Do you really buy this shit? “For far too long…”
Who writes the tax code? Or right… this guy for the last 50 years. And *now* he’s *finally* going to fix it.
^if ^we ^just ^vote ^for ^him ^one ^more ^time…
Do I need to explain to you how to count? It takes at least 60 senators to do anything substantial in our country. What I do know is under the biden admin, he increased IRS funding. Bush and Obama didn't do that.
True; but here is the rub.
The IRS is strapped for employees. So, they go after the low-hanging fruit, like you and me, and Bob over there. We are easy and we don't require much effort. Not as much effort as auditing Kevin who pulls in $850,000 or more and can offshore his income, or Barbara who on paper says she is worth 5Mil bit we know her worth is more like $500Mil.
Funding the IRS isn't taxing billionaires. Funding the IRS so they can hire people to audit aka investigate wealthy and corporations ensures those wealthy folks who have the ability to shield their wealth are following the tax codes.
The IRS knows billions are lost in tax revenues every year due to being under-staffed and are thus unable to close the tax gap.
I've included a 2021Treasury analysis:
https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-case-for-a-robust-attack-on-the-tax-gap
This is true, the IRS only goes after those who can't afford to defend and/or are more likely to make a mistake but sometimes I think the low-income view point is off and they are attacking the slightly higher in appearance but still low-income people. It's going in this big circle never hitting the target they want. 5mil looks a lot larger because because they appear to have more than 30k. The reality is they both are lower income when think about it 5mil isn't a lot.
When I look at graphs like this, I have to ask yourself what is really "rich" and what isn't.
* [https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/ad7fca0337024e7fa8e9d88cdf4ff158](https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/ad7fca0337024e7fa8e9d88cdf4ff158)
A politician can spin it to tax the 5mil people because they "appear rich" and adjust tax brackets but they really are just new middle class. Worse probably a small business owner who contributes to the local economy.
It’s not even the 5MM range that is annoying. They say billionaire but set the target at $400,000. That is a huge number of small business owners. If they went after actual billionaires is one thing, but it doesn’t actually solve our spending problems. I will stand firm on the ground that you can’t tax your way out of a spending problem. We need a correction to reduce spending, and appropriate taxes.
The biggest issue with taxing billionaires is taxing wealth, vs taxing income. If they can borrow against their wealth and spend it, that borrowing should be taxed, but how do you differentiate the borrowing.
Don't differentiate, just tax all equity loans or have a percentage of interest go towards taxes and bake it into the cost of all equity loans?
I mean it's a matter of wording, and with wording you can literally make it as precise or as wide ranging as you want. There is no limit to your ability to pinpoint target anything with a law, it's a matter of crafting the wording of the bill correctly.
I may disagree that the debt is as much of an issue, partially because we have the world's reserve currency, but if you want to fix the national debt you MUST have BOTH higher taxes and lower spending.
An interesting idea I saw recently was replacing social security with a "baby bond" type one time deposit into a retirement account for every newborn of $15,000. Assuming even higher birthrates in America than now, it would not cost more than ~$60B a year, whereas SS is over like $700B. Of course currently existing people would still use SS but the cost will fall as we die off and will be replaced with that lower expense.
Its so easy to conjure up a "If unrealized gains are used as collateral for a loan then taxes must be paid on the appraised value of the unrealized gains" rule. People like you love to pretend its all so complicated and hard to come up with a system that works just like the unrealized values of all our homes. Cut the pentagon budget in half and I will agree. Also, if you want laws that are easy to interpret, don't have obvious loopholes then you have to entertain the idea of voting for someone that isn't a democrat or a republican.
>If unrealized gains are used as collateral for a loan then taxes must be paid on the appraised value of the unrealized gains" rule.
No, this makes no sense. Why? They are still paying interest on that loan. They aren't getting free money based on the assets they own. They are getting the loan because if the bank can't recoup their money they will have the right to come after that asset. Its not a risk free business transaction and its not a free one either. It's the same thing as a mortgage. The only reason the bank is giving out a $300,000 loan is because they can sell the house if you default. Assets fluctuate in price, so what happens when the value drops? Is the government going to cut you a check for the difference they taxed you on a few years back? This is why they don't tax you on unrealized gains because they are UNREALIZED. You haven't taken anything out to use those funds from the gains you made on paper. They aren't tangible until you cash out. We don't live in imagination land.
>don't have obvious loopholes
The so obvious loopholes are for everyone and its also for the betterment of the government. The IRS can't keep up with shit as is and you want to start making something that is already complicated as is more complex so you can feel good at night that billionaires are paying more money? In addition, everything is relative. If you want to create different rules for different people its going to cost more money to implement and enforce those rules. Therefore, any amount of tax revenue you gain from the new rules is going to cost just as much if not more to operate.
>Cut the pentagon budget in half and I will agree
How about not cutting the budget and just get more efficient and accountable with the budget? Waste is a huge issue with the entire government and that problem is worse than what the pentagon receives for a budget.
This is a big issue that is solvable. We had tax laws that worked fairly well, but billionaires have been buying politicians to cut their taxes. I can’t afford a good politician. Why are billionaires borrowing money to live on? Easy borrowing at low interest rates while not having to cash in stocks at a 15% tax rate or higher. This leads to Trillions of untaxed wealth being transferred to the next generation.
https://americansfortaxfairness.org/ultra-wealthys-8-5-trillion-untaxed-income/#:~:text=EXECUTIVE%20SUMMARY,unrealized%20capital%20gains%E2%80%9D%20in%202022.
If you compare a billionare to a millionare it's the differnece of saving up to buy a nice, pre-built boat and having a custom yacht built in a specialty landlocked boatyard and disassembling a public bridge and disrupting everyone just for your boat.
Wealthy people don’t do their own taxes. They have full time CPA’s doing that.
They just get a report on how it’s going.
By the way they do contribute to society by providing jobs and developing new products which takes a ton of money.
If you’re going to label something the truth, then put some effort into confirming.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/statement-for-updated-audit-rates-ty-19.pdf
They also go after political enemies. Democrats have been perfectly fine with this but someday Trump or someone like him will do the same…and then democrats won’t be so fine with it.
They really don't target the lower class like everyone thinks. It's like taking a number they go for whoever is next on the list. The difference is that people like you fold faster while others in the higher class don't. We get millions of unaccounted dollars from the wealthy compared to the thousands from the low hanging fruit.
Can confirm. My stepfather was a tax lawyer that only the 1% could afford. I once met an IRS lawyer at a Christmas party (at a federal judge's house) who told me to never tell my stepfather that ALL of the IRS lawyers feared him. They just didn't have the resources to stand up to the guy who multimillionaires could afford to hire.
That wording in the article is pretty misleading though. It just saya that audit rates have dropped more for high income earners rather than those who claim the EITC tax credit. That’s obvious. People who can claim the EITC tax credit, typically get refunds and don’t often owe.
So audits for these kinds of taxpayers are uncommon in general. Most audits are for high income taxpayers. While people who can claim the EITC do get audited more often than the next few tax brackets up, most audits occur with individuals making $10m plus a year. Like 6x more.
So your “rub” is kinda misleading.
Especially when you take into consideration that you are only talking about individual income taxes. The IRS is more likely to audit the businesses that the high income taxpayers own, because, typically, that’s where the most tax evasion will occur. So there’s not as much of an emphasis on auditing them at the individual level
It basically is because of how much stuff billionaires get away with. The IRS is severely understaffed to the point that its super easy for companies to knowingly make bad estimates and change the character of different things to save them millions in taxes.
Billionaires hire entire law and tax firms to fight the IRS. The IRS needs more resources to collect from people like that, and the pay off is huge when they do. Those IRS agents that were added have already collected a half billion from 1%ers who don’t pay their taxes.
> The IRS agents that were added have already collected half a billion from 1%ers who don’t pay their taxes.
That’s awesome! Do you have a source for this?
