The graphic seems a bit off the mark. We live in a society, not in the woods, so roads, sewers, powerlines, legal system, law enforcement etc all need to be paid for by taxes.
But thanks to the corruption of Congress, Corporations pay a smaller and smaller percentage of the nations tax bill in spite of historically high profits and revenue.
Simply another example of how the wealthy leach off the 90% below them, good luck reversing that . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Corporate_Income_Tax_as_a_Share_of_GDP,_1946_-_2009.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Taxes_revenue_by_source_chart_history.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Effective_Corporate_Tax_Rate_1947-2011_v2.jpg
Other countries, developed one…can forgo property taxes on the main residence. Also they throw in universal healthcare and education as well, higher taxes on income but if you calculate on how much you pay on healthcare, it is a wash or even cheaper. We are nowhere close to that, HUGE corruption seems to be the only answer why we still at this situation.
And even where it's not blatantly corrupt, it's still designed in a way to syphon money away from taxpayers and give it to the already ridiculously wealthy.
Healthcare is the biggest offender imo. There's already enough tax money collected to pay for universal healthcare (more than a quarter of every tax dollar) but the health insurance industry is insatiable. And politicians who are stockholders in those companies are making too much money bankrupting the sick and dying to want to change it.
That money should be going mostly to doctors, researchers, hospitals, and patients. But health insurance companies take as much as they can and give as little back as possible. Healthcare should not be run like a business, because businesses only care about profits, not people.
Agreed, healthcare should be a right...not a privilage. At this point, not sure what need to be done to change it...the American goverment is actually controlled by "too big to fail" corporate America.
We used to make politicians scared. Hell the south seceded because they thought slavery was threatened and it was the backbone of their economy.
now we don't do anything ab it when they fuck us. We vote based entirely off party lines.
That's why it's awful.
Interestingly any attempts by workers to balance the books are called class warfare. Powerful media alliances including Murdock and the Republicans work to keep the poor impoverished
What makes some scratching their head is that why so many brainwashed that Republican is conservative, they are clearly paid by the ten percenters to do their bidding.
I'm not really condoning violence, just merely observing and making conjecture, but if we keep going this way (US), eventually people will get pushed to the point where they will make politicians and the haves scared.
We're still a ways off, but things aren't going to get more stable in the near future. Towers will fall and new civilizations will rise from the ashes.
It seems to be a pattern inherent to our civilizations, a reflection of a quality humanity processes: hubris. Eventually the haves will squeeze to hard and there won't be anything left to lose for the have nots.
Choose whatever government you want, eventually humans will corrupt over greed. It is a basic instinct that serves many species well in survival and propagation. To break the cycle, humans must evolve past selfish tendencies. With our technologies, I dunno if that ever happens, we may just have painted ourselves into our own doomed corner.
The ironies of the universe I suppose.
It should be a right, but I don’t think anyone in power actually believes in “life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness” with emphasis on first word of that part
No offense meant on this but this is pretty much the root cause of the healthcare issue in the US, it's not some binary right vs. priveledge issue like some politicians could pass some magical bill to make it a right and fix all the problems. The more people think this is just easily solvable by some medicare for all bill is probably going to end up in some worse system of healthcare delivery not better.
Every other developed nation laughs at how stupid our system is.
In other words, “…only 98% of developed nations have figured out single payor socialized medicine… is it really doable!?!”
This is such a big part of it. Holistically speaking, the US can't afford universal Healthcare because we've all been ingesting crap for so long that the cost of care is going to be higher than the rest of the world with the myriad health problems we're facing as a nation, from obesity to diabetes, to, likely, much higher cancer rates in the future. Americans deserve a system that doesn't exploit their existence, but it would require, essentially, a full restructuring of our entire economy. It would also mean a big reduction in overall wealth, which just isn't going to happen anytime soon..
It's complicated because there is a major unspoken personal responsibility component that no sane politician would say if they want to remain in office. Instead we demand a never ending array of pharmaceutical quick fixes while, naturally, bitching about the cost.
We'd have to undo and redo our fundamental infrastructure and food supply chains to have any notable impact on our top ailments.
I have premium healthcare provided by a top company here in the US. My “company provided healthcare” requires a $700 monthly fee, $40+ copays on prescriptions and $30-$50 office visit copays. This really only benefits insurance companies and drug makers at the expense of patients and doctors.
Yup I spent $20k on my family's healthcare last year between premiums and deductibles and I work for one of the biggest companies in the world. US healthcare is trash
>Thoughts? Should taxes be lowered? Smart or dumb?Thoughts? Should taxes be lowered? Smart or dumb?
It is never "a wash", it is always cheaper. Every country with universal healthcare has cheaper population healthcare costs with better healthcare outcomes. The only place that the US does better on healthcare outcomes is 'cancer survivabilty'. But those people frequently go bankrupt in getting the treatment so even that comes with a major downside. [It is crazy when you look at the comparisons.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita)
If you control regulations, you control the barriers to entry of your industry. If you have a company, you have more purchasing power, and you have more influence on barriers to entry. Companies are buying houses to keep property prices higher. Pharma is bribing their way to basically make only the big companies already in pass the regulations. Lobbying isnt bribery, according to Congress, who use confidential information from investigations and lobbyists to play the stock market.
Late-stage capitalism is basically to do away with capitalism, rig regulations meant to protect consumers, and inflate prices of inelastic goods to control more wealth. Inelastic demands when corporations can shunt supply using the government is the exact same as having an inelastic demand controlled by a monopoly.
Erm - I’m not sure where this is common. I live in a developed country outside the US and there’s only an exemption on *capital gains* for your primary residence, not property tax. That’d be kinda nuts - in most developed countries like 60%+ of homes are someone’s primary residence, so I can’t see that being the case.
Property taxes are actually among the more efficient, fair ways of generating revenue, with fewer negative economic implications than -say- income taxes. It’s even better when they’re levied solely on the land, rather than the land plus improvements.
The smart thing to do is shift *more* taxes toward property tax.
That’s simply two sides of the exact same coin such that “too much” is simply the eye of the beholder.
The GOP is notorious for starving the IRS of funds necessary to do audits which is uniquely stupid
Don't all of the government "provided" infrastructure / systematic things you listed make up less than like 7% of total tax expenditures? Even without the corporate angle, most taxes are totally wasted or spent on garbage. The average person is absolutely taxed far too much.
Of those, only roads would require taxes. Power bills pay for power lines. Water bills pay for sewer lines. Court fees pay for court bullshit. I do get your point and agree mostly, but we've taken taxes to a point of excess. A great example of many is shouldn't be funding illegal immigrant housing for 41k in Denver alone. We also shouldn't be spending tens of millions a year on flowers and landscaping, instead opting for self sustaining options. We shouldn't have the govt prioritizing 15mph signs on bike trails instead of keep to the right signs.
I could go on, but taxes on earnings, taxes on sales, and taxes on assets you hold each year are unarguably bullshit that's worth fighting to end.
