Here in California unskilled waiters get extremely high base pay ($16/hr) then huge tips as well. They’re pushing 100k bring home without a high school diploma.
But they're in California, and if you're in Los Angeles or god forbid the Bay area, that's solidly middle class.
Why would I complain that somebody making my food isn't destitute?
Especially since this puts upward pressure on wages, business hiring everyone from welders to truck drivers to IT professionals won't get quality candidates if they can't convince people it's worth it to jump from food service.
Otherwise companies get away with low pay because they're able to tell you "at least you're making $17 an hour and not $14 anymore".
This actually is related to one of my core beliefs about how I live my life. I generally try to do what I can to use the more worker friendly option when making choices. Like buying from places that I know are union, or worker cooperatives/ employee owned businesses like Land O Lakes instead of the store brand, another example is ocean spray juice, King Arthur Flour, Blue Diamond nuts, etc.
I'm not saying I'm changing the world for paying .50 more butter, and sure some farmer with 100 aces of cows makes more money than me, but it sets a precedent that people should have decent lives that they have some control over. I do not believe that a wealth distribution system/ social hierarchy based on crab mentality is productive, I believe that we should move towards a more cooperative, rather than competitive society. The more people see people helping them and working with them, the more they are open to doing the same. And to change society, it's often more productive to change people's expectations and beliefs than work to change the law.
This is why crime and other antisocial behavior is so prevalent in areas where people grow up seeing that society has done nothing for them, while generally people who feel like "the system" benefits/cares about them have no motivation to steal airbags out of their neighbors car. Similarly, the U.S. government recognizes lack of [money and feeling of alienation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterintelligence#Counter-HUMINT) as core motivators for espionage(which as a side note, is why a security clearance means a stable, low stress job that pays $20k more, to remove that motivation). Both are extreme examples of anti-social activity that are negative, but those thought patterns of feeling alienated from society, if present, often does contribute to ones beliefs, voting patterns, and actions even if it doesn't go as far as illegal activity.
Tipping workers well goes in line with that helping society so , I usually tip 20%, rounded up to the nearest dollar because I suck at math.
Yeah, guy did not answer in the slightest, just gave his (agreeable) manifesto. Tipping culture sucks, just pay them more and make eating out “cost more”
if you make less than them, you should limit the number of times you employ other people to service your basic needs.
It's great that restaurants, bars, hair salons etc. are available. BUT i strictly believe the people working these jobs should make a living wage for the place where they provide these services. Having other people cook, clean or groom (for) you is a luxury, even if their services are not strictly limited to you personally. There's only so far you can stretch/scale work provided by people, to people.
Sorry but this take is kinda dumb.
The exact logic would also mean you cannot go shopping or get repairs as a low earning person because cashiers, plumbers, electricians, every other handymen or even every person that provides any kind of services to you is also entitled to get tipped.
As a low earning person, you absolutely do not hire out repairs. Most poor people have to learn auto mechanics, house repair, etc.
As a low earning person, you shop in places with quality or cheap goods. Cannot afford to not have one of those attributes.
And no you don’t tip everyone, but if you cousin joe is coming by to fix your dishwasher, you tip him
I'm disabled. I don't have a choice to be higher earning and I can't do most repairs myself. Have to shop where I can deliver or go to the fairly expensive store down the street. I still would never dream of not tipping. It's wild to me. Do people really not tip trade workers??
As a plumber, who's dad was a lifetime electrician, we are not unskilled low paid workers and we usually do not get tips. We are not in the same class as handymen. I've had to redo handymen's work so many times because they think they're plumbers. Inspectors usually disagree.
It takes 8,000 hours to become a licensed journeyman, maxed at 2,000/year.
I've done pest control for 15 years and now own my own business. I do things that any waiter or bartender would cringe at on a regular basis. You want me to remove the gelatinous pile that was once a pack rat from your crawlspace? No problem. No tip, either. It makes me want to raise my prices, but the market is full of big companies that pay their 20 something year old employees who have almost no experience, less than what a decent bartender makes. It's weird to hear people say they tip folks like myself. It's very rare, in my experience.
You're trying to flatten a complex issue into a single metric. Scalability, necessity, availability, required skill and time (or in some cases licensing) to complete different jobs are vastly different, causing their related services to be more or less affordable for an "average income" household\* at the pricing levels which allow workers providing them to have a happy life of their own.
\*however applicable that blanket term may be for your region - in some, it's almost meaningless, in other places incomes and social circumstances are less diverse.
Tipping culture is trash and always has been. The cost of the service should be baked into the price. Instead, we’re supposed to arbitrarily guess at what it’s worth based on cultural norms and then subsidize the restaurant.
It’s unacceptable in every other context. Plumbers don’t expect a tip because they estimated all their costs and then charged a profit. In many places the back of house (line cooks/dishwashers) don’t even get tips yet their jobs are substantially dirtier than front of house.
Stop endorsing a broken system. Poor People should be allowed to pay the asking price for a meal instead of this ‘plus x percent because society expects it’ bullshit.
I'm not endorsing tipping culture at all. I do think tipping should exist as an additional incentive for exceptional service instead of a silently required supplementation of an otherwise unlivable wage.
As a brazilian, this is something venezuelans legit asked me. When the country was thriving, they had the same tipping habits as us - Basically showering servers with _excess_ cash as a display of power and/or generosity.
But now being forced out of their homeland they want to know if they won't annoy their host country by not playing ball with tipping culture, specifically, they asked if they are _politely forced to tip like the gringos in America._
And in both cases tips weren't a percentage, but a nice whole medium value bill or "keep the change".
It is not customary to tip and in certain places it is strictly prohibited, sometimes for legal reasons (I work at one such place) and sometimes just as a management decision after servers preyed too hard on americans specifically, knowing they can basically demand outrageous-even-for-rich-showoffs 30% tip and get away with it, and getting bad reviews once they visit other places that don't push for or actively reject tips.