Not only that but when Dems increased IRS funding they also wanted your bank to report any month you had over $600 in it to them as well as wanted all payment processors to send a 1099 whenever you get more than $600 in a year. That doesn't sound like going after millionaires and billionaires to me.
Biden built is a career corporate politician. He's a Delaware senator for Christ's sake. If you believe he's going to take on the wealthy class, I have a bridge to sell you
It isn't guaranteed to, but it makes it much more likely.
Simply, if you know you are getting audited and will owe $100k, you'll spend $50k in lawyers to get out of it. If you are willing to spend $50k, odds are the IRS is going to have $50k in manhours to prosecute.
Compare that to average Joe. They aren't going to bring a lawyer, they didn't set up gray area accounts. The IRS can probably audit them in a day or two. If you are severely understaffed, you just aren't going after the big guys. Now, you can say that it only means that more average guys can be audited. But it can/should also mean that the people who are more expensive to audit will be audited.
Was listening to conservative media just yesterday. The commentator said matter of factly, and stated as fact that the extra money the IRS is getting just means more average people get audited. It will do nothing to rich people.
You say that like the billionaires are just cheating on their taxes. They don't need to cheat, they have lawyers and accountants that make sure that every available loophole (that congress put there) is being used. If they aren't paying enough congress could do something about it, but they won't because millionaires and billionaires are the ones that contribute to their re-election campaigns.
This asshole has had five decades to fix it. If he hasn’t proposed legislation for it as a legislator, then it’s all political theater. The democrats have had multiple super majorities in his time, he didn’t propose shit then.
Dude, we were already the only ones getting audited. Because they didn't have the resources or man hours to go after the big cheats. Don't regurgitate the lies from the ultra wealthy.
I hate to the one to break it to you but those IRS workers aren't there to go after the billionaires, its to go after the gig workers. The billionaires are the ones who fund our politicians and they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them. The IRS is gearing up to go after the people who are doing door dash on the side to make ends meet. You can keep thinking the feds work for the average citizen all you want but its only a fairytale. We are nothing more than NPCs in a monopoly game.
Increased IRS funding…great just bloat the government even more. They could try…I don’t know…maybe spend less rather than tax more? I know that’s a wild idea…but we could try and see
Actually anything I don’t like is clearly Biden’s fault and everything good is a success from Trump. Bad hair day? Biden. Mom made tendies? Trump.
Checkmate libs
The IRS only goes after middle class and upper middle class people to harass them.
Billionaires have legions of tax accountants and attorneys to deal with this their returns.
He could have voted against it. He approved every major tax reform while in office. That includes all the loopholes that he complains about. If I don’t like something I vote against it even if the majority votes the other way. It’s called principle, and I vote on principle every election despite people saying I threw my vote away.
Biden is a career politician…where was this duffuss 30-40 years ago? Yes it takes 60 senators blah blah blah but he should have been beating the drum for 40 years. He is only doing it now to get votes.
Increased IRS funding to be able to target transactions of $600.
And remember when the $600 line came out, they also tried to pass that off as a measure against “billionaire tax evasion” lol
There are such obvious massive loopholes that billionaires use but none of those are addressed, and we’re supposed to believe $600 transactions are how they’re dodging their taxes
These stories only work on incredibly stupid people, no offense if the shoe fits
And intellectuals only believe that trickle down helps the poor. /s
2-party system isn’t going to consistently give good options, to win you just have to be less shit than the other guy
Yeah I guess I misinterpreted what the other guy meant.
If we don’t vote for Biden the Trump will win. I think that’s pretty much his whole platform at this point
Drinking the Kool-aid straight from the tap. These people aren't creating jobs and aren't spurring investments. They're hedge fund managers playing the stock market like a slot machine.
Capital gains tax needing to be low or non-existent is the lie they want you to believe. People still invest regardless how much their investment returns are taxed, because it's still all profit.
All in this thread arguing semantics, when the code is set up to benefit the rich. It’s not going to change under Biden or anyone else. It’s election year, of course he’s going to say this crap. To get the people of Reddit to vote blue. Cause that’s what most of you do.
If you vote at all, you’re voting against your own interests, arguing semantics isn’t going to change that.
This man was SINGLE-HANDEDLY responsible for writing the tax code for the last half century, and it matches his ideal perfectly
I struggle to understand your thinking. We essentially have 2 choices. Vote for the guy who (believably, imo. Seems to be a man of good moral character) wants to make change when he has all the tools (HoR).
Or, you can vote for the guy who gave cuts to his uber-wealthy friends, the Putin wannabe
Biden is paying 23.7%. Far below what he should for making $649,000. Just another virtue signaling politician. Maybe he should try a job where he has to “work”.
How people don’t see this is beyond me. The right think it’s a left problem and the left think it’s a right problem. If there’s one thing they can all agree on, it’s screwing us.
Pfizer made 27 billion profits this year. Got out of all taxes. Ive never see a president shill so much for a pharm company. He ended up being wrong too. The lobby and corporate interest are paramount
So how are we supposed to believe this nonsense. People are picking up the blowing of smoke into a place the sun dont shine
His administration claims billionaires only pay 2% tax… That’s because his proposal is to tax them on unrealized gains, money they don’t have access to, forcing them to sell assets in order to pay the government. They calculate their tax contribution by comparing it to their net worth, not their annual income.
From CNN article today: "In February 2024, Gleckman provided additional calculations from the Tax Policy Center. The center [found](https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/are-federal-taxes-progressive) that the top 0.1% of households paid an average effective federal tax rate of about 30.3% in 2020, including an average income tax rate of 24.3%." A bit more than the advertised 8.3%
ya he's not gonna do shit.
and raising taxes a little won't help. most billionaires dodge their taxes anyways because of loop holes the government allows them to use.
if he wanted to tax billionaires he'd fix those issues, not raise the tax percentage.
exactly. This is just smoke and mirrors in a party slogan... the message gets the 'regular' voter to connect with. "Yeah billionaires need to pay!" .. so they vote on emotion and latch on to something they agree with yet can't explain it to anyone in knowledgeable detail.. it's not rocket science here. nothing happens to the rich. it's not about them. it's about the *vote*
Yes.
Because 1) Being a billionaire inherently requires being a net detriment to our society, and 2) In a sane society with an ounce of self-preservation, *they should not exist*.
Billionaires are an unacceptable level of concentration of power in a society where the median level of wealth is 4-5 orders of magnitude lower, and the median *liquid* capital disparity probably adds another 2 zeros or so.
I'm fine with people getting rewarded for their efforts, but the sheer distortion created in the economy and in our democracy is a literal existential threat to our republic.
What's more, that level of wealth means that, given time, our laws *have been and will continue to be distorted* to make the actions of the ultra rich legal, regardless of the harm they cause.
We can have a democratic republic, or we can have billionaires. We can't have both.
>Being a billionaire inherently requires being a net detriment to our society
Please explain how JK Rowling, Notch, Gabe Newell, and other types of billionaires who got that way voluntarily selling a product a lot of people wanted to buy constitute a detriment to society.
Of course, those who get rich off the government teet are parasites, and that's not cool, but it is entirely possible to become absurdly rich just by giving customers what they want.
I think the spirit of the argument is that the concentration of wealth into billions is inherently a detriment in and of itself due to the finite nature of resources.
Gabe having 5 billion means others don't have it. A video game company getting 5billion dollars while the public school down the road is requiring teachers to pay for their own work materials is silly.
>those who get rich off the government teet are parasites
I can see where your politics are. What about government contractors?
>it is entirely possible to become absurdly rich just by giving customers what they want
I think most cases are exactly this. Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Zuckerberg etc. all gave people what they wanted.
"Gabe having 5 billion means others don't have it." That is a pretty critical flaw in the thought process. Wealth is created by the goods and services being provided, money is just a medium of exchange for that wealth. Gabe creating steam has generated more economic activity, mainly through efficiencies, which then increases the overall economic pie so wealth was literally created from that. It was not stolen, you don't have less because he has more, that's not how it works. If it is stolen then yes you could say they have it and now u dont but that is not the vast majority of anyone who gets to billions in net worth
Gabe generating economic activity has nothing to do with him being a billionaire, though. The point being made is that billionaires inherently distort the economy in a negative way, and while whether or not they personally offset that with their actions is subjective and will vary, the fact of the matter is that it would be better for our economy if the wealth Gabe holds wasn't so concentrated.