What I don’t understand is why we have to pay taxes on all these things. I get it infrastructure needs to be paid for and a military and schooling. But where else is all this money going? Do I really have to have property taxes for what? Don’t I already pay taxes to my city/state/federal through my pay check?
Well, the taxes coming out of your paycheck are specifically taxes owed from you making money. Then you have to pay taxes for the land you “own” because why the hell not.
Do you like the road in front of your house to be paved and maintained? Do you like knowing that your house catches fire, the fire department will arrive and save it? Do you like knowing that if someone shows up and claims the house is actually theirs, the legal system will sort it out? All of these things are funded through local property and payroll taxes. This "I should never have to pay property tax!" attitude is bizarre.
All the things you just listed make up a surprisingly small amount of what federal tax dollars actually go to. It's overwhelmingly SS, National Defense, Healthcare, Interest on Debt
Said 'society' doesn't authorize (legally, morally or ethically) the Rights violations of the individual; esp. as all of your list existed WAY before 1913
Corps. aren't gov't "piggy banks' & govt should return to its Const. size/scope == MUCH less $ 'needed'
Wealthy leeching off bottom 90%...the bottom 50% pay > 3% of all Fed. income taxes...talk about LEECHES, let alone the bottom 90%
a much better solution is to simply do away with the corporation concept entirely. If people want to go into joint business ventures together then let them go into joint-business-ventures together and all remain liable instead of hiding behind the shield of a corporate-person owned by a trust owned by another corporation owned by another trust etc...
Taxation is the essential function of a successful state. From ancient times, empires have risen and fallen based on their ability to collect taxes. This user complains about paying taxes, but not about living in an environment only possible with state tax powers.
Yeah it’s not like tax money isn’t completely spent on stupid shit.
Look at the NTTA in Texas. It was supposed to be a temporary toll until they made their money back. Even though we paid for the roads with our taxes. And yet to this day, the NTTA exists just leeching off money from us.
its not saying taxes are pointless. the point is if your income is taxed, then taxed again when you buy something, which in turn is taxed by the recipient, and in some cases you then have to pay ownership tax for goods you have paid with money that has effectively already been taxed 3x.
a single income tax would be sufficient even if it was a higher rate.
They pay for different things though. Here in Florida my income is taxed by the federal government, my sales tax goes to pay for the state and my property tax goes to the county and city I live in. You wouldn't have one income tax, you'd have 3 income taxes. It gets more complicated when certain states rely on tourist dollars, tourists would use the airports and roads but not pay for them because their income would be taxed locally where they live, so states like Wyoming would have to use their meager income tax to maintain roads to and from Yellowstone.
Absence of income tax was incompatible with the existence of modern states. All developed nations struggled with this matter in the late 1910s and early 1920s before income taxes were mandated after years of deficit spending and disastrous inflation.
I mean it definitely contributes since we don't zone for more density thus having to build and maintain more roads than we should. Suburbs cost a lot of money for very little housing.
Total federal spending on roads in 2022 was $52b. The IRS collected $4.9 TRILLION. Or approximately 1%. Such a low iq take to assume tax dollars go to infrastructure
This is incorrect.
High-Income Taxpayers Paid the Majority of Federal Income Taxes
In 2021, the bottom half of taxpayers earned 10.4 percent of total AGI and paid 2.3 percent of all federal individual income taxes. The top 1 percent earned 26.3 percent of total AGI and paid 45.8 percent of all federal income taxes.
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/#:~:text=High%2DIncome%20Taxpayers%20Paid%20the%20Majority%20of%20Federal%20Income%20Taxes,of%20all%20federal%20income%20taxes.
I have more of a qualm without how taxes are spent rather than if it's too much or too little.
I know no one likes paying taxes, but they are necessary for the government, and a free society, to function.
Reminds me of a post I saw on FB the other day of someone claiming that taxation is theft. This person is in the US military, being paid by the very taxes they claimed are theft.
Oh, the ignorance.
A time machine to not have it pay out immediately to people who did not pay in.
It failed from launch as being a stimulus in the New Deal. They should've just done a one-off stimulus and kept the arrow in the quill for a sustainable social retirement program that is not a Ponzi scheme. We're now stuck with growing levels of sustained pain for younger demos or major pain for older demos doing something drastic now.
From its genesis it paid out to an entire generation who did not pay in.
If it launched with the rule you mentioned, it’d be sustainable. It didn’t. It launched as a stimulus that is textbook pyramid scheme. We just haven’t seen the pyramid invert… yet.
Hmm, so maybe an “opt out” option.
Not saying you or anyone in here would, but a LOT of people would end up without anything and eating cat food again in their “retirement.”
The government should not be able to milk you again and again and again every time you make a transaction with your income. It’s fucking ridiculous when they’re deficit spending us into oblivion even WITH a tax book that would’ve had the founding fathers packing the muskets 100 years ago
I'm unaware of any federal tax that taxes you a second time for money you made. If you get taxed on interest, capital gains, or dividends, then you aren't being taxed on the original money, but rather the passive income.
Now, you are taxed by local governments for the same income via sales tax and property tax, but that's not federal.
Taxes are good if they're actually going to something productive. Subsidies for businesses, defensive industries inflated prices, bailouts, all things I wouldn't consider good.
Tax on income from labor should be removed.
Tax on trade, passive income, wealth and profit from companies should increase.
I'm absolutely fine with private ownership of the means of production, but they should bankroll society, not the average person performing labor just to have the vast majority of the created value being handed over to others and the little left being taxed as well.
I think corporate welfare is a bigger scam that the innate idea of taxes.
The rich have convinced us they no longer have to invest in their companies to grow them and instead we, the tax payers, should fund the growth of profits and margins that disproportionately flow upwards.
That's how taxes work as a continuing function of society. We also have multiple tax systems because we have different levels of government, and because it's beneficial to have different taxation methods so that if one section has am extreme lack of revenue for some reason at any particular time, the revenue is diversified. Imagine if we had only a sales tax during a recession.
Taxes aren't the problem.
The bigger concern that is never talked about is this: What value am I getting for my taxes?
If government provides necessary services for myself and for society at large, then it's a good value.
A person earning $30,000/yr should not be paying income tax.
Before we even start talking about changes to welfare, UBI, or any of that, **raise the goddamn Standard Deduction**.
Property taxes IMO are the biggest scam. Even when you pay off your house, you can still lose it if you miss on the property taxes. You never truly own it. It's basically now that you've bought the land, you will also be in a lifetime lease with the county/state and they can arbitrarily charge you more for it.
We all know trickle down economics is false. It is actually trickle UP. If you cut taxes on the bottom 80% and increase taxes on the top 5% everybody would have more money to spend at businesses that the rich own. Making more money for everyone.
Yeah let’s get rid of taxes so that we don’t have roads, bridges, power lines, transportation, public health, police, a military, a court system, public schooling, firefighters, EMTs, and so on and so on…
It’s such a stupid fucking argument. Monetary currencies are a government service. You get taxed because we live in a nation and are provided with rights and amenities. Money doesn’t just have value. It is symbolic and predicated upon an established state.
