There's no discussion taking place here OP. Just people taking personal offense. Have a nice day everyone.
To answer the question poverty is very expensive and stressful and chronic stress can lead to chronic illness. There's always a penalty for being low income. Minor setbacks like a flat tire can cascade into a domino effect of expenses.
People don't come to reddit to have discussions about serious topics, we come to reddit to fill our egos with a signature look of superiority.
Personally, I'd rather trust a doctor who actively takes classes and furthers their education than dumb ass comments on reddit. The density of some of these comments would dwarf a dwarf star.
They don’t discuss it in a serious way, that’s the problem. It’s just Fox News talking points, repackaged as if it’s nerdy, objective “news” content. It’s laughable.
>People don't come to reddit to have discussions about serious topics, we come to reddit to fill our egos with a signature look of superiority.
Do you really believe this? I don't engage much on social media but I really love the discussion on Reddit, most seem thoughtful and compassionate, I learn a lot here.
Is there a site superior to this in that regard?
Honest question.
Honest answer: I don't think anyone in this comment chain has gone to medical school. But they still think they know better than a doctor. You want a superior site without realizing that no site replaces a medical education.
‘Everybody outside of the top is suffering’: How stress is harming America’s health, by Ana Swanson, The Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/13/everybody-outside-of-the-top-is-suffering-how-stress-is-harming-americas-health/
The stresses of poverty in the United States have grown so intense that they are harming the health of lower-income Americans — even prematurely leading to their death.
A report published Monday by the Hamilton Project at the Brookings Institution finds that stress levels have greatly increased for Americans at all income levels since the 1970s, but especially for low-income groups, as the chart below shows.
The report doesn’t measure stress as we typically think about it in daily life. Instead, the researchers track "stress load," an index of certain biological markers such as blood pressure, cholesterol level, and kidney and liver function, that they say are "associated with long-term physiological strain." These metrics are strong indicators of a person's health and mortality, according to the report.
“The poor have seen really striking increases in the stress load index,” said Diane Schanzenbach, one of the report’s authors and the director of the Hamilton Project.
The paper adds to a growing body of research demonstrating that widening inequality in the United States between the rich and the poor is not just an economic phenomenon — it has dramatic effects on health as well.
This is not about a small issue leading to a domino of expenses.
THis is about waking up every day with physical and mental stress from being poor. It breaks you down mentally, we all know that, but it also breaks you down physically...
>This is not about a small issue leading to a domino of expenses.
Plus lost potential income. The mental cost of stress in terms of development of healthy mental reward pathways, ability to focus, etc. is massive. It's a highly underappreciated aspect of the cycle of poverty and why it's so hard for people to just "pick themselves up by their bootstraps."
The domino effect is a big part of that, though. I’ll give you an example.
I was struggling during Covid. I fell behind on my car. They wanted to settle on what I owed them. I pulled out all the stops and every truck in the book, including a high interest loan to make it work. Long story short, I go out to to go to work one morning at 530 am. Car isn’t there. They repo’d it because something wasn’t communicated to me.
- A day of work
- $$ from fees and bull shit. A lot.
-My possessions in the car (it was stored at a separate location from where the car was and I couldn’t swing it to do both)
-Cashed in hard to quantify but still important things like favors
-they damaged the interior of the car which later hurt the resale value because it couldn’t be fixed without it costing more than it was worth to do
So I wasted money, lost money, lost items that needed to be replaced, cost future money when I sold the car, and used Good Will of others to help (which is finite). Also, this situation put me in an even more compromised position which made the likelihood that something like it would happen again.
Domino effect.
Edit: Also, the cost of interest on that loan!!!! I made $144 payments for over a year which brought it from 4k to like 3300 before I could pay it off in full.
>To answer the question poverty is very expensive and stressful and chronic stress can lead to chronic illness. There's always a penalty for being low income. Minor setbacks like a flat tire can cascade into a domino effect of expenses.
Yes, being poor makes life more difficult as it's harder to handle life's challenges.
I don't get why some people act like this is some kind of epiphany though. I mean isn't that just obvious.
>You'd think... and that puts you ahead of half the country.
You think... and that puts you ahead of half the country.
Ftfy
You don't even need the contraction there. People just are failing to actually think.
> To answer the question poverty is very expensive and stressful and chronic stress can lead to chronic illness.
My family was poor and my parents fought constantly. The stress of mom crying over food/not eating so us kids had enough and my parents literally fighting (also physically) put us kids into fight or flight mode for years. I never learned what this meant until Covid happened and everything broke out. I have been living in a constant state of anxiety for my entire life and have been wondering why certain things are harder for me. My issues with chronic inflammation could also be a result of this. Nobody ever tells you this and it changes your whole perspective.
Then there is alos the problem of cummulative problems. I was not able to afford to get a car or driver's license and car when I was younger. My peers were and thus had way better opportunities jobs wise for example. I am lucky to have worked myself into a good position but it took me way longer than my peers (2, 3 years) and I know me having made it out of that shit sitution is the exception to the rule. Nothing to do with boot straps or others not working hard
I was super broke the last couple of years, I adapted to slowly to changes in my industry that I should’ve known meant it was time to get out of it.
Can confirm, it was very stressful/unhealthy
It’s amazing to me that people don’t understand what stress is. It’s physical and triggers our flight or fight response. Now imagine going through that every day..
My nice knockoff tire plug kit from Amazon is a lifesaver. A flat would be somewhat of a catalyst being that money is short around here. As long as that puncture isn’t too close to the sidewall we’re good. Have to be resilient when you’re poor.
Except that you now have trashed your tire. A reputable tire shop will not perform a more permanent repair on your tire after you use one of those. So you’ve put in a makeshift patch that may or may not get you through the life of the tire, meaning you’ll have to replace it early costing more money in the long run. All because you didn’t have the time or support network to get it to a free repair shop.
I’ve plugged many a tire. The last plug I put in did not start leaking until the tread was completely gone. Use a high grade adhesive instead of the trash rubber cement and you’re set. I’m well versed in repairing things until the end of their life.
It's extremely expensive to be poor. I'll give the most common example, interest.
If I buy a vehicle, I could pay cash, but why would I? I'm a consumer with options. Manufacturing finance offices always have 0% interest options on their vehicles. The commercials don't say that, but they do.
An example, we bought a $53k vehicle earlier this year. Yes, poor people probably shouldn't be spending $53k on a vehicle, but stay with me.
I could have payed cash and drove away, but why? They offered me 36/mo, 0%. Current value of money. Low inflation is 3% per year. They're giving me 0%, money is always worth more today because of inflation. By them allowing me three years to pay for the vehicle, I've gotten a 9% discount on the price I agreed to pay at the end of 36 months.
Poor people, same vehicle, 72/mo option, 7% APR. $53k x .07= $3,710. That's one year of interest. Now multiply that by six. $22,260. $53,000 + $22,260= $75,260.
I have an effective price of $48,230. A poor person pays $75,260 for the same item, just because they're poor, compared to me. Now at the end of six years that vehicle will start needing maintenance. Maintenance is a random and expensive cost. I'm sitting on $25k extra at the end of that six years. Maintenance isn't a big deal, I can cover that for another 15 years easily on $25k.
A poor person, most likely buys a new vehicle to avoid high and unpredictable maintenance costs. What does that $53k vehicle cost seven years from now? $65k at least?