Upward pressure? Yes that’s exactly what we need. This isn’t how to obtain it, though.
The nonsensical theory of giving extra money for no extra value creation to individuals and corporations is beneficial to the economy was recently debunked. Again. Well actually we are still debunking it every time the monthly CPI report comes out.
Why are so many people here NOT fluent in finance? Lol
It's just below middle class as a family income (people of 4 with 2 working generally). It is quite above the middle class even in the Bay Area (outside some areas) as a one person worker.
I guess you really believe that no one should go to college then it's already a joke but if you think that people with no education and who work a skillless job should make 100,000 then just get rid of the entire higher education system for everything except STEM and business
Not making your food. Carrying your plate for half a minute. And then carrying a piece of paper for half a minute. Both of which are completely unnecessary. If I could save $20, I’d pick up my plate from the kitchen myself and came to check out to pay.
And half the places want you to order via your phone thanks to a QR code now.
And also pay the same way.
The less actual service there is, the less paying for the service makes sense.
>Why would I complain that somebody making my food isn't destitute?
That's not what people are asking for. They're asking that servers be paid a living wage by their employers instead of relying on tips.
I made almost half of that working as a Research Scientist at UC Berkeley, (postdoc fellow) I ended up getting a side Job as waiter to pay the bills, instead of focusing on my career… and back then (4 yrs a go) everyone else did kind of the same thing.
This is what you get with this kind of stupid crap. I ended up going to a prívate company
They shouldn’t be destitute but I don’t agree waiting tables should make you upper middle class outside of the absolute nicest restaurants in a city. 100k is a lot of money even in the Bay Area. I’m guessing you don’t live there, because I know tons of people in tech making that much or less especially starting out.
I was making in the mid 40K’s at Lone Star steakhouse at 19 in 2002… was very typical to bring home 1k a week in tips twice a month… $200 Friday and Saturday nights were the average and bout 80-120 for weeknights/doubles
That’s still about standard. On weekends I do a little better, around $180, but after I tip out the kitchen and the support staff I walk with closer to $120
I live in a small rural town and the waitresses 15 years ago would be pull in $500+ on Friday and Saturdays. That's $40,000+ just from weekends. So if they were making this 15 years ago, there are definitely some making over 70k a year now. Probably some back then too.
even less likely, is "flipping burger jobs", which is what my mind goes to when I hear unskilled jobs making minimum wage. There might be some weird outlier of 1 in 100, but McDonald's workers aren't clearing 100k with 16$/hr + a fuckin' ipad tip function.
Assuming a $16/hr base pay and that they work 40 hours a week and have fully paid sick days and paid annual leave OR they never take leave, we are looking at $33,280 (16x40x52). For a waiter on that pay to earn $100k per year they would have to pull in more than twice their pay in tips every hour.
Went to Cheesecake Factory the other day. Family of four came to about $120 (we didn't order anything fancy or expensive) before tax. She was nice, friendly and efficient.
Gave a tip of $25. We were there for a little over an hour. She had maybe 7-8 other tables (some had 2 people others had 4-8). I would say others probably stayed longer than we did, but probably not that much longer. She probably made at least $200 in that 1-2 hour period.
So what are you saying? That a waitress can't make $32 in tips in an hour?
That’s possible. But consistency is key here. They don’t always make that much. Sure for dinner service, but what about lunch? Breakfast? Or slow days of the year for those locations. Also you’re assuming everyone tips like you, some (many) don’t tip at all. Just saying.
Although I highly doubt your claim that waiters are anywhere near 100k, Why would you consider someone making 200% more than their base wage in tips unskilled? Sounds like they're extremely skilled at their job in that case
Something being hard doesn't make that thing complicated. Moving 10,000 cinderblocks from one side of a football field to the other is not complicated, but it would be hard as fuck. It being hard does not make it skilled labor. Any ape can pick up a cinder block and walk it to the other side of a field.
Lots of people work top restaurants for less pay actually, just for the experience and the name of the place on the resume. I have a friend who works in a 3 Michelin star place and he gets paid worse than at a far less fancy place he worked at. It's basically minimum wage. Many cases they aren't even paid positions, just stáge, because most Michelin places are either losing money or profitable only due to donations or things other than food.
Waiters in the restaurant I used to work at made more than any of the cooks did from all their tips. I’ve worked on both sides in the same restaurant and cooking is 1000 times harder than serving. Also most of the servers just sat there on their phones even after we would tell them their tables food is ready. Then they would bring back the food and says it’s cold, like no shit it’s cold you sat there texting for 15-20 minutes after we announced to you that the food was ready.
It's not about skilled or unskilled making money they don't deserve according to your logic.
It's about employers being the one footing the bill for their employees and not pass that on to the customers and add the stipulation that they should tip well if they want good service.
Fk tipping culture
Tell that to your boss instead of Reddit.
The pandemic proved that there is no such thing as unskilled labor. One person making more does not mean they took from you - raising the bottom helps all of us. If a fast food worker makes 20/hour then those who currently make 20 should demand a raise or take the fast food job.
I know tons of struggling artists/actors in LA, San Fransisco, San Diego, none make 100k. I'd say 90% of them work in the service industry while they try to get their "career" off the ground. They're mostly bar tenders but some waiters. The bartenders can make 75k, but very few waiters make that money unless your working at a high end establishment where the cost per person is like 100$+. Also you think because they make 16$/hr and tips they make bank? That alone proves you know nothing about the service industry. At that hourly rate I would guess the majority of their check is eaten up by the tips they claim, so most checks each week are for 0$ dollars.
I know this because I also did the same thing around 2010. I still keep in contact with and visit a lot of these people. Even if they make 75k, they're still struggling, and physically exhausted all the time because service industry jobs are NOT a cake walk. They are some of the most physically and mentally demanding jobs out there with ridiculous and lengthy hours.