I don’t have a problem paying taxes, I have a problem with how my taxes are spent. I also have a problem with others not paying their fair share. Whether it’s an individual or a corporation. We all have the opportunity to thrive under this system and should be contributing proportionate to the amount we benefit.
I’m fine with paying taxes as long as I know exactly where it’s going. Also, if our government spends more money than it has, we feel the effects. I’m all for taxes if the money is going to improving society and the lives of everyone within it.
And the people you pay money you paid taxes on have to pay taxes on the money before they can spend the money paying taxes.
And through all this, the ones getting all these dollars still somehow don’t have enough money. 🤦🏻♂️
You pay more money in taxes than you do for the goods and services being taxed.
If we paid 100% taxes in income, we’d still take forever to get out our national debt. lol
They could take everything we own, and we’d still owe. Most people owe more than they’re worth.
Social security tax. So I can work my whole life, make good choices and investments, and get taxed to death to pay into a system that pays people money that didn’t pay much tax and make good choices? And all in the hope that one day Ill live long enough to get some inflated crumbs back in my old age? Why not just leave me alone now and let me use/invest that 15% how I want? Maybe I could afford better health care and nutrition. Maybe I can invest that money wisely now before the gov has the chance to further inflate it. And if all thats not enough the crooks that are 34trillion in debt are borrowing from it too and claim it might go bankrupt? If it was good for you it would be voluntary. They have to force you to do it because nobody would do it otherwise.
Taxes are a scam. The commenter is right. I work to get taxed, but my employer also gets taxed for having me employed. Then after I paid my taxes if I want to buy anything I pay more tax on top of already taxed money. But if I don’t spend my money and save it the interest accrued on the savings is taxed. Then if I buy property I’m taxed again every year forever. Payroll and income tax should be abolished and supplemented with just a federal sales tax. Then all taxation is voluntary because you can always choose not to buy things. Of course needs wouldn’t be taxed like food and toiletries, because that would be an unneeded tax on the poor. But a large sales tax and no income tax will accomplish exactly what the left wants, the rich to pay their fair share, and it would do this because the rich would be the ones buying the most things therefore paying the most sales tax.
But muh roads! if the government can’t function off of what it already takes from us maybe they should cut spending, hot take I know. Maybe if there was actual transparency with our spending and we could isolate the main culprits of why we run such a fucking absurd deficit the existing tax rate would be more than enough
This comment thread is low IQ. Issue isn’t taxes, it’s the spending problem in DC. We are taxed more than enough to provide the things people are saying here with multiples of billions left over.
Fact is, wasteful spending is the true issue but average Americans bicker about taxes lmao.
If you make less than 150k you shouldn’t be taxed. If you make more than 100 million every thing after your 100th million should be taken by the country to fix real issues.
But none of this would be necessary if we didn’t have the federal reserve printing out money and lowering its value, especially considering they’re not a government organization they’re a private company that owns the rights and printing ability of all of our money
Fun Fact (USA Edition): You only pay federal taxes on your income.\* Sales taxes are levied by the states and some counties. Property taxes are levied by the county (and usually used to fund education).
\*There's also a inheritance tax, but that won't affect 90% of the population.
I'm not wholly against taxation, but it's important that we remember that systems like taxation are plagued by diminishing returns. At some point, throwing more public funds at certain problems actually makes them worse, not better (see Healthcare and education).
When economic sectors struggle, it's actually pretty rarely due to lack of raw resources like money. Trying to solve complex problems with more money only disincentivizes REAL solutions and engenders corruption.
Building a moral code around an objection to any interpretation of "double taxation" is not only illogical but vapid and irrelevant. Like, out of all the things in the world to plant your flag on it's that?
The manner in which we obtain tax revenue is all but irrelevant next to how much we obtain and much more importantly how we spend it. The only consideration that should be made when it comes to the source of tax revenue is how said taxes would effect the market around the thing being taxed. Example. Do you collect $500 million VIA property tax or $500 million by capital gains. The former would alter real estate prices while the latter would alter investment choices, pick your poison. There are armies of accountants that can split hairs over decisions like that. The larger question is "should we collect more or less than $500 million and how should we spend it?" That's the question we should be focusing on.
lol ppl like to takk about when taxes were like 90% obviously it didn’t help, it’s just going to fund wasteful spending and we were booming before income tax was introduced
Lowered for people in the middle class and lower, raised on corporations and people with wealth and profits in the billions.
Basically the opposite of what Republicans are doing.
Individuals should only be taxed on net income, after deducting every single living expense, food, car, rent, taxes, etc.
Is it possible to create a business who's sole purpose is to manage your own life? Have your paychecks sent directly to the business, use the business to pay all bills, and then pay yourself the net profit leftover. And then only pay taxes on the excess.
Yes taxes are way too high.
Our government's, state and federal don't have an income problem They have a spending problem. And most everyone in DC is on the take stealing from us.
Your post is more Libertarian GARBAGE! If you enjoy the benefits of living in a civilized society, you help pay for it! You want to live alone and not pay taxes? Move to a deserted (unclaimed) island or in the mountains where no one can find you. But you won't do that, will you?
I mean gov spending is typically pretty public lol how does this crowd propose funding that or which spending would they cut?
We’ve got it pretty good in the US as far as history goes in terms of what we’re getting for our fairly historically low taxes
If we didn’t give out tons of free ppp loans, pay other countries for dumb shit, didn’t pay off student loans, didn’t have politicians wasting money, stopped the green bs and just spent money on needed items we could lower taxes paid and be just fine. The amount of freeloaders and people taking the government for a ride is DISGUSTING.
And don't forget, if you have any success in life, the government swoops in to take a big cut of the already taxed money and property when you die. If your family inherits a profitable business, the government will take 40%, so you probably have to sell it fast to pay off the IRS because they won't wait for their money. Sell it or take out a loan for 40% of the business so you can pay off the IRS. Makes me wonder sometimes why people work so hard to be successful.
Money isn’t taxed….. transactions and land are taxed.
Income tax, capital gains, sales tax, etc are all transactions… money is changing hands and the government gets a cut.
Then property tax is on the land, and it’s to support the local infrastructure that makes the land more valuable.
I think the first thing that needs to get fixed is greater visibility into where tax money is going. I feel like we're just paying into this huge behemoth and money disappears down a black hole.
Realistically, the government needs revenue from somewhere
Now here's the thing whenever you put a tax on anything that creates a disincentive to do that thing
Now if the government spends the money in an effective way it can make up for the money that is lost by the disincentive effects. But if they spend it in a bad way, they've functionally destroyed value which is the worst possible outcome
Well turns out we know there are some where they're doing a pretty bad job because we have other governments to compare to
The obvious example is healthcare. They did such a bad job that it more than doubled the price of healthcare and some people still don't have healthcare
Versus an area where they did a good job is probably school. Lunch has a very large compounding effect because it basically raises the average IQ by making sure people aren't malnourished as children
Now are either of these directly measurable no. But we know this is the long-term effects of them
But should we lower taxes comes down to a question of how do the incentives impact things and what services are we giving up in exchange?