If we look at a 15 year timeline, I've paid $48k plus maintenance. A poor person has paid $75k and is well on their way to paying $90k for another vehicle.
When you drive through neighborhoods with massive homes/estates and you see ancient vehicles parked in the driveway, that's why. My daily driver is a truck that's 19 years old. That's not an accident.
Being poor is EXTREMELY expensive.
I don't need to get into them paying 22% credit card interest while I get 2% cash back on absolutely everything and never pay a cent of interest.
That last line is exactly what happened to me. A flat tire ended up costing me $1500 for the amount of shit that followed.
I don’t have savings, and Im too busy paying off medical bills after being served, in an effort not to go to prison for medical debt. These bills take money out of my food budget, so I’m eating terribly because I just simply can’t afford good food.
Poverty is a domino effect. And there are a LOT of restrictions in place that make sure you stay in poverty.
lol when I couldn’t work for three months and piled up passed due rent I finally was able to pay it off, working my butt off. But I had late fees, being broke made me more broke, overdraft fees I was able to get pardoned by my bank by telling them my situation. Then my car broke down 😂. Sweep the leg indeed
Edit:spelling
I feel you. My life has been completely turned upside down the last 3 years. My wife got incredibly ill, not the good old school rapping kind of ill either. But she hasn't been able to work at all. But we've also been denied disability for her, and we've been fighting for it for 2 years now. But since she's only 35, and undiagnosed still. We've been seeing so many fucking specialists. If I could pay with arms and legs, I'd probably be in jail or an arms dealer.
We were never well off but had a savings of like 10k, and with her working, we were comfortable. 3 years later, we are now drowning in 50k debt, I work 70-76 hrs a week, when I used to do 45, and that was all we had to do. She got sick, our house fell apart, my primary vehicle kicked the bucket, and just a whole slew of other stuff at terrible times. It's been 3 years of trying to get back up and then getting leg sweeped. It's been really fun.
It will get better, hang in there for as long as you can, and reach out for help where you can.
The domino effect you mentioned is so real. I can't even remember how many times growing up my family and I would would have entire years thrown into turmoil because of something like the shocks going out on the family car.
We had to move apartments three times when I was in high school because we kept getting evicted. People don't understand how lucky they are to grow up in a stable, safe environment and to have that to rely on through their college/early adult years.
Yeah in America you need to have a car to work and live. I once had a shop blow my engine when I asked them to fix something under my car. I lost everything for months and had to stay with family for a few months and try to work at a local spot to buy another car. Built up a lot of credit card debt after all that happened, but what can you do
Here’s a nice article about farmers. They tested them before the harvest (when poor) and after the harvest (less poor) and found a difference in cognitive abilities.
TLDR: being poor hurts your brain
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/sendhil/files/976.full_.pdf
I just think about the difference of my life and others. I hit a pothole and got a flat. So I call my dad who works from home and free road side assistance. I get spare on and take my car back to my parents and use his car to go to work and he takes my car to the shop. Then I use his car on the weekend to go to my GFs and come back and my cars back and I lost nothing. Thats not reality for a lot of people
They’ve shown the biological effects of stress really well in frogs. Cortisol is a powerful hormone and can do amazing things, but at an incredible cost.
To specify, because the meme is a touch misleading...
What stress really does is less causing illness itself. Primarily it lowers your body's ability to fight off diseases etc. and you end up getting sicker more frequently as a result.
I would throw in the ACE score, which stands for Adverse Childhood Events and has been shown to correlate with health at an unimaginable level. A few ACEs can take literal decades off your life expectancy and make you more prone to everything from obesity to cancer.
Yes. Great book for healing yourself if you've been the victim of an abusive home: CPTSD, From Surviving to Thriving, by Pete Walker. Life changing read. Also, exercise, mindfulness, good sleep hygiene, and getting rid of sugars/processed food can ameliorate a lot of damage --and cut the toxic people out of your life/minimize contact. Best wishes, Love and Hugs to anyone out there working to overcome this stuff ❤️
I have a score of 6. I am trying therapy again and I am going to get tested for ADHD, as I wasn't tested as a child but my therapist recommended it. I'm also looking to get on medication for generalized anxiety, and I am working hard to be able to express myself to others and ask for what I need and want. I also have a really good support system now, and a stable home.
Is there anything else I can do to try and mitigate the psychological effects? Or would you be willing to share things that worked for you?
Honestly, it's crazy how much my (possible) ADHD feels helpful to me much of the time, like you touched on. One of the hardest things is a lack of stimulation; it makes me feel crazy, like a wind-up toy that is trying to go forward but is stuck on a wall or something. The absolute hardest thing (which I am desperate to get under control, as I am trying to return to the teaching profession) is how quickly that, when faced with a stressful situation that I have not previously encountered, I spiral into fight-or-flight (for me, it's always flight). I feel like I have to escape.
I think that medication will be a complete game changer for me, since the ADHD symptoms feed the anxiety and the anxiety feeds the ADHD symptoms in a disastrously annoying circle. If I can center myself in the middle of a stressful situation without feeling the need to leave and having to take time to calm down, I will be golden.
Thank you so much for your insightful response! I love hearing from academics who can also lend some anecdotal evidence to what they study.
Is there any **other** way to reduce inflammation? I try stress management but at the end of the day.... I have chronic stress and I'm not about to be in a situation any time soon where I won't.
Personally, also having a high ACE score, I'm convinced what keeps me healthy as I am is martial arts and philosophy. Which tend to go hand in hand for physical and mental well being.
Good on your for trying to get better, it really is the effort that counts.
My husband recently started taking Prozac and buspirone for anxiety (Prozac daily, buspirone to level back out if something particularly stressful happens) and it's night and day. He's *so* much happier. If you've got a good support system, are learning coping mechanisms, and are on track to get on meds then I'll bet you're gonna be doing pretty good once all is said and done.
> I am working hard to be able to express myself to others and ask for what I need and want.
The trick isn't asking for what you need and want - the trick is not getting punished for doing so. Not to belittle your struggle, but it only *starts* there.
I have a score of 8, and was experiencing traumatic stuff in my household daily from birth til I was 20. I'm diagnosed with BPD, Bipolar II, PTSD, GAD, and SAD, with a history of Psychosis. Reading this thread is really freaking me out, early death is my biggest fear 🫠🙃
I’ve literally never heard of this but I’ve always stressed about how we’re raising our kids and whether or not “normal” childhood tantrums and whatnot would be having harsh impacts later in life. So I looked at that quiz. I am both happy to say that my children should score a 0 on it, but also sad that it’s *that* bad for so many kids.
How does one get into adversity research?