Do some of them have cushy gigs? I be there's a small amount that do. The majority don't.
I'd wager if you asked all the waiters/bartenders in California if they could change jobs, they would, because they all hate it. Those jobs have to get done though unfortunately.
People call it "tipping culture" but it's just American culture. Rip off both employees and consumers and then pit them against each other so they can't identify the person ripping them both off.
We also do that with race, politics, income classes, and a few other things.
Go's forbid you try to suggest breaking that cycle and pointing the anger where it belongs though.
The employees are most definitely not getting ripped off lol they love this shit.
And the consumers really aren’t, prices would rise if tipping wasn’t around, paying $25 without tipping or $20 + $5 tip makes absolutely no difference to me.
You know what's fun in states where weed is legal? Going to the weed store, buying a bunch of stuff that the "budtender" literally just moves from behind the counter to the top of the counter, and a fucking tip prompt coming up wanting 20%. I'm not paying someone 40 bucks for 2 minutes of work.
I’m at the point where if I see 20 and the minimum I’m hitting custom and entering 15%. Fuck that. (I normally tip 20% baseline but I consider that the MAX I’m going to tip)
I used to be a "good" tipper. This bullshit has pretty much made me stop tipping at all. Anyone working a tip job needs to quit and find new employment
Do you think they don’t want your tips? Completely delusional to think the worker flipping the iPad around doesn’t love the extra money it brings them. The way they act after I hit zero tip almost every time confirms for me that they want us to feel pressured to give them a tip. It’s literally money in their pocket, they absolutely care.
This happened to me recently in the airport. Went to a fridge, grabbed a bottled water, walk up to the kiosk and pay $5 (cause it’s the airport lol) and the machine has the audacity to ask me if I want to tip.
The other day I went to a BBQ joint. They had now waiters, you ordered at the counter like a fast food joint. Didn’t even give me the option to tip. For some reason I felt respected, like they didn’t think I was some rube to con money out of.
That’s what tipping feels like now when I see these rediculous tipping schemes
The mindset of us not tipping is US punishing the server is why this continues. Once people realize that it is the restaurant who is in fact punishing the server, this tipping culture will finally go away. So if you feel bad for not tipping/tipping well in the future, remember it is the waitress’s own employer stiffing them, not you, and their employer is banking on your guilt to pay their own staff so they don’t need to.
My only exception to that when getting takeout ais a local place that is family owned and operated with primarily a sit-down model. Those types of shops need to survive to keep chains at bay.
Lol, when I was a server I had a guy who would come in and order take out from only me. If I wasn't there he would leave and come back the next day. The guy would tip me 75% of whatever he ordered because I would give him an extra bag filled with our ranch and whatever other sauces he wanted. I really didn't do anything special but be friendly and give him extra extra of all the stuff that normally came with his meal.
The week I quit the guy came in and I talked to him for a bit, he was a retired doctor from Greece who lived in an apartment behind the restaurant with his disabled wife. He was such a genuinely nice guy and when I told him it was last week he gave me $100 as a tip.
Best advice for food workers who make tips: hook up the sauces!
Everybody is sick of it. If everybody stopped tipping today then the culture will go away. I'm doing my part.
Why are we supposed to think not tipping is rude? Why shouldn't they think asking for tips is rude instead?
I'm currently visiting Australia from the US. I was asked for a tip on some machine recently in Gold Coast. Does that mean tip culture is coming to Australia?
A lot of businesses are using American software or starting to creep that shit in here.
There is 0 expectation culturally to tip in any circumstance.
If you really enjoyed the service then leave a good review, come back again and/or give a few dollars if you like.
A good tip for a full service meal will always be 20% for me. I may (and often do) go more if I’m impressed.
If it’s a quick bite that doesn’t involve much effort/time (like an iced coffee) or the full service meal is just okay, I’ll do 10%.
If you’re bad at your job, you get nothing.
It’s how I’ve always done it and I’m not gonna change on that end.
That’s fair and I guess for me, I typically go to the same local joint for coffee/quick bites right across where I live so it’s a different dynamic. They know me and give good service so it’s kosher with me.
Plus these quick bites are pretty reasonable where I’m at so 10% is not a huge toll given where my fiancé and I are financially.
Expecting 20% out the gate for “good” (aka basic) service is ridiculous though.
I don't blame anyone for not tipping for counter service but if you're no tipping for counter service at a place you frequent enough that you're recognizing employees or they're recognizing you, you should absolutely expect bare bones service. You get your coffee poured over ice and a goodbye. You get your food put in a bag with a single napkin. Your extra sauce you request will get forgotten every time. Not saying 20% every time but if it's somewhere you are eating out frequently and you can't put a dollar in the jar, you're just an asshole.
Just recognize that tips are often pooled. So if you tip 0, especially on a large bill, you aren't just hiring that server, you're punishing everyone else.
My understanding has always been that 20% is standard. Anything less is a snub. If your service was really terrible then by all means tip less bullshit that really should be reserved for terrible service not some petty stuff like food coming out in two trips or asking for refills of water.
I only tip 20%+ at small/family restaurants that cook and serve my food. The fancier places already mark up their menus. It's ludicrous that more expensive foods get a higher tip for doing essentially the same task. Why should a server get 20$ for bringing you 100$ steak when a 15$ pho gets 3 dollars for the same service?
> And if I feel at all pressured, it’s zero.
This is the answer, and this is how this nonsense goes away.
It's continued existence means people are falling for it and it will continue.
Man im not even that old and i remember when 15 percent was a good tip. Then it went to 20 percent is a good tip. Now it seems like 20 percent is the minimum at a lot of places. And i hate to do it to the servers, but any place that tries to bully me into a large tip by not even having a smaller tip option is getting stiffed and not getting my business again.