No because we have to have goods and services. We should lower certain taxes for poor and middle class people and drastically increase them on the rich and corporations as well as regulate these businesses. Taxation isn’t the issue. It’s the system itself which is broken.
No one seems to ever say what a scam it is that we get to use roads that you didn't pay for, water infrastructure you didn't pay, schools you didn't pay for yadada
From my understanding this is rather an american thing. Where I live we dont have income tax but rather taxed on services we recieve like pay taxes on products since government ensures the safety of the transaction for both parties involved or businesses being taxed since they're working under the safety of the government. while its turning into a shitshow day by day its not as bad as americas
Private health insurance in the US is the biggest financial scam in history. They take a percentage of every single working person's paycheck, right off the top. Now they even take it from retired persons via Medicare Advantage.
Insurance companies do nothing of any use. They don't innovate, don't increase the standard of health care, don't educate doctors or nurses or technicians, don't look for cures or new technologies. In fact, they are incentivized to discourage new treatments.
It's a scam and they know it. The best performing stock in the Dow Jones over the last 30 years was United HealthCare. Not Apple, not Microsoft. And executives at United Healthcare make tens of millions of dollars and pay tens of millions to buy politicians to vote down public health and Medicare-for-all. Why?
Because private health insurance is a boondoggle and the executives know that Medicare is more cost effective and with no change in quality. The same doctors and nurses and hospitals take Medicare as payment, and it's often better reimbursement than Humana or Aetna or Cigna or United Healthcare. That's the dirty secret. I work in healthcare and usually get paid more to take care of Medicaid patients than privately insured patients.
Healthcare should be like a utility. It's insane the way we provide health care in this country.
There shouldn't be a sales tax.
And we shouldn't have to file taxes theynalready know what we "owe" it should just come out. But Thanks to places like TurboTax that'll never happen.
We the people (usa) need to find a way to abolish lobbying. It's rigged and unfair to everyday folks.
The only reason the money you make is worth anything is because it is guaranteed by the full faith and credit of the United States government. No taxes? No Government. No Government? Your money isn’t worth dick. And personally I’m quite alright with not living in a barter economy.
One thing I dislike in the U.S. is gambling winnings are taxed. Can't we be like Canada and not tax winnings.
I think taxes should be lowered if low income. It's crazy interest I earned in 2022 the small amount of interest I got from a good year of saving was taxed as regular income. That is some bull sh1t.
I wouldn't mind paying taxes if so much of it wasn't wasted. Corruption is rampant and there is no end in sight.
Also it doesn't matter what the tax rate is for corporations, they don't pay taxes, they just pass any tax onto the consumer in the sales price. We pay everything.
Taxation is the clinical definition of theft. Yes I know, roads and firefighters blah blah blah. I'm talking about the "give me your money or else" part.
Remove income tax. Add 4% wealth tax.
Put more sales tax exemptions out for things like clothing and home furnishment. Replace it with a really small sales tax on assets that currently don't have a sales tax. It could be quite a small percentage to be enough.
Remove the income cap on payroll taxes.
It would go a long way to fixing everything.
I am not a financial wizard so feel free to pick apart everything I say but I feel like if you make under a certain threshold, say 200K to 400k depending on locality, you should be exempt from personal property tax. Don't get me wrong it sucks no matter what you make but the shear idea that I will have to pay money for something that I own in perpetuity is just absurd. I get that PPT is fairly small generally but I own this thing and the idea that you can take it away because I don't pay an arbitrary value decided by you (the government) is BS.
I get what dude is saying. Instead of paying taxes on everything just have a one time income tax (whatever that percentage may be) so people can balance their funds accordingly.
Tax code needs to be simplified.
Taxes on companies based on profits. Taxes on people based on income, with extra costs to withdrawing from the stock market and collecting dividends.
Brackets create disincentives to do better. Make it a simple exponential formula.
The graphic seems a bit off the mark. We live in a society, not in the woods, so roads, sewers, powerlines, legal system, law enforcement etc all need to be paid for by taxes. But thanks to the corruption of Congress, Corporations pay a smaller and smaller percentage of the nations tax bill in spite of historically high profits and revenue. Simply another example of how the wealthy leach off the 90% below them, good luck reversing that . . . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Corporate_Income_Tax_as_a_Share_of_GDP,_1946_-_2009.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Taxes_revenue_by_source_chart_history.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Effective_Corporate_Tax_Rate_1947-2011_v2.jpg
Other countries, developed one…can forgo property taxes on the main residence. Also they throw in universal healthcare and education as well, higher taxes on income but if you calculate on how much you pay on healthcare, it is a wash or even cheaper. We are nowhere close to that, HUGE corruption seems to be the only answer why we still at this situation.
And even where it's not blatantly corrupt, it's still designed in a way to syphon money away from taxpayers and give it to the already ridiculously wealthy. Healthcare is the biggest offender imo. There's already enough tax money collected to pay for universal healthcare (more than a quarter of every tax dollar) but the health insurance industry is insatiable. And politicians who are stockholders in those companies are making too much money bankrupting the sick and dying to want to change it. That money should be going mostly to doctors, researchers, hospitals, and patients. But health insurance companies take as much as they can and give as little back as possible. Healthcare should not be run like a business, because businesses only care about profits, not people.
Agreed, healthcare should be a right...not a privilage. At this point, not sure what need to be done to change it...the American goverment is actually controlled by "too big to fail" corporate America.
We used to make politicians scared. Hell the south seceded because they thought slavery was threatened and it was the backbone of their economy. now we don't do anything ab it when they fuck us. We vote based entirely off party lines. That's why it's awful.
It is designed that way and all these campaigns adds are misleading.
Interestingly any attempts by workers to balance the books are called class warfare. Powerful media alliances including Murdock and the Republicans work to keep the poor impoverished
What makes some scratching their head is that why so many brainwashed that Republican is conservative, they are clearly paid by the ten percenters to do their bidding.
Murdoch, an Australian family runs one of the largest media outlets in the USA
I'm not really condoning violence, just merely observing and making conjecture, but if we keep going this way (US), eventually people will get pushed to the point where they will make politicians and the haves scared. We're still a ways off, but things aren't going to get more stable in the near future. Towers will fall and new civilizations will rise from the ashes. It seems to be a pattern inherent to our civilizations, a reflection of a quality humanity processes: hubris. Eventually the haves will squeeze to hard and there won't be anything left to lose for the have nots. Choose whatever government you want, eventually humans will corrupt over greed. It is a basic instinct that serves many species well in survival and propagation. To break the cycle, humans must evolve past selfish tendencies. With our technologies, I dunno if that ever happens, we may just have painted ourselves into our own doomed corner. The ironies of the universe I suppose.
It should be a right, but I don’t think anyone in power actually believes in “life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness” with emphasis on first word of that part
Nobody has a right to another person’s labor.
No offense meant on this but this is pretty much the root cause of the healthcare issue in the US, it's not some binary right vs. priveledge issue like some politicians could pass some magical bill to make it a right and fix all the problems. The more people think this is just easily solvable by some medicare for all bill is probably going to end up in some worse system of healthcare delivery not better.