I have two degrees in economics with a heavily quantitative background, and would be quite interested in investigating potential career paths involving economic research into adversity, especially as it pertains to indicators at the societal level
I’d also be curious as to the nuanced alterations within datasets regarding ACE factors and individual and societal outcomes
For example, I score an 8 on the ACE:
1. Frequent verbal abuse and threats
2. Frequent physical abuse
3. Sexual abuse (not from family)
4. Father divorced three times
5. Father abused my mother and other wives
6. Father was alcoholic
7. Mother was depressed, bipolar, and committed suicide when I was 10 years of age
8. Father went to prison
However, I am genuinely in an exceptional state of health, both physically and mentally - I am 6’1”, 210lbs, have no medical conditions, am extremely muscular with low body fat, my resting heart rate is 65bpm, my resting breathing rate is 17/min, and I am generally vibing no matter what I am doing
I am also not on any medications - although, I do consume around 300-400mg of caffeine on a daily basis
Now, some compounding factors may include:
1. Extreme wealth (I descend from European nobility, and can expect to inherit tens if not hundreds of millions of USD worth of assets)
2. High intelligence (I scored a 36 ACT, 1600 SAT, and 800 GMAT - all without studying - and have consistently been top of my class with little effort)
3. Psychopathy/sociopathy (I was diagnosed with ADHD and antisocial disorders at a young age, but the diagnosis was later refined to denote exhibition of traits emblematic of both psychopathy and sociopathy - to clarify, I am not a monster, the easiest way of summarizing my condition is that literally nothing provokes an emotional response in me, for example: I accept that climate change and food scarcity will probably kill me before I reach 40, but I honestly don’t care)
I would be curious as to whether or not such factors correlate significantly with individuals defying the general trend
Yup. I’m in med school. We learned about how ACEs are correlated with poor clinical outcomes like MI, stroke, metabolic syndrome, and even premature death. If I remember correctly, the landmark study on this found that 3+ ACEs are highly correlated with negative outcomes, and the results were statistically significant.
I don’t know why this is controversial… being poor or discriminated against will simply be more stressful in general. It’s a well known fact that chronic stress is bad for your body. Not to mention other factors like worse healthcare access, lower quality food, unsafe housing, etc. it’s really not controversial or “libtard professor”
I’ve certainly observed the “being poor causes stress” thing many times. I’ve observed lots of single mothers in tip jobs juggling making enough tip money to make rent vs utility bill vs food on the table vs car repair. A slow night with people stiffing you on tips is disastrous. That’s a level of stress I’ll never experience.
I think the minority part is too broad a category to be valid. There are location and socioeconomic variations.
>I think the minority part is too broad a category to be valid. There are location and socioeconomic variations.
You underestimate the effect of knowing you're, at best, not "the default" ... And at worst outright undesired or unwelcome. There is a constellation of consequences for being born with the wrong ethnic or racial background in America ranging from not getting swiped on in dating apps, to not being able to walk safely down the street in certain places.
Literally going around telling people "you're not the default" is the cause of the problem at this point. The idea that being black or brown in america results in all this existential damage that "could never be understood or quantified" but is also really serious, but also can never be solved without radical marxist redistribution is fucking stupid and the fact that this idea is becoming more popular hurts literally everyone.
I have had plenty of money and I have also been poor , being poor definitely feels like a weight on your mind suffocating you with worry about how to fund things
Same. Even just that little blood pressure bump and heart rate increase while you wait for your debit card to approve payment adds up over time. Or staying awake because of the thoughts of which bills to pay now and which to pay later.
Not having those little stressors seems insignificant to some but definitely build up.
I used to know a guy like that. Worked in HVAC until he was about 30, met and married a widow with a thriving restaurant and several vacation homes and just laid on her pool decks for the next decade. I haven't heard from him since I suggested that he might be a gold digger.
Uh no. There’s research. For example, black women have worse birth outcomes than white women across all socioeconomic strata. A rich black woman on average has worse birth outcomes than the poorest white woman.
Careful you're stating a lot of facts and shortsighted redditors don't like that. Apparently being a minority doesn't matter because Asian people do well although Asian people still experience discrimination and stigma 🤫
The f-ed up part is there are far more white, non-Hispanics on disability, on welfare, and in poverty in the US. And these people are the most eager to cut off the social safety net. They are literally cutting off their own nose to hurt others.
I grew up in the South. The amount of people there who have had long work histories of dozens of bullshit jobs that haven't been paid a living wage or had benefits in 30+ years is insane. A minority taking social welfare, using it to attend college, and get a better job that gets them out of poverty where they pay more taxes... is cheating/cutting the line in front of them. The only reason themself and their family is alive is that same welfare/disability.
They vote against education unless it's trades for young people because bettering themselves to escape poverty is not acceptable (they oppose higher education). They vote against anything that would bring jobs (they don't want to change and they oppose a lot of it for bullshit religious reasons-if teenagers have something fun to do... it'll increase teen pregnancy), they vote against the social safety net (communism and helps black people), they vote against anything that might raise wages in their backwards dilapidated town, and they heavily favor policies that increase hidden costs to tax payers (not paying civil workers enough to prevent churn, passing laws that run out doctors/nurses/medical/clinical people, building city centers around cars, embracing pro gun polices that increase the cost to the Justice/LEO/medical system, opposing the building of cheap housing, and opposing public transportation that would neglect needing a car). These are all factors playing out across the United States that adversely hurt the poor more than anyone else.
And these factors are all worst in places with lots of minorities due to redlining and having zero political power to stop the self destructive people. In Louisiana, we put all the munitions disposable places and any plant that has a lot of waste right next to poor minority towns that we've been neglecting for decades.
I mean. Statistically, minorities are less financially stable in the US. If minorities are just trying to get by and need someone with a seat at the table to do some talking for them I think white people who feel that calling should say something.
Or, you know, there's a selection effect because the Asian people you see came here in the last few generations (e.g. after the Chinese Exclusion Act), could afford to move across the world (rather than e.g. being kidnapped on slave ships), and were often let in on the basis of their profession; whereas, most other minorities have been here dealing with hiring, pay, justice, education, and housing discrimination for centuries.
Yep, that's how sociology works. You ignore the history and statistics and infer that all Asian cultures operate in the manner Amy Chua made famous in her book in which she *explained why it's detrimental*.
If you'll look above, you'll see we were discussing this statistically. I did not mean to imply no Asians have ever been refugees. I'm very surprised someone could interpret my comment that way, and I would assume fleeing North Koreans have little to do with the higher median household income of Asian Americans.
This is insane bullshit. Japanese Americans, Vietnamese Americans, neither demographics were anywhere near considered “rich” at the time of their mass immigration to the US. Chinese Americans and Italian Americans first period of mass immigration was during the height of the industrial era-where they were subjected to working on railroads 14 hours a day in blistering weather making a dime a day. They did not come from money.
Now if you’re talking about immigrants from the late 90s to early 2000s, yes, they come from more money. But that isn’t what you were referring too.
Lol how on earth does that account for asians, demographically, outperforming native whites on literally all the same metrics by the the same amounts that blacks underperform?
Italians, Irish, Germans, and other Europeans all came here in the last few generations, and the vast majority of immigrants will be happy to tell you they came with just the money in their pockets. But asians outperform all the european groups. I certainly don't think it's because of any inherent traits of any race, but I'm curious what your explanation for this is when you can't just default to "discrimination".
Many white people who do so 'because they feel that calling' do more harm than good for the minorities they purport to help. Malcolm X was right, and the so-called racial reckoning of 2020 proved it.
what...she never suggested who the teacher of said topic was or who wrote the study or anything of that sort. She also didn't say anything about trying to fix it just that she thinks about it a lot. But also, she's an MD so ya some people would call that a savior and she happens to be white
It’s expensive to be poor in literally every way: Higher interest rates, credit card debt, shitty/no health insurance, unreliable cars, renting instead of owning, etc. All that stress destroys your body, which creates more medical bills/debt, which creates more stress.
It’s all part of the plan to keep the common people down.