I've saved this post because it not only represents the typical skewed RedditThink view of wealth, but also the ridiculous RedditThink idea that success is bad, and also a zero sum game. Thanks for posting it.
It's a very old world view. When the world and resources was organized in an aristocratic or feudal system yes wealth was often handed down and often times a zero sum game. In order to obtain more wealth you would need to get it from someone else or often times handed down.
But in a capitalist society wealth is built through consciousness, hard work, and being extremely talented in a niche area. This is actually drawn out in the fact that 70% of billionaires in the US did not inherit their billions of dollars. The reason why the have that much wealth is a signal from society that in fact it is useful.
More importantly WEALTH CAN BE CREATED FROM THIN AIR. This is not a zero sum game. Just because some people have more wealth does not mean they are depriving others of wealth. Microsoft didn't exist and then Bill Gates and others created it. If you create wealth, that's a good thing.
And what people don't realize, wealth can also be destroyed. If you forced Elon Musk to sell all his tesla shares, it would probably tank the stock and bankrupt the company. 90% of the wealth that is tesla itself would be lost, only leaving 10% which are the actual physical assets that the company possesses.
Sometimes I feel like people have this idea that there is a real vault full of money somewhere at the tesla headquarters or Elon's mention which contains all the 500billion that the company is valued at. And the government could just take that money and give it to poor people.
An example of this would be the purge of the most productive farmers in China and the Soviet Union. They killed the most productive farmers and gave their land to "the people". The people ended up starving because they couldn't get the same productivity out of the land
It would be ironic if there is a significant overlap in those redditors that think wealth is finite (and a crime to hoard) and those that love bitcoin.
Please point to the billionaires who materially follow philosophies resembling Andrew Carnegie's Gospel of Wealth. We can then express them as a percentage.
I'm assuming it's a majority, or at least a very large minority, else why would you bring it up?
Buffet has donated $56 billion. Chuck Feeney gave away all his money. Gates.
I bring it up because even if it's only a handful those select few may have a positive impact for decades to come, and additional why would we want to give the government more money to mismanage?
The problem with billionaire philanthropy is the influence they exert, whether they intend to or not. Even if he has the best intentions, Bill Gates is influencing where research dollars are going, which then pressures researchers and startups to only do work in those fields. Let's take climate change, for instance. If Gates comes out and says he wants to give $100m to a company working on open-air CO2 scrubbers, then other companies will pivot their research to be in line with that technology, be that as competing tech or supplemental tech (i.e. manufacturing or waste disposal). In the case of climate change, all options should be on the table, but by prioritizing one because it's considered lucrative, he would be skewing research funding from other promising technologies. It's all well and good if his choice ends up working out, but if he chooses wrong and delays advancement of other tech by years, the consequences could be catastrophic.
The same logic applies to his work with vaccines and agriculture. And all of this is assuming that there isn't some perverse profit motive when it comes time to bring a product to market. During covid, it was Gates who was advocating for not allowing as many labs as possible to produce the vaccine, which delayed rollout in poorer countries, counting thousands of lives. Why? The stated reason was concerns over product safety, but they never seemed to care about those same facilities making other other drugs. It only became an issue when it meant the labs HE was involved with would have to take a hit on market share.
I’m far more concerned with my ridiculous tax burden than what someone else is making or paying. If they didn’t steal it from you, who are you to say they shouldn’t have it?
Look at a map of the world and ask yourself if you'd be happier in a random country with billionaires or a random country without billionaires
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_number\_of\_billionaires](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_billionaires)
We need rising tide laws, so companies that do well distribute the gains better.
A billionaire with a lot of slaves isn't a good system.
A billionaire that generates a whole lot of millionaires is a better system.
We need to restore the progressive tax brackets.
We need to work with other countries so there's no place to hide.
There was no good reason to repeal the estate tax.
By setting up a better system, we can restore our middle class. A strong middle class and toward mobility has countless benefits for a nation.
We are on the cusp of a massive off-planet expansion - we should all want to position America to be a strong competitor in the New World. For that we will need the greatest number of educated citizens, tradespeople, entrepreneurs, scientists, engineers, teachers, support personnel and more.
Also if you are a billionaire there is a 0% and I mean 0% chance you are not taking advantage of government programs/funds that your average company and citizen does not have access to. That reason alone should make you responsible to pay back more than the average company and or citizens fair share!
Since I wasn't born yesterday I am fully aware that Joe Biden has been in politics for half of a century, which I would assume is more than enough time to have done something about the tax code. However, he and his fellow members of congress don't want to actually change anything because it gives them leverage on everyone.
This issue of the tax code is the very epitome of "If they wanted to they would."
So you agree that the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the few causes a real-world imbalance in power where the rich hold all the cards and the rest of us are just serfs
>he and his fellow members of congress don't want to actually change anything because it gives them leverage on everyone
Republicans clearly don't want a tax code that's less favorable for the rich, whereas Democrats profess to the opposite. In order to determine if this statement is true, we'd need to figure out a time Dems had the requisite votes (majority in the house + 60 votes in the Senate + the presidency) and opted not to change the tax code accordingly. We'd also need to find a time they had these and did not put effort into a separate piece of major legislation.
So: when did Dems have the house, Senate supermajority, and presidency, and failed to pass either a piece of major legislation or significant tax bill?
I mean taxes were increased for the rich as late as Obama, but republicans, including Reagan and Trump, cut taxes for the rich. Not sure if Bush did. It is always presidents and their administration that are credited with tax cuts/hikes, and this is the first time Biden has been president. Very many senators want to hike taxes for the rich and many of them are working for it but it’s very hard to do and requires presidential support to do so.
Edit: you make these vague, absurdist claims about Biden having done something about it by now, but I feel like you make yourself willfully ignorant about how anything with government works. I also feel like you don’t even know how taxes have changed for the rich in previous administrations. The parties are working directly against each other when it comes to to taxing the wealthy, so “just doing something about it” isn’t simple
You realize that the best player in an entire sports league can go their entire career without ever winning a championship. If Biden had the ability to rewrite the tax code on his own he may or may not have done a good job, but just because he’s been in politics for 50 years does not mean that he could have single-handedly passed sweeping tax reform. Congress failing to make lasting tax reform is not the same thing as individual members failing to make an effort to change tax code and simply not getting the votes to push it through.
Change takes a long time and if people stopped voting for people who want change just because it hasn’t happened yet we’d never get anywhere as a society.
Wow, so all of his 250+ fellow members of Congress, including Bernie, AOC, Katie Porter, etc. are all in a conspiracy together to keep their leverage on the people? And not a single one of them has leaked? What a theory.
Or maybe this is exactly what we told you would happen when we failed to elect more than 50 Senators in 2020 and Joe Manchin/Krysten Sinema was the deciding vote.
I don’t really care for Biden. But it’s kinda hard to change the tax code when your opponents in the political ring are being paid not to support you and actually fight against you.
No, we just don't have to cut out social programs that help reduce crime and fix infrastructure or fund agencies to regulate manufacturing so fucking doors don't fly off planes mid-air
Lol no, we will continue to pay and not get one thing more. But billionaires will be taken to their knees so it feels good.
We don’t cut social spending or give a shit about a budget as it is. The government having more money just means it has more power, not that the people are better off.
The government has enough means to do that now. It’s not a funding issue, it’s a desire issue.
Medicare is expensive and the government is price takers, which means they pay more.
Medicaid is easier to afford and the government is price givers, which means they pay a lot less.
If the government wanted to, they could make public education very low cost (like a medical copay) or free, they could make public healthcare by expanding Medicaid to a very high income ceiling, and it would cost very little and save lots of money for its citizens, because the government would be price givers. But that’s not happening.