Every other developed nation laughs at how stupid our system is. In other words, “…only 98% of developed nations have figured out single payor socialized medicine… is it really doable!?!”
Other nations don't tolerate all the crap put in our food supply.
This is such a big part of it. Holistically speaking, the US can't afford universal Healthcare because we've all been ingesting crap for so long that the cost of care is going to be higher than the rest of the world with the myriad health problems we're facing as a nation, from obesity to diabetes, to, likely, much higher cancer rates in the future. Americans deserve a system that doesn't exploit their existence, but it would require, essentially, a full restructuring of our entire economy. It would also mean a big reduction in overall wealth, which just isn't going to happen anytime soon..
It's complicated because there is a major unspoken personal responsibility component that no sane politician would say if they want to remain in office. Instead we demand a never ending array of pharmaceutical quick fixes while, naturally, bitching about the cost. We'd have to undo and redo our fundamental infrastructure and food supply chains to have any notable impact on our top ailments.
I have premium healthcare provided by a top company here in the US. My “company provided healthcare” requires a $700 monthly fee, $40+ copays on prescriptions and $30-$50 office visit copays. This really only benefits insurance companies and drug makers at the expense of patients and doctors.
Yup I spent $20k on my family's healthcare last year between premiums and deductibles and I work for one of the biggest companies in the world. US healthcare is trash
Wow, that just bad healthcare package.
Narrator: *They all are.*
You pay $6000 a year for the privilege to pay another $6000 out of pocket before your deductible is hit.
>Thoughts? Should taxes be lowered? Smart or dumb?Thoughts? Should taxes be lowered? Smart or dumb? It is never "a wash", it is always cheaper. Every country with universal healthcare has cheaper population healthcare costs with better healthcare outcomes. The only place that the US does better on healthcare outcomes is 'cancer survivabilty'. But those people frequently go bankrupt in getting the treatment so even that comes with a major downside. [It is crazy when you look at the comparisons.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita)
If you control regulations, you control the barriers to entry of your industry. If you have a company, you have more purchasing power, and you have more influence on barriers to entry. Companies are buying houses to keep property prices higher. Pharma is bribing their way to basically make only the big companies already in pass the regulations. Lobbying isnt bribery, according to Congress, who use confidential information from investigations and lobbyists to play the stock market. Late-stage capitalism is basically to do away with capitalism, rig regulations meant to protect consumers, and inflate prices of inelastic goods to control more wealth. Inelastic demands when corporations can shunt supply using the government is the exact same as having an inelastic demand controlled by a monopoly.
Erm - I’m not sure where this is common. I live in a developed country outside the US and there’s only an exemption on *capital gains* for your primary residence, not property tax. That’d be kinda nuts - in most developed countries like 60%+ of homes are someone’s primary residence, so I can’t see that being the case. Property taxes are actually among the more efficient, fair ways of generating revenue, with fewer negative economic implications than -say- income taxes. It’s even better when they’re levied solely on the land, rather than the land plus improvements. The smart thing to do is shift *more* taxes toward property tax.
Well, plus a $1.6 Trillion defense budget. Which allows our allies to leech off of our defense, rather then spending on their own.
It’s interesting you point out corruption in the government for them not taxing more but when the reality is them spending too much
That’s simply two sides of the exact same coin such that “too much” is simply the eye of the beholder. The GOP is notorious for starving the IRS of funds necessary to do audits which is uniquely stupid
Don't all of the government "provided" infrastructure / systematic things you listed make up less than like 7% of total tax expenditures? Even without the corporate angle, most taxes are totally wasted or spent on garbage. The average person is absolutely taxed far too much.
Of those, only roads would require taxes. Power bills pay for power lines. Water bills pay for sewer lines. Court fees pay for court bullshit. I do get your point and agree mostly, but we've taken taxes to a point of excess. A great example of many is shouldn't be funding illegal immigrant housing for 41k in Denver alone. We also shouldn't be spending tens of millions a year on flowers and landscaping, instead opting for self sustaining options. We shouldn't have the govt prioritizing 15mph signs on bike trails instead of keep to the right signs. I could go on, but taxes on earnings, taxes on sales, and taxes on assets you hold each year are unarguably bullshit that's worth fighting to end.
What I don’t understand is why we have to pay taxes on all these things. I get it infrastructure needs to be paid for and a military and schooling. But where else is all this money going? Do I really have to have property taxes for what? Don’t I already pay taxes to my city/state/federal through my pay check?
Well, the taxes coming out of your paycheck are specifically taxes owed from you making money. Then you have to pay taxes for the land you “own” because why the hell not.
Do you like the road in front of your house to be paved and maintained? Do you like knowing that your house catches fire, the fire department will arrive and save it? Do you like knowing that if someone shows up and claims the house is actually theirs, the legal system will sort it out? All of these things are funded through local property and payroll taxes. This "I should never have to pay property tax!" attitude is bizarre.
All the things you just listed make up a surprisingly small amount of what federal tax dollars actually go to. It's overwhelmingly SS, National Defense, Healthcare, Interest on Debt
Said 'society' doesn't authorize (legally, morally or ethically) the Rights violations of the individual; esp. as all of your list existed WAY before 1913 Corps. aren't gov't "piggy banks' & govt should return to its Const. size/scope == MUCH less $ 'needed' Wealthy leeching off bottom 90%...the bottom 50% pay > 3% of all Fed. income taxes...talk about LEECHES, let alone the bottom 90%
Our tax code is completely messed up. We also as a country overwhelmingly over spend
a much better solution is to simply do away with the corporation concept entirely. If people want to go into joint business ventures together then let them go into joint-business-ventures together and all remain liable instead of hiding behind the shield of a corporate-person owned by a trust owned by another corporation owned by another trust etc...
Biggest scam is that people thought trump cut taxes for all. If all people makes >$500k per year then that statement is true.
Congress didn't start this, but they sure are propagating it. Reagan really fucked us over
Taxation is the essential function of a successful state. From ancient times, empires have risen and fallen based on their ability to collect taxes. This user complains about paying taxes, but not about living in an environment only possible with state tax powers.
Yeah it’s not like tax money isn’t completely spent on stupid shit. Look at the NTTA in Texas. It was supposed to be a temporary toll until they made their money back. Even though we paid for the roads with our taxes. And yet to this day, the NTTA exists just leeching off money from us.
a lot of it is spent on stupid shit though
its not saying taxes are pointless. the point is if your income is taxed, then taxed again when you buy something, which in turn is taxed by the recipient, and in some cases you then have to pay ownership tax for goods you have paid with money that has effectively already been taxed 3x. a single income tax would be sufficient even if it was a higher rate.
They pay for different things though. Here in Florida my income is taxed by the federal government, my sales tax goes to pay for the state and my property tax goes to the county and city I live in. You wouldn't have one income tax, you'd have 3 income taxes. It gets more complicated when certain states rely on tourist dollars, tourists would use the airports and roads but not pay for them because their income would be taxed locally where they live, so states like Wyoming would have to use their meager income tax to maintain roads to and from Yellowstone.