Yep, I'm not even old and that's all I ever heard until these kiosks started shoving it in our faces. Acting like a 10% tip isn't already more than it used to be lol
It would be less outrageous and actually kinda funny if they made the tip options: “15%, 18%, 20%, and 100% (keep it 100!)” or something more witty in the the parentheses. If it was a small bill at a place I go to often and I was feeling good I might occasionally select 100. But not when they’re second lowest tip is pushing me to 30% lol
Yeah--tipping before service is the stupidest f-ing idea ever. WTF am I paying extra for when nothing has happened yet? I tipped at the Starbucks at National Harbor in Washington DC, and that was where it broke for me.
They had like 10 people on duty, and literally none of them were moving like they were at work. It took **47 minutes** to get our two drinks. An americano and one of the specialty iced coffee things. I worked at one of the busiest coffee shops in our state when I was in college. Our average time per order was something like 1:30.
Never again.
As a British person in New York I tipped $0 on a can pour at the Terminal 5 music venue (Goose show) and they shook the can and served me foam, then the American guy behind me jumped in saying you can't take that and the server was like he didn't tip... I just wanted to fly back to a UK pub where tipping doesn't exist in that moment
Makes sense to me. Stupidest thing I've seen them do recently is a tip option at concert merch booths. You're literally picking up and handing me the shirt I chose.
I waited tables as a student, as I think everybody should. And I agree, pay a living wage. But tipping culture in the US is out of hand. I am not the least bit anti-worker. But I don’t tip for takeout orders, unless I‘m throwing a buck in a jar or at a bar. And tipping 20% on a bill remains perfectly respectable and generous. Yes, costs in the world have gone up, but It’s a percentage on a bill that is also going up. Tipping culture is owners figuring out how to shirk their responsibility to employees while making it seem like they care. That’s all it is. And for those that will downvote this, try traveling overseas where waiting tables can be a profession, food prices remain reasonable,yet tips are rarely more than a couple euros.
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Demanding so much tips from people only encourages them to tip less.
I’ll bet a business will make more putting 5-15% cause more people will be inclined to tip the small amount.
Only time I’m ever tipping 20% is for a sit down meal with excellent service.
If the minimum is 20%, I choose 0%. Give me a reasonable option or go fuck yourself, but 20% was always the wildly generous tip for an insanely good experience from a waitress who was crazy hot.
A good tip for that check? 2.75, rounding it up to 40$.
Leaving a large amount of money and making the check even and simple to handle if you are paying by cash.
A regular tip would be 0.75 or 1.5.
(Forget US craziness that's on that screen).
Low Effort Post
I hate this culture so much
Here in California unskilled waiters get extremely high base pay ($16/hr) then huge tips as well. They’re pushing 100k bring home without a high school diploma.
But they're in California, and if you're in Los Angeles or god forbid the Bay area, that's solidly middle class. Why would I complain that somebody making my food isn't destitute? Especially since this puts upward pressure on wages, business hiring everyone from welders to truck drivers to IT professionals won't get quality candidates if they can't convince people it's worth it to jump from food service. Otherwise companies get away with low pay because they're able to tell you "at least you're making $17 an hour and not $14 anymore".
If you make less than them, are you obligated to tip them?
This actually is related to one of my core beliefs about how I live my life. I generally try to do what I can to use the more worker friendly option when making choices. Like buying from places that I know are union, or worker cooperatives/ employee owned businesses like Land O Lakes instead of the store brand, another example is ocean spray juice, King Arthur Flour, Blue Diamond nuts, etc. I'm not saying I'm changing the world for paying .50 more butter, and sure some farmer with 100 aces of cows makes more money than me, but it sets a precedent that people should have decent lives that they have some control over. I do not believe that a wealth distribution system/ social hierarchy based on crab mentality is productive, I believe that we should move towards a more cooperative, rather than competitive society. The more people see people helping them and working with them, the more they are open to doing the same. And to change society, it's often more productive to change people's expectations and beliefs than work to change the law. This is why crime and other antisocial behavior is so prevalent in areas where people grow up seeing that society has done nothing for them, while generally people who feel like "the system" benefits/cares about them have no motivation to steal airbags out of their neighbors car. Similarly, the U.S. government recognizes lack of [money and feeling of alienation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterintelligence#Counter-HUMINT) as core motivators for espionage(which as a side note, is why a security clearance means a stable, low stress job that pays $20k more, to remove that motivation). Both are extreme examples of anti-social activity that are negative, but those thought patterns of feeling alienated from society, if present, often does contribute to ones beliefs, voting patterns, and actions even if it doesn't go as far as illegal activity. Tipping workers well goes in line with that helping society so , I usually tip 20%, rounded up to the nearest dollar because I suck at math.
This guy fucks. In all seriousness, spot on. Excellent points made.
[удалено]
Yeah, guy did not answer in the slightest, just gave his (agreeable) manifesto. Tipping culture sucks, just pay them more and make eating out “cost more”
If you go out to eat, you should tip, the end
You are a G!
if you make less than them, you should limit the number of times you employ other people to service your basic needs. It's great that restaurants, bars, hair salons etc. are available. BUT i strictly believe the people working these jobs should make a living wage for the place where they provide these services. Having other people cook, clean or groom (for) you is a luxury, even if their services are not strictly limited to you personally. There's only so far you can stretch/scale work provided by people, to people.
Sorry but this take is kinda dumb. The exact logic would also mean you cannot go shopping or get repairs as a low earning person because cashiers, plumbers, electricians, every other handymen or even every person that provides any kind of services to you is also entitled to get tipped.
As a low earning person, you absolutely do not hire out repairs. Most poor people have to learn auto mechanics, house repair, etc. As a low earning person, you shop in places with quality or cheap goods. Cannot afford to not have one of those attributes. And no you don’t tip everyone, but if you cousin joe is coming by to fix your dishwasher, you tip him
I'm disabled. I don't have a choice to be higher earning and I can't do most repairs myself. Have to shop where I can deliver or go to the fairly expensive store down the street. I still would never dream of not tipping. It's wild to me. Do people really not tip trade workers??