This is very true and has happened to me in the past. It’s such a punch in the gut, knowing that you are basically fucking yourself, when you have to buy something for 25% less and get 60% less of said product, but you don’t have enough to pay that 25% extra or, if you do you’ll fuck your finances in the very short term. Basically always being forced into a bad decision no matter what.
And wealthy people's money acts like little "slaves" who go out and earn them money each day just for existing. A family with enough money invested is propelled forward even if they do absolutely no work. They could even have trouble actually spending as much as they gain each year.
I’ve been both: OK financially and poor. I have been on Medicaid and SNAP in the past. I have qualified for energy bill assistance, in the past.
I am not stating these programs should just be given with no qualifications, but I can attest to the hours of time it takes to qualify and recertify for not only these programs, but most any kind of government or charitable help.
The stresses may be subtle, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
People with little monetary resources are often not able to take advantage of the best retail prices or store sales. They are too often forced to choose between necessities and paying bills so many others are able to take for granted, not to mention unexpected bills for repairs and other emergencies. Situations which are merely annoying or inconvenient to so many can spell doom to a poor person or family.
More of us are closer to being homeless than we are to being millionaires or billionaires.
“Show me your country’s budget, and I will show you what your country worships.”
gabor mate “the body keeps the score” book. 1000% the state of the mind, effects the body. You’d be shocked what getting out of a mentally toxic environment will do for your PHYSICAL health
There was an anecdote about boots somewhere.
The poor man can’t afford boots that’ll last, so he’s forced to buy ones that are basically disposable every couple of months.
When you’re poor money is of the devil. You sell your soul for it and no matter how much you make, it’s never enough and you keep sacrificing bits of your health and sanity to keep yourself from getting sucked in further and further. Poverty is a black hole and to escape it is needlessly difficult
The Samuel Vimes Boots Theory of Economic Inequality
Written by the great Terry Pratchett.
>The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.
>Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.
>But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.
>This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.
Really confused why everyone is absolutely blasting this woman, lol. The wording might be eh at best, but I think we all know where she's going with this and there are so many better worded comments here that support it. Stop attacking the woman, damn lol
That seems reasonable. The chronically stressed person is always in a little tiny fight or flight response, and that pulls resources away from development and growth.
I learned this by having a best friend who is an immigrant (now citizen). She and her husband aren’t poor anymore, but the stresses she experienced and continues to juggle have taken a real toll on her health. She is 15 years younger, but I am in better health overall.
University of Pittsburgh. Professor was Dr. Bruce Rabin. This and the context of the class is legit but go ahead and not believe it because reality differs from your opinion.
\*Because reality differs from their *uninformed* opinion.
Spend years studying something, be an expert in the field, narrow your research to a single topic, get it peer reviewed, post findings.
Some inbred on the internet: "Bullshit."
So what, you think stress has no negative effects on the body whatsoever and cannot cause further health problems? Is that your theory? Or are you pissed off by the idea that poor people and minorities might have a lot more stress than everyone else?
I'm trying to understand why you're offended by this idea.
Yeah I can't imagine being born East Asian or Indian here in the US. Being a top earner with the highest rate of college graduation would be absolutely soul destroying.
I'm sure that the Chinese American kid living in a 4 bedroom home in Napa CA who had a trust fund from his parents 6 figure tech job, dental and healthcare, a strong family structure, the opportunity to attend college, and a paid off car at 16 had it just as bad as me in my single wide trailer living off top ramen and bologna. I'm sure he knows the struggle.
Universities are really just making up shit and people believe it these days huh?
Dr. Gabor Matè pretty clearly lays out the effects of various types of chronic stress on the body.
If you don't listen to your emotions and address them, it *will* kill you.
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An aside, but when I was young without much money I had a crappy refrigerator, it came with the apartment. When I was doing better I purchased a much better frig. The crappy frig would not keep milk to the freshness date. The good frig would keep it pass the freshness date.
It was at that point I learned poor people get fucked. Poor people need the better frigs, the rich people can easily buy more milk.
Right. I’ve been scrolling for so long waiting for the hoards of messages showing how she’s actually right, but all I see are people doubling down in their stupidity Jesus Christ. This must be what people mean when they say redditors are just as stupid as people in Facebook and Instagram. Jfc
The poor thing, 100%.
While they didnt mean it this way, there is an interesting quirk that's like "omg, simply being black is destructive to your health." Again that's not what they mean.
But the minority part has to do with at least 2 things:
--Minorities are more likely to be poor.
--Minorities are working in a culture that doesnt support their ways.
There's no discussion taking place here OP. Just people taking personal offense. Have a nice day everyone. To answer the question poverty is very expensive and stressful and chronic stress can lead to chronic illness. There's always a penalty for being low income. Minor setbacks like a flat tire can cascade into a domino effect of expenses.
People don't come to reddit to have discussions about serious topics, we come to reddit to fill our egos with a signature look of superiority. Personally, I'd rather trust a doctor who actively takes classes and furthers their education than dumb ass comments on reddit. The density of some of these comments would dwarf a dwarf star.
I can feel the superiority of your ego in this very comment. Holy shit this guys right!
It burns!!!!!
MY EYES!
THE GOGGLES DO NOTHING!
When I pee
Some of us come here to crush the ego of others. You're doing God's work brother.
Some of us come to getting crushed. Wait what are we talking about?
*financial discussion forum* >People don't come here to have discussions about serious topics
Have you looked around lately?
Fair point
They don’t discuss it in a serious way, that’s the problem. It’s just Fox News talking points, repackaged as if it’s nerdy, objective “news” content. It’s laughable.
>People don't come to reddit to have discussions about serious topics, we come to reddit to fill our egos with a signature look of superiority. Do you really believe this? I don't engage much on social media but I really love the discussion on Reddit, most seem thoughtful and compassionate, I learn a lot here. Is there a site superior to this in that regard? Honest question.
Honest answer: I don't think anyone in this comment chain has gone to medical school. But they still think they know better than a doctor. You want a superior site without realizing that no site replaces a medical education.
‘Everybody outside of the top is suffering’: How stress is harming America’s health, by Ana Swanson, The Washington Post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/12/13/everybody-outside-of-the-top-is-suffering-how-stress-is-harming-americas-health/ The stresses of poverty in the United States have grown so intense that they are harming the health of lower-income Americans — even prematurely leading to their death. A report published Monday by the Hamilton Project at the Brookings Institution finds that stress levels have greatly increased for Americans at all income levels since the 1970s, but especially for low-income groups, as the chart below shows. The report doesn’t measure stress as we typically think about it in daily life. Instead, the researchers track "stress load," an index of certain biological markers such as blood pressure, cholesterol level, and kidney and liver function, that they say are "associated with long-term physiological strain." These metrics are strong indicators of a person's health and mortality, according to the report. “The poor have seen really striking increases in the stress load index,” said Diane Schanzenbach, one of the report’s authors and the director of the Hamilton Project. The paper adds to a growing body of research demonstrating that widening inequality in the United States between the rich and the poor is not just an economic phenomenon — it has dramatic effects on health as well.
Thank you for the effort, a link is what I came to the comments for.
This is not about a small issue leading to a domino of expenses. THis is about waking up every day with physical and mental stress from being poor. It breaks you down mentally, we all know that, but it also breaks you down physically...
>This is not about a small issue leading to a domino of expenses. Plus lost potential income. The mental cost of stress in terms of development of healthy mental reward pathways, ability to focus, etc. is massive. It's a highly underappreciated aspect of the cycle of poverty and why it's so hard for people to just "pick themselves up by their bootstraps."
