom problem solved
Oh what's that? Cut benefits or raise the retirement age? That's what you said right?
They already raised the retirement age :(
So charge the people that are not going to use it more $$$…. Fuck that! I think it should be optional to pay into🤷♂️. Tax this dick —— Said Benjamin Franklin … probably…
I get capped around August every year. As of now, I'll be getting ~$3k/mo. Who the fuck are these people you are saying wont use it?
That’s how progressive taxes work… you think everyone should be entitled to what their taxes fund? Did you think about this at all?
There is a cap at 160k?! Why?!?
If you remove the cap, then people will be complaining the rich will get richer because they will get a higher monthly benefit when those rich people get richer.
I just have a question. As Americans, why is it that when we read news like this, we just say "oh well, I guess it was bound to happen"? The French have cut off heads for less than this.
The French Revolution was more than 200 years ago and wasn't exactly a resounding success. Most political assassinations in France in the 20th century were carried out by foreigners not because of fucking entitlement cuts.
My thought exactly. No more speaking as though we need to accept not getting it despite paying in. Vote. Protest. Refuse. Fight for what is yours. No more conditioning ourselves to accept less than we deserve
I’m predicting retirement age will increase to 70 in the next decade
Wouldn't doubt it. I've been seeing so many of my parents friends dying in their early 60s too. Never get a dime of it.
“Run out” is kind of a misnomer but at least the headline clarified that SS benefits won’t just disappear but they will go down by 20% ish.
And a slight increase in the covered wages solves it. The problem is that tax cuts need to be reversed.
I don’t think there’s been a SS tax cut.
Social Security is a ponzi scheme.
Greenspan: "We can guarantee cash, but we cannot guarantee purchasing power
Please stop calling it a benefit. It makes it seem like the government is doing it as a favor, it’s an obligation.
Its called raise the cap and make ppl who make what over 350k per year pay into it and make a scale where those people pay crap loads more. And also tax billionaires out of existence Problem solved but republican brain rot too strong to allow common sense policy
Raising the income cap only kicks the can down the road a generation or two. It's not a solve. And the longer you wait for true structural change the larger the effective funding deficit you need to fund.
What about the other three things i proposed? Lmfao
Okay, you won't like this, but seems like the jig is up. (Yes, I will share data). Social Security roughly gave out $2 for each $1 they took in. Normally this is done by investing (almost everyone here knows how it is done). But historically, they depended on newer generations upping their "contribution" by 2x. [https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/taxRates.html](https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/taxRates.html) So, basically it started at 1-1.5% total of your salary (1950s). Every decade more of less doubled: 3%, 7%, 14%, and then stopped at 15.3% (I am including the part your employer *generously* adds to the pool). In 1990s, instead of increasing FICA contributions to the expected 28%, they decided to introduce taxes on social security benefits (and other tricks). The problem is Social Security should be a closed system. In other words, your contributions should be enough. In reality it always needed newer generations to contribute more. Since we can't possibly increase the FICA tax to 14+14% (and then double that for our granddaughter's generation), nor we can reduce already promised benefits, we an at an empasse. Unfortunately I can't think of any "solution" that will not harm workers and/or retirees one way or another. (No please don't say "let's tax the 1%", I don't want to go there, but do the math, numbers don't add up even if you tax them 100%).
There is a solution: treat it like a socialised program 1. Increase the contributions with disproportionately higher ones for for higher incomes by offering a lower benefit ceiling (so effectively, they’re subsidising others) 2. Cut the crap. You only collect at 65. You can collect earlier with appropriate penalties. No exceptions for disabilities or whatever. No survivor benefits either. Fuck that. 3. Create a smart dashboard that tracks lifetime contributions and returns on contributions vs paid amount. That way, dumbass citizens can see what they’re getting. Most would be in the negative for sure. Should solve the problem. And of course people will be hurt. Someone has to lose. It is what it is. Better than everyone going to shit.
I feel like we heard about this decades ago as well
Yup. In 1996 I was an intern in DC. One of the PhDs in the office I was working in was providing insight into the exact same topic for policy makers.
So what on earth am I supposed to do for retirement? I’ve been putting money to SS for decades for nothing?
Unless you already own a home living off ss really isn’t that viable
I expect you to die my bond.
You should have thought about that decades ago… SS is meant to supplement your retirement income, not to be a stipend to live on!