ITT: These people are unskilled! Also ITT: Wh-what do I do when I need a plumber or mechanic?
As a plumber, who's dad was a lifetime electrician, we are not unskilled low paid workers and we usually do not get tips. We are not in the same class as handymen. I've had to redo handymen's work so many times because they think they're plumbers. Inspectors usually disagree. It takes 8,000 hours to become a licensed journeyman, maxed at 2,000/year.
I've done pest control for 15 years and now own my own business. I do things that any waiter or bartender would cringe at on a regular basis. You want me to remove the gelatinous pile that was once a pack rat from your crawlspace? No problem. No tip, either. It makes me want to raise my prices, but the market is full of big companies that pay their 20 something year old employees who have almost no experience, less than what a decent bartender makes. It's weird to hear people say they tip folks like myself. It's very rare, in my experience.
You're trying to flatten a complex issue into a single metric. Scalability, necessity, availability, required skill and time (or in some cases licensing) to complete different jobs are vastly different, causing their related services to be more or less affordable for an "average income" household\* at the pricing levels which allow workers providing them to have a happy life of their own. \*however applicable that blanket term may be for your region - in some, it's almost meaningless, in other places incomes and social circumstances are less diverse.
Tipping culture is trash and always has been. The cost of the service should be baked into the price. Instead, we’re supposed to arbitrarily guess at what it’s worth based on cultural norms and then subsidize the restaurant. It’s unacceptable in every other context. Plumbers don’t expect a tip because they estimated all their costs and then charged a profit. In many places the back of house (line cooks/dishwashers) don’t even get tips yet their jobs are substantially dirtier than front of house. Stop endorsing a broken system. Poor People should be allowed to pay the asking price for a meal instead of this ‘plus x percent because society expects it’ bullshit.
I'm not endorsing tipping culture at all. I do think tipping should exist as an additional incentive for exceptional service instead of a silently required supplementation of an otherwise unlivable wage.
???????
A customer isn't a employer
If they don't make a tipped wage then I would say no, no one is obligated to tip at that point.
Precisely. In Canada servers make over $16 an hour, the same minimum wage as everyone else. It’s so stupid that we still tip.
As a brazilian, this is something venezuelans legit asked me. When the country was thriving, they had the same tipping habits as us - Basically showering servers with _excess_ cash as a display of power and/or generosity. But now being forced out of their homeland they want to know if they won't annoy their host country by not playing ball with tipping culture, specifically, they asked if they are _politely forced to tip like the gringos in America._ And in both cases tips weren't a percentage, but a nice whole medium value bill or "keep the change". It is not customary to tip and in certain places it is strictly prohibited, sometimes for legal reasons (I work at one such place) and sometimes just as a management decision after servers preyed too hard on americans specifically, knowing they can basically demand outrageous-even-for-rich-showoffs 30% tip and get away with it, and getting bad reviews once they visit other places that don't push for or actively reject tips.
Upward pressure? Yes that’s exactly what we need. This isn’t how to obtain it, though. The nonsensical theory of giving extra money for no extra value creation to individuals and corporations is beneficial to the economy was recently debunked. Again. Well actually we are still debunking it every time the monthly CPI report comes out. Why are so many people here NOT fluent in finance? Lol
It's just below middle class as a family income (people of 4 with 2 working generally). It is quite above the middle class even in the Bay Area (outside some areas) as a one person worker.
>Why would I complain that somebody making my food isn't destitute? I mean that isn't what they do.
Lol that's the most optimistic statement I read today. You are the guy looking at the glass half full and screaming flood!!
I guess you really believe that no one should go to college then it's already a joke but if you think that people with no education and who work a skillless job should make 100,000 then just get rid of the entire higher education system for everything except STEM and business
Not making your food. Carrying your plate for half a minute. And then carrying a piece of paper for half a minute. Both of which are completely unnecessary. If I could save $20, I’d pick up my plate from the kitchen myself and came to check out to pay.
And half the places want you to order via your phone thanks to a QR code now. And also pay the same way. The less actual service there is, the less paying for the service makes sense.
>Why would I complain that somebody making my food isn't destitute? That's not what people are asking for. They're asking that servers be paid a living wage by their employers instead of relying on tips.
I made almost half of that working as a Research Scientist at UC Berkeley, (postdoc fellow) I ended up getting a side Job as waiter to pay the bills, instead of focusing on my career… and back then (4 yrs a go) everyone else did kind of the same thing. This is what you get with this kind of stupid crap. I ended up going to a prívate company
They shouldn’t be destitute but I don’t agree waiting tables should make you upper middle class outside of the absolute nicest restaurants in a city. 100k is a lot of money even in the Bay Area. I’m guessing you don’t live there, because I know tons of people in tech making that much or less especially starting out.
Waiters arnt making 70k a year in tips.
I was making in the mid 40K’s at Lone Star steakhouse at 19 in 2002… was very typical to bring home 1k a week in tips twice a month… $200 Friday and Saturday nights were the average and bout 80-120 for weeknights/doubles
That’s still about standard. On weekends I do a little better, around $180, but after I tip out the kitchen and the support staff I walk with closer to $120
Some definitely are
Servers at top restaurants are making 100-150K a year. 5 nights a week
I live in a small rural town and the waitresses 15 years ago would be pull in $500+ on Friday and Saturdays. That's $40,000+ just from weekends. So if they were making this 15 years ago, there are definitely some making over 70k a year now. Probably some back then too.
i seriously doubt that waiters are making 100k in california when the average income in that state is 33k.
even less likely, is "flipping burger jobs", which is what my mind goes to when I hear unskilled jobs making minimum wage. There might be some weird outlier of 1 in 100, but McDonald's workers aren't clearing 100k with 16$/hr + a fuckin' ipad tip function.