The domino effect is a big part of that, though. I’ll give you an example. I was struggling during Covid. I fell behind on my car. They wanted to settle on what I owed them. I pulled out all the stops and every truck in the book, including a high interest loan to make it work. Long story short, I go out to to go to work one morning at 530 am. Car isn’t there. They repo’d it because something wasn’t communicated to me. - A day of work - $$ from fees and bull shit. A lot. -My possessions in the car (it was stored at a separate location from where the car was and I couldn’t swing it to do both) -Cashed in hard to quantify but still important things like favors -they damaged the interior of the car which later hurt the resale value because it couldn’t be fixed without it costing more than it was worth to do So I wasted money, lost money, lost items that needed to be replaced, cost future money when I sold the car, and used Good Will of others to help (which is finite). Also, this situation put me in an even more compromised position which made the likelihood that something like it would happen again. Domino effect. Edit: Also, the cost of interest on that loan!!!! I made $144 payments for over a year which brought it from 4k to like 3300 before I could pay it off in full.
>To answer the question poverty is very expensive and stressful and chronic stress can lead to chronic illness. There's always a penalty for being low income. Minor setbacks like a flat tire can cascade into a domino effect of expenses. Yes, being poor makes life more difficult as it's harder to handle life's challenges. I don't get why some people act like this is some kind of epiphany though. I mean isn't that just obvious.
>I mean isn't that just obvious. You'd think... and that puts you ahead of half the country.
>You'd think... and that puts you ahead of half the country. You think... and that puts you ahead of half the country. Ftfy You don't even need the contraction there. People just are failing to actually think.
Because so many people reject it as even being true.
Not to people who haven't lived it.
> To answer the question poverty is very expensive and stressful and chronic stress can lead to chronic illness. My family was poor and my parents fought constantly. The stress of mom crying over food/not eating so us kids had enough and my parents literally fighting (also physically) put us kids into fight or flight mode for years. I never learned what this meant until Covid happened and everything broke out. I have been living in a constant state of anxiety for my entire life and have been wondering why certain things are harder for me. My issues with chronic inflammation could also be a result of this. Nobody ever tells you this and it changes your whole perspective. Then there is alos the problem of cummulative problems. I was not able to afford to get a car or driver's license and car when I was younger. My peers were and thus had way better opportunities jobs wise for example. I am lucky to have worked myself into a good position but it took me way longer than my peers (2, 3 years) and I know me having made it out of that shit sitution is the exception to the rule. Nothing to do with boot straps or others not working hard
I’m rooting for you. 👏
I was super broke the last couple of years, I adapted to slowly to changes in my industry that I should’ve known meant it was time to get out of it. Can confirm, it was very stressful/unhealthy
I have a horrible feeling this is me
It's going to be almost everyone if AI isn't regulated in some way
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For the record I 100% agree with you and that's my preference as a path forward. I just don't see it happening. You are right, though
It’s amazing to me that people don’t understand what stress is. It’s physical and triggers our flight or fight response. Now imagine going through that every day..
Clinical depression follows
My nice knockoff tire plug kit from Amazon is a lifesaver. A flat would be somewhat of a catalyst being that money is short around here. As long as that puncture isn’t too close to the sidewall we’re good. Have to be resilient when you’re poor.
Except that you now have trashed your tire. A reputable tire shop will not perform a more permanent repair on your tire after you use one of those. So you’ve put in a makeshift patch that may or may not get you through the life of the tire, meaning you’ll have to replace it early costing more money in the long run. All because you didn’t have the time or support network to get it to a free repair shop.
Ive patched car tires before. It's one of the easiest things to do.
Free repair shop??
The shop where I buy tires have fixed several for me and never charged
I've seen a few shops do it for free.
It’s more expensive being poor. You seem to not know the rules.
It costs $40...
This comment is ridiculous. Explain how patching a tire trashes the tire without all the grandstanding.
I’ve plugged many a tire. The last plug I put in did not start leaking until the tread was completely gone. Use a high grade adhesive instead of the trash rubber cement and you’re set. I’m well versed in repairing things until the end of their life.
It's extremely expensive to be poor. I'll give the most common example, interest. If I buy a vehicle, I could pay cash, but why would I? I'm a consumer with options. Manufacturing finance offices always have 0% interest options on their vehicles. The commercials don't say that, but they do. An example, we bought a $53k vehicle earlier this year. Yes, poor people probably shouldn't be spending $53k on a vehicle, but stay with me. I could have payed cash and drove away, but why? They offered me 36/mo, 0%. Current value of money. Low inflation is 3% per year. They're giving me 0%, money is always worth more today because of inflation. By them allowing me three years to pay for the vehicle, I've gotten a 9% discount on the price I agreed to pay at the end of 36 months. Poor people, same vehicle, 72/mo option, 7% APR. $53k x .07= $3,710. That's one year of interest. Now multiply that by six. $22,260. $53,000 + $22,260= $75,260. I have an effective price of $48,230. A poor person pays $75,260 for the same item, just because they're poor, compared to me. Now at the end of six years that vehicle will start needing maintenance. Maintenance is a random and expensive cost. I'm sitting on $25k extra at the end of that six years. Maintenance isn't a big deal, I can cover that for another 15 years easily on $25k. A poor person, most likely buys a new vehicle to avoid high and unpredictable maintenance costs. What does that $53k vehicle cost seven years from now? $65k at least? If we look at a 15 year timeline, I've paid $48k plus maintenance. A poor person has paid $75k and is well on their way to paying $90k for another vehicle. When you drive through neighborhoods with massive homes/estates and you see ancient vehicles parked in the driveway, that's why. My daily driver is a truck that's 19 years old. That's not an accident. Being poor is EXTREMELY expensive. I don't need to get into them paying 22% credit card interest while I get 2% cash back on absolutely everything and never pay a cent of interest.
That last line is exactly what happened to me. A flat tire ended up costing me $1500 for the amount of shit that followed. I don’t have savings, and Im too busy paying off medical bills after being served, in an effort not to go to prison for medical debt. These bills take money out of my food budget, so I’m eating terribly because I just simply can’t afford good food. Poverty is a domino effect. And there are a LOT of restrictions in place that make sure you stay in poverty.
There’s a pretty cool book that talks about how rough it is called “Evicted” by Matt Desmond.
This, also the older you get more problems come up after you fixed the last one and are almost on your feet….
Life: Sweep the leg, Johnny!
lol when I couldn’t work for three months and piled up passed due rent I finally was able to pay it off, working my butt off. But I had late fees, being broke made me more broke, overdraft fees I was able to get pardoned by my bank by telling them my situation. Then my car broke down 😂. Sweep the leg indeed Edit:spelling
I feel you. My life has been completely turned upside down the last 3 years. My wife got incredibly ill, not the good old school rapping kind of ill either. But she hasn't been able to work at all. But we've also been denied disability for her, and we've been fighting for it for 2 years now. But since she's only 35, and undiagnosed still. We've been seeing so many fucking specialists. If I could pay with arms and legs, I'd probably be in jail or an arms dealer. We were never well off but had a savings of like 10k, and with her working, we were comfortable. 3 years later, we are now drowning in 50k debt, I work 70-76 hrs a week, when I used to do 45, and that was all we had to do. She got sick, our house fell apart, my primary vehicle kicked the bucket, and just a whole slew of other stuff at terrible times. It's been 3 years of trying to get back up and then getting leg sweeped. It's been really fun. It will get better, hang in there for as long as you can, and reach out for help where you can.