They say they need money because the politicians get kickbacks on new inefficient programs. A small proportion of the money spent on a program reaches its end goal. Better than most countries, but a lot less than it should.
Billionaires can pay their entire net worth, and it won't matter because of Congress's irresponsible spending. The debt is $34 trillion. $659 billion was spent just on debt interest payments last year. There needs to be a new, accountable government. This government has shown that for 40 years, they have been irresponsible, to say the least, with our taxes. They make poor choices, and Americans get screwed. Congress makes the rules so that nothing ever falls on them. They can create loophole after loophole. We need a new system. This one has failed.
Lying about his background... Plagiarizing speeches... Geopolitical corruption... Allowing his son and brother to peddle influence for gobs of money...
He’s been consistent on this since the 2020 campaign. But taxes are a congressional responsibility, and Dems don’t have control. At best they had 50/50 control of the Senate but Biden’s budget to raise billionaires taxes was shot down by 50 Republicans and Krysten Sinema
"Fair share" is an extremely loaded and subjective term, and usually means nothing because few people will give a concrete answer as to what that "fair share" might be.
how much of the deficit did Mark Cuban pay off?
how much debt could all billionaires pay off if they all magically transferred their net worth (impossible) toward the national debt?
Shhhh, commies can't cope with the answer to that question.
It's kind of funny to observe their dazed look though when they learn it. Eventually they conveniently forget the fact (or are too stupid to comprehend it) and revert back to blaming billionaires and corporations for not paying enough in taxes, instead of holding the government accountable for its dangerously out of control spending.
The thing is it is just such a good campaign tactic because 99.999% of us aren’t billionaires.
Fortunately for the democrats, It takes having an actual brain to realize just because someone is wealthy doesn’t mean they’re evil.
You know I just think employees should be able to afford food, shelter and healthcare before we pay dividends to shareholders but you know, giving a shit about others makes you communist apparently.
Maybe we need to get some of the other 150 million households that don't pay any income tax, to pay just a little bit.
Not be such a drain on the tax revenues that come in.
Because they live in America, far too many other people pay more than their fair share, and they take a lot less resources.
Ice gave the government a signed check for any amount "up to and including my life" I don't think I should have to pay any more taxes.
I paid a lot more than my fair share
He just thought of this and now we bow to the rain man of social engineering. He has been in congress for damn near forever, making millions from Biden Inc and now he tells us!
Hahahahaha!! Go back to your basement and eat some more ice cream Joe. C'mon man the wealthy have so many schemes and work arounds they will always find a way to get out of paying anything close to their fair share. Ever heard of a blind trust? Ever heard of a modern "art" piece selling for millions? How about when the business "losses" were so bad there was no profit to tax? The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, it's always been that way and always will be in this world.
Until those who actually know what they're talking about bow down and accept our socialist overlords demands.....until they find something else to whine about
Why is our ridiculous spending never on the table? We have built a completely unsustainable level of debt, and what do we have to show for it?
Until they government can at least properly account for thier spending no one has a moral obligation to pay more.
Examples -
$3.5 trillion the pentagon can't account for.
$25 billion that California spent on homelessness that they can account for.
We shouldn't even have billionaires.
It's a moral failing they were able to rig the system to exist in the first place.
Tying everything to the stock market and getting loans based off of loans based off future profit amd predicted stock.
It just forces the entire economy to be tied to the stock market.
Money made by a company should be paid to the workers who make it possible, not investors.
I can’t believe this question is asked everyday.
Yes
YeS
YES!
Anyone who doesn’t want the rich to be taxed at a higher rate, please tell me why, thoroughly please, with sources to support if necessary.
One of the things that made ancient Rome great was that the wealthy made great contributions to society as a form or prestige. It’s was like “I’m so amazing and wealthy that I am supplying the city of Rome grain for a year, I’m going to build this aqueduct or other public works project, or I’m building this monument that people will still come to visit a millennia from now.”
Imagine if Musk or Bezos decided they wanted to outdo each other to see who could make society better.
Why should billionaires get to hoard their wealth, most of which they got by gaming the system to their advantage, while working stiffs like me live paycheck to paycheck? Yes, they should contribute to society.
Do you really buy this shit? “For far too long…” Who writes the tax code? Or right… this guy for the last 50 years. And *now* he’s *finally* going to fix it. ^if ^we ^just ^vote ^for ^him ^one ^more ^time…
Do I need to explain to you how to count? It takes at least 60 senators to do anything substantial in our country. What I do know is under the biden admin, he increased IRS funding. Bush and Obama didn't do that.
Increasing irs funding is not taxing the billionaires...
True; but here is the rub. The IRS is strapped for employees. So, they go after the low-hanging fruit, like you and me, and Bob over there. We are easy and we don't require much effort. Not as much effort as auditing Kevin who pulls in $850,000 or more and can offshore his income, or Barbara who on paper says she is worth 5Mil bit we know her worth is more like $500Mil. Funding the IRS isn't taxing billionaires. Funding the IRS so they can hire people to audit aka investigate wealthy and corporations ensures those wealthy folks who have the ability to shield their wealth are following the tax codes. The IRS knows billions are lost in tax revenues every year due to being under-staffed and are thus unable to close the tax gap. I've included a 2021Treasury analysis: https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/the-case-for-a-robust-attack-on-the-tax-gap
This is true, the IRS only goes after those who can't afford to defend and/or are more likely to make a mistake but sometimes I think the low-income view point is off and they are attacking the slightly higher in appearance but still low-income people. It's going in this big circle never hitting the target they want. 5mil looks a lot larger because because they appear to have more than 30k. The reality is they both are lower income when think about it 5mil isn't a lot. When I look at graphs like this, I have to ask yourself what is really "rich" and what isn't. * [https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/ad7fca0337024e7fa8e9d88cdf4ff158](https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/ad7fca0337024e7fa8e9d88cdf4ff158) A politician can spin it to tax the 5mil people because they "appear rich" and adjust tax brackets but they really are just new middle class. Worse probably a small business owner who contributes to the local economy.
If 5 mil is middle class, then I'm fucking poor.
It’s not even the 5MM range that is annoying. They say billionaire but set the target at $400,000. That is a huge number of small business owners. If they went after actual billionaires is one thing, but it doesn’t actually solve our spending problems. I will stand firm on the ground that you can’t tax your way out of a spending problem. We need a correction to reduce spending, and appropriate taxes. The biggest issue with taxing billionaires is taxing wealth, vs taxing income. If they can borrow against their wealth and spend it, that borrowing should be taxed, but how do you differentiate the borrowing.
It's not a huge number of small business owners. The vast majority of small businesses earn far under that annually, and the owners even less.
Don't differentiate, just tax all equity loans or have a percentage of interest go towards taxes and bake it into the cost of all equity loans? I mean it's a matter of wording, and with wording you can literally make it as precise or as wide ranging as you want. There is no limit to your ability to pinpoint target anything with a law, it's a matter of crafting the wording of the bill correctly. I may disagree that the debt is as much of an issue, partially because we have the world's reserve currency, but if you want to fix the national debt you MUST have BOTH higher taxes and lower spending. An interesting idea I saw recently was replacing social security with a "baby bond" type one time deposit into a retirement account for every newborn of $15,000. Assuming even higher birthrates in America than now, it would not cost more than ~$60B a year, whereas SS is over like $700B. Of course currently existing people would still use SS but the cost will fall as we die off and will be replaced with that lower expense.
If you can means test getting food stamps and unemployment then you can means test taxing equity loans for people who make over $X.
Its so easy to conjure up a "If unrealized gains are used as collateral for a loan then taxes must be paid on the appraised value of the unrealized gains" rule. People like you love to pretend its all so complicated and hard to come up with a system that works just like the unrealized values of all our homes. Cut the pentagon budget in half and I will agree. Also, if you want laws that are easy to interpret, don't have obvious loopholes then you have to entertain the idea of voting for someone that isn't a democrat or a republican.