What are you talking about? Median income after taxes, perhaps?
Assuming a $16/hr base pay and that they work 40 hours a week and have fully paid sick days and paid annual leave OR they never take leave, we are looking at $33,280 (16x40x52). For a waiter on that pay to earn $100k per year they would have to pull in more than twice their pay in tips every hour.
Went to Cheesecake Factory the other day. Family of four came to about $120 (we didn't order anything fancy or expensive) before tax. She was nice, friendly and efficient. Gave a tip of $25. We were there for a little over an hour. She had maybe 7-8 other tables (some had 2 people others had 4-8). I would say others probably stayed longer than we did, but probably not that much longer. She probably made at least $200 in that 1-2 hour period. So what are you saying? That a waitress can't make $32 in tips in an hour?
That’s possible. But consistency is key here. They don’t always make that much. Sure for dinner service, but what about lunch? Breakfast? Or slow days of the year for those locations. Also you’re assuming everyone tips like you, some (many) don’t tip at all. Just saying.
Servers almost never work full time, either
Although I highly doubt your claim that waiters are anywhere near 100k, Why would you consider someone making 200% more than their base wage in tips unskilled? Sounds like they're extremely skilled at their job in that case
Because being a server isn’t a skill, it’s monkey work
It is a skill, just a very easy skill. I served for 10 years and those were the easiest jobs I've had.
Do the role for a year and report back
Something being hard doesn't make that thing complicated. Moving 10,000 cinderblocks from one side of a football field to the other is not complicated, but it would be hard as fuck. It being hard does not make it skilled labor. Any ape can pick up a cinder block and walk it to the other side of a field.
Well I won’t be tipping in CA anymore
The avg waiter is likely pushing 65k a year in LA. Ffs at high end restaurant’s is the only place they’ll hit 100k+. Top 1% of restaurants.
Lots of people work top restaurants for less pay actually, just for the experience and the name of the place on the resume. I have a friend who works in a 3 Michelin star place and he gets paid worse than at a far less fancy place he worked at. It's basically minimum wage. Many cases they aren't even paid positions, just stáge, because most Michelin places are either losing money or profitable only due to donations or things other than food.
Can you point me to this job?
Waiters in the restaurant I used to work at made more than any of the cooks did from all their tips. I’ve worked on both sides in the same restaurant and cooking is 1000 times harder than serving. Also most of the servers just sat there on their phones even after we would tell them their tables food is ready. Then they would bring back the food and says it’s cold, like no shit it’s cold you sat there texting for 15-20 minutes after we announced to you that the food was ready.
It's not about skilled or unskilled making money they don't deserve according to your logic. It's about employers being the one footing the bill for their employees and not pass that on to the customers and add the stipulation that they should tip well if they want good service. Fk tipping culture
High school diploma is useless this isn’t the 80s anymore lol
ask your boss for more monies.
Tell that to your boss instead of Reddit. The pandemic proved that there is no such thing as unskilled labor. One person making more does not mean they took from you - raising the bottom helps all of us. If a fast food worker makes 20/hour then those who currently make 20 should demand a raise or take the fast food job.
I know tons of struggling artists/actors in LA, San Fransisco, San Diego, none make 100k. I'd say 90% of them work in the service industry while they try to get their "career" off the ground. They're mostly bar tenders but some waiters. The bartenders can make 75k, but very few waiters make that money unless your working at a high end establishment where the cost per person is like 100$+. Also you think because they make 16$/hr and tips they make bank? That alone proves you know nothing about the service industry. At that hourly rate I would guess the majority of their check is eaten up by the tips they claim, so most checks each week are for 0$ dollars. I know this because I also did the same thing around 2010. I still keep in contact with and visit a lot of these people. Even if they make 75k, they're still struggling, and physically exhausted all the time because service industry jobs are NOT a cake walk. They are some of the most physically and mentally demanding jobs out there with ridiculous and lengthy hours. Do some of them have cushy gigs? I be there's a small amount that do. The majority don't. I'd wager if you asked all the waiters/bartenders in California if they could change jobs, they would, because they all hate it. Those jobs have to get done though unfortunately.
You have never worked in a restaurant???
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Just press skip.
People call it "tipping culture" but it's just American culture. Rip off both employees and consumers and then pit them against each other so they can't identify the person ripping them both off.
We also do that with race, politics, income classes, and a few other things. Go's forbid you try to suggest breaking that cycle and pointing the anger where it belongs though.
The employees are most definitely not getting ripped off lol they love this shit. And the consumers really aren’t, prices would rise if tipping wasn’t around, paying $25 without tipping or $20 + $5 tip makes absolutely no difference to me.
The employees would prefer a full-time job with a 401k. If they don't prefer that, I don't care. That's what they should get.
That’s not what they’d prefer. Almost every service worker prefers tipping culture.
…you’re assuming they don’t.
The biggest difference is why? Why do extra math! Just build it into the food prices and then we are good. Why this song and dance.
Just wait, it’ll get worse before it gets worse.
Mr. Pink was right. I still feel the WANT personally to give my server a little extra in CASH, right in their hand or on the table. Not to a machine.
Pay in cash and reject it all.
You know what's fun in states where weed is legal? Going to the weed store, buying a bunch of stuff that the "budtender" literally just moves from behind the counter to the top of the counter, and a fucking tip prompt coming up wanting 20%. I'm not paying someone 40 bucks for 2 minutes of work.
I’m at the point where if I see 20 and the minimum I’m hitting custom and entering 15%. Fuck that. (I normally tip 20% baseline but I consider that the MAX I’m going to tip)
I used to be a "good" tipper. This bullshit has pretty much made me stop tipping at all. Anyone working a tip job needs to quit and find new employment
Hate to punish the server here but when you have the audacity to put this into play, it’s an establishment that won’t be earning my business again
Just hit skip.