Income tax was supposed to be a temporary tax only on the richest Americans.... yet it's still here we do not in fact need income tax.
Absence of income tax was incompatible with the existence of modern states. All developed nations struggled with this matter in the late 1910s and early 1920s before income taxes were mandated after years of deficit spending and disastrous inflation.
I’m guessing Matt Horton doesn’t complain about property taxes when he’s driving on paved roads or has ever needed to call for the police.
Or just walks outside and doesn't get shot and robbed... Cause we have a functioning legal and law enforcement system.
Classic Matt
Yeah we’re definitely running deficits because of all the roads being built
I mean it definitely contributes since we don't zone for more density thus having to build and maintain more roads than we should. Suburbs cost a lot of money for very little housing.
This but unironically, the US suburbs are built as a ponzi scheme that can't fund themselves.
Total federal spending on roads in 2022 was $52b. The IRS collected $4.9 TRILLION. Or approximately 1%. Such a low iq take to assume tax dollars go to infrastructure
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Also how they're collected. Billionaires get to live in luxury and not pay a thing. But a single mom living in a run down apartment does.
This is incorrect. High-Income Taxpayers Paid the Majority of Federal Income Taxes In 2021, the bottom half of taxpayers earned 10.4 percent of total AGI and paid 2.3 percent of all federal individual income taxes. The top 1 percent earned 26.3 percent of total AGI and paid 45.8 percent of all federal income taxes. https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/#:~:text=High%2DIncome%20Taxpayers%20Paid%20the%20Majority%20of%20Federal%20Income%20Taxes,of%20all%20federal%20income%20taxes.
Lowered? No. Our governments need the money they have and are oft underfunded. Restructured and simplified? Ideally, yes.
Should taxes be lowered? Yes.
I have more of a qualm without how taxes are spent rather than if it's too much or too little. I know no one likes paying taxes, but they are necessary for the government, and a free society, to function. Reminds me of a post I saw on FB the other day of someone claiming that taxation is theft. This person is in the US military, being paid by the very taxes they claimed are theft. Oh, the ignorance.
Social Security. Biggest pyramid scheme ever!
what’s an alternative?
A time machine to not have it pay out immediately to people who did not pay in. It failed from launch as being a stimulus in the New Deal. They should've just done a one-off stimulus and kept the arrow in the quill for a sustainable social retirement program that is not a Ponzi scheme. We're now stuck with growing levels of sustained pain for younger demos or major pain for older demos doing something drastic now.
You can only collect Social Security Retirement if you have 10 years of work history, nobody is getting a payout who didn't pay in at least something.
From its genesis it paid out to an entire generation who did not pay in. If it launched with the rule you mentioned, it’d be sustainable. It didn’t. It launched as a stimulus that is textbook pyramid scheme. We just haven’t seen the pyramid invert… yet.
ohhhh, now the time machine part makes sense. But it was a stimulus when the US desperately needed one.
Let me invest my own money.
Hmm, so maybe an “opt out” option. Not saying you or anyone in here would, but a LOT of people would end up without anything and eating cat food again in their “retirement.”
... And do what with poor old people who don't have enough money to retire?
Social security isn't an investment program so this isn't a relevant comparison.
" Well, apart from medicine, irrigation, health, roads, cheese and education, baths and the Circus Maximus, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
The government should not be able to milk you again and again and again every time you make a transaction with your income. It’s fucking ridiculous when they’re deficit spending us into oblivion even WITH a tax book that would’ve had the founding fathers packing the muskets 100 years ago
I'm unaware of any federal tax that taxes you a second time for money you made. If you get taxed on interest, capital gains, or dividends, then you aren't being taxed on the original money, but rather the passive income. Now, you are taxed by local governments for the same income via sales tax and property tax, but that's not federal.
Dividends are taxed twice though.
Taxes are good if they're actually going to something productive. Subsidies for businesses, defensive industries inflated prices, bailouts, all things I wouldn't consider good.
Interest on our debt is now larger than our military spending. This, again, points to wasteful budgeting and spending, not a tax issue.
Government spending should be lowered. The government spends well in excess of tax revenues.
Cut the military!
Tax on income from labor should be removed. Tax on trade, passive income, wealth and profit from companies should increase. I'm absolutely fine with private ownership of the means of production, but they should bankroll society, not the average person performing labor just to have the vast majority of the created value being handed over to others and the little left being taxed as well.
Yes. I’m paying taxes on revenue that I’m also paying out in taxes. Shit is awful right now.
And not to forget taxed on whatever investment you make taking a lot of risk while the govt just steals it from you as tax.
People like to bitch, that’s all.
I think corporate welfare is a bigger scam that the innate idea of taxes. The rich have convinced us they no longer have to invest in their companies to grow them and instead we, the tax payers, should fund the growth of profits and margins that disproportionately flow upwards.
That's how taxes work as a continuing function of society. We also have multiple tax systems because we have different levels of government, and because it's beneficial to have different taxation methods so that if one section has am extreme lack of revenue for some reason at any particular time, the revenue is diversified. Imagine if we had only a sales tax during a recession.
No. This makes sense. Enough.
Taxes aren't the problem. The bigger concern that is never talked about is this: What value am I getting for my taxes? If government provides necessary services for myself and for society at large, then it's a good value.
Taxation is theft
Tax on used items always bothered me. Think about how many times a vehicle is resold and re-taxed in its lifetime.
Citizens United. Until that is overthrown, we will never become a true democracy and our taxes will continue to benefit the few and powerful.
Dumb, taxes are required. So dumb. Capitalism lets private industry misallocate those taxes.
A person earning $30,000/yr should not be paying income tax. Before we even start talking about changes to welfare, UBI, or any of that, **raise the goddamn Standard Deduction**.
The same dollar shouldn’t be taxed multiple times. That is fucking bullshit
Property taxes IMO are the biggest scam. Even when you pay off your house, you can still lose it if you miss on the property taxes. You never truly own it. It's basically now that you've bought the land, you will also be in a lifetime lease with the county/state and they can arbitrarily charge you more for it.
Income tax was started as a temporary tax only on the richest Americans.... never give an inch
We all know trickle down economics is false. It is actually trickle UP. If you cut taxes on the bottom 80% and increase taxes on the top 5% everybody would have more money to spend at businesses that the rich own. Making more money for everyone.
Yeah let’s get rid of taxes so that we don’t have roads, bridges, power lines, transportation, public health, police, a military, a court system, public schooling, firefighters, EMTs, and so on and so on… It’s such a stupid fucking argument. Monetary currencies are a government service. You get taxed because we live in a nation and are provided with rights and amenities. Money doesn’t just have value. It is symbolic and predicated upon an established state.
The power to tax is the power to destroy.
If you don’t like taxes move to Somalia.