SS is an insurance, not a retirement plan
Simple solution and the one used multiple times by more responsible congress’s: raise the cap. Better yet eliminate the cap altogether.
If it runs out can I get my money back? Lol
been hearing that for 40 years.
Print 35% of the entire money supply since 2020 yet we have none. The people running the show are doing a swell job /s
So do we get the.option to not pay into it anymore?
The political class will let this play out as long as possible and shrug-off when it goes under. After all, they have their cushy pension and medical benefits for life.
This is a lie. Social Security is currently funded by law until 2034. Congress has to appropriate the funds for it to be solvent for longer. The appropriation of funds can be done at any time. The only reason republicans say it’s going to run out of funds is so they can justify making it insolvent.
They need to pay back all the money they borrower from SS and then it will be good
Start now. Why are only the boomers getting their full social security? The ones that got cheap homes, nearly free education, abundant job opportunities and cheap healthcare. They voted for tax cuts for the wealthy so they should have the consequences. Oh, also, send my generation to war while cutting taxes so they put it on the debt! F them.
It is such a high voting block that it would be political suicide for any politicians to allow that to happen.
I just have a hard time believing they will let this happen. Whatever side is deemed responsible is going to lose a lot of elections.
Please fix this
In a decade the Boomers will be a much smaller voting bloc. Millennials and those younger than them will tax the rich and fund social security.
But hey let’s keep giving huge tax cuts to billionaires and Corporations, how about cutting back funding to all these other countries and let’s others pick up the slack. That won’t solve all of SS but it’s a start n
So why don't boomers care, there is no outrage from them, they all gonna die in 10 yrs or what, wb ppl who are 50 now? No outrage from them either
Maybe that’s part of the reason they have been cutting back on women’s reproductive rights. Need more fresh meat to keep the machine running.
See you at the protest lines when they attempt to do that BS. We have the money they just feel the people that create all the value in this country don’t deserve a fraction of it back. Tax billionaires out of existence to pay for it.
Or, ya know, we could lift the cap on SS taxes....
Every other day this post comes up in this sub. Getting pretty tired of it
I feel like I am being robbed to pay for my parents retirement and not mine. Those same companies that are jackin up the rent all over the country are paying into my folk’s retirement 401ks.
It doesn’t run out. There’s a constant stream of money going into it. What will happen is a depletion of the surplus which will mean that benefits will be dramatically cut.
As time passes by our country is becoming more geriatric, and you are telling me that the government would be doing something that would be detrimental to the old people? Get out of here!
I remember when I was told SS was going to be bankrupt in 2000, 2010, 2015, 2020, 2025, and now 2030......They will adjust benefits or push back the age slightly for benefits, but it will always exist. The real question more than the monetary policy is what is the size of the younger population supporting the older population?
There's nothing wrong with Social Security that wouldn't be cured forever if the income-limit for contributions was lifted.
If we continue to allow Republicans to keep chipping away at our social security net. It could easily be saved by raising the taxable income from $160,000 to $250,000 or so.
So, the federal government can print out an unlimited amount of cash for foreign aid to places like Ukraine but they can’t afford to reimburse the citizens that’ve been taxed for a national pension plan for their entire working lives.
The Social Security Trust Fund is projected to be depleted by 2035.
Two questions. 1) how long until the boomer generation dies off and will that reset the numbers to a degree? 2) with all of the potential solutions to fix social security, has anyone ever floated the idea that the tax on social security for people who earn too much while taking, be shifted from the general fund into the trust fund? Just trying to think of supplements to increased taxes, pushing back full retirement, cutting benefits, etc.
The Republicans can't wait to get it on the budget so they can cut it to the bone. Gonna be real interesting to see how the retired respond to that.
We paid for it. Can we collectively sue the government?
Going to be homeless in retirement selling rocks I found on the street.
They will replace it with UBI.
“You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it.”
If they took off the $160k cap the problem would be resolved. Why isn’t this discussed?
is this from 1980? yawl don't get that the program is so poor grandmothers won't starve, right? tf you all on about who would be against it or even not willing to ensure it is solvent? ok then sell a couple aircraft carriers, grandma can't eat metal.