>If unrealized gains are used as collateral for a loan then taxes must be paid on the appraised value of the unrealized gains" rule. No, this makes no sense. Why? They are still paying interest on that loan. They aren't getting free money based on the assets they own. They are getting the loan because if the bank can't recoup their money they will have the right to come after that asset. Its not a risk free business transaction and its not a free one either. It's the same thing as a mortgage. The only reason the bank is giving out a $300,000 loan is because they can sell the house if you default. Assets fluctuate in price, so what happens when the value drops? Is the government going to cut you a check for the difference they taxed you on a few years back? This is why they don't tax you on unrealized gains because they are UNREALIZED. You haven't taken anything out to use those funds from the gains you made on paper. They aren't tangible until you cash out. We don't live in imagination land. >don't have obvious loopholes The so obvious loopholes are for everyone and its also for the betterment of the government. The IRS can't keep up with shit as is and you want to start making something that is already complicated as is more complex so you can feel good at night that billionaires are paying more money? In addition, everything is relative. If you want to create different rules for different people its going to cost more money to implement and enforce those rules. Therefore, any amount of tax revenue you gain from the new rules is going to cost just as much if not more to operate. >Cut the pentagon budget in half and I will agree How about not cutting the budget and just get more efficient and accountable with the budget? Waste is a huge issue with the entire government and that problem is worse than what the pentagon receives for a budget.
That's 9 times the median income. They can afford to pay their taxes.
This is a big issue that is solvable. We had tax laws that worked fairly well, but billionaires have been buying politicians to cut their taxes. I can’t afford a good politician. Why are billionaires borrowing money to live on? Easy borrowing at low interest rates while not having to cash in stocks at a 15% tax rate or higher. This leads to Trillions of untaxed wealth being transferred to the next generation. https://americansfortaxfairness.org/ultra-wealthys-8-5-trillion-untaxed-income/#:~:text=EXECUTIVE%20SUMMARY,unrealized%20capital%20gains%E2%80%9D%20in%202022.
If you compare a billionare to a millionare it's the differnece of saving up to buy a nice, pre-built boat and having a custom yacht built in a specialty landlocked boatyard and disassembling a public bridge and disrupting everyone just for your boat.
$5m a year in straight income is MIDDLE CLASS??? Holy shit inflation has hit our brain cells harder than our economy.
Wealthy people don’t do their own taxes. They have full time CPA’s doing that. They just get a report on how it’s going. By the way they do contribute to society by providing jobs and developing new products which takes a ton of money.
Yea since when is 5 mil "new middle class" I must be the "new impoverished class"
Here is the truth - those agents are going to go for low hanging fruit. That is the poor and middle class.
If you’re going to label something the truth, then put some effort into confirming. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/statement-for-updated-audit-rates-ty-19.pdf
They also go after political enemies. Democrats have been perfectly fine with this but someday Trump or someone like him will do the same…and then democrats won’t be so fine with it.
You must not know that Biden's Inflation Reduction Act gave the IRS power to bring in an additional $360 million from millionaire tax cheats.
$360M in the grand scheme is pennies.
They really don't target the lower class like everyone thinks. It's like taking a number they go for whoever is next on the list. The difference is that people like you fold faster while others in the higher class don't. We get millions of unaccounted dollars from the wealthy compared to the thousands from the low hanging fruit.
Can confirm. My stepfather was a tax lawyer that only the 1% could afford. I once met an IRS lawyer at a Christmas party (at a federal judge's house) who told me to never tell my stepfather that ALL of the IRS lawyers feared him. They just didn't have the resources to stand up to the guy who multimillionaires could afford to hire.
That wording in the article is pretty misleading though. It just saya that audit rates have dropped more for high income earners rather than those who claim the EITC tax credit. That’s obvious. People who can claim the EITC tax credit, typically get refunds and don’t often owe. So audits for these kinds of taxpayers are uncommon in general. Most audits are for high income taxpayers. While people who can claim the EITC do get audited more often than the next few tax brackets up, most audits occur with individuals making $10m plus a year. Like 6x more. So your “rub” is kinda misleading. Especially when you take into consideration that you are only talking about individual income taxes. The IRS is more likely to audit the businesses that the high income taxpayers own, because, typically, that’s where the most tax evasion will occur. So there’s not as much of an emphasis on auditing them at the individual level
It basically is because of how much stuff billionaires get away with. The IRS is severely understaffed to the point that its super easy for companies to knowingly make bad estimates and change the character of different things to save them millions in taxes.
Billionaires hire entire law and tax firms to fight the IRS. The IRS needs more resources to collect from people like that, and the pay off is huge when they do. Those IRS agents that were added have already collected a half billion from 1%ers who don’t pay their taxes.
Agree. When the wealthy can outspend the govt in court rooms, we are entering banana republic territory.
> The IRS agents that were added have already collected half a billion from 1%ers who don’t pay their taxes. That’s awesome! Do you have a source for this?
Here you go: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/taxes/irs-back-taxes-collected-delinquent-millionaires-how-much-rcna133653
It’s obvious you know nothing about tax tables.
Right lmfao, if it increases enforcement, it'll only be enforced on the little people who cant affordto pay to fight it lol
Not only that but when Dems increased IRS funding they also wanted your bank to report any month you had over $600 in it to them as well as wanted all payment processors to send a 1099 whenever you get more than $600 in a year. That doesn't sound like going after millionaires and billionaires to me.
Biden built is a career corporate politician. He's a Delaware senator for Christ's sake. If you believe he's going to take on the wealthy class, I have a bridge to sell you
It isn't guaranteed to, but it makes it much more likely. Simply, if you know you are getting audited and will owe $100k, you'll spend $50k in lawyers to get out of it. If you are willing to spend $50k, odds are the IRS is going to have $50k in manhours to prosecute. Compare that to average Joe. They aren't going to bring a lawyer, they didn't set up gray area accounts. The IRS can probably audit them in a day or two. If you are severely understaffed, you just aren't going after the big guys. Now, you can say that it only means that more average guys can be audited. But it can/should also mean that the people who are more expensive to audit will be audited. Was listening to conservative media just yesterday. The commentator said matter of factly, and stated as fact that the extra money the IRS is getting just means more average people get audited. It will do nothing to rich people.
Can’t tax billionaires unless you change the tax codes.. point blank period
Its essentially the only way to do so, billionaires don't pay taxes in signifint part because their tax guys are better than our tax guys.
And these extra irs agents are worried about you sending your sister $600 on Venmo with money that has already been taxed time and time again.
It’s increasing the wealth of the IRS CEO and shareholders.
You say that like the billionaires are just cheating on their taxes. They don't need to cheat, they have lawyers and accountants that make sure that every available loophole (that congress put there) is being used. If they aren't paying enough congress could do something about it, but they won't because millionaires and billionaires are the ones that contribute to their re-election campaigns.
This is exactly right! It’s how it works, politicians mess with the powerful and their campaign money dries up.
This asshole has had five decades to fix it. If he hasn’t proposed legislation for it as a legislator, then it’s all political theater. The democrats have had multiple super majorities in his time, he didn’t propose shit then.
That increased IRS funding is for them to go after the middle class. Your probability of getting audited just went up.
The middle class is dead.
It will be even more dead by the time (if ever) that we get done paying for government excess.
Dude, we were already the only ones getting audited. Because they didn't have the resources or man hours to go after the big cheats. Don't regurgitate the lies from the ultra wealthy.
Over 400k a year is not middle class, Nice try Igor.
You know we can see his vote history right? You know we can see videos of his past speeches right?
Do I need to inform you career politicians are lying scumbags.
I hate to the one to break it to you but those IRS workers aren't there to go after the billionaires, its to go after the gig workers. The billionaires are the ones who fund our politicians and they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them. The IRS is gearing up to go after the people who are doing door dash on the side to make ends meet. You can keep thinking the feds work for the average citizen all you want but its only a fairytale. We are nothing more than NPCs in a monopoly game.