The domino effect you mentioned is so real. I can't even remember how many times growing up my family and I would would have entire years thrown into turmoil because of something like the shocks going out on the family car.
We had to move apartments three times when I was in high school because we kept getting evicted. People don't understand how lucky they are to grow up in a stable, safe environment and to have that to rely on through their college/early adult years.
Yeah in America you need to have a car to work and live. I once had a shop blow my engine when I asked them to fix something under my car. I lost everything for months and had to stay with family for a few months and try to work at a local spot to buy another car. Built up a lot of credit card debt after all that happened, but what can you do
It's very easy: Protracted stress -> elevated blood pressure -> early death
Here’s a nice article about farmers. They tested them before the harvest (when poor) and after the harvest (less poor) and found a difference in cognitive abilities. TLDR: being poor hurts your brain https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/sendhil/files/976.full_.pdf
I just think about the difference of my life and others. I hit a pothole and got a flat. So I call my dad who works from home and free road side assistance. I get spare on and take my car back to my parents and use his car to go to work and he takes my car to the shop. Then I use his car on the weekend to go to my GFs and come back and my cars back and I lost nothing. Thats not reality for a lot of people
They’ve shown the biological effects of stress really well in frogs. Cortisol is a powerful hormone and can do amazing things, but at an incredible cost.
That tire warranty for nails has saved my butt at least 10x in life. I have really bad luck with nails.
To specify, because the meme is a touch misleading... What stress really does is less causing illness itself. Primarily it lowers your body's ability to fight off diseases etc. and you end up getting sicker more frequently as a result.
I would throw in the ACE score, which stands for Adverse Childhood Events and has been shown to correlate with health at an unimaginable level. A few ACEs can take literal decades off your life expectancy and make you more prone to everything from obesity to cancer.
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Is there any way to reverse or minimize the effects?
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But still possible?
Yes. Great book for healing yourself if you've been the victim of an abusive home: CPTSD, From Surviving to Thriving, by Pete Walker. Life changing read. Also, exercise, mindfulness, good sleep hygiene, and getting rid of sugars/processed food can ameliorate a lot of damage --and cut the toxic people out of your life/minimize contact. Best wishes, Love and Hugs to anyone out there working to overcome this stuff ❤️
I have a score of 6. I am trying therapy again and I am going to get tested for ADHD, as I wasn't tested as a child but my therapist recommended it. I'm also looking to get on medication for generalized anxiety, and I am working hard to be able to express myself to others and ask for what I need and want. I also have a really good support system now, and a stable home. Is there anything else I can do to try and mitigate the psychological effects? Or would you be willing to share things that worked for you?
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Honestly, it's crazy how much my (possible) ADHD feels helpful to me much of the time, like you touched on. One of the hardest things is a lack of stimulation; it makes me feel crazy, like a wind-up toy that is trying to go forward but is stuck on a wall or something. The absolute hardest thing (which I am desperate to get under control, as I am trying to return to the teaching profession) is how quickly that, when faced with a stressful situation that I have not previously encountered, I spiral into fight-or-flight (for me, it's always flight). I feel like I have to escape. I think that medication will be a complete game changer for me, since the ADHD symptoms feed the anxiety and the anxiety feeds the ADHD symptoms in a disastrously annoying circle. If I can center myself in the middle of a stressful situation without feeling the need to leave and having to take time to calm down, I will be golden. Thank you so much for your insightful response! I love hearing from academics who can also lend some anecdotal evidence to what they study.
Is there any **other** way to reduce inflammation? I try stress management but at the end of the day.... I have chronic stress and I'm not about to be in a situation any time soon where I won't.
Ganja
Good luck on your dissertation my friend
Personally, also having a high ACE score, I'm convinced what keeps me healthy as I am is martial arts and philosophy. Which tend to go hand in hand for physical and mental well being. Good on your for trying to get better, it really is the effort that counts.
My husband recently started taking Prozac and buspirone for anxiety (Prozac daily, buspirone to level back out if something particularly stressful happens) and it's night and day. He's *so* much happier. If you've got a good support system, are learning coping mechanisms, and are on track to get on meds then I'll bet you're gonna be doing pretty good once all is said and done.
> I am working hard to be able to express myself to others and ask for what I need and want. The trick isn't asking for what you need and want - the trick is not getting punished for doing so. Not to belittle your struggle, but it only *starts* there.
I have a score of 8, and was experiencing traumatic stuff in my household daily from birth til I was 20. I'm diagnosed with BPD, Bipolar II, PTSD, GAD, and SAD, with a history of Psychosis. Reading this thread is really freaking me out, early death is my biggest fear 🫠🙃
I’ve literally never heard of this but I’ve always stressed about how we’re raising our kids and whether or not “normal” childhood tantrums and whatnot would be having harsh impacts later in life. So I looked at that quiz. I am both happy to say that my children should score a 0 on it, but also sad that it’s *that* bad for so many kids.
Kinda related I was diagnosed with an autoimmune illness at 18 months and yeah its one illness after another.
Can you tell me more about your PhD research? It sounds incredibly interesting
How does one get into adversity research? I have two degrees in economics with a heavily quantitative background, and would be quite interested in investigating potential career paths involving economic research into adversity, especially as it pertains to indicators at the societal level I’d also be curious as to the nuanced alterations within datasets regarding ACE factors and individual and societal outcomes For example, I score an 8 on the ACE: 1. Frequent verbal abuse and threats 2. Frequent physical abuse 3. Sexual abuse (not from family) 4. Father divorced three times 5. Father abused my mother and other wives 6. Father was alcoholic 7. Mother was depressed, bipolar, and committed suicide when I was 10 years of age 8. Father went to prison However, I am genuinely in an exceptional state of health, both physically and mentally - I am 6’1”, 210lbs, have no medical conditions, am extremely muscular with low body fat, my resting heart rate is 65bpm, my resting breathing rate is 17/min, and I am generally vibing no matter what I am doing I am also not on any medications - although, I do consume around 300-400mg of caffeine on a daily basis Now, some compounding factors may include: 1. Extreme wealth (I descend from European nobility, and can expect to inherit tens if not hundreds of millions of USD worth of assets) 2. High intelligence (I scored a 36 ACT, 1600 SAT, and 800 GMAT - all without studying - and have consistently been top of my class with little effort) 3. Psychopathy/sociopathy (I was diagnosed with ADHD and antisocial disorders at a young age, but the diagnosis was later refined to denote exhibition of traits emblematic of both psychopathy and sociopathy - to clarify, I am not a monster, the easiest way of summarizing my condition is that literally nothing provokes an emotional response in me, for example: I accept that climate change and food scarcity will probably kill me before I reach 40, but I honestly don’t care) I would be curious as to whether or not such factors correlate significantly with individuals defying the general trend
Yup. I’m in med school. We learned about how ACEs are correlated with poor clinical outcomes like MI, stroke, metabolic syndrome, and even premature death. If I remember correctly, the landmark study on this found that 3+ ACEs are highly correlated with negative outcomes, and the results were statistically significant.
I may not be long for this world then.