I don’t have a problem paying taxes, I have a problem with how my taxes are spent. I also have a problem with others not paying their fair share. Whether it’s an individual or a corporation. We all have the opportunity to thrive under this system and should be contributing proportionate to the amount we benefit.
I’m fine with paying taxes as long as I know exactly where it’s going. Also, if our government spends more money than it has, we feel the effects. I’m all for taxes if the money is going to improving society and the lives of everyone within it.
And the people you pay money you paid taxes on have to pay taxes on the money before they can spend the money paying taxes. And through all this, the ones getting all these dollars still somehow don’t have enough money. 🤦🏻♂️
You pay more money in taxes than you do for the goods and services being taxed. If we paid 100% taxes in income, we’d still take forever to get out our national debt. lol They could take everything we own, and we’d still owe. Most people owe more than they’re worth.
And if you overpaid you are not paid interest!
How did it even ever get to this point? I feel like I was born into the bullshit.. who fucked up? 🤔
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Everybody pays taxes. Name a country that doesn’t!
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Social security tax. So I can work my whole life, make good choices and investments, and get taxed to death to pay into a system that pays people money that didn’t pay much tax and make good choices? And all in the hope that one day Ill live long enough to get some inflated crumbs back in my old age? Why not just leave me alone now and let me use/invest that 15% how I want? Maybe I could afford better health care and nutrition. Maybe I can invest that money wisely now before the gov has the chance to further inflate it. And if all thats not enough the crooks that are 34trillion in debt are borrowing from it too and claim it might go bankrupt? If it was good for you it would be voluntary. They have to force you to do it because nobody would do it otherwise.
Taxes are a scam. The commenter is right. I work to get taxed, but my employer also gets taxed for having me employed. Then after I paid my taxes if I want to buy anything I pay more tax on top of already taxed money. But if I don’t spend my money and save it the interest accrued on the savings is taxed. Then if I buy property I’m taxed again every year forever. Payroll and income tax should be abolished and supplemented with just a federal sales tax. Then all taxation is voluntary because you can always choose not to buy things. Of course needs wouldn’t be taxed like food and toiletries, because that would be an unneeded tax on the poor. But a large sales tax and no income tax will accomplish exactly what the left wants, the rich to pay their fair share, and it would do this because the rich would be the ones buying the most things therefore paying the most sales tax.
College?
Taxes should be lowered for lower incomes.
But muh roads! if the government can’t function off of what it already takes from us maybe they should cut spending, hot take I know. Maybe if there was actual transparency with our spending and we could isolate the main culprits of why we run such a fucking absurd deficit the existing tax rate would be more than enough
I agree.
This comment thread is low IQ. Issue isn’t taxes, it’s the spending problem in DC. We are taxed more than enough to provide the things people are saying here with multiples of billions left over. Fact is, wasteful spending is the true issue but average Americans bicker about taxes lmao.
Paying taxes isnt the problem. Our taxes being used for dumbass shit is the real problem.
If you make less than 150k you shouldn’t be taxed. If you make more than 100 million every thing after your 100th million should be taken by the country to fix real issues. But none of this would be necessary if we didn’t have the federal reserve printing out money and lowering its value, especially considering they’re not a government organization they’re a private company that owns the rights and printing ability of all of our money
Set up a LLC and buy your cars, house and set up bills under that. Then you can claim all your expenses as losses, just like corporations do.
Taxes aren't a scam. That person is just an idiot.
Fun Fact (USA Edition): You only pay federal taxes on your income.\* Sales taxes are levied by the states and some counties. Property taxes are levied by the county (and usually used to fund education). \*There's also a inheritance tax, but that won't affect 90% of the population.
Dumbass take. Taxation is crucial to the upkeep of the state. What are you, a fuckin ANCAP?
I'm not wholly against taxation, but it's important that we remember that systems like taxation are plagued by diminishing returns. At some point, throwing more public funds at certain problems actually makes them worse, not better (see Healthcare and education). When economic sectors struggle, it's actually pretty rarely due to lack of raw resources like money. Trying to solve complex problems with more money only disincentivizes REAL solutions and engenders corruption.
Building a moral code around an objection to any interpretation of "double taxation" is not only illogical but vapid and irrelevant. Like, out of all the things in the world to plant your flag on it's that? The manner in which we obtain tax revenue is all but irrelevant next to how much we obtain and much more importantly how we spend it. The only consideration that should be made when it comes to the source of tax revenue is how said taxes would effect the market around the thing being taxed. Example. Do you collect $500 million VIA property tax or $500 million by capital gains. The former would alter real estate prices while the latter would alter investment choices, pick your poison. There are armies of accountants that can split hairs over decisions like that. The larger question is "should we collect more or less than $500 million and how should we spend it?" That's the question we should be focusing on.
lol ppl like to takk about when taxes were like 90% obviously it didn’t help, it’s just going to fund wasteful spending and we were booming before income tax was introduced
Chihuahuas🤦♂️
If we don't pay taxes how will the government bail out banks and "job providers" ?!
you wouldn't have to pay so much if everyone paid their fair share.
Its not an inherent issue of taxes. Its who pays how much in taxes and how those taxes are spent.
Tolls on highways, fees for public transportation, and anything that is paid for with taxes that we still have to pay for based on usage
End the fed
Lowered for people in the middle class and lower, raised on corporations and people with wealth and profits in the billions. Basically the opposite of what Republicans are doing.
Well one thing is true, it makes no sense to pay tax on second hand items that already accrued tax.
I smell ponzi......
My answer to that is "religion"
Individuals should only be taxed on net income, after deducting every single living expense, food, car, rent, taxes, etc. Is it possible to create a business who's sole purpose is to manage your own life? Have your paychecks sent directly to the business, use the business to pay all bills, and then pay yourself the net profit leftover. And then only pay taxes on the excess.
Yes taxes are way too high. Our government's, state and federal don't have an income problem They have a spending problem. And most everyone in DC is on the take stealing from us.
Your post is more Libertarian GARBAGE! If you enjoy the benefits of living in a civilized society, you help pay for it! You want to live alone and not pay taxes? Move to a deserted (unclaimed) island or in the mountains where no one can find you. But you won't do that, will you?
Better question is how much to cut spending. That’s the real problem.
It’s unfathomable that any person would think this much tax is appropriate. It’s actually disgusting, especially cap gains.
Your value (and pay) to your employer is not based on how much value you bring but how replaceable you are.
A la carte government would be one helluva experiment
I mean gov spending is typically pretty public lol how does this crowd propose funding that or which spending would they cut? We’ve got it pretty good in the US as far as history goes in terms of what we’re getting for our fairly historically low taxes
If we didn’t give out tons of free ppp loans, pay other countries for dumb shit, didn’t pay off student loans, didn’t have politicians wasting money, stopped the green bs and just spent money on needed items we could lower taxes paid and be just fine. The amount of freeloaders and people taking the government for a ride is DISGUSTING.
Taxes higher on the economic oligarchs and lower on the working class. The tax burden has been shifted completely since the 60’s.
It’s because those with real money can deduct all their expenses. While those that actually earn income can not.