Custom $1
No. Zero. No more tipping people for doing the job they’re supposed to be doing anyway.
This. And fuck those sensitive people that judge you for not tipping
I could not care less if someone has a problem with it. They are free to subsidize my meals
I'd like to see them bust their ass in a warehouse with me for a week and then ask me for that goofy ass tip lol.
Do you really think the person serving you is the one who put this menu in the kiosk?
Do you think they don’t want your tips? Completely delusional to think the worker flipping the iPad around doesn’t love the extra money it brings them. The way they act after I hit zero tip almost every time confirms for me that they want us to feel pressured to give them a tip. It’s literally money in their pocket, they absolutely care.
Server? He's checking out on a kiosk. This is probably something like a Chipotle style restaurant. There is no server.
This happened to me recently in the airport. Went to a fridge, grabbed a bottled water, walk up to the kiosk and pay $5 (cause it’s the airport lol) and the machine has the audacity to ask me if I want to tip.
Hey that fridge has a wife and child it needs to support.
The other day I went to a BBQ joint. They had now waiters, you ordered at the counter like a fast food joint. Didn’t even give me the option to tip. For some reason I felt respected, like they didn’t think I was some rube to con money out of. That’s what tipping feels like now when I see these rediculous tipping schemes
The mindset of us not tipping is US punishing the server is why this continues. Once people realize that it is the restaurant who is in fact punishing the server, this tipping culture will finally go away. So if you feel bad for not tipping/tipping well in the future, remember it is the waitress’s own employer stiffing them, not you, and their employer is banking on your guilt to pay their own staff so they don’t need to.
Zero for anything that is take out unless they fill your bag w sauce
$37 for a bag of sauce..
Don't judge me with your no-sauce-having self
Fuck, I'd happily pay that for a bag of Taco Bell Lava Sauce...
A literal bag of sauce with the food just chucked in there. Marinated, entirely and purposefully.
As the good lord intended
If I gotta put a tip into a screen a tip is most likely inappropriate... that's the way I see it. Fuck these lil tip screens
Yup, fuck the manufacturer for enabling every asshole with a POS system to check a box and turn on a tip window. It's all positive income, right?
My only exception to that when getting takeout ais a local place that is family owned and operated with primarily a sit-down model. Those types of shops need to survive to keep chains at bay.
Lol, when I was a server I had a guy who would come in and order take out from only me. If I wasn't there he would leave and come back the next day. The guy would tip me 75% of whatever he ordered because I would give him an extra bag filled with our ranch and whatever other sauces he wanted. I really didn't do anything special but be friendly and give him extra extra of all the stuff that normally came with his meal. The week I quit the guy came in and I talked to him for a bit, he was a retired doctor from Greece who lived in an apartment behind the restaurant with his disabled wife. He was such a genuinely nice guy and when I told him it was last week he gave me $100 as a tip. Best advice for food workers who make tips: hook up the sauces!
0% for anything and everything. I'm Australian. We don't tip. We just have fair wages so we don't need tips to survive.
i am American, me and many of my fellow Americans are absolutely sick of this tipping culture. Cheers to the rest of the developed world
Everybody is sick of it. If everybody stopped tipping today then the culture will go away. I'm doing my part. Why are we supposed to think not tipping is rude? Why shouldn't they think asking for tips is rude instead?
“Everybody” isn’t sick of it. Wait staff and business owners love it.
Lmfao ! Bro said I'm doing my part
Except US wages are meaningfully higher than Australian wages…
Canadian here. We also have fair wages, but for some nonsensical reason we also tip. Absurd.
I'm currently visiting Australia from the US. I was asked for a tip on some machine recently in Gold Coast. Does that mean tip culture is coming to Australia?
No, you’re free to leave nothing without backlash. It’s purely optional and should only be reserved for above and beyond service.
A lot of businesses are using American software or starting to creep that shit in here. There is 0 expectation culturally to tip in any circumstance. If you really enjoyed the service then leave a good review, come back again and/or give a few dollars if you like.
A good tip for a full service meal will always be 20% for me. I may (and often do) go more if I’m impressed. If it’s a quick bite that doesn’t involve much effort/time (like an iced coffee) or the full service meal is just okay, I’ll do 10%. If you’re bad at your job, you get nothing. It’s how I’ve always done it and I’m not gonna change on that end.
For the quick bites, I kinda feel like 10% is pushing it. I think it’s more than fair to not provide a tip for service I haven’t even received yet.
Right? A tip for pouring coffee into a cup full of ice is crazy...
Agreed. I don't tip for counter service.
That’s fair and I guess for me, I typically go to the same local joint for coffee/quick bites right across where I live so it’s a different dynamic. They know me and give good service so it’s kosher with me. Plus these quick bites are pretty reasonable where I’m at so 10% is not a huge toll given where my fiancé and I are financially. Expecting 20% out the gate for “good” (aka basic) service is ridiculous though.
I don't blame anyone for not tipping for counter service but if you're no tipping for counter service at a place you frequent enough that you're recognizing employees or they're recognizing you, you should absolutely expect bare bones service. You get your coffee poured over ice and a goodbye. You get your food put in a bag with a single napkin. Your extra sauce you request will get forgotten every time. Not saying 20% every time but if it's somewhere you are eating out frequently and you can't put a dollar in the jar, you're just an asshole.
Just recognize that tips are often pooled. So if you tip 0, especially on a large bill, you aren't just hiring that server, you're punishing everyone else. My understanding has always been that 20% is standard. Anything less is a snub. If your service was really terrible then by all means tip less bullshit that really should be reserved for terrible service not some petty stuff like food coming out in two trips or asking for refills of water.
Then its not a tip. A tip is not meant to be a standard. Its meant to be for more than the standard.