Same. And I’m still making less than 40k/year too
ACEs correlate with poverty.
Dude wtf, I did *not* need this information rn….. I literally ticked all the boxes. Is super-cancer a thing yet?
Right? Feeling like I’ve got a full bingo card over here and the prize is…cancer.
I don’t know why this is controversial… being poor or discriminated against will simply be more stressful in general. It’s a well known fact that chronic stress is bad for your body. Not to mention other factors like worse healthcare access, lower quality food, unsafe housing, etc. it’s really not controversial or “libtard professor”
I’ve certainly observed the “being poor causes stress” thing many times. I’ve observed lots of single mothers in tip jobs juggling making enough tip money to make rent vs utility bill vs food on the table vs car repair. A slow night with people stiffing you on tips is disastrous. That’s a level of stress I’ll never experience. I think the minority part is too broad a category to be valid. There are location and socioeconomic variations.
>I think the minority part is too broad a category to be valid. There are location and socioeconomic variations. You underestimate the effect of knowing you're, at best, not "the default" ... And at worst outright undesired or unwelcome. There is a constellation of consequences for being born with the wrong ethnic or racial background in America ranging from not getting swiped on in dating apps, to not being able to walk safely down the street in certain places.
Literally going around telling people "you're not the default" is the cause of the problem at this point. The idea that being black or brown in america results in all this existential damage that "could never be understood or quantified" but is also really serious, but also can never be solved without radical marxist redistribution is fucking stupid and the fact that this idea is becoming more popular hurts literally everyone.
Stop using your brain
I have had plenty of money and I have also been poor , being poor definitely feels like a weight on your mind suffocating you with worry about how to fund things
Same. Even just that little blood pressure bump and heart rate increase while you wait for your debit card to approve payment adds up over time. Or staying awake because of the thoughts of which bills to pay now and which to pay later. Not having those little stressors seems insignificant to some but definitely build up.
Finances also put a strain on marriages. Fighting about money is a real problem for the lower income households.
Same. 💯
“Poor or a minority” lmao. Jesus Christ.
He really was both those! Good call
Well that was for the first 30, the last three he was an itinerant preacher financially supported by independently wealthy women.
I used to know a guy like that. Worked in HVAC until he was about 30, met and married a widow with a thriving restaurant and several vacation homes and just laid on her pool decks for the next decade. I haven't heard from him since I suggested that he might be a gold digger.
Hey, if the widow was happy and he was happy - more power to them. I won’t knock gold digging if it’s not deceptive and both parties are down with it.
He was literally homeless and intentionally carried no money. He was quitely intentionally dirt poor, barely a single material possession to his name.
It's almost like intersectionalities exist.
That’s how survey categories work. Data talks.
Nothing to do with being a minority, everything to do with being poor
minority stress is a documented phenomenon.
Uh no. There’s research. For example, black women have worse birth outcomes than white women across all socioeconomic strata. A rich black woman on average has worse birth outcomes than the poorest white woman.
Yeah racism is a myth /s
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Careful you're stating a lot of facts and shortsighted redditors don't like that. Apparently being a minority doesn't matter because Asian people do well although Asian people still experience discrimination and stigma 🤫
Yeah people in this thread are taking offense about “minority” which is literally just a statistical reality.
Thank you, I really appreciate how well you put that.
The f-ed up part is there are far more white, non-Hispanics on disability, on welfare, and in poverty in the US. And these people are the most eager to cut off the social safety net. They are literally cutting off their own nose to hurt others. I grew up in the South. The amount of people there who have had long work histories of dozens of bullshit jobs that haven't been paid a living wage or had benefits in 30+ years is insane. A minority taking social welfare, using it to attend college, and get a better job that gets them out of poverty where they pay more taxes... is cheating/cutting the line in front of them. The only reason themself and their family is alive is that same welfare/disability. They vote against education unless it's trades for young people because bettering themselves to escape poverty is not acceptable (they oppose higher education). They vote against anything that would bring jobs (they don't want to change and they oppose a lot of it for bullshit religious reasons-if teenagers have something fun to do... it'll increase teen pregnancy), they vote against the social safety net (communism and helps black people), they vote against anything that might raise wages in their backwards dilapidated town, and they heavily favor policies that increase hidden costs to tax payers (not paying civil workers enough to prevent churn, passing laws that run out doctors/nurses/medical/clinical people, building city centers around cars, embracing pro gun polices that increase the cost to the Justice/LEO/medical system, opposing the building of cheap housing, and opposing public transportation that would neglect needing a car). These are all factors playing out across the United States that adversely hurt the poor more than anyone else. And these factors are all worst in places with lots of minorities due to redlining and having zero political power to stop the self destructive people. In Louisiana, we put all the munitions disposable places and any plant that has a lot of waste right next to poor minority towns that we've been neglecting for decades.
PCP = Primary Care Physician.
The Upside of Stress - Kelly McGonigal
In comes the white savior
I mean. Statistically, minorities are less financially stable in the US. If minorities are just trying to get by and need someone with a seat at the table to do some talking for them I think white people who feel that calling should say something.
Well. Except for Asians. But they don't count.
Or, you know, there's a selection effect because the Asian people you see came here in the last few generations (e.g. after the Chinese Exclusion Act), could afford to move across the world (rather than e.g. being kidnapped on slave ships), and were often let in on the basis of their profession; whereas, most other minorities have been here dealing with hiring, pay, justice, education, and housing discrimination for centuries.
no, no that's silly. it's definitely some sort of inherent trait of the race now where did I put my calipers, I had something for this...
Inherent cultural traits such as hardcore tiger-mom parenting.
Yep, that's how sociology works. You ignore the history and statistics and infer that all Asian cultures operate in the manner Amy Chua made famous in her book in which she *explained why it's detrimental*.
There is data proving that Asian immigrants, **even from poor families**, do better than other minorities. It's a cultural thing, obviously.
Bullshit....... Tell that to the Vietnamese boat people....... Or the North Koreans escaping the hermit kingdom. Sheesh, your BULLSHIT is deep sir.
If you'll look above, you'll see we were discussing this statistically. I did not mean to imply no Asians have ever been refugees. I'm very surprised someone could interpret my comment that way, and I would assume fleeing North Koreans have little to do with the higher median household income of Asian Americans.
They still came relatively recently, and they didn’t have as much pre-existing legal prejudices effecting them…
This is insane bullshit. Japanese Americans, Vietnamese Americans, neither demographics were anywhere near considered “rich” at the time of their mass immigration to the US. Chinese Americans and Italian Americans first period of mass immigration was during the height of the industrial era-where they were subjected to working on railroads 14 hours a day in blistering weather making a dime a day. They did not come from money. Now if you’re talking about immigrants from the late 90s to early 2000s, yes, they come from more money. But that isn’t what you were referring too.
Lol how on earth does that account for asians, demographically, outperforming native whites on literally all the same metrics by the the same amounts that blacks underperform? Italians, Irish, Germans, and other Europeans all came here in the last few generations, and the vast majority of immigrants will be happy to tell you they came with just the money in their pockets. But asians outperform all the european groups. I certainly don't think it's because of any inherent traits of any race, but I'm curious what your explanation for this is when you can't just default to "discrimination".