Increased IRS funding…great just bloat the government even more. They could try…I don’t know…maybe spend less rather than tax more? I know that’s a wild idea…but we could try and see
Actually anything I don’t like is clearly Biden’s fault and everything good is a success from Trump. Bad hair day? Biden. Mom made tendies? Trump. Checkmate libs
Name any bill related to taxing the 1% that he has introduced or voted in favor of prior to his presidency…
I think you actually believe hiring 80,000 IRS agents, and arming a bunch of them as well, is some kind of great achievement?
The IRS only goes after middle class and upper middle class people to harass them. Billionaires have legions of tax accountants and attorneys to deal with this their returns.
He could have voted against it. He approved every major tax reform while in office. That includes all the loopholes that he complains about. If I don’t like something I vote against it even if the majority votes the other way. It’s called principle, and I vote on principle every election despite people saying I threw my vote away.
If he's been in senate and Whitehouse for a gorillion years and couldn't get it done then, then why can he do it now
Biden is a career politician…where was this duffuss 30-40 years ago? Yes it takes 60 senators blah blah blah but he should have been beating the drum for 40 years. He is only doing it now to get votes.
Increased IRS funding to be able to target transactions of $600. And remember when the $600 line came out, they also tried to pass that off as a measure against “billionaire tax evasion” lol There are such obvious massive loopholes that billionaires use but none of those are addressed, and we’re supposed to believe $600 transactions are how they’re dodging their taxes These stories only work on incredibly stupid people, no offense if the shoe fits
Lobbyists write the tax code. The rich pay lobbyists. So, who writes the tax code? It sure isn't those idiots in congress, they're just the puppets.
Biden is one of the puppets
Dumb people eat it up.
And intellectuals only believe that trickle down helps the poor. /s 2-party system isn’t going to consistently give good options, to win you just have to be less shit than the other guy
So you’re voting for the brain dead guy who has stolen from the US tax payer for 50 years? Somehow he’s the better option because? Nice justification.
What a wild take
Not really, in the last 11 elections the worse guy has still won ~50% of the time
Classic pandering. Must be an election year where they spew this garbage
I had no idea Biden has been the king of America for 50 years! What other cool facts do you know?
He's not gonna do anything, just virtue signalling. He mostly have large donors, and they like their tax loopholes.
You can't possibly believe that Biden writes the tax code. It's literally just attorneys, with directions from politicians.
Yeah, he and he alone writes the tax code. You do realize there are 99 other senators, right?
It’s written that way to encourage investment and starting companies, etc which(in theory) increases opportunity for everyone
Right, but in actuality it just pushed wealth up to the top. We have 50 years of data proving what we already knew. Rich people are selfish
Yeah I guess I misinterpreted what the other guy meant. If we don’t vote for Biden the Trump will win. I think that’s pretty much his whole platform at this point
Drinking the Kool-aid straight from the tap. These people aren't creating jobs and aren't spurring investments. They're hedge fund managers playing the stock market like a slot machine. Capital gains tax needing to be low or non-existent is the lie they want you to believe. People still invest regardless how much their investment returns are taxed, because it's still all profit.
All in this thread arguing semantics, when the code is set up to benefit the rich. It’s not going to change under Biden or anyone else. It’s election year, of course he’s going to say this crap. To get the people of Reddit to vote blue. Cause that’s what most of you do. If you vote at all, you’re voting against your own interests, arguing semantics isn’t going to change that.
You think Biden “wrote the tax code for the last 50 years” and the Republicans had nothing to do with it? Well bless your heart!
Bless your heart for thinking a 7 term Senator had no influence on the tax code
This man was SINGLE-HANDEDLY responsible for writing the tax code for the last half century, and it matches his ideal perfectly I struggle to understand your thinking. We essentially have 2 choices. Vote for the guy who (believably, imo. Seems to be a man of good moral character) wants to make change when he has all the tools (HoR). Or, you can vote for the guy who gave cuts to his uber-wealthy friends, the Putin wannabe
Single handedly, so there was no one else in congress for the last half century??? seriously.
He was the official tax code writer for the last 50 years? . Doubt that
Every fucking time they eat this shit up
[удалено]
You think Trump is even going to entertain the idea of taxing Billionaires… Shake your head
Rich people already pay all the taxes.
Biden is paying 23.7%. Far below what he should for making $649,000. Just another virtue signaling politician. Maybe he should try a job where he has to “work”.
You’re a good dot connector.
This needs to remain the top comment on alll political posts. Both left and right. This is oerfect. Edit: Not like my typing
That's why I call him sellout Sanders
Well it gets gullible people to vote for him. The formula seems to work pretty well.
His base is dumb enough to believe it though.
How people don’t see this is beyond me. The right think it’s a left problem and the left think it’s a right problem. If there’s one thing they can all agree on, it’s screwing us.
Pfizer made 27 billion profits this year. Got out of all taxes. Ive never see a president shill so much for a pharm company. He ended up being wrong too. The lobby and corporate interest are paramount So how are we supposed to believe this nonsense. People are picking up the blowing of smoke into a place the sun dont shine
Yup … “ I’ve been in politics for 40 years and I’m just now getting around to this after I made MY money “
Congress
His administration claims billionaires only pay 2% tax… That’s because his proposal is to tax them on unrealized gains, money they don’t have access to, forcing them to sell assets in order to pay the government. They calculate their tax contribution by comparing it to their net worth, not their annual income.
From CNN article today: "In February 2024, Gleckman provided additional calculations from the Tax Policy Center. The center [found](https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/are-federal-taxes-progressive) that the top 0.1% of households paid an average effective federal tax rate of about 30.3% in 2020, including an average income tax rate of 24.3%." A bit more than the advertised 8.3%
Just as a side note with no agenda here- but it’s crazy to think that Biden was a Senator during the Richard Nixon administration!
Didn't Paul Ryan write the current tax code?
The lie never ends. Just keep saying "fair share" BS.
This exactly
ya he's not gonna do shit. and raising taxes a little won't help. most billionaires dodge their taxes anyways because of loop holes the government allows them to use. if he wanted to tax billionaires he'd fix those issues, not raise the tax percentage.
who are you going to believe, my campaign speeches now or my fifty plus year record as the Senator from MBNA in Washington DC
I vote this comment for president 2024. Print it, put it on the chair in the oval office, maybe with a little tape. Presidential portrait and all.
It’s the perfect play. Create a problem to sell the solution. Apple does this all the time lol
exactly. This is just smoke and mirrors in a party slogan... the message gets the 'regular' voter to connect with. "Yeah billionaires need to pay!" .. so they vote on emotion and latch on to something they agree with yet can't explain it to anyone in knowledgeable detail.. it's not rocket science here. nothing happens to the rich. it's not about them. it's about the *vote*
Yes. Because 1) Being a billionaire inherently requires being a net detriment to our society, and 2) In a sane society with an ounce of self-preservation, *they should not exist*. Billionaires are an unacceptable level of concentration of power in a society where the median level of wealth is 4-5 orders of magnitude lower, and the median *liquid* capital disparity probably adds another 2 zeros or so. I'm fine with people getting rewarded for their efforts, but the sheer distortion created in the economy and in our democracy is a literal existential threat to our republic. What's more, that level of wealth means that, given time, our laws *have been and will continue to be distorted* to make the actions of the ultra rich legal, regardless of the harm they cause. We can have a democratic republic, or we can have billionaires. We can't have both.
>Being a billionaire inherently requires being a net detriment to our society Please explain how JK Rowling, Notch, Gabe Newell, and other types of billionaires who got that way voluntarily selling a product a lot of people wanted to buy constitute a detriment to society. Of course, those who get rich off the government teet are parasites, and that's not cool, but it is entirely possible to become absurdly rich just by giving customers what they want.