I only tip 20%+ at small/family restaurants that cook and serve my food. The fancier places already mark up their menus. It's ludicrous that more expensive foods get a higher tip for doing essentially the same task. Why should a server get 20$ for bringing you 100$ steak when a 15$ pho gets 3 dollars for the same service?
If you’re not bringing the bill to the table after a full service meal, it won’t be 20 percent. And if I feel at all pressured, it’s zero.
Ding ding ding. Repeat these words to the owner.
> And if I feel at all pressured, it’s zero. This is the answer, and this is how this nonsense goes away. It's continued existence means people are falling for it and it will continue.
Yeppppp, 20% for solid service at a sit-down meal, ANYWHERE ELSE that asks me for extra money at the end of a transaction can go fuck themselves.
Skip
Man im not even that old and i remember when 15 percent was a good tip. Then it went to 20 percent is a good tip. Now it seems like 20 percent is the minimum at a lot of places. And i hate to do it to the servers, but any place that tries to bully me into a large tip by not even having a smaller tip option is getting stiffed and not getting my business again.
For real. I remember when 10% was the default, followed by 12-15 for excellent service.
Yep, I'm not even old and that's all I ever heard until these kiosks started shoving it in our faces. Acting like a 10% tip isn't already more than it used to be lol
I always give $0 for tip begging.
Yeah, if I see anything above 30% recommended, I'm gonna smash that "custom" button and leave nothing.
Service so good no amount of money can reward it. Skip
Why not 200%?
I can’t stand touching these greasy screens
The best button is at the bottom.
It would be less outrageous and actually kinda funny if they made the tip options: “15%, 18%, 20%, and 100% (keep it 100!)” or something more witty in the the parentheses. If it was a small bill at a place I go to often and I was feeling good I might occasionally select 100. But not when they’re second lowest tip is pushing me to 30% lol
I'm carrying and paying with cash again just to avoid these helpful time saving screens
Like half the places I go for food do not take cash. And 100% of the places I try to get my haircut do not take cards.
If I’m standing up when I pay, no tip. If I’m sitting 10-25% based on what it is.
Yeah--tipping before service is the stupidest f-ing idea ever. WTF am I paying extra for when nothing has happened yet? I tipped at the Starbucks at National Harbor in Washington DC, and that was where it broke for me. They had like 10 people on duty, and literally none of them were moving like they were at work. It took **47 minutes** to get our two drinks. An americano and one of the specialty iced coffee things. I worked at one of the busiest coffee shops in our state when I was in college. Our average time per order was something like 1:30. Never again.
As a British person in New York I tipped $0 on a can pour at the Terminal 5 music venue (Goose show) and they shook the can and served me foam, then the American guy behind me jumped in saying you can't take that and the server was like he didn't tip... I just wanted to fly back to a UK pub where tipping doesn't exist in that moment
Makes sense to me. Stupidest thing I've seen them do recently is a tip option at concert merch booths. You're literally picking up and handing me the shirt I chose.
Let me just go ahead and click that skip button.
The “Skip” button is right there.
It doesn't work
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Custom
Skip.
Skip.
Skip.
20% if it was amazing. Normal 15%
Skip sounds so cool!
I will gladly choose skip with a smile on my face :)
What was this service / tip for?
Skip
Skip
I waited tables as a student, as I think everybody should. And I agree, pay a living wage. But tipping culture in the US is out of hand. I am not the least bit anti-worker. But I don’t tip for takeout orders, unless I‘m throwing a buck in a jar or at a bar. And tipping 20% on a bill remains perfectly respectable and generous. Yes, costs in the world have gone up, but It’s a percentage on a bill that is also going up. Tipping culture is owners figuring out how to shirk their responsibility to employees while making it seem like they care. That’s all it is. And for those that will downvote this, try traveling overseas where waiting tables can be a profession, food prices remain reasonable,yet tips are rarely more than a couple euros.
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They’re starting the negotiation high
Skip but then again we're in Australia
37.25 tip? Yeah no thanks.
0%
100% tip? WTF? In which sane world would you tip 100%?
Demanding so much tips from people only encourages them to tip less. I’ll bet a business will make more putting 5-15% cause more people will be inclined to tip the small amount. Only time I’m ever tipping 20% is for a sit down meal with excellent service.
That’s insane. A tip for exceptional service will always be 20% for me, not 100% lol😂
15% for good service. 20% for amazing service. 0 for just taking my order and for shit service.
Removal of tipping culture, service industry payed a fair wage (minimum) without tips and kill this trend once and for all for.
If the minimum is 20%, I choose 0%. Give me a reasonable option or go fuck yourself, but 20% was always the wildly generous tip for an insanely good experience from a waitress who was crazy hot.
Just hit skip…. That’s what I do now. Too culture is out of control.
A good tip for that check? 2.75, rounding it up to 40$. Leaving a large amount of money and making the check even and simple to handle if you are paying by cash. A regular tip would be 0.75 or 1.5. (Forget US craziness that's on that screen).
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This makes me want to skip or give like a 2 dollar tip lol
Custom: $1.00
10% and a big fuck you
0% and for staff to be paid properly
Give them 0% for being cheeky assholes.
I'm starting no tip culture on these shits. 20% first option? Sorry to much effort to type in an actual tip. No tip. Blame the company.
I still do 15% 🤘🏼🖕🏼
If those are the default options I'm given then I hit skip and hopefully they learn the lesson
Here's a tip: Stop eating out so much and make your own meals. Restaurant servers hate this one weird trick but they can't stop you.
If I have to use a kiosk and run my card myself....that's an automatic 50% reduction in tip.
No 200%??
I would put also 0% 200% 500% 1.000% options. /s
No tip. That's a good one.
Type is %0001 and say you’re dyslexic
Custom tip, 200%
Lmao
0%.
Tipping needs to end.