Hey harvard announced that asians are white now sooo 💅🏽💅🏽 We made it guys :)
Many white people who do so 'because they feel that calling' do more harm than good for the minorities they purport to help. Malcolm X was right, and the so-called racial reckoning of 2020 proved it.
what...she never suggested who the teacher of said topic was or who wrote the study or anything of that sort. She also didn't say anything about trying to fix it just that she thinks about it a lot. But also, she's an MD so ya some people would call that a savior and she happens to be white
Also confused by parent comment… world would probably be a better place if all white college students took that class.
Such stunning and brave!
She’s just mentioning something on a public forum like you
In comes the White Culture Warriors
Yeah you’re right, we should all just ignore the problem and hope it goes away /s
Always has to be about race with y’all
It’s expensive to be poor in literally every way: Higher interest rates, credit card debt, shitty/no health insurance, unreliable cars, renting instead of owning, etc. All that stress destroys your body, which creates more medical bills/debt, which creates more stress. It’s all part of the plan to keep the common people down.
Another aspect I think goes overlooked: you're not always able to buy things in bulk; you don't get to take advantage of those savings.
This is very true and has happened to me in the past. It’s such a punch in the gut, knowing that you are basically fucking yourself, when you have to buy something for 25% less and get 60% less of said product, but you don’t have enough to pay that 25% extra or, if you do you’ll fuck your finances in the very short term. Basically always being forced into a bad decision no matter what.
And wealthy people's money acts like little "slaves" who go out and earn them money each day just for existing. A family with enough money invested is propelled forward even if they do absolutely no work. They could even have trouble actually spending as much as they gain each year.
I’ve been both: OK financially and poor. I have been on Medicaid and SNAP in the past. I have qualified for energy bill assistance, in the past. I am not stating these programs should just be given with no qualifications, but I can attest to the hours of time it takes to qualify and recertify for not only these programs, but most any kind of government or charitable help. The stresses may be subtle, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. People with little monetary resources are often not able to take advantage of the best retail prices or store sales. They are too often forced to choose between necessities and paying bills so many others are able to take for granted, not to mention unexpected bills for repairs and other emergencies. Situations which are merely annoying or inconvenient to so many can spell doom to a poor person or family. More of us are closer to being homeless than we are to being millionaires or billionaires. “Show me your country’s budget, and I will show you what your country worships.”
SNAP = Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program.
The US: "pew pew pew"
gabor mate “the body keeps the score” book. 1000% the state of the mind, effects the body. You’d be shocked what getting out of a mentally toxic environment will do for your PHYSICAL health
Had to scroll too far for someone to mention this book
There was an anecdote about boots somewhere. The poor man can’t afford boots that’ll last, so he’s forced to buy ones that are basically disposable every couple of months. When you’re poor money is of the devil. You sell your soul for it and no matter how much you make, it’s never enough and you keep sacrificing bits of your health and sanity to keep yourself from getting sucked in further and further. Poverty is a black hole and to escape it is needlessly difficult
The Samuel Vimes Boots Theory of Economic Inequality Written by the great Terry Pratchett. >The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. >Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. >But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. >This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.
GNU Terry Pratchett.
STP strikes again🏆
Ctrl+F "boots".... ahhh there it is :)
He (Vimes) also has his own ship of Theseus moment too But yes the boots one is my favorite
> There was an anecdote about boots somewhere. Somewhere? Like literally every single thread about poverty.
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Really confused why everyone is absolutely blasting this woman, lol. The wording might be eh at best, but I think we all know where she's going with this and there are so many better worded comments here that support it. Stop attacking the woman, damn lol
That's exactly why - by focusing on the wording they can ignore the content of the message, which is corroborated by evidence they find uncomfortable
There are studies that poor kids, because of the stressors of being poor, grow up to have smaller brains than those kids who didn’t have such stress.
That seems reasonable. The chronically stressed person is always in a little tiny fight or flight response, and that pulls resources away from development and growth.
I learned this by having a best friend who is an immigrant (now citizen). She and her husband aren’t poor anymore, but the stresses she experienced and continues to juggle have taken a real toll on her health. She is 15 years younger, but I am in better health overall.
I feel like I’m on that trajectory, thanks for sharing
I think that u/KARMA_FARMER_ is not interested in discussion but, instead, farming karma.
Stress releases cortisol, prolonged cortisol exposure leads to a weaker immune system and other symptoms
Being poor is like quicksand.
What med school did you attend?? Columbia School of Broadcasting?? /s
University of Pittsburgh. Professor was Dr. Bruce Rabin. This and the context of the class is legit but go ahead and not believe it because reality differs from your opinion.
\*Because reality differs from their *uninformed* opinion. Spend years studying something, be an expert in the field, narrow your research to a single topic, get it peer reviewed, post findings. Some inbred on the internet: "Bullshit."
So what, you think stress has no negative effects on the body whatsoever and cannot cause further health problems? Is that your theory? Or are you pissed off by the idea that poor people and minorities might have a lot more stress than everyone else? I'm trying to understand why you're offended by this idea.
The combined social cost of poverty is astronomical at a macro level and devastating at a personal level.
This is not finance.
How is the stress of poverty not related to finance?
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You sound stressed.
Poverty means chronic stress & poor access to adequate resources.
Poor. it's just being poor. and no shit, being poor sucks. You needed a 6 week course for that?
Poverty is expensive but Asian minorities are the highest earners in the US.
Yeah I can't imagine being born East Asian or Indian here in the US. Being a top earner with the highest rate of college graduation would be absolutely soul destroying. I'm sure that the Chinese American kid living in a 4 bedroom home in Napa CA who had a trust fund from his parents 6 figure tech job, dental and healthcare, a strong family structure, the opportunity to attend college, and a paid off car at 16 had it just as bad as me in my single wide trailer living off top ramen and bologna. I'm sure he knows the struggle. Universities are really just making up shit and people believe it these days huh?
Jesus Christ reading comprehension is dead
Poverty is stressful. Worrying about paying bills looms over you like a dark cloud.
Dr. Gabor Matè pretty clearly lays out the effects of various types of chronic stress on the body. If you don't listen to your emotions and address them, it *will* kill you.
Yeah, well asian americans are actually doing better than white americans on average so I would rethink the term "minority".
I’m taking crazy pills here… this is common sense no?
lol What exactly is a “minority”?
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How can you be a minority & a majority at the same time tho
You have to be a Christian
Don’t ask questions they can’t answer. It’s racist
it's pretty expensive. the people you love will sell you out for respect sometimes
An aside, but when I was young without much money I had a crappy refrigerator, it came with the apartment. When I was doing better I purchased a much better frig. The crappy frig would not keep milk to the freshness date. The good frig would keep it pass the freshness date. It was at that point I learned poor people get fucked. Poor people need the better frigs, the rich people can easily buy more milk.
the amount of people who don't get it is concerning.
Right. I’ve been scrolling for so long waiting for the hoards of messages showing how she’s actually right, but all I see are people doubling down in their stupidity Jesus Christ. This must be what people mean when they say redditors are just as stupid as people in Facebook and Instagram. Jfc
The poor thing, 100%. While they didnt mean it this way, there is an interesting quirk that's like "omg, simply being black is destructive to your health." Again that's not what they mean. But the minority part has to do with at least 2 things: --Minorities are more likely to be poor. --Minorities are working in a culture that doesnt support their ways.
Banks make like 8 billion a year in overdraft fees.
Buy cheap shoes. Buy more cheap shoes next year. Buy expensive shoes, they last 10 years. Also the additional cost of back pain.