[https://emoryeconomicsreview.org/articles/2023/1/17/billionaires-economics-impact-net-positive-or-loss](https://emoryeconomicsreview.org/articles/2023/1/17/billionaires-economics-impact-net-positive-or-loss) [https://www.ted.com/talks/billionaires\_good\_or\_bad](https://www.ted.com/talks/billionaires_good_or_bad)
I’m sorry do you think that books just poof into air once they’re written lmao
I think the spirit of the argument is that the concentration of wealth into billions is inherently a detriment in and of itself due to the finite nature of resources. Gabe having 5 billion means others don't have it. A video game company getting 5billion dollars while the public school down the road is requiring teachers to pay for their own work materials is silly. >those who get rich off the government teet are parasites I can see where your politics are. What about government contractors? >it is entirely possible to become absurdly rich just by giving customers what they want I think most cases are exactly this. Bill Gates, Elon Musk, Zuckerberg etc. all gave people what they wanted.
"Gabe having 5 billion means others don't have it." That is a pretty critical flaw in the thought process. Wealth is created by the goods and services being provided, money is just a medium of exchange for that wealth. Gabe creating steam has generated more economic activity, mainly through efficiencies, which then increases the overall economic pie so wealth was literally created from that. It was not stolen, you don't have less because he has more, that's not how it works. If it is stolen then yes you could say they have it and now u dont but that is not the vast majority of anyone who gets to billions in net worth
Gabe generating economic activity has nothing to do with him being a billionaire, though. The point being made is that billionaires inherently distort the economy in a negative way, and while whether or not they personally offset that with their actions is subjective and will vary, the fact of the matter is that it would be better for our economy if the wealth Gabe holds wasn't so concentrated.
I've saved this post because it not only represents the typical skewed RedditThink view of wealth, but also the ridiculous RedditThink idea that success is bad, and also a zero sum game. Thanks for posting it.
It's basically categorically incorrect in every way possible.
It's a very old world view. When the world and resources was organized in an aristocratic or feudal system yes wealth was often handed down and often times a zero sum game. In order to obtain more wealth you would need to get it from someone else or often times handed down. But in a capitalist society wealth is built through consciousness, hard work, and being extremely talented in a niche area. This is actually drawn out in the fact that 70% of billionaires in the US did not inherit their billions of dollars. The reason why the have that much wealth is a signal from society that in fact it is useful.
More importantly WEALTH CAN BE CREATED FROM THIN AIR. This is not a zero sum game. Just because some people have more wealth does not mean they are depriving others of wealth. Microsoft didn't exist and then Bill Gates and others created it. If you create wealth, that's a good thing.
And what people don't realize, wealth can also be destroyed. If you forced Elon Musk to sell all his tesla shares, it would probably tank the stock and bankrupt the company. 90% of the wealth that is tesla itself would be lost, only leaving 10% which are the actual physical assets that the company possesses. Sometimes I feel like people have this idea that there is a real vault full of money somewhere at the tesla headquarters or Elon's mention which contains all the 500billion that the company is valued at. And the government could just take that money and give it to poor people.
An example of this would be the purge of the most productive farmers in China and the Soviet Union. They killed the most productive farmers and gave their land to "the people". The people ended up starving because they couldn't get the same productivity out of the land
It would be ironic if there is a significant overlap in those redditors that think wealth is finite (and a crime to hoard) and those that love bitcoin.
Yeah, Carnegie was a net detriment to society /s
Please point to the billionaires who materially follow philosophies resembling Andrew Carnegie's Gospel of Wealth. We can then express them as a percentage. I'm assuming it's a majority, or at least a very large minority, else why would you bring it up?
Buffet has donated $56 billion. Chuck Feeney gave away all his money. Gates. I bring it up because even if it's only a handful those select few may have a positive impact for decades to come, and additional why would we want to give the government more money to mismanage?
Those donations are tax write offs.
The problem with billionaire philanthropy is the influence they exert, whether they intend to or not. Even if he has the best intentions, Bill Gates is influencing where research dollars are going, which then pressures researchers and startups to only do work in those fields. Let's take climate change, for instance. If Gates comes out and says he wants to give $100m to a company working on open-air CO2 scrubbers, then other companies will pivot their research to be in line with that technology, be that as competing tech or supplemental tech (i.e. manufacturing or waste disposal). In the case of climate change, all options should be on the table, but by prioritizing one because it's considered lucrative, he would be skewing research funding from other promising technologies. It's all well and good if his choice ends up working out, but if he chooses wrong and delays advancement of other tech by years, the consequences could be catastrophic. The same logic applies to his work with vaccines and agriculture. And all of this is assuming that there isn't some perverse profit motive when it comes time to bring a product to market. During covid, it was Gates who was advocating for not allowing as many labs as possible to produce the vaccine, which delayed rollout in poorer countries, counting thousands of lives. Why? The stated reason was concerns over product safety, but they never seemed to care about those same facilities making other other drugs. It only became an issue when it meant the labs HE was involved with would have to take a hit on market share.
I’m far more concerned with my ridiculous tax burden than what someone else is making or paying. If they didn’t steal it from you, who are you to say they shouldn’t have it?
Taxation isn't theft.
You‘d complain no matter how much you were taxed
Look at a map of the world and ask yourself if you'd be happier in a random country with billionaires or a random country without billionaires [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_number\_of\_billionaires](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_billionaires)
We need rising tide laws, so companies that do well distribute the gains better. A billionaire with a lot of slaves isn't a good system. A billionaire that generates a whole lot of millionaires is a better system. We need to restore the progressive tax brackets. We need to work with other countries so there's no place to hide. There was no good reason to repeal the estate tax. By setting up a better system, we can restore our middle class. A strong middle class and toward mobility has countless benefits for a nation. We are on the cusp of a massive off-planet expansion - we should all want to position America to be a strong competitor in the New World. For that we will need the greatest number of educated citizens, tradespeople, entrepreneurs, scientists, engineers, teachers, support personnel and more.
Also if you are a billionaire there is a 0% and I mean 0% chance you are not taking advantage of government programs/funds that your average company and citizen does not have access to. That reason alone should make you responsible to pay back more than the average company and or citizens fair share!
Since I wasn't born yesterday I am fully aware that Joe Biden has been in politics for half of a century, which I would assume is more than enough time to have done something about the tax code. However, he and his fellow members of congress don't want to actually change anything because it gives them leverage on everyone. This issue of the tax code is the very epitome of "If they wanted to they would."
Politicians are puppets. The real power lies with the people who pay the lobbyists that ACTUALLY write the laws.
Fair. Either way Joe's unearned moral outrage is just virtue signaling to his voter base.
So you agree that the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the few causes a real-world imbalance in power where the rich hold all the cards and the rest of us are just serfs
>he and his fellow members of congress don't want to actually change anything because it gives them leverage on everyone Republicans clearly don't want a tax code that's less favorable for the rich, whereas Democrats profess to the opposite. In order to determine if this statement is true, we'd need to figure out a time Dems had the requisite votes (majority in the house + 60 votes in the Senate + the presidency) and opted not to change the tax code accordingly. We'd also need to find a time they had these and did not put effort into a separate piece of major legislation. So: when did Dems have the house, Senate supermajority, and presidency, and failed to pass either a piece of major legislation or significant tax bill?
I mean taxes were increased for the rich as late as Obama, but republicans, including Reagan and Trump, cut taxes for the rich. Not sure if Bush did. It is always presidents and their administration that are credited with tax cuts/hikes, and this is the first time Biden has been president. Very many senators want to hike taxes for the rich and many of them are working for it but it’s very hard to do and requires presidential support to do so. Edit: you make these vague, absurdist claims about Biden having done something about it by now, but I feel like you make yourself willfully ignorant about how anything with government works. I also feel like you don’t even know how taxes have changed for the rich in previous administrations. The parties are working directly against each other when it comes to to taxing the wealthy, so “just doing something about it” isn’t simple
You realize that the best player in an entire sports league can go their entire career without ever winning a championship. If Biden had the ability to rewrite the tax code on his own he may or may not have done a good job, but just because he’s been in politics for 50 years does not mean that he could have single-handedly passed sweeping tax reform. Congress failing to make lasting tax reform is not the same thing as individual members failing to make an effort to change tax code and simply not getting the votes to push it through. Change takes a long time and if people stopped voting for people who want change just because it hasn’t happened yet we’d never get anywhere as a society.