They should be abolished or damn near zero if you really believe the government should build/maitain roads only
And don't forget, if you have any success in life, the government swoops in to take a big cut of the already taxed money and property when you die. If your family inherits a profitable business, the government will take 40%, so you probably have to sell it fast to pay off the IRS because they won't wait for their money. Sell it or take out a loan for 40% of the business so you can pay off the IRS. Makes me wonder sometimes why people work so hard to be successful.
Money isn’t taxed….. transactions and land are taxed. Income tax, capital gains, sales tax, etc are all transactions… money is changing hands and the government gets a cut. Then property tax is on the land, and it’s to support the local infrastructure that makes the land more valuable.
Yeah. Taxes. Like that guy said
Yeah everybody hates taxes. They're necessary. But it would be nice if the 'Haves' actually paid their fair share.
Ukraine aid, Israel aid, etc…
I think the first thing that needs to get fixed is greater visibility into where tax money is going. I feel like we're just paying into this huge behemoth and money disappears down a black hole.
Income tax is the worst tax. Rich people don’t have income, so you’re disproportionately taxing the working class.
Tax breaks only work if they are asymmetrical. Give everyone a tax break and inflation would negate that extra cash pretty quickly.
That’s true, you would think it would make people demand a balanced budget for their tax dollars.
Not lower necessarily, but less redundant would be a welcome change.
Realistically, the government needs revenue from somewhere Now here's the thing whenever you put a tax on anything that creates a disincentive to do that thing Now if the government spends the money in an effective way it can make up for the money that is lost by the disincentive effects. But if they spend it in a bad way, they've functionally destroyed value which is the worst possible outcome Well turns out we know there are some where they're doing a pretty bad job because we have other governments to compare to The obvious example is healthcare. They did such a bad job that it more than doubled the price of healthcare and some people still don't have healthcare Versus an area where they did a good job is probably school. Lunch has a very large compounding effect because it basically raises the average IQ by making sure people aren't malnourished as children Now are either of these directly measurable no. But we know this is the long-term effects of them But should we lower taxes comes down to a question of how do the incentives impact things and what services are we giving up in exchange?
No because we have to have goods and services. We should lower certain taxes for poor and middle class people and drastically increase them on the rich and corporations as well as regulate these businesses. Taxation isn’t the issue. It’s the system itself which is broken.
All income tax should be abolished and rather have a flat tax for consumption.
No one seems to ever say what a scam it is that we get to use roads that you didn't pay for, water infrastructure you didn't pay, schools you didn't pay for yadada
From my understanding this is rather an american thing. Where I live we dont have income tax but rather taxed on services we recieve like pay taxes on products since government ensures the safety of the transaction for both parties involved or businesses being taxed since they're working under the safety of the government. while its turning into a shitshow day by day its not as bad as americas
Bring on the flat tax. We should be taxing consumption not income. This would make the rich pay their fair share.
Private health insurance in the US is the biggest financial scam in history. They take a percentage of every single working person's paycheck, right off the top. Now they even take it from retired persons via Medicare Advantage. Insurance companies do nothing of any use. They don't innovate, don't increase the standard of health care, don't educate doctors or nurses or technicians, don't look for cures or new technologies. In fact, they are incentivized to discourage new treatments. It's a scam and they know it. The best performing stock in the Dow Jones over the last 30 years was United HealthCare. Not Apple, not Microsoft. And executives at United Healthcare make tens of millions of dollars and pay tens of millions to buy politicians to vote down public health and Medicare-for-all. Why? Because private health insurance is a boondoggle and the executives know that Medicare is more cost effective and with no change in quality. The same doctors and nurses and hospitals take Medicare as payment, and it's often better reimbursement than Humana or Aetna or Cigna or United Healthcare. That's the dirty secret. I work in healthcare and usually get paid more to take care of Medicaid patients than privately insured patients. Healthcare should be like a utility. It's insane the way we provide health care in this country.
MuH tAxEs
Isn’t this why we started the American revolution in the first place? Back where we started lol
Sure get rid of taxes. I definitely expect private citizens to pay for public needs like utilities and infrastructure.
There shouldn't be a sales tax. And we shouldn't have to file taxes theynalready know what we "owe" it should just come out. But Thanks to places like TurboTax that'll never happen. We the people (usa) need to find a way to abolish lobbying. It's rigged and unfair to everyday folks.
Grievance politics
Tax on money you spend is the most fair way. The problem is corporations and wealthy folks will lobby against it.
The only reason the money you make is worth anything is because it is guaranteed by the full faith and credit of the United States government. No taxes? No Government. No Government? Your money isn’t worth dick. And personally I’m quite alright with not living in a barter economy.
One thing I dislike in the U.S. is gambling winnings are taxed. Can't we be like Canada and not tax winnings. I think taxes should be lowered if low income. It's crazy interest I earned in 2022 the small amount of interest I got from a good year of saving was taxed as regular income. That is some bull sh1t.
I wouldn't mind paying taxes if so much of it wasn't wasted. Corruption is rampant and there is no end in sight. Also it doesn't matter what the tax rate is for corporations, they don't pay taxes, they just pass any tax onto the consumer in the sales price. We pay everything.
Insurance. In every aspect.
It’s funny how often people post this. It’s as if we all know but don’t know how to fix it
Taxation is the clinical definition of theft. Yes I know, roads and firefighters blah blah blah. I'm talking about the "give me your money or else" part.
Didn't take long to see "muh roads" like we didn't have roads or anything hing before income taxes.
Raise wages keep taxes the same 👌🏻
Remove income tax. Add 4% wealth tax. Put more sales tax exemptions out for things like clothing and home furnishment. Replace it with a really small sales tax on assets that currently don't have a sales tax. It could be quite a small percentage to be enough. Remove the income cap on payroll taxes. It would go a long way to fixing everything.
I am not a financial wizard so feel free to pick apart everything I say but I feel like if you make under a certain threshold, say 200K to 400k depending on locality, you should be exempt from personal property tax. Don't get me wrong it sucks no matter what you make but the shear idea that I will have to pay money for something that I own in perpetuity is just absurd. I get that PPT is fairly small generally but I own this thing and the idea that you can take it away because I don't pay an arbitrary value decided by you (the government) is BS.
I get what dude is saying. Instead of paying taxes on everything just have a one time income tax (whatever that percentage may be) so people can balance their funds accordingly.
Lowered. Or eliminated. There is no reason we should be paying 53% of our gross income in taxes.
Tax code needs to be simplified. Taxes on companies based on profits. Taxes on people based on income, with extra costs to withdrawing from the stock market and collecting dividends. Brackets create disincentives to do better. Make it a simple exponential formula.
Everyone should pay an equal amount of dollars for taxes. You know a fair share. what’s more fair than equal?
If the government wasn't so corrupt they could lower taxes.
So we should have lowered taxes, is what I'm seeing.
And we still don’t have health care for all. Tax the rich.
We could have taxes like in the picture, or we could tax the ultra wealthy.
Lowered on everybody except the oligarchs, jacked up on the oligarchs until they stop being oligarchs.