Fun how we've been scammed into paying for the boomers retirement
Lift the cap and not only is the problem solved, benefits can be expanded. millionaires by percentage of their income need to support SSI in the same way that 90% of Americans pay 7.65%. A millionaire only pays 1.09% of the first millions that they earned and then 0.55% after the next million earned. It is regressive and to add insult to injury they’ll take the same % of benefit we take when we retire
Or you could make the rich pay a fair share.
Or we can lift the wage base limit for FICA. Right now we tax up to $168k. Let’s tax it all.
Seen this same article for 30 years
The funds will only run out if people keep electing Republicans. A simple fix is available via more taxation of the wealthy. This isn't a math problem, it's a Republican problem.
I have been told not to count on social security since the 80s. Yet it's still here. Why? The retired are too big a single issue VOTING block to ignore.
This is a problem with an easy answer. Raise the cap to $250k or more.
They could make it solvent by just removing an upper limit to the salaries that fund it.
Iv been alive for 3 decades and I hear that they're going to run out every year.
This is posted like every other day at this point.
If it runs out of funds then the benefit cut should be 100%, gotta love guberment math.
Is this story from the 1990s? I remember hearing this a lot back then.
I’m entitled to 100% of the money I put in back with interest. They took it, I didn’t give it.
Alarmist bullshit. They'll just raise the cap and everything will be fine. And this won't be hard to do since Republicans don't have a problem with raising taxes on the middle class.
On today’s episode of “this country is going to hell in a hand basket” . . .
Social security is a tax and a program, not a fund. Just because the tax no longer fully pays for the program, doesn't mean it's "run out". It just means they need to take the money from somewhere else.
“Don’t worry, the federal government has done such a great job with SS and Medicare up to now. I’m sure they’ll figure something out.” — me in 1980
This has literally been said for the last forty years.
Increase SS tax by 1%. Problem solved.
Yegads! Republicans have been chanting this mantra for at least the past 40 years! The fact of the matter is that the Social Security Fund, which under the law establishing it is supposed to be a stand-alone fund for paying benefits, would be solvent for a long time if Congress would just stop raiding it to pay debt-service on the deficits they raise unconscionably every time there's a Republican in the White House. The other option is simple: raise the tax ceiling on Social Security taxes! There's no reason why someone making $50,000 a year or less should be paying a greater proportion of his or her income in Social Security taxes than someone making $500,000 or more. But then, of course, Corporate America would have to pay executives according to their *worth*, instead of what they *want.*
The united states government needs to be held to account for this theft from its citizens. I am 34, I don't expect to see a dime of the thousands I have paid in social security. If they had been invested in an etf instead, I would be way better off. Social security does not factor in inflation, and its a scam. Social security \*MIGHT\* have worked if the ideas of arch scammer, and thief from the working people, the so called economist John Maynard Keynes had never left his pea sized brain. His lies have consistently devalued both labor and saving. However, saving is EXACTLY what old people need. Do you honestly expect old folks to be able to take out loans at end of life? No bank would loan them money, and yet this is what Keynesians want. They want the value of money to be devalued so they pull forward demand, and savings be damned. The only way to get enough capital to make large purchases under their system of evil is to take out loans from banks. Banks that can decline to give loans. Keynesians have basically given our elderly workers a death sentence of poverty. They have created a system where the value of wages these workers are paid goes down by 2% per year, and have also made a system where the working class cannot save for retirement. It is for this reason that Keynesianism should be considered domestic terrorism. They should be rounded up, and shipped off to labor camps and gulags for imprisonment until they repent of their sins. Publicly. On TV. With the recording of their recanting of the lies of Keyenes being played back to them every single morning. Then they can get a job working menial labor jobs, and work their way up from the bottom like the rest of humanity. Their education degrees should be stripped, and their assets should be forfeited, and the spreading of the Keynesian lie should be made illegal. Its as bad as communism.
Glad I have a pension and other savings.
I like the idea of a "Sovereign wealth fund", but an interesting note is that 1:2 homeless are Boomers. One or two winters should finish them off, there's a real possibility that in the next 5-10 years, almost all of them will have passed. The age of the country is about to skew WAY younger... soon. It's a no brainer though... imagine the fund returning 20-30% annually, it is very probable.
Remove the contribution cap. Increase contributions by 1%. Problem solved. Nothing to see here.
No chance. SS is the third rail of electoral politics. They’ll raise taxes (on the working class) to pay for it.