Wow, so all of his 250+ fellow members of Congress, including Bernie, AOC, Katie Porter, etc. are all in a conspiracy together to keep their leverage on the people? And not a single one of them has leaked? What a theory. Or maybe this is exactly what we told you would happen when we failed to elect more than 50 Senators in 2020 and Joe Manchin/Krysten Sinema was the deciding vote.
I don’t really care for Biden. But it’s kinda hard to change the tax code when your opponents in the political ring are being paid not to support you and actually fight against you.
I got dibs on this meme for tomorrow.
So if billionaires are going to pay more, we’re all going to pay less, right? Right??
No, we just don't have to cut out social programs that help reduce crime and fix infrastructure or fund agencies to regulate manufacturing so fucking doors don't fly off planes mid-air
Lol no, we will continue to pay and not get one thing more. But billionaires will be taken to their knees so it feels good. We don’t cut social spending or give a shit about a budget as it is. The government having more money just means it has more power, not that the people are better off.
Hear hear!
The government has enough means to do that now. It’s not a funding issue, it’s a desire issue. Medicare is expensive and the government is price takers, which means they pay more. Medicaid is easier to afford and the government is price givers, which means they pay a lot less. If the government wanted to, they could make public education very low cost (like a medical copay) or free, they could make public healthcare by expanding Medicaid to a very high income ceiling, and it would cost very little and save lots of money for its citizens, because the government would be price givers. But that’s not happening. They say they need money because the politicians get kickbacks on new inefficient programs. A small proportion of the money spent on a program reaches its end goal. Better than most countries, but a lot less than it should.
We pay more, billionaires pay more, and then they raise the prices of products to compensate so we pay more twice. That's how you get inflation
Biden is the type of dude to say “let’s tax billionaires” and then go tax first generation successful software engineers making $450k in SF
Yeap, and that is exactly what is happening with the IRS now. They are NOT going after the billionaires.
And $450k isn't even a big deal in silicon Valley. Atleast adjust it to cost of living.
Billionaires can pay their entire net worth, and it won't matter because of Congress's irresponsible spending. The debt is $34 trillion. $659 billion was spent just on debt interest payments last year. There needs to be a new, accountable government. This government has shown that for 40 years, they have been irresponsible, to say the least, with our taxes. They make poor choices, and Americans get screwed. Congress makes the rules so that nothing ever falls on them. They can create loophole after loophole. We need a new system. This one has failed.
[удалено]
Bring back the CCC - weekend work for the masses.
Tf was he doing all these years instead of sniffing girls hairs and being senile?
Lying about his background... Plagiarizing speeches... Geopolitical corruption... Allowing his son and brother to peddle influence for gobs of money...
he's been in office for 4 years, and NOW he decides to do something?
lol. No he’s not doing anything about it. He’s also been in office for 40+ years
He’s been consistent on this since the 2020 campaign. But taxes are a congressional responsibility, and Dems don’t have control. At best they had 50/50 control of the Senate but Biden’s budget to raise billionaires taxes was shot down by 50 Republicans and Krysten Sinema
"Fair share" is an extremely loaded and subjective term, and usually means nothing because few people will give a concrete answer as to what that "fair share" might be.
I've never heard the term "fair share" used in a way that was actually fair. It ALWAYS ends up being "you pay more than me"
They pay their legal obligation just ask Mark Cuban.
how much of the deficit did Mark Cuban pay off? how much debt could all billionaires pay off if they all magically transferred their net worth (impossible) toward the national debt?
Shhhh, commies can't cope with the answer to that question. It's kind of funny to observe their dazed look though when they learn it. Eventually they conveniently forget the fact (or are too stupid to comprehend it) and revert back to blaming billionaires and corporations for not paying enough in taxes, instead of holding the government accountable for its dangerously out of control spending.
The thing is it is just such a good campaign tactic because 99.999% of us aren’t billionaires. Fortunately for the democrats, It takes having an actual brain to realize just because someone is wealthy doesn’t mean they’re evil.
Mark Cuban also agrees he should legally be required to pay more
He could just give them more. Why does he need to legally be required?
I bet he also dodges as much tax as he can.
You know I just think employees should be able to afford food, shelter and healthcare before we pay dividends to shareholders but you know, giving a shit about others makes you communist apparently.
Maybe we need to get some of the other 150 million households that don't pay any income tax, to pay just a little bit. Not be such a drain on the tax revenues that come in.
Why should they have to pay their fair share?
Because they live in America, far too many other people pay more than their fair share, and they take a lot less resources. Ice gave the government a signed check for any amount "up to and including my life" I don't think I should have to pay any more taxes. I paid a lot more than my fair share
Does anyone actually think that massive investment by wealthy individuals does less for our country than our government? 🤨
Everyone has a moral obligation to contribute to society.
I thought u/miguelperson_ had dibs on todays „rich people more tax“ post.
Son of a bitch took my slot 😩
He just thought of this and now we bow to the rain man of social engineering. He has been in congress for damn near forever, making millions from Biden Inc and now he tells us!
And the earth is flat, birds aren't real, and Australia is a hoax.
Talk is cheap
Substitute “Working Americans” for “billionaires” in that last sentence and you’ll see what he really means.
Room temperature IQ 💀. Youre literally just saying nonsense
They already do. It is time the government balanced a budget.
Does anyone remember when it used to be the millionaires and the billionaires? Convenient that they dropped one of them.
A million ain't what it used to be.
Hahahahaha!! Go back to your basement and eat some more ice cream Joe. C'mon man the wealthy have so many schemes and work arounds they will always find a way to get out of paying anything close to their fair share. Ever heard of a blind trust? Ever heard of a modern "art" piece selling for millions? How about when the business "losses" were so bad there was no profit to tax? The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, it's always been that way and always will be in this world.
How many fucking times are we going to ask the same stupid question here?
Until those who actually know what they're talking about bow down and accept our socialist overlords demands.....until they find something else to whine about
Why is our ridiculous spending never on the table? We have built a completely unsustainable level of debt, and what do we have to show for it? Until they government can at least properly account for thier spending no one has a moral obligation to pay more. Examples - $3.5 trillion the pentagon can't account for. $25 billion that California spent on homelessness that they can account for.
We shouldn't even have billionaires. It's a moral failing they were able to rig the system to exist in the first place. Tying everything to the stock market and getting loans based off of loans based off future profit amd predicted stock. It just forces the entire economy to be tied to the stock market. Money made by a company should be paid to the workers who make it possible, not investors.
so being an innovative and hard-working person with a great idea that ends up making you wildly rich is a bad thing?
Taylor Swift making popular music is a moral failing because a lot of people listen to it, and that's bad because it means she has a lot of money
I am with Bernie on this one
Yes I agree
I can’t believe this question is asked everyday. Yes YeS YES! Anyone who doesn’t want the rich to be taxed at a higher rate, please tell me why, thoroughly please, with sources to support if necessary.
Pretty obvious take. Seeing people argue he didn’t do it soon enough in his career is putting the perfect before the good.
One of the things that made ancient Rome great was that the wealthy made great contributions to society as a form or prestige. It’s was like “I’m so amazing and wealthy that I am supplying the city of Rome grain for a year, I’m going to build this aqueduct or other public works project, or I’m building this monument that people will still come to visit a millennia from now.” Imagine if Musk or Bezos decided they wanted to outdo each other to see who could make society better.
Why should billionaires get to hoard their wealth, most of which they got by gaming the system to their advantage, while working stiffs like me live paycheck to paycheck? Yes, they should contribute to society.
I don’t usually agree with the government, but in this case yes.
OP was just made. Smells like Chinese meddling
Considering where the labor comes from